woad-msg - 1/30/08
The history of woad. Using woad to dye plants, animals and humans. Making dyes from woad.
NOTE: See also these files: dyeing-msg, tattoos-msg, Picts-msg, urine-uses-msg, mordants-msg, dye-list-art.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Chaz Butler
Re: Woad
Date: 25 Apr 91
Woad, the real stuff.
You should be able to get woad from almost any good herbal supply house; however, please remember that it is a PERMANENT STAIN. It does NOT wash off with soap and water but only through wear. If you want to PAINT A PICT that is fine, but remember only to paint those areas that will not show beyond mundane street clothes unless you work in a non-9 to 5 job.
* Origin: Aronson Consulting: TIDMADT 703-370-7054, voice x6508 (1:109/120)
From: winifred at trillium.soe.umich.EDU (Lee Katman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: woad from seed to dye
Date: 14 Mar 1993 23:02:17 -0500
There is a book by Jamieson Hurry called Woad Plant and its Dye.
I have not read it, but it was recommended to me. Here's a quote
of a review:
"scholarly and fascinating study of the woad plant. chapters include
cultivation, manufacture of woad, the woad mill, the woad vat,
extraction of Indican from woad and more. 238 pages, illustrations."
2 years ago, it was $42.50 (US) from Creek Water Wool Works
PO Box 716, Salem Oregon, 97308, (503) 585-3302. No doubt you
can get it from a bookshop that special orders.
These folks also have a nice selection of other books on dyeing and
spinning and weaving. Their catalogue is $4.00.
Winifred
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cooking fires
From: bloodthorn at sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 03:35:35 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.
Fiacha wrote:
> Cooking sites are well known in Irish archeology. They consist of the
> firepit, a collection of fired stones, a cooking pit and access to water.
> The assumption is that the cooking pit was filled with water and the
> stones were heated in the fire. The hot stones were then placed in the
> cooking pit until the water was boiling. At this point the food was
> placed in the boiling water and more stones were added as necessary to
> keep the water boiling until the food was cooked.
This technique was also used in woad dyeing to keep the vessel warm enough
for fermentation but not so hot that it boiled. Interesting overlaps, but
what advantages did it have for cooking? Hmmm... I visited one of my
survivalist friends last month who told me how to use this technique to boil
water held in an animal skin when you didn't have a metal kettle, but if they
were putting the stones into a metal vessel it seems a bit unecessary. Any
ideas why the technique was used?
Thank you for the information.
Pagan
________________________________________________________________________
Jennifer Geard bloodthorn at sloth.equinox.gen.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re:Woad
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 10:50:14 EST
Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op
from Megan to all who sing the blues:
A good sourcebook for woad recipes is The Dyer's Companion, by Elijah
Bemiss, Dover books, ISBN 0-486-20601-6. Although it is OOP (1815) it
contains good workable recipes that have stood the test of time. The
field vat for woad has been reproduced sucessfully at Pennsic...if enough
people have an interest in it we can do it again this year. Let me know
in advance so I can bring my dye pot. We will need volunteers to sit it
and monitor the temperature for at least 2 days, around the clock. Ah,
those midnight woad revels..."is it soup yet, Mom?" "Wake up Gwennis,
time to stir the woad!" "Ah, excuse me, but I just happened to be passing
by...can you tell me what you are cooking in there? It smells like piss."
"It is."
Oh yes..the Order of the Blue Chemise.("Opps! Splashed some there. Oh
well, I'll just throw the whole chemise in the vat. I wonder, are blue
chemises period?" "For dyers, possibly" "Well, only the clumsy ones".
Woad is me.
Megan
==
In 1994: Linda Anfuso
In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive
In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644
From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for Woad in all the wrong places...
Date: Wed, 04 May 94 00:01:26 EDT
Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op
slv3m at cc.usu.edu writes:
> In article <2pjsf9$pcf at pdq.coe.montana.edu>, michelle at xph029.oscs.montana.edu
> >
> > I've just been checking all my files, and noticed that my address for
> > get woad (Or the makings therof, the nonhallucinogenic kind as I don't wann
> > the Feds) got nuked along with some other mail of mine. I was hoping someo
> > Rialto would know where I can get some? (Preferably close to home, home bei
> > MT. But I'm willing to do mail order) Phah...just the time of year I actua
> > running around with blue spirals and not much else, I can't get the stuff!!
> > *Insert me bonking my head on the keyboard and cursing my stupidity...bonk!
> >
> > Magdalena Vladimirovna Krasnov, MoAS of the Shire of Silverkeep.
> > ("Whaddayamean, I'm MoAS? My butt isn't THAT big, is it? )
>
> Magdalena,
>
> I live in Utah. The place is inundated with Dyer's wode that was first
> brought over by the mornon settlers. I have no idea if this is the right
> kind, but can find out the genus and species name for you if this will help.
> This is the raw plant however, not the refined dye.
>
> In service,
> Gillian de Raveley
> Shire of Cote du Ciel
> Artemisia, Atenvelt
Megan the Woad monger here.
If you want to process your indiginous woad (gosh, what a great pun!) I
would refer you to The Dyer's Handbook, by Elijah Bemiss, from Dover
Books.
If you want to purchase some already processed woad, I import the real
thing from Scotland, and can sell it to you by mail. $ 4.00 per half
ounce, which when ground to a fine powder and mixed with rubbing alcohol
makes a fine body paint,NON HALLUCINIGENIC. One half ounce can do one
large person twice or two medium people once. I have been selling it for
over 10 years at Pennsic, with no complaints.
You can also use it for dyeing. :-)
Megan
==
In 1994: Linda Anfuso
In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive
In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644
From: gwennis at infinet.com (Gwennis Mooncat)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Oh woad is me....
Date: 5 Nov 1994 03:19:26 GMT
Organization: dyes are us
Peter Rose (WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU) wrote:
: Since you've brought it up, what *IS* the process necesary to
: get dye from woad?
to begin with, only first year plants produce indigotin. the second year, it
all goes into producing flowers/seeds.
you collect the leaves from around the base of the plant. stuff them into a
jar. pack it in. pour boiling water over them. cover. leave about 45
minutes. carefully pour off the liquid [which should be brownish] squeeze
out the leaves and dispose of them.
after that, you need to pour the liquid back and forth between two jars or
whatever to develop the indigo. then you will need to process the bath as
for regular indigo, i.e., a fermentation process or a chemical tank. [stale
urine or sodium hydroxide and lye]
this is a complex process, and i would heartliy suggest to anyone
considering it to read up. there are several books on the market that have
the info. i would start with rita buchanan, "a weaver's garden". there is
also a booklet put out byt the brooklyn botanical gardens that has an
article by rita with useful info in it. only a few years old, but i don't
have it handy right nonw [i loaned it out]. also, look for j.n. liles, "the
art and craft of natural dyeing".
using woad and indigo is somewhat smellier and messier than other dyestuffs.
i recommend doing it outdoors.
gwennis
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mistress gwynydd ni gelligaer, ol, called gwennis
tarkhanum, khanate basking lizard, great darke horde
shire of tirnewydd, barony middle marches, midrealm, aka columbus, oh
member #34497, society for creative anachronism .sigfile v. 1.03
email: gwennis at infinet.com since the info was requested...8-)
From: gwennis at infinet.com (Gwennis Mooncat)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Oh woad is me....
Date: 8 Nov 1994 07:24:27 GMT
Michael A. Chance (mchance at crl.com) wrote:
: Something that I've yet to see anyone mention here: Before planting
: any woad seeds/plants, check with your local agricultural authorities.
: In many areas of the U.S., at least, woad is illegal to grow
: intentionally, having been declared a "pernicious weed".
yes, i had forgotten this. one way to prevent potential problems is to wrap
the seed heads in cheesecloth before they develop completely. catch all the
seeds for your next crop. if they can't blow away, they can't become a
pest.
gwennis
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mistress gwynydd ni gelligaer, ol, called gwennis natural dyes maven
tarkhanum, khanate basking lizard, great darke horde i have 2 cats 8)
shire of tirnewydd, barony middle marches, midrealm columbus, ohio
member #34497 society for creative anachronism usenet: rec.org.sca
email: gwennis at infinet.com wizard at sanctuary: telnet 198.30.154.3 7200
From: gwennis at infinet.com (Gwennis Mooncat)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: a woad question
Date: 13 May 1995 04:04:34 GMT
Emily Sue Pinnell (esp at cup.portal.com) wrote:
: Greetings gardeners & craftspeople!
: Has anyone worked with fresh woad? I have some in my garden, and
: tried the directions in Rita Buchanan's _A Weaver's Garden_ to dye
: some white wool, but have only gotten a lovely grey (not what I wanted).
: Any hints, clues, even failed experiences? Is it worth devoting a large
: chunk of plant space to these woad/weeds? If I can get blue without
: having to make woad balls first...
greetings: i suspect that perhaps you were using second year plants, that
had already flowered? the strength of the plant goes into making seed, not
dye the second year. you must use first year plants only for good color.
you should be able to get good color from rita's directions. i will add that
i have done urine tanks, and they are quite slow to dye. mine took almost a
week to get good color on my wool, with repeated dippings of up to 24 hours
with a similar airing inbetween dips. and woad is less strong than
concentrated indigo that you purchase. however, i have a friend growing
plants for me this year and i hope for a good crop. if you have the space,
try it. you should be able to get several harvests from it over the season.
good luck. hope this helps. please drop me a note if you need more help,
and let me know how it turns out.
gwennis
**************************************************************************
mistress gwynydd ni gelligaer, ol, called gwennis natural dyes maven
tarkhanum, khanate basking lizard, great darke horde i have 2 cats 8)
shire of tirnewydd, barony middle marches, midrealm columbus, ohio
member #34497 society for creative anachronism usenet: rec.org.sca
email: gwennis at infinet.com
From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Anyone seen Braveheart yet?
Date: 26 May 1995 17:39:03 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
sclark at blues.epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark) writes:
|> Someone was running around before the field battle the last time
|> I was at Pennsic painting woad trilliums on all the Ealdormerians. I
|> had one on my hand, and can confirm a dark, indigo-coloured blue.
The pure pigment in woad will indeed be a deep, indigo blue because,
coincidentally, the 'indigo' plants (there are a number of species)
and woad contain chemically identical pigments. Indigo displaced woad
in industrial dyeing because the indigo plant contains much higher
concentrations of the pigment, and so the extraction is less labourious.
However, once you extract the pigment from the plant, there is little to
no difference between indigo and woad.
Just to be nit-picky, and show off my recently acquired knowledge of dyestuffs,
it should be noted that technically, you don't really 'dye' your skin with
woad unless you are using a strong chemical reducing agent and
are working fast, or you actually immerse yourself in a working woad
vat. This is because indigo/woad works by a reduction/oxidation process.
The blue pigment is insoluble, and must be reduced (either chemically, or
by the period fermentation process). Once the indigo blue is reduced to
indigo white, the indigo white can be dissolved in a mild alkali. The
way you dye something is to carefully (so as not to introduce oxygen) immerse
the thing you want to dye into the vat so that the dissolved indigo white
can get on it. When you pull it out and it comes into contact with the
oxygen in the air, PRESTO CHANGO, the indigo white is oxydized back to
insoluble indigo blue and it is very difficult to get off. Woad works
the same way. It's alot of trouble when done the period way, but it gave
such a nice, fast blue (and it's about the only good blue) that it was
worth it.
Something that is painted on the skin would have to be just that, a paint
or stain, where the blue indigo/woad pigment is mixed with some sort of binder
and painted on, just like any other solid pigment. (if you were truly dyeing,
the dye would be greenish or yellowish until it got on you) So theoretically,
you should be able to get any colour of blue you want, just by adding other
pigments to the binder with your woad. A painter familiar with mixing
pigments might have a better guess, but I suspect that adding a bit of
chalk should give you a pale blue. Hmmmm.....since the indigo/woad
pigment is insoluble, it seems to me that it is highly unlikely that
it would have any psycho-active or anesthetic properties. How would your
body assimilate an insoluble substance?
Cheers, Balderik/Rick (who's currently reaching new heights of ollifactory
offensiveness by combining parchment making with indigo dyeing)
From: bbrisbane at aol.com (BBrisbane)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Need Woad Recpe: anyone????
Date: 18 Dec 1995 20:46:26 -0500
MiLord, I can probably can help you, but I need to know what you are
going to do with the woad???
First you get some woad plants and ferment them, the color develops in an
alkaline environment which turns blue when exposed to the air. Thats the
basics, I suggest you pick up a natural dye book that covers both Indigo &
woad dyes. Turning woad into a pigment for paints is a step or two
further. If you are looking to buy ready made Woad and need recipes for
it's use, see book above.
A good book is :
'The Art and craft of Natural Dyeing
-Traditional Recipes for Modern Use'
by J.N. Liles
the University of Tennessee Press
copyright 1990
isbn 0-87049-670-0 (pbk)
Good Luck, --- Lady Phillipia cupbreaker
Principality of AEthelmearc MOAS
From: mchance at crl.com (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: woad
Date: 19 Jan 1996 08:09:40 -0800
Cadwaladr Mac Fionbharr asks:
>where can i get woad plants, and a recipe for woad dye?
If you're looking for woad plants to put in your garden, check your
local environmental laws first. In many places in North America, woad
is classed as a "pernicious weed" and is illegal to plant
intentionally, often with steep fines for those that do.
Mikjal Annarbjorn
--
Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields
Work: mc307a at sw1stc.sbc.com of St. Vidicon"
Play: mchance at crl.com
From: mgallehe at nova.umuc.edu (MJG)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: woad
Date: 22 Jan 1996 16:11:43 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland University College
please see earlier posts on the potential dangers of woad before
proceeding.....however it grows wild in many places in NA particularly
anyplace with a history of Scottish immigration...it was prized as a
dye and brought with them when they came.... dyers woad is found wild all
over VA-Wva and S.C. for this reason...
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 22:19:38 -0700
From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Natural Dyes-- Woad (was Kamala and Fustic)
SNSpies at aol.com wrote:
> Woad and weld are both very easy to grow. Seeds are available from Richter's
> in Canada (email: orderdesk at richters.com web site: www.richters.com
> phone: 1-905-640-6677).
>
> Dyeing with them are covered well in Rita Buchanan's A Weaver's Garden
> (Interweave Press, 1987) and Jill Goodwin's A Dyer's Manual (Pelham Books,
> 1982). If you can't find these, I would be happy to send you the pertinent
> pages.
>
> Cheers. Nancy (Ingvild)
However, there's a caveat attached to the growing of woad...
Back in the last century, woad was introduced into the northern Utah
ecosystem by settlers who brought it west to use as a dyestuff. It has
since turned into a pest that is to this day busily insinuating iself
into the local flora. The plant has a looong taproot and will regenerate
itself easily from a whacked-off base just like that common lawn pest,
the dandelion. There's a prohibition in Utah and, IIRC, other western
states on distribution of woad seeds and woad cultivation-- and I've
even heard tell of small bounties for bringin' in woad dead or alive. If
you're an Artemisian, feel free to eradicate any and all local wild woad
you can find to stock that dyebath! IIRC, it takes about a pound of woad
leaves to set up a blue dyebath for four ounces of wool in summer, when