relics-msg - 1/20/00 Use of religous relics in period. NOTE: See also the files: religion-msg, icons-msg, Icons-art, Relics-fr-all-art, pilgrimages-msg, rosaries-msg, crusades-msg, brass-rub-msg, heretics-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: cozzlab at garnet.berkeley.edu () Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Relics Date: 11 Oct 1993 15:49:06 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Carol Pinchefsky <pinchefs at castor.hahnemann.edu> wrote: >More importantly, I'm looking for information on the minor wars, >major squabbles, thievery, quests and pilgrimages caused by and >pertaining to Said Religious Bits. There's a fine book, recently out, on the subject. The title is _Furta Sacra_ (=Stolen Holy Bits). Consult your library. Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy Heydt From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Relics Date: 11 Oct 1993 14:45:02 -0400 Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto I have a nifty coffee-table book with lots of illustrations of reliquaries: _Highways of the Faith: Relics and Reliquaries from Jerusalem to Compostela_, by M.M. Gauthier. You should find it useful. But when studying relics, mi'lady, remember of corse, that the test of a true relic is its ability to perform miracles, not whether it is indeed "genuine". (by our standards, that is) Each of the churches which claimed to have the head of John the Baptist could also claim that it had healed many folk and offered its church protection, etc. To the medieval person interested in acquiring a relic of their own, the question was not so much "is it real", but "what miracles has it performed"? Nicolaa/Susan sclark at epas.utoronto.ca From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: relics Date: Sat, 05 Mar 94 11:16:09 EST Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op Viking daggers evolved into reliquaries? Interesting. There are 3 kinds of relics. Relics of the First Degree: an actual bodily remain of a cannonized saint Relic of the Second Degree: an object owned by or touched by an actual cannonized saint. Relic of the Third Degree: a fabricated facsimile of either of the above, ostensibly created for the purpose of inspiring devotion. Needless to say, Relics of the first degree are rather rare. They must be flawlessly documented as to content and provenance,and must be authenticated by the Vatican. St. Timothy's big toe is an example of a relic of the First Degree. (it resided in the altar of St. Charles Church, Staten Island, NY) A consecrated altar in a consecrated church must contain a relic. Relics of the Second Degree are more common, and were bestowed upon nobility as rewards for acts of piety. (such as granting lands for a monastary or hospital, etc). Ornate reliquaries were commissioned for their safekeeping. Like relics of the first degree, miracles were often attributed to these items. They were occasionally displayed publically during Holy Days. Also, like relics of the First Degree, the pious made pilgrimages to view them. Such a pilgimage was sometimes ordered as penance. By far the most common were the Relics of the Third Degree, Pardoners frequently offered these for sale along with absolutions and prayers for indulgences. In this category are the multitudinous "Pieces of the True Cross", vials of "Mary's Milk" and Christ's umbilical cord, nails from the crucifixion, Veronica's Veils, shreds of the shroud, etc. The medieval purchaser of such objects had no illusions as to their origins...they knew full well that they were not the *real thing*, but they hoped that some of the benificence attached to the real objects would somehow rub off on their own. Miraculous occurances could elevate the status of a relic. (as well as the status of the owner!) The market for relics being what it was, it was always possible to find a genuine relic amoung the copies, so it made it a worthwile risk to invest in one, especially from a promising source. Returning crusaders turned a hefty profit in relics "brought back from the Holy Land". Unscrupulous people were not above faking miracles to substantiate a relic's effacacy. While it is possible that the desire for relics as talismans could have evolved from Viking practices in certain places. it did predate the Viking incursions in the Mediterranean. I think this practice was (is) simply a universal human trait...owning a piece of a celebrity will enable some of their greatness to rub off on the possessor. Autographs and Hollywood memorabilia come to mind as modern counterparts to this practice. And those who cannot afford the real thing have photographs or models of the real thing to show their loyalty. (Models of the Enterprise and trading cards, for example) This is a fascinating subject, is it not? Here's a question...what saint or holy person does your persona venerate, if any? Do you possess a relic of that person? This incursion into matters ecclesiastical was brought to you by: Megan == In 1994: Linda Anfuso In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: relics Date: 11 Mar 1994 04:00:27 GMT Organization: Cornell Law School > A joke oft told by Duke Cariadoc: > Q: What became of the Cedars of Lebanon? > > A: Every Crusader came home with a piece of the True Cross. > > Mikjal Annarbjorn Close: Q: Why are the hills of Lebanon bare? A: Because every Frank in Frangistan has a splinter of the true cross. Note that it is both a Frank joke and a Lebanese joke. -- David/Cariadoc DDF2 at Cornell.Edu Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:48:15 -0500 From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: pavilion exhibits ... Oh, yes! Orianna and I had a similar experience when we saw the "Treasures of San Marco" (or as we called it, the "Loot from Constantinople") exhibit at the Met in NYC. We were remarking on how some of the objects had evolved over centuries, such as beginning with a Roman carved stone bowl that had been rimmed in silver by a later owner, then put on a silver pedestal a century later, with bands of enameled medallions and semi-precious stones added at an even later date, etc. Many of the reliquaries showed similar succession in the addition of further ornamentation over long periods of time. You can watch the stylistic developments and become adept at dating the separate elements in chronological order if you pay close attention. Hertha <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris relics-msg