SCA-The-Dream-msg - 2/9/99 What the SCA means for different people. NOTE: See also these files: SCA-reasons-msg, SCA-as-family-msg, magic-moments-msg, non-SCA-part-msg, A-Peer-Within-art, Fndng-T-Dream-art, The-Blow-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: sclark at epas.utoronto.CA (Susan Clark) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: congrats... Date: 21 Mar 1993 11:02:58 -0500 Organization: The Internet Greetings all-- Yesterday I think I found out what "the Dream" could really mean. At this year's Ice Dragon, a terminally-ill little girl was invested as "Her Radiant Highness, Princess Jaqueline" and thence presided over the day's festivities. The winner of the fencing tourney became her champion and she was presented with many gifts by many of the royalty of the Known World. This was in fact the second "make a wish tourney"--the first was in Caid, and the banner representing the program which had flown there was displayed at this tourney. Princess Jaqueline recieved a crown, a scepter, a book of poems dedicated to her and the assembled royalty by Hector of the Black Height, and the good wishes of all. She was "adopted" by a SCAdian girl of about the same age, who not only befriended her, but gave her the respect due to a princess. Her investiture was one of the most touching things I've seen in ages. I saw many damp eyes among the populace. For once we could put away our politics and mundane cares and share in the fulfillent of a dream for a little girl. So, to the planners of this event in the Barony of the Rhydderich Hael, "Vivant and Wassail"! May we see more of this in the future! Regards Nicolaa de Bracton of Leicester sclark at epas.utoronto.ca From: jprod at sagepub.COM (Journals Production Department) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: SCA as Game Date: 30 May 1993 23:19:36 -0400 Organization: Sage Publications, Inc., Newbury Park, CA Lately I've been seeing a _lot_ of references to the SCA as a game. I have serious problems with this concept. It might help if people defined what they mean by "game" -- Webster's Ninth New Collegiate, which is our standard here at work, gives as its first definition "activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : PLAY. It then procedes to a number of other definitions which don't fill the bill at all. It seems to me that if you take part fully in the SCA, it's no game -- at least not by the above definition. Certainly it still provides diversion and amusement, but that ceases to be _why_ one engages in it. The SCA provides more than just diversion: it offers experiences, relationships, and fulfillment difficult or impossible for those participating in it to find in the outside world. In ThinkWell there's a thread going on about the SCA as a religion, and I think there's more of a basis for this than for the SCA as a game (although it may be argued that religion itself is a game for some!). A week or so ago, someone said "We, being a culture ourselves...." and Arval said, "...this is an opinion, not a fact" and went on to make some very good points (as usual). _Culture_ may have been wrong, but (once again, according to Webster's), _subculture_ is entirely accurate. The definition that applies is "an ethnic, regional, economic or social group exhibiting characteristic patterns of behavior sufficient to distinguish it from others within an embracing culture or society." (Some might think definition 1, "a culture [as of bacteria] derived from another culture" even more apt!) Now, very possibly, people who play a lot of D&D (or other role-playing games) might also fall under the subculture definition. That makes them a D&D (or RPG) subculture, but it does _not_ make the SCA a role-playing game. I think Bettina and HG Cariadoc are both wrong. The SCA may have started out as a game, but it is far more than that now. Possibly you would help find a roomate or a job for a stranger someone had told you played D&D, Bettina, but I wouldn't, and I play. I would try my best, however, for someone in the SCA -- sight unseen -- and I'll bet most of the people on this board would, too. I know at least one knight who insists that the SCA's a game to him, but he didn't get where he is by treating it like a game, and the members of his household (who think he hung the moon) are as serious as they can be about chivalry, honor, and a certain amount of authenticity, even. I agree entirely with HG Cariadoc in that the SCA is "in the real world." I think it is more a part of the real world than we (most of us) are willing or, possibly, able to admit. In that it affects how we think and what we do, whether we are in garb or out, actively taking part or functioning in the outside world, it has helped to change and form us, and it's the rare game that does that. I would venture to say, too, that if a game -- chess, D&D, what have you -- _does_ do that, then it has become more than a game. Would you call the Masons a game? They have rules, like us. They have a hierarchy, like us. And, like us, when they're at work in the world outside of their Order, they carry with them the tenets of Masonry, which make a difference in their lives. I'm not just talking about ideals, here -- people who have been hurt by the SCA carry the bitterness with them; people who feel they have been passed over for recognition, intimidated by forceful people, ignored by cliques, etc., etc. have all had their lives changed by the SCA. It seems to me that those who actually treat the SCA with the superficial attention one gives to checkers don't stay in very long, and most of them are unwilling even to lend a hand in setting up the pieces or putting the board away afterwards. That's fine with me -- I prefer people around me who are intent on and intense in their enjoyment of the immense variety the SCA has to offer, and who are willing to do a little hard work for the reward of being a valued part of a fascinating international family. The SCA is not a game. It is not a religion. It is a subculture, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were here to stay for a _very_ long time. Like chess. :-) Sister Kate -- Journals Production Department, Sage Publications, Inc. 2455 Teller Road, Newbury Park, CA 91320 voice: (805) 499-0721 fax: (805) 499-0871 via Internet: jprod at sagepub.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance) Subject: Re: SCA as Game Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 19:16:56 GMT Kvedjur fra Mikjal! Master Huginn Hrothgeirsson has presented a lecture at a couple of Calontir university sessions on the "Anthropology of the SCA". After looking at the "culture" of the SCA from the point of view of an anthropologist, he concluded that the SCA was not a subculture (like the hippies of the '60s), but a "guest culture", being more like groups who are "guests" in a foreign culture and unable to return to their "homeland" (whether returning is attainable (like Jews and Israel) or not (like refugees from a on-going civil war)). In the case of the SCA, our "homeland" is not a place, per se, but a time. It's a thoroughly fascinating lecture. Unfortunately, he only has the rough notes from which he has given the lecture, although he does plan to eventually write a formal paper on the subject. Mikjal Annarbjorn -- Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields Work: mc307a%viking at swgate2.sbc.com of St. Vidicon" Play: ab899 at freenet.hsc.colorado.edu mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ctallan at epas.utoronto.ca (Cheryl Tallan) Subject: Re: "Register what you use, and use what you register." Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 23:19:02 GMT Let me begin by admitting from the start that Quendor does not sound like a modern name to me (if by modern you mean names that parents are giving their children these days). However, it does not strike me as a medieval name either. It is possible for a name to be niether modern nor medieval (Gilgamesh is a pretty good example). It is possible for a name to be medieval AND modern (Mary is an example, as is, dare I say it, Thomas). You seem to be saying :"If it's not modern it must be medieval" and/or "If it is modern it must not be medieval". There is no necessary connection. You also seem to be saying "The purpose of our game is to take us out of the modern, mundane world. My chosen name does that. What's the problem?" Correct me if I've misinterpreted the thrust of your argument (either to the Rialto or to tallan at flis.utoronto.ca, not to the account I'm posting on). The problem is that for many of us, escaping the modern world is not enough. We have a specific destination in mind. For just about all of us, that destination is the Middle Ages. Seeing (or hearing) things that are not medieval do not help us reach that destination. This is not to say that everything you do or say or wear or whatever must be medieval. Nobody is capable of that! Never mind the money, the time, the knowledge (more than anyone is likely to be able to amass in the course of just one lifetime), etc., nobody has the energy! However, if you are going to devote the time or effort to do something, whatever it is (choosing a name or heraldic device, learning a song, making a costume, preparing a feast, the possibilities are endless) may I encourage you to make that something, that you are devoting your efforts to, medieval. It is my humble opinion that everyone gains that way. The Society gains both in terms of the medieval atmosphere created and by fulfilling its expressed purpose: education (while creating something medieval constitutes education, I doubt that creating something "medievalish" qualifies). Those around you benefit both through the bit of medieval culture created by you and through education (should you share the knowledge that you acquired). And you gain by learning something about the Middle Ages, through the satisfaction of doing something that you know is medieval,and through the time saved in documentation (it takes 1/10 the time to document something when you hit the books first, or less - I found this out the hard way and have learned from my mistakes). This was not meant as an attack on you. It is meant as an effort to share some of what I learned in over ten years in the SCA so that you might avoid some of the errors that I made. David Tallan (known to some as Thomas Grozier, Lord Mayour of the Cite of Eoforwicke, who was first known in these Current Middle Ages as Trantrist O' Mercenrike) From: priestdor at vaxsar.vassar.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: You see what ya wanna see Date: 3 Sep 93 03:23:08 +1000 Organization: Vassar College I don't spend much time here, I was up late and decided to listen in. 200 messages later and well, I'm confused. If you were all so offended at the blatent oop stuff you saw at pensic, why are you still carring it around? (talking about it so much?) Were we at the same war? This year I met people making rope beds who never tried using a chisel before, saw people making bone needles to sew their leather lamalar together with, gentles making shoes, finishing garments of fine cloth THAT THEY WOVE. I witnessed the shooting of a war point with self wood bows with strong linen strings, folks fighting in stout steel or sturdy leather, people gathering dye stuffs and soaking samples, MAKING A FORGE ON SITE AND TURNING ROCKS INTO METAL. I smelled bread cooked in ovens built on site, tested theft proof locks for caskets, heard tales of Beowolf and Njal. I enjoyed a perforance of comedia, got to play a portative organ. I saw people eating on trenchers, drinking from horns, glass or leather, waking up under canvas... And all this and more I saw with my own eyes, heard with my own ears... Yes, we need to reduce the mundanities at the war, but I've heard nothing here of those gentles from all kingdoms who came to the war and made the past live. My pensic was enriched by their effort, was yours? I'd enjoy hearing about that. Dof (who should probably know better than to try to write at 3:15am) From: ds4p+ at andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: OUR Society Date: 9 Jan 94 14:51:31 GMT Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Hi folks! People who've met me know me to be a mostly merry soul who delights in making people smile with poems, songs, puns, and eadible treats. I'm also a politician in what I hope is the best sense of the word, someone who tries to move organizations to do what's best for the people that compose them. Recent comments from a number of directions have made me less merry. The comments I'm talking about are the ones that say, in general terms: If you don't like the direction the Society's heading in, with more restrictive waivers, required memberships for combat related activities, and so on, then you should just pack up your bags and go elsewhere. Such comments are the SCA equivalent of "AMERICA: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!" Those of us who've been in the Society for a long time know the real principles the SCA was founded on. Fleig was there at the first tourney. I've been around for nineteen years. Others who learned about the Society from folks like us understand that the values that were part of the early Society are worthwhile ones that need to be preserved. It's OUR Society, too. We built it. It would be easy to blame all the problems we're having now on us "old-timers" not taking the time to properly explain to the new- comers what the Society is all about, but I don't think it's that simple. I think it's mostly a matter of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. People who don't understand about civil liberties needing constant defense are all too willing to give them up, even in the context of a social club like the SCA. What are the "real" principles the SCA was founded on? Here's my list. Remember, we began in Berkeley in 1966. o Inclusivity Everyone willing to put on some attempt at garb is welcome. o Anti-establishmentarianism While we may need a few internal structures we don't want'em to be all that powerful and reserve the right to complain about them at frequent intervals. The BoD was one guy's power trip and has been power tripping ever since. Ignore it when it gets out of line. o Rampant Individualism The rights of members to do-their-own-thing within the context of the club shall not be infringed so long as it's at least in some way connected to period history. Oh, yeah, it's 1650. o Chivalry People try to be their highest and best "selves," in the Society. We're one big family. We look out for and support each other. We trust (until given sufficient counter-evidence) each other. o Valuing People We judge people by their actions and their contributions to the Society in terms of work, arts, and so on -- not by their words, the dollars they send to California, the money they spend on their 'kit' of armor, garb, etc. or their mundane social status. I'm sure there are a few more, folks, and would love to hear others suggestions, but these are some of the key principles I think we were based on and it saddens me to see us becoming another group that's ossified into a bureaucratic stasis. I won't give up these founding principles without a fight and urge those who feel likewise to join me and keep pressing for a return to what we were founded on. Thanks for listening, friends. Remember that it's OUR Society, too. My best -- Bertram Bertram of Bearington . Debatable Lands . AEthelmearc . East Kingdom . SCA Dave Schroeder . Carnegie Mellon University . Pittsburgh . PA 412.731.3230 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: motto at cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto) Subject: Re: Why the SCA? To dream or to learn? Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 21:00:43 GMT In article <1994Jan3.231011.18149 at novell.com> chipc at novell.com (Chip Clark) writes: Greetings, Good Gentles of the Rialto from Rosaline. It is a cold and snowy day today in Rokkehealdan. I send you all wishes for warmth and comfort. I am responding to this post in a most unusual way. I beg your indulgence. Answer the First A discussion of the difference between Ren Fairs and the SCA. The gentle who posted had commented that in experiences with a Ren Fair, that fantasy was all that was important (or words to that effect). I was struck by the difference between the SCA and Ren Faires at my first event. This difference was not apparent at demos I'd attended which were presented by the SCA, and only became clear once I'd become a participant. SCA events are for the benefit of the participants. The Ren Fair and Demos are for the benefit of the Audience. There is a major difference. There is something ever so much more enjoyable about recreating a small piece of the past along with others who are doing the same than to do so with the pressures, desires, and needs of an audience to satisfy. There is also a difference when the person who comes up to ask about your garb is also wearing garb and not mundane clothing, and things like that. But the most important thing is that there is an undertone of, for lack of a better word, one would call "chivalry". It is an environment of mutual respect for the efforts of others. It is an environment where information is shared. It is special. This is not to say that Ren Faires aren't special or enjoyable. I appreciate them very much, and attend them frequently. But there, even in your best garb you feel very much an outsider if you don't work there. I was not allowed to sing at the local Ren Fair as I would have at an event, because the organizers did not want people to come in and "cut in on" the earnings of the hired performers. (And I never accept money! I just like to sing.) In any case, Ren Faires should not be taken as an example of what the SCA is like and vice versa. Answer the Second A discussion of personal motivations for participation in the SCA How can you describe love? How can you make someone understand something so full of emotion? It is so easy to sound crazed when you try to explain what it is that you desire or enjoy or love when the person listening does not share the same feelings. Ever since I was a young girl, I have been fascinated by things connected with the "Middle Ages". Beyond "fairy tales", beyond the "princess -- prince charming" thing; a deep fascination. A fascination that lead me to read countless books about knights and armour and horses and castles and more. That lead to the extensive study of history and the writing of sonnets. That lead to the making of model weapons and costumes and more. That lead to frequent visits to the Ren Fair and the making of many friends in the SCA, and finally to joining the SCA. But how can I explain "why"? That is the hard part. Why do I find the swords to be so beautiful? Why do I go to the effort to make garment upon garment? Why have I collected so many books and videos and artifacts? Why do I find it all compelling enough to devote my time to it and my effort to it and my time to it? These are very difficult questions. You might as well ask me why I love my children so much. I am equally at a loss for a logical answer. But I will answer your questions in a more unexpected way, which may shed light to lead you to answers of your own. >I ask - Is there anyone interested in recreating History for it's own sake >or are we all lost in our own fantasy worlds? Nothing is done for its' own sake in this life. It is done for personal pleasure or gain or to avoid unpleasant (even if self-inflicted) consequences such as the loss of self-esteem or guilt or punishment. I am not lost. I have a map (my research) and a compass (my judgement) and a path to follow (my heart's desire). We all live in the world of our own perception. To recreate the past we must suspend disbelief (to ignore wheelchairs, glasses, etc) and thus enter into an agree-upon fantasy. >After one season, though, it is clear that the fantasy is really what's >important and not the performance or the recreation. I want to perform. Perhaps this is the problem. You want to perform. You look upon it as your stage. The SCA is not a stage. The concept is not performance but *experience*. I do not "perform" at an event -- I experience the event as Rosaline, a 13th century Englishwoman. If it is truly your desire to perform, than you should find your way to a suitable stage. >Perhaps I need to return to the stage and Shakespeare. I love history. >Perhaps I need to return to school and study it in earnest. A love of history can be pursued in many ways. School is just one place where it can be done. Earnestness is independent of location. > >So - I ask again - Doesn't anybody like recreating history for it's own sake, >or are we all lost in our own worlds of fantasy? > And I answer, No and No. Nobody recreates history for its' own sake - they always do it for other gratification. And No, we are not all lost. I would hope that we can all find our own paths in life to experience many interesting and pleasurable things. If part of the experience is to enjoy the creativity and innovation within to enjoy a wider variety of entertainment than is available without such effort, then a person is likely enriched by being able to enjoy fantasy as well as reality. I have waxed philosophical today, haven't I? But such is my nature. I have been in a thoughtful and philosophical mood of late, reflecting on the absence of my mother and father who would have celebrated their birthdays this week were they still alive. And my 36th birthday is swiftly approaching, and at each birthday I find myself examining my life and weighing the choices that lie along the path ahead of me. On the 18th of this month I will be another year older, and I will have accomplished a great deal in the preceeding year. It is up to me to determine what I will try to accomplish in the year ahead. I will leave you with this thought. If every day I can say that I am open to learning something new or old, trying something new or old, and sharing the knowledge I gained in my life, then I am satisfied that I am living positively. Long-winded and philosophical, Rosaline From: vader at meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Why the SCA? To dream or to learn? Date: 6 Jan 94 02:05:40 Organization: Indiana Jones University Greetings from William de Corbie! John Wemyss asked: > Is there anyone interested in recreating History for it's own sake or are > we all lost in our own fantasy worlds? The middle ages that I love are those of pageantry, chivalry, feudalism, cathedrals, scholasticism and a life enveloped in ancient traditions. A world where people live among mysteries and wonders. A time when a man's word means something even if he has no plastic card. A place where people are close and depend on each other. A small world, where anything on the other side of the mountains is strange and wondrous. This is a romantic image. I leave out the dirt and drudgery, the evils and oppressions, the cold and darkness, the rotten food and the death. Still, I can love the middle ages without adding to them -- or can I? A realization dawns. As a re-creation involving modern people, the middle ages are unavoidably flawed. We are unable to truly depict that distant era, because most of us do not share the beliefs and attitudes of medieval man. The relationships and dependencies between us are not the same. There is so much of medieval culture that has been lost. What remains is not always interesting -- lots is just boring. At least, it does not serve to re-create the world I am looking for. Authenticity is a creed that many of us profess, but we do not mean full authenticity. We still use power drills when making armor, and modern facilities like showers, sleeping bags, coleman stoves, tape, matches, and so on. The authenticity we are talking about consists in things that look like real medieval items. Pavillions instead of modern tents. Longbows instead of compounds. Handwritten scrolls instead of printed diplomas. But we use synthetic fabric in pavillions, fiberglass and dacron for the bows, and most scrolls are written on paper with steel pens, and the gold is usually paint, not leaf. All of this demontrates that our chief interest is not archaeology or historic research, but an experience of wonder. We often call it "the Dream". If this is truly what we want, and we are ready to abandon history in order to simplify things, then how do we define the authenticity that we claim to desire? Isn't it just another buzzword by which we can mean whatever suits us when we say it? I think I know why we talk so much of authenticity, while we are not really authentic, and often do not even try to be: The Dream can never be our principle, because we all have different dreams. In a Society where everyone follows his medieval dream, we will get elves with pointy ears, maidens in silver polyester gowns, Robin Hoods with compound bows, dozens of wizards named Merlin and Gandalf, and perhaps even courts conducted to rock music. All these things may be part of somebody's Dream, but they will conflict violently with other people's Dreams. We need something more objective and reliable than that, to found our work on. My own Dream contains many things that are not authentic. I would love to have the royal procession enter court to booming wagnerian music. I confess that my Dream is more a product of movies and romantic books than of historical research per se. For me, anything that contributes to the "experience of wonder", the magic moment when I'm suddenly not here in the 20th century any more -- any such thing is good. But the more I learn about medieval reality, the more sensitive I get to things that are not authentic. And if the Dream was our principle, we would only get annoyance, through the clash of so many conflicting Dreams. The only thing we can use as a norm or a goal to work towards, is authenticity. But authenticity, for most people in the SCA, will never be a goal in itself. The goal is the Dream, and authenticity is a vehicle to make it come true for as many people as possible. William From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: rewards and freeloaders Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 11:47:27 EST Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op From Megan come these words. Having recently read sundry ideas from certain combustable folk who lurk about in the corners of this otherwise lovely Bridge, I am moved to think about, to ponder the nature of the Game we Play in regards to rewards and those accused of "freeloading". I cannot speak for all the Knowne World, for, Official Statements to the Contrary, it has been my experience that there are always differences between Kingdoms. I speak only from my own experience. Here in my Barony (I do shudder to say it) we do have some people who attend events regularly yet seem to contribute little to the ordering or planning or running of those events. At first glance, it seems these folk get themselves up in garb, haul along their gear, and show up at the door, cash in hand ready to play. What do these folk contribute, I wonder? They have not done anything to make the event happen, they just show up. Ah, but they do play. They provide amusement and partnership and competition and backdrop by their very presence. Their presence adds to the ambiance of our assemblage. I try to imagine our event without their presence. Smaller, less noisesome, less colorful, fewer players make for a lonelier game. What then, if they contribute naught save their own presence? They become the props for my fantasy, the extras in the background who add ambience to the scene. They pay their site fee, which enriches our coffers, enabling us to have better events, nicer feasts, more sumptuous regalia, more interesting and larger publications, etc. And, mayhap, they will become ensnared in the Pleasure as I have, and so seek to learn, to do, to aid, to become a part of the process rather than a mere on=looker. Why do people hang on with out actively participating? Perhaps they are shy, or ill, or disinclined to expend personal finances or time or energy for something for which they feel no sense of ownership. Perhaps they are parents or students or workers who have little free time. Perhaps they feel disenfranchized. Perhaps they feel they are contributing enough by their site fee and their presence. Perhaps no one has personally asked them to become involved. Perhaps they feel overwhelmed by titled folk who "share the burden", and feel uncomfortable intruding in their august presence. Perhaps they have lent their aid in the past and have found no pleasure or reward or satisfaction in it. Rewards. We give them to those who act, who do, who make and who work. We withhold them from those who merely sit and look on. Service for its own sake is rare at best. Many serve for tangible ends...a more agreeable event is the honorable motive, but some serve to reap rewards of a dangly nature. Some seek the prestige the act itself bestows (vivat the cook) others enjoy the social interactions of politics and administrations. In my experience of 18 years, hanger-on eventually become ensnared, or they leave. Dues and membership costs and site fees not withstanding, we ALL pay to play in some manner or other. Who are the free=loaders? Are they the peasants of our society, against the crafters, the merchants, the artists, the nobility? Just a few thoughts. Pensively yours, Megan. == In 1994: Linda Anfuso In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| From: gpetrola at prairienet.org (Gregory Petrolati) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Angus Date: 6 Apr 1994 17:22:29 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana I see my lady has added her tuppence to the fray regarding the much aforementioned Scottish personage. The thing I most remember about my times spent "In goodly company" was THE DREAM. THE DREAM was when all worked well and conditions worked right, you forgot (however momentary) the twentieth century and WERE the dream. It happened several times for me. Once (and most memorable for me) was at the Pensic War III (I think, as time dims the specific year). We had arrived late the previous night, somehow, the tent was pitched, though at the time I don't remember doing it. We retired. I was up a the crack of dawn and walked out in- to a fantastic morning. I could smell bacon frying somewhere. Someone was working on armor down the hill. I could hear his quiet tapping. There was a low fog that hid the National Guard water wagons and portapotties at the base of the hill. It was just the that The afore mention Scott (who was crown- prince at the time, if memory serves) and two compatriots who had been up all night reveling came swaggering down the the hill singing an outrageous (period) song. CLICK! I was not in Pennsylvania I was ELSEWHERE! I tell you this because it is a treasured time for me. Now it is sullied. I will not be able to remember that morn with out thinking how things have fallen out. Sad. As the tale has been related to me Angus has drawn the SCA in- to his mudane crime as defense. To this old Baron, he is harming the image of the SCA that we (and I say we because we all worked on it) labor long and hard at raising. We have, over the years, This seems to me a treasonable offense. Treason among the peerage has its own punishment. GREGORY VON LUCIDA (once Baron of Bahkaill) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) Subject: Re: Asking for advice Organization: University of Chicago Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 04:14:45 GMT Voluspa asks "how can young or shy or new people find the heart of the SCA and really enjoy themselves? " An interesting and important question. I think the first step is to realize that the SCA is many different things to different people. At a large event, or in a large group, that means that there are many subsets of the population for which "the SCA is X" is true--with different X's. There are the people for whom it is a chance to have wild parties and promiscuous sex. There are the people for whom it is an opportunity to "freak the mundanes" (my least favorite category). There are the people for whom it is a chance to make friends with a variety of interesting people. There are the people for whom it is a romantic dream made real. There are the people for whom it is a chance to pretend, for a little while, that they are really in the Middle Ages (not the same as the previous category, although there is a lot of overlap). There are the people for whom it is an opportunity to do research for fun. There are the people for whom it is an opportunity to practice interesting skills, such as writing and reciting poetry, or doing heraldry, for which there is little space in the ordinary world. The next step is to find the people for whom the Society means what you want it to mean. At Pennsic, you can do it, with sufficient searching, for almost any plausible X. In a small group, they may not exist--and your only hope is to get other new people, and perhaps a few old people discontented with the game they are playing, to play your version of the Society. In a large group your odds are better--but it depends how homogeneous the group is. Most people like to talk--about themselves, and about others. One possible tactic might be to encourage people in the group you join to tell you about the group. You can accept their information without agreeing with their judgement. If they tell you that person Y is an authenticity freak, you can take that as a reason to avoid Y or to seek him out, depending on what you are looking for. Similarly for other categories. David/Cariadoc From: MICHAEL ALLEN CRAMER Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: children of SCA Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:32:06 -0800 Organization: California State University Sacramento On 24 Jan 1995, SouthArt wrote: > I grew up at many tournaments. I have long been inactive in the SCA, so > please excuse my ignorance. But my family was active in the late 70's in > Kentucky, Lexington and Louisville. There are many approaches and > attitudes in the Society, but just a glance at the topics and the number > devoted to recreational drug use (for example), I feel reflects a certain > 60's ethos at work; the pre-Raphaelite Romanticism at play in the > Sixties. I have been deeply influenced by my involvement as a child and > teenager in the SCA. I remain (for the best I believe) a dreamer and a > romantic, refusing to except the grey, plastic nature of the modern world. > I lived recently in the Czech Republic, which also hearkened me back to > my days in SCA. The epic of Charlegmagne is a far cry from Rescue 911. > So a toast to you all. > Amazing, that someone long removed from the group should cut right to the heart of what (at least from my perspective) we are all about. I joined the SCA when I was newly fifteen, but had lived near the counter culture for many years and, in fact, my parents had been to SCA events as early as year 3 in Berkeley. Many people forget that this group was born in Berkeley in the 60's, a time when you could walk down Telegraph Avenue and one in four people you met would be wearing a t-tunic and harem pants. The counter culture was one of the most powerful forces in the growth of my kingdom (the West), and even though we've evolved and changed, moved more from the fantasy to the historical, gotten more conservative with age (well, some of us), and formed strong, deeply held opinions about chivalry and knighthood and kingship (and I am one of the most opinionated I know), there are still days when I look around a tourney field at all these people dreaming an impossible dream, running around in funny clothes on a bright spring day, listening to music being played right there in front of them, drinking and laughing and trying to live in a better world just for a couple of days, and I think this is no different then a Whole Earth festival or a Graeful Dead concert or a weekend up at Sweet's Mill, and I fall in love all over again. Thank's, SouthArt, for reminding me -- from one Pre-Rafaelite dreamer to another. A toast to you as well. By the way, would love to hear about Prague. --Valgard Jarl (valgard at mercury.sfsu.edu) From: uunet!:uunet!sphinx.sps.mot.co (10/1/94) To: uunet!TREK.SPS.MOT.COM!MARKH RE>Media events MH>What was it that you saw back at Pennsic IX that got you to stick around MH>or to inquire further? Lets see: Mom got her MA by sinking the final nail into the coffin of the pre-1950s "truth" that Chaucer wrote the Romance of the Rose (he translated the work of its two French authors) and Dad taught World History (when it was basically European Civ. through 1912) and I grew up in a house full of books ranging from JRRT to Will Durant and Churchill's history books , Chaucer himself and in "translation" tons of F&SF and American Heritage from V1#1 etc. Couldn't stand the SF Congoers met in high school, I mean they were basically good, but incomplete people who got their kicks from others' writing and couldn't move outside their books and their authors. Couldn't stand Dad's view of international politics and the folks who thought the U.S. was right in sending people a few years older than I was to support corrupt Christians over an elected Buddhist in Viet Nam, especially because he was educated in Moscow (France too, but that's another tale)). (he started to change as I became a card-carrier (fortunately, never got beyond 1-H, though I still have my CO and 4F files hanging around here somewhere) Rebelled a bit and went looking for Woodstock Nation. And suddenly, I find it, colliding right with the history I was raised with, along with the fantasy elements the Fen miss out on - the idea of becoming a real person, in my case, two real people, one who hangs out during the 100 Years War and is well-developed and one who was born a few generations later and fences. Yeh, doubters, this feudal society is what Abbie was talking about only he was off by about 300 miles and 500 years - a place where if you just walk in, someone will clothe you, and if you're hungry, someone will feed you and if you've got cash you can leave it in a tent (or as I did my second year, on the ground) for hours or days and it'll still be there when you get back unless someone takes the time to track you down to return it. And it was a place where those who knew taught, trading skills and history and poetry; a place where most folks carried weapons but no one feared getting hurt; where a merchant could leave $20,000 worth of stock in a TENT without worry - and go walking into the night, also without a care. And where there were 15 different parties going every night from stodgy purists at dance to drunkards drinking until they spewed; places where skalds recited hours of poetry, good, decent poetry (much more of the bad stuff, but we ALL know what Sturgeon said). Where I could correct someone on herb lore, while another taught me the skills of the epee. Where I did literally risk my neck by getting into armor for 15 minutes to discover EVERYTHING I had read about fighting in armor was absolutely WRONG! Where there were fewer working telephones per thousand people than there are in all of Egypt; where a regional power failure had absolutely no effect on us! Where everyone but the violent, discourteous and intolerant were welcome, or at least tolerated by all. Where the only outside "news" anyone ever listened to was the occasional NOAA weather broadcast. Where almost everyone was "family." This last War was both the best and worst for me - best because I spent a week resting up from the world watching (and helping out) as a bunch of pastures and farm fields became a city of 10,000 - worst because my mundane expertise is not-for-profit fraud and mismanagement investigations. After four years in, I realized the Society was not perfect and I spent too much time learning the oddities of California not-for-profit law while teaching federal not-for-profit law and tossing around suggestions which basically broke down to Federalists vs. State's Rights types (OK, world organization or kingdom - I'm for having a single strong nation with a better bunch of advisors to the Crown myself). And I'm probably gonna have to volunteer some work setting those things aright so I can get back to learning how to work steel and satin and period sealing wax, and, damnit, how to properly speak Middle English! I hope, m'Lord Stefan that this begins to answer the question. It adds up to a gut-level thing, I mean I pulled into Cooper's this year and the first blue-shirt who started giving me directions to Troll was greeted with a loud shout from me of "I'm HOME." Aleksandr the Traveller [david.razler at compudata.com] Edited by Mark S. Harris SCA-The-Dream-msg Page 16 of 16