waterbearing-msg – 8/23/06
Comments and suggestions for waterbearing and organizing waterbearing for fighters at SCA tournaments and melees. Water and beverage distribution at events.
NOTE: See also the files: On-Rehydration-art, waterbearing-art, WB-Checklist-art, event-ideas-msg, evnt-stewards-msg, demos-msg, privvies-msg, evnt-stwd-cltn-art, tourn-ideas-msg, marshalling-msg, melee-tactics-art.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:11:14 MST
From: MGreene at mpan.com
Subject: ANST - Waterbearer supplies
To: <giovanna51 at yahoo.com>, ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Lady Giovanna Lena Caronna inquired:
Also, if anyone has access to the flexible line that goes into the gallon milk
jugs for water-bearing. I would greatly appreciate the donation. <snip>
I believe what Lady Giovanna is referring to the *food-grade* polyvinyl hose.
With summer is coming, this is a good time for Waterbearer reminders. Tubing can be foundrolled in boxes, in the plumbing section of most hardware stores and comes in various thickness's. It's used to connect hoses between refrigeration units and soda machines.
Waterbearers have found the 3/8th in. thickness to work best for most fighter helmets. Some have used fish tank hoses in past, but they tend to collapse on use. Be sure to purchase the clear vinyl instead of the stiffer white vinyl. The hose can be reused several times if cleaned in hot water and soaked in Clorox bleach, and rinsed again thoroughly .
You can also buy tubing wholesale from distributors, but you have to purchase the whole box or more, and must have a sales tax id number. But, it can be done.
Few years ago, kingdoms started switching to the bottle pop-tops for our 2-liter containers, for sanitation reasons. I save mine off the tops of water bottles purchases at store, clean them and pass them along to waterbearers. But, some fighter helmets are not designed with a large opening to squirt the water through, so those fighters wish to continue using the water hoses; anything to get water.
During these summer months, populace, please be sure to save and clean your water & milk gallon and 2-liter soda bottles. Also, save your water pop-tops from water and sport drinks, clean them as well. Donate these items to your branch Waterbearers. It will ensure there are plenty of supplies for all our hot Ansteorran events.
Thanks, Mistress Hillary Greenslade
(former Kingdom Waterbearer, with the grey hairs and bad back to prove it!)
To: spca-wascaerfrig at egroups.com
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:00:04 EDT
From: PBLoomis at aol.com
Subject: Re: [spca-wascaerfrig] Can anyone help me?
In a message dated 4/17/00 00:13:15 EST, duchessa at juno.com writes:
> How are the water jugs configured/made for the fighters to drink on
> the field while keeping some sort of infection control? I plan on helping
> waterbear at Baron"s War next month but I need the water jugs.
Proper ones are squirt bottles made by Nalgene, where you squeeze
the bottle to eject a thin stream. I cannot get them at a sports store.
Think you have to go to a chemistry lab supply house.
Scotti
To: spca-wascaerfrig at egroups.com
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:20:29 EDT
From: Elysant at aol.com
Subject: Re: [spca-wascaerfrig] Can anyone help me?
> > Hi, How are the water jugs configured/made for the fighters to drink on
> > the field while keeping some sort of infection control? I plan on helping
> > waterbare at Baron"s War next month but I need the water jugs.
(snip)
> I recently got several messages detailing how they currently are
> requesting water bearer bottles be constructed in Ansteorra.
(snip)
I am a waterbearerer for ConFed and served as such last year at Pennsic.
We picked up the bottles (which were pre-filled for us) from the pick-up
point on the field. 2 liter waterbottles were used. I do not know if they
were rinsed with anything prior to filling.
On the field, we inserted a long piece of plastic bendable tubing into the
bottle, and in this way could insert the end of it through the front face
guard grill of the fighters so they could drink. It isn't as far as I've
seen standard practice to change these "straws" between fighters. We also
added "Gatorade" to some of the bottles so the fighters had a choice of
beverage.
Some of the bottles were only used for wetting rags for the fighters to cool
themselves down with. Such bottles could be differentiated from those with
water to drink by a coloured tape on the handle Also, bottled water could
be used if you're worried the water put into the bottles from a faucet might
be tainted or tastes nasty, or if you are unsure that the bottles have been
rinsed out adequately.
Elysant
From: "Lord Oakrock©" <lordoakrock at netscape.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: 28 Sep 2001 22:24:02 GMT
Beth
They use clear plastic tubing. About 1/4" interior dia. Then drill a hole
in the cap the same size as the outer dia. You can find this type of tubing
at an aquarium store and some large auto supply stores. It would be used in
RV water systems or large fish tanks.
James
"Beth" <steelspirit at earthlink.net> wrote
> A number of years ago (looking at the calendar it shows eight
> years...ugh), I lived in Atenveldt and attended Estrella X. At that war
> I saw the water bearers with bottles that had been made from 2-liter
> bottles and tubing of some kind. Now that mundane life has settled
> enough to permit me to return to the current middle ages, I find my
> house going through several 3-liter bottles (things bigger in texas I
> guess ;) ). I would like to convert these into the type of bottles that
> I saw at the war, but have as yet not been able to find info on doing
> this. I want to be sure that the tubing can be secured to the hole that
> would be put in the center of the cover, but it must remain safe for the
> fighters to drink the water from.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Beth
From: "Lord Oakrock©" <jmenotti at cryobank.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: 28 Sep 2001 23:32:06 GMT
Some put a couple of raps of duct tape above the cape to keep it from being
pushed to far in but not under the cap. They all pull out if you drop the
bottle. As long as you make the hole close to or the same as the outer
diameter of the tubing it will stay put. Some of the fabric bags have
Velcro on the shoulder strap the holds the tubs up and lessen the chance
they would get in the dirt. I have seen Velcro on the tube and it raped
around the tube and sewn on the strap.
These are all observations from inside a helm, in between battles. the
product is simple but always appreciated.
From: Judith M Phillips <jmp64 at cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 00:51:44 GMT
On Fri, 28 Sep 2001 21:28:28 GMT, Beth <steelspirit at earthlink.net> wrote:
> A number of years ago (looking at the calendar it shows eight
> years...ugh), I lived in Atenveldt and attended Estrella X. At that war
> I saw the water bearers with bottles that had been made from 2-liter
> bottles and tubing of some kind. Now that mundane life has settled
> enough to permit me to return to the current middle ages, I find my
> house going through several 3-liter bottles (things bigger in texas I
> guess ;) ). I would like to convert these into the type of bottles that
> I saw at the war, but have as yet not been able to find info on doing
> this. I want to be sure that the tubing can be secured to the hole that
> would be put in the center of the cover, but it must remain safe for the
> fighters to drink the water from.
It's not quite what you're asking about, but one gallon jugs work as well; the tubing can be threaded down into the handle. It stays pretty stable.
Adelais
From: "Dennis O'Connor" <dmoc at primenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:04:43 -0700
I've water-born with the 2 2-liter bottles (one water, one dilute Gatorade)
and I'm not sure 3-liters would be a good choice, might be too
much bulk and/or weight. But you can try.
A sling that goes over the neck and hangs down with a pocket
for a bottle on each side is a handy thing for this work, BTW.
Easy to make too, just sew together 3 cloth rectangles.
--
Dennis O'Connor dmoc at primenet.com
We don't become a rabid dog to destroy a rabid dog.
From: "Sally Burnell" <sburnell at raex.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:39:50 -0400
There was some talk this past Pennsic of developing what they were
calling "non-contact" water-bearing, so there are apparently some changes in
store for how we are going to do it. I guess there have been some concerns
about some illnesses which could be passed by several thousand people all
drinking out of the same bottle (even though we use these plastic tubes
stuck down into the bottles), such as Hepatitis, Meningitis and other stuff.
At Pennsic, when we go to get refills for our bottles, we take those
plastic tubes out and put them in a disinfecting solution and then get fresh
bottles with freshly disinfected tubes in them. Still, the Chirurgeonate did
express some concern about certain illnesses which could theoretically be
passed, so I think there is something in the works to make water-bearing
less contact oriented.
At any rate, what we've been doing for so long now is to take plastic
gallon jugs and fill them with water or a 50-50 solution of water and
gatorade, and then stick plastic tubing down inside the handle to make it
easier for fighters to be able to get a swig of fluid through their helms.
Seems to work just fine, and honestly, I don't know where they get that
plastic tubing stuff.
THLady Saradwen Ariandalen
Marche of Gwyntarian
(Akron/Kent, OH)
Midrealm
From: db <deadmonk at hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:13:20 -0700
There is a specific type of silicone adhesive available for aquarium use made by
GE and available at most larger hardware stores.. It seems that some expensive
exotic fish are _very_ touchy when it comes to such things (far more so than
humans). I would have no qualms about drinking from a hose glued into a bottle
with that. Of course, you would have to let it dry for a few days first to get
all traces of the solvent out of it.
db
From: db <deadmonk at hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:21:38 -0700
My suggestion from some time back for sanitary water tubes is to have a plastic
tube that is just the right size for a regular drinking straw to fit tightly
into. Each fighter gets a drink from a new straw, the old one gets tossed into a
bag. If plastic straws are used, they can be disinfected in bleach water and
reused. If paper is used, it is biodegradable. For the particularly squeamish, a
simple one way valve could be incorporated into the system. But I don't
personally see that as much of a problem.
Another idea is that each fighter carry a leather water flask as part of his own
gear (they can have rubber or plastic bladders in them). Water bearers would
then fill up flasks through an open lid, and the only "unsanitary" part would be
the tube on each fighters own flask.
db
From: Erin-Joi Collins McNeal <erinjoi at hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 16:29:22 -0400
Organization: Emory University
I have been watching this thread with professional interest. I must
put my work out of my mind when I work a battle. (I am a chirurgeon,
but part of that is water bearing) My preference is for the
non-contact version. Here are my reasons...
I work with enteric pathogens. These are viruses and other pathogens
which cause acute gastroenteritis (read: diarrhea and vomiting).
Although the primary mode of transmission is fecal-oral (poor hand
washing), most of these pathogens are carried in other gastric
secretions as well. Vomitus is highly infectious; saliva is
infectious though not as highly. So sharing a straw/tube etc. even
with a one way valve is one good way to spread pathogens. Other
pathogens spread through oral secretions include the common cold.
I realize it will take a while before we find appropriate
non-contact bottles. The bottles bought for Pennsic which looked
wonderful had a lousy flow rate. They just didn't work. I prefer the
water bottles with the sports tops. As long as the fighters don't
put the top in their mouths they stay somewhat sanitary.
Additionally the waterbearers who refill the bottles must have clean
hands to screw the lids on after refilling.
I guess this explains why I usually stay out of conversations like
this...
Tabitha/Master Chirurgeon
Erin-Joi/Research Specialist, Emory School of Public Health
From: Beth <steelspirit at earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 22:22:05 GMT
db wrote:
> My suggestion from some time back for sanitary water tubes is to have a plastic
> tube that is just the right size for a regular drinking straw to fit tightly
> into. Each fighter gets a drink from a new straw, the old one gets tossed into
> a bag. If plastic straws are used, they can be disinfected in bleach water and
> reused. If paper is used, it is biodegradable. For the particularly squeamish,
> a simple one way valve could be incorporated into the system. But I don't
> personally see that as much of a problem.
> Another idea is that each fighter carry a leather water flask as part of his own
> gear (they can have rubber or plastic bladders in them). Water bearers would
> then fill up flasks through an open lid, and the only "unsanitary" part would
> be the tube on each fighters own flask.
>
> db
I like the idea of the straws inside the tube. The one way valve sounds great, where would I look for something like that? I would like this project to be something that both the kingdoms that I am offering these to can use and not have to replace or modify in the near future. So if there are things that can be worked out of the current system beforehand, it would be a great help. I have not purchased the supplies for this yet. I want to have a good idea of what to do, before spending money on something that might need changing.
I think when I venture to buy the tubing, I'll bring a piece of a straw with me to be sure it will fit right.
Thank you for your insights into this.
Beth
From: db <deadmonk at hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 08:18:46 -0700
Did a bit of looking about. Seems the most likely source for one way valves is an aquarium supply store. There is a small one way valve made to keep water from backing up into the air pump. They cost a couple of bucks and are sized to fit into plastic tubing.
Should work.
db
From: "Rev. Mike Martin" <ld_hrothgar at yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Water Bearer Bottles
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:52:23 GMT
Stefan li Rous wrote:
> There have been some wonderful bits of info and suggestions given
> here. Many of these talk about using plastic tubes. I believe that
> many kingdoms are getting away from these and going toward the caps
> with the little plugs that you pull out (they are captive to the caps)
> and then easily squirt through a face grill. The advantage is that
Sorry, I think you meant to say "... easily soak the fighter because
they can't get the stream aimed at their mouth through a bar grill
without it splashing all over the place..." and we won't even mention
the guys will full face helms.
> unlike the tube, there is no transfer of any diseases from one fighter
> to the next.
I have seen several fighters take their own water bottle (with straw)
and mark it with a sharpie "This belongs to FOO who is SICK, do NOT use
this unless YOU want to be SICK too!" and nobody touched em... they
didn't drink out of any other bottle... all was well.
Hrothgar
--
Rev. Mike Martin Lord Hrothgar the Smith
http://members.home.net/mmartin139/
scribere jussit amor
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] water-symbols
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:31:08 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene at flash.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
CAC wrote:
> Can someone provide a link where I can find the water-bearing symbol
> for our group? Being computer illiterate, I can't seem to find it on
> the SCA site. Thank you.
Go to: http://www.goldenstag.net/MiscSCA/OfficerBadges.htm
Scroll down to the "water bearers" badge - it's white & blue and looks
like a drop of water.
Warning: this page is graphics intensive and took awhile to load.
--Perronnelle
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] water-symbols
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:07:42 -0600
From: "Chiara" <chiara at io.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
The new webminister of the society has his own personal site of these:
http://www.eastkingdom.org/web/graphics.html
Sincerely,
Franchesca Havas
McKinney, Texas
From: Lou Burgin [AMBERLEA at peoplepc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:42 PM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] WATER & GATORADE
I am going to add my 2 cents here. I have done a lot of research and taught
many classes on the care and feeding of the fighter. In a normally healthy
human, water is all you need to replace. The trouble is getting the to drink
plain water. Sports drinks are expensive, and should be served 1/2 strength
to replace the water that the body needs. I also recommend lemonade. It has
the citrus to help the body maintain electrolyte balance, is mostly water,
sugar for energy, and the koolaid variety is very inexpensive.
H.E. AmberLea
From: Morgan Cain (Ansteorra) [morgancain at earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:32 PM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] WATER & GATORADE
Alina asked:
> Stupid question but I'll ask anyway.
>
> Why gatorade?
As a very experienced waterbearer and former fighter, I will echo what many
people have said: it's the mixture of sugar, salt, and minerals,
particularly potassium, in Gatorade, Powerade, and the other "sports drinks"
that have made them de rigeur for waterbearing.
If you don't like the taste of Gatorade, don't drink it. Or try other
flavours; I think lemon-lime and orange are the easiest to get in the large,
cheap quantities, which is why people tend to use those. Personally, the
only one I can tolerate at all is Lemon Ice; all the rest are too nasty to
choke down, even if I probably need it. As people have said, make the stuff
half-strength. When fighters are on the field and drinking a lot, they need
the water more, and full-strength can give them too many of the minerals
etc. Yes, as some people pointed out, there are those who like to drink
pickle juice, so don't dump it out when pulling the pickles for snacks.
Keep it in the jar so it's easy to find when someone comes looking.
Some people prefer sekanjabin, which is basically a syrup of vinegar and
sugar and mint, but most fighters want to drink the stuff with potassium and
other minerals. Of course, you should also have solid forms such as
pretzels, oranges, pickles, and if you have the funds, melon and grapes kept
on ice will be VERY popular if the sun and temperature are both up.
Be sure to have plenty of water, too! I know that sounds obvious, but at
some sites with poor plumbing, you have to bring in enough fresh water to
keep everybody going. Not just the fighters, be sure the waterbearers water
the marshalls - and themselves! I've taught people, especially children,
that the rule is one-to-three (easy to remember!) - you take one drink for
every three people who get a drink from you. And always drink before you
put up the jugs, for example if there is a "waterbearers in" during a melee,
when you come off the field, get another swing. It's one thing when the
fighters go down from the heat - it's embarrassing when the waterbearers do
it. <G>
---= Morgan
From: L T [ldeerslayer at yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:24 AM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Ansteorra] Dehydration
Looking briefly on the web...(though not that everything you
read on the web is true...) on sports medicine sites
current theory seems to be:
in regards to dehydration:
Water is fine for 1 hour or under of exercise
after that you need to alternate an electolyte
solution and water or take in electrolytes with
your water (i.e. pickles, oranges, etc)
apparently when the electolytes are out of balance