SCA-as-family-msg – 7/10/05


Sometimes the SCA is like family.


NOTE: See also the files: SCA-reasons-msg, SCA-The-Dream-msg, SCA-gays-msg,  magic-moments-msg, SCA-stories2-msg, SCA-hist2-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at:


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at




From: moore at (Michael Moore/Peregrine the Illuminator)

Subject: Re: Death of Sir Angus Ulrych, Nordskogen

Organization: Baronial Colleges of Nordleigh, SCA

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 13:38:08 GMT


In article <1993Jul04.160313.1040 at edsi.plexus.COM> grimmund at edsi.plexus.COM (Grimmund Blackwing) writes:


>Well Met, all.

>     Ill news on the Rialto.  I just got a call from one of the local

>Windhaveners who went to the Nordskogen Warlord Tourney.  

>     Sir Angus recently (Thursday?) suffered a brain annurism, and

>died Saturday.  He will be greatly missed.

>     I regret that I didn't know him well enogh to be able to tell

>the rest of you more about him.  He was a fine man, always willing  

>to help others.  


>     Grimmund Blackwing, Windhaven,

>Crown Principality of the Northshield, Middle Kingdom

>Usenet:  grimmund at  


I was at Warlord.  We found out over cellular telephone at Noon Saturday.

The torrential downpour fit our mood exactly.

I hear the wake was long and well-attended.  Due to the tornado watches,

many of us chose to seek shelter.


The raffle/auction at the event raised $500 for Sue, (Ishebail is how

her name is pronounced in the SCA) his wife of three weeks.  All those

wishing to be in the Northshield Encampment at Pennsic should contact Lady

Kira, Lord Saeric Scirham's wife (anyone have a mundane address), who is

also handling the donations for Sue.


Pardon my ramblings, but I think some people might want to know.


He was an example and a friend to us all.  Sunday morning, Aramanthra held

a waffle breakfast in his honor (his tradition of many years), but no

syrup or other stuff was added: after all, no one can top Angus.


At the Northshield Fighting and Feasting Forum in Finis Terrae (and the

Principality formation), his home group asked "that Angus Ulrich be

elevated to the status of God... or at least a minor Deity...".  Since

Church and State are separate in this land, King Finn was unable to comply,

and instead brought him into the order of the Dragons' tooth.  His

willingness to help and his drive to serve are unmatched.


Requiescat in pacem, Angus.




From: mwolfe at (Menya Wolfe)

Subject: Re: Death of Sir Angus Ulrych, Nordskogen

Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 16:32:09 GMT


In article <1993Jul04.160313.1040 at edsi.plexus.COM> grimmund at edsi.plexus.COM (Grimmund Blackwing) writes:


>Well Met, all.

>     Ill news on the Rialto.  I just got a call from one of the local

>Windhaveners who went to the Nordskogen Warlord Tourney.  

>     Sir Angus recently (Thursday?) suffered a brain annurism, and

>died Saturday.  He will be greatly missed.

>     I regret that I didn't know him well enogh to be abble to tell

>the rest of you more about him.  He was a fine man, always willing  

>to help others.  


>     Grimmund Blackwing, Windhaven,

>Crown Principality of the Northshield, Middle Kingdom

>Usenet:  grimmund at  


I knew Angus slightly, and he was a good person and a worthy knight.

We met when Cariadoc asked me to be his dinner companion at a Grey

Gargoyles feast after he won the tournament, and we remained friends

through his knighthood, my laureling, and his engagement. I will

really miss seeing him at Pennsic, full of hugs and good cheer.






From: caa at (Charles Anderson)

Subject: Re: Death of Sir Angus Ulrych, Nordskogen

Organization: University of Minnesota

Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 15:25:56 GMT


In article <1993Jul5.133808.11369 at> moore at (Michael Moore/Peregrine the Illuminator) writes:

|In article <1993Jul04.160313.1040 at edsi.plexus.COM> grimmund at edsi.plexus.COM (Grimmund Blackwing) writes:


|>Well Met, all.

|>    Ill news on the Rialto.  I just got a call from one of the local

|>Windhaveners who went to the Nordskogen Warlord Tourney.  

|>    Sir Angus recently (Thursday?) suffered a brain annurism, and

|>died Saturday.  He will be greatly missed.

The anuerism was a prexisting condition that was not known about, high

blood pressure, and the stress of closing on a house (which did not get

done, the well did not test out, it was to retested and closed on today.)

probably caused it to burst, causing a massive stroke, in the left frontal

lobe.  He never regained consciousness.


|The raffle/auction at the event raised $500 for Sue, (Ishebail is how

|her name is pronounced in the SCA) his wife of three weeks.

I attended Angus and Iseabails wedding.  He was a very happy man when he

died.  The last count was over $800.


We built a very large bonfire in Angus's memory, he loved making BIG fires.

We danced and drank, and told stories of Agnus until the wee hours in the

morning.  You had to love a man whose favorite penalty to dish out was

"Drink a beer".


-Dmitri (who writes this with a tear in his eye as he will greatly miss

       a man he called a good friend.)


  /-Charles-Anderson-\  | caa at                            TIP#068

  \------------------/  | Com Squared Systems,         voice (612) 452-9522

Vidi Vici Veni - I Saw, | 1285 Corporate Center Drive   fax  (612) 452-3607

  I Conquered, I Came   | Suite 170 | Eagan,  MN 55121  (I speak for myself)




From: tbarnes at (thomas wrentmore barnes)

Subject: Re: handicapped

Organization: Indiana University

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 23:58:02 GMT


In article <1993Aug30.225125.10239 at> mchance at (Michael Chance) writes:

>Tibor wrote:


>>Dennis O'Connor wrote:

>>  If you've been told "don't ever strain yourself", don't go to an SCA war.


>>I've been told that all the time, Dennis.  Usually by friends, but

>>occasionally by my doctor.  Had a great time at Pennsic anyway

>>(including water-bearing in the Woods: carried three gallons of water

>>there by foot, ran around for two hours, and walked home.)


>But Tibor, that can all be explained by the impromptu "Stations of the

>Cross" that you, me, and Lothar did after the St. Michael's Passage on

>Wednsday.  Your miracle was no heart attack; mine was surviving the

>Field battle (fighting with Moonwulf's Rangers, who were supposed to

>occupy the entire left half of the Eastern army, wearing borrowed

>minimal Ansteorran armor and a big war heater shield) with only a

>banged up wrist.


>So, Lothar, what's your miracle?


      Either A) I didn't get one because I made jokes about it, or B)

Coming home from Pennsic NOT sunburned, not burnt out, and with money in

my pockets. Or it could have been the fact that I didn't get lost once

on the way home (not even in Youngstown which usually confuses the Hell

out of me). This was offset by the fact that the alternator on my car

died outside of Dayton, in Godforsaken Nowhere Ohio on a Sunday night

with classes starting the next day. On the other hand, maybe the miracle

was that I had friends who were willing to drive 3 hours in the middle

of the night to rescue me, my lady, and our goods, then drive 3 hours

back to Bloomington Indiana.

      I'm not sure.                       


      Lothar \|/




From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)


Subject: Royalty

Date: 2 Feb 1994 13:45:20 -0500

Organization: The Internet


Dennis writes:


]It's just a shame that our Kings and Queen will have to spend time on this

]issue (membership and ths BoD) instead of enjoying the War as they deserve to.


Certainly they deserve to enjoy the War, for by their dedication, unstinting

service, and extravagant expenditure, they make all possible for the rest of

us. Unfortunately, this is generally at the cost of enjoying the event

themselves, whatever the issues of the day. It simply goes with the job.


I have seen the Crown Prince of Meridies (I believe; this was at Pennsic years

ago) hurry with the rest of the guests from a party for the Royalty of the

Known World, because a storm was coming and he wanted to be sure that all his

people were well. I saw him later, in all his finery and having laid aside only

his Coronet, walking through the ensuing downpour. Soaked through, his clothes

ruined, he walked as if there were no rain, as only a man who long before had

been saturated may do. Still, he continued to check on the well being of his

people. It was the most noble thing I have ever seen in my time in this



At other times, I have seen Royalty hurrying through the night, while all else

were at parties, to find Ministers and try to avert a crisis. I literally seen

people drop from exhaustion in front of me. It is indeed a shame that they will

not be able to spend more time enjoying this event. It is simply my observation

that they rarely able to do so. We can only express our gratitude and, by such

service as we may give, lighten the burden somewhat.




From: MCNUTT at (Bill McNutt)

Subject: Re: Orphans and the SCA!?

Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education

Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 20:34:56 GMT


Warning!  The attached post contains and Original Thought. Exposure to an

Original Thought can lead to Critical Thinking.  If you have not signed the

new new waiver or filed a consent form, please be aware that you read here at

your own risk.


In article <bubba.770840810 at> bubba at (U.J|rgen

hman) writes:>In <1994Jun1.041639.1 at> nsmca at



>>Question, strange that it may be, please forgive..

>>Is their any cases of SCA Orphans? Namely children of SCA members whose parents

>>have passed beyond to the Torney in the Sky (or other place of choice?) and

>>left their children behind as orphans, and how does the SCA handle it?


>But as everybody says, _we're_famous_but_not_a_cult_... so I guess the state

>has to deal with orphans and such things.


Actually, while we may not be a cult, we are a community.


(Hang on folks.  Most of you have seen this before, but it's the only original

thought I've had in 20 years.  Blame television.  Anyway, I think it makes

sense, and I'm proud of it.)


This really only applies to the American SCA, but by and large, we are a

mobile society.  One of the reasons why and SCA generation is reputed to be so

short is that so many of us move away.  Man, by nature, is a pack/tribal

animal, who only thrives within a community.  Now, a intelligent people, we

can make do and get by surrounded by strangers, but most of us are not happy

alone.  And a small family group isn't enough to provide that.  With the

increase in geographic mobility, the old-fashioned neighborhood and small down

break up, and people begin to look elsewhere for a community to be a part of.  


For many people, the SCA is that community.  There they find friendship,

companionship, and a sense of belonging.  In my 10+ years as a Scadian, I have

seen marriages, divorces, "barn-raisings," and house-warmings.  I have sat

with household members through childbirth, and I have set an empty place at

feast in remembrance as well.


Last boarder raids I bought a raffle ticket to help a shire raise a college

fund for two member's children who had been orphaned in a traffic accident.  

I've seen children fostered and criminals cast out.


To answer the original question, the SCA, Inc does not address the social

needs of the membership at large, and should not.  (If it did, we'd need

another waiver, eh?)  But the membership, more and more, is acting as a social

support web for each other.  Whether orphans are addressed depends entirely on

the local group.  Most groups have yet to need to address tragedy at that

level of magnitude.


This is also why, IMHO, people get so bent about precedence, banners, and

circlets.  This issue isn't really who gets to wear what circlet, or carry

what banner, but what are the rules and mores of our society, and who gets to

define them.


I am not a sociologist, and I don't play one on TV.  Not available in some

stores.  Don't try this at home. Your miliage may vary.



From: locksley at (Joe Bethancourt)


Subject: Re: Hall Of Memories of the Fallen?

Date: 18 Aug 1994 06:31:13 GMT

Organization: Internet Direct, Inc.


nsmca at wrote:

: Does the SCA/Society have a hall of memories, a place for the names, and

: devices of the fallen (true death, not SCA death) can be displayed, stored,

: and recorded?


: Kenit McGregor, Haus Leibenstern Prester/Archivist.


Actually, I dare say that most Kingdoms' Orders of Precedence have a little

listing (ours does) after the name ..... something like


Dale the Small, KSCA (dscd)


Though nothing can match the story of the Queen of Atenveldt who died in

a car wreck......and -all- the roses available in her home state of Utah

were at the funeral. Roses had to be shipped in from neighboring states.

You literally could not see the chapel for the roses.


"There were no Roses in Artemesia."


locksley at           PO Box 35190       Locksley Plot Systems

White Tree Productions      Phoenix, AZ 85069 USA         CyberMongol Ltd



From: locksley at (Joe Bethancourt)


Subject: Re: Legends can get out of hand

Date: 22 Aug 1994 15:44:37 GMT

Organization: Internet Direct, Inc.


Dorothy J Heydt (djheydt at wrote:

: (Hal posting from Dorothy's account...)

: In article <940820074935.b975 at>,

:  <NSRIZ9923 at alpha.nsula.EDU> wrote:

: >sombody better than you out there. That most of the SCA urban legends may

: >have a shreed of truth in them, the real incident probably is a lot smaller

: >than how it is told. our fighting abilities give us several advantages in

: >the real world but often they fail to help us get out of true tight situations.

: >Especially those situations where it is not worth our lives to defend.


: As Kingdom Constable, I have always advised those in my Office

: that if they think they need weapons to handle a Situation, call

: a cop.


There has been much discussion about it....and the general opinion seems

to be that the SCA folks tend to "be heroes." It has happened before, and

it will happen again, as witness many of our Urban Legends.


Unfortunately, Conn ran into the kind of Mad Dog that you discuss leter

in your post. I'll be posting another news article on the killing in a

couple of days that sheds a gret deal of light on the incident.


: Second, there is what I call the "Mad Dog" reason.  If the guilty

: party is just too dangerous (or too crazy) to ever risk letting

: loose it can be seen a a mercy killing--for both the person

: executed and for society as a whole.


All indications are that the person who actually wielded the knife is

the Mad Dog type. I am told that the County Attny. is seeking murder one

on all four, tho this is second-hand info.


Gentles.....please....let us all take this as a lesson.


The funeral was held yesterday, in Tucson, and his mother and family were

astounded at the number of SCA people that attended. We filled, and

overflowed, the chapel....and his family was amazed at the different

kinds of people there, from wealthy to poverty-stricken students, from

rocknrollies to ministers.


Perhaps the most emotional moment of the service was when Duchess Larissa

announced that she and her husband, Count Elric ap Moray, are naming their

unborn child after their friend, Conn.


locksley at           PO Box 35190       Locksley Plot Systems

White Tree Productions      Phoenix, AZ 85069 USA         CyberMongol Ltd



From: spydrec at (SpydreC)


Subject: Re: YKYITSCAW

Date: 10 Apr 1995 14:23:16 -0400

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)


Off subject just a little but...


>Now  I know I'm in SCA-- the other day, while traveling home from

>work on the freeway, I observed someone in process of removing the

>spare tire from their GM four door sedan trunk.  The floor piece>

was removed and leaning against the car- its shape roughly two sides

>perpendicular to one edge, the lower edge a semi-circle.  And my

>first thought was "Why would anyone put a 6 inch diameter hole in the

>middle of their shield?"


    >Shlomo Korobeinik

   > Russian Caravan Trad


After Estrella this year, a number of Westies had problems when coming

home.  I know that at least two folks, upon having car trouble, immediately

put out their sheilds behind the car.  Within 30 minutes both had been

assisted by fellow Scadians.  Others I know of who also had car trouble,

but did not put out a sheild, device etc. were in for much longer delays.




"You know you've been in the SCA to long when"

You always put out your shield, helm, device etc whenever you break down.

Even when driving to work.

Of course its a bad sign when you have your armor in the car in the first

place (anyone wanna go a few rounds at lunch? :>).


Joel Connors                  |  Teirnion Shadowmist

joel_connors at       |  Principality of the Mists                  

San Francisco, CA             |  Kingdom of the West



From: UDSD007 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike.Andrews)


Subject: Re:  Ansteorra suffers major loss

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:28

Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)


To all Nobles, Peers, and Gentles to whom these presents may come,




I have the honor to acquaint you that, following a funeral Mass

at St. Philip Neri Church, Midwest City, Oklahoma, the body of

H. E. Caitlin Anna ni Seanain (mka Kathleen Anna Young Lister)

was laid to rest in St. Joseph's Catholic Cemetery, Norman,

Oklahoma, which is on the grounds of the Odd Fellows' Cemetery.

A vigil and prayer service had been held the previous night at

the same church.


The church was full: all seats were occupied, and some attendees

were obliged to stand through the service. To my personal

knowledge, folk came from all over Ansteorra to do honor to

Baroness Caitlin and to Baron Pepin; in addition some folk came

from as far away as central Tennessee and Kansas City, Missouri.


All was done with due and proper ceremony. Baron Pepin, as a

parting salute to his lady, summoned forth his herald, who led

the populace assembled in three rousing cheers of "Vivat!".

Then we all filed by the grave to place flowers on the casket,

which had been lowered to its final position.


The officiating priest and Baroness Caitlin's parents were

completely astonished at the number of people attending, and at

the distances which many of them had travelled. We who knew her

and loved her were in no way astonished.


Baron Pepin will need a great deal of support and love in the

next several months.


Pray, I beseech you all, for the repose of the soul of

         Baroness Caitlin Anna ni Seanain

       (m.k.a. Katherine Anna Young Lister),

      and for peace and healing for her husband,

             Baron Pepin de Moroni

             (m.k.a. Danny Lister)


udsd007 at

Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews) Namron, Ansteorra



Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996

From: horton at (Patricia Horton)

To: ansteorra at

Subject: Baron Subodai's Funeral


I have received many phone calls asking about arrangements for Baron Subodai's

funeral. Thanks to Sir Barn's lady Kat, I have the following information:


Funeral will be 1pm on Saturday

Smith-Kernke Funeral Home

1401 NW 23rd St

OKC, OK 73106


This is also the address you should send flowers to. Visitation is this

evening and tomorrow. Arafel has requested that those coming please wear

garb. Most of their friends were SCA and she wants the service to befit

a Baron.


There will be a charity for donations. Nothing definite has been decided yet.

As soon as I know I will post the information here.


My respects and prayers go to Baroness Arafel and the Northern Region who

have experienced yet another tragic loss.





From: Bonny Franklin <bfrankli at>


Subject: Condolance gifts for Sir Sebastian

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:08:09 -0700

Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated


Greetings My Lords and Ladies-


I have been receiving many calls regarding where flowers can be sent,

Sebastian's parents have requested that in lieu of flowers, doantions

be sent to the Land Fund or to the Barony of Darkwood, givers choice.

If you have any questions regarding this, please feel free to email me

at BonnyJ at


In Service to the Dream and the Memeory of Sir Sebastian


Aletheia de la Mer Argentee



From: Father Gregory <apospirit at>


Subject: Really Cool YKYITSCAW that happened in Meridies

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:01:30 -0400


My mother's car was in the shop so she drove mine.  The tire went flat.

As she was stuck on the interstate a group of young men in Fraternity

shirts stop.  One of them says, "Milady, can we be of service"  My

mother was uneasy.  Then one of the young gentlemen explained that they

were in the SCA and had seen the sticker on my car.  They changed the

tire and made certain that all was well.


I guess the YKYITSCAW is

.....Strangers treat you like family, when they see a sticker on your



Catherine  (using a borrowed email account)



Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:10:49 -0500

From: Malgar Thorvik <sds4168 at>

To: sca-arts at

Subject: I`m back


Dear friends of Calontir...

        My wife, child, and I wish to thank all of you that offered your

assistance in our time of need.  A house fire can really ruin your summer.

I hope that I didnt offend the many people whose offers I refused.  Our

mundane friends and family helped a bunch.  But they could not compare to

our SCA friends and Family.   We love you all.  We are still fighting our

insurance people but with the help of a lawyer, we will be allright.


Ld Malgar Thorvik

Annyawna Thorvik

and da baby

Ld Malgar Thorvik

Brass forging, Venitian and Glass bead maker, leather


Cogitatio Viva Est

The Dream is Alive



From: cian at (Gregory R. Gagnon)

To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

Subject: ANST - Qatar Bound - NOT

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:53:20 -0500


Thanks to all of you who offered their sympathies and best wishes on my

impending departure for Qatar.  Some concerned folks in the Barony (Stargate)

found me a position to keep me at home, close to hearth, kith, and kin.  Thanks

again to all of you, I look forward to seeing you often and:






Viscount Cian Conor MacQuaid, KSCA



Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 16:44:34

From: Ernie Husted

To: sca-middle at

Subject: [Mid] In Memory Of Jafar


My wife and I have just returned from Jafar's funeral.  I had wanted to

share some of the feelings, observations and thoughts I had.  I hope this

helps those who could not attend to feel like they were a part of this day.


*  We arrived at the funeral home at 9:35 a.m. and the parking lot was

already about filled.  Soon the lot and side street were packed with cars.


*  The downstairs lobby of the funeral home had standing room only with

people lined up in the doorway unable to enter.  A large group of people

were outside.


*  This may have been one of the largest gatherings of Middle Kingdom folks

in mundane clothing in history.


*  It is hard to recognize some of the S.C.A. folks in suits and mundane

clothing.  The trick was to just look at their face to realize where you

had seen them.


*  The ceremony was held downstairs with the Society folk all going

upstairs.  Upstairs there was one large room with a smaller room off to the

left.  There were 200 people seated in the chairs with about 40 standing.

The smaller side room had 30 or so.


*  The sound system that was transferring upstairs what was going on during

the service was very poor.  There was only a single speaker in the ceiling.

Some of the loud background hum stopped when some of the overhead lights

were turned off.


*  For such a large group of people, you could have heard a pin drop as

everyone strained to listen.  Some of the service was heard while some was

lost.  Everyone in the room was there for a single purpose.


: *  Late in the service, another speaker was added to the room, which


: some.  It was a nice speaker but the room was very large.


: *  The room become very warm until the air conditioning was turned on.

: This new noise level didn't help.  Folks with normal hearing may have


: more than me.


: *  There were so many cars going to the grave site that they ran out of


: purple funeral flags you put on your car.


: *  The drive to the grave site seemed much longer due to the amount of


: in the procession.  Along the way folks stopped on the street or looked


: from their house at the procession.  The line of cars went from as far as

: you could see in front all the way out of sight in the back.



: *  The traffic escort did a fine job trying to make sure the drive there

: was as safe as possible.


: *  I asked one of the traffic escort how many cars were in the procession.

: He told me 110 plus.  They had been expecting 60 to 80.


: *  At the grave site the family was in a tent while the Society folks

: formed up in a half moon in front.  The Society folks waited quietly

: outside the tent until the family had said there last good-byes.  Then the

: Society folks slowly, quietly and reverantly passed by and said their last

: farewells.  There were flowers given out and folks laid them on the



: *  The cemetery was smaller and very old.  It had a small river/stream

: bordering the one side.  It was a beautiful site.


: *  The day was overcast but not to cold.  When the service was over and

: folks were walking back to their cars the sun broke through and shone


: It seemed appropriate.


: *  I saw all the qualities that I love about the S.C.A. in practice today.

: Everyone was helpful, courteous and caring.  There was a mix of peers and

: older members as well as newer folks.


: *  Jafar's family treated the S.C.A. as part of his extended family.  I


: one of his family come up and just talk with me and express the family's

: gratitude for all the Society had done.


: *  The folks at the funeral home did a great job handling perhaps one of

: the largest groups of people they had ever had.


: *  The handout at the funeral (I started to say flyer) had a picture of

: Jafar taken in 1986.  He pretty much looked the same now as he did then.

: The smile and twinkle in his eyes was there.


: *  I served Jafar when he was the Earl Marshal as well as King.  I will

: miss him very much.  I am glad I was able to go to the funeral and say my

: good-bye.  Now I, along with the rest of the Kingdom, must figure out how

: to best serve Kenna.


: Erik Erikson the Scout          Potius Feodari Quam Morti

:                                 "Better Dirty Than Dead"



Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 18:35:53

From: Beverly Roden

To: bwintermute at

Subject: [Fwd: [Ermine] In Memory Of Jafar]


Greetings from Alexis


Ernie sums up much of what happened at the funeral home - what he missed

was that the Knights did not break Jafar's chain - they formed a human

chain of Chivalry (there were about 20 at the graveside services, and

around 30 attended the services, both Friday's visitation and today's

funeral).  Duke Dagan spoke of the loss of their brother knight, and

stated that they, as The Chivalry, must now step up their efforts on His

Behalf.  Others spoke a word or two, then Palymar broke the human

chain.  Then Sir Pieter van Doorn said he had the priviledge of swearing

fealty to His Highness Jafar at the hospital, and suggested this would

be an appropriate time for them to re-affirm their Oath of Fealty to Her

Highness, Kenna.  Which they proceeded to do - they all knelt in the

grass and recited their oath. (lead by His Majesty, Palymar)  Kenna

began sobbing as they began speaking, and was held up by Mistress Ghita

and Lady Lorelei (who is Kenna's apprentice sister to Catherine de la

Rose).  Many who were standing nearby that witnessed this moving scene

began crying (yup, me too). I spoke with Count Sir Ronin (who knighted

Jafar) afterward, expressing my respect and admiration for these actions

by the Chivalry.  He told me there were members of the Chivalry who

began to cry, as well, and could not finish reciting their oath, but all

had sworn their fealty in their hearts.


Her Highness, Kenna, was embraced by every member of the Chivalry

present after they had sworn their fealty.


As a side note, I was told that Their Highness of the East, Timothy and

Gabriella attended the visitation Friday night, paying Their respects to

both Kenna and Scott Hall's family. They left for home Friday night to

attend an Eastern event that was held Saturday.  (I was priviledged to

meet and work with them during Pennsic 24 when They were King and Queen

- They are wonderful, caring people.)


Thank you Master Erik for your summation of today's sad events.  I sat

in the front row with Sir William and Lady Isolde. Perhaps tomorrow I

can write more of what I was fortunate enough to hear of the service.


Regards, Alexis MacAlister (remembering the fun times we who were

Jafar's Curia were priviledged to have)



Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 00:52:30 -0600

From: froggestow at (Roberta R Comstock)

To: sca-arts at

Subject: Re: Anglo-Saxon funerary urns


Stefan li Rous <stefan at> writes:

>I have heard comments from SCA folks of wanting to be buried in their

>best SCA garb or armor but I don't know if has ever been done.


Baron Sir William Coeur de Boeuf and his wife, Baroness Rosamund, (Barony

of Coeur de Ennui - Des Moines, IA)  were buried in their court garb (he

with his sword) after their death in a head-on collision while en route

to Calontir's the Corontation of Calontirs second King and Queen (TRMs

Shadan and Erzebet).  Many of us in the Barony of Forgotten Sea (where

they are buried) attended their funeral in garb.  The honor guard and

pall bearers were also in garb.


>I know a number of us who have been married in SCA/medieval ceremonies.


A number of couples I know have had their real weddings in garb at

events.  Others have had a quiet civil ceremony modernly and then a mock

wedding at an event.


>While there have been some close calls, I don't think anyone has been

>born at an SCA event

>such as Pennsic. To many, it seems the SCA is more than a recreation or



There was a baby born (to one of the Queens, I think) during TYC.  I

think she went to a local hospital for the actual birth, or was it

immediately thereafter?  It seems to me she was back on site for the

Grand Court at the end of the week.





Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:19:55 -0500

From: rmhowe <magnusm at>

To: sca-arts at

Subject: Re: Anglo-Saxon funerary urns


Stefan li Rous wrote:

>I have heard comments from SCA folks of wanting to be buried in

> their best SCA garb or armor but I don't know if has ever been done.


When Count Black Kane O'Shannon of Atlantia and his Countess

were killed in an auto accident returning from an event they were both

buried in their finest costume and their SCA friends attended from

great distances in great numbers. I believe he was also buried with his

sword. They were greatly respected here.





Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 16:25:12 -0800

From: "J. Kriss White" <jkrissw at>

To: sca-arts at

Subject: Re: Anglo-Saxon funerary urns


>Stefan li Rous wrote:

>I have heard comments from SCA folks of wanting to be buried in

> their best SCA garb or armor but I don't know if has ever been done.


When Sir Allesander sur le Mer (not sure of spelling) passed away from

cancer early last year, his funeral service was heavily attended by SCA

friends (myself included).  He was buried with his knight's spurs and his

wedding ring, as he'd requested.


Lord Daveed of Granada, mka J. Kriss White,

Barony of Calafia, Kingdom of Caid



Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 16:39:36 +0000

From: "S.B. McDaniel" <fretknot at>

To: sca-arts at

Subject: Re: SCA burials in costume


Lord Stefan wrote:

> I have heard comments from SCA folks of wanting to be buried in

> their best SCA garb or armor but I don't know if has ever been done.


Baron Dale the Small of Atenveldt was buried in his finest SCA clothing,

wearing his coronet, knightly belt and sword in the early 80s.  As Dale

was mundanely a retired Marine Corps officer, the burial service

included a marine honor guard.



Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 17:19:28 -0700

From: Sheron Buchele/Curtis Rowland <foxryde at>

To: sca-arts at

Subject: Re: SCA burials in costume


At 04:39 PM 1/8/99 +0000, you wrote:

>Lord Stefan wrote:

> I have heard comments from SCA folks of wanting to be buried in

> their best SCA garb or armor but I don't know if has ever been done.


Shortly before I joined, the founding Baron & Baroness, the seneschal, and

one other (I believe the treasurer) of the Barony of Cour de'Ennui (Des

Moines, Iowa) were killed in a car crash (on the way to Coronation).


I was told that the B&B were buried in SCA garb with his belt, spurs and

their coronets.  I don't know about the others.


On a lighter note, I can see wanting that.  I have paid *way* more for garb

than I ever did for modern dress.  Definitely more spiffy, anyway.


Drive safely and so that we can keep these stories to a minimum.


Baroness Leonora

Master Healer to the Crown of the Outlands



Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:59:30 -0600

From: froggestow at (Roberta R Comstock)

To: sca-arts at

Subject: Re: SCA burials in costume


On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 17:19:28 -0700 Sheron Buchele/Curtis Rowland

<foxryde at> writes:

>Shortly before I joined, the founding Baron & Baroness, the seneschal,

>and one other (I believe the treasurer) of the Barony of Cour de'Ennui

>(Des Moines, Iowa)  were killed in a car crash (on the way to Coronation).


>I was told that the B&B were buried in SCA garb with  his belt, spurs

>and their coronets.


Yes, that was William & Rosamund Coeur de Boeuf.  I attended their joint

funeral (discussed in earlier post).


> I don't know about the others.


The others were Elizabeth Hightower and Elizabeth of Greystoke(?).  I

don't know about their funerals, but one of them had a husband who

objected  strongly to her SCA activity.




ps - There were heartfelt toasts to Sir William Coeur de Bouef at Bns.

Elina's wake last month and at the Hotel Forgotten Sea (a household) New

Year's Party.



Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:39:04 EST

From: <LadyEirinn at>

To: sca-arts at

Subject: Re: SCA burials in costume


Yes, it has been done here in Artemisia, as well.  My friend and Seneschal

Lady Katerina de Clisson was buried just a few months ago in her best garb,

and the whole shire turned out in garb, and King Alan Youngforest gave the

eulogy.  It was one of the most beautiful and touching ceremonies I have

ever attended.  There was a piper at the graveside, as well.


Lady Eirinn O'Riordain, Shire of Gryphon's Lair, Kingdom of Artemisia



Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:33:44 -0700

From: Hillary Anne Ryan <catluvr at>

To: sca-arts at

Subject: Re: SCA burials in costume


It has been done here in Atenveldt as well.  Mistress Blanche, a Laurel, was

buried in one of her favorite Elizabethans.  And Lady Chrisjahn og Samsoe

was buried in her finest court garb.



Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:08:32 -0700

From: "J. A. Smith" <jasmith at>

To: <sca-arts at>

Subject: Re: SCA burials in costume


When we lost Baron William de Vallier, his family (who didn't do the SCA)

not only invited all of his SCA friends, had a table set up next to his

coffin displaying his squire's belt, banner, crown and some of his personal

armor and costumes.  They welcomed us as part of his family.  The Pastor of

the church explained each step of the services as he went along so that we

felt as if we were part of the services.  But one of the best things that

happened was at the graveside one of our members who was very close to

William pulled out a pocket flask and we all took turns toasting William.

When the police officer who was still there saw what we were doing he took

off his hat and turned his back to us till we were done. We felt that was a

neat thing for him to do.  We also named one of our sites Cour de Vallier

(the heart of Vallier). after him.



Subject: ANST - Re: WR - XXth Event

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:41:25 MST

From: debbie andrews <galiena at>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


I am not sure who received what awards, the Stepping Down and Stepping Up

were both beautiful, and emotional.


My most cherished memory?


After it was announced that a family from North Keep had lost everything

in a house fire, and we were passing the hat to help out, I started

gathering monies from the people in the group I was in. After taking it

to the table I noticed HL Eleanor (who had been asked to take money as it

came in) was sitting at the table crying. The mass of people trying to

give her their money was overwhelming. I was able to make it over to her

and begin to help. Ansteorrans were giving from the heart; there are two

things that stand out. One was when the young man who had lost all sat

down at the table while we were counting. He laid his head in his hands

and stammered that he could not believe that strangers were helping his

family like this. I looked at him and told him that he knew no strangers

in Ansteorra, only family. We as a family gathered over $3000. not

counting items donated! The other was when a Kind Gentle came to the

table and emptied out  his pouch and told us that he had enough money to

get him home, that was all he needed, he gave the rest. These are the

memories that I will carry in my heart. Not the fighting, the A&S, the

beautiful clothing, the wonderful feast, or the rain. Tho all of it was

terrific and worth remembering (okay, except the rain). I will remember

how  we as Ansteorrans pulled together and helped out our brothers and

sisters in need.


I Remain in Service to this WONDERFUL Kingdom

HL Galiena Gruenstien

Kingdom Hospitaler



Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:47:09 MST

From: "Lady Simone" <margiejr at>

Subject: ANST - RE: ES - Heal Thyself first

To: <ansteorra at>



Baroness Xene here,


It is my belief that the discussion of declining memberships and pay-to-play are just a symptom of a greater problem within the Society for Creative Anachronism. Like any group, we are bound to have some internal strife and factionalism, but it has become the mainstay and topic of discussion in most of the groups throughout the Known World.



Very well written Xene,


I am compelled to add my insights, as being and old-timer in this Game. That is what this is a Game. one in which I have been involved with since I was 10. One that has been as instrumental in saving my life as AA and NA have been and are today. many of you in this kingdom do not know the type of person I was when I entered the Society. I want to share with you  a view of the society from my past and how it has effected my life. in the story bellow "you" incases all those in the society that were there at the time


It was the summer of 1979 I was 10 years old. in the grip of Alcoholism and Drug addiction. I had no care or concern for my self let alone others. I was a thug, liar, cheat and a thief. I had not respect for my parents let alone authority or myself. Though I was a retch you reached out. you thought me the meaning of Honor and trust, and as I grew to understand the values held and started to practice them in the safety of The society I came to believe them and practice them in my daily life. The change was gradual, and through it you encouraged and supported me. you helped me become ready for the help I was to receive mundanely 5 years after I joined the society. I went into Drug and Alcohol rehab. you were there with letters and support. At a time in my life when I had no family to turn to because of my actions while drinking and using drugs. you Nurtured and led me as parents.  When I went to my Half-way house you encouraged my Sobriety and the changes I had to make to learn how to live sober and Clean. You visited and held demos at the halfway house helping and encouraging the lives of not only myself but other teenagers with my problem. There was love tolerance and concern by you. You were there in the worst of my life and helped nurture me through the storm to the other side. you have been there every year when I receive my Sobriety Birthday Chips, you've continued to encourage me to grow. Today I have been clean and sober a little over 15 years. I owe you a debit I can never fully repay. Because with AA; NA; and you in the SCA I have a new life today. I was saved from hell of addiction and have found freedom.  I become saddened when I see internal contrivers and strife tearing at the fabric of you who mean so much to me and my life.----end of story


I have seen our Society grow and change. I have seen this kingdom Grow and Change. Sometimes the change has been good. sometimes the change has been not so good.  yet in recent years I have watched the dream decay and it saddens my heart. I have seen a group I love being torn apart by internal strife, petty politics, personal ego's and selfish agendas and ambitions. by people in all ranks more willing to Pass the blame, and not take on responsibility for themselves. By the spreading of Gossip and Unfounded roomers. by individuals more concerned with what they can Get or Achieve, than by what they can give or teach. By individuals that hold onto resentment of the past, not willing to forgive or acknowledge situations change.


It has not always been like this, and I can not pen point exactly when the problem started. And truthful that is not at this time important. what is important is that we acknowledge that there is a problem, and instead of continually complaining about the problem or trying to sweep it under the table. WE start working looking at and working on a solution. We stop looking at blame and start concentration of what we can do to fix the problem as a whole. We are a society of loving and caring individuals. People with Strengths and weaknesses. From the lowest to the highest, from Popper to crown, yet we are still people with human frailties and strengths. were going to make mistakes. we are going to have differences of Opinion. we are going to occasionally hurt each others feelings. we are human.


We Need to look at ourselves. at our own Part as individuals. then we need to look at our own part as part of Households, groups guilds and circles in our society. then look at our own part in relation to our kingdom. Have we been holding onto resentments. Has fear caused inaction or us to be overly-cautious. Have we been expecting to much from the people around us, from our Peers, Nobles, Lions and Crown. Have we ignored inappropriate conduct and enabled it to continue because of a persons Rank, title or reputation. Have we continued to spread roomers. have we reached our goals by scarifying the dream for others. Were have we been selfish and self centered. Do we strive for awards and title for the power it is to give us, or because we are willing to accept the responsibility and service that comes with it. We need to look at were we have been intolerant of others. we need to look at ourselves honestly, and take responsibility were we were wrong. Then without pointing fingers we need to  repair were we have caused damage to others and the society.


We need to deal honestly with each other. Tell each other how we feel and why. We need to work together to better our kingdom and society in unity. Not striving for positions or recognition for the power you may gain. stop looking at the peerage , noble and crowns in a selfish light of OOOHHH look at what power I can have from getting this. and recognize them for what they are positions of service with responsibilities to the society and Kingdom. Look at how you can help and support them in there positions of leadership and service. Allow them the room to be human and make mistakes.


We are here to Have fun, the society is something to dear to all of us. let us work to make it better not let it decay


Lady Simone Maurian Ui'Dunlainghe



Subject: Re: ANST - thoughts on what is the sca all about ...

Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 22:08:41 -0500

From: Lee Lemons <lalemons at>

To: ansteorra at


DonnelShaw at wrote:


We all go through stages of playing the game. There are times in our lives

when we play hard and are at everything. Then there are times we just play.

And there are times we do a little of both.



Well said Donnel!


And there are times the SCA is about the big, fully-armored fighter kneeling

in front of a child water-bearer getting some water, and the awed look on the

child's face as he walks off after hugging the child for the water.


Sometimes the SCA is about someone being so sick she has to leave site to

get home (2 or so hours away) for her medicine, basically leaving all her

camping gear for whoever wanted it, only to

find out later that, unasked,  gentles had packed it all up in order to

bring it back to her.  By the way, that one huge act of kindness influenced

her to not leave the SCA.


And sometimes the SCA is biting your tongue to not say something you'd

really like to say but know it would only make matters worse, not knowing

all sides of the story, but feeling strongly about what you do know, anyway.


Finally, sometimes the SCA is just a huge family, with all the good and bad

thereof.  Any of the above mentioned people could have been "hobbyists" or

"immersionists" or whatever else can be

dreamed up to label each type of person who decides to join the SCA, but the

SCA is open to all, and while diversity can bring change and / or problems,

it can also enrich.


And I'm not sure I'd want it any other way.





From: Bob Dewart <gilli at>

Date: July 15, 2004 5:06:00 PM CDT

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] My SCA Family in times of need


Hillary Greenslade <hillaryrg at> wrote:


Recently, an e-mail was posted entitled 'A Plea for Help', forwarded to

the Ansteorran lists on behalf of Mistress Shanahan the Fey, of Stargate. Shanahan, a founding member of Ansteorra, and Stargate, and has found herself in physical and financial difficulty at this time of her life.


She is about to lose her house, after being out of work for a time.




I didn't get to go to this years anniversary.  But I did make it to the last one.


We were having feast when they announced that someones house had burned down

while they were at the event.  Almost before the announcement was finished,

people were standing and going to stand in a line to make donations.  It

brought tears to your eyes.


I guess it's time to stand and get in line again.


Money will be on the way tomorrow.





From: Elizabeth Blackthorne <damsle_n_distress2003 at>

Date: July 15, 2004 2:14:10 PM CDT

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at>

Subject: [Ansteorra] My SCA Family in times of need


Greeting unto the Kingdom of Ansteorra,

When I saw this plea for help my thoughts went to a time when I too was in need and my Ansteorran family helped me.  It was at Patrick and Julia's (I think that's right) coronation.  I had attended mainly to be of support to Aaron and Britta as they stepped down and also this was to be my first Coronation.  My friend and I had decided to camp because our funds would not be able to bear the motel expense and the trim merchant.  When we arrived Friday night we had gotten lost and it was late so in major disarray our tent went up and our belongings were scattered.  We awoke the next morning and decided to deal with it later because we wanted to see the King's Champion tournament, and everything else going on so we dressed and set out to enjoy. After Aaron and Britta stepped down there was an intermission of sorts before the stepping up court.  I was socializing with those I knew when I heard my mundane name heralded.  I was needed by the Sheriff's department.  It is scary to be told a

mundane police officer from another town needs to speak with you, I knew it must be important for them to track me down there.  


It was a message for me to call home, there was a family emergency.  Some young man I didn't even know allowed me the use of his cell phone, and sat patiently while I used his minutes blubbering and crying because I received the news of my grandfather's passing.  After that I found someone to herald in the hall for my friend because I could not locate her.  Another person I didn't know taking time for me in my time of need.  Once she was located we went out and found the auto-crat, so we could give our feast tickets as a prize or whatever because we had to go.  We had our money refunded, which we did not expect.  Then this person rounded up people to help us tear down and pack up.  I'm not sure how many came but in 20 min we were totally packed up and it was neater than we ourselves had done before in hours.  


We were not even allowed to help because as it

was put to us my job was to grieve and her job was to comfort me.  I have wanted to say thank you to all of these people since that day, but I wanted it to be more than just mere words.  Due to not knowing most of my SCA helpers that day, it seemed impossible to do this, until now.  I was told once that when someone does something for you and you cannot repay them, do something for someone else.  I will be sending funds to Shanahan the Fey in repayment for the kind deeds of my SCA family.  I encourage all others who have been helped by those in this Society to repay these kind deeds the same way as I am sure Shanahan will do when it is her turn.  I do not know this lady and that is why it seems so fitting for me to help her because I did not know most of my helpers that day either.


Lady Elizabeth Blackthorne

Shire of Crossrode Keep



<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at