spice-storage-msg – 4/14/07
Period and modern spice storage.
NOTE: See also the files: spices-msg, spice-mixes-msg, saffron-art, herbs-msg, Basic-Herbs-art, gums-resins-msg, merch-spices-msg, p-herbals-msg, galangale-msg, Cinnamon-Vari-art, p-spice-trade-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:55:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - A herb/spices question. . .
<< Having just moved some of the same bottles of herbs, spices and extracts
for the third time in two years I began to wonder if any of this stuff was
still good. What is the average shelf life for seasonings? >>
For herbs, the average shelf-life is about 6 mths to a year before the flavor
deteriorates substancially. Spices depend on how they've been stored and
whether they are whole spices or ground spices. If they are bug and mold
free, taste or smell. If they appear to still be strong then use them. For
sauces and extracts, I would advise the same. I have had a quart bottle of
Fish Sauce from Thailand on my shelf for 11 years. It's still good.
Worchestershire also has an indefinate shelf life. While hot sauce tends to
go rancid after a year or so.
<< How can you tell when its time to get rid of them? >>
When they get bugs in them, mold, turn colors and/or smell taste wrong. :-)
Lord Ras
Date: 9 Sep 1997 15:03:49 -0700
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw- SC - A herb/spices question. . .
Spices last longer than herbs, especially if un-ground. Both will last longer
if kept sealed air-tight and in a dark place. (Which makes all those pretty
spice racks with glass jars kinda a shame). How long they last also depends
on how long they were in the store before you got them (random). The only way
to know is to test them. Taste them, smell them- when you find yourself
having to use "too much" of them in your regular cooking, it is time to get
new. I have had dried parsley go terribly bland in a month, and tarragon last
for years.
- -brid
(wishing she didn't rent so she could invest in planting a serious kitchen
garden and always have relatively fresh herbs)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:22:50 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - transporting ingredients
>Okay, so we have the spice box set up and the sacks for larger quantities of
>things like wheat and rice. How did people in period store and/or transport
>powders like amydoun, powdour douce, and so on? Do we have any pictures or
>documentation, or do we fall back on rustic jars with corks in because they
>look more period than glass screwtop jars?
>
>Cairistiona
The most usual solution would have been in pottery jars. These are usually
known as apothecary jars -- most commonly they are in a majolica-type of
ware, with blue or green decoration. The usual shape is fairly tall,
narrower at top and bottom than in the middle, which has a concave curvature
(sorry if the description isn't the clearest). And these jars would be
closed not with corks (the use of cork for stoppers is very late, if I
recall correctly), but with a piece of parchment tied down with a cord over
the projecting lip of the top of the jar. I have also met mention in account
books of pounded spices and mixtures being delivered from the spice merchant
in bags (I can't recall off the top of my head whether cloth or leather), so
I suspect that this would also answer your needs. Would you like me to dig
up the exact references?
Francesco Sirene
David Dendy / ddendy at silk.net
partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene at silk.net
Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:26:18 -0700
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - transporting ingredients
hey all from Anne-Marie
Cairistiona asks:
>>Okay, so we have the spice box set up and the sacks for larger quantities of
>>things like wheat and rice. How did people in period store and/or transport
>>powders like amydoun, powdour douce, and so on? Do we have any pictures or
>>documentation, or do we fall back on rustic jars with corks in because they
>>look more period than glass screwtop jars?
le menagier or Chiquart, one of those guys, mentions that you are to store
your spices in leather bags. He also mentions that you are to buy them
whole and powder them yourself (for freshness sake? I think?).
Francesco is right about the apothocary jars as well...that's how the spice
shop is shown to store them in the illos, like the Tacitium sanitas, but we
dont see folks carting them away in those beautiful majolica jars. and dont
forget your sugar came from the druggist as well!
Flour and grain seem to be transported in bags of some sort of white
material (course linen? it was the cheapest fiber for most of Europe),
according to the manuscript illos.
- --AM
From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Thanks Olwen::::5000 bottles of spice on the wall, 5000 bottles of spice.
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:56:22 -0400
> On a friends advice, I began saving those Starbuck chilled coffee bottles.
> The mouth is large and the lid fits tightly and they hold a good quantity,
> plus I have the added bonus of enjoying the coffee!
> Olwen
I use Polaner's All Fruit jars. They are a great size, and although they
are clear instead of dark glass, the lids have a seal in them, and the
amounts I buy to fill them don't last longer than a year or two anyway, so
they stay as fresh as their life span, usually. It forces me not to buy too
much when purchasing in bulk, which is a good thing, too. I also have a
great offer from Ball Jars for green glass storage jars in various shapes
for pretty reasonable prices that I'm considering buying a bunch of. Sorry,
no web site, but a phone number: 1-800-392-2575.
Christianna
always a fan of recycling
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:51:09 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thanks Olwen::::5000 bottles of spice on the wall,
5000 bottles of spice.
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Another suggestion: If you can find them, Mickey beer bottles make
wonderful spice jars...they're even dark colored glass, which keeps your
spices better. You'll need to find a supply of corks for them. The good
news is that it's not hard to find folks who are willing to help you build
up your supply of bottles!!
Kiri
----- Original Message -----
>I've heard dark glass bottles are better than the clear ones, but
>the clear ones are the only ones I can find in small sizes with
>large mouths consistantly.
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:33:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice Storage
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I don't think it was used for storage, but there is a picture of a 13th
century Jewish spice box (or b'samim box) from Spain at
http://www.fathom.com/feature/190130/ . The box is on display at the
Victoria and Albert Museum.
That might be a place to start your research.
Mordonna
lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
>>>
I currently keep most of my spices generally in a dark place in screw
top glass jars that i've bought - and I have labels on the bottles in
Arabic.
There's a Collegium coming up soon and they asked folks to make
displays. So i'm thinking of putting together a bunch of my stuff. I
want to print out my articles on the two 13th century spice boxes and
put spices on display in containers labeled in Arabic.
Some European stuff suggests that at least in some times and places
spices were kept in leather pouches (14th c. France, IIRC)
But i haven't found any clear information on in what sorts of
containers the Arabs and related cultures kept their spices.
Has anyone come across any related information?
--
Urtatim, formerly Anahita
<<<
Pat Griffin
Lady Anne du Bosc
known as Mordonna the Cook
Shire of Thorngill, Meridies
Mundanely, Millbrook, AL
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:19:29 -0500
From: "ysabeau" <ysabeau at mail.ev1.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice Storage
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
One of my first stops in Berlin was to a working medieval village
(yes, in the heart of Berlin!). I was excited to see the spice
merchant because I had just moved and needed to stock my kitchen.
I promptly bought a bunch of spices. I don't know the research
they put into it but they did their best to make it as authentic
as possible...they even worked the field with reproductions of
period tools.
The spice merchant had his spices in large cloth bags that sat
inside large jars. They were arranged in triple rows around the
stand with cards on some kind of stick stuck into the space
between the bag and the jar with the name and price. When you
ordered, he would take a paper funnel and scoop your spices into
the funnel and twist the top closed. I would assume that the
funnel had to be glued but I have a fuzzy image of watching him
curl the paper into the funnel, fill it and twist it. He did it
very quickly. I might have to play with some paper to figure it
out. I ended up with a bag full of little funnels filled with
spices.
If you can read German (the translator doesn't do a very good
job), the website is http://www.dueppel.de/
The longer side of this story is that I had only been in Berlin
for three days. I was standing on the U-bahn platform when I saw
this woman in medieval clothing jump off the train and head for
the stairs. Completely forgetting where I was, I called to her in
English and asked "Excuse me, are in the SCA?" Without missing a
beat, she turned and said "No, I'm one of the tunnel people from
Beauty and the Beast!" It turns out that she was SCA and they were
on their way to a field trip to the village. I changed my plans
and headed off to the village for a fun and educational day.
Ysabeau
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 18:52:30 +0200
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice Storage
To: ysabeau at mail.ev1.net, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Am Donnerstag, 28. April 2005 16:19 schrieb ysabeau:
> The spice merchant had his spices in large cloth bags that sat
> inside large jars. They were arranged in triple rows around the
> stand with cards on some kind of stick stuck into the space
> between the bag and the jar with the name and price. When you
> ordered, he would take a paper funnel and scoop your spices into
> the funnel and twist the top closed. I would assume that the
> funnel had to be glued but I have a fuzzy image of watching him
> curl the paper into the funnel, fill it and twist it. He did it
> very quickly. I might have to play with some paper to figure it
> out. I ended up with a bag full of little funnels filled with
> spices.
The trick with the paper funnel is impressive, and old-school retailers
can do it without glue. However, I doubt it is period.
The cloth bags, on the other hand, are. This is most likely taken directly
from an illustration in the Buch der Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung (IIRC)
that shows a spice merchant with his wares in bags, arrayed on the table in
front of him. I made cloth bags for spices and found that they work fairly
well for unground stuff, but I still prefer (barely defensible) glass jars in
a wooden box for ease of transport. One day, when I get rich, I'll buy
lathe-turned wooden jars :)
Giano
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:23:45 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spice Storage
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Johnna suggested i write to Charles Perry! So i did. And got an
answer back pretty quickly! Below is my message and his response.
Urtatim, formerly Anahita
(that's err-tah-TEEM)
----- My Message -----
Dear Mr. Perry:
I'm an avid cook, especially of Southeast Asian, Near and Middle
Eastern, and historical food - and, when I lived in Los Angeles, I
often cooked Mexican from Diane Kennedy's and Rick Bayless's books.
I use your translation of the so-called Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook
with great frequency and I purchased "Medieval Arabic Cookery"
shortly after it was published. I have been enjoying them immensely,
and cook from them with some regularity, including for dinner
parties. In fact, even though I am not Christian, I cooked and ate a
number of the Lenten recipes from the Book of the Description of
Familiar Foods this year before Easter.
One thing I've been thinking about is spice storage in the "average"
kitchen within Medieval Arabic culture. My recollection from reading
some 15th century European cookbooks is that spices were often kept
in leather bags at that time. But I do not recall reading what the
average Medieval Arab cook stored spices in, if there was a typical
storage container.
I wonder if you might have any information on the subject or
suggestions for books that i might be able to find. Alas, I do not
read Arabic, although I can make out some words. I can read French,
and with a dictionary can decipher a fair bit of German, Italian, and
Spanish.
I no longer live in Los Angeles, but I often read your articles on
the internet. I find them most informative and enjoyable. I thank you
so much for sharing your knowledge, ideas, and experiments.
Sincerely,
----- His Response -----
Thanks for the kind words. I've labored long and hard in this
field, it's gratifying to hear that somebody appreciates it.
I think the leather bags everybody mentions were used in
transporting spices overland (woven panniers were also known) but not
used for kitchen storage. There might be some information on this
subject in "Social Life in Baghdad Under the Abbasids" (not sure of
the exact title) by M.M. Ahsan which was published in the 1980s by
the Librairie du Liban; long out of print but it's probably in the
Cal library system somewhere. (Ahsan is learned, but I'd take what
he says about the nature of dishes with a grain of salt, he's
obviously one of those scholars who never go into the kitchen.)
The medieval cookbooks don't say anything about where spices
are kept. The most likely place would have been small pottery
vessels, though some things might have been kept in glass jars (the
word "jar" actually comes from Arabic); I imagine saffron might be
one, because you wouldn't have huge quantities of it in the first
place. There are references to putting a "lid" or "cover" (ghata) on
pots and jugs (not in a spice context) but I don't know how
tight-fitting it would have been. Often there are instructions to
cover the mouth of a vessel with cloth, esparto or leather. You could
also store things in a wooden box (huqqa).
In Europe, where spices were rare and precious, a great house
would lay in a store of spices which would be watched over and ground
to order by a servant known as a spicer. In the Middle East, where
spices were cheaper and more abundant, people shopped for spices more
frequently. To me, this implies that that they did not keep large
quantities of spices at home. They might have kept spices open in
small bowls. The spice used most abundantly was coriander, so I would
not be surprised if there were jars for coriander (and pepper), but I
don't think people kept any spices very long at home.
In Middle Eastern spice shops, spices are usually kept in
wooden bins until they're brought out for display. I expect that was
the medieval practice also. Bins, pots, boxes, but probably not
leather bags, which would probably have been emptied in the shop and
gone right back on the road.
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:00:58 -0500
From: Christina L Biles <bilescl at okstate.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Paper twists of spice (Was spice storage)
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> The trick with the paper funnel is impressive, and old-school retailers
> can do it without glue. However, I doubt it is period.
>> I agree. Paper wasn't all that cheap during the Middle Ages/Renaissance.
Paper twists of spice show up in early seventeenth century Dutch art. I
haven't got a pre-1600 image yet, but I'm still looking.
This one dates to 1627:
http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/aria/aria_assets/SK-A-4646?lang=en
I have another from 1615 from a still life by Clara Peeters (the one with
the flat wedding tart with rosemary & gold charms) that I can't find
online at the moment.
-Magdalena da Cadamosto
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:17:31 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paper twists of spice (Was spice storage)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
The paper wouldn't necessarily have come from a book. At least
in England during this period there were any number of broadsides
(definition: Broadsides--printing on one side of a single sheet of paper)
being printed and distributed. These could be anything from
proclamations to legal notices to scandalous songs and ballads.
They advertised plays, boats leaving for the New World, sermons, etc.
They could very well have been used by a merchant to wrap up a small
purchase for a housewife or servant. The other possibility that comes to mind
is that it could be discarded paper from a mistake or trial run at a printer.
(How many sheets do I waste at times today trying to get the xerox to copy
what I want in the format, darkness, size, etc. that I want?) What was done
with discarded paper? One images that some was recycled into more paper
possibly, but is it outside the realm of possibility that the thrifty
Dutch would not have used in some other fashion?
Johnnae
Huette von Ahrens wrote:
> Printing or decoration? Someone could have painted the shell or
> carved it. Perhaps it is
> a piece of stiff cloth or decorated leather? I know that I am
> grasping at straws, but I am
> having a hard time with the concept that someone desecrated a book to
> wrap spices in paper.
> ::Shudder::
> When this painting was done in 1612 or so, printing was becoming more
> common, but would someone
> really have torn out a page of a book to wrap spices in it? I can see
> the Victorians doing that.
> I have actually held in my hands a Victorian era law book that was
> falling apart. Someone had cut
> up a vellum illuminated manuscript and pasted a strip of it onto the
> spine to cover up the
> stitching. I wanted to cry. But would a 17th Century spice merchant
> have done that?
>
> Huette [once an librarian, always a bibliophile]
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:35:06 -0400
From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: FW: FW: [Sca-cooks] Paper twists of spice (Was spice storage)
To: "SCA Cooks" <Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
More info from the off-list Temair. (She's just recently developed a
late-period persona - Dona Teresa - living at 5 minutes to midnight, 1599 so
she's perpetually 29 :) Temair is 6th Cent. Irish.
Christianna
Thanks for the pic. Did you look at it? The paper twist looks like a
page from a book. And I really, really like the nautilus shell goblet
(behind and to the left of the spice plate).
I would disagree about paper twists being 'period'. As usual, it
depends on when and where. For Temair no, for Dona Teresa, probably
yes. Books were printed for 150 years by that time, there must have
been some that no one wanted. A quick google search found:
"Until the sixteenth century, buying and trading were done mainly in
bulk. There was little need for wrapping or packaging. Customers
provided their own containers, such as baskets, jugs, or bowls. But as
towns and cities grew, goods could be purchased in smaller quantities
as they were needed, and it was convenient to do shopping more
frequently. Therefore, items such as grain, beans, buttons, and
needles required some kind of wrapping or packaging to contain these
smaller quantities.
Bookstores often took manuscripts that failed to sell as reading
materials and sold them to merchants as scraps for wrapping paper. The
paper was twisted into a cone and folded up at the bottom. This became
the first paper bag. Soon paper makers also discovered that they could
use the course settlings from the bottom of their vats to make a
low-quality wrapping paper."
http://silosandsmokestacks.org/resources/FieldTripGuide/shopping_bag_history
_project.htm
(with the usual caveat for internet info)
Tara
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:49:43 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cleaning Cupboards
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Over the weekend we got into a cleaning frenzy. My spice cupboard
> was hit hard. Ground spices/herbs that I felt or knew were at least
> a year old went out. There are some whole spices that are at least
> that old that I'm keeping.
>
> Please, is there a better rule of thumb to go by?
> Molli Rose
I suggest the rule of nose, instead. Some spices lose their potency
more quickly than others. Cinnamon lasts much longer than
coriander. It also depends on how the spices are stored. You want
to keep them away from light, heat, and moisture.
Take a whiff, or sprinkle a small amount on a piece of bread, plain
chicken, or other appropriate food. If it's just a little weaker,
you can simply increase the amount you use. If it's tasteless,
stale, or rancid, pitch it.
Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:20:44 -0500
From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Cleaning Cupboards
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>>>
Over the weekend we got into a cleaning frenzy. My spice cupboard was hit
hard. Ground spices/herbs that I felt or knew were at least a year old went
out. There are some whole spices that are at least that old that I'm
keeping.
Please, is there a better rule of thumb to go by?
Molli Rose
<<<
6 months or so for dried herbs (green leafies)
6 months to 1 year or so for ground spices
2 years + for whole spices, longer for heavier/thicker things like
peppercorns, chunks of root, etc.
Just rules of thumb, mind you. Smell and looks and taste are the best way
to tell. Many things are fine if you use a bit more, some things (like
dried parsley) just end up tasting like dirt, and more just tastes like more
dirt. Mileage will definitely vary.
Christianna
home to older seasonings than all of the above!
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:09:40 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cleaning Cupboards
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> 6 months to 1 year or so for ground spices
I'd put it at less than that for these:
6 months or less for ground ginger
1 month for ground cardamom
2 months for ground coriander
3-6 months for ground caraway
7 days for ground nutmeg
Almost indefinitely for ground cloves
> 2 years + for whole spices, longer for heavier/thicker things like
> peppercorns, chunks of root, etc.
--
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 00:23:54 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How long do whole spices last??
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Hello from long-lost Phillipa Seton.
Welcome back!
> Can someone tell me how long whole spices last? I have some that
> are at least 5 years old.
A lot will depend on several issues.
For one, on the form of the spices.
Whole spices keep better than ground. Ground cinnamon that has not
been well stored may well taste like faintly cinnamon flavored dust.
And second, on how they have been stored.
If they have been stored (1.) in a very tightly sealed container, one
that does not admit air, like a well sealed glass jar, AND (2.) in a
dark place, AND (3.) in a cool place (not the fridge, just somewhere
that doesn't get hot), the spices may still have some flavor.
The best cubebs i ever had were those i bought in the mid-1970s and
didn't use until the early 21st century. I didn't really know what to
do with them and kept them over, lo, these many decades, in a very
tightly sealed glass jar in dark and relatively cool places.
I joined the SCA in 1999 and cooked my first feast in 2000. Those
ancient cubebs turned out to be larger and to have superior flavor
than any of the freshly purchased cubebs i have since bought.
So it rather depends...
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:49:04 -0400
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How long do whole spices last??
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
-----Original Message-----
On Aug 6, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Heleen Greenwald wrote:
> Can someone tell me how long whole spices last? I have some that are at
> least 5 years old.
> Phillipa
That will vary according to how they were stored, how old they were
when you got them, and a number of other factors.
Probably the simplest thing would be to grind a bit and see how it
tastes and smells.
Welcome back, BTW! Don't be a stranger!
Adamantius > > > > > > >
I pulled some whle cubeb out last week that had been sealed in a half pint
jelly jar in a carboard box on a shelf for at least 3 years. I ground some
in a mortar, and the volitiles were still quite bright and pungent. It
probably lost some punch over the years, but I would say that with proper
handling, 5 years is not out of the question. Freezing some spices can make
them last still longer . . . . my long pepper is going on 6 years, or longer
in the freeze, vaccuum sealed. Just like 'new'.
niccolo difrancesco
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:08:03 -0400
From: "Stephanie Ross" <hlaislinn at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How long do whole spices last??
To: "SCA-Cooks" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Niccolo wrote:
<<< It probably lost some punch over the years, but I would say that with proper
handling, 5 years is not out of the question. Freezing some spices can make
them last still longer . . . . my long pepper is going on 6 years, or longer
in the freeze, vaccuum sealed. Just like 'new'. >>>
I think it would depend on what part of the plant the spices came from.
Leaves are very delicate and gradually lose potency after about a year.
Ground spices last about as long. Berries like whole cloves, juniper and
pepper keep longer. I think the long pepper if whole would keep about
indefinitely. A big wake-up call on what herbs actually smell like freshly
dried came to me when I worked at the health-food store several years ago.
They carried Frontier herbs in bulk. The little jars of cardamom you buy
for $12 or so at the grocery are ancient beyond belief. Freshly ground
cardamom will clear your sinuses due to its strong camphor/menthol smell.
Ground it doesn't keep long before it loses that pungency.
~Aislinn~
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 08:39:50 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How long do whole spices last??
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Can someone tell me how long whole spices last? I have some that are at
> least 5 years old.
> Phillipa
I have some whole nutmegs that I bought in '80 or so, kept in a small
glass bottle with a tight stopper. When I use it, I grate off a bit
to a fresh surface, then grate what I need. It's lost some strength,
but still better than ground nutmeg from the store, even when that is
"new".
Whole seeds like fennel or coriander, I usually discard any older
than 3 years old. They still have some flavor but not enough to
suit me. I bought the big bottle of black pepper from Sams and it
was gone before I felt the need to discard it, maybe 3 years.
Ranvaig
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 01:32:37 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Spice Containers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I would be very hesitant about using cork covered jars for spices and
the like. Corks, by their nature, allow an exchange of the air within
and without the bottle, thus allowing the essential oils, the
flavoring agents, of most spices to escape. Corks work very well for
wine bottles, where you want a certain amount of exchange, albeit a
very limited amount, so the wines can age, but wine bottles are also
kept on their sides so that they remain wet, thus swelling the corks
and keeping the exchange very limited. A dry cork, however, will allow
considerably more air exchange, and aging is NOT very good for spices,
particularly powdered ones.
On 10/5/06, Lynn Hunter <rohanna1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have little, eensy-weensy pottery jars that seal with corks for mine for
> spices not used regularly, or for stuff like ginger and cinnamon, I have a
> set of green glass jars that also seal with corks. I tend to buy in the
> smallest amounts I can, since the strength to do any cooking can be iffy.
>
> Ro
--
Saint Phlip
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:26:17 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Spice Containers
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Hmmmm. Good point. The oregano I had in a corked bottle like that dried out
too darn fast. Maybe we should make angled-in cylindrical tops to
gravity-fit, maybe with a bit of bee's wax around the edge to hold it in
place? Just a thought.
Sel.
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 03:04:40 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Spice Containers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
An inverted truncated cone should work well as a stopper, if you can
make sure the angles of both the "cork" and the neck are the same, or
very close. Perhaps with the stopper covered with a carefully fitted
and glued piece of this, soft leather, that after fitting and gluing
is covered with softened beeswax? It would be worth an experiment, at
least. One concern I would have with beeswax applied any other way
would be the ground spices adhering to the stopper and/or the neck,
and thus opening up gaps.
Another possibility, that would be a bit fiddly might be a top shaped
rather like a shot glass, with a swelling at the bottom to help seal
the hole. Beeswax could them be applied outside the neck of the bottle
to avoid that difficulty.
Of course, when in doubt, drop back and punt ;-) How did they actually
deal with this in period? I'm thinking that spices were ground to each
usage, rather than stored as a powder for any length of time.
On 10/6/06, Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hmmmm. Good point. The oregano I had in a corked bottle like that dried out
> too darn fast. Maybe we should make angled-in cylindrical tops to
> gravity-fit, maybe with a bit of bee's wax around the edge to hold it in
> place? Just a thought.
>
> Sel.
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 14:50:08 -0700
From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite spice containers
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
I use the glass/plastic lid jars from Cost Plus. They fit my spice rack and
looked better than the recycled commercial jars of the same size and shape,
and were soooo much better than the little metal tins of another brand. The
jars had clear, preprinted labels on the front bottom edge.
I restocked my supply from Whole Foods and the display was incredible, but I
KNOW about light AND the rack was above the stove, so I now store them in
drawers (the jars are just the right height). I put round, clear,
preprinted labels on the lids. One drawer for spices and one drawer for
herbs. I cut cardboard to make dividers to keep them from shifting around
too much when opening/shutting the drawer. I love the new arrangement
except that I cannot SEE the beautiful colors.
I love Alton's magnetic metal containers, but I do NOT have sufficient
cabinet doors to store all the herbs and spices I keep on hand, nor could I
easily afford that many of them!
Katira al-Maghrebiyya
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:16:42 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Favorite spice containers
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
In response to Sharon's request for spice containers...what I use aren't
period, but work nicely. With the assistance (VERY WILLING
assistance!!) of my husband, I have a collection of Mickey beer
bottles. They are shaped like little barrels, with a short neck and
wide mouth...and they are dark green, which helps protect the
spices/herbs from sunlight. For stoppers, I purchase corks from either
a hardware store or from a source online. Mostly they live in a base
cabinet with a rollout shelf. I've found that this combination seems to
work very well.
Kiri
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:10:51 -0400
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite spice containers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
-----Original Message-----
>>> I'm still not getting messages, but have been going through the
archives.
In response to Sharon's request for spice containers...what I use aren't
period, but work nicely. With the assistance (VERY WILLING
assistance!!) of my husband, I have a collection of Mickey beer
bottles. They are shaped like little barrels, with a short neck and
wide mouth...and they are dark green, which helps protect the
spices/herbs from sunlight. < < < < < < <
I don't know if the same wavelengths are a problem with our general spices,
but green bottles are almost zero protection against sunlight for hops in
beer. Brown bottles will prevent "light struck" or "skunked" beer, which
happens when light interacts with compounds in hops. Green and clear glass
are the same . . . no protection. Just thought I'd throw that out in terms
of green glass and potential light protection. NOTE: The