Lent-msg - 10/18/06 Medieval Lenten practices and restrictions. Recreating these in the Current Middle Ages. Food restrictions. NOTE: See also the files: religion-msg, indulgences-msg, Psaltrs-Rose-lnks, Puritans-msg, fish-feast-art, fish-msg, fasts-msg, eggs-msg, vegetarian-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:22:39 -0800 From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Speaking of Lent.... To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> > -----Original Message----- > Maire, you could have got away with eating chicken soup! You > would have needed an exemption from your local bishop, but if > you were ill (or rich!) enough you would have been allowed it > for medicinal purposes. Just remember that this time! ;-D > > Lucrezia This is a piece of the Medieval Lent that should not be overlooked. It is truly amazing to read about the various many possible means of obtaining indulgences for the person and/or household. The humanitarian acts and monetary donations as well as devotional activities all carried potential for plenary or other indulgences that are quite very useful during lent. My vision is that the nobility did truly have to follow the cannon on Lenten 'fasting', but also had resources to mitigate the sacrifices needed. You might find some even more fulfilling challenges seeking out ways to obtain indulgences and performing those during your real lent this year in order to get indulgence for food options, and get a different feel for the medieval Lenten experience. If they were prevalent enough for Brother Martin to stick a dagger in the door, then they must have been pretty well utilized. Sure, money was a huge factor, but there were other means of obtaining them on your own behalf by making pilgrimages, OBSERVING SAINT VENERATION AND FEAST DAYS. You might also look into the feast days as opportunities in the Middle Ages. They had LOTs of them for real reasons . . . like lent. you may find that observance of Saints' officially sanctioned feast days sets aside the dietary restrictions . . . maybe not . . . depends on time and place. The Lenten thing is a pervasive socio-economic facet of life. I've got no sources for anything at this point, but remember finding piles about it when researching in High School. Really fill out the picture. niccolo difrancesco (yup, them Franciscans had indulgences, but not for money) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:48:03 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" <ldh at ece.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Speaking of Lent.... To: lonnie.harvel at ece.gatech.edu, Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> A much more useful site... A TI article from 2003: http://anvil.unl.edu/agnes/RecreatingLent.htm Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 06:10:19 -0800 (PST) From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten stufff, chickens, fish and vegetarians... To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Middle Eastern Lent, that is Orthodox Great Fast starts NOT on March 1st but on February 27th, the Monday before Western Ash Wednesday...Rome and the West counts the Sundays...the East does not... Also bear in mind that for the West, one might be allowed fish or other cold blooded animals on Fridays and so forth, not so in the East. According to St. John Chrysostom in the 3rd.cent. "let no food derived from any spined thing pass your lips on these days of the Great Fast..." "Keep with Joy and Feasting the Day of Resurrection, let every Sunday be filled with joy, music and feasting for all!" So that even today in the Eastern Church, both Catholic and Orthodox, one will find the observant faithful ABSTAINING from meat, but consuming dairy and egg products on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, and FASTING from all animal products on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. While Sunday, again being the Day of Resurrection, is forbidden to fast and so one might enjoy non-spined/ invertabrates and dairy, as well as foods which might have a meat broth or gravy but which is less than 1% of the dish. Abot Johann von Metten medieval poultrier Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 06:34:50 -0800 (PST) From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 33, Issue 33 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Benedicte, Indeed, the devotional practices of alms-giving and prayer vigils were not and are not a way to make excuse for the mishaps in the fasting regimes, but were/are and intrical part of the whole Great Fast/Lent experience. There are many ways to observe Lent, the sick and the young and the aged are always exempt from the fasting regime, but not from the core message of the Great Fast, to prepare for the Resurrection by an increase in devotions and depth of prayer and rightousness of life. "The Fasting and Abstainence stops the pollution, but it is by prayer and good works that one cleans the house" St. Macrina the Great, 3rd. century Ceasarea in Cappadocia Johann sca-cooks-request at ansteorra.org wrote: This is a piece of the Medieval Lent that should not be overlooked. It is truly amazing to read about the various many possible means of obtaining indulgences for the person and/or household. The humanitarian acts and monetary donations as well as devotional activities all carried potential for plenary or other indulgences that are quite very useful during lent. My vision is that the nobility did truly have to follow the cannon on Lenten 'fasting', but also had resources to mitigate the sacrifices needed. niccolo difrancesco (yup, them Franciscans had indulgences, but not for money) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:38:41 -0800 (PST) From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten ideas for non Christians... To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Benedicte, Yes, the eastern rite may consume such seafood as mentioned...on Sundays, please note that this is not a reprieve granted for the weak, but rather an understanding of the nature of the Day of Resurrection, which every Sunday is. What would/could a non Christian do as a devotion for Lent? Well, every religion has it's own prayer and meditational cycle...enhance this with the point of encouraging and meditating on the concept of new life, redemption, change from death to life, dark to light, bad to good, good to better, ect...The core concept is change and our being prepared for it. What to do? Give alms, care for the poor, encourage new growth for the benefit of others, heal old wounds, repair damaged relationships, ect... Maire, a 14th century Irish woman, you'd probably be spending additional time at church devotions, the way of the cross was just gaining popularity as a substitute for the dangerous pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Collecting and dispersing alms to the poor and indigent of the area, helping those who might already be doing so. You might also use this time to sort seeds and decide your poultry breeding stock, even if you lived in town you'd have a few hens... Johann ------------------------------ Non-spined/invertebrates would include things like bivalves and crustaceans, right? That would give the eastern-rite folks some fishy things, for sure! I'm not actually sure if I'm going to do the Sunday-as-a-reprieve-from-fasting or not. I'd like to see if I can do the whole 40 days, since my persona is quite distinctly religious, enough so, that I don't think I'd be fudging it for anything except dire need (illness or some such). --Maire, who finds it odd but amusing that *she* is deeply religious and Sue, who pays the bills, is also deeply religious, but one is Catholic, and the other, Wiccan Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:56:20 -0800 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lenten stufff, chickens, fish and vegetarians... To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Abot Johann von Metten wroter: > Middle Eastern Lent, that is Orthodox Great Fast starts NOT on March > 1st but on February 27th, the Monday before Western Ash > Wednesday...Rome and the West counts the Sundays...the East does > not... > > Also bear in mind that for the West, one might be allowed fish or > other cold blooded animals on Fridays and so forth, not so in the > East. According to St. John Chrysostom in the 3rd.cent. "let no food > derived from any spined thing pass your lips on these days of the > Great Fast..." "Keep with Joy and Feasting the Day of Resurrection, > let every Sunday be filled with joy, music and feasting for all!" > > So that even today in the Eastern Church, both Catholic and > Orthodox, one will find the observant faithful ABSTAINING from meat, > but consuming dairy and egg products on Tuesdays, Thursdays and > Saturdays, and FASTING from all animal products on Mondays, > Wednesdays, and Fridays. While Sunday, again being the Day of > Resurrection, is forbidden to fast and so one might enjoy non > spined/invertabrates and dairy, as well as foods which might have a > meat broth or gravy but which is less than 1% of the dish. I know you are quite knowledgeable about the Eastern Orthodox Church, and i expect what you wrote to be true in Byzantium. But in the Near East (Egypt, Syria, etc.) there were many different Christian sects, some of which are there to this day. Their practices "in period" were a little different from the Eastern Church, although i don't have lots of details. I know that fish recipes (one of which i made last year - fish with sesame paste sauce) are included in the Lenten recipes in The Book of the Description of Familiar Food. The book also says that any normal recipes can be made in Lent, as long as meat is not included. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris Lent-msg Page 5 of 5