peerage-cerem-msg – 2/10/14

Thoughts on SCA Peerage ceremonies.

NOTE: See also the files: coronations-msg, chivalry-msg, oaths-lnks, Fealty-n-t-SCA-art, mottoes1-msg, Feudalism-art, Award-Rec-Let-art, peerage-vigls-msg, The-Peerage-msg.

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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 07:42:09 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Now here's the rub. TRMs commanded me to sit my vigil and present
> myself before Their Court on the morning of Coronation on the 22nd of
> this month. On that same morning I am SECOND in command, executive
> sous chef if you will, of the feast for that evening. I'm thinking of
> delegating the vigil to a few other people to sit in shifts or
> putting a really big paper cutout of me on the kitchen door that
> people can sign with their well wishes. I have food to cook!
>
> Iasmin, Baby Bird Vigilante

Yup, SCA tradition lives.  Here's your Pelican, now everybody BACK TO  
WORK!

There is much to be said for a "walking vigil" where well-wishes are
made during the day's activities as people catch up with you.  I was too
busy on the day of my "vigil" to sit around in one place, that's for
sure.  In any case, the kitchen can probably spare you for the Court
appearance.  Seriously.

Selene


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:06:17 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

At 07:21 AM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
> I got my Maple Leaf (Principality Arts Award when Artemisia was still a
> principality) many years ago when I was in the middle of finishing the feast
> prep for a multi-course Middle Eastern dinner.  I do believe I came out into
> court, apron on and ladle in hand, and said something along the lines of,
> "What? I need to be cooking?" ;o)
>
> --Maire

Heh. When I got my Goutte de Sang (grant-level service award), I was in my
camp kitchen ( which was up against that back of court, and I could
see/hear most everything), cooking dinner for the Crown Princess. I was
cutting up pork cutlets to braise when I heard my name. Apparently I
uttered a "Sh!t!" that was audible in the back rows. I had the presence of
mind to put down my knife, but I was still wearing my apron (that said
'Chez Elaine' in gold glitter script on the front) and was covered in pork
grease as I went up the aisle, much to the amusement of Her RH and the
crowd. His Maj looked at me  funny, but gave me the dangly anyway.

Seems to me that being called for a service award is likely to happen  
While one is, well, serving!

'Lainie


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:09:55 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Adele de Maisieres wrote:

>> I was pulled out of the kitchen just prior to service for my Pel, it's
>> just a damned good thing I was as organized as I was.  I was a basket
>> case afterwards, and only my extensive timetables and service lists
>> posted on the wall saved the feast!
>> Christianna
>
> I have to say that I'd be pretty unhappy about that.  I'd be annoyed
> by being pulled out of a kitchen (where, for all anyone knows I'm in
> the middle of doing my best work ever). And I'd be _extremely_ upset
> by being surprised with a peerage.

I'm surprised that Huette has not yet chimed in.  It was 25 years ago
that she was pulled of the kitchen for her Laurel, back when candidates
were not warned.  She almost didn't come out, it took two tries to
extract her as I recall.

Selene


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:10:11 -0400
From: "King's Taste Productions" <kingstaste at comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Heh, you can ask those who know me how I felt about it (and still do).
Let's just say I won't let it happen to anyone else if I'm around to say
anything about it!

Christianna

-----
I have to say that I'd be pretty unhappy about that.  I'd be annoyed by
being pulled out of a kitchen (where, for all anyone knows I'm in the
middle of doing my best work ever). And I'd be _extremely_ upset by
being surprised with a peerage.
-- 
Adele de Maisieres
-----

Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 08:15:21 +1200
From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Susan Fox wrote:
>> I have to say that I'd be pretty unhappy about that.  I'd be annoyed
>> by being pulled out of a kitchen (where, for all anyone knows I'm in
>> the middle of doing my best work ever). And I'd be _extremely_ upset
>> by being surprised with a peerage.
>
> I'm surprised that Huette has not yet chimed in.  It was 25 years ago
> that she was pulled of the kitchen for her Laurel, back when
> candidates were not warned.  She almost didn't come out, it too two
> tries to extract her as I recall.

I don't know what the norm is elsewhere, but Lochac doesn't do ambush
peerages.  I'd be absolutely beside myself if it happened.  I'm not even
certain whether I'd want to *accept* a peerage, and I'd have to make the
decision on the spot.  And add to that being straight from the kitchen.
No, thank you-- in filthy clothes and tears is _not_ my idea of a good
experience.
-- 
Adele de Maisieres


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Well, almost 25 years ago, back in the days when they did drive-by Laurellings.  I was Head Cook/Feeast-o-crat/whatever, for the June Coronation feast.  
 
There I was, minding my own recipes, attempting and succeeding to get my feast for 300 done by the time I said I would get it done.  When in comes two of the king's guards, stating, "You wanted in court."  I looked up in surprise.  "Sorry!  But I have a feast to put on.  I have no time right now."   They went away and came back with two more guardsmen.  I told them the same thing.  A bit
later they returned with a friend of mine, who said, "Please go!  I am positive you will like it!"  "But I am in the middle of this dish, which will be ruined if I don't keep beating it!"  "Let me take over for you?  You know I won't let it become ruined."  Reluctantly, I allowed the guards to lead me into court, where I walked right into the middle of a Laureling ceremony.

Unfortunately, I didn't get a vigil or any chance to clean myself up or make sure that my family was there to see my elevation.  And afterwards, I didn't get many congratulations and good wishes from others because I had to go back into the kitchen and finish the feast. I also had to do clean up, because my clean up crew didn't show.

Please, let someone else take over for that feast.  You can do the prep work, but, trust me, you don't want to miss out on all the hullaballoo and partying that goes with an elevation.  I never got such.  I wish that I could have enjoyed my day.  But I was just too responsible to my commitments.  I feel like I was denied all that everyone else gets as part of this passage.  You have earned this.  Allow yourself the fun and celebration!  You won't regret it!

Huette
Caid

> Thank you kindly folks. Was quite a surprise. I'm told "deer in
> headlights" doesn't quite describe my look well enough. Of course I
> couldn't see much buried in my husband's kosode crying my fool head
> off.... :)
>
> Now here's the rub. TRMs commanded me to sit my vigil and present
> myself before Their Court on the morning of Coronation on the 22nd of
> this month. On that same morning I am SECOND in command, executive
> sous chef if you will, of the feast for that evening. I'm thinking of
> delegating the vigil to a few other people to sit in shifts or
> putting a really big paper cutout of me on the kitchen door that
> people can sign with their well wishes. I have food to cook!
>
> Iasmin, Baby Bird Vigilante


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:17:47 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Gaylin Walli wrote:
> Now here's the rub. TRMs commanded me to sit my vigil and present
> myself before Their Court on the morning of Coronation on the 22nd of
> this month. On that same morning I am SECOND in command, executive
> sous chef if you will, of the feast for that evening. I'm thinking of
> delegating the vigil to a few other people to sit in shifts or putting
> a really big paper cutout of me on the kitchen door that people can
> sign with their well wishes. I have food to cook!

Firstly, let me say that Phillip and I are both so very pleased to
welcome you into the Order...Phillip said, "Welcome, Sister!"  as do I.

And yes, things can get a little strange in situations like this.  Back
when I got my Pel, they didn't do vigils and such...it was more like
calling the person forward, telling them because they had done such and
such amount of work for the Kingdom and so you get a Pelican.  Here's
your medallion and your scroll.  Back to work!  I actually heralded the
Court where I got mine...at the end of Their Last Court, the Crowns had
me call in a group of people that I didn't really put together as a
group of Pelicans.  And so on from there.  But, as luck would have it,
there was a fellow there who was videotaping Coronation and got my
elevation on tape...ten years later I found out about it and he made me
a copy.  I did get a vigil for my Laurel...but the Crowns were somewhat
confused when Phillip told them I wanted one!

Kiri


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 23:43:41 GMT
From: "morgana.abbey at juno.com" <morgana.abbey at juno.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

On a related note (to the question of fishing):  Creador  
TwineDragon's vigil was by the Lake at Aethelmearc War Practice.  So  
he fished.

Doing something useful during your vigli sounds sensible to me.  (of  
course, I'll never have to deal with it)

Morgana


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 21:45:47 -0600
From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

They (that mysterious, multi-kingdom, royal "they") still do surprise
peerages.  Both of mine were drive-bys.  The laurel was, uhm, maybe 15 years
ago? (actually can't remember), when we were still part of Atenveldt, and we
often weren't even told what we were being specifically recognized *for* (I
wasn't, but I think that gives me leave to change the descriptors as needed,
no? <g>).  The pel came much later (2 years ago this Fall), and we're now a
kingdom.  Friends in the circle knew I wanted advance notice, but the king
apparently felt that since it was the only time Their Majesties and I were
likely to be at the same event, they needed to do it *then.*  I still wish
somebody'd warned me--dress was a mess, and my hair was indescribably bad
(had been wearing a peri-oid muffin cap all day).  And I was rattled enough
that when I realized what was going on (had gone up to make an announcement
about a fund-raising raffle), that I actually exclaimed "oh, SHIT!" loudly
enough that the entire court heard me.

Let me tell you, in a small kingdom, they never, never let you forget things
like that.....

--Maire, Artemisia


Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 00:32:19 -0400
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Congratulations Iasmin ;-)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Well, Andrea's was highly amusing, at Pennsic this year ;-) She had been
> given her writ at a previous event, to get her Peerage at Pennsic, but the
> gig was, that she wasn't to be told WHICH Peerage she was getting- because
> she was getting both ;-) Eventually she found out before her vigil- don't
> know if someone let the cat out of the bag, or if someone (who was allowed
> to) finally took pity on her, but for those of us who knew, it was highly
> amusing to offer her congratulations, while not saying a word about which
> one ;-)
>
> Phlip

I don't remember if it was Andrea herself or someone else who told me
the tale.  Evidently, Their Majesties staged a mock argument just before
she was sent on vigil.

"We're giving her a Pelican."
"No, Dear -- we're giving her a Laurel."
"A Pelican."
"A Laurel!"
"Pelican!"
"Laurel!"
"Well, we'll just have to give her both."

Or something like that.  I wish I'd been there to see it.

Now that I think of it, it was Master Ian, the Viceroy, who told me the
tale.  He was rather gleeful about it.
-- 
Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:29:18 -0800
From: Sharron Albert <morgana at gci.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re:elevations drive by surprises
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I got my pelican in AS XVI, when I think pretty much all peerages
were surprises. And only rarely did a king come all the way north to
Winter's Gate (Fairbanks, Alaska). I had been cooking literally all
day, and had had several conferences with His Majesty during the
previous couple days He was here about what awards to give to other
people (was a founding member and seneschale), so you can imagine my
surprise when I was called up at the end of a long court, divested of
my much-earned bowl of ice cream, and then struck dumb (I am seldom
speechless) when I realized what was going on (luckily, I had seen a
mere few peerage ceremonies before so I understood what was going
on). Knowing that practically everyone in my local group and some
from other places about Oertha-to-be had made recommendations made it
quite special.

But now, should I ever get good enough at anything in particular to
earn a laurel, I think I should like to do a vigil. Funny how things
change over the years...

Surprises can still be good, but only if it is really known they want
it. I had a protege once, and we'd had that discussion on and off. He
was also possibly a laurel (brewing) and a knight. I questioned him
about every six months about it. So when he got his pelican, he got
surprised, as he'd repeatedly stated. He only wanted to vigil if he
ever got knighted. But when in doubt, ask, is a very good policy.

Recently we had a new bird added at coronet in January, and the King
was minded to surprise her at court when he asked her if she wished
to join. We in the council circle all counseled otherwise, so she was
tricked into the meeting, and then asked. As we suspected, she
collapsed in tears of surprise. It would have been far more difficult
for her at court. You just gotta know your candidate (G). Her
ceremony on Sunday went very well, I am pleased to say.

Morgana
-- 
Morgana yr Oerfa, OP
Winter's Gate/Oertha/West


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:44:52 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Weather
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

At 06:00 AM 10/12/2006, you wrote:
> So let's have details regarding the foods and eats; you mentioned
> apricots, I think.
>
> Johnnae
>
> Laura C. Minnick wrote:
>> I did my vigil bath this past weekend- at night, with the weather in the
>> 40s. And somehow the boyz got the water too hot. Dunno how. We had
>> condensation problems in the pavilion because of it.
>>
>> 'Laini

Food and eats?

Well, my sweetie cooked dinner, for starts. Losyns, Beef Ystewed, Funges,
Benes Y-fried, and Chycken in Hocchee, with Flan of Alemayne for dessert.
For the vigil, Morwyn  made a variety of cookies and sweets, and some
little savory bits. Lessee what I can remember... Gyngerbrede, shortbread,
marzipan, pistachio marzipan, White Torta, candied orange peels, apricot
roses, some almond and honey candy, and some little tarts that we call
Crusader cookies because they looking Maltese crosses when they're folded
up. And there was mushroom tarts (I think from the 'mushrooms of one night'
recipe), and she made chicken soupiquet and cuminade and put them in little
hand-held pie thingies. They were really yummy.

I ate too much. Who'da thunk it?

'Lainie


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:18:35 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lainie's vigil was Re:  Weather
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

At 06:37 AM 10/12/2006, you wrote:
> So, when ya gonna tell us all the details, girlfriend? ;oD
> --Maire, imagining that condensation would be a pain in the  
> patootie in a canvas tent!

Well, my pavilion is actually nylon Supplex, which breathes well but the
moisture beads up instead of soaking in- and drops on you! It was  
rather funny!

I have a variety of primary texts on Chivalry, and several of them have
details on the vigil before being knighted. Since as far as I'm concerned,
the three Peerages are all the equivalent of knighthood, the vigil docs are
equally applicable. So I went through and cobbled together a plausibly
period ceremony for the vigil bath, and went from there. (If anyone is
interested in seeing the ceremony, email me offlist and I can send you the
Word doc.)

My sweetie brought his French bell so that we could have a place to sleep
without dragging all of our stuff in and out of the tent. We set up the
poster frame from my bed inside the blue pavilion, and put the bathtub (a
plastic 140 gal stock tank- perfect size and shape for one adult) inside
the frame- with the bed curtains it afforded quite a bit of privacy for the
bather. We borrowed one of those giant 2-burner propane stoves (something
like 30k BTU) and heated water in big stock pots. I put herbs and such in
the tub before adding the water (sage, rosemary, mint, lemon balm, some
oregano blooms, rose petals and a little rose water) so as the hot water
was poured in, we had scented steam- the smell was heavenly. :-)

The ceremony going into, during, and exiting from was a series of readings
and recited Latin prayers. We even incorporated the pre dieu, which was way
cool. My friend Katrine (who is also being Laurelled at Yule feast) went
first. She didn't want to get out of the tub. :-) I went next, but the boyz
got my water a bit (ok, more than a bit) too hot and even after adding more
cold, it was hard to sit and scrub. But I managed. We all stumbled a bit
over our Latin (even the herald, who was my student Laurence) and there was
lots of joking around, but it was all really pretty special and I'm glad we
did it.

After the baths were done, the boyz emptied the tub again and we dismantled
the bedframe, and set up chairs and such in the pavilion, for peers to come
and talk to us. We'd planned to stay up all night, but it was so cold that
we packed it in about 4 and crawled into our beds. I was so cold I dreamed
that someone said that is was -60 and I believed them! (That's cold!)

One of the best parts? Getting up in the morning and having leftovers for
breakfast! Yum! Mushroom tarts and White Torta and marzipan for breakfast!
That's stylin'!

Any questions Maire? Anyone else? Bueller?

'Lainie


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:48:13 -0700
From: "Wanda Pease" <wandap at hevanet.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] FW:  Lainie's vigil was Re:  Weather
To: "SCA Cooks" <sca-cooks at Ansteorra.ORG>

From Regina's viewpoint:

Ah, yes... the Weather.

Friday we got in at about 6pm and it was beginning to get dark.  The
Autocrat had found us an absolutely beautiful spot; level ground, near
the tree line (under some small trees) so we had a wind break and shade
if we wanted it.  Good thing I had actually put up my tent in the last 6
months in the daylight or I would never have made it.

Thankfully some intelligent soul (not 'Lanie or I) had brought flash
lights.  I have 5 that I bought for around the house, and I have several
that are supposed to be in the car...  I'm going to get some of those
with several LED lights that take very little power to keep in the car.

Lanie's big blue tent was missing the ridge pole because it required
slight alterations since the last time so we had to wait for James to
get there from Ashland.  Of course he got in about 2 hours later than we
expected. He brought the two E-Z ups for the kitchen, the pole for
'Lanie's tent, all the kitchen gear and flashlights.

We all collapsed into bed about 11pm.  Since I have taken to bringing my
own private facilities I snuggled down in my sleeping bag with a wooly
comforter over the top and slept until nearly 9am the next morning.  Why
is it that sleeping bag zippers always migrate to the bottom, underneath
you?

We had absolutely beautiful weather Saturday.  Cloudless blue sky, temps
in the high 70's.

By sundown the temperature began to slide.  By 9pm it was getting down
into what I call cool/cold.  The big propane stove was fired up and pots
of water began to heat.

Katrine got the first bath and all was well.   Unfortunately the water
had been heating for 'Lanie for some time and it was HOT.  She evidently
shed her outer garments and stuck a toe in.  Shriek!  More Cold.

We are standing around outside watching the tent.  Evil minded Lanie has
placed candles so we do not get puppet show.  Much muttering by would-be
observers.   We wait, and wait, and wait.  Lots of sins to wash away
obviously!  Sing Non Nobis hoping to get Kenneth Brannagh complete with
armor and surcote instead of wet 'Lanie.

Not to be, but here comes Lanie in lovely virgin white linen robes and
red cloak with gold orphreys and white rose chaplet.  Looked like pagan
sacrifice or one of the flower girls for Fractured Fairy Tales.

No really, she looked very impressive.

The menfolk dismantled the bed frame which had served as the frame for
the bath tub and stacked it to one side of the tent and the two
Virginally Pure Ladies sat down to listen to the combined wisdom of the
ages coming from other Peers.  I don't know how much they got because I
slipped in early and hit the rack.

The night got colder and about 4am they gave up and headed for their
cozy beds.  James says 'Lanie became human Velcro.  Her only complaint
came from the lovely little period shoes she had sewed for herself.  We
were set up in what had been the Mission's hazelnut orchard (some
walnuts).  The trees had been dropping their marble sized nuts for
several days and the squirrels hadn't been able to keep up.  Foot
contacting hazelnut...  I leave it to your imagination.  'Lanie may need
another bath to wash away the words she used :-)

Next day started partly cloudy so we slept late (9am is when God meant
me to wake up).  I put water on for tea and puttered around eating left
over Vigil food.

Day got a bit cloudier

Finally James arises and the rest of the crew begin to come alive.

We sit and discuss the events of the night before.

The heavens cloud over, but nothing that looked particularly threatening
... if you come from Montana say.

I finally went into my tent to start packing and stuffed my sleeping bag
into its sack.  Pulled everything out of the tent and took off it's rain
fly, then turned it over so the bottom could dry.

Felt the first drops...  Surely not!  The sky is just grey...

Surely...  A light rain ensues.  I pull upside down tent over items from
inside tent and go get car from parking lot.  Trudge, trudge.

Curse prohibition of no cars on the grass.

Campsite that seemed so wonderfully peaceful away from the Madding Crowd
now just seems to be far away.  Trudge from Car to campsite.  Trudge,
Trudge, Trudge! Rain, spitter spatter.

Pick up costumes and other soft items that can go in front seat and
trudge back to car.  Cursing wearing clogs that match my gown but are
painful to walk in for long periods, particularly over ground.

Get James to bring bathtub over to car so we can force it in and I can
pack inside it.  Fortunately my little wheelbarrow fits in car next to
bathtub.

Much trudging was done before we finally managed to get mountain of
"stuff" to cars and packed.  'Lanie's bed is picturesque, but definitely
not for me.  Heavy, takes up enormous amount of space.  Makes my
military cot seem ideal.

A light rain was had by all and we made it home with only a few quarts
of water soaked into things.  Nothing important.

Must find energy to take things upstairs and put them away.  I should
wash my raspberry gown but I hate to have it lose it's new look.  Maybe
a nice long soak in gentle shampoo or dish soap, rinse and lay out to
dry...

Anyway, that's the tale of 'Lanie's vigil bath and subsequent bathing by
God.

	Ceremony is written so I get to beg the boon of their Majesties:
"Your Majesties Our Order is not Complete."

	Garb...  I need new garb for this...  I wonder if I could get
away with finishing the black silk velvet Maleficent houpeland?  She is my
favorite Disney character but I worry that I don't have quite the right bone
structure to do her justice...

Regina


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Peerage help wonderment
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 06:37:14 GMT

Heather Rose Jones <heather.jones at earthlink.net> wrote:
>The Bratt <brattboy at aros.net> wrote:
>> >   Do you mean the ceremonial escort? Or just people hanging around 
>> > because their good friend is getting the major cookie?
>> 
>> No, more like making the outfits, making sure the vigil area is taken
>> care of.
>
>I confess that I'm trying to think of a constructive reason for
>performing a "whose is bigger" comparison of this type.  Does having
>more assistants make a new peer more worthy in some fashion?

I have the feeling that it's partly Interkingdom Anthropology,
partly the passage of time.

A few evenings ago I was sitting in a meeting with several
Venerable Old Peers of the West, including Sir William of York,
Master Wilhelm von Schluessel, and Sir Hilary of Serendip ... not
to mention my lord husband and myself, who also got our danglies
in AS single-digits.  Sir William commented that peerage
ceremonies had changed a lot since he were a lad, what with
everybody knowing about it beforehand, massive ceremonies with
lots of attendants and witnesses, and night-long vigils
beforehand with everyone invited (there had been one at Twelfth
Night, just past, and he was still reeling from the shock I
guess).

Customs had, as he said, changed a lot since the old days, when
if you were going to get knighted or Laureled or something, the
herald called you up, the King presented you with your token (and
hits you with his sword if you were getting knighted), the herald
exhorted the cheers of the populace, and that was IT.  A
Laureling took up less time and energy than an AoA ceremony does
today.

I pointed out that we try to do it according to individual taste,
which means finding out surreptitiously and over a period of
years (if necessary) what the individual might want.  Eilis
O'Boirne does a lot of this: of an evening, around the campfire,
she brings the conversation around to "if you were getting a
peerage, how would you like it done?" and noting the answers she
gets, from "I want to be totally surprised" through "I'd like
just enough warning to change into clean clothes and make sure my
lady is present" to "I want to be knighted on the battlefield,"
all the way to "I want at least three months' warning, so I can
make new clothes for myself, my lord, and my attendants, and
research and write the ceremony in my persona's native tongue,
and spend some time coaching the King to pronounce it."  And then
she remembers it for as long as necessary.

Other Kingdoms, other customs.  I remember being blown away by a
Laureling ceremony done by the Calontiri, at the one Pennsic I
attended.  Others, I suppose, do things more quietly.  Whatever
works.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt at kithrup.com	


From: "Jay Rudin" <rudin at ev1.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Peerage help wonderment
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:29:40 -0600

"Dorothy J Heydt" wrote:

> I pointed out that we try to do it according to individual taste,
> which means finding out surreptitiously and over a period of
> years (if necessary) what the individual might want.  Eilis
> O'Boirne does a lot of this: of an evening, around the campfire,
> she brings the conversation around to "if you were getting a
> peerage, how would you like it done?" and noting the answers she
> gets, from "I want to be totally surprised" through "I'd like
> just enough warning to change into clean clothes and make sure my
> lady is present" to "I want to be knighted on the battlefield,"
> all the way to "I want at least three months' warning, so I can
> make new clothes for myself, my lord, and my attendants, and
> research and write the ceremony in my persona's native tongue,
> and spend some time coaching the King to pronounce it."  And then
> she remembers it for as long as necessary.

In Ansteorra, it has become custom to call the recipient up, offer the 
peerage, and then ask him / her when they would like to receive it.  I 
remember one person who said, with engaging directness, "I don't want to 
make a dress and have a party -- do me now."

Due to strange situations, both my Laurel and my Pelican came four months 
after the announcement.  While I was still fighting seriously, I told a 
couple of knights, "If you ever talk about me for a knighthood, I don't want 
to hear about it until the king slugs me."

Roboin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin 


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 13:05:48 -0800
From: "western_duchess" <western_duchess at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Order of Chivalry - privileges - a question
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

<<< It's a slap, not a punch, but some slaps seem harder than others (I 
believe King Jade used to put his weight behind it!).

I think it speaks to the whole 'danger' thing in approaching the Crown, 
like don't turn your back until you are out of sword's reach. But then, 
that might all just be apochryphal...

I will leave that one little gift from the Crown specifically for the 
Chivalric Arts thanks.

Maddie >>>

In some kingdoms, it is a punch to the chest or shoulder that is used. 
During Valgard and my reign, 1 of the knights made had recent dental work 
and requested his buffet be delivered to the top of the head so he got a 
buffet that looked like a "punch" to the forehead.  Another knight got a 
punch to the chest by Stephen of Bellatrix due to recent dental work ...but 
generally it is the strong open-handed slap....along with the admonition 
that this be the last blow you take unanswered.

And Jade usually does a very strong buffet ... a few candidates have asked 
specifically that he give it all he has for fear the buffet would look wimpy 
otherwards (silly boys).  I know that Jade gives strong buffets for a fact 
as  during the last court of the West in Lochac, as queen I received the 
last portion of the buffet given to Yves ...Yves not being a very large man, 
the blow sent him sideways on the pillow and continued through ...well I 
thought I had moved far enough out of range...I was wrong and took the last 
of that shot to the abdomen...it was a case of gasp and continue to "smile, 
queen...smile"...

Megan


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:56:14 +1000
From: Braddon Giles <braddongiles at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Order of Chivalry - privileges - a question
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

2010/1/19 Grooby, Peter <Peter.Grooby at airways.co.nz>:
<<< Can anyone explain to my why the Chiv ceremony is the only peerage where the king gets to punch the person being inducted to the order? Hardly seems fair really.

Can anyone explain how this tradition came about and why it has not
been extended to the other peers of the realm?

Vitale >>>

Just lucky, I guess, Vitale :)

Actually, what to include in your Peerage Ceremony is a complex choice
for new inductees, and the buffet for knights is a very controversial
issue. As the last time a person will receive a blow and not return
it, the buffet speaks very strongly to our martial Peerage, rather
than to the other two.

However, we know that medieval children were sometimes routinely
beaten to assit them to remember a particular event, so from that
period learning structure you could argue for the inclusion of the
buffet to all future Laurel Ceremonies, do you think... ?

Giles.

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:51:18 -0800
From: "western_duchess" <western_duchess at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Order of Chivalry - privileges - a question
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Quick story regarding buffets ...not sure when they started or why, but I 
was told that not every king had given them.  Flieg might have more insight 
on that or Henrik...maybe I will pose the question to them.

Stephen of Beckenham apparently did not receive the buffet when he became a 
knight ...and felt a lack because of it.  Later when he was laureled, he 
asked the king if he could receive the buffet that he had never got as a 
knight ...the king agreed, but no one told the laurels about it prior to the 
ceremony ...and it caused quite a fuss afterwards. Many of the Laurels were 
quite unhappy ... some didn't care about the buffet only about not being 
told...some very much about the buffet part of the ceremony.

Later when the West (and I mean central West as it seems Lochac was was much 
more sensible in their opinions and attitudes at the time)  had the all 
peers meetings over the fealty chain foo, one knight made the joking comment 
regarding, if the other peers in fealty wanted to wear a chain of fealty, 
then they should have to take the buffet like the knights.  Now as one of 
the most emotionally invested peers in the fealty chain issue, I did not 
stop to inform him that buffets were considered a voluntary part of the 
knight's ceremony, I very truthfully stated emphatically that if it took the 
king slapping me to have the right to wear a chain of fealty, then bring it 
on.  Those meetings were quite hard on many of the peers over here.  The 
Lochac peers should be glad they didn't have to be involved in them ...many 
of the things said were hurtful ...and some incredibly stupid.  It took 
quite a time to heal the wounds left behind.

Megan


Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:14:21 +1100
From: Donyale Harrison <donyale.harrison at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Order of Chivalry - privileges - a question
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Thank you, Megan!
I love it when you post on topics, as the history is broad and well told.
Although ouch! You poor thing! I was concentrating so hard on trying to see
if Yves's head was still on, I missed your injury, sorry!

Questions touching on anything to do with the knights are always the most
emotional. When I chat with people who have just won crowns, I mention that
they will think the Laurels are the highly strung order, but it is actually
the Chiv. I stand by this entirely. (Laurels are more like Italian
villagers, where there is a history behind every statement that shall Never
Be Forgot.)

The idea of the buffet being voluntary has been rather forgotten by some.
AEdward didn't want one at all, or just a small push to the chest if it
mattered that much to people. You may actually recall the drama that
followed (and I remember you being calm and supportive and just plain wise
through the whole thing, for which I still thank you!) -- it was as though
he had suggested he barbecue the King's dog as part of the ceremony.

The level of Drama that followed from a few was remarkable, to the point I
still remark on it (and Alfar, if you are reading, it is things like this,
not the Shambles, that see me headdesking over the Chiv). But Sirs John
Theophilus and William the Lucky were brilliant, and gave advice to the
effect of: 'Dude, they're knighting you for who you are and what you stand
for, so don't change that. You can always wait on the ceremony if you need
to.'

The Prince at the time was a good friend, and smart monarch, and he gave
similar advice. In the end, a compromise was struck that saw everyone
reasonably happy, because the King at the time was not a bad man, he was
just used to thinking in one particular way and it took him a couple of
hours to get to the 'Hey, how about we do this?' place.

Since then, we were given the privilege of reigning in Lochac and had the
good fortune to knight a very fine man. And the joy of hearing him say,
before the issue could even be raised 'Just a symbolic buffet, thanks. A
push to the chest, like in the medieval ceremonies.'

Yolande


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 21:47:33 -0800
From: "western_duchess" <western_duchess at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Order of Chivalry - privileges - a question
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

On 20/01/2010, at 7:51 AM, western_duchess wrote:
< Stephen of Beckenham apparently did not receive the buffet when he 
became a knight ...and felt a lack because of it. >

<<< In what way? >>>

I don't know exactly how (just heard the brief story) except that he felt he 
hadn't received the buffet...that all the other knights had ...maybe similar 
to the feeling of missing some element that I felt as a pelican in fealty 
but no symbol of the same. Later when King Christian called me into court 
and gave me his chain stating that I had taught him a lesson in fealty he 
had not understood before ...it felt like everything was right.  That 
gesture gave me my symbol of fealty from the hand of the king (and in months 
after a lot of angst as we then went through the horrid fealty chain issues 
and all peer meetings and some distinct ugliness from a few peers).  But 
that chain was there to remind me that as a peer in fealty, I was bound to 
the crown and that such an oath is a heavy responsibility not to be sworn 
lightly. (IMO...YMMV)

< Later when he was laureled, he asked the king if he could receive  the 
buffet that he had never got as a knight ...the king agreed,  but no one 
told the laurels about it prior to the ceremony ...and  it caused quite a 
fuss afterwards. Many of the Laurels were quite unhappy >

<<< How did they work that into a laurel ceremony?

Giles >>>

After he received the Laurel medallion, the king told him to bow his head 
...and smack...one buffet done...both the populace watching and the laurels 
present were to say the least surprised.  Only later did any explanation 
happen.

Megan

<the end>
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