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feasts-free-msg - 9/30/04


Who gets in free to feasts.


NOTE: See also these files: event-rev-msg, demos-msg, evnt-stewards-msg, privvies-msg,  gate-guards-msg, event-ideas-msg, hotel-events-msg, tokens-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given by the individual authors.


Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



From: hwt at bnr.ca (Henry Troup)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Who eats free?

Date: 3 Nov 1994 20:48:40 GMT

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada


Time for a new topic:


if your group does feasts at events, who gets a free meal?


Possible answers are:


- no one

- the Crown

- some set of important people

- everyone [some of Cariadoc's events]


So, what do you do?


In Skraeling Althing, we run to about 10 (of 150-200) complementary

tickets:  Crown (2), Tanist and ban-Tanist (2), Coronet (2), Heirs of

Ealdormere (2), Landed Barons of Ealdormere (6) - not all of these show up,

at every event, because that adds to 14, soon to be 16.


  Henry Troup - hwt at bnr.ca (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions

"I DO have a life, but I find that I'm quickly replacing it with the internet."

                       (Eugene A. Houseman)



From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Who eats free?

Date: 4 Nov 94 05:52:09 GMT

Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, School of Computer Science


>if your group does feasts at events, who gets a free meal?


In the Debatable Lands (AEthelmearc), typically the crown if they show up,

probably the prince and princess of AEthelmearc if they're there, and the

head cook and maybe the autocrat.  Our baron and baroness do not, so far

as I know.  (But it's been a couple years since I last autocratted an



We do not have explicit policies on this.





Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: a-mikem at ac.tandem.com (mckay_michael)

Subject: Re: Who eats free?

Organization: Atalla Corporation - San Jose, CA.

Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 19:14:15 GMT


Our Canton (Caer Darth; Santa Cruz, CA) has a yearly Poachers Feast.  One

of the features of this feast, aside from the fact the nobles only dare show-up

if they are disguised, is that no tickets are reserved for any high faultin'

majesty (to say nothing of giving them something for free).  The fact that we

have had to "state" this policy over and over, shows how ingrained the customs

in the West are.  Every feast I've worked with (with the exception of the

poachers feast, and since my lady is currently head of the West Kingdom Cookere

Guild, this is quite a few) gives free tickets to any reigning royalty.  Free

tickets for Barons and the like are less common, our barony usually does not

do this (but don't forget, feasts are much less common in the West Kingdom then

elsewhere in the knowne world;  of the 15 or so major events that our Barony

does, only 4 of them have feasts).


Seaan McAy    Caer Darth; Darkwood; Mists; West   (Santa Cruz, CA)



From: sco at mchr.nteltec.com (Stephanie)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Who eats free?

Date: 4 Nov 1994 23:24:44 GMT

Organization: Primenet


I am not sure about the rest of the Principality but in the Barony of Twin

Moons, the royals always have a free feast, including the Baron and Baroness

and any visiting Barons and Baronesses.  Also, the kitchen and serving staff

if generally given the feast for free as a thank you for volenteering to

help out.  The autocrats usually end up getting the feast for nothing as

someone pushes food in their direction and commands them to eat.


Isabel d'Estella

Baronial Scribe

Barony of Twin Moons

Kingdom of Atenvelt


Stephanie Valencia


sco at mchr.nteltec.com



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: rorice at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice)

Subject: Re: Who eats free?

Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN

Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 09:04:46 GMT


      Greetings from Lothar,


      At our feasts we generally work it this way:


      The cooks, the winner of the tournament, his/her consort, and any

visiting royalty eat free. The servers eat at half-price.


      However, things are a bit more complicated than they might

appear. The cost of the cooks' and the servers' dinners are factored

into the overall feast budget at cost per portion. (Generally 50 cents to

$2.00 under advertized price, depending on the head cook's whim.)

      The cost of the free meals given to the various VIPs is actually

absorbed by the autocrat's budget at the minimum advertized price. This

is part of the autocrat's prize expenses and miscellaneous costs.

      Usable leftovers from the feast are given to the cooks, the servers,

the clean-up crew, and other people who have impressed the head cook with

their dilligence in preparation, food service, or clean-up.

      So, actually, the people eating the feast and the people attending

our events subsidize these free meals in the cost of their feast tickets or

site fee.


      There ain't no such thing as a free feast.





From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Who eats free?

Date: 6 Nov 1994 00:03:37 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


In the Barony of Wurm Wald, the rule of thumb is that royalty

gets in free, including feast; generally, tourney winners get

free feasts (or refunds if they've already paid); and that's

about it. The Baron and Baroness definitely do NOT get any

freebies; in fact, I usually pay the full fee just for the

honor of serving head table (one of the few privileges of

being Baron).


Of course, this is all up to the autocrat (except for the

royalty and baron parts). As always, when royalty is present,

they choose who will sit at head table (although this generally

includes the winner of the tourneys).


And now for the part that burns my butt: as I said above, I

serve head table. My wife, who is generally merchant liaison,

sits at the feast. Only once in fifteen years has she ever been

asked to sit at head table as local baroness; on the other

hand, neighboring barons & baronesses are often asked to sit

at the head table at our events.


Sorry. Just had to get that off my chest...


Yrs, Folo (just back from an NWTA Board meeting and feeling

      really, really tired...)


Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

Baron Wurm Wald (MidRealm) - Commander Baldwin's (NWTA)



Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:57:36 -0600From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>Subject: RE: SC - Feast Budgets>Chimene wrote:>What are folks feeling about fees for kitchen staff?  The evolving policy>here locally, as I understand it, seems to be that if (a) it's a day event>and you never make it out of the kitchen, you don't pay a site fee, a feast>fee, or anything else; if (b) it's an event where you work the kitchen, but>there's enough event left over around the edges that you get to play, you pay>the site fee but eat free. >>=CaitlinTraditionally in Namron, kitchen staff and servers get fed and when I'mdoing the feast and planning the entertainment, so do the entertainers.For some reason, I've always had good support for my feasts.If I remember correctly, our sainted Baron Bjorn was the one who startedthe tradition of feeding the help.Bear



Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:09:13 -0400

From: "Peters, Rise J." <rise.peters at spiegelmcd.com>

Subject: RE: SC - site fee entitlement was After feast


        >>Several have mentioned this and it makes me wonder:

> If staff don't pay, at what level does one cease to be a staff member

> and become a paying attendee volunteering for a task?


The rule that I've applied, when autocrat, is that if you are working at the

event in a capacity that means you aren't going to be free to participate in

the event itself, you don't have to pay.  That means, if you are getting

there when the site opens, going to the kitchen, and basically staying there

until feast is over, you don't pay.  If you are going to the event, and

taking some time out of attending to pitch in, you pay. Going to a dressy

event and not even bothering to take anything but kitchen grubbies?  Clearly

you aren't attending the same event the people in their fancy stuff are!


By which, I don't mean to start a debate about whether it's more fun in the

kitchen or out; clearly I think "in," since I'm a rational hedonist and

that's where I spend my time.  But there's a difference between "going to an

event" and "going to cook at at event."  In any case, it's the autocrat's



For weekend-long events, that means that in general everyone pays, since

there's fun to be had around the edges of the time spent cooking (at least,

the way we run things there is).


Cait, in Storvik



Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:40:55 -0400

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - site fee entitlement was After feast


>Several have mentioned this and it makes me wonder:

>If staff don't pay, at what level does one cease to be a staff member

>and become a paying attendee volunteering for a task?


>In our barony, everyone pays to attend. For any event, most of the

>sponsoring canton is staff in one way or another. Often members of

>surrounding cantons serve just as much or more than some canton

>members.  The royals who are obligated to attend don't pay, other

>royals might not.


At our Baronial events, it is customary for the Autocrat and Feastcrat to

get in without paying the event fee.  Other freebies include the Royalty

(but not their entourage, we just had a go-round about that one) and

sometimes we have winners of something that are given free events for a

year or the like.  But other staff members all pay, as do significant

others of the Feast and Autocrat.  I am the one who really instituted the

no fee for the Feastcrat, I plain refused to pay for the priveledge of

working my butt off and taking time off of my mundane Chef's job to boot.

I have insisted on this becoming a tradition, and we have stuck to it.



no longer a professional chef, but I did play one on TV!



Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:26:34 -0400

From: "D. Clay-Disparti" <Clay at talstar.com>

Subject: Re: SC - site fee entitlement


In Trimaris the Autocrat/s, Chief Cook/s, royals, the major kingdom officers and

others are given free kingdom events.  The Royals and their guests are free at

feast (you  are told to add at least ten free diners to your portions for the

head table).  At the local level it is at each groups discretion.





Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:59:35 -0700

From: kat <kat at kagan.com>

Subject: Subject: Re: SC - site fee entitlement


Bonne of Traquair asks:

> I think that is the attitude around here.  I was just curious to know

> how those places that have this policy manage it. Are only "titled"

> positions eligible for free admittance?  (cook, autocrat, gatekeeper)

> or further down the line?  What about the MoL?  any deputies?


Well, in our Barony, when you buy a ticket for a feast, you are buying a

*seat.*  On that philosophy, all the folks who *sit* and eat pay full

price.  All those who stand in the kitchen *the whole time* and cook pay

nothing--they wear grubbies and don't bring feast gear or claim a chair in

the hall.  (Of course they get fed; they also get chocolate, love and

undying gratitude; and sometimes footrubs and breakfast in the morning.  No



Traditionally, servers pay half-price, and it's the Autocrat's decision

whether to throw in half-price tickets in the bribe--- I mean, incentive,

for the entertainment.


Attendant Royalty get free tickets (they are at head table and hold court

between courses, which after all *is* work) but their entourage are never

comped; they pay full price like everyone else. Sometimes, if there's a

tournament, two free feast tickets get thrown into the prize basket for the

winner, and he/she and partner get a seat at head table as well; that, too,

is determined by tradition of particular event and by the Autocrat's



Anyway, that's how we do it in Darkwood.    My two cents.


- kat



Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:58:41 EDT

From: Vanishwood at aol.com

Subject: Fwd: Subject: Re: SC - site fee entitlement


As with darkwood, our shire follows the same procedures, except that since

most servers are from our group they do not pay for feast at all and

entertainers pay full price if they are sitting at feast.


Ethelwulf / shire of vanished wood



Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:53:57 -0600 (MDT)

From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>

Subject: SC - site fee entitlement


On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, THL Caitlin Ruadh wrote:

> > I plain refused to pay for the privilege of

> > working my butt off and taking time off to boot.


> This has always been my case - when one autocrat gave me a hard time about

> it, I agree to pay the site fee, but not the feast fee, since the fact is

> that I never manage to sit down and eat at my own feasts anyway!  When that

> event made money, the autocrat was smart enough to refund my site fee!


> Ruadh


I take a different outlook.  I always insist on paying site and feast fee

even though I know I am not 'attending' the event when I am head cook.  My

philosophy is that -everyone- should pay, and if I, the cook, am paying

for the privilege of working my butt off, then what excuse can others make

for -not- paying.


I see it as a matter of if you open the door just a crack, you'll soon

have it wide open and hordes of non-paying attendees rushing in.  I'd

rather keep the door closed, and am willing to put up the money to back

that philosophy.





Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:00:16 -0400

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - site fee entitlement


> I was just curious to know how those places that have this policy

>manage it.  Are only "titled" positions eligible for free admittance?

>(cook, autocrat, gatekeeper) or further down the line? What about the

>MoL?  any deputies?


Nope, just the autocrat and feastcrat.  As I said before, Royalty get in

free (Kingdom Law, I think, at least I hope so) and the occaisional

freebie we give away as a prize, and that's it.  As the significant other

to my lord's last feast (and main Artistic Coordinator of the event) I

paid the full fee, but he did not.  It isn't difficult at all to draw the




<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org