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event-ideas-msg - 1/23/14


Ideas for SCA events.


NOTE: See also the files: event-rev-msg, demos-msg, evnt-stewards-msg, privvies-msg, gate-guards-msg, tokens-msg, hotel-events-msg, feasts-free-msg, evnt-stwd-cltn-art.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org




Date: 30 Sep 90 22:31:00 GMT


Greetings to the Rialto!


This year there were no takers on the hunting of the King's stags (a few

nibbles, but no takers).  It is too late to join me this year.


If you, or your friends are hunters, and would care to join me next year, I

encourage you to start discussing this with me within the next few months.

The hunt will be in early October next year, licenced hunters only.  This will

be a private hunt on private property, restricted to people known to me or

vouchsafed by someone I know, for obvious reasons.  As the Jadgermiester, I

will attempt to place hunters in areas where they will be likely to encounter

prey of the appropriate type.  Garb is required.




This is not an official SCA event!

This is not an official SCA event!

This is not an official SCA event!


However, if there is one nearby, I will coordinate the hunt with them (fresh

venison stew for feast, anyone?)  Such an event could draw non-hunting archers

for both target and a walking "Poacher's" field shoot.  A Norman/Saxon (Prince

John/King Richard & Robin Hood) theme, complete with the "feats of Errol

Flynn" contests (foot-bridge Pole-arms tourney, single-sword [no shields]

tourney, golden arrow shoot, 100-yard swagger and roe-buck carry and toss) or

_Robin and Marian_ Great Sword Champions Battle Followed By The Chase The

Merry Men Into The Woods Melee.  Fencer's should consider that Friar Tuck was

aclaimed to be the "Finest Swordsman of all of England" (Maybe Justinian would

fill the role?)


Whatever. It's just another stupid, non-period event idea ripped-off from too

many good stories.  Don't bother doing this kind of romantically based stuff,

as the purists will aver it's inauthenticity.


Dur the Nasty, no relation to the Other Dur the Nasty


Dale E. Walter     |Dur of Hidden Mountain

dew at ecl.psu.edu    |Schloss Zwerg, Eagle's Pass of the War Road, somewhere in

                  |the East



Date: 15 Jun 92

From: schuldy at progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Organization: Progress Software Corp.


Catrin O'r Ryhd For (KGANDEK at mitvmc.mit.EDU) writes:

Suffice it to say, if people stop to think creatively

(as Arval suggests) there are many, many more interesting ways

to do things that are traditionally "court" business.


Let me provide an example, because it was fun, and it was different, and I had

a little something to do with it.  A local lord (Hi Dhughall) is vassal of

Lord Aquel of Darkstead Wood. His vassalage document (which was drawn out

of period research, and a copy of which I have on line) calls for rents to

be paid quarterly.  These rents could, of course, be paid during Baronial

Court, and would make "great schtick".


Instead, Lord Dhughall hired two herald (me and Gwydden), provided a surcoat

with his arms, and a list of instructions.  In turn, we processed up to

Lord Aquel and his lady between entertainments at a recent event.  As a

good herald does, we very loudly announced our commision, reminded Lord

Aquel of those rents due him, paid him, provided him with additional gifts

as we were requested, took his message for Dhughall, and thanked the

witnesses present.  No court time used, few conversations interrupted.


And, frankly, I had a hell of a good time.  It's tougher to be a herald

in a context where anything can happen (this was NOT rehearsed) than it

is to be in a highly structured court.  For example, Lord Aquel thought

I was just announcing Dhughall, when in fact I was his man. I had to

think a bit quickly to explain why he'd sent a herald.  Also, I told

Dhughall I'd bill him later for services.  Any suggestions?




Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy at progress.com)



From: rousseaua at immunex.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: What do *YOU* do at revels?

Date: 2 Apr 93 14:05:46 PST

Organization: Immunex Corporation, Seattle, WA


Kind Gentles, Greetings from Anne-Marie d'Ailleurs in An Tir.


In article <1993Mar31.160634.7945 at zip.eecs.umich.edu>, charles at zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen) writes:


> I am helping to sponsor a revel.  A small affair where just the shire

> (and anyone else who hears about it, I suppose) will attend.  This would

> be for about 35+ people.  Hopefully, it will be a dessert revel, where

> everyone brings a dish, with some dancing and such. My question is:  what

> else do you gentle folk do at revels?


(rest deleted to save bandwidth)


Good Lady, have you considered a persona revel?


One thing that has proved very successful in the small Canton of

Port de l'eau has been an annual tavern night. The local seneschale and her

lord act as the owners of a 14th century  tavern on the border of Wales and

England. A flier is handed out to the populace ahead of time to brief them on

the politics, etc of the time. Everyone comes, and tries to keep in an

appropriate personae for the evening. Gambling games are available on the

tables, and the potluck contributions are whisked away and served during the

evening by the tavern "staff".


Efforts are made by the "innkeepers" to keep everything as historically correct

:) as possible. Several ringers are arranged ahead of time--ie people who have

really developed their personas, and can help break the ice, and keep people in

the spirit of things. We use tokens as "money". The money is *not* distributed

evenly--we pass it out based on the quality of clothing, etc. (Usually one of

our "ringers" ends up with a fat purse).


Last year I got to be one of the tavern staff. Everyone was expected to share a

story or tale of their travels, in persona, and a good time was had by all!

With a little effort in decorations, and some preplanning, a persona revel can

be a pleasant break in the season of feasting and tourneys.


Good Luck with your event!


Anne-Marie d'Ailleurs


aka Anne-Marie Rousseau

e-mail: rousseaua at immunex.com



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)

Subject: what do you consider to be a good event?

Organization: Indiana University

Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 02:04:51 GMT


What do you consider to be the ideal event, in terms of size, focus,

facilities, type of feast, court, dancing, whatever.


Here's my ideal. It would be about 100-300 people (or more if people

were well enough dispersed that the main hall wasn't crowded. The

tourney, the merchants, classes and dancing would all have their own

rooms/halls. There would also be a quiet, upholstered place to sit and

talk, possibly with musicians playing in the background. A fireplace is

de rigeur if it's cold.

        Food would be available throughout the day as would drinks.

Camping, or good crash space (beds!) would be available overnight.

        Archery, a heraldic consulting table and other activities would

also have their own rooms.

        It would be easy to walk from one area to another so you could

check out everything.

        Feast would start promptly, continue without undue delay and be

filling and tasty. Court would be very brief and would be held during

the afternoon, or not at all, so that it wouldn't interfere with

dancing. The site wouldn't have a closing time so we could dance and

schmooze into the night and people could get quietly soused without

having to drive.

        The site would be beautiful. Either pretty woods and fields or

medieval style architecture.

        Loud parties, baying at the moon and the endless dum-tekka-tek

of the drummers would be non-existant or seperated from the main event

by at least 2 miles.

        The dance hall would have a wooden floor and good places to sit

if you're too tired or hot to dance.

        There would be showers for the fighters and sufficient flush

toilets for the population. There would also be sufficient areas to

change into garb.

        The feast hall would be gorgeous and would seat at least 300 but

wouldn't look empty if you had fewer people. The kitchen would have

sufficient stove, oven and refrigerator space to handle cooking for 300

at once.

        Price would be low enough that site fee wasn't ridiculous per

person. (say $1-5).

        Do not laugh. Some camps have set ups that would allow such an

event and some universities have Union buildings that are pretty good



Lothar \|/




From: WILLIS%EIVAX at ualr.EDU (Brandr)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Flirtation

Date: 9 Apr 1993 15:37:35 -0400


> On the other hand, can someone post some alternative flirtatious

> games that can be played?  That don't involve getting amorously

> involved with persons unknown?  Or are less un-hygenic?


My lady, Glennys nic Kinley has developed a game she calls the Castle of Love,

based on her reading about the games of the middle ages.  She discovered a

passage which said the "Castle of Love" was played as a diversion at

tournaments and courts.  The basic concept of the game was a Lady defends her

castle while the Lord lays seige with words as his missles and flowers as his


We play the game thusly.  The lords and ladies are suggested to form pairs but

this is not necessarily so.  At the first playing many of the young single

ladies accepted all attackers to  their castle.  The lady stands in the castle

(if you wish I can snail mail diagrams and instructions for the portable on I

built) Then in front of the castle stands a gate keeper, usually a lady.  The

lord approaches the castle  and must first remove the gatekeeper.  We have

seen everything from bribes to taunting to picking up the gatekeeper and

setting her to the side.  Then the lord must convince the lady to allow him

into the castle.  This can be with words, songs (sung by hired bards is my way)

gifts or anything short of physically forcing his way into the castle.  We

gave a gift to the best interacting couple that played.  It was a great hit

after we played the actual game the gentles at the ball kept playing the game

over and over.  It was very fun.





From: dolge at lib.wfunet.wfu.EDU (brian dolge)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re:  SCA Digest V6 #246

Date: 6 Apr 1993 21:28:34 -0400


Greetings to the Rialto from Aaron Exile!


On the subject of yeilding, ransoms, etc. I have a small offering. While

the structure of the average elimination tourney certainly discourges yeilding

in even the most overwhelming situations (He's just a Duke, all I need is one

lucky shot) since the result is invarient, there is more range for expierment,

it seems to me, with so-called "ransom" or "Pas d'arms" tourneys. A little finagling by the MOL and quater becomes an interesting option for both parties in the fight. More interesting are the possiblities for "Ransom War". Two Kingdoms agree to a medium of exchange(say chocalate chip cookies) and a ransom structure (3/fighter, 5/squire, 25/knight, etc.) and a date. The kings levy "taxes" on their baronies, shires, etc., rally their troops and show up at the place and date agreed to with troops and currency in tow.


The first battle commences.


Those who die go to the dead area. Those who yield go to the opposing kingdom's

ransom area. After the battle ransoming and prisoner exchanges go on for half an hour. Then the next battle commences with the ransomees, but sans the dead.

The third battle includes those who have survived to date, plus "reinfocements"

resurected from the first battle and so on indefinatly. This set-up not only

gives the fighters interesting options, it MIGHT even lead to the advent of

**STRATEGY***. A King who wins the first battle but loses all but a handful of

knights in the process will find himself in a bad spot for the second. In the

same way a wise King might hold back some of his best troops to "guard the pass"


Retreat might even become an option. Also since scuttage is an integral part of the system even tiny groups far from the war site can contribute.


        Anyway sorry for the run on paragraph. Just a random thought from a

decidedly unimpressive fighterguy.


               The ideas expressed above are my own and in no

               way constitute acts or policy of the office

               of the Minister of Arts and Sciences of the

               Shire of Hindscroft.   :^)


        Aaron Exile          Brian Dolge

        Shire of Hindscroft Winston-Salem,N.C.

        Atlantia             dolge at lib.wfunet.wfu.edu



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval Benicoeur)

Subject: Period vs. SCA tournaments

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 20:31:28 GMT

Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research


Greetings from Arval!  Alison asked:


> ...how important was the concept of "let the best man win" in period

> tourneys, where "best"= "most competent fighter" as opposed to ="most

> gallant, daring and showy"?


The latter attitude is a reasonable description of how period tournaments

were judged.  Prowess was certainly an important factor in awarding prizes,

but it does not appear ever to have been the sole factor.


At the earliest tournaments, there was no "winner" and no prizes were

awarded. Participants could earn a fortune in ransoms, horses, and armor,

and knights who showed great prowess were certainly respected and wooed by

the powerful, but there does not seem to have been any attempt to choose a

single winner for a particular tournament.  By the late 12th century, it

began to be common to award one or more prizes to those knights who had

best acquitted themselves, but the prizes were awarded at the whim of the

prize-giver, the heralds, or the judges, not according to a strict ranking

of the combattants.  Over the next three centuries, the taking of ransoms

ceased to be part of the tournament, and prizes became standard, fancier,

and more central to the proceedings.  By the 15th century, a tournament

treatise had the herald invite the defendant "to hold a tournament... to

compete for the prize, for the glory of the knights, and for the ladies'

pleasure and sport." (Lisch, trans., 1992, from Sandoz, Edouard; "Tourneys

in the Arthurian tradition;" Speculum, 1944, vol. 19 (no. 4), pp.

389--420). However, according to the books of chivalry, knights competed

in tournaments to win honor (and perhaps thereby to win recognition and

patronage from great lords), not for direct enrichment.  Many a knight

bankrupted himself in order to attend tournaments; some of the 14th century

tournament societies of Germany pooled their resource to send one or two of

their members to a tournament each year.  


In the late 15th century, we find complex systems for scoring tournaments,

some of which specify that certain feats should alway sgain the prize.  For

example, Lord Tiptofte's rules say that any knight who unhorses his

opponent should win the prize.  The implication here and in the

accompanying complex rules for scoring the jousts when neither knight is

unhorses is that this success was so rare that it could not be imagined to

happen more than once in a day's jousting.


Another phenomenon of the 14th and early 15th centuries was the "votal

order," a term suggested by D'Arcy Boulton to describe an order of knights

and squires formed to fulfill a specific vow or feat or arms.  They might

swear to travel to tournaments until they had broken a certain number of

lances, or to swear a particular ornament (e.g., a golden collar) until

they had satisified their ladies that they were honorable knights.  In

these enterprises, it was not important who won the jousts; simply taking

part was enough to establish one's honor.  The fashion was so widespread

that at one point we find an order formed for the sole purpose of providing

opponents for knights who had made vows but could not fulfill them.


One place where SCA tournaments leave period models is our focus on

determining a single best fighter in the day's jousting, rather than simply

honoring anyone who takes part or, if any prize is to be given, awarding

prizes on more general criteria than simply who won the most bouts at the

right times.  This feature of SCA tournaments may be the source of some of

the over-competitiveness that often emerges as a problem in our combat.

There are many ways to eliminate this feature from the typical SCA tourney,

but the fact that we choose our royalty by combat makes it a tricky

proposition for royal tournaments.  In other tournaments, some of the

possible approaches are:


* Have no official prizes; instead, encourage individuals or orders to

present prizes according to their own criteria.


* Let the ladies award some of the prizes; let the fighters themselves

award others.  Encourage them to focus of honor, courtesy, style,

boldness, prowess.


* Have many equal prizes, none very valuable: scrolls commemorating the

tournament, flowers, inexpensive rings.  Give one to every fighter.


* Give prizes with the understanding that the recipient is expected to give

the prize away, or prizes that the fighter can't take home or keep to

himself (a keg of mead).


* Encourage the fighters to give prizes to each other.  A ransom tournament

is one way to do this; ask each fighter to bring ransom that he feels is

appropriate to satisfy his own honor.


* Honor the finest fighters in songs or poetry (which can be published in

the kingdom newsletter), or through granting some privilege within the

branch that sponsored the tourney (e.g., the right to sit at high table

in the shire for a year and a day; the right to lead the first dance at

the next feast in the shire).


> I think part of Palymar's objection may be that the period tourney

> forms...  may not be well suited to choosing... the most competent

> fighter on the field that day.


That was my interpretation of his original message, but his followup

disabused me of that notion.  Forgive me for putting words into your mouth,

Palymar, but I think you have no objection to other criteria beyond

individual prowess-at-arms; rather I think you want to be sure that the

criteria measure something meaningful (like leadership ability), bear some

reasonable relationship to SCA culture (e.g., by favoring those who can

bring vassals to support them), and that the tournament format has been

used enough times for any hidden problems to be revealed and resolved.


Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle at watson.ibm.com



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: MDA auction/tourney

From: amethysta at eric.stonemarche.org (Amethysta of Kensingto)

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 93 18:24:32 EDT


Greetings to all and sundry on this pleasant day!

Stonemarche will once again be holding an auction and tourney to benefit

the MDA at Pennsic.


First- the auction: Every year we get donations from Pennsic merchants to

be sold to benefit this charity. It happens in two parts: During the

week, there is a silent auction held at the auction booth. The booth

(hopefully) will be in the same place as it was next year (next to the

barn). Drop by, and if you see something you would like to bid on simply

write your bid down. All items getting more than a certain number of bids

will then go to the open auction. This will be held Saturday, Aug. 21 at

11:00 in the Barn.


Next - the tourney: This will be a drop dead,stay dead tourney. You pay

for the type of funeral you would like to get. For example, if you pay

nothing, you may get dragged off the field by your feet. For a few

dollars (the prices are yet to be set) you can get carted to the side of

the field. A few more dollars, and you can have mourners. The person that

donated the most money gets a full funeral precession back to their

encampment complete with wailing women and lots of people following

saying what a great person you were. Sounds like fun? Boy, is it!

The tourney will be in the main battlefield on Tuesday, Aug. 17, at 5:00.


If anyone has any interest in helping, we will appreciate it. We always

need people to act as auctioneers and runners for the auction. Also, we

can always use more mourners/wailing women. (A great job for all the hams

we have around here, though no acting experience necessary!) Most


please, please help us! Our baronial marshall will not be there until

after Tuesday. (grovel,grovel.) If you are interested in lending us a

hand you can:

Email to me or Ian (Amethysta at eric.stonemarche.org/Ian at eric.stonemarche.or


Call us: 603-622-0657

Call the person running this: Renalt MacFirbis: 603-743-4816

Stop by the Stonemarche or Eberhorn encampment & ask about it.


Remember, it's for a very good cause,




RE>MDA auction/tourney


Unto Lord Stefan li Rous does Amethysta send greetings and well-wishings!


Well, actually we have been doing this at Pennsic for a few years now. We

should be doing it next year too, so look for us! I was at this tourney

for the first time last year, so I'll try to describe it in more detail

(but bear with me, I'm not a fighter). The fighters assemble & pay for

the type of funeral they would like. Then they split up into two teams

and fight each other. I've seen some wonderfully dramatic deaths here.

Last year, all of the weeping women stood on the sidelines & acted as

cheerleaders (though they were yelling "weep, weep, wail, wail"). There

were also a lot of corpse who would lie around & twitch. In the end there

was only one person left. He started a soliloquy about "Oh, the carnage!

Oh, the bloodshed! I can't live with myself!" He then killed himself.


Then we mourners dragged of the people who paid the least, carted people

who paid middling amounts, with lots of good schtick. The big procession

was THE MOST FUN!!! I think we did this for the top four payers. We had

two or three fighters pulling a cart with him/her on it, a few people

standing guard around the corpse and at least a half dozen weeping women

saying things like: "Oh, he was such a good man, and so handsome", "One

of the greatest fighters has died today", or "Your husband, he was MY

husband". This we did all the way back to his/her encampment. Boy, was my

throat sore the next day! Lots on people on the way to the encampment

watched this procession go by, with great humor. I just can't say enough

about how fun it was!


If you would like to know more, you are really in luck. One from our

barony who has ran this in the past moved down to Austin. His name is

Tammoj of Aldea. Big guy, can't miss him. Let me know if you have trouble

finding him & I'll get a current address and phone number.


Sorry if I just talked your ear off. Good luck in your endeavour.




Hello again.

I seem to have made a mistake. It's not Austin where Tamooj lives, it's

Bryan. Please forgive my lack of knowledge about your state, because I

don't know if that's anywhere near where you live. (And my altas seems to

have been taken by elves...)

Anyways, his address is:

Mike Steele

3011 Kim St.

Bryan, TX 77803


If you compliment him a bit, I'm sure you'll get all the info you may

want. :)

I'm not sure if we always killed off everyone in the battle, but then, if

I paid for a funeral, I would kill myself too! The carts we use were

borrowed from people at Pennsic. We always get at least one cart from Sir

Aelfwine, who build the cart for his kid's use. (So you know it must be


As to doing a number of funerals, we had a seperate group for every

person. That way, no one has to walk from one end of the camp to the

other twice or three times. I would imagine that if you were doing this

for a smaller event, you might be able to get away with something

different. Maybe lay your highest paying fighter in the back of a pickup

truck. (oops-I meant fighters.) Then have a funeral procession around the

site. You could even decorate the truck to look like a viking ship, you

know the kind they would send a dead body adrift on.

That's what I love about this - the schtick possiblities are endless!

You will tell me how it works out when you do it, right?





From: brinega at gibbs.oit.unc.edu (John Brinegar)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Holmgang as a period tournament form

Date: 26 Sep 1993 19:58:21 GMT

Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill


Greetings unto the Rialto from Gwion ap Bleiddyn.

   Holmgangs are quite popular in An Tir.  I have seen them include

everything Sir John mentions, except for the breaking of swords.  I have

also seen a holmgang set on a melting ice floe (every few bouts the

marshals shrank the circle).  There seems to be little need for an excuse

to hold a holmgang; often fighters will round up a marshal or two and hold

one on the spur of the moment.

   In order to run what is essentially judicial combat as a tourney, one

person enters the circle to hold it against the first challenger; the

victor then holds it against the next, and so on.  One generally runs

through all the participating fighters two or three times (the bouts are

very short), and the one with the best record wins the tourney.

   One can also run a holmgang in the same manner as a regular

single-elimination tourney; I believe the first one I can remember,

sponsored by Duke Torgul, was run in this fashion.  If I remember rightly,

he had sticks with the combatants' names carved in runes on them, and

picked pairs of sticks to establish pairings.  When someone lost a fight,

he broke their stick over his knee.  I thought this was nice and stylish.  


Respectfully, Gwion ap Bleiddyn



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)

Subject: Re: Holmgang as a period tournament form

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 15:22:14 GMT

Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research


Greetings from Arval!  Gwion of An Tir wrote about holmgang-style fighting:


>      In order to run what is essentially judicial combat as a tourney, one

> person enters the circle to hold it against the first challenger; the

> victor then holds it against the next, and so on.  One generally runs

> through all the participating fighters two or three times (the bouts are

> very short), and the one with the best record wins the tourney.


This style of tournament is called a "bear pit" in the East.  As a form of

re-creation, it falls into the same category as the elimination tree: The

individual bouts can be very authentic, but the overall organization is

not. Having a fighter or fighters within hold the field against comers

without is a reasonable, simple re-creation of a passage of arms, but

having the fighters within change according to who wins bouts is not

historical, as far as I know.  Choosing a winner based solely on the number

of bouts he wins is similarly not historical; even when tournaments

developed formal scoring systems, they were more complex than that.  


In practical terms, there is something about a bunch of fighters lining up

for a shot at the guy holding the field that just looks wrong to me.


Your suggestions, Gwion, essentially use the holmgang form to make

individual bouts fit a historical model, but don't address the overall

organization. Of the two types of organization that you suggest, one fits

a very different historical model - the passage of arms of the 14th century

- and the other is purely modern - the elimination tree.  I wonder if there

is a tournament organization that fits the same historical model as the

holmgang; it seems unlikely.


Arval d'Espas Nord                                   mittle at watson.ibm.com



From: brinega at gibbs.oit.unc.edu (John Brinegar)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Holmgang as a period tournament form

Date: 27 Sep 1993 20:23:43 GMT

Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill


   Oops! I really ought to pay a little more attention to the subject

line... What I have described, of course, is the holmgang as an An Tirian

SCA tournament form: I agree with Arval that one probably can't make the

holmgang fit into a period tournament format.  In fact, I wouldn't want

to. If I were to hold a highly authentic tourney, I would follow the

forms of a pas d'armes or other historically recorded sort of tourney.

The holmgang hasn't anything to do with actual tourney forms, and would be

an unhistorical addition; I don't see that it offers a great enough

benefit to offset this.

   I think it would be fun, however, to recreate a historical holmgang--

have two people decide to settle some (theatrically motivated) dispute by

combat in this manner.  Such a recreation would be appropriate to a

highly Norse-flavored event such as Egil's Tourney in An Tir.  It might

even be possible to create an "island" in the shallows of the reservoir

there so that this could be a true "island-going".

Respectfully, Gwion ap Bleiddyn



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)

Subject: Re: Holmgang as a period tournament form

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 21:25:11 GMT

Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research


Greetings from Arval!  


Earlier today, I wrote:


> Your suggestions, Gwion, essentially use the holmgang form to make

> individual bouts fit a historical model, but don't address the overall

> organization...  I wonder if there is a tournament organization that fits

> the same historical model as the holmgang...


A possibility occurred to me: a gambling tournament.  The fighters could

bet on their own (and other) fights, perhaps using coin provided by the

hosts of the event, which they could later use to purchase prizes or give

their own rewards.  The idea seems to me to fit the Viking meadhall

scenario, though it may or may not be historical to have organized fighting

as a form of gambling.


Arval d'Espas Nord                                   mittle at watson.ibm.com



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: fixit at astro.dasd.honeywell.com

Subject: Re: Holmgang as a period tournament form

Organization: Honeywell Inc. DASD

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 14:01:25 GMT


Toli asks about what I wrote on the holmgang tourney at GOT XX:

> Did that include keeping your injuries from bout to bout or were you 'healed'

> between bouts?


The fights were to first blood so there were no injuries to keep.


> Also, who chose weapon systems, did the person holding the field get to

> change weapons?


Fighters took to the circle what they wanted and kept them until they left

the circle.


> I think your time estimate is a little off. 72 victories in 1 hour means he

> averaged 50 seconds per bout including the time to clear the field between

> bouts.


You are right, but there were 4 circles and Johann stood in 3 of them.

The tourney ran over 1 hr but less than 1-1/2 hrs.


Now to go back a bit . . .


We have a tourney (?) locally which is liked very much called

"Stand at Stamford Bridge."  The 'field' is about 2' by 12'.  A fighter

must hold the bridge against all comers (1 at a time).  Wounds ARE

retained. If you step (or are knocked) off the bridge, you lose.

Sometimes both fighters end up in the drink.  This is a very popular

competition locally.  For the bridge we use a 2X12 suspended between two

4X4s so there is a bit of spring in the bridge and also it is obvious

when you fall off.





From: 00mjstum at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Robin Hood vs. Little John

Date: 6 Oct 93 15:22:44 GMT

Organization: Widget Enterprises


Gunwalt talked about 'Stand at Stamford Bridge' and described it a little


I responded:

>> Ooh, cool!  So it's like a Robin Hood vs. Little John bridge battle, yes?


Gunwalt responded to my response:

> I never heard of that one.  Please provide more details


Well, what I meant was the "classic" duel between Robin Hood and Little

John when they first meet...   one-on-one on a very narrow bridge where

knocking the other fellow off is just as good as physically defeating him.


You had described using this sort of bridge in a "bearpit" scenario where

the winner takes all comers.  I had another idea.... two teams line up at

either end of the bridge.  They both want to cross, but neither wants to

give way.  So they each send a representative to the center to duke it out.

The winner holds the bridge and the losing team sends yet another

representative to the bridge.   This is done until one team is completely



I also envision creating a "single-elimination" tourney using this team

format with "wounds retained"... i.e. any combatants that your team lost in

the previous battle are gone forever... they get to go play in some other

list.    (This "tourney" would actually be a sub-tourney within the whole.)


Comments or suggestions anyone?


(For those that didn't catch the original post, the bridge is constructed

from 10 to 12' planks resting on a couple of 4x4s laying on the ground at

either end.  This gives some spring to the bridge and makes it obvious when

you step off of it.  The bridge should be no wider than 3 or 4'.  At least,

that's what I had envisioned.  I'm planning on building one at our

fighter-practice site to see how it works... perhaps add a few

embelishments. [Ahh!  It's nice having a dedicated site where you can

store stuff like pells and bridges and armor...:-) ])




Matt Stum                    Gwydion ap Myrddin       Ball State University

00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.edu       Shire of Afonlyn, MK     Muncie, IN  USA



From: jschmidt at oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Robin Hood vs. Little John

Date: 6 Oct 1993 19:01:53 GMT

Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)


Hello to all on this Rialto from John Theophilous!


00mjstum at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) writes:

>You had described using this sort of bridge in a "bearpit" scenario where

>the winner takes all comers.  I had another idea.... two teams line up at

>either end of the bridge.  They both want to cross, but neither wants to

>give way.  So they each send a representative to the center to duke it out.

>The winner holds the bridge and the losing team sends yet another

>representative to the bridge.   This is done until one team is completely




Many years ago we did exactly this thing here at a war called the Lucky/McEnruge war. (It had many, many cool battles--including a cargo-net tunnel battle). The bridge was 2' wide, and made by just staking 2x4's down as the edges.  This let you know where the edge was without twisting your ankle as it slid off. The

battle was also over if you could reach the other side, so timing of troops

was important.  What worked best, a pike line or some big shields?  Niether.

Someone with a small round, a good sword, and a deep stance could kill both,

and eliminated most of one team...


But it's really a fun battle!




From: Dave.Aronson at f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Robin Hood vs. Little Jo

Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1993 13:19:28 -0500


00mjstum at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) writeth:


MJS> The bridge should be no wider than 3 or 4'.


3' gives plenty of room for two armored fighters to pass by each other; to

retain plausibility of the premise, I'd say more like 2'....



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: cassie at worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)

Subject: Re: Again with the event suggestions (got any?)

Organization: NAS/NASA-Ames Research Center

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 17:53:48 GMT


During the first reign on Jade & Shaheena, Shaheena established a

tournament of roses during the Crown Tournament. The way thus ran

was to challenge another fighter and the fighter who was not the

victor goes to the queen and asks for a rose to give to the victor's

source on inspiration.


Yesterday, I was the autocrat of a non-fighting event. And took this

idea into another area. We had people challenge others to games of

chess, backgammon, hunkerhauser, go and nine mens's morris. It was

a great way for those non-fighters to be able to win roses for

their inspirations. It seemed well received by all.


In another event I have gone to before. They have what is called a lords'

helm lunch. The lords make lunches which are then auctioned off to the

ladies (the ladies may make team together to bid on a lunch if they wish to).

Of course, the lord who made the lunch is kept anonymous until the lunch is

sold. Once the lunch is sold the lord and then lady (ladies) go off and

enjoy the lunch together. It is a great way of meeting new people.

One very extravagant lunches was sold for $60, a few for over $40. It is

a great fund raiser.



From: tmyers at unlinfo.unl.edu (tim myers)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Merchants vs. Fighters at Events_(Candlemass Plug - LONG)

Date: 10 Jan 1995 23:59:33 GMT

Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln       


Kel Rekuta (krekuta at tor.hookup.net) wrote:

: Put some effort into finding a bigger site. Sounds like you've outgrown this

: one. It happens. Move on to bigger and better things instead of stifling your


Another idea, not necessarily a solution, is to have a merchanting event.

Ours, in Calontir, is the Kris Kinder Markt first weekend in December. It's

absolutely packed with merchants, has no fighting, usually quite a few

meetings and enough space to gab between shopping sessions.




Tim Myers                                   Toli the Curious

University of Nebraska-Lincoln              Shire of Mag Mor

tmyers at unlinfo.unl.edu                      Kingdom of Calontir



Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:22:19 -0500

From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu, sca at mc.lcs.mit.edu, ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

Subject: Ladies' Solar as a Teaching/Workshop


I thought I'd mention this concept to others for comment.  We've come up

with a neat way to add a very period element to many types of events where

persona playing, as well as learning and teaching arts and crafts, is

strongly encouraged, in a fun and relaxed way.


During our upcoming Women's Symposium, the Alexandrian Company is having a

"women's solar" in the large outer area in front of the classrooms during

the time when the academic classes are being taught, and in the solar we

invite every one to bring their projects and work on them, especially

textiles, but any hand-craft not requiring huge equipment of big messes is

welcome. =20


Here in Ansteorra, the "solar" or "bower" or "dyngja" is a fairly new

concept that's catching on fast.  At events such as Candlemas, where there

are classes during the day and a feast in the evening, we are trying to

always set aside a place where everyone (not just the ladies) is encouraged

to come and bring their medieval crafts.  This is a cool persona workshop,

as everyone should stay in persona.  And it gives people a chance to sit

and talk and visit, as well as to work on a project, learn a new craft, or

share their craft with others.  If you sponsor a "solar" at such an event,

it is probably easiest to structure it around a ranking female noble, if

you can get one, whose "manor" you are visiting, who can be the hostess in

the solar and help provide structure, guide out-of-period conversations

gently back into the period mold, etc.


We've done a "dyngja" at a small Viking feast event, a "solar" at a

Candlemas where the sponsor was a noble lady from Avignon, and you could

have a "bower" for an event with an English theme or sponsor.


The solars which I've attended have let me get a lot of work done, usually

drop spinning or weaving.  It's a great way to fill the time during an

event when you aren't taking classes and aren't (fill in other event

activity here, such as fighting, feasting, dancing, etc.)


Has anyone else used a "solar" type of area for promoting A&S as well as

persona during an event?  If you haven't, do try it... it's a lot of fun!


Gunnora Hallakarva




From: rmorrisson at aol.com (RMorrisson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Ladies' Solar as a Teaching/Workshop

Date: 28 Aug 1997 19:06:44 GMT


Greetings from Myfanwy!

This sounds a lot like a concept explained to me recently as some of us

were in the planning stages for the upcoming college demo season here in



Up here, it is called "The Castle" and is basically an average day in the

life of castle residents: no tourneys, no feast activity (as in "Feast of

St. X" rather than SCA feast), etc.  Just a quiet, humdrum, get the mending

done sort of day.


I have not experienced it myself, but it sounded really neat.


Lady Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon

mka Ruth Morrisson

RMorrisson at aol.com



Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:09:51 -0500

From: Richard Keith <keith.78 at osu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC -A Nautical Feast or a Sailors best meat I mean mate


Sorry Tongue in cheek here.


But think of the Event theme.  A medieval seafarers exploration of the

exotic lands. Pirates on the High Seas.  Decorate the feast hall with a map

showing a Flat world.  Perhaps make a game of falling of the World.  Those

below the salt are off the world.


The more Nautical member of our Society could educate the public with

period types of ships and tools. Classes in Knots for private fun as well

as practical use.  There could be a bardic circle focused on salty

tales.  Perhaps an A & S featuring  like items.  Have a mermaid or merman

costrume contest.


One could have guienne pigs, elephants, Penguins, Various similes of

reported sea monsters, fish, clams and Lrd Ras' testicles with the peppered

white sauce. (Sorry Ras after you asked me how I like mine fixed while you

were holding a knife)


This could be a fun event.  Wish I had access to cheap seafood.





From: Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>

Date: February 9, 2012 5:15:42 PM CST

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] The original complaint filed.


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Cionaodh O'Hosey

<CionaodhOHosey at verizon.net> wrote:


On Feb 9, 2012, at 4:20 PM, chris st. john wrote:

<< If you answer no to these questions, why would you not report a child in an unsafe situation? >>


I would always report such things, that said, not wanting to have to look out for the safety of children makes me want to seek an adult only activity.  I doubt I am alone.


Cionaodh O'Hosey >>


I have a brilliant idea! Let's see how "not alone" you are with this

thought. Plan a no-children event. It can be like an SCA event in

every other way, hold whatever activities you like (chivalric combat,

rapier, archery, equestrian, feasting, classes) pick whatever theme

inspires you, but just have a "no minors are permitted onsite at this

event" policy. See if a group will agree to sponsor it. Then see how

many people attend and you'll have your answer.


And no, before anyone thinks this is sarcasm, it's not. Some of us

might like to have a day free of children (ours or anyone else's).

There might be a permanent home for this on the calendar if it does

well. And if it's a complete failure, well then we know we don't have

to even discuss the idea of the entire society going child-free ever



I'm all for trying something new. And heck, if there were more

"themed" events I might drag my butt out to more things. Child-free

might not be my preferred theme, but I don't see a problem with a

small event focused at a specific audience. One of my favorite events

was a "board game championship", only 30 people attended and the post

revel was pot-luck desserts instead of a feast, but I had a great

time, and the organizer picked the perfect site so it broke even and

everything (might have made money actually, I can't remember). Let's

be Creative!





From: Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>

Date: February 10, 2012 12:12:29 AM CST

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Ansteorra] The child-free event idea


<< Well... to really meet Cionaodh's goal of a child-free SCA, you'd have to

have an event that not only didn't allow children, but didn't allow people

who *have* children to attend. Or maybe you could cut the parents a little

slack, and if they've got kids, then only one parent could attend, while the

other one stayed home with the kids.


That'd be a much more realistic portrayal of the SCA he seems to want.


      -Tivar Moondragon >>




Please take the suggestion in the good nature in which it was

intended. People who *have* children would be perfectly welcome at

this event. There are such things as babysitters and grandparents, and

some of us folks with children go to other things without them

(movies, dinners, concerts, heck my parents used to take 1 week

anniversary getaways).


Granted, but how many of those things are full-weekend events? Can *you*

afford a babysitter from Friday evening until sometime Sunday afternoon? And

if so, how often? Maybe you can drop the kids with the grandparents, but

what if they're in another state (or in Houston when you want to go to

Steppes Warlord or Namron Protectorate?)


Since you asked, the grandparents in my case are not in another state,

they are in another COUNTRY. So yeah, not an option for me either, and

I am WELL aware of it. As for whether I can afford it and how often,

it would depend how badly I wanted it. If child-free weekends were a

high-priority item for me then I would re-arrange my budget to

accommodate it, or maybe swap childcare with someone I trusted. I

wouldn't make it a priority myself, but I think it's a false

assumption to think that all parents think the way I do. After all, if

all parents had my helicopter-parent attitude there wouldn't be loose

children running around at events would there? Parents are not the

Borg, we are all individuals with different priorities and different

ways of doing things.


As much as I love my kids, they're not some

sort of growth I would need to have surgically removed, and despite

appearances they are not in fact attached to me at the hip.


I don't see a problem with trying this for one event and letting

people vote with their feet. Someone other than me would have to step

up and plan it though, I'm too busy with my kids ;)




<< Sure, you might be able to manage this for one weekend in the year, but if

you're going to a couple events every month? (Which we were, at one time,

with two fairly small kids.) *That's* the point I was trying to make: that a

kid-free SCA means you're going to lose a lot of parents along with those



      -Tivar Moondragon >>


Tivar, you're missing my point. I was simply suggesting it for one

event, not even one event per year. We see how well or how poorly

attended it is and go from there. People who support the idea of

child-free events (whether they have children or not) will attend, and

people who do not will skip it. If the attendance is great and the

event is successful then maybe there is merit to the idea and we

expand it out to an annual thing, or maybe even more than one per year

and we see where the breaking point is, how many child-free events can

the kingdom support? If on the other hand few people show up (which is

what I suspect would happen) then the debate is resolved. Where is the

harm in allowing him to perform the experiment and letting him put his

money where his mouth is? And if he doesn't plan it, well then that

solves the argument too, if you don't believe in your cause enough to

put effort into it, then why should anyone take your suggestion

seriously? At this point the onus of proof to show the existence of

these like-minded supporters to his cause is on him, so let him have

the space to come up with it or not.


Yes, I may be suggesting giving him just enough rope to hang himself

with, but what if the event is successful, would it be a bad thing if

he stumbles onto something that appeals to a particular demographic in

our members? People always tell me that fighting is the heart of the

SCA and everything NEEDS to revolve around it. And if you don't have

fighting at an event that it is DOOMED to failure. Well I've been to a

number of events with no fighting at all that were quite successful if

success can be defined as being well attended, profitable, and enjoyed

by all who attended. Does that mean I think we can take fighting out

of the SCA entirely? Of course not. But every event doesn't have to

cater to every crowd or encompass every aspect of our game. What is

wrong with holding the occasional special-interest event that caters

to a particular segment of our group? Bigger isn't always better. And

who knows, smaller, more focused events might result in greater

overall attendance. I think that's an idea worth experimenting with.





From: Gwendolyn <gwendolyn.raqs at GMAIL.COM>

Subject: [CALONTIR] Fwd: From the Barony of Grey Niche, Kingdom of Gleann Abhann

Date: September 29, 2013 1:34:00 PM CDT

To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu


The Barony of Grey Niche is hosting an event run entirely by their youth (with adults to mentor and assist).  What a cool way to teach the next generation!  




Begin forwarded message:


From: Susannah Austin <zanna8 at gmail.com>

Date: September 27, 2013, 7:27:51 PM CDT

Subject: From the Barony of Grey Niche, Kingdom of Gleann Abhann


The Barony of Grey Niche presents Samhain


SCA-Trek The Next Generation


October 11 – 13, 2013


Piersol Group Camp, Meeman-Shelby Forest State Park

910 Riddick Road, Millington, TN 38053

901-876-5215 or 800-471-5293


This event will be a unique one! The youth of our land are hosting their

first event! Of course, each child has an official mentor to deal with the

legal issues, and fill key positions that must be held by an adult.

However, the entirety of this event will be run by the youth. It is all

about them learning the “How and Why” behind what we do, so come and see

how our future generations reenact the past!


Join us on Friday night for a torchlight tournament, Friday night Filk

competition, and Travelers Faire. There will be a full day of activities on

Saturday, with lots of fighting for heavy and light! We have A&S classes

and Bardic competitions scheduled, and there will also be an amazing feast

Saturday evening! Bring your aluminum can pull tabs! The youth will be

collecting this “future metal” to donate to the Ronald McDonald House.




Please come out and support our children... They really are our future!


<the end>

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