spice-storage-msg – 10/29/11

Period and modern spice storage.

NOTE: See also the files: spices-msg, spice-mixes-msg, saffron-art, herbs-msg, Basic-Herbs-art, gums-resins-msg, merch-spices-msg, p-herbals-msg, galangale-msg, Cinnamon-Vari-art, p-spice-trade-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:55:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - A herb/spices question. . .

<< Having just moved some of the same bottles of herbs, spices and extracts
 for the third time in two years I began to wonder if any of this stuff was
 still good.  What is the average shelf life for seasonings? >>

For herbs, the average shelf-life is about 6 mths to a year before the flavor
deteriorates substancially. Spices depend on how they've been stored and
whether they are whole spices or ground spices. If they are bug and mold
free, taste or smell. If they appear to still be strong then use them. For
sauces and extracts, I would advise the same. I have had a quart bottle of
Fish Sauce from Thailand on my shelf for 11 years. It's still good.
Worchestershire also has an indefinate shelf life. While hot sauce tends to
go rancid after a year or so.

 << How can you tell when its time to get rid of them?  >>

When they get bugs in them, mold, turn colors and/or smell taste wrong. :-)

Lord Ras


Date: 9 Sep 1997 15:03:49 -0700
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog  at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw- SC - A herb/spices question. . .

Spices last longer than herbs, especially if un-ground.  Both will last longer
if kept sealed air-tight and in a dark place. (Which makes all those pretty
spice racks with glass jars kinda a shame).  How long they last also depends
on how long they were in the store before you got them (random).  The only way
to know is to test them.  Taste them, smell them- when you find yourself
having to use "too much" of them in your regular cooking, it is time to get
new.  I have had dried parsley go terribly bland in a month, and tarragon last
for years.
- -brid
(wishing she didn't rent so she could invest in planting a serious kitchen
garden and always have relatively fresh herbs)


Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:22:50 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy  at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - transporting ingredients

>Okay, so we have the spice box set up and the sacks for larger quantities of
>things like wheat and rice.  How did people in period store and/or transport
>powders like amydoun, powdour douce, and so on?  Do we have any pictures or
>documentation, or do we fall back on rustic jars with corks in because they
>look more period than glass screwtop jars?
>
>Cairistiona

The most usual solution would have been in pottery jars. These are usually
known as apothecary jars -- most commonly they are in a majolica-type of
ware, with blue or green decoration. The usual shape is fairly tall,
narrower at top and bottom than in the middle, which has a concave curvature
(sorry if the description isn't the clearest). And these jars would be
closed not with corks (the use of cork for stoppers is very late, if I
recall correctly), but with a piece of parchment tied down with a cord over
the projecting lip of the top of the jar. I have also met mention in account
books of pounded spices and mixtures being delivered from the spice merchant
in bags (I can't recall off the top of my head whether cloth or leather), so
I suspect that this would also answer your needs. Would you like me to dig
up the exact references?

Francesco Sirene
David Dendy / ddendy  at silk.net
partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene  at silk.net
Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/


Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:26:18 -0700
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss  at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - transporting ingredients

hey all from Anne-Marie
Cairistiona asks:
>>Okay, so we have the spice box set up and the sacks for larger quantities of
>>things like wheat and rice.  How did people in period store and/or transport
>>powders like amydoun, powdour douce, and so on?  Do we have any pictures or
>>documentation, or do we fall back on rustic jars with corks in because they
>>look more period than glass screwtop jars?

le menagier or Chiquart, one of those guys, mentions that you are to store
your spices in leather bags. He also mentions that you are to buy them
whole and powder them yourself (for freshness sake? I think?).

Francesco is right about the apothocary jars as well...that's how the spice
shop is shown to store them in the illos, like the Tacitium sanitas, but we
dont see folks carting them away in those beautiful majolica jars. and dont
forget your sugar came from the druggist as well!

Flour and grain seem to be transported in bags of some sort of white
material (course linen? it was the cheapest fiber for most of Europe),
according to the manuscript illos.

- --AM


From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste  at mindspring.com>
To: <sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Thanks Olwen::::5000 bottles of spice on the wall, 5000 bottles of spice.
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:56:22 -0400

> On a friends advice, I began saving those Starbuck chilled coffee bottles.
> The mouth is large and the lid fits tightly and they hold a good quantity,
> plus I have the added bonus of enjoying the coffee!
> Olwen

I use Polaner's All Fruit jars.  They are a great size, and although they
are clear instead of dark glass, the lids have a seal in them, and the
amounts I buy to fill them don't last longer than a year or two anyway, so
they stay as fresh as their life span, usually.  It forces me not to buy too
much when purchasing in bulk, which is a good thing, too.  I also have a
great offer from Ball Jars for green glass storage jars in various shapes
for pretty reasonable prices that I'm considering buying a bunch of. Sorry,
no web site, but a phone number: 1-800-392-2575.
Christianna
always a fan of recycling


Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:51:09 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1  at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thanks Olwen::::5000 bottles of spice on the wall,
 5000 bottles of spice.
To: sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org

Another suggestion:  If you can find them, Mickey beer bottles make
wonderful spice jars...they're even dark colored glass, which keeps your
spices better.  You'll need to find a supply of corks for them.  The good
news is that it's not hard to find folks who are willing to help you build
up your supply of bottles!!

Kiri
----- Original Message -----
>I've heard dark glass bottles are better than the clear ones, but
>the clear ones are the only ones I can find in small sizes with
>large mouths consistantly.


Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:33:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice Storage
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I don't think it was used for storage, but there is a picture of a 13th 
century Jewish spice box (or b'samim box) from Spain at 
http://www.fathom.com/feature/190130/ .  The box is on display at the 
Victoria and Albert Museum.

That might be a place to start your research.

Mordonna

lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
>>>
I currently keep most of my spices generally in a dark place in screw
top glass jars that i've bought - and I have labels on the bottles in
Arabic.

There's a Collegium coming up soon and they asked folks to make
displays. So i'm thinking of putting together a bunch of my stuff. I
want to print out my articles on the two 13th century spice boxes and
put spices on display in containers labeled in Arabic.

Some European stuff suggests that at least in some times and places
spices were kept in leather pouches (14th c. France, IIRC)

But i haven't found any clear information on in what sorts of
containers the Arabs and related cultures kept their spices.

Has anyone come across any related information?
-- 
Urtatim, formerly Anahita
<<<

Pat Griffin
Lady Anne du Bosc
known as Mordonna the Cook
Shire of Thorngill, Meridies
Mundanely, Millbrook, AL


Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:19:29 -0500
From: "ysabeau" <ysabeau at mail.ev1.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice Storage
To: Cooks within the SCA  <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

One of my first stops in Berlin was to a working medieval village
(yes, in the heart of Berlin!). I was excited to see the spice
merchant because I had just moved and needed to stock my kitchen.
I promptly bought a bunch of spices. I don't know the research
they put into it but they did their best to make it as authentic
as possible...they even worked the field with reproductions of
period tools.

The spice merchant had his spices in large cloth bags that sat
inside large jars. They were arranged in triple rows around the
stand with cards on some kind of stick stuck into the space
between the bag and the jar with the name and price. When you
ordered, he would take a paper funnel and scoop your spices into
the funnel and twist the top closed. I would assume that the
funnel had to be glued but I have a fuzzy image of watching him
curl the paper into the funnel, fill it and twist it. He did it
very quickly. I might have to play with some paper to figure it
out. I ended up with a bag full of little funnels filled with
spices.

If you can read German (the translator doesn't do a very good
job), the website is http://www.dueppel.de/

The longer side of this story is that I had only been in Berlin
for three days. I was standing on the U-bahn platform when I saw
this woman in medieval clothing jump off the train and head for
the stairs. Completely forgetting where I was, I called to her in
English and asked "Excuse me, are in the SCA?" Without missing a
beat, she turned and said "No, I'm one of the tunnel people from
Beauty and the Beast!" It turns out that she was SCA and they were
on their way to a field trip to the village. I changed my plans
and headed off to the village for a fun and educational day.

Ysabeau


Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 18:52:30 +0200
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice Storage
To: ysabeau at mail.ev1.net, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Am Donnerstag, 28. April 2005 16:19 schrieb ysabeau:
> The spice merchant had his spices in large cloth bags that sat
> inside large jars. They were arranged in triple rows around the
> stand with cards on some kind of stick stuck into the space
> between the bag and the jar with the name and price. When you
> ordered, he would take a paper funnel and scoop your spices into
> the funnel and twist the top closed. I would assume that the
> funnel had to be glued but I have a fuzzy image of watching him
> curl the paper into the funnel, fill it and twist it. He did it
> very quickly. I might have to play with some paper to figure it
> out. I ended up with a bag full of little funnels filled with
> spices.

The trick with the paper funnel is impressive, and old-school retailers  
can do it without glue. However, I doubt it is period.

The cloth bags, on the other hand, are. This is most likely taken directly
from an illustration in the Buch der Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung (IIRC)
that shows a spice merchant with his wares in bags, arrayed on the table in
front of him. I made cloth bags for spices and found that they work fairly
well for unground stuff, but I still prefer (barely defensible) glass jars in
a wooden box for ease of transport. One day, when I get rich, I'll buy
lathe-turned wooden jars :)

Giano


Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:23:45 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice Storage
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Johnna suggested i write to Charles Perry! So i did. And got an
answer back pretty quickly! Below is my message and his response.

Urtatim, formerly Anahita
(that's err-tah-TEEM)

----- My Message -----

Dear Mr. Perry:

I'm an avid cook, especially of Southeast Asian, Near and Middle
Eastern, and historical food - and, when I lived in Los Angeles, I
often cooked Mexican from Diane Kennedy's and Rick Bayless's books.

I use your translation of the so-called Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook
with great frequency and I purchased "Medieval Arabic Cookery"
shortly after it was published. I have been enjoying them immensely,
and cook from them with some regularity, including for dinner
parties. In fact, even though I am not Christian, I cooked and ate a
number of the Lenten recipes from the Book of the Description of
Familiar Foods this year before Easter.

One thing I've been thinking about is spice storage in the "average"
kitchen within Medieval Arabic culture. My recollection from reading
some 15th century European cookbooks is that spices were often kept
in leather bags at that time. But I do not recall reading what the
average Medieval Arab cook stored spices in, if there was a typical
storage container.

I wonder if you might have any information on the subject or
suggestions for books that i might be able to find. Alas, I do not
read Arabic, although I can make out some words. I can read French,
and with a dictionary can decipher a fair bit of German, Italian, and
Spanish.

I no longer live in Los Angeles, but I often read your articles on
the internet. I find them most informative and enjoyable. I thank you
so much for sharing your knowledge, ideas, and experiments.

Sincerely,

----- His Response -----

	Thanks for the kind words. I've labored long and hard in this
field, it's gratifying to hear that somebody appreciates it.

	I think the leather bags everybody mentions were used in
transporting spices overland (woven panniers were also known) but not
used for kitchen storage. There might be some information on this
subject in "Social Life in Baghdad Under the Abbasids" (not sure of
the exact title) by M.M. Ahsan which was published in the 1980s by
the Librairie du Liban; long out of print but it's probably in the
Cal library system somewhere. (Ahsan is learned, but  I'd take what
he says about the nature of dishes with a grain of salt, he's
obviously one of those scholars who never go into the kitchen.)

	The medieval cookbooks don't say anything about where spices
are kept. The most likely place would have been small pottery
vessels, though some things might have been kept in glass jars (the
word "jar" actually comes from Arabic); I imagine saffron might be
one, because you wouldn't have huge quantities of it in the first
place. There are references to putting a "lid" or "cover" (ghata) on
pots and jugs (not in a spice context) but I don't know how
tight-fitting it would have been. Often there are instructions to
cover the mouth of a vessel with cloth, esparto or leather. You could
also store things in a wooden box (huqqa).

	In Europe, where spices were rare and precious, a great house
would lay in a store of spices which would be watched over and ground
to order by a servant known as a spicer. In the Middle East, where
spices were cheaper and more abundant, people shopped for spices more
frequently. To me, this implies that that they did not keep large
quantities of spices at home. They might have kept spices open in
small bowls. The spice used most abundantly was coriander, so I would
not be surprised if there were jars for coriander (and pepper), but I
don't think people kept any spices very long at home.

	In Middle Eastern spice shops, spices are usually kept in
wooden bins until they're brought out for display. I expect that was
the medieval practice also. Bins, pots, boxes, but probably not
leather bags, which would probably have been emptied in the shop and
gone right back on the road.


Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:00:58 -0500
From: Christina L Biles <bilescl at okstate.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Paper twists of spice (Was spice storage)
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> The trick with the paper funnel is impressive, and old-school retailers
> can do it without glue. However, I doubt it is period.

>> I agree.  Paper wasn't all that cheap during the Middle Ages/Renaissance.

Paper twists of spice show up in early seventeenth century Dutch art.  I
haven't got a pre-1600 image yet, but I'm still looking.
This one dates to 1627:
http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/aria/aria_assets/SK-A-4646?lang=en

I have another from 1615 from a still life by Clara Peeters (the one with
the flat wedding tart with rosemary & gold charms) that I can't find
online at the moment.

-Magdalena da Cadamosto


Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:17:31 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paper twists of spice (Was spice storage)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The paper wouldn't necessarily have come from a book. At least
in England during this period there were any number of broadsides
(definition: Broadsides--printing on one side of a single sheet of paper)
  being printed and distributed. These could be anything from
proclamations to legal notices to scandalous songs and ballads.
They advertised plays, boats leaving for the New World, sermons, etc.
They could very well have been used by a merchant to wrap up a small
purchase for a housewife or servant. The other possibility that comes to mind
is that it could be discarded paper from a mistake or trial run at a printer.
(How many sheets do I waste at times today trying to get the xerox to copy
what I want in the format, darkness, size, etc. that I want?) What was done
with discarded paper? One images that some was recycled into more paper
possibly, but is it outside the realm of possibility that the thrifty
Dutch would not have used in some other fashion?

Johnnae


Huette von Ahrens wrote:

> Printing or decoration?  Someone could have painted the shell or  
> carved it.  Perhaps it is
> a piece of stiff cloth or decorated leather?  I know that I am  
> grasping at straws, but I am
> having a hard time with the concept that someone desecrated a book to  
> wrap spices in paper.
> ::Shudder::
> When this painting was done in 1612 or so, printing was becoming more  
> common, but would someone
> really have torn out a page of a book to wrap spices in it?  I can see  
> the Victorians doing that.
> I have actually held in my hands a Victorian era law book that was  
> falling apart.  Someone had cut
> up a vellum illuminated manuscript and pasted a strip of it onto the  
> spine to cover up the
> stitching.  I wanted to cry.  But would a 17th Century spice merchant  
> have done that?
>
> Huette [once an librarian, always a bibliophile]


Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:35:06 -0400
From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: FW: FW: [Sca-cooks] Paper twists of spice (Was spice storage)
To: "SCA Cooks" <Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

More info from the off-list Temair. (She's just recently developed a
late-period persona - Dona Teresa - living at 5 minutes to midnight, 1599 so
she's perpetually 29 :)  Temair is 6th Cent. Irish.

Christianna


Thanks for the pic.  Did you look at it?  The paper twist looks like a
page from a book.  And I really, really like the nautilus shell goblet
(behind and to the left of the spice plate).

I would disagree about paper twists being 'period'.  As usual, it
depends on when and where.  For Temair no, for Dona Teresa, probably
yes.  Books were printed for 150 years by that time, there must have
been some that no one wanted.  A quick google search found:

"Until the sixteenth century, buying and trading were done mainly in
bulk.  There was little need for wrapping or packaging.  Customers
provided their own containers, such as baskets, jugs, or bowls.  But as
towns and cities grew, goods could be purchased in smaller quantities
as they were needed, and it was convenient to do shopping more
frequently.  Therefore, items such as grain, beans, buttons, and
needles required some kind of wrapping or packaging to contain these
smaller quantities.

Bookstores often took manuscripts that failed to sell as reading
materials and sold them to merchants as scraps for wrapping paper.  The
paper was twisted into a cone and folded up at the bottom.  This became
the first paper bag.  Soon paper makers also discovered that they could
use the course settlings from the bottom of their vats to make a
low-quality wrapping paper."

http://silosandsmokestacks.org/resources/FieldTripGuide/shopping_bag_history
_project.htm
  (with the usual caveat for internet info)

Tara


Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:49:43 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cleaning Cupboards
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Over the weekend we got into a cleaning frenzy. My spice cupboard  
> was hit hard. Ground spices/herbs that I felt or knew were at least  
> a year old went out. There are some whole spices that are at least  
> that old that I'm keeping.
>
> Please, is there a better rule of thumb to go by?

> Molli Rose

I suggest the rule of nose, instead.  Some spices lose their potency  
more quickly than others.  Cinnamon lasts much longer than  
coriander.  It also depends on how the spices are stored.  You want  
to keep them away from light, heat, and moisture.

Take a whiff, or sprinkle a small amount on a piece of bread, plain  
chicken, or other appropriate food.  If it's just a little weaker,  
you can simply increase the amount you use.  If it's tasteless,  
stale, or rancid, pitch it.

Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:20:44 -0500
From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Cleaning Cupboards
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>>>
Over the weekend we got into a cleaning frenzy. My spice cupboard was hit
hard. Ground spices/herbs that I felt or knew were at least a year old went
out. There are some whole spices that are at least that old that I'm
keeping.

Please, is there a better rule of thumb to go by?

Molli Rose
<<<

6 months or so for dried herbs (green leafies)
6 months to 1 year or so for ground spices
2 years + for whole spices, longer for heavier/thicker things like
peppercorns, chunks of root, etc.

Just rules of thumb, mind you.  Smell and looks and taste are the best way
to tell.  Many things are fine if you use a bit more, some things (like
dried parsley) just end up tasting like dirt, and more just tastes like more
dirt.  Mileage will definitely vary.

Christianna
home to older seasonings than all of the above!


Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:09:40 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cleaning Cupboards
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> 6 months to 1 year or so for ground spices

I'd put it at less than that for these:
6 months or less for ground ginger
1 month for ground cardamom
2 months for ground coriander
3-6 months for ground caraway
7 days for ground nutmeg
Almost indefinitely for ground cloves

> 2 years + for whole spices, longer for heavier/thicker things like
> peppercorns, chunks of root, etc.
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 


Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 00:23:54 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How long do whole spices last??
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

>  Hello from long-lost Phillipa Seton.

Welcome back!

>  Can someone tell me how long whole spices last? I have some that  
> are at least 5 years old.

A lot will depend on several issues.

For one, on the form of the spices.

Whole spices keep better than ground. Ground cinnamon that has not
been well stored may well taste like faintly cinnamon flavored dust.

And second, on how they have been stored.

If they have been stored (1.) in a very tightly sealed container, one
that does not admit air, like a well sealed glass jar, AND (2.) in a
dark place, AND (3.) in a cool place (not the fridge, just somewhere
that doesn't get hot), the spices may still have some flavor.

The best cubebs i ever had were those i bought in the mid-1970s and
didn't use until the early 21st century. I didn't really know what to
do with them and kept them over, lo, these many decades, in a very
tightly sealed glass jar in dark and relatively cool places.

I joined the SCA in 1999 and cooked my first feast in 2000. Those
ancient cubebs turned out to be larger and to have superior flavor
than any of the freshly purchased cubebs i have since bought.

So it rather depends...
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:49:04 -0400
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How long do whole spices last??
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
On Aug 6, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Heleen Greenwald wrote:
> Can someone tell me how long whole spices last? I have some that are at
> least 5 years old.
> Phillipa

That will vary according to how they were stored, how old they were
when you got them, and a number of other factors.

Probably the simplest thing would be to grind a bit and see how it
tastes and smells.

Welcome back, BTW! Don't be a stranger!

Adamantius > > > > > > >

I pulled some whle cubeb out last week that had been sealed in a half pint
jelly jar in a carboard box on a shelf for at least 3 years.  I ground some
in a mortar, and the volitiles were still quite bright and pungent.  It
probably lost some punch over the years, but I would say that with proper
handling, 5 years is not out of the question.  Freezing some spices can make
them last still longer . . . . my long pepper is going on 6 years, or longer
in the freeze, vaccuum sealed.  Just like 'new'.

niccolo difrancesco


Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:08:03 -0400
From: "Stephanie Ross" <hlaislinn at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How long do whole spices last??
To: "SCA-Cooks" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Niccolo wrote:
<<< It probably lost some punch over the years, but I would say that with proper
handling, 5 years is not out of the question. Freezing some spices can make
them last still longer . . . . my long pepper is going on 6 years, or longer
in the freeze, vaccuum sealed. Just like 'new'. >>>

I think it would depend on what part of the plant the spices came from.
Leaves are very delicate and gradually lose potency after about a year.
Ground spices last about as long. Berries like whole cloves, juniper and
pepper keep longer. I think the long pepper if whole would keep about
indefinitely. A big wake-up call on what herbs actually smell like freshly
dried came to me when I worked at the health-food store several years ago.
They carried Frontier herbs in bulk. The little jars of cardamom you buy
for $12 or so at the grocery are ancient beyond belief. Freshly ground
cardamom will clear your sinuses due to its strong camphor/menthol smell.
Ground it doesn't keep long before it loses that pungency. 

~Aislinn~


Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 08:39:50 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How long do whole spices last??
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Can someone tell me how long whole spices last? I have some that are at
> least 5 years old.
> Phillipa

I have some whole nutmegs that I bought in '80 or so, kept in a small
glass bottle with a tight stopper. When I use it, I grate off a bit
to a fresh surface, then grate what I need.  It's lost some strength,
but still better than ground nutmeg from the store, even when that is
"new".

Whole seeds like fennel or coriander, I usually discard any older
than 3 years old.   They still have some flavor but not enough to
suit me.  I bought the big bottle of black pepper from Sams and it
was gone before I felt the need to discard it, maybe 3 years.

Ranvaig


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 01:32:37 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Spice Containers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I would be very hesitant about using cork covered jars for spices and
the like. Corks, by their nature, allow an exchange of the air within
and without the bottle, thus allowing the essential oils, the
flavoring agents, of most spices to escape. Corks work very well for
wine bottles, where you want a certain amount of exchange, albeit a
very limited amount, so the wines can age, but wine bottles are also
kept on their sides so that they remain wet, thus swelling the corks
and keeping the exchange very limited. A dry cork, however, will allow
considerably more air exchange, and aging is NOT very good for spices,
particularly powdered ones.

On 10/5/06, Lynn Hunter <rohanna1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have little, eensy-weensy pottery jars that seal with corks for mine for
> spices not used regularly, or for stuff like ginger and cinnamon, I have a
> set of green glass jars that also seal with corks.  I tend to buy in the
> smallest amounts I can, since the strength to do any cooking can be iffy.
>
> Ro
-- 
Saint Phlip


Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:26:17 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Spice Containers
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Hmmmm. Good point.  The oregano I had in a corked bottle like that dried out
too darn fast.  Maybe we should make angled-in cylindrical tops to
gravity-fit, maybe with a bit of bee's wax around the edge to hold it in
place?  Just a thought.

Sel.


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 03:04:40 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Spice Containers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

An inverted truncated cone should work well as a stopper, if you can
make sure the angles of both the "cork" and the neck are the same, or
very close. Perhaps with the stopper covered with a carefully fitted
and glued piece of this, soft leather, that after fitting and gluing
is covered with softened beeswax? It would be worth an experiment, at
least. One concern I would have with beeswax applied any other way
would be the ground spices adhering to the stopper and/or the neck,
and thus opening up gaps.

Another possibility, that would be a bit fiddly might be a top shaped
rather like a shot glass, with a swelling at the bottom to help seal
the hole. Beeswax could them be applied outside the neck of the bottle
to avoid that difficulty.

Of course, when in doubt, drop back and punt ;-) How did they actually
deal with this in period? I'm thinking that spices were ground to each
usage, rather than stored as a powder for any length of time.

On 10/6/06, Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hmmmm. Good point.  The oregano I had in a corked bottle like that dried out
> too darn fast.  Maybe we should make angled-in cylindrical tops to
> gravity-fit, maybe with a bit of bee's wax around the edge to hold it in
> place?  Just a thought.
>
> Sel.


Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 14:50:08 -0700
From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite spice containers
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

I use the glass/plastic lid jars from Cost Plus.  They fit my spice rack and
looked better than the recycled commercial jars of the same size and shape,
and were soooo much better than the little metal tins of another brand.  The
jars had clear, preprinted labels on the front bottom edge.

I restocked my supply from Whole Foods and the display was incredible, but I
KNOW about light AND the rack was above the stove, so I now store them in
drawers (the jars are just the right height).  I put round, clear,
preprinted labels on the lids.  One drawer for spices and one drawer for
herbs.  I cut cardboard to make dividers to keep them from shifting around
too much when opening/shutting the drawer.  I love the new arrangement
except that I cannot SEE the beautiful colors.

I love Alton's magnetic metal containers, but I do NOT have sufficient
cabinet doors to store all the herbs and spices I keep on hand, nor could I
easily afford that many of them!

Katira al-Maghrebiyya


Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:16:42 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks]  Favorite spice containers
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

In response to Sharon's request for spice containers...what I use aren't
period, but work nicely.  With the assistance (VERY WILLING
assistance!!) of my husband, I have a collection of Mickey beer
bottles.  They are shaped like little barrels, with a short neck and
wide mouth...and they are dark green, which helps protect the
spices/herbs from sunlight.  For stoppers, I purchase corks from either
a hardware store or from a source online.  Mostly they live in a base
cabinet with a rollout shelf.  I've found that this combination seems to
work very well.

Kiri


Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:10:51 -0400
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite spice containers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
>>> I'm still not getting messages, but have been going through the
archives.

In response to Sharon's request for spice containers...what I use aren't
period, but work nicely.  With the assistance (VERY WILLING
assistance!!) of my husband, I have a collection of Mickey beer
bottles.  They are shaped like little barrels, with a short neck and
wide mouth...and they are dark green, which helps protect the
spices/herbs from sunlight.  < < < < < < <

I don't know if the same wavelengths are a problem with our general spices,
but green bottles are almost zero protection against sunlight for hops in
beer.  Brown bottles will prevent "light struck" or "skunked" beer, which
happens when light interacts with compounds in hops.  Green and clear glass
are the same . . . no protection.  Just thought I'd throw that out in  terms
of green glass and potential light protection.  NOTE: The hops specific
compounds are not found in our culinary spices.

niccolo difrancesco


Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:57:08 -0800
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] spice storage
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Margaret wrote:
> I need a better storage solution for my spice cabinet. I have square glass
> jars, plastic Penzey's bags, bags from the Indian grocery store, small
> plastic jars (Penzey's and otherwise), large Penzey's glass jars, and a
> few random boxes, all overflowing the cabinet and gradually taking over
> that corner of the counter as well.
>
> The people who design spice racks have no comprehension of how  
> large one's seasoning collection can be.

Too true!

> What do other people do to keep their herbs & spices in order?

I got a couple inexpensive ugly plastic two-tiered lazy susans
(Rubbermaid?) many many many years ago.

One is for spices. The second is for herbs and other seasonings. When
i buy seasonings from a bulk source, i transfer it into a
standardized container.

On the Spice lazy susan, those in standardized containers are on the
bottom shelf in alphabetical order.  If i have a spice in two forms
(e.g., whole and ground), one container is pushed back into the
center behind the other. The top shelf is for spices in odd shaped
containers or those too large to fit on the bottom, also in
alphabetical order.

Then there's Herb and Other lazy susan. I just don't use as many
different herbs as i do spices. And besides, herbs are better fresh,
so these turn over more quickly. Again, standard containers on the
bottom, odd or oversize on the top. Again in alphabetical order. But
since there's lots of left over space, i also have on this lazy susan
things like 2 or three different kinds of Southeast Asian shrimp
paste (Thai, Singapore, and Malay), tamarind paste from India, dried
fruit seeds, bottles of flavorings and extracts, etc.

I keep the lazy susans side by side in a nice dark cabinet,
preferably not on the south/sunny side of the kitchen.

Because i buy spices for feasts, i have some larger bags of spices. I
keep each as tightly sealed as i can, and put it in a ziploc bag, and
if i have several smaller bags of the same spice, i put them together
in a larger ziploc bag. I tend to put the ziploc bag into a second
ziploc bag to keep the spices a bit fresher. I label the outer ziploc
bag and stash them behind the lazy susans.

For events, i don't yet have a perfect solution. Currently i use a
small wooden box made like a crate, and apparently intended to hold
CDs in their "jewel cases". I can fit three somewhat standardized
glass spice bottles side by side widthwise, and six bottles
lengthwise, for a total of 18. All bottles are labeled with white
stickers on which i've written the name of each spice, and where i
can find it an herb, in Arabic. The other herbs are labeled in
English. Again, any odd shaped containers get piled on top of the
flat lids.

I keep this inside my canvas pavilion, and if it's hot, i cover it
with something for insulation so it stays out of the light and
relatively cool.

I'd love to find small ceramic containers - with "Middle Eastern"
type patterns on them and the names in Arabic and with tops that seal
tightly enough - to take to events.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:41:35 -0800
From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] spice storage
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

I too had an odd collection of jars and cans which I mostly stored on racks
by the stove.  Yes, I know that is the worst place but there it was.

So, I bought a bunch of nice glass/plastic top spice jars at Cost Plus.
Filled some from the old containers but mostly with fresh herbs and spices
and labeled them on top with clear preprinted round stickers and on the
bottom front with clear preprinted rectangular stickers.  The display was
amazing.  All the wonderful colors!  BUT, I knew that they needed a better
place so...

I rearranged the few drawers I have in my small kitchen and devoted one to
herbs and one to spices.  The drawer depth was perfect for the jars and I
put cardboard strips between the rows so they wouldn't slide around too
much.  The top labels make it so easy to pick out what I want.  The drawer
is deeper than I need at the moment.  In the meantime,  I store a few odds
and ends at the back.  I am sad I cannot see the colorful display but I know
the herbs and spices will last longer when kept in the dark.

I had to make up some labels as I have the usual SCA collection of odd herbs
and spices as well as many interesting but uncommon blends.  I use the old
racks for a timer, salt and pepper and a few other odds and ends.

I also created a spreadsheet that I can sort to give me a shopping list to
replace herbs and spices after a reasonable time.

I am very happy with the new arrangement and do not mind giving up the
drawer space for these most important cooking ingredients.  I love Alton's
tins stuck inside the cabinet doors, but there aren't enough doors in my
kitchen to hold the variety I have.  I agree that any of the countertop or
fold out spice racks just aren't big enough.

Katira


Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 00:15:48 -0500
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] spice storage
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I have a row of wooden spice racks that fill the space between
counter and upper cupboards.  The bottles lay on their side and fit a
lot more in the space than most racks.  Anything I bought bulk, I put
a working supply in a jar and the rest goes on a top shelf.

Here is a similar rack, but I have them turned the other way,
standing on end, next to each other.
http://pictures.kyozou.com/pictures/_2/1943/1942823.jpg

Ranvaig


Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:23:26 EST
From: Stanza693 at wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice storage
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Years ago when my lord and I first got married, a very dear friend took upon
herself the daunting task of teaching me about cooking.  (If only she could
see me now!)  Anyway, as a wedding gift, she gave us a spice kit to take to
events.  It contained the few spices she considered critical, in labeled film
cannisters!  (Her husband was a photojournalist so she had plenty around the
house.)  She housed them in one of those "spacemaker" hard plastic boxes.

It was a great gift that we still use 10 years and 4 kingdoms later.

A sus ordenes,
Constanza Marina de Huelva
Barony of Dragonsspine, the Outlands


Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:59:08 -0500
From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jars/Bottles
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< There's a web site where you can order all sorts of bottles and jars, not
to mention small tins of various descriptions. You can find it at
http://www.specialtybottle.com/

Kiri >>>

The plain tin cannisters are also perfect for storing 
spices, herbs and tea in. They are pretty airtight and
not having the contents exposed to light preserves
the flavor.

They are certainly cheaper than you can get at
specialty food equipment shops.

Gunthar


Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:02:17 -0400
From: "Gaylin Walli" <gaylinwalli at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jars/Bottles
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I can also personally recommend SKS Bottle and glass (
http://www.sks-bottle.com/) as a great supplier. When I called them to find
out about a discount I could get for spice jars for the Midrealm Army War
Pay, they were exceedingly friendly and genuinely intrigued by what we were
doing.

Iasmin


Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 23:45:53 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Herb and Spice Jars

There are wooden tea chests with compartments. Like the Ironwood  
Gourmet Acacia Wood Rectangle Tea Chest at Amazon.

Johnna


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 00:34:17 -0500
From: "Mairi Ceilidh" <jjterlouw at earthlink.net>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Herb and Spice Jars

<<< I am looking for some herb and spice jars, containers, something, for my
camp kitchen. Something that is not horrendously modern that I can keep next to the fire. The lids should stay on and they need to be transportable.

What do other people use and where can I get them?

Eduardo >>>

Try The Jar Store online.  [http://www.jarstore.com ].  Lots of styles to choose from,
and I think they sell small quantities.

Mairi Ceilidh


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 02:39:16 -0500
From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Herb and Spice Jars

Look here:
http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?products_id=1066

and
http://jas-townsend.com/index.php?cPath=53

and here
http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?cPath=11&products_id=348

to see if you can find anything that is useful.

Daniel


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 02:46:39 -0500
From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Herb and Spice Jars

Look here as well:
http://www.smoke-fire.com/glassware-1.asp

Daniel


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 00:53:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Herb and Spice Jars

Hi Eduardo!

I have sent you a private message with an attachment as my husband, Master Hroar svithandi of Two Hearts Entwined Pottery, makes herb and spice jars.  

http://www.twoheartsentwinedpottery.com/

Huette

--- On Wed, 12/8/10, David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com> wrote:
<<< I am looking for some herb and spice jars, containers,
something, for my camp kitchen. Something that is not horrendously modern that I can keep next to the fire.  The lids should stay on and they need to be transportable.

What do other people use and where can I get them? 

Eduardo >>>


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 08:06:26 -0500
From: brooke white <traumspindel at googlemail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 56, Issue 15

as far as I know there is evidence of spiceboxes in period which seem to be
varnished (don't ask me about the varnish itself) wood boxes like these
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31C3s%2BNLTPL.jpg

I don't know the proper english name, but you can get them at Michels, for
example. even better but rather pricey are birchbark boxes. Thos lovely
things are available in all kinds of optics (ebay has a few sellers but
there are also a few in Germany) you can get those in all sizes. The
birchbark, will keep pests out and even mildew spores and such. In birchbark
containers my (baked with no preservatives) bread keeps for a little over a
week.
http://www.monstermarketplace.com/alaskan-gifts-and-furs/russian-birch-bark-box-small-round-assortment
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31C3s%2BNLTPL.jpg

Elisande


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 08:54:40 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Herb and Spice Jars

I haven't used them, but like the look of these amber jars.  They 
don't seem too modern, but the covers should stay on.  The site has 
other spice jars too.

http://www.sunburstbottle.com/glass-jars/amber

These red glass jars are bigger, but quite lovely.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003VW5TK0/ref=asc_df_B003VW5TK01338419?smid=A2U8QT718ZM8N5&tag=nextagusmp0355885-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B003VW5TK0

Or this wooden Indian spice box

http://www.parrotfish.co.uk/product.cfm/prod_name/Multicultural%20Resources%20Indian%20Spice%20Box/product_id/137/category_id/11

Ranvaig


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 12:01:24 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Herb and Spice Jars

https://www.specialtybottle.com

These guys are reasonably priced and great to work with.  The killer is the
shipping, but they have just about every size and shape jar/bottle you could
possibly want.  I've done business with them on numerous occasions.

The other thing I do is to save spice jars when I empty them.  I buy a lot
of spices from Penzey's, as well as Auntie Arwen's at Pennsic (she does have
a web site as well and will ship).  So when those are empty, I simply soak
the labels off and reuse them.  I doubt anyone would consider them
particularly modern...cylindrical glass jars.

Kiri


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:16:41 -0800
From: Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Spice jars

Depends on how much you use, and for how long you're cooking, of course.

For a weekend long camp event, I tend to use a selection of watchmaker tins,
that have clear tops, and fit into a flat, hinged lidded tray.  These came
from leevalley.com (search on watchmaker tins), and were really quite cheap
(3 of these trays, each holding 15 tins were something around $10, 10 years
ago.  The size I have holds, oh, maybe a quarter cup each, and that's plenty
of a given spice for a given weekend.  And having 45 containers, each neatly
labeled and sorted alphabetically is a blessing when you're cooking in
limited light and don't want to mistake your cubebs with your juniper
berries.  The size is also great because I DO have to refill things fairly
often, and don't end up with stuff a few seasons old.

Ah, here's a link:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=44948&cat=1,43326,44948

They have a number of different sizes, and for the period aspect, I'd note
they fit nicely into a little wooden box used for the purpose (in our camp,
this setup is known as "the Spice Weasel", borrowed from Futurama...)

Gwyn


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:38:21 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Herb and Spice Jars

I looked, but to be honest, unless you want colored glass jars, the prices
at Specialty Bottle are much better...and they have, I believe a wider
selection.

Kiri

Mairi Ceilidh wrote:
<<< Try The Jar Store online.  http://www.jarstore.com.  Lots of styles to choose from, and I think they sell small quantities. >>>


Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 17:34:46 GMT
From: "morgana.abbey at juno.com" <morgana.abbey at juno.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice jars - recommendations

Just wax the corks.  Canning parafin will do.

Morgana

<<< Okay, this brings up a question:  To avoid scent contamination and
denaturing, what kind of container do you recommend for spices?  Glass with
a cork?  Glass with a screw-top?  Plastic with a rubber cork? >>>


Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 02:44:34 -0600
From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice jars - recommendations

<<< Okay, this brings up a question:  To avoid scent contamination and
denaturing, what kind of container do you recommend for spices?  Glass with
a cork?  Glass with a screw-top?  Plastic with a rubber cork? >>>

Probably not the plastic because it is more permeable, letting vapors in and aromatic oils out. It would also be more difficult to get smells from previously used items out of it.

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
  Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:03:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Annofnite at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] period spice containers/storage

I am looking for any information on how spices were stored.  I have  found 
a reference to (and a picture of) a spice box that seems to be a wooden  box 
that locks, that has compartments inside.   I have also found  reference to 
a "spice plate" that is either silver or gold and usually has  compartments 
to load spices in and pass around at a feast or dinner of  upper-class 
guests in a noble's home (for example) for adding spices on top of  the food 
that is served.  

What I cannot find is if the spices were inside little pottery containers  
(stopped with what? cork? wood stoppers? waxed cloth?) or directly placed 
into  the compartments in the wood spice box? or if they were stored in linen 
bags?  leather bags? other?

If anyone has some information on this, I would be very grateful.  I am 
waiting on a few books from the library that I reserved, but I'm not sure if  
they will have what I'm looking for.... or if what I'm looking for even  
exists.  :)

Aine of Wyewood


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:59:49 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period spice containers/storage

If you go to the website for the Victoria and Albert Museum you can search the collection and discover hundreds of spice cupboards, containers, boxes, holders, etc.
I think you'll discover that storage might depend upon the wealth of  
the household.

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/

Also--Take a look at the photos that have been posted from the Tudor  
Cooks at Hampton Court Palace.

Have you taken a look at the containers Master Hroar makes?
http://www.griffindyeworks.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=50_53&products_id=444

I am sure that he or Mistress Huette can provide documentation.

Johnnae


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:38:28 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period spice containers/storage

"And for the profit of the lord who gives the feast, and in order to 
satisfy the need more promptly and quickly, one should grind to 
powder the aforesaid spices which are necessary for the said feast, 
and put each separately into large and good leather bags."

Du Fait de Cuisine

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Du_Fait_de_Cuisine/du_fait_de_c_contents.html
-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:15:57 -0400
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period spice containers/storage

Aine wrote:
<<< I am looking for any information on how spices were stored.  I have 
found a reference to (and a picture of) a spice box that seems to be a 
wooden box that locks, that has compartments inside.  I have also 
found reference to a "spice plate" that is either silver or gold and 
usually has compartments to load spices in and pass around at a feast 
or dinner of upper-class guests in a noble's home (for example) for 
adding spices on top of the food that is served. >>>

The "spice plate" was used for the candied spices and similar items that 
were served to end the meal.  They weren't used for adding spices on top 
of the food that was served. Spices were added in the kitchens.  AFAIK, 
other than salt, spices weren't provided for guests to use as seasonings 
for their food.

Spices that might have been provided for the "banquet course" included 
pepper, anise, cinnamon, ginger, coriander, nutmeg, cumin, and cubebs, 
along with candied/sugared nuts like filberts, pine nuts and almonds.

Alys K.


Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:52:21 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period spice containers/storage

Victoria and Albert Museum   http://collections.vam.ac.uk/
uses descriptions like these the spice ones.
Spice-stand Place of origin:C?rdoba (possibly, made) Date: about 1540  
(made)

Materials and Techniques: Silver-gilt, raised, chased, embossed, cast  
and matted
This triangular vessel from Spain, similar in form to small salt  
cellars, may have been used as a spice dish. The decoration is  
inspired by motifs found on classical antiques and architecture, such  
as the scroll-shaped feet, the three supporting figures in the shape  
of grotesque females and the reliefs around the sides depicting  
cherubs fighting dragons. The dragons have been based on images in  
bestiaries, books about the behaviour of animals, which were used by  
Renaissance artists as sources for design.

The Met in NYC has one described as: Spice Plate
Italian, Venice (Murano) Date  ca. 1558
Medium  Glass, diamond-engraved
Dimensions Diam. 9 1/2 in. (24.1 cm.)

They also have elaborate spice boxes in metals with lids that lift.

Johnna

On Jun 24, 2011, at 4:07 PM, Elise Fleming wrote: snipped

<<< I'm not coming up with a good name for that type of plate at this  
moment.  Someone else might have a more functioning brain (Johnna?  
Doc? Bear? Adamantius?...?) as to what that serving utensil might  
have been called.

Alys K. >>>

<the end>
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