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SCA-awards-msg - 6/29/08


Comments about SCA awards and the SCA award system.


NOTE: See also the files: A-Peer-Within-art, Hst-SCA-Fence-art, Award-Rec-Let-art, award-rec-let-msg, crown-cost-msg, knighthood-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)

Subject: Re: Time to Peerage (was Re: Arrow in the Eye)

Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 05:24:29 GMT


The following article was published in the July Pikestaff (East Kingdom).




                       Of Time And Peers

               Aleksandra de Accipitre, C.M., M.L.


There is a running discussion among those who play this game seriously about

which peerage is the "hardest" to get.  This is defined in various ways, the

most common of which is "takes the longest," generally supported by anecdotal

evidence.  ("My peerage took SO long . . . .") In a recent fit of

desperation to avoid serious work I decided to put together some

more-than-anecdotal evidence on this subject and compiled the following

table of averages (all times are expressed in years):


                       Rattan Combat       Arts          Service


AoA to                       OTC: 2.31   Maunche:  2.60      Crescent: 4.39


High Merit to Peer  2.02          3.60          3.90


AoA to                Chivalry:    Laurel:       Pelican:

  Avg.                       3.74          5.53          7.17

  High                       10             18             17

  Low                 0              1              2


AoA to FIRST Peerage:      Chivalry:    Laurel:       Pelican:

  Avg.                       3.67          4.86          6.44

  High                       10             11             13

  Low                 0              1              2


SOURCE:  The latest Order of Precedence, plus personal knowledge of

some peerages awarded since the end of Ruslan and Margaret's reign.  The

total sample was 52 Pelicans, 62 Laurels and 62 Knights and Masters at Arms.

The sample of those receiving their first Order of Peerage (Royal Peerages

were not counted) consisted of 43 Pelicans, 53 Laurels and 61 members of the



METHOD OF CALCULATION:  I made up separate tables for each of the Orders

of Peerage (except the Rose).  For each member of the Order, I wrote down the

CALENDAR YEAR he/she received: an Award of Arms, the Order of High Merit

in the category corresponding to his/her Peerage, and the Peerage itself.  

(I also noted which were a person's second--or later--Peerage.)  I then simply

subtracted the years.  "Average" is a simple arithmetic mean.  The use of

years, rather than months, may have produced some distortion (e.g., someone

who got two awards 6 months apart would have the difference listed as either

1 or 0 years), but I assume these distortions are random as to direction,

and so cancel each other out.  I doubt that using months would produce

significant differences in the average time between awards.  High and low

figures are plus or minus 1 year.


NOT INCLUDED in these tables are:  Peerages given outside the East

Kingdom; anyone not listed in the Order of Precedence (such as Peers who have

moved out of the Kingdom); Peers for whom I could not find a date for either

an AoA or an Order of High Merit; members of the Orders of High Merit who do

not also hold the corresponding category of Peerage. (That is, the average

time from AoA to OTC is true ONLY for those members who are also in the

chivalry, and similarly for the others.)


WHERE NO AoA was listed, I assumed the person received an AoA with

his/her first Order of High Merit, since these are armigerous awards.

These cases were NOT included in calculating the time from AoA to

such Order.


For all Orders of Peerage, the average time from AoA to Peerage is LESS

than the sum of AoA to High Merit and High Merit to Peerage.  This is due

to people who got their AoA WITH their Order of High Merit, and to

people who received a Peerage without ever getting the corresponding Order

of High Merit.


What does all this mean?  A good question, and one to which I'm not sure

I know the answer.  On the face of it, it certainly seems to confirm the

"popular wisdom" that the chivalry is the easiest and the Pelican the most

difficult Peerage (at least in this Kingdom.)  There is, however, one

important piece of data missing: how long someone was active BEFORE

getting his/her AoA.  Is it really easier to get a peerage for fighting, or is

it just harder for a "stick jock" to get an AoA? I leave these questions open

and hope that this information will prompt informed discussion.


I will be happy to send copies of my complete data tables to anyone who

sends a self-addressed, stamped envelope (business size, 29 cents postage)

to:  Sondra Venable, P.O. Box 1826, New York, NY 10025.



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca


Subject: Re: Time to Peerage (was Re: Arrow in the Eye)

Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 16:09:00 GMT


>Two questions:  What's the average time from AoA to peerage where you

>come from?  And what's the fastest you've ever heard of it happening?

>Ancarett Nankivellis

>Janice Liedl

>Laurentian University, Canada


Greetings unto the Rialto from Marke.

I have some stats for the Kingdom of Ansteorra, compiled by a member

of my shire.


         knights-53     laurels-77     pelicans-39   overall

overall    3             4 11             6 8          4 10

north      4 1           7                7 1          6 1

central    2 9           5                7 1          5

south      2 10          4 4              6 7          4 7

The figures for each region do not include 18 people who's residences

are unknown. The time figures are expressed as years months. As you can

see the figures for knighthood are fairly even throught the kingdom, but

the numbers show for laurels is fairly dissparate (sp?) from south to

north. The author of the stats told me that half of Ansteorra's laurels

live in the southern region. Not shown is the numbers for years in the

SCA before getting AOA. These numbers are not available, but best guess

places Kingdom average at 1 year and 6 months.


                                           uccxdem at mvs.ucc.okstate.edu



Subject: Re: ANST - Too Many Awards, Too Fast

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:06:26 MST

From: Lee Lemons <lalemons at flash.net>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


One more thing to consider - when people recieve awards too quickly, sometimes

that means that they, not through any doing of their own, have received some of

those awards before they really, totally earned them.  I've known a few

individuals who felt badly, who felt guilty, upon receiving an award too early.

They knew it was not right, everyone else knew it wasn't right, but because one

or more individuals wrote glowing award recommendations, the award was granted.

It is a horrible feeling to get an award and just have that gut feeling that

it was just too early for it.


Just another perspective to consider when thinking of sending in an award





C. L. Ward wrote:

> Bjorn Lochlannac <bjorn at odsy.net> said:

> >Justg wanted to let you know that I agree with you 100%.

> >There is nothing to make a person "burn out" faster than

> > feeling taken for granted.


> and Faith Vedder wrote:

> >> And if they get no encouragement they will burn out and leave as well.

> >> It's a fine line.


> But as several people have already pointed out, you DON"T have to give

> awards to acknowledge peoples' hard work and effort. Public recognition,

> word fame, a small gift in court from the local noble, all of these work

> equally well as an award.  They are in fact more welcome many times than an

> award.


> Sure, we could lump all the awards onto a person in no time at all.  Have

> you noticed that once a person is a peer or a noble they mostly don't GET

> any more awards?  Or if they do, they are few and far between?


> Now think -- you've rushed this person through getting this stack of

> awards, not taking any account of timing between the awards.  Then they hit

> this brick wall after which they won't get much of anything else. How will

> that feel to the person who is used to measuring their acceptance within

> the group and achievement by getting a cookie every few months?


> It's also important to recognize that not everyone gets awards in the

> Society.  I've seen it stated before that many people never get more than

> an AoA.  So how do *those* people feel when they see Lord

> On-the-Fast-Track getting umpty awards all the time?


> Another point to consider -- maturity and behavior aren't closely evaluated

> for many of our awards, but they become critical factors in whether or not

> a person will get a Peerage, or one of the grant-level awards where the

> members of that order are polled (White Scarves and Centurions). It

> normally takes most people a few years in the Society to develop the

> maturity and understanding about how the group works that would allow them

> to be considered for one of these awards.  What happens when a person racks

> up all the awards short of the peerage, then  --- nothing?  And that person

> won't get the peerage *until* the maturity develops -- but since they don't

> have the maturity, what typically happens is that person gets frantic and

> pissed off because they aren't getting the peerage when they think that

> they should, then they do dumb things that come back to the ears of the

> Circle, and that delays the peerage further.  Had the person's earlier

> awards been spaced out further, by the time they were looking at a peerage

> as the next step, the maturity would be there, too.


> I think it's critically important to recognize people for the work they do

> -- by giving them praise and gifts.  And I think it's important to give

> people awards, but to space them out as well.


> W¾s ?u H¾l (Waes Thu Hael)


> Gunnora Hallakarva, OL

> Baroness to the Court of Ansteorra



Subject: Re:ANST - awards ...

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:03:03 MST

From: "Pat Mullins" <padric at astrosfan.net>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:18:09 -0500 j'lynn yeates <jyeates at realtime.net>


>On 17 Jul 99, at 14:00, Gladwen at aol.com wrote:

>> Please--Please---if you recommend someone for an award at a certain

>> court--please make sure they are there. The scrolls that are prepared

>> represent many hours of work by the scribes who paint them so beautifully.

>> To think of wasting one is unnacceptable to anyone who has ever spent

>> hours painting.


>question ... which is more important, honoring the person's accomplishments

>(whether of not they are there) or the "theater" of the presentation of the

>trappings of that award ????


>if they are not present that that particular event, what's the problem with

>simply announcing the award and then holding the trappings of that award until

>the next event where they are present to physically receive them?


My lady and I were to receive our AoAs last year at an event we did not

attend (and had not planned to attend, as our poor horse could not pull the

wagon that far). Our local herald obtained the scrolls, and kept them a

secret from us. At the next event we did attend, he called us into court

before their Majesties Richard and Gladwen to receive them. My lady,

Jilleighanne of Lindisfarne, was so amazed at being called into court that

she nearly swooned at Gladwen's feet. Did our awards mean any less to us

because the date and place on the scrolls did not coincide with the date and

place we received them? Not a bit. We were pleased and honored to have

received recognition at all, and those beautifully painted scrolls are now

cherished possessions, wrong dates and places and all.





Subject: ANST - Refusing an Award?

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 99 08:22:23 MST

From: "C. L. Ward" <gunnora at bga.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


> Knowing he was not worthy of the honor to be

> conferred on him, the Honorable Man came into

> court, stood before the Crown, and said "Your

> Majesties, I am not worthy of this honor, do not

> deserve it, and will not accept it" (or words to that

> effect).


It would have been much better, and more polite, to have not kicked up a

fuss in court, but rather waited until afterwards and spoken to the Crown

privately.  This way the person could still resign the award, without

embarrassing the Crown, and since it would be much easier to explain the

situation in a more private setting, then one hasn't destroyed one's

chances of ever receiving another award.


If it were me, say, suddenly being offered an award I didn't feel I

deserved, I kind of think that I'd accept the award quietly -- because

obviously a bunch of my friends and the Crown think that I *do* deserve

that award.  Then I'd do my darnest to earn the award by my actions

afterwards, living up to what I had been bestowed with.


However, I have a note to add about those who don't want awards.  My dear

lady's ex went around loudly and publicly proclaiming that she wouldn't

accept any awards.  I haven't been able to determine whether or not she

told people that Damaris didn't want awards or not, but at any rate,

through contagion or misinformation people believed that Damaris, too, was

award-shy.  And it absolutely wasn't true! I'm sure that other situations

can arrive to tag someone with the "I don't ever want awards" label falsely

-- so if you have someone with this reputation in your group, ask them

directly.  If truly they don't want awards, they will tell you so. But if

what you've heard is misinformation, get the truth, and then TELL everybody

what the truth is.  I think misinformation along these lines has nixed more

awards ...


Gunnora Hallakarva, OL

Baroness to the Court of Ansteorra



Subject: Re: ANST - Refusing an Award?

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:48:38 MST

From: "Paul Mitchell" <pmitchel at flash.net>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


>If it were me, say, suddenly being offered an award I didn't feel I

>deserved, I kind of think that I'd accept the award quietly -- because

>obviously a bunch of my friends and the Crown think that I *do* deserve

>that award.  Then I'd do my darnest to earn the award by my actions

>afterwards, living up to what I had been bestowed with.


I'm reminded of Master Robin of Gilwell, whose stock answer

to protestations of unworthiness is:  "If you were going around

saying you _did_ deserve the award, and we didn't agree with you,

we'd ignore you then, too."


- Galen of Bristol



Subject: Re: ANST - Refusing an Award?

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:45:33 MST

From: "Casey&Coni" <weed at sage.net>

To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>


Reading this thread reminds me of an elegant example of an occasion where

someone refused an award and it *was* acceptable.


When Don Eule was called into court about two years ago he went hesitantly.

The Crown intended to bestow him the Iris of Merit (which was well-deserved,

I might add).  Before the herald spoke any words or he was told what award

he was being given, he politely asked the crown if he was being given an

award.  They replied that it was indeed why he was called forward and he

then begged them not to do so.  He explained that his lady love, Mistress

Ariella, was not present on that day and that it would mean so much for her

to see him recieve anything, regardless of what it was; would they please be

so kind as to give it at a future date (in two weeks, I think) if they still

deemed him worthy?


Needless to say, neither the Crown nor the crowd objected.


It's a bit different than the examples that have thus far been set forth,

but I think it's noteworthy enough to repeat.  *sniff*  (something must have

gotten in my eye)





Subject: Re: ANST - Refusing an Award?

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 99 15:18:19 MST

From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


> If it were me, say, suddenly being offered an award I didn't feel I

> deserved, I kind of think that I'd accept the award quietly -- because

> obviously a bunch of my friends and the Crown think that I *do* deserve

> that award.  Then I'd do my darnest to earn the award by my actions

> afterwards, living up to what I had been bestowed with.




This reminds me of one of the more enjoyable events during our reign.

We called a certain lovely young lady up in court and she stormed up

to the dais, disdaining any escorting arm or assistance up the stairs.

She plopped down onto the kneeling pillows and had an expression of

irritation and a bit of anger on her face. Hmmmm. She then muttered to

me "You'd better not be giving me an award!"


"Oohhhh?", sez I.

"Why not?"


"Because I don't DESERVE one!", was the angry response.



So then I said, "Don't you work with the children's activities?"

"But I LIKE kids!"


"Don't you work in the kitchens all the time?"

"But that's FUN!"


"Aren't you always doing set-up and clean up and haven't you been

doing this for years?"

"But it's what my friends are doing so I'm just having fun with them!"


I looked at the populace and asked if this was what was expected for an

AoA. Thankfully they responded with a rousing affirmative.


I turned back to her and told her that I was sorry but as King I had to

listen to the demands of my people and had her award read into law.

She was much meeker when I assisted her up and presented her to

the populace. During their cheers and applause she said in a tiny voice,

"This means I have to behave now?" to which I replied "And I do?"


This Lady was escorted back to her seat still protesting her unworthiness

but I do hope she did realize more of her worth to her group and to



Still, although we gave out many AoA's during our reign hers will always

be remembered.





Subject: Re: ANST - Awards

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:22:40 MST

From: Dr Tiomoid of Angle <tiomoid at yahoo.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


--- Trish McCurdy <ladyoftherose at hotmail.com> wrote:

> "My" reason is because of personal experiences and things I have

> witnessed. Someone else might feel differently though.


> "My" reasoning is that I have seen alot of people go to a friend and

> say "I  put you in for this award", and when it doesn't happen at

> that event, or sometimes even for a very long time, the person who

> was given that knowledge that they were nominated has some hurt

> feelings.


> Some people might take that knowledge and get the warm fuzzies

> knowing that another felt that they were worthy, and perhaps this

> might mean even more than the award itself.


> But others might take that knowledge and feel slighted if the

> recommendation wasn't acted on.


Serious concerns. But they raise two questions in my mind:


1. Does the person who is likely to feel slighted for not getting an

award just because they've been nominated for one really deserve an



2. Is it better to take the chance of a person who's been doing a lot

of work drops out because of no recognition of any kind just on the off

chance that they'd feel slighted if they were recommended for an award

and either didn't get it or got it only after a while?


> There is no rule against telling, I would just caution against it

> because of the way it might affect a person's feelings.  And there

> is something to be said for a suprised reaction, it often makes

> better pictures :)


I've always hated the surprise-party, Queen-for-a-Day impulse that

seems to permeat the awards process. Like a person who comes home to a

surprise birthday party when they had something else planned for that

evening, it puts people in an awkward position. I've always thought

that the notion, distressingly common in the SCA, that "getting good

pictures" justifies putting people on the spot that way is rather



Fra Tadhg Liath OFT

The Grumpiest Pelican





Subject: Re: ANST - Awards (long)

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:29:28 MST

From: marsha.greene at mpan.com

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


>--- Trish McCurdy <ladyoftherose at hotmail.com> wrote:

>> And most of all, don't tell the person your wrote about that you did

>> it. Let it be a suprise if it happens, and a confidence between you

>> and those you sent the recommendation to.


>Why? And especially why "most of all"?

>Fra Tadhg Liath OFT


I've done my share in recommending folks for awards, and find it's a

privilege to be able to do so.      But, have never told the 'candidate'

for the award that I had recommended them beforehand; for the same reasons

noted by others... what if they don't get the award?  No reason to cause

hurt feeling.    If unsure whether the candidate will be at court, it often

helps to gain the assistance of a member of their household or significant

other, to make sure they are on site and available to accept the award when

called, especially if you have a good idea they will get called.   Keep

those who know about the award being given down to a minimum... just as

much of a treat for those watching court as for the one getting the award.


But, there is certainly nothing wrong with telling the award recipient that

you recommended them, *After*  they got the award.  They feel special

getting the award from the crown, but often feel more special when they

know who in the local community supported the 'getting of it'.   Adds icing

to the cake!    And I get to feel like 'Santa Claus' when I see my

recommendations being fulfilled.  :->


Next topic:  refusing an award/avoiding court.   I read with interest the

earlier comments on refusing awards.   Over the years, I have heard several

folks say they avoid court because they did not want to be called, or they

would refuse the award if called.... primarily because they were at odds

with the seated Nobility or Crown.   It may not happen often, but it does

happen.  May I suggest to the folks avoiding court/refusing the award, that

the hand they are rejecting is not the one that is presenting the award,

but rather the folks that wrote the award recommendations.    Having been

Sable Scroll several times myself, I have found the the majority of the

awards the Crown/Nobility present are not initiated by the Crown/Nobility,

but rather by the populace.    Consider the *source* of the award, not

necessarily the *presentation* of it.


Get those pens ready and write or e-mail those award recommendations. Oh,

by the way, you know this event is coming more than 6 months in advance, as

a rule... please send the rec's no later than one month before the event.

Any later than that is causing more work for the staff, and may mean the

award is not given, as its too late to prepare.   Even two-weeks before the

event is tight.   The sooner the Crown can set the awards, the sooner the

Sable Scroll can have nice scrolls ready, and avoid the expense of sending

the awards through overnight delivery.


Baroness Hillary Rose Greenslade



Subject: ANST - Rambling about discussions of peerage, etc. (long)

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:15:02 MST

From: Michael Tucker <michaelt at neosoft.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


Unto my good and true fellow Ansteorrans,

Greetings from Michael Silverhands:


We've got quite a discussion group going here! Several related topics are being

passionately discussed on many levels: who are the Peers of Ansteorra? what

makes a Peer? should we recognize as Peers people who exhibit "Peer" qualities,

but don't fit the available Peerages? if so, should we change how we look at

the existing Peerages, or should we instead create a new one?


Although I don't agree with everything that's been said, I find the arguments to

be illuminating and thought provoking. Many (though, sadly, not all) have been

well thought out and carefully considered. If nothing else, they help me to

better understand how others feel about these issues, and to examine more

closely how _I_ do. Whether any policies are changed as a result of these

discussions, I think they are worthwhile - even the strongly negative points

of view, which (again, if nothing else) serve to remind us that there's always

another side to consider.


All of that being said, after some thought I've decided to throw in my two cents

on some of those subjects. Warning: this message rambles a lot. Feel free to

click "Next" or "Delete" now if you're not interested in my point of view,

or if you've grown weary of the whole discussion.


I think my SCA experience has brought me to a place where I can appreciate

what's been said on both sides of this whole issue. I've been playing for about

18 years, if you count from my first event. But I still remember what it was

like to be new. For my first several years, I came to events with nothing more

than the garb on my back and a cup to drink from. I wasn't very "clued in" to

how to prepare for an event, but that was ok because I had found many friends

who treated me like part of their family. It was a wonderful feeling. Today,

Neassa and I count ourselves lucky if we don't need a trailer to haul our stuff

to an event. The shoe is on the other foot, but I haven't forgotten what it

was like before.


I've got plenty of awards and titles, most of them unsought after. I've tended

to pitch in and work at events, and hold offices when they come empty. It

happens that I've been recognized for my work (although that doesn't

automatically follow), and I've got a slew of service awards up to and including

the Star of Merit. I've also enjoyed bardic pursuits, coming from a lifetime

of interest in music and the performing arts. My efforts have been recognized

(thank you!), and I hold a Thistle and an Iris of Merit. I've fought, both

tournament and war, both rattan and (just starting) rapier. In a cabinet in my

home there's a little mug won in a small tournament along the way - one of my

proudest and most surprising achievements in the SCA. Neassa and I were chosen

to be the Crown's representative to Stargate (and the Barony's voice to the

Crown), and have served as Baron/ess for over 4 years.


So you might as well lump me in with the folks who've got lots of awards.


However, I don't have a Peerage and perhaps never will. I love music and the

performing arts, but I have so _many_ interests that I don't give that _one_ the

kind of energy that, say, a Laurel such as Avatar of Catsprey or Samuel Piper

has done. I just play my instruments, and sing my songs, and tell my stories.

It's _fun_ and _rewarding_ in and of itself. I also tend to work a lot. But,

again, if I look at the level of work put out by most Pelicans, I realize that

I'm spread a little thin to be seen as really focused on work. But that's ok,

too. I'm happy to do the work; usually there's some "instant gratification" from

seeing a job done, and done well. That is, in and of itself, a reward for the

work. I enjoy fighting, but since I tore up my knees it's painful and difficult

for me. I will likely never be able to sustain the level of fighting required

for Knighthood (or even a Centurion or White Scarf). But, again, that's ok. I

have fun, I feel that I give as well as I get, and I learn a lot about our

history and myself by doing it.


So you might as well count my voice among the "non-Peers", too.


I do what I do, because I love doing it. The awards are a "bonus".


The titles and awards are _nice_, don't get me wrong! Especially the recognition

of my love for music - that Thistle and Iris mean a lot to me. Not the little

"dangly" that I wear (which has _no_ value outside our world of make-believe),

but the fact that a bunch of my friends and people I respect went to a lot of

trouble to tell me, publicly, that they thought I'd accomplished something. But

the awards don't, in and of themselves, _define_ who I am. At best, I'd say

they _reflect_ some aspects of who I am.


Among the people who know me, I think I command a certain level of respect in my

various pursuits. If the subject is the performing arts, those who know me

acknowledge that I'm pretty knowledgeable in that subject. If there's work to be

done, those who know me know that all they have to do is let me know it needs

doing, and I'll most likely either help take care of it or help find someone who

will. When I armor up, those who know me accord me a (modest) level of respect

on the field. I'm not much threat to our seasoned warriors, but on the other

hand they are careful not to get careless around me. Whether or not any _words_

of praise are exchanged, it's very gratifying to be accorded this kind of

respect by people's _actions_. This respect comes _regardless_ of awards.


Still, an award serves at least two (three, in the case of a Peerage) useful



1) (most important) It's a public accolade, a validation of who you are and

what you do, from some people whose opinions might matter to you. As such, it's

encouragement to keep doing what you do, and an incentive for others to follow

suit. You could accomplish the same thing with something other than an official

award, but the award structure provides a handy means to that end.


2) The award's insignia serves as a "letter of introduction" to people who don't

know you. If I choose to wear my Star or Iris ribbon, someone who knows what

they mean can suppose (safely or not *grin*) that I know something about the

arts, and service. Of course, few outside Ansteorra would know what those

little ribbons signify.


3) A Peerage is both of the above things, but it is also your letter of

admission to the Circle for conducting the business of the Order. It is also

recognized throughout the Society. Wherever you go, if you see a white belt

on someone you can suppose (again, rightly or not *grin*) that they have

achieved mastery of the martial aspects of our Society.


HOWEVER, COMMA: I said that receiving an award meant a lot to me because it was

a public validation from people I care about. That coin has two sides. If you

work your tail off, or swing a hot stick, or consistently strive for excellence

in the arts, and you _don't_ get the recognition, guess what? That says, rightly

or not, that you are _not_ validated by those same people whose opinions might

matter to you. It says, intentionally or not, justified or not: "You are not



That applies to Peerage just as much as it does to an Award of Arms. If you see

others being publicly recognized for their contributions to the Society while

you are not, it's easy to become discouraged. If there's someone you can talk

to, you might ask them what you aren't doing that you ought to be, or what you

_are_ doing that you're doing wrong. All too often, though, folks just get tired

of trying and find something else to do. Yes, "the journey is the reward", but

it hurts to be overlooked when awards are being handed out. Sure, you can shrug

it off to a certain extent. After all, _you_ know that you're worthy. But after

a while, human nature being what it is, you begin to resent the awards being

received by others.


So, awards withheld can easily come to _represent_ goals not yet attained. I

think, more than anything else, awards represent the _public recognition_ of

you and your efforts. Deny the award, and you are (in effect) denying the

recognition, and (by inference) putting someone down. So, again: the award

is not _itself_ the goal, but it _represents_ the goal (recognition).


Consider school: How would you feel if you made an "A" on an exam? Pretty good,

huh? But other than your own internal pride in your accomplishment, it's not

really a big deal. How you do in your class every day will actually have a

bigger impact. If you consistently seem to know what you're talking about, the

people who've had a class with you or studied with you will start turning to you

for help in the subject. That kind of respect is wonderful, but you have to

earn it over a long period of time.


Now, how about if your teacher read aloud the names of all the star students,

and had them stand up for a round of applause? That would feel _great_, wouldn't

it? You'd feel included in a wonderful experience. Maybe... What if you aren't

named, but you're pretty sure you've done as well on the exams, and contributed

as much in the discussions, as some of the people who _are_ named? That would

feel _awful_. You'd feel cheated, and unfairly excluded. You'd be torn between

asking the teacher if there's been some mistake, or just quietly wondering

what you did wrong. (After all, we aren't _supposed_ to be vain and

self-aggrandizing. There's a fine line between "self-confidence" and "vanity".)

On the other hand, your friends might ask on your behalf why you weren't



And I think that's the whole point that started all these discussions in the

first place. Some of the folks in the Society are doing wonderful things, but

they aren't being considered when we start naming the "star students". Some of

us see this exclusion taking place, and wonder whether it's a problem; and

if so, how to go about solving it.


Awards and titles are a way of congratulating people, yes. But they're also a

way of both _including_ and _excluding_ people. Peerage is the ultimate example

of this. As long as we give _any_ awards in the Society, I think it's important

to give them as _fairly_ as possible, and as _inclusively_ as possible.





Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:05:54 MST

From: jhartel <jhartel at net-link.net>

Subject: Re: ANST - What is a Peer?

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


Bob Dewart wrote

> While anyone can make award recommendations, most groups don't have anyone

> who keep track of who has what and what folks have been doing. How many

> times have you been surprized to discover that so n so didn't have the award

> you thought for a long time they did?


This can be EASILY rectified.  As herald for Tempio several years ago I started

a system that worked great.  Each person who has submitted a name/device from

your group should have a folder in the herald's box.   I organized ours in

manilla folders.  On the top tab was the person's name.  Insides were there

submissions.  On the front of the folder I had it set up like this:

Name passed______________

Device passed______________



In the lined spaces I put the date the item had passed or was given. As for the

awards I simply added them to the front as they were given  In the case of

Thistles I also put WHAT it was for.

For those who were new to the group and did not submit name/device through our

office I made a folder for them anyway with al the info on the front as well.

This also helped out greatly in doing an OP for the group. Now for a HUGE group

like Stargate they might want to have a person whose sole job is keeping up on



Also, my  method was used before I had aa computer.  For anyone who has a

computer this would be the way to go.  It would take up less physical space.  Of

course hard copy folders won't get erased  when a virus or major computer glitch



At first it may take a while to do but *I* think it was worth it. Many times

someone would ask if So n So had an award.  I could quickly check it out and get

back to the person asking.  I also kept a copy of the award rec. in that folder

for future use if needed.  If So n SO was passed over for an award then on the

second recommendation I/whoever was writing the rec. could inform the Crown that

this person had been recommended at _______________ before.





Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:17:10 MST

From: dssweet at okstate.edu

Subject: Re: ANST - What is a Peer?

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


Moriel*** wrote:


>This also helped out greatly in doing an OP for the group. Now for a HUGE group

>like Stargate they might want to have a person whose sole job is keeping up on



Even for smaller groups, having a dedicated OP deputy is a good thing. I've

been keeping the OP for Mooneschadoweshire for, well, probably about 10

years now on computer. Once started, it is very easy to update it. Another

important item to consider, is to periodically PUBLISH the local OP/list of

awards in the local newsletter, especially about a month or two before the

local group's big event.  It's worked well for Mooneschadoweshire, at

least. (In fact, I actually keep two lists: a comprehensive list that

includes everyone that has received an award while living here, and a

*currently*active* list that deletes out those people who have moved away,

stopped playing or died. Considering how many people have played their way

through Mooneschadowe, it's the *only* way to keep the size of the list

smaller and more managable.)





Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:54:29 GMT

From: "Bonne of Traquair" <oftraquair at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Recognition


>In Atlantia, cooks are almost always brought out to receive the

>populace's recognition {usually at the most mission-critical time in the

>kitchen, but who's going to tell the King you'd rather do it 5 minutes



In my observation, too often the high table toasts the cook and staff and

the populace applauds while someone goes to tell the staff, who may or may

not make it to the doorway before the populace and high table have turned

their attention away from toasting. In my case, I had word the Baron wanted

to talk to me, and when I went out the door I was 'vivat'-ed so quickly that

I never even went up the aisle in my confusion, much less gathered my staff.

  Oh well.


On the other hand, I have seen more than once the message sent back to high

table that the cook and staff will come out as soon as possible because of

work. Then when they come out when ready, the whole idea works better

because they are all out before the new announcment is made and the

applause/vivats start. Sometimes the head cook even takes the opportunity to

make some public thank you's of their own once they are up there.


Something to be very careful of: At a feast at which I was assisting, the

call-out was made and while the cook and her staff (incl. me) were in the

hall, Their Excellencies took the opportunity to give me an award because I

had missed court which resulted in the head cook's feeling as if she wasn't

recognized (it was her first feast).  The impression was left that I had

been cook, and that doing such was one of the reasons for the award. Either

they never actually said the head cooks name before starting the thing with

me, or it wasn't heard, or Their Excellencies indeed thought I was the head

cook, or something.  I'm not sure.  Anyway, those of you with pointy hats,

if you do such a thing, make sure to clearly differentiate between the call

out vs. the quick court.  Or save the award for later--I've been called to

court twice and both times lacked the prescence of mind to remove my dirty






From: jari.james at rook.wa.com (Jari James)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re:'AoA isn't important'

Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 08:08:00 GMT


-=> Quoting Bjm10 at cornell.edu (bryan to All <=-

> Hello, again.  I have a question about membership.  Do you have to be a paid

> member for the crown to grant you an AoA?  I'm very interested in working

> towards one, but I'm too poor to afford formal membership.


To the Good Gentle who asked about AoA's and memberships, I send this

reply. We here in An Tir look at a person's work and worth... not

their pocketbook.  I can not speak for other lands. I do not know

their ways.


B(> First, don't sweat the AoA.  It isn't important.  Second, the

B(> condition varies from kingdom to kingdom.


To the Gentleman who wrote the above reply, I say:


Okay... it may not be important to you but it is inexcusable of you to

decide what may be of import to another.


Have you ever sat as Sovereign of a Kingdom?  As a Landed Coronet?  I can

say that one of the greatest pleasures I had during my 8+ year tenure as

Founding Baroness was to see those who had enriched their Branch and

Kingdom with their good works to be brought before the assembled Court,

be it Royal or Coronet, and be thanked publically for all that they

have done.  Have you ever seen the look of amazement and joy on a person's

face when they are called forward in Court? Have you ever felt the warmth

of their trembleing hands as you hold them, thanking them for all that

they have done?  Have you ever watched the play of emotions across

their face as they hear the populace cry out their name in recognition

of the gift of service that they had freely given to one an all?

If you can awnser 'yes' to any of those questions and still have your

attitude, I can but hope that you are no longer in any of those positions.


If you say 'No' to any of these, I say you have no knowledge of the

human condition [investigate 'Maslow's Need Hierarchy' for an idea of

basic physio-emotional interactions and requirements] or compassion for

those who have opinions/ideas/belief structures other than your own.


Having spent over 25+ years in Critical Care Medicine [ER, ICU, CCU,

OR-Anesthesia] in both the civilian and military venues [Reserve USA,

Pursian Gulf] I've leaned much about what makes folks tick.  And

no where in any text, lecture or class has anyone said that getting

'warm fuzzies' was a bad thing.  It's okay for squires to say they're

'training to be a Knight some day', why not others?  Why shouldn't

one hope to be given the Laurel oneday if they are skilled?  I had hoped

for years that I might be worthy of the Pelican, but my main concern was

'Is what I'm doing making a difference for the good?  Has one life found

a moment of ease in this overly troubled world by my efforts?'.


If this Good Gentle feels that earning her AoA is a goal to strive for,

a visable validation that her life can aid the lives of others, what

is the harm in that? I will not gainsay her.  Different people recieve

validation in different ways.  I would give advice to her if she asked.

I would give my opinions to her if asked. But she will know that these

things come from me as just that: 'My opinions' and not the opinions of

my Kingdom, my Order or the Society as a whole.  Your general statements

tend to convey the sense that your opinions are somehow reflective of

the majority of people within the Society.  This is a misleading and

inappropriate activity.


You are most welcome to your own opinions and attitudes not matter if

I agree with them or not.  I spent 20+ years in the military [active

and reserve] to make sure that everyone, even people I don't like,

have the right to think and speak as they see fit.


Just don't imply that you speak for the rest of us.  We'll do well

on our own.


Dame Rowan, OP

Baroness Blatha an Oir


Baroness to the Crown of

    the Sable Lion of An Tir



Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] newcomer thanks

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:04:38 -0600

From: "Christie Ward" <val_org at hotmail.com>

To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>


>a. almost exclusively, a knight in the time period

>which the SCA recreates, had to own a horse and had to

>be able to field that horse - it was one of the

>primary distinguishing characteristics of being a

>knight -


Pshaw.  If you look at the Germanic cultures, the hskarlar, drengr or egn

were the functional equivalents of High Medieval knights, and they

specifically were not horse-warriors -- look at the heroic poetry and you

see stuff along the lines of:


2 Het a hyssa hwne    hors forltan,

  He bade every warrior then to leave his horse,


3 feor afysan,    and for gangan,

  drive them far away and go forth,


4 hicgan to handum    and to hige godum.

  trusting to his hand-strength and to good courage.




17 –a r Byrhtno ongan    beornas trymian,

   There Byrhtnoth at once exhorted his men,


18 rad and rdde,    rincum thte

   rode among them and advised, taught the warriors


19 hu hi sceoldon standan    and one stede healdan

   how they should stand and hold their station


20 and bd t hyra randas    rihte heoldon

   and bade that their round-shields be held upright


21 fste mid folman,    and ne forhtedon na.

   firmly in their fists, and to fear nothing.


22 a he hfde t folc    fgere getrymmed,

   When he had nobly encouraged that folk,


23 he lihte a mid leodon    r him leofost ws,

   he alighted among his people where he was most loved;


24 r he his heorwerod    holdost wiste.

   there were his hearth-retainers who were most loyal.


(Battle of Maldon, http://www.vikinganswerlady.org/Maldon.htm)


This doesn't even begin to take into account the later medieval and

Renaissance practice of awarding knighthoods for service of various sorts,

which gets discussed and documented every time the discussion cranks up

about making all the peerages "knighthoods" and distinguishing them by their

names and trappings alone -- go to the Rialto and look at the archives if

you're interested in all of that.


Being a horse warrior was perhaps the most central and distinguishing

characteristic of the knight in our period, but it was not universal by any



Actually, SCA knighthood most closely resembles the old Germanic model,

right down to the duties, oaths, and size of the warbands - see

http://www.vikinganswerlady.org/oaths.htm for details.


>b. Also, Many have witnessed some enter the crown

>tournaments who do not have the financial means or

>time , etc. to fulfill the obligations required and

>yet they are allowed to participate by giving their

>word that they do.


This is a type of deception that completely punishes the offender.  If such

a person did win, then the expenses routinely borne by the Crown will

destroy their pocketbook.  This isn't a problem that affects anyone except

the offender.


It's not a major calamady if the Crown can't go to an event every single

weekend during their reign, either.  We've gotten spoiled by the fact that

recent Crowns (recent from my view as having been in the SCA 20 years) do

travel a lot.  If you ask an old-timer, you will find that in Ansteorra's

early days, when were still a part of Atenveldt, *years* could go by when no

one ever SAW the Crown inside the territorial borders. Ansteorra's Western

Region still knows what that feels like!


What happens if the Crown doesn't travel in such a case is that the Crown

has to rely more on the populace, peers, nobility, and officers for award

recommendations and problem-solving.  Awards can be approved by the Crown,

and They can delegate members of Their nobility to distribute them.  I have

in fact seen the Crown even ask Court Baron/esses to handle this duty for

Them in some cases, and of course the Landed Baron/esses can certainly serve

in this capacity.


So, it's a non-problem.  If a person is such a doofus that they will take

the risk of fighting and winning when there is no way that they can afford

to hold the office, it's their mundane wrack and ruination in a financial

sense that punishes them.  The rest of the kingdom goes on as always, with

maybe a little less High Ceremony if the Crown can't afford to travel

extensively.  Think of it as good practice for the rest of us in doing cool

persona things, for the nobility in holding their own local courts and doing

cool things that way as well.


>Some of these participants AND

>OTHERS have even used their influence to get

>themselves and their friends recognition (awards)

>which have not been earned. Where is the HONOR AND

>NOBILITY in this? And why is there not a means to both

>stop and rectify these situations when they arise?


I think you have a profound lack of understanding of how the awards system

works in the SCA in general and in Ansteorra specifically.


No Crown, no matter how widely travelled, wise, and good-hearted they may

be, can know personally of the virtues or lack thereof of all Their populace

members.  As a result, the Crown relies EXTENSIVELY on the recommendations

of Their landed nobility, Their peers, and letters from members of the

populace in determining which awards will or will not be granted.


If you're sitting in your living room 500 miles away from a given group, and

you have in hand 15 letters of reccomendation telling you in glowing detail

how wonderful Person X is and why Person X should be given Award Y, as Crown

you are probably going to take the word of all these fine, upstanding

subjects who have been so impressed by Person X that they have taken the

time to write you and tell you so in detail.


Conversely, it doesn't matter if Person Z, also 500 miles away, is

absolutely authentic in every detail of dress, equipment, comportment, is a

God-like artisan, a paragon of martial skill on the field, and labors

thousands of hours monthly performing service to their local group *if the

Crown doesn't hear about it*.  The Crown won't know to give them Award Y if

They have not personally seen all this work *unless someone writes and

recommends that the award be given*.


And that's just skimming the surface - there are other reasons why someone

might not get an award that I'll talk about in a second.


Meanwhile, if you see someone going without an award that you think that

they deserve, have you, personally, written the Crown yourself and told Them

all about how wonderful this person is?  And when you do so, you need to

make sure that include details - what is the person's full name, exactly

what have they been doing, for how long they have been doing it, and where

they've been doing it - so that the Crown can see exactly why you believe

that the person should have that award.  And there is nothing stopping you

from also encouraging others in the area to do likewise. Even if it is your

first day in the SCA, you have the right, honor, and priviledge of being

able to send recommendation letters to the Crown.


OK, I also mentioned that there are other reasons why a person might not get

an award.  I'm going to take the example of a peerage, but these thoughts

apply in many ways to all awards.


In the Laurels Circle, we discuss candidates for the Laurel.  There is not a

cookbook recipe for "what is a Laurel", and SCA law and custom provide only

extremely general guidelines. Every Laurel in the Circle has their own set

of things that they look for in a candidate.  In general, (and from my point

of view, obviously) the person should be practicing their art at the same

level as the rest of the Laurels -- not necessarily in the level of purely

artistic achievement, but they should be doing work with solid craftsmanship

(including finishing details) and they should be researching what they do

and be able to document this research at least to the level of standard A&S

documentation. This is along the same lines of the other peerages -- the

candidate should excel in the specific field of endeavor along the same

lines as the existing members of that Circle, or else they are not the

"peer" of the others in the mundane sense of the word.  The second

requirement for a peerage is that the person *be* a peer (in the SCA sense

of the word) in terms of maturity, problem-solving, courtesy and so forth --

which means that it is possible for a kick-ass artisan to NOT be made a

Laurel, for instance, if they are complete jerk who sucks up to the Laurels

but tramples all over the populace or has other major behavioral



The next facet to consider is the Crown - 100% of the Laurels may want a

specific artisan elevated to the Laurel, but if the Crown doesn't agree, it

won't happen, period.  At least not until there's a new Crown who may see

the matter differently.  And the converse is true - the Circle may have a

100% unanimous NO vote on a person, and the Crown may choose to make them a

Laurel (or Knight, or Pelican, etc.) anyway.  It's not a good idea for a

Crown to disregard their Circles in this way, but it is their RIGHT to do

so, and the Crown can and does ignore the opinion of their Peerage Circles

on occasion.


How this applies to the AoA and Grant-level awards is that while you may see

Person Z doing all this cool stuff, you may not be aware that they have some

major behavioral issues of which the Crown, officers, peers, nobility etc.

have observed, and that they are not being given an award because of these



But really, the most common reason why someone doesn't get an award is just

that the Crown for whatever reason has no idea that the person needs one.

You have the power to rectify this - write the Crown yourself, and encourage

others to do so as well.


And really - having awards doesn't make you have a better real-world job,

doesn't count in St. Peter's Ledger Books at the Pearly Gates, doesn't make

you better-looking, etc.  What awards mean, at all levels, is "this person

is doing cool things, and their friends and associates noticed and told the

Crown about it."  It's a special feeling to get an award.  But what makes it

special is that the people who recommended you for it thought you were doing

cool stuff.  Having an award does not give you one iota of respect that you

have not already earned on your own.  It does make you feel good - because

it means that people do respect you and your accomplishments.




Who has cool friends who thought I was doing a lot of cool things.  And I'm

pleased that they noticed.



From: L T <ldeerslayer at yahoo.com>

Date: Fri Oct 31, 2003  12:51:18 PM US/Central

To: kim at entelesoft.com, "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."

<ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] New Award Ideas


muriel at entelesoft.com wrote:

(good point deleted for brevity)


> The primary difference between an award and largess is that awards have

> rules. I guess the moral of this story is: Don't forget largess. Its

> really isn't less special than awards, just different.


I would beg to differ...awards have rights and responsibilities

attached...whereas largess is a gift with no rights or



The value of either is detemined by the giver and the recipient...


Lorraine DeerSlayer



From: Elizabeth Ellis <weavedog91 at sbcglobal.net>

Date: February 24, 2007 9:59:26 PM CST

To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] To title or not to title


I learned my lesson about awards and associated titles/regalia a long time ago. Here's the story: After many years of playing in the SCA I recieved an Iris; however, because I am a bit on the shy and retiring side I would not wear it because I thought it was a form of self bragging and was afraid it would draw too much attention.  Boy did that backfire in embarrassing ways! I ended up  getting gently reprimanded for not wearing a ribbon because the Crown later saw some of my work and spent some time investigating whether I'd been recognized for it.  They were not especially happy to learn that I'd already received the award for two reasons - by not wearing the emblem it gave the appearance of not valuing the award, and it wasted time the Crown could have spent investigating the other worthy people.  This perspective made perfect sense once it was presented to me.  As a consequence, I believe it applies to monikers as well.


  Mistress Corrinne



Date: February 25, 2007 11:31:43 AM CST

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] To title or not to title


Hi, Corrinne. :-)


While I understand your perspective I don't think it is the only way to

look at this. Finding out what awards someone has should only take a

moment of looking through the OP. The Crown has heralds who should be

pretty good at that.


There are plenty of reasons to leave off an award. For example:

- Persona. For example, if someone has a monk persona it will look odd

for them to be wearing a pile of ribbons and trinkets. If I am playing a

peasant alternate persona he certainly would not be wearing any awards.

- Costume. For example, many middle eastern costumes will be plain

without ornamentation, or Western European ornamentation may simply look

strange on it. Sometimes you can substitute something culture specific

(like awards done as mons on a komono) and sometime you cannot (like a

White Scarf on an aba).

- Stealth. There may be times when you want to appear in some group

where you are not known and get the perspective of a newer or lower

ranked person. In my travels I sometimes learn a lot about other

kingdoms and groups I would never know if I showed up as Baron, WSA,  


- Activities. If I am working in the kitchen I don't want to splatter

whatever on my White Sarf and Iris. On the melee field I don't need a

bunch of trinkets dangling from my clothes to get knocked off. At a

forge I just don't need to be wearing finery or decorations at all.


If we stop playing persona, wearing authentic costume, trying to

understand what a new comer would encounter, fighting, working in the

kitchen and doing crafts we won't have much to give awards for  

anyway. :-)


Claire reminds me that these exceptions are not the same a *never*

wearing your awards. They are practical considerations, not meant to

deny or hide (except stealth -- and that is temporary) the fact that you

have the award.


Christian Dor with helpful comments from Claire Shayhan



From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>

Date: February 25, 2007 1:40:15 PM CST

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] To title or not to title


>  Oh I agree completely with what you've written below, and have

> done most of them at one time or another for the same reasons. As

> for the situation I mentioned, this was years ago (as in the era

> before most people had computers), so the OP was not as easy to

> check then as it is now.  As to why a paper copy was not first

> reviewed to see what I had, I don't know - the reasons given below

> for the Crown's displeasure are the very ones I was presented with  

> at the time.


And on the third hand, there's at least a 50/50 chance that the Crown

is going to be thinking about giving someone Award X at an event,

when they won't have ready access to either a computer or a paper

copy of the OP.


I've been in any number of Pelican (or White Scarf) meetings where

someone gets brought up, and the consensus is that they're not ready

for the Pelican, but how about a Star of Merit... or do they already  

have one?


          -Tivar Moondragon



From: "Vicky Eisenstadt" <alysounJ at gmail.com>

Date: June 22, 2008 7:18:02 AM CDT

To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Re: Pay to Play--- Oh what a horrific thought!!!


I agree with being a paid member to receive awards. Generally, this

has never been a problem, because a person who is committed enough to

the SCA, either through fighting, the arts or service, or all three,

to have come to the attention of the Crown, is *almost always* a paid

member. Interestingly enough, in Trimaris, we run into the *opposite*

problem - where people let their memberships lapse *on purpose* so

that they CAN'T receive awards.


True story! A former clan chieftan of FarFlung had, in the opinion of

his Crown, earned his AoA. Somehow, the chieftan got wind of this

development and did not renew his membership, specifically so the

Crown could NOT give him his AoA. This is not the only example of

this. What happened to the chieftan, you ask? We went behind his

back and renewed his membership FOR him. He got his AoA. NEVER

forgave us. :)




Alysoun Jeuneterre,

paid member since 1976 (brief interruption caused by burnout in early '80s)


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