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Lent-msg – 2/25/15

 

Medieval Lenten practices and restrictions. Recreating these in the Current Middle Ages.  Food restrictions.

 

NOTE: See also the files: religion-msg, indulgences-msg, Psaltrs-Rose-lnks, Puritans-msg, fish-feast-art, fish-msg, fasts-msg, eggs-msg, vegetarian-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:22:39 -0800

From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Speaking of Lent....

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> -----Original Message-----

> Maire, you could have got away with eating chicken soup! You

> would have needed an exemption from your local bishop, but if

> you were ill (or rich!) enough you would have been allowed it

> for medicinal purposes. Just remember that this time! ;-D

> Lucrezia

 

This is a piece of the Medieval Lent that should not be overlooked.  It is

truly amazing to read about the various many possible means of obtaining

indulgences for the person and/or household.  The humanitarian acts and

monetary donations as well as devotional activities all carried potential

for plenary or other indulgences that are quite very useful during lent.  My

vision is that the nobility did truly have to follow the cannon on Lenten

'fasting', but also had resources to mitigate the sacrifices needed.

 

You might find some even more fulfilling challenges seeking out ways to

obtain indulgences and performing those during your real lent this year in

order to get indulgence for food options, and get a different feel for the

medieval Lenten experience.

 

If they were prevalent enough for Brother Martin to stick a dagger in the

door, then they must have been pretty well utilized.  Sure, money was a huge

factor, but there were other means of obtaining them on your own behalf by

making pilgrimages, OBSERVING SAINT VENERATION AND FEAST DAYS.  You might

also look into the feast days as opportunities in the Middle Ages.  They had

LOTs of them for real reasons . . . like lent.  you may find that observance

of Saints' officially sanctioned feast days sets aside the dietary

restrictions . . . maybe not . . . depends on time and place.

 

The Lenten thing is a pervasive socio-economic facet of life.  I've got no

sources for anything at this point, but remember finding piles about it when

researching in High School.  Really fill out the picture.

 

niccolo difrancesco

(yup, them Franciscans had indulgences, but not for money)

 

 

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:48:03 -0500

From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" <ldh at ece.gatech.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Speaking of Lent....

To: lonnie.harvel at ece.gatech.edu,   Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

A much more useful site... A TI article from 2003:

http://anvil.unl.edu/agnes/RecreatingLent.htm

 

 

Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 06:10:19 -0800 (PST)

From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten stufff, chickens, fish and vegetarians...

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Middle Eastern Lent, that is Orthodox Great Fast starts NOT on March  

1st but on February 27th, the Monday before Western Ash  

Wednesday...Rome and the West counts the Sundays...the East does not...

 

   Also bear in mind that for the West, one might be allowed fish or  

other cold blooded animals on Fridays and so forth, not so in the  

East. According to St. John Chrysostom in the 3rd.cent. "let no food  

derived from any spined thing pass your lips on these days of the  

Great Fast..." "Keep with Joy and Feasting the Day of Resurrection,  

let every Sunday be filled with joy, music and feasting for all!"

 

   So that even today in the Eastern Church, both Catholic and  

Orthodox, one will find the observant faithful ABSTAINING from meat,  

but consuming dairy and egg products on Tuesdays, Thursdays and  

Saturdays, and FASTING from all animal products on Mondays,  

Wednesdays, and Fridays. While Sunday, again being the Day of  

Resurrection, is forbidden to fast and so one might enjoy non-spined/

invertabrates and dairy, as well as foods which might have a meat  

broth or gravy but which is less than 1% of the dish.

 

   Abot Johann von Metten

   medieval poultrier

 

 

Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 06:34:50 -0800 (PST)

From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 33, Issue 33

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Benedicte,

   Indeed, the devotional practices of alms-giving and prayer vigils  

were not and are not a way to make excuse for the mishaps in the  

fasting regimes, but were/are and intrical part of the whole Great  

Fast/Lent experience.

 

   There are many ways to observe Lent, the sick and the young and  

the aged are always exempt from the fasting regime, but not from the  

core message of the Great Fast, to prepare for the Resurrection by an  

increase in devotions and depth of prayer and rightousness of life.

 

   "The Fasting and Abstainence stops the pollution, but it is by  

prayer and good works that one cleans the house"

   St. Macrina the Great, 3rd. century Ceasarea in Cappadocia

 

   Johann

 

sca-cooks-request at ansteorra.org wrote:

   This is a piece of the Medieval Lent that should not be  

overlooked. It is

truly amazing to read about the various many possible means of obtaining

indulgences for the person and/or household. The humanitarian acts and

monetary donations as well as devotional activities all carried potential

for plenary or other indulgences that are quite very useful during lent. My

vision is that the nobility did truly have to follow the cannon on Lenten

'fasting', but also had resources to mitigate the sacrifices needed.

 

niccolo difrancesco

(yup, them Franciscans had indulgences, but not for money)

 

 

Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:38:41 -0800 (PST)

From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten ideas for non Christians...

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Benedicte,

   Yes, the eastern rite may consume such seafood as mentioned...on  

Sundays, please note that this is not a reprieve granted for the  

weak, but rather an understanding of the nature of the Day of  

Resurrection, which every Sunday is.

 

   What would/could a non Christian do as a devotion for Lent? Well,  

every religion has it's own prayer and meditational cycle...enhance  

this with the point of encouraging and meditating on the concept of  

new life, redemption, change from death to life, dark to light, bad  

to good, good to better, ect...The core concept is change and our  

being prepared for it. What to do? Give alms, care for the poor,  

encourage new growth for the benefit of others, heal old wounds,  

repair damaged relationships, ect...

 

   Maire, a 14th century Irish woman, you'd probably be spending  

additional time at church devotions, the way of the cross was just  

gaining popularity as a substitute for the dangerous pilgrimage to  

Jerusalem. Collecting and dispersing alms to the poor and indigent of  

the area, helping those who might already be doing so. You might also  

use this time to sort seeds and decide your poultry breeding stock,  

even if you lived in town you'd have a few hens...

 

   Johann

 

   ------------------------------

 

Non-spined/invertebrates would include things like bivalves and crustaceans,

right? That would give the eastern-rite folks some fishy things, for sure!

I'm not actually sure if I'm going to do the Sunday-as-a-reprieve-from-fasting or not. I'd like to see if I can do the whole 40 days, since my persona is quite distinctly religious, enough so, that I don't think I'd be fudging it for anything except dire need (illness

or some such).

 

--Maire, who finds it odd but amusing that *she* is deeply religious and

Sue, who pays the bills, is also deeply religious, but one is Catholic, and

the other, Wiccan

 

 

Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:56:20 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lenten stufff, chickens, fish and

        vegetarians...

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Abot Johann von Metten wroter:

> Middle Eastern Lent, that is Orthodox Great Fast starts NOT on March

> 1st but on February 27th, the Monday before Western Ash

> Wednesday...Rome and the West counts the Sundays...the East does

> not...

>   Also bear in mind that for the West, one might be allowed fish or

> other cold blooded animals on Fridays and so forth, not so in the

> East. According to St. John Chrysostom in the 3rd.cent. "let no food

> derived from any spined thing pass your lips on these days of the

> Great Fast..." "Keep with Joy and Feasting the Day of Resurrection,

> let every Sunday be filled with joy, music and feasting for all!"

>   So that even today in the Eastern Church, both Catholic and

> Orthodox, one will find the observant faithful ABSTAINING from meat,

> but consuming dairy and egg products on Tuesdays, Thursdays and

> Saturdays, and FASTING from all animal products on Mondays,

> Wednesdays, and Fridays. While Sunday, again being the Day of

> Resurrection, is forbidden to fast and so one might enjoy non

> spined/invertabrates and dairy, as well as foods which might have a

> meat broth or gravy but which is less than 1% of the dish.

 

I know you are quite knowledgeable about the Eastern Orthodox Church,

and i expect what you wrote to be true in Byzantium. But in the Near

East (Egypt, Syria, etc.) there were many different Christian sects,

some of which are there to this day. Their practices "in period" were

a little different from the Eastern Church, although i don't have

lots of details. I know that fish recipes (one of which i made last

year - fish with sesame paste sauce) are included in the Lenten

recipes in The Book of the Description of Familiar Food.

 

The book also says that any normal recipes can be made in Lent, as

long as meat is not included.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:51:33 -0500

From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lent Approaches

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I'm working on my next Living History class feast for Thursday, and since it

is so close to Mardis Gras, I'm going to do two courses, one for Shrove

Tuesday, and one for Lent.

 

In the past we've discussed variations such as eating a period but not

necessarily Lenten diet; giving up dairy, eggs and meat but not sugar,

alcohol, etc; doing just one week such as Holy Week (last week before

Easter); etc.

 

Since I'm the French Toast Laurel(TM), I am going to embrace the whole

pancake/waffle/French toast concept for the Shrove Tuesday course. I was

thinking Golden Balls would be a good choice.

 

I have a hard time believing this story isn't apocryphal, but I have  

found it in several areas and it does sound like a good activity for the  

class:

 

In England there are several celebrations on this day but perhaps the best

known one is the Pancake Day Race at Olney in Buckinghamshire which has been

held since 1445. The race came about when a woman cooking pancakes heard the

shriving bell summoning her to confession. She ran to church wearing her

apron and still holding her frying pan, and thus without knowing it,  

started a tradition that has lasted for over five hundred years.

 

According to the current rules, only women wearing a dress, no slacks or

jeans, an apron and a hat or scarf, may take part in the race. Each

contestant has a frying pan containing a hot, cooking pancake. She must toss

it three times during the race that starts at the market square at 11.55 am.

The winner is the first woman to complete the winding 375 meter course (the

record is 63 seconds set in 1967) and arrive at the church, serve her

pancake to the bellringer and be kissed by him. She also receives a prayer

book from the vicar.

 

Also for my class, I found this Lenten Alms Jar activity on a Christian

site, I think we may do some sort of variation on it:

 

Lenten Alms Jar

 

This alms jar performs the two-fold purpose of demonstrating to children the

importance of almsgiving and contributing money to the poor.

 

Directions

 

The whole family can enter into the spirit of saving for alms. A glass jar

is placed at the center of the table on Ash Wednesday, and all the money

each family member saves as a result of self-denial from smoking, eating

candy, going to movies or similar activities is put into it. The mother,

buying simpler and cheaper foods for Lenten meals, puts the difference into

the jar at meal time - so all can see where the cost of the dessert went!

The children spend the first weeks of Lent investigating needy causes and

charitable organizations and missions. They will have the responsibility of

determining who gets the alms-fund.

 

Christianna

 

 

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:23:07 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lent Approaches

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Sorry to play spoiler. I looked this up and it's probably more urban

myth or folklore than period.

 

"The most famous, at Olney (Buckinghamshire) claims as its origin legend

that back in 1445 a woman rushed off to church on hearing the shriving

bell, still holding her frying pan. Its real age is hard to establish.

It is not mentioned in Wright and Lones, which must mean not only that

it was not held in the 1930s but that there were no references to it in

older works. What is certain is that soon after the Second World War the

vicar "revived" it..."

 

They point out that they made it nicely 500 years 1445-1945.... which

makes the dating even more suspect.

 

"pancake races" /A Dictionary of English Folklore/. Jacqueline Simpson

and Steve Roud. Oxford University Press, 2000. /Oxford Reference  

Online/.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:08:37 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] weird question - honey fast???

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

More from

  Google Books this evening

 

The Festal Year; Or, The Origin, History, Ceremonies and Meaning of the

Sundays, Seasons, Feasts and Festivals of the Church During the Year,

Explained for the People: Or, The Origin, History, Ceremonies and

Meaning of the Sundays, Seasons, Feasts and Festivals of the Church

During the Year ...

By James Luke Meagher

Published by Russell Brothers, 1883

 

Among the Greeks and the nations of the west of Asia,

on Septuagesima Sunday they published the rules and

regulations of Lent. From the following Monday they

use no meat, but eat what they call "White Meats," as

eggs, cheese, butter and things of that kind, while on the

Monday before Ash Wednesday, their Lent begins with

all its rigors. From that time they eat neither meat,

eggs, cheese or even fish. The only things allowed are

bread, fruits, honey, and for those who live near the sea,

shell-fish. Wine, for a long time forbidden, is drank no

more among them.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 18:48:01 -0800

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fasting for Lent

 

Liutgard said:

<<< I'm doing the full-out medieval fast. No meat, dairy, eggs. And I'm not

planning to cheat with soy-based fake food. I'm going to see if I can

eventually work my way into the 'one meal plus collation',>>>

 

Huh? What do you mean by "the 'one meal plus collation'"? collation?

=============

 

The 'collation' is a snack or very light meal before bed. Here's what

the Catholic Encyclopedia at New Advent says about it:

 

Still more material was the relaxation afforded by the introduction of

"collation". This seems to have begun in the ninth century, when the

Council of Aix la Chapelle

<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01001a.htm#councils> sanctioned the

concession, even in monastic houses

<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04340c.htm>;, of a draught of water or

other beverage in the evening to quench the thirst of those who were

exhausted by the manual labor of the day. From this small beginning a

much larger indulgence was gradually evolved. The principle of

/parvitas materiae/, i.e., that a small quantity of nourishment which

was not taken directly as a meal did not break the fast

<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm>;, was adopted by St.

Thomas Aquinas <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm>; and other

theologians <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14580a.htm>;, and in the

course of centuries a recognized quantity of solid food, which

according to received authorities must not exceed eight ounces, has

come to be permitted after the midday repast. As this evening drink,

when first tolerated in the ninth-century monasteries

<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04340c.htm>;, was taken at the hour at

which the "Collationes" (Conferences) of Abbot Cassian

<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03404a.htm>; were being read aloud to

the brethren, this slight indulgence came to be known as a

"collation", and the name has continued since.

 

Liutgard

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:14:12 -0500 (EST)

From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving

        modern food at SCA...

 

<<< In a message dated 1/31/2013 6:59:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  

lcm at jeffnet.org writes:

In the  8th c the rules were much more stringent, and I've not been able

to find  the beginning point of relaxation/allowances/indulgences. Not to

say they  aren't there later, just that I am still looking. >>>

 

They are in fact ungodly complicated. Birds for a while were permitted,  

since they were created on the same day as fish. Under Charlemagne, monks  

were allowed to have pork fat since oil was difficult to get in some  regions,

but dairy became forbidden. Etc.

 

Le Grand d'Aussy wrote several long sections on this in his history of  

French food, which I've translated as "Catholic Fasting in France from the  

Franks to the Eighteenth Century".

 

Jim Chevallier

 

 

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:47:29 -0800

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving

        modern food at SCA...

 

On 1/31/2013 7:14 AM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:

<<< They are in fact ungodly complicated. Birds for a while were permitted,

since they were created on the same day as fish. Under Charlemagne, monks

were allowed to have pork fat since oil was difficult to get in some  regions,

but dairy became forbidden. Etc.

 

Le Grand d'Aussy wrote several long sections on this in his history of

French food, which I've translated as "Catholic Fasting in France from the

Franks to the Eighteenth Century".

 

Jim Chevallier >>>

 

Do you have documentation for the allowance of pork fat and of birds?

The pork fat I have not seen but it is plausible, though I've never seen

it show up in any of the medieval Lenten recipes; and Socrates in the

5th c (not the guy who drank hemlock) allowed birds, but he is and

outlier- everyone else, from Augustine down, is quite explicit in

banning the flesh of birds.

 

And I'm afraid that 18th c practices are not relevant here.

 

Liutgard

 

 

Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 00:05:10 -0500 (EST)

From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving

        modern food at SCA...

 

Le Grand's work amply documents the use of birds, the allowance of pork  

fat, etc. (he says somewhere that he is as much a compiler as a writer).

Gregory de Tours (6th century) was served a boiled fowl (with chickpeas) to

accommodate his abstinent diet.

 

"It was comforting enough for the Monks of these  former times to mortify

themselves, in eating all these dainty birds, domestic  or other. Nonetheless

the Church in the end found that such food was a sensual  indulgence ill

suited to people who, by their oath, had devoted themselves to an  austere

life. In 817, the Council of Aix la Chapelle forbid it them except four  days

at Easter and four days at Christmas; yet they allowed those who, as a  

penance, wanted even then to abstain from it, to do as they  pleased....

 

....the Canon of the Council of Aix la Chapelle was only a  rule of reform,

set exclusively for the Regular Canons. It did not change how  most people

thought about birds. They continued to regard them as  fish..."

 

"In 817, when the Council of Aix la Chapelle forbade Regular  Canons the

use of poultry, as I have noted above, it allowed them that of fat,  to

indemnify them for this deprivation; nonetheless it excepted from its  permission every Friday of the year, the octave of Christmas, and all of Lent;  ut Fratres aliquid pinguedinis habeant; excepto sext? feri?, etc. [?that the  

Brethren have some fat; except on the sixth day, etc.?]"

 

Here is how he sums up the situation as he saw it from his Old  Regime

perspective:

 

"If it was possible to restore to Life for an instant  someone who no

longer lives, it would be a Spectacle quite worthy of a  Philosopher's eyes to

seat at the same table a Monk of the VIIIth century, a  Monk of the XIVth, and

one of ours and to serve all three what, in their  different times, and

according to the regime of their same Rule, constituted and  constitutes their

fasting food. One would see the last think to keep a severe  abstinence in

eating eggs, butter and milk-meat; the second regard these  substances as

meat and abstain from them with horror; the first to the contrary  would join

to them without scruple a fowl, a partridge, vegetables or greens  seasoned

with fat or bacon. What a horrible scandal they would cause each other!  How

they would mutually condemn each other to excommunication. Alas! Let us  

condemn no one. The history of a people's customs is only, strictly speaking,  

the history of its contradictions. Who knows if our own, one day, will not

be criticized by future centuries; if our nephews, when they read that we

did not  dare to eat a duck on a fast day, while we ate a scoter duck and a

water hen,  will not be as shocked as we are today when we see that our

Ancestors abstained,  on the same days, from beef and pork, and yet fed themselves with vegetables  prepared with fat and bacon."

 

His work also includes other surprises, such as the fact that in the same  

period Saturday was made a fast day (despite previous objections - which I

don't believe he mentions - that this was "Judaizing"). Few Catholics today

I think  know that it still is: "the Roman Pontiffs have constantly refused

to abrogate  the law of abstaining on Saturday."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm

 

So yes, birds (and eggs) were eaten for a long time by people avoiding meat

and yes a Church council authorized eating fat. In the medieval era.

 

Jim Chevallier

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 16:54:00 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sundays in Lent

 

<<< I've been studying feast menus from around the time of Henry V, and

have a question about them. Both Henry V and his bride Catherine of

Valois were apparently crowned in Lent, and if I have the dates right

(this depends on whether my sources agree on how to handle

Julian-Gregorian conversion), they were both crowned on Sundays.

 

My question is this: Both feasts were almost entirely of fish, with

one or two dishes of flesh. Does this mean that these Sundays were

fish days, and flesh was included by dispensation, or did most of each

menu amount to a voluntary fast?

--

Henry/Alex >>>

 

Answer may be this--

"The answer is that all of those 46 days are within Lent, yet not all of them are of Lent, in the sense that they are supposed to be days of fasting and penance. In the past, Christians observed Lent by imitating Christ's 40 days in the desert. As He fasted for 40 days, so did they. (See "Reader Question: Observing Lent Before Vatican II.") Today, the Church only requires Western Catholics to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

From the very earliest days, the Church has declared that Sunday, the day of Christ's Resurrection, is always a feast day, and therefore fasting is forbidden. Since there are six Sundays within Lent, we have to subtract them from the days of fasting. Forty-six minus six is forty.

 

That's why, in the West, Lent starts on Ash Wednesday--to allow a full 40 days of fasting before Easter Sunday."

 

http://catholicism.about.com/b/2008/02/29/reader-question-should-we-fast-on-sundays.htm

 

Within Lent, not all days were fast days.  Sundays are feast days in all Catholic churches, so the forty day fast was broken with a respite each Sunday (Cowie and Gummer ).  In the early church Saturday was excluded also, so there were fewer fast days in Lent.  Eastern Orthodox Christians maintained the pattern of excluding Saturday and Sunday, except for Holy Saturday, so they had  36 not 40 fast days (Cowie and Gummer ) (Henisch  p.31-32). http://keeleranderson.net/Hello/Lent/RecreatingLent.htm

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 16:10:25 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sundays in Lent

 

During the Middle Ages, the Western Church followed the Roman practice of

observing forty weekdays of fasting (one meal a day generally taken after

sundown, although this was not a hard and fast rule) broken by Sundays.

Even on Sundays meat and milk products were prohibited.  So the coronation

meals likely represent normal Sunday fare with dispensation for the meat

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 03:08:45 -0700

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sundays in Lent

 

As I've noted several times over the past couple of years, Lent was not

a fixed thing- it varied a great deal, mostly depending on where you

were, when you were, who your local bishop was and how hard-assed he

was, if you were a cleric, etc etc etc. *In general* things progressed

from very strict to somewhat more lax, until late in the middle ages you

could basically buy your way out of a great deal of Lenten observances.

 

The degree of Sunday observance varied a great deal, it would appear.

Things were quite strict in the early church and early middle ages. Lent

might be much longer than the familiar 40 days, and the foodstuffs

allowed were very narrow, any day of the week. In fact, there were even

a 'dry fast', which had not only rather spartan food offerings, but also

was to include *no water*, and restriction on watery foods. (Appears to

have been a short-lived practice, thank God.) The general rule set in

the 5th c was basic- no meat, no eggs, no dairy. There is some

contention as to the nature of a relaxation of the rules for Sunday

(sometimes including Saturdays and Saints' days). The meals could be

fancier, more elaborate, and also with bigger portions. (Lenten portions

would put an anorexic to shame.) In the 14th and 15th centuries there

seems to have been eggs and dairy allowed on Sunday; meat is still iffy.

*However*, I've been studying the observances of Lent for several years

now, as some of you know, and I as of yet have not been able to find any

specific statutory relaxation or decretal/ordinance of the rules for

Sundays. Nothing. So I can't say for sure when- or indeed even *if* this

happened. This is the source of no small frustration, because as an 8th

c person, things are pretty strict.

 

During Lent I observe the full fast, though I allow myself three meals

on Sunday as opposed to the two that was common practice, and I keep to

it also on Saints' days. This is a royal pain in the neck, and a great

challenge. It is also an interesting experience in that I get a taste-

even just six weeks- of religious observance and life in my time period.

This last spring though I had to drop out two weeks early, as I was ill.

The infirm, very young, or very old were allowed exceptions, and I took

it. I might be a crazy medievalist, but I'm not stupid.

 

Liutgard

 

 

Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:35:47 -0400 (EDT)

From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sundays in Lent

 

lcm at jeffnet.org  writes:

<<< The general rule set in

the 5th c was basic- no meat, no eggs, no  dairy. There is some

contention as to the nature of a relaxation of the  rules for Sunday

(sometimes including Saturdays and Saints' days). >>>

 

As I've previously mentioned, in France the situation was more nuanced.  

People ate birds for a long time, since they were created on the same day as  

fish in the Bible. Charlemagne found it perfectly normal to eat cheese on a

fast day.

 

In response to Greek critiques of French fasting, Hincmar wrote in  867

(when French observance was already more strict): ?They try to fault us  

because we do not abstain from eating meat eight weeks before Easter or cheese  

and eggs seven weeks before, as they do.?

 

Le Grand d'Aussy:

 

"Eudes advances, to excuse us, that Christian abstinence is a custom  which

varies according to the place and church. "In Italy, he says, one abstains, for three days of the week, from all food cooked with fire because  this country abounds in excellent fruit of every sort. In regions which do not have available their excellent fruits, all foods are cooked by fire. In Germany, one cannot do without eggs, milk, butter and cheese; although some people deprive themselves of these voluntarily. Finally, there are people who, even on  Friday and Holy Thursday, eat eggs and dairy as usual."

 

In regard to eggs, it is not surprising that people ate them without  

scruple. Opinion having established that fowl were meager [that is, not meat],  

of the same nature as fish, it was considered as a result that the egg too

laid by this fowl was meager. The certificate of Charles the Bald [823 -

877], in favor of the St. Denis Abbey, allows this Monastery, among other

things, eleven  hundred eggs, annually, on the three great feast-days of the y

ear; and we know  that the Benedictine Order always abstains from meat. " "

 

The principle on Sundays seemed to be not so much a relaxation as the idea

that it should be a day for rejoicing because it was the Lord's Day.

 

Le Grand d'Aussy:

"Today, we do not fast on Sundays or Lent, out of respect for this day

which we regard particularly as a day of rejoicing. Then not only did one not

fast on Sundays, but what is more one ate meat. A life of St. Sor [?],

printed by F. Labbe in his Biblioth?que, proves that in the tenth  c. this

custom continued; since the Saint, on this day, ate stag with his own people."

 

Jim Chevallier

 

<the end>



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