indulgences-msg - 4/4/04
Use of "indulgences" by the Church in period.
NOTE: See also the files: religion-msg, crusades-msg, heretics-msg, icons-msg, monks-msg, nuns-msg, relics-msg, saints-msg, rosaries-msg, popes-msg, fasts-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: ALBAN at delphi.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: indulgence
Date: 25 Apr 1997 00:49:10 -0400
Galen wanted texts of indulgences.
Medieval Sourcebook:
John II: Indulgence for Fighting the Heathen, 878
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John II to the bishops in the realm of Louis II [the Stammerer].
You have modestly expressed a desire to know whether those who
have recently died in war, fighting in defence of the church of God and
for the preservation of the Christian religion and of the state, or those
who may in the future fall in the same cause, may obtain indulgence
for their sins. We confidently reply that those who, out of love to the
Christian religion, shall die in battle fighting bravely against pagans or
unbelievers, shall receive eternal life. For the Lord has said through his
prophet: "In whatever hour a sinner shall be converted, I will
remember his sins no longer." By the intercession of St. Peter, who has
the power of binding and loosing in heaven and on the earth, we
absolve, as far as is permissible, all such and commend them by our
prayers to the Lord.
In Migne, Patrologia Latina, 126: 816
trans. Oliver J. Thatcher, and Edgar Holmes McNeal, eds., A Source
Book for Medieval History, (New York: Scribners, 1905), 512
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This text is part of the Internet Medieval Source Book. The Sourcebook
is a collection of public domain and copy-permitted texts related to
medieval and Byzantine history.
Unless otherwise indicated the specific electronic form of the
document is copyright. Permission is granted for electronic copying,
distribution in print form for educational purposes and personal use. If
you do reduplicate the document, indicate the source. No permission is
granted for commercial use.
(c)Paul Halsall Mar 1996
halsall at murray.fordham.edu
- - - - - - -
The Medieval sourcebook mentioned above, in case you haven't come
across it, is one of the Great Wonders of the Web for history buffs.
The URL, I think, is http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/
and it should contain loads and loads of stuff.
(At least, I _hope_ that's the correct URL. . . )
Alban
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:31:48 -0400
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: SC - Indulgences
> Although I remember one time, Caid was hosting a Board of Directors
meeting in early Spring, smack in the middle of Lent of course. Why a
nice J.A.P. like me was concerned about Lent, I'll never know, trying to
stay authentic for Medieval Europe I suppose. What I wound up doing was
having a 'saintly' calligrapher write up a pretty indulgance as a
centerpiece, then served the originally scheduled menu.
> Selene
I did this last year, I had made a Flathonys in Lent for our Arts and
Sciences Competition as the event was being held later than usual and was
in Lent, when I got there and realized that I had prepared the crust with
butter! I finally struck on the idea of having fra niccolo write up an
indulgence for me, which forgave my sin. I placed it alongside the
recipes and documentation. The judges liked it ;)
Christianna
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:31:00 -0400
From: "Nicholas Sasso" <NJSasso at msplaw.com>
Subject: SC - Food, Indulgences and Novens
<<<<<I did this last year, I had made a Flathonys in Lent for our Arts and
Sciences Competition as the event was being held later than usual and was
in Lent, when I got there and realized that I had prepared the crust with
butter! I finally struck on the idea of having fra niccolo write up an
indulgence for me, which forgave my sin. I placed it alongside the
recipes and documentation. The judges liked it ;)
Christianna >>>>>>
You could even add what acts you performed in acquisition of the indulgence. A Novena is a good one. I even recommend doing one to get the experience. It consists, and did in early times, of 54 rosaries done on a strict schedule without variance. The penitent decides the schedule and then adheres to it. There are more details, but that is the bare bones of it.
I am planning to embark on one with some specific goals in mind involving food allownaces and Lent. I have lots of time to get there. These can be for individuals or for groups, BTW. It is an interesting manner of experiencing that aspect of the middle ages culture personally. Many ways to 'earn' indulgences, so look for some and have fun with them.
fra niccolo difrancesco
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:00:06 -0500
From: rcmann4 at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: SC - the menu was Bidding for Feast - Winner's comments
And it came to pass on 27 Mar 01, , that Jenne Heise wrote:
> Aren't both egg and cheese forbidden under medieval lenten restrictions?
One could sometimes get indulgences for dairy products. I believe
that there's a cathedral tower in France nicknamed the "Butter
Tower" because its construction was financed by the sale of
indulgences to eat butter during Lent. Nola has a recipe for chard
with cheese, and he notes that it is good for Lent, if you have an
indulgence.
Eggs are another matter, AFAIK.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:31:56 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lent, wine, indulgences, de Nola
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
At 01:20 PM 1/20/2004, you wrote:
> So my question is, could you buy indulgences to let you drink wine
> during Lent? Was it even restricted, or am I thinking too modernly
> about alcohol?
There's a modern view that discourages wine during Lent, and as far as I
can find, the Eastern Orthodox community has always disallowed wine during
Lent. But I cannot find a medieval prohibition of wine in western Europe.
If someone else can, I'd like to see it.
On indulgences- you can't get an indulgence for something you haven't done
yet- it is only for sins already committed. You must confess the sin and be
forgiven- it is the punishment that you are avoiding by the indulgence.
*and* it can only be done for venial sins, not mortal. What an indulgence
does essentially is to reduce your punishment in purgatory- gets you
'time off for good behavior' :-)
Thus endeth the lesson. :-)
'Lainie
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:18:20 -0800 (ST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lent, wine, indulgences, de Nola
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
--- "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org> wrote:
> On indulgences- you can't get an indulgence for
> something you haven't done
> yet- it is only for sins already committed. You
> must confess the sin and be
> forgiven- it is the punishment that yu are
> avoiding by the indulgence.
> *and* it can only be done for venial sins, not
> mortal. What an indulgence
> does essentially is to reduce your punishment
> in purgatory- gets you 'time
> off for good behavior' :-)
>
> Thus endeth the lesson. :-)
>> 'Lainie
Well that was the original intent. But during
the Reformation, indulgences _were_ being sold
for future sins, sometimes unspecified future
sins, if you paid enough money. They were also
selling indulgences for dead relatives, so they
could escape purgatory. This whole subject was
one of the things that ticked Martin Luther off
and lead eventually to the Reformation.
Huette
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:24:02 -0500
From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] lent, wie, indulgences, de Nola
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
On indulgences- you can't get an indulgence for something youhaven't done
yet- it is only for sins already committed. You must confess the sin and be
forgiven- it is the punishment that you are avoiding by the indulgence.
*and* it can only be done for venial sins, not mortal. What an indulgence
does essentially s to reduce your punishment in purgatory- gets you
'time off for good behavior' :-)
Thus endeth the lesson. :-)
'Lainie
I made a version of Flathonys for an A&S contest once that was during Lent
(might have been our Midwinter A&S), and used butter, een though it was the
Lent version. In my last-minute dash to get my documentation placed and the
entry set-up, I realized my error. Since fra niccolo was in the kitchen
that weekend, I went to him and asked a favor. He wrote out an indulgence
for me for having used the butter, and I included it with my documentation.
The judges reacted favorably to it (you never know, they may not have
noticed the butter in the first place, but I felt better at least having
justified it to myself!)
I also know someoe that sold indulgences at Pennsic many years back, and
they were of the 'sin to be committed in the future' variety. I believe I
still have one for an act of lust ;)
Christianna
not that I haven't gone there, but I never throw anything away, and who
would I see about redeeming that sort of thing?
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lent, wine, indulgences, de Nola
To: Cooks within the SCA sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:08:10 -0500
> Well that was the original intent. But during
> the Reformation, indulgences _were_ being sold
> for future sins, sometimes unspecified future
> sins,if you paid enough money. They were also
> selling indulgences for dead relatives, so they
> could escape purgatory. This whole subject was
> one of the things that ticked Martin Luther off
> and lead eventually to the Reformation.
Not quite. It involvs some hair-splitting though (and sounds uncomfortably
like a certain former president). There is a remarkably wonderful website
at:http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/indulgen.htm that gives the
straight skinny on indulgences. In particular, it has his to say (about
3/4 or the way down):
Myth 6: A person can buy indulgences.
The Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting
indulgences, and, because of prior abuses, "in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled
all grants of indulgence involving any fees or other financial
transactions" (Catholic Encyclopedia). This act proved the Church's
seriousness about removing abuses from indulgences.
Myth 7: A person used to be able to buy indulgences.
One never could "buy" indulgences. The fiancial scandal around
indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his
heterodoxy, involved alms- indulgences in which the giving of alms to
some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the
indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic
Encyclopedia states: "[I]t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the
good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an
indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . It is
well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil.
To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it
Is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded."
There is quite a bit more. suffice it to say, there were abuses. There
still are, for other things. But the presence of abuses does not negate
the official doctrinal stance.
I'd have more interesting stuff, however the books I would be looking
For are... 180 miles away. As usua. *poo*
'Lainie
<the end>