seeds-msg - 1/20/08 Sources for period plants and seeds. NOTE: See also the files: spices-msg, herbs-msg, p-herbals-msg, rue-msg, woad-msg, saffron-msg, lavender-msg, herb-uses-msg, spice-storage-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ TO: Caitlin niConair FROM: Etaoin SUBJECT: woad You were asking about a supplier for woad. Richters, of Goodwood Ontario, is a good supplier for many unusual seeds. They supply woad seeds (as well as weld, dyers broom, alkanet, coreopsis, madder and a number of other dye plants). Woad seeds are inexpensive ($2.50 per package, 1988 prices) and they will ship to Canada or USA. They accept VISA and Mastercard and you can phone or fax your order to them. Their catelogue is about $2.00 and is very interesting. They can be reached at: (416) 640-6677 between 8:30 am and 5:00 pm, Mon to Sat (phone) or fax to (416)640-6641 24 hours a day with credit card orders. Their address is Richters, Goodwood, Ontario Canada, L0C 1A0. I've ordered from them several times, they seem like a good supplier. * Origin: The Homestead * TORONTO, ONT * (416) 272-4067 * (1:259/415) Subj: period roses Date: 18 May 92 From: EPSTEIN at ksuvm.ksu.EDU (Emily Epstein) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Greetings from Alix Mont de fer. Not too long ago it was brought to my attention that period roses were available locally at, of all places, K-Mart. The variety is called Austrian Copper (Rosa Foetida Bicolor), which, according to the Roses of Today and Yesterday 1992 catalog, grows 4-5 ft. high, is winter hardy (no protection needed) in Wisconsin and Minnesota, and "dislikes being fussed over". According to David Austin (_The_Heritage_of_the_Rose_, Antique Collector's Club, 1988 ISBN1-85149-020-5, p.345) it was grown in the Arab world as early as the 12th century, although both the catalog and the K-mart package simply call it pre-1590. I purchased one last year from Roses of Today and Yesterday but planted it too late for bloom. It was the first of my roses to bloom this spring. The flowers are very pretty, single, with the front of the petals a deep orange-red and the back yellow. The smell is different from most roses, but pleasant. I took one to a shire meeting and passed it around. The most frequently used word was "spicy". In fact, Lady Tamara went so far as to say "It smells more like food than like flowers." The bushes at K-mart are cheaper than the one I bought by mail, priced at $6.27. The price should go down soon, as it's getting late in the season. If the K-Mart in Manhattan, Kansas carries this variety, I'm sure others throughout the U.S. do too. I purchased 7 old roses from Roses of Yesterday and Today last year, including Rosa Mundi, Apothecary Rose, Autumn Damask, Musk Rose and White Rose of York. Despite being planted late, they all made it through a hot and drouthy Kansas summer and a hard spring freeze with minimum fuss. All but 2 are blooming now. The catalog is very descriptive, with detailed information on size, care and history, and black and white illustrations. Each year's cover features an arrangement of assorted roses in full color, with a tracing-paper key that can be laid over it. Prices range from $8.75-$10.00. The catalog itself costs $3.00. The address is: Roses of Yesterday and Today, Inc., 802 Brown's Valley Road, Watsonville, CA 95076. <=========> Alix Mont de fer |=======| (Emily Epstein) |* * * *| Shire of Spinning Winds XXXXXXX (Manhattan, KS) VVVVV YYY epstein at ksuvm.ksu.edu | ||| XXXXXXX From: JLC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (JENNIFER CARLSON) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Skirrets (was Re: Feast Menus) Date: 17 Nov 1993 17:33:12 -0500 Skirrets, as His Grace Cariadoc pointed out, generally cannot be found in American markets. HOWEVER: If you like gardening and period food plants, I know of THE seed catalog you'll want: Nichols Garden Nursery Herbs and Rare Seeds catalog. Nichols carries seeds for a good number of hard-to-find vegetables and herbs that are called for in period recipes, like skirrets, lovage, lady's mantle, and salsify. They also carry laurel trees, hop root cuttings, and saffron crocus bulbs, as well as dried herbs, essential oils, books, and brewing and winemaking supplies. You can get their catalog by writing or calling: Nichols Garden Nursery 1190 North Pacific Highway Albany, Oregon 97321-4598 (503)928-9280 Many thanks to His Grace for the recipes! Yours in service, Dunstana Talana the Violet Northkeep, Ansteorra Jennifer Carlson Tulsa, Oklahoma JLC at vax2.utulsa.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ritchiek at sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) Subject: Re: flax seed Organization: Purdue University Computing Center Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 17:08:48 GMT To those interested in finding flax seed ect. try Richters in I believe Ontario Canada. I know its Canada anyway. They have seeds for flax, Woad, Saffron ect. all kinds of herbs ect. I don't have the address here at work today but could get it if you need it. -Isabeau Pferdebandiger, Barony of Rivenstar, Middle From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: flax seed Date: 30 Nov 1993 05:20:20 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley gary van lingen wrote: >My partner and I have decided to try growing flax but need to find locations >where the seed can be purchased (the average seed store not stocking said >seed on anywhere approaching a regular basis). If other flax growers are on >the Net, could you please post where you get your seed. Thanks. When I grew a flax crop, I got the seed from my local health-food store. I have no idea what the store thought they were selling it for (how does one normally eat flax seed?) but the stuff was completely unprocessed and germinated enthusiastically. The other advantage to this source is that the seed is amazinly cheap by the pound! Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn/Heather Rose Jones From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: flax seed Date: 30 Nov 93 09:22:48 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. Apparently the fax seed from health food stores is not as good for fibres as the stuff bred specifically for linen production. If anyone wants to grow flax specifically for fibre and not for linseed oil the magazine "spin off" in Summer 1992 did a whole load of articles on flax cultivation preparation and spinning. (no, I'm nothing to do with the magazine apart from reading the odd issue) They also carried and advertising feature with names and addresses of suppliers of seeds and tools as given below. Jennifer Vanaheim Vikings *********************************************************************** Suppliers of flax seeds for fibre: Abundant life seed Foundation, P.O. Box 772 Port Townsend Washington 98368 (Variety = 'cascade') Mavis Atton, The Shepherds Den, Irish Blocks road RR1, Annan, Ontario, Noh 1Z0, Canada (Variety = 'Natasia') Euroflax,Inc., Box 241, Rye, New York 10580 (variety = 'viking') Landis Valley Museum Heritage Seed Project 2451 Kissel Hill Road, Lancaster, Pennsylvania 17601 (Variety = 'Ariane') Dale Liles, 2142 Cherokee Blvd., Knoxville, Tennessee 37919 (heirloom variety) Otto Richter's Goodwood, Ontario LOC 1A0, Canada (Variety = 'Regina') Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, P.O. Box158, North Garden, Virginia 22959 (varietys = 'Ariane' and 'Norfolk Queen') SUPPLIERS OF FLAX PROCESSING TOOLS write for info. & price lists Glimakra, 1388 Ross Street, Petaluma, California 94954 Alden Amos, 11178 Upper Previtali Road, Jackson, California 95642 From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: flax seed Date: 30 Nov 1993 11:05:14 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Remember that flax has been bred for two different uses: oil, linseed oil Fibre, line flax If you want to grow flax to process and spin DO NOT get seed for an oil producing variety. Caveat: the seeds from line flax can be used to produce oil and the oil producing flax can be processed for fibre; but the fibre is not nearly as nice. (look up "tow") wilelm, married to a spinster Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: hwt at bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup) Subject: Heritage Seeds (was Re: flax seed) Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 14:36:27 GMT In article , gvanlin1 at mach1.wlu.ca (gary van lingen) writes: |> My partner and I have decided to try growing flax but need to find locations In Canada, Richter's Herbs, Goodwood, Ontario. They mail order to the rest of the world. This information from Dave Platt, dplatt at ntg.com: These varieties aren't easy to find in the commercial seed catalogs... but there are a number of smaller companies which carry them. Here are some companies I've dealt with: Seeds Blum Idaho City Stage Boise, Idaho Good selection early in the season; they often sell out of many popular varieties of heirloom vegetables by February. Order *EARLY*... I ordered on 1/4/90 and got my order promptly, but a couple of years ago I ordered in February and didn't get my seeds until early April. They tend to get very badly backlogged, and are hard to reach on the phone. It's too late to order from them for this planting season... but you could request a catalog next fall and order for next year's season. Abundant Life P.O. Box 772 Port Townsend WA 98368 Smaller selection than Seeds Blum. Good service, the times I've ordered from them. They have some short-growing-season, cool-weather tomatoes (e.g. Siberia) which might be well suited to your location. J.L. Hudson, Seedsman P.O. Box 1058 Redwood City, CA 94064 [no phone, don't bother asking Information] Wonderful "World Seed Service" catalog... ornamentals, herbs, and food plants from all around the planet. Has a small selection of open- pollenated vegetable seeds, and a collection of seeds collected among the Zapotec Indian tribes in the mountains of Oaxaca, Mexico. Good service, nice folks. Has seeds for Purple Calabash tomatoes... a variety which must be seen to be disbelieved (it's INCREDIBLY ugly) and tasted to be appreciated (the most tomato flavor I've encountered to date). Redwood City Seed Company Redwood City, CA I don't have their street address handy; they do have a phone in the 415 area code. Decent selection of open-pollenated varieties, and other useful plants. All of these companies are small, and would certainly appreciate your sending a dollar or two for their catalogs. Also worth having is a catalog from Gardens Alive! 5100 Schenley Place Lawrenceburg, IN 47025 (812) 537-8650 This is an excellent one-stop source for gardeners who want to purchase pre-blended organic fertilizers, diatomaceous earth, Safer insectidical soap, beneficial insects, milky spore, cover-crop seeds, botanically- derived insecticides, BT, Tanglefoot, sticky-traps, pheromone traps, floating row covers, bee attractant, and other garden-without- poisoning-the-whole-neighborhood materials. The catalogs are very informative; several times a year they include pictures of common insect pests and diseases, and describe low-impact ways of dealing with same. The prices are good... more often than not they're lower than prices for similar products at local stores (when the stores even have them). -- Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions From: Lhiannan at f42.n280.z1.fidonet.org (Lhiannan) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: flax seed Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1993 07:31:00 -0500 -=> Quoting Heather Rose Jones to All <=- > In article , > gary van lingen wrote: >My partner and I have decided to try growing flax but need to find locations HRJ> When I grew a flax crop, I got the seed from my local health-food HRJ> store. I have no idea what the store thought they were selling it for Um. Well, it depends on what you want the flax for. If you want to grow it for the seed, the health-food store variety is great. But if you want fiber . . . The varieties used to grow flax for seed are only about 18" tall. I did some tests with growing flax from different sources a couple of years ago. The health-food store variety and the stuff the university Agronomy dept. gave me were both seed-type and were very short. The third source I used was from a seed company advertising heirlooms. It grew about 3' tall. My dad says he remembers flax growing 6' in 'his day.' Now, of course, you want the name of the company, don'tcha? I can't find it, but I'll look again when I've had some sleep. Lhiannan Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: period edible plants From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honur Horne-Jaruk) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 93 11:00:48 EST Organization: I'll take a triple serving, please Keywords: seeds of change Summary: Adress and much more on Period plants Respected Friends: I lost the original post asking for info on modern sources for period plants, and my reply, to a carnivorous program. I'm trying again. For period fruit: Miller nurseries advertise in every gardening publication. They sell, along with many other marvelous antique varieties, a genuine, no joke, documented pre-1600 apple tree-- the Gillyflower. It's very aromatic, sweet, and soft-fleshed. I suspect it was originally prized for producing unparalleled sweet (unfermented) cider. Here in inland NH it always ripens during Pennsic week. (SIGH). Furthur north/inland, it would be great to come home to; enough further south/coastal and you could bring Authentic Cider with you for a really knock'emdead party contribution (Invite Me!) This timing was probably part of its value, since mid-august is WAY ahead of the NH commercial crop. They also sell at least one period rose, called by some nursuries the `Robin Hood' rose- Rosa Rugosa. the ad calls it `Hardy, profusely flowering, deliciously fragrant and heavy bearing, with hips the size of plums.' All true. It is also implacably invasive. Plant one in the middle of each patch of ornamental bamboo (Southeast kingdoms read Kudzu), then stand back and take bets. Based on thirty year's experience, I suggest short odds on the rosebush. In the East it stabilizes/takes over threatened beaches, since it's perfectly happy to divide and conquer on a diet of salt and sand... Well, I did warn you. For non-woody plants, Seeds of Change is only one of a long list of sources for heirloom plant seed. its adress is 621 Old Santa Fe Trail #10, Santa Fe, NM 87501 It costs three bucks, refunded with order. But be VERY careful. `heirloom' and `period' are at best vaguely related terms. You might have much better luck with the small catalogues of European gourmet veggies! Just one example of the problem (From a '40s National Geographic): dark red beets and orange carrots are both 1700's mutations. Pre-1600 carrots were whites and yellows; beets were yellow, pink, striated and (!)purple. Megagiant Gurney's Seed, difficult though it may be to believe, has both yellow and striated beets, both as exclusives. Mother Earth news issue 116 (may-apr 89) has a list of large & small seed companies on page 55; most of the adresses would still be good. Check last years' Feb-Apr mags. at your library for more. While you're there the librarian can find you the old Geographic article, and probably some books, about the origens and ancestry of food plants. There's just no way to summarize that here, and the info is very important. An example of why I belive this, and a perpetual sore point with me: Favas are the ONLY old world bean, cran- and blue- berries the ONLY new world bush fruits. If I had a nickel for ever kidney-bean soup and cranberry bread I've ever had shoved at me, complete with quoted recipe calling for FAVA beans and BOG berries, in the past 21 years-- I might not have plane fare for Estrella, but I could certainly pull a respectable raid on the Stock Clerk's back-issues list! Your desire to learn of and grow Period veggies and fruits is a laudable one, deserving all the support I hope you get. Don't give up. This is the kind of thing that got me playing this game in the first place. I'd love to hear what kind of stuff you track down, and will try to send you whatever I can find if you send me an Email adress. With hopes for your success, I remain, yours in service to the Society: Honour Horne-Jaruk. (KSA Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf) From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: period edible plants Date: 7 Jan 1994 03:58:15 GMT Organization: Cornell Law School Honur Horne-Jaruk (Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf) wrote: > For period fruit: Miller nurseries advertise in every gardening > publication. They sell, along with many other marvelous antique varieties, > a genuine, no joke, documented pre-1600 apple tree-- the Gillyflower. Miller is one source, but Southmeadow Fruit Gardens, 2363 Tilbury Place, Birmingham, Michigan 48009, has a much larger selection of period fruit trees, as well as a very informative catalog. My memory from the last time I went through it is that there are a dozen or so period apples, as well as one or two plums, a "maybe" cherry, ... . > They also sell at least one period rose, called by some nursuries > the `Robin Hood' rose- Rosa Rugosa. Roses of Yesterday and Today, in California, has a bunch of period varieties; I am afraid I do not have their address ready to hand. > An example of why I belive this, and a perpetual sore point > with me: Favas are the ONLY old world bean, cran- and blue- berries the > ONLY new world bush fruits. This is a little misleading. Lentils and garbanzo beans (aka chickpeas) are also period. So are soybeans, although I have never seen evidence of their use in Europe in period. The European bilberry is a member of the same genus as the New World blueberry; I am not sure how similar it is in taste. There are both old world and new world cranberries, although the current commercial varieties are new world. My source for much of this information is the book by McGee on the history of food--I have a copy around somewhere if anyone wants more detailed cites. -- David/Cariadoc DDF2 at Cornell.Edu From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honur Horne-Jaruk) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: period edible plants Summary: more info and new period plant source adress. Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 08:43:52 EST augment at world.std.com (Michael Bergman) writes: > I'm curious -- what about Swedish LingonBerries? I assume that > Goosberries aren't berries at all...also, are the "broadbeans" that > they grow at Plimoth a fava? I am fairly certain they are an old > world bean, whatever they are. > > --Harald Longfellow > -- > --Mike Bergman Voice: (617) 271-0230 Best answer I can give you, Harald: Gooseberries are a bush fruit, and old world. I don't own an encyclopedia and don't know about ligonberries, but an encyclopedia of plants is probably going to tell you they're old world in origen. The broadbeans are almost certainly really Favas or a backbreed from same. Once there were many varieties of broadbeans, all from the _Favis_ family; But with the introduction of more prolific, hardier beans from the Americas, the vast majority of them were lost because of failure by the seed-owners to maintain the plantings. Why Favas survived I don't know; they may have been prolific enough to compete, or there may simply have been this REALLY STUBBORN Italian family... Shepherd's Garden seeds 30 Irene St. Torrington, Ct.06790-6627 has a new catalogue, with the striped beets , among other more-like-period veggies. Their Golden beet crop, however, failed last year, and they don't have enough seed to sell this year. They also have some great Old World/Period flowers, like Single hollyhocks. Herbs too. Hope this helps. I remain, yours in service to the Society- Honour Horne-Jaruk, RSF; Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: fruit trees Date: 11 Feb 1994 15:30:42 GMT Organization: Cornell Law School In article <01H8QMVSXUCS91W20W at delphi.com>, ALBAN at delphi.COM wrote: > i'd like to plant fruit trees on some land i own, and in particular > i'd really like to plant varieties that are in period (so-called > "heirloom" fruits and vegetables). does anyone out there have any > experience with this? The Miscellany contains an article listing period fruit varieties and sources. Alban should have no trouble finding a copy--he sells them. If you want to taste period apples, there is a firm called Applesource that sells a wide range of different varieties by mailorder, including a number of period ones. Or you could stop at the grocery store on your way to Pennsic and see if they have "Rambo Apples" (Rambeau d'ete--accent missing). They sometimes do. David/Cariadoc DDF2 at Cornell.Edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: destry at netcom.com (Max Fellwalker) Subject: Re: : Period Veggies Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 05:27:31 GMT david director friedman (ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu) wrote: : Aleksandr the Traveller asserts that "The carrots we eat today did : not exist in period. They were bred up from the little roots under" : queen anne's lace. : I believe that carrots and queen anne's lace are related, and it may : be true the the former were bred from the latter, but if so it : occurred long before the end of our period. Carrots in period : cookbooks are clearly substantial vegetables, and at least some of : them were colored; I believe Le Menagier refers to them as red or : orange. I believe it is true that there has been significant furthher : breeding since thhe end of period, so that the carrots we normally : eat are not identical to those eaten in period. But that would be : true for lots of vegetables. A good place to get information about possible "period" vegetables and to order seeds for many ancient and heirloom vegetables is the "Seeds Of Change" catalog and the "Deep Diversity" catalog available from Seeds of Change at (505) 438-8080 P.O. Box 15700, Santa Fe, NM 87506...their catalogs cost a few dollars but are worth it (and contain much information). If I could find my D D catalog I might get more info but what I recall about carrots (as we know them) are that there origins are Central Asia and the Near East...and I've grown several Heirloom varieties that are very red. -Max- -- ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: polsons at cruzio.com (The Polsons) Subject: Re: Oh woad is me.... Organization: Cruzio Community Networking System, Santa Cruz, CA Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 00:57:08 GMT In article <39rbpk$9oh at golf.ustores.missouri.edu>, Shannon Ward wrote: > Regarding woad and other dye/pigment plants. Does anyone know where to get seeds for these? I want to start my own pigment garden, but is there some company that sells woad, weld, madder, etc. seeds?? > > Tatiana Richters Goodwood, Ontario Canada L0C 1A0 They have madder, woad, weld, indigo...you name it! Happy mail-ordering! (yes, that IS their complete address) -Willow (polsons at cruzio.com) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: polsons at cruzio.com (The Polsons) Subject: Re: Oh woad is me.... Organization: Cruzio Community Networking System, Santa Cruz, CA Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 02:04:55 GMT In article <3aeobf$7e1 at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA>, millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Bruce Mills) wrote: > In article , > The Polsons wrote: > ]>Richters > ]>Goodwood, Ontario > ]>Canada L0C 1A0 > ]> > ]>They have madder, woad, weld, indigo...you name it! Happy mail-ordering! > ]>(yes, that IS their complete address) > ]> > They also have an email address, which they don't answer. > Akimoya Hmmm....Conrad Richter e-mails back to me all the time...are you sure you have the right address? info at richters.com conrad at richters.com Here's their phone numbers too: voice - (905) 640-6677 fax - (905) 640-6641 -Willow (polsons at cruzio.com) From: millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Bruce Mills) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Richters On-Line Date: 13 Jan 1995 07:55:48 -0500 Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Richters, purveyor of fine seeds and plants, has their own email address. Send mail to info at richters.com for an automated message on how to get information on products and ordering. Akimoya(-dono)(not "san") (I am not affiliated with Richters in any way, other than being a customer) (Their replies are quite prompt) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker) Subject: Re: Question about period food Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 00:32:20 GMT Sheri Stanley (Sheri.Stanley at p1.f1.n107.z180.fidonet.org) wrote: : >> : -+-Max (who knows way too much trivial information for her own good, : >> and : can suggest some good seed catalogs for herbs and vegetables) : Please : There's a wonderful company called "Bountiful Gardens" which sells : organically grown seeds, garden accessories (copper to keep slugs away, etc), : and books. They specialize in raised, double-dug biointensive farming...very : interesting. They also sell a collection of herb seeds not to be rivalled. : I've ordered Angelica, Peppermint, Pennyroyal, and Oregano from them. All the : seeds grew well, and their ship time is excellent. Of course, I've lost their : address (natch!)...check in the back pages of Mother Earth News magazine, : though, that's where I first heard of them. I've used their catalog for several years,...the address is Bountiful Gardens 18001 Shafer Ranch Road Willits, CA 95490-9626 (707) 459-6410 ---Max -- -- ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... From: donna at kwantlen.bc.CA (Donna Hrynkiw) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: SOURCE: Medieval Roses Date: 24 Jan 1995 17:44:00 -0500 Organization: The Internet Greetings to the folk on the Rialto from Elizabeth Braidwood, gardener. As any gardener knows, one of the most exciting parts of our year is paging through the seed and nursery catalogues in January, dreaming of the garden that could be... I've found a source for many medieval roses and would like to share it with all the other medieval gardeners (who visit the Rialto between weeding and digging). Pickering Nurseries Inc. 670 Kingston Rd. Pickering, Ontario Canada L1V 1A6 Catalogue $3.00 (Can OR US funds) A sample of the roses from their current catalogue appears below. The dates are theirs, but the photos match the period illustrations of roses that I have fairly closely. Alba maxima (The Jacobite Rose, about 1450) white, double, non-recurrent, excellent hips, grows to 7' tall, very fragrant Semi-plena (prior to 1473) white, semi-double, non-recurrent, excellent hips, grows to 6' tall, very fragant. Rosa centifolia ("Provence Rose", "The Cabbage Rose", 1596) medium pink, very double, non-recurrent, grows to 6', very fragrant [Tell you what, unless it says otherwise, -all- of these are non-recurrent and very fragrant. Oh, and "very winter-hardy" too. They're all characteristics of early roses.] Rose of Castile ("The Damask Rose", species, prior to 1600) medium pink, double, grows to 5' York and Lancaster (R. dam. versicolor 1551) varying red, pink and white, double, grows to 5' Apothecary Rose (R. gallica officinalis; species, prior to 1590) deep pink, excellent hips, grows to 3' [This is the find that made me jump up from my chair and shout "YESSS!"] More (with fewer details)... Rosa gallica (prior to 1500) Rosa Mundi (R. gallica versicolor, prior to 1581) Tuscany (1596) Common Moss ("Old Pink Moss", prior to 1600) Austrian Copper (Rosa Foetida bicolor, prior to 1590) Rosa agrestis (species; native to Europe) Rosa eglanteria (syn. Rosa rubiginosa, 'Sweet Briar Rose', native to Europe) Rosa moschata (Musk Rose, 1540) Rosa moschata plena (prior to 1596) R. villosa (Pomifera - 'Apple Rose', native to Europe) Virtually every bush in the entire catalogue (about 20 letter-folded-in- half size pages x about 45 entries per page) is either $8 or $8.50 (both Canadian AND American). This is my second catalogue from Pickering and I only sent my first order away a couple days ago. I'll let you know what happens. Elizabeth Braidwood Who is also expecting delivery of her very own -complete facsimile- copy of Gerard's Herbal... any day now. donna at kwantlen.bc.ca Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: steve.mercer at network.com (Steve E. Mercer) Subject: Re: Source for Saffron Crocus Organization: Network Systems Corporation Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 17:44:05 GMT If you are looking for Saffron Crocus bulbs so that you can grow your own saffron, one place that you can get them is from Nichols Garden Nursery. In their "Herbs and Rare Seeds" catalog they have: [This is a direct quote from the 1994 catalog -Justin] *Saffron Crocus Bulbs* - /Crocus sativus./ Now you can have the pleasure of growing your own saffron, the world's rarest and most expensive spice. The bulbs flower in late fall, producing large orange stigmas from which saffron, a much prized seasoning is obtained. The large crocus flowers are attractive, with colors ranging from rosy lilac purple to deep purple. Cultural and harvest directions included. 6 Saffron bulbs $4.75 12 for $8.50 50 for $31.95 100 for $57.50 [I would guess that the prices are different for 1995 -Justin] SHIPPED ONLY IN SEPTEMBER FOR FALL BLOOM Today most Saffron is commercially cultivated in a Southern band from Spain to the Far East. There was a time in England, from the late crusades to he mid 18th century, when Saffron was grown just north of London near the town of Saffron Walden, Essex. I got the catalog for free by calling them at (503)-928-9280 --- Justin Silvanus Barony of Nordskogen, Principality of Northshield, Middle Kingdom Steve Mercer steve.mercer at network.com From: Mike Huber Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: saffron: crocus bulbs source Date: 5 Sep 1995 20:09:10 GMT Organization: Rockwell Software una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) wrote: >maelred at aol.com (M aelred) writes: > >> I have a source for up to 400 saffron crocus bulbs. >> please Email me for more >> anything else might be advertising (so I can't spll) > Respected friend: > Me, please! > Honour/Una/Alizaunde I have before me the Nichols Garden Nursery catalog, which lists that plant. The telephone # is (503)928-9280 and the address 1190 North Pacific Coast Highway Albany, OR, 97321-4580 I have no dealings with them, except that I'm likely to place an order soon. -------------------------------- Anaximander of Xidon mike.huber at software.rockwell.com From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Lagenaria In a message dated 97-05-03 02:06:20 EDT, you write: << the Italian Edible Gourd is a species of Lagenaria and available from, among others, J.L. Hudson, Seedman (P.O.Box 1058, Redwood City, CA 94064). >> This is the species that I referred to as the Luffa Gourd (sponge). J.L. Hudson is an excellent source for exotic seeds from all over the world! Highly recommended! Their catalog is a reference source that is invaluable to any serious horticulturist/gardener. Luffa seeds are also carried by local sores and all major seed companys including Burpee. Lord Ras From: Baaastard at aol.com Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - The Seed Savers Exchange To all those interested, here is the address of the Seed Savers Exchange: Seed Savers Exchange 3076 North Winn Road Decorah, IA 52101 Membership is $20 per year. I would also strongly recommend buying the book Taylor's Guide to Heirloom Vegetables by Benjamin Watson. It is available through Barnes and Noble bookstores. Pictures and descriptions of a large number of heirloom vegetables, as well as growing information. Also has lists of mail-order seed sources(describing what that company specializes in) and various organizations interested in conserving heirloom seed varieties. If you are looking for sources for anything specific let me know and I'll see if I can find a source for the seeds. Thank you, Michael Farrell Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:42:27 -0400 (EDT) From: DianaFiona at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - help-Queen Ann's La And as a point of interest, I found *white* carrot seed in a California seed company's catalog (Bountiful Gardens, perhaps?). Now if I can just get around to planting them............! Ldy Diana Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:23:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Squash My apologies. I didn't mean to insinuate that one couldn't substitute tthe items you mention if you make it a point to say that is what you're doing and why. I tend to grow (or have grown for me ) the 'special' things I might need for a feast and sometimes forget that others do not have the same resources as I. By the way, if you know someone with a garden space several seed companies now carry a medieval like carrot> Gurneys and Burpees both have read and white carrot varieties listed the last time I looked. They also carry white tomatoes which can be documented to the Elizabethan era where they were used as plantings around homes much as we use French marigolds today. I have seen a variety of 'leaf' cabbage listed also from time to time. With a little gardening know-how and a place to put a 5 gallon container or two outside some of these plants could be grown on a small scale allowing a person to invite over a couple of people for an authentic medieval dish occasionally. :-) Lord Ras Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 13:51:06 -0700 From: Ron and Laurene Wells Subject: SC - Grow your own AMERICAN Chestnuts! >When I was a kid, we used to roast chestnuts on the fire. Nowadays, so many >of the chestnut trees have died due to disease and pollution, It's almost >impossible to find them. I wish you well. > >Phlip If you would like to replenish the population of dwindling Chestnut trees, you can order True AMERICAN Chestnut trees from this Nursery: Oregon Exotics 1065 Messinger Road Grants Pass, OR 97527 541-846-7578 The American Chestnut is guaranteed to arrive blight free, about 2'-3' tall. They are $5 each, catalog number #N089 Or you can order your own catalog (FASCINATING plants, mushroom, trees, and other edible flora in this catalog!) for $4.00 - many pictures, and chock full of information! You're free to tell them that Laurene Wells told you about them, though I don't think it will do me any good. I just love reading their catalog! - -Laurene Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:33:13 EST From: LrdRas Subject: SC - clary sage-source Here is a source for clary sage seeds/plants. I have not dealt with this company so I do not know anything about them. You will notice an 800 number for customer service so you can call and ask questions about pricing, etc. ;-): SEEDS BLÜM HC 33 BOX 2057 BOISE, ID 83706 Orders: 1-800-528-3658 Customer Service: 1-800-742-1423 Fax: 1-208-338-5658 Ras Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:01:09 EST From: DianaFiona Subject: Re: SC - Skirrets (was Gunther's Mashed Carrots and Parsnips) << We have never been able to find skirrets. According to the Oxford English Dictionary they are "a species of water parsnip, formerly much cultivated in Europe for its esculent tubers." Have you ever tasted them? Or do you know where one can find them or get more information on them? We have a recipe for turnip potage which says you can also make it with "pastunakes and skyrwittes", pasternakes being a general term for carrots or parsnips, and I would like to try it with the skirrets if I can ever get some. Elizabeth/Betty Cook >> Well, if you are willing/able to grow them yourself, Nichol's Garden Nursery (http://www.pacificharbor.com/nichols/) carries the seed. I've been meaning to start a bed of them and Good King Henry (Which Nichol's also carries--*love* that catalog!), just haven't found the space yet. Ldy Diana Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:53:27 -0800 From: Ron and Laurene Wells Subject: SC - Feast Fruit - Medlar >>This menu is still rather tentative. One thing you'll notice is the >>absence of the fairly typical medieval dried fruit dish. I may correct >>this. Something I haven't seen anyone talk about serving is bletted Medlar fruits. I have read in several sources that this fruit was very popular in Medival times. I know of a nursery where you can order the young trees, but I don't know how long it takes them to grow to maturity. I've never had the opportunity to taste one myself, but I am very curious. If I ever get my own land, I hope to plant some of these so I can have an opportunity to try them. You can order a catalog from OREGON EXOTICS for $4 from 1065 Messinger Road, Grants Pass, OR 97527 or call 541-846-7578. One Medlar tree is $18. And there is information on history and harvesting in the catalog. - -Laurene Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:51:28 EDT From: DianaFiona Subject: Re: SC - Spices-another source << In an earlier post someone mentioned being able to by saffron crocuses at the nursery. I would dearly love to try and grow these, but have not seen them in Missouri. Our winters do get cold enough to set the bulbs, so if anyone would happen to know of a mail order source, I would be REALLY interested. broccan >> That's easy enough--a number of mail order sources carry them. One of my favorites is Nichols Garden nursery in Oregon. Their web address is: http://www.pacificharbor.com/nichols/ If you don't have web access let me know and I'll get the phone #, etc. for you. Ldy Diana Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:53:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jenne Heise To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Spices On Thu, 21 May 1998, Gayle A Bitker wrote: > On Thu, 21 May 1998 17:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Jenne Heise > writes: > >You can also get seed for it from a catalog, if you are willing to wait > >that long. > OK! My question is: Where can I find such a catalog? We've been > looking for sources for seeds for spices, etc. for a while, but haven't > found any. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I've heard good things about Johnny's Selected Seeds (http://www.johnnyseeds.com/) which has an impressive selection of seeds, including chervil ($1.30 for the packet). Organic Gardening (OG) has periodic articles on herbs and lists herb-seed-selling catalogs in those articles. Or pick up a copy of 'Herb Quarterly' and browse the ads... Jadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental; HERMS Cyclonus) aka Aunt Bunny, mka Jennifer Heise Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:47:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine Harper To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Spices On Thu, 21 May 1998, Gayle A Bitker wrote: > OK! My question is: Where can I find such a catalog? We've been > looking for sources for seeds for spices, etc. for a while, but haven't > found any. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Horizon herbs is a favorite source of mine. http://www.chatlink.com/~herbseed/Welcome.htm Catherine Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:01:27 -0800 From: Jenny Johanssen Subject: Re: SC - parsley root Bogdan - it's funny that I run across a request for info about Hamburg Turnip Rooted Parsley. I am just planting my garden here in Palmer, Alaska and last week I found a package of seeds for "Hamburg Turnip Rooted Parsley" (which I planted). According to the package: "Bring back the forgotten culinary art of rare seasonings with this old-world vegetable. The unusual root has hints of celery yet has a flavor all its own. Harvest in 90 days." "Use roots for salads, soups and stews. Boil and mash or fry. Use leaves for flavoring and garnish. "The seed was packaged by NK Lawn and Garden Co., Minneapolis, Mn 55459 Hope this helps - Jenny Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:35:25 -0500 From: "Robert Newmyer" Subject: Re: SC - oop yorkshire pudding recipe needed! > BTW, can lingonberries be grown here in the states? specifically >in Oregon? Checked my Jung Seed catalog. They sell lingonberry plants and say they are hardy in zones 4 to 7 (good for all of Oregon) J. W. Jung Seed Co. 335 S. High St. Randolph, WI 53957-0001 Phone: 1-800-247-5864 www.jungseed.com Griffith Allt y Genlli Bob Newmyer Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:50:54 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Marshmallows margali at 99main.com writes: << hey, Master A, any idea where i can find any more of the stuff? >> Pine Tree Seeds offers the seed of the marshmallow plant in their catalog. To obtain their catalog (recommended) go to http://www.superseeds.com/ Ras Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:46:48 -0500 From: "Alderton, Philippa" Subject: SC - Fw: Seed catalogs Since It's getting to be that time of year again, here's a listing of online seed companies some of you might be interested in if you want to grow any of your own foods and herbs this summer. Phlip Philippa Farrour Caer Frig Southeastern Ohio - -----Original Message----- From: George F. Carmichael To: phlip at morganco.net >http://www.johnnycyberseed.com/vegindex.htm >http://www.southernexposure.com/ >http://WWW.WorldSeed.COM/ >http://www.territorial-seed.com/ >http://www.hirts.com/ >http://www.shop-the-malls.com/burpee.htm >http://www.shop-the-malls.com/burpees_seeds.htm >http://www.webspawner.com/users/pumpkintwocata21/ >http://www.ferry-morse.com/ >http://www.gardentokitchen.com/ >http://www.gardennursery.com/ngncon.htm >http://www.parkseed.com/ >http://www.rcsind.com/rcscontest.html >http://www.vg.com/ >http://www.s-p-h.com/ >http://www.stokeseeds.com/catalog.eht >http://www.willhiteseed.com/ourcat.html > >Apiaries >http://www.lycos.com/cgi-bin/pursuit?query=Apiaries Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:01:12 -0400 From: Angie Malone Subject: Re: SC - cordials + Borage If you have a local farm and garden store try there. In NY we have places called Agway, where they have borage seeds. I ordered mine from Shumway seed company a few years ago, but haven't planted more since. I also like Pinetree Seeds. http://www.superseeds.com You can order smaller seed packets from them to try different things and the seed packets are about half the price of the larger ones. They also have some interesting possibly period seeds. They have the edible gourd seeds. They are in the italian vegetable seed section and here's the blurb: IT66. CUCUZZI (55 days) Italian edible gourd. You can tell that these are truly gourds from the leaf shape and the white flowers, but when harvested young, the uses are identical to zucchini. The flavor is stronger, however--difficult to describe. Vines are long and spreading. As with the zucchetta tromboncino, if you don't harvest them young, these will grow to a remarkable length, close to 4 feet. 20 seeds .55 Angeline Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:35:19 +0100 From: "Oughton, Karin (GEIS, Tirlan)" Subject: RE: SC - Apple breeds? > From: HICKS, MELISSA [SMTP:HICKS_M at casa.gov.au] > Some friends of mine have recently bought a property/farm in rural Victoria, > Australia. They sent the following request for information on "period" > apple species. Can anyone here supply further info or suggest some > avenues of research for them? > > Meliora. > > > ---------- > > From: Kim & Ian Stanley-Eyles[SMTP:heathen at tpg.com.au] > > To: Meliora & Drake > > > > In the furtherance of our rural & mediaeval activities, we are thinking > > of planting some apple trees in the orchard from our period (or > > thereabouts) and ask if you have any information on these. > > > > Autumn Permain syn Summer Permain late 1500's England > > Court Pendu Plat syn Wise Apple plus others pre-1500 Europe > > Devonshire Quarrenden pre-1678 England possibly from France > > Fenouillet Gris syn Carraway Russet 1608 France > > Golden Harvey syn Brandy Apple 1600's England (Herts.) > > Gravenstein possibly Schleswig-Holstein pre-1667 possibly Italy > > Issac Newton's Tree (original tree unknown) c.1660 England (Lincs.) > > London Pippin syn Five Crown 1580 England I have the perfect answer for you, AND it keeps it in the family ; ) My father in law was the director for the Brogdale Trust ( a charity) , which hold the UK gene banks for apples, pears, plums, cherries, vines etc etc etc.... Gerry said he had something like 4500 different varieties of apple trees on site. They can provide information, seminars, root stock - you name it. They have a web site at http://www.brogdale.org.uk/ - they run a mail order service etc. I don't know about the legalities of importing stock into Australia, but I'm sure they can help. I recommend just browsing through their mail order service ....... And as an aside - if any one is looking for an interesting plum to plant, the "transparent gage" gets my vote for the most bizarre fruit ( hopeless for storage though ) - it forms this beautiful huge fruit which is transparent - when the sun shines through you can see the stone in it etc, and when you bite, it just bursts in your mouth with an explosion of flavour.......have lots of wipes on hand :) Karin Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:31:46 -0700 (MST) From: Ben Engelsberg Subject: Re: SC - blue corn Native Seeds-Search 526 N. 4th Ave. Tucson, Az. 85705 520-622-5561 Last time I was down on 4th ave, they were still in business. Glad to help, Ben. Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:27:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Linda Peterson Subject: Re: SC - blue corn On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Ann Sasahara wrote: > Last year, I saw a place in Albuquerque where these seeds where available > (only open on Thursdays; and they have Hopi pink corn too): > > Native Seed Search > 144 Harvard Dr SE > Albuquerque, NM 87106 > (505) 268-9233 The store is still here. Their phone message says send $1 to: Native Seed Search PO Box 4865 Albuquerque, NM 87196 for a catalogue, or see their web page at www.nativeseeds.org Mirhaxa mirhaxa at morktorn.com Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:36:35 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Questions about Archives and Carrots I just looked at a site yesterday that offered seeds for heirloom carrots in a variety of colors: http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople/ Wild carrots have white roots. Le Menagier talks of carrots with red roots. Gervase Markham mentions carrots of "sundry colours", and Gerard describes a yellow carrot, and a blackish-red carrot. Carrots colored pale orange and dark red can be seen in oil paintins of the 16th century. Epulario uses carrots to make a jelly a sanguine color. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:06:23 +1000 From: "HICKS, MELISSA" Subject: SC - Medlars in Australia Medlars are indeed difficult to obtain and I have never seen the fruit sold commercially. I recently managed to find a nursery in Australia that sells them: Unicorn Gardens Ballarat-Colac Rd DEREEL VIC 3352 Ph: 03 - 5346 1562 Email: unicorngardens at easymail.telstra.com.au Mail-order: YES And the proprietor, Julie, looks like becoming an SCA member. My Nottingham has just started to show green buds in the last couple of days, but the Dutch still looks dead. However according to my Botanica, Canberra is in hardiness Zone 8 (if that translates well to the rest of the world). Meliora. Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:25:57 -0400 From: rhiannon at madcelt.com Subject: Re: SC - RE: Onions Lord Ras wrote: > Does anyone happen to have a telephone number for Guerney's which is where > I originally purchased my walking onions? Here you go: Gurney's Seed and Nursery Co. Order Number 1-605-665-1930 Customer Service 1-605-665-1671 [And their web page is at: http://www.gurneys.com/ -Lady Brighid ni Chiarain] Rhiannon Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:41:37 -0600 From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" Subject: SC - Lady apples source Lady apple trees are available from Miller Nurseries in NY in their antique selection. Other period apples they sell are Summer Rambo, Sops of Wine and Snow (fameuse). 1-800-836-9630 Akim Yaroslavich Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:46:47 -0800 From: Ron and Laurene Wells Subject: SC - Alpine Strawberry plants << Alpine strawberry seeds are carried by most seed companies and can also be found in many garden center seed racks. They are not difficult to grow, have good germination rates and can be planted along fence lines or even along hedges and walkways if space is at a premium. While there are limited sources for the plants in the US, that is not a problem since seed is readily available. Try Pine Tree, Nichols, Agway garden centers, Lowes, Burpees, etc. Ras >> Hummmm--I seem to recall that germination is improved by a period of cold, from the last time I was trying to find space to plant some. Or am I confusing my plants again? ;-) BTW. I actually did find a few plants available at a good nursery a few years ago. They didn't fare well where I had them--probably too shady--but the few berries I got were yummy! Ldy Diana - ---------- You can buy the PLANTS through Raintree Nursery, in Washington. http://www.raintreenursery.com/ They have several varieties of strawberry plants (they also sell a Medival MEDLAR tree that I am anxious to purchase!) including the White Alpine strawberry you all are talking about so much. Their catalogs are very informative and fun to read. I'm sure you won't be dissapoint to order one! - -Laurene Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:50:54 -0600 From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" Subject: SC - Period plant sources Laurene writes: >You can buy the PLANTS through Raintree Nursery, in Washington. >http://www.raintreenursery.com/ >They have several varieties of strawberry plants (they also sell a Medival >MEDLAR tree that I am anxious to purchase!) including the White Alpine >strawberry you all are talking about so much. Their catalogs are very >informative and fun to read. I'm sure you won't be dissapoint to order one! While I would very much like another medlar (I had a fruiting one at my old house), I am very hesitant to pay the kinds of prices commercial nurseries are charging (plus shipping). Medlars, I understand, like pawpaws do not transplant as well as most ordinary fruit trees unless they are rather small. What burns me is paying $24.99 for a bloody rooted twig! I do however have an alternative route to try. As a landscape architect, I have wholesale sources for seed of several expensive or hard to find species. Would anyone on the list be interested in splitting pound lots of seeds for the following species?: Asimina triloba (pawpaw) 28.00/# Cornus mas (Cornelian cherry) 12.00/# Crataegus monogyna (English hawthorn) 15.00/# (rosehaw jelly) Crataegus laevigata (English hawthorn) 18.00/# (rosehaw jelly) Mespilus germanica (Medlar) 21.00/# Pinus pinea (Italian stone pine) 12.00/# (pinenuts) Taxus baccata (English yew) 28.00/# (herb garden edging) Minimum order for me is $50.00 plus shipping and the prices are from the 1999 catalogue so they may be a little higher. I find that growing from seed gives better plants that can be transplanted in quantity when small, resulting in a faster maturity than planting a larger nursery grown plant. The larger ones often take 2 years or so just to recover from shipping and transplant shock. This is the way to get more plants very reasonably. Most of these are true to seed except medlars and cornels but all of the named varieties are mostly modern and very few in number. I don't think there will be any adverse differences in non grafted seed-grown plants from any period types anyway. Akim Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 16:41:41 -0500 From: Angie Malone Subject: Re: SC - Period pumpkin recipes >Those long-necked pale-green Italian gourds in Tacuinum Sanitatis are >really big. If i can find something like them at a local market... > >Hey, Lord Ras, how easy are they to grow? And where'd you get the >seeds? And how were they to eat? > >Anahita al-shazhiyya I'm not Ras, but here's the information I know about. The seeds are available in at least two gardening catalogs, one I remember the name of and one I don't. They are easy to grow if you have a big enough growing season. The edible cucuzzi which is the pale-green with white flowers take 110 days. Actually Baker's Creek Heirloom Seeds has more than one variety that is not curcibita, and you can order a catalog from them on line: http://www.rareseeds.com The place I saw the seeds I think was pinetree seeds, but I don't have a url handy for them. Angeline Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 18:31:35 -0800 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: SC - Re: period pumpkin recipies At Baker Creek Heirloom seeds, i looked on the curcubit page, but didn't see anything that looked likely. Are gourds somewhere else on-line or do i need to order a hard-copy catalog? For Pinetree seeds, try: http://www.superseeds.com (Aelfwyn left off the www. part) I found the Italian edible gourds as cucuzzi at Pinetree. Anahita the black-thumbed Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 17:19:14 -0400 From: "Hupman, Laurie" Subject: RE: SC - Cherries >ekoogler at chesapeake.net writes: ><< I was able to get the Montmorency's dried from Baker's Catalogue.. >> >The important question is > where can one obtain the plants? :-) >Ras Here's one place on line: http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/ They have the Montmorency and the Northstar, which is a hybrid of the Morello and something else. Rose :) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 17:45:53 EDT From: Mbatmantis at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Cherries There are three types of cherries; Sweet, Sour (pie) and Duke. There are two types of sour cherries: Amarelle (clear juice yellow flesh) or Morello (red juice and flesh) . The Montmorency is the amarelle type. It is the standard sour cherry. They are very easily found at any nursery that deals in fruit trees or from any mail order source. They are available through Stark Bro's for $20 for semi-dwarf trees. Dwarf trees are a little more. The web site is MySeasons.com . All cherries need a considerable winter chill and moist but well drained soil. R. Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:01:32 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: SC - Where to Get Historic Food Plants and Seeds A recent thread on a non-SCA list turned up these resources. It's probably a bit late in most places in the Northern hemisphere to plant, but it's a good time to make a wish list for spring. The following stuff is all forwarded, none are from me. - ------- As to the white carrots... I found some seed available at Bountiful Gardens (who specialize in things like heirloom plants). Here is the web site and what they say about the Belgian White Carrots http://www.bountifulgardens.org/bountiful-gardens.html ************************************* Carrot — Daucus carota — ALL/Matures 9-11/Harvest 3-6/Yield 8-23/ Spac 3 (or broad- cast carefully)/ Cons 11.7 (.75-1)/Area 32-64, Camb, Wh 29-58 Apr# 800 except Camberly, Juwarot 500, White 300 Many gardeners are amazed at the quality and flavor. of our varieties, even "standard" ones like our Nantes stand out. Easily grown in average garden soil without many stones, which cause deformities and splitting. Avoid freshly-manured soil. Prefers light, loamy soil. Do not allow the seed bed to dry out after planting. Plant in succession for constant supply. Medicinal: detoxifier, supports liver, kidneys, diuretic, etc. Belgian White — (1885) This variety grows pure white - very striking on the table! Mild flavor unlike other carrots but quite delicious. A very productive carrot which can get large. Also for those who don't tolerate carotene. N Price $ 1.50 - ------- Redwood City Seed Company, in Redwood City, California, specializes in heirloom and old-world seeds. They can be reached at http://www.batnet.com/rwc-seed/ or P. O. Box 361, Redwood City, California 94064 U.S.A. Craig & Sue Dremann, Proprietors PHONE: (650) 325-7333 They are wonderful people, and they have lots of crazy interesting stuff! The rare plants suppliment to the Redwood City Seed Co's catalog has this gem: (http://www.batnet.com/rwc-seed/supplement.html) TOMATO Costoluto Catanese. The oldest variety of tomato in Europe, from the 16th cent. PKT. $2.75 - ------- Here are the catalog resources, I highly recommend them to anyone interested in heirloom varieties... Nichol's Garden Nursery Herbs & Rare Seeds (541) 928-9280 e-mail: nichols at gardennursery.com THE BEST SELECTION!!! (lots of heirlooms & herb teas & Saffron crocus) Shepard's Garden Seeds (860) 482-3638 http://www.shepherdseeds.com (decent selection, veg, roses, & some herbs) Richters Herb Catalog (905) 640-6441 http://www.richters.com AWESOME! Every herb imaginable, even Hemlock & Henbane... - ------- BTW, the book I've been consulting this evening (I have others, but can't find them right now) is _Blue Corn and Square Tomatoes_, an excellent book with lots of fun anecdotes; their information is impressively bibliographied, and seems to be pretty good as far as this ex-botanist can tell. (by Rebecca Rupp, 1987, Storey Communications / Garden Way, ISBN 0-88266-505-7) From: "Mercy Neumark" To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 08:06:28 -0800 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great source for seeds and other stuff There is a GREAT source for seeds, seedlings and gardening stuff via the internet! http://www.territorialseed.com/ You can request a free catalog and they have every sort of fruit, veggie, herb and mushroom (yes, you TOO can grow your own fungus!). They have several asian varieties of various food stuffs and about three pages of different types of garlic. Tres cool! I plan on picking up a bunch of herbs (once I pay my bills down more) that I can't get locally (they have seedlings on some of the stuff, so if you aren't experienced in starting a garden from a seed, this will work for you). Of course, if you have a black thumb, that's a different story. :) I'm waiting for a copy of my own catalog (my friend Perry had one that I was looking over), so once its here, I can share it with my local cooks if you are interested. Just let me know. :) --farmer Artemesia Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:34:15 -0400 From: "Daniel Phelps" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Botanical Site To: "Cooks within the SCA" Anyone seen this site regards botanicals? Theatrum Botanicum, A Catalog of Rare and Strange Plants www.greenstranger.com From: Heather Murray Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: period citron and other plants Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:10:02 GMT Mark S. Harris wrote: > Margaret Northwode wrote: >> >> >>>Cookingwise, In addition to learning a lot about the sort of tid-bits >>>one would send in a care package in late period Italy, I also got to see >>>a real citron for the first time and taste real candied citron for the >>>first time (a fresh citron looks like a cross between a lemon and >>>Cthulhu). Apparently Mairi Celidh found two of them _at the Giant Eagle_ >>>in Butler. >>> >>>I would say that we are beginning to create a specialty market, what do >>>you think? >>> >>>- Jadwiga >> >>Actually, for those in the right places, or who do well at container >>gardening, there's an operation local to me who, I believe, sells citron >>trees (and fireberry, and jujube, and paw paw, and medlar, and sour >>cherry, and currant, and...). I'll have to go back over the little >>catalog, if anyone's interested. We are quickly approaching fall >>tree-planting time, so interested parties may wish to contact them soon. >>They do ship. >> >>Outside of buying some of their blueberry vinegar, and intending to buy >>a couple of rabbiteye blueberry bushes, I've no connection to anyone there. >> >>Margaret Northwode > > I would appreciate a description of this place and its contact info when > you find it. I'd like to add it to this file in the PLANTS, HERBS AND > SPICES section of the Florilegium: > seeds-msg (60K) 12/27/00 Sources for period plants and seeds. > > Who knows, maybe *I* will get adventuresome enough and have time enough, > to try to grow some of these things. > > Stefan Let's see - now that I've found the thing again: Hidden Springs Nursery 170 Hidden Springs Lane Cookeville, TN 38501 hiddenspringsnursery at hotmail.com Organically Grown Edible Landscape - Plants for People and Wildlife Written or email correspondence preferred, but number as published in their catalog, is (931) 268-2592. They are most easily reached after working hours CST or maybe a mealtime. Plants shipped UPS, UPS 3rd day or US priority mail. Deliveries must be accepted in peron on a weekday!shipping to your work or a neghibor is recommended. Shipping season begins Nov. 3 and ends April 26th for the 2004-2005 planting season. From their catalog: "About Our Business "We are different from most modern businesses in that our promary objective is not to make huge profits, but to provide plants we feel good about and to make an honest, simple, living. Using sustainable agriculture principles, we remain small and rely mainly on our own labor. We work to provide quality, disease-resistant plants without the use of chenical fgertilizers or poisonous sprays. Often our bottom line is not cost, but unvironmental impact. We encourage you to grow no-spray or low-spray frtuis in your yard to help cut back on world pesticide use, the petroleum it takes to truck food across the country, and to foster your good health. "All this keeps us very busy, but it does allow us to work the land we live on and to have personal contact with many of our customers. When you communicate with either of us, you are in touch with the same person who propagates, grows, digs, and ships your plants. Testing what we sell in our orchard, we try to make what we learn available to others. We welcome questions abd obesrvation. Because we are outside so much, it is easiest to contact us by mail or email. Your letter or answering machine message won't get lost in the shuffle because we respond right away." They don't have a web space that I know of, but do have a catalog. The price on mine was $1.00, but I got it free because I picked it up at a farmer's market where they were selling items such as homemade blueberry vinegar, aronia jelly, rose hip syrup, and ripe persimmons and chestnuts. It turns out that I may be wrong about the citron - what I was thinking about was their "Flying Dragon" trifoliate orange, and the only citrus that will stay alive this far north. However, they do carry currants, figs, jujube, pawpaw, medlar, mulberry, quince, and persimmon, to name a few those here might be interested in. If you'd like more information, contact me at my email, being careful of the spamtrap, and I'll see what I can do for you. I don't represent them in any way, personally, outside of my experience as a customer. Margaret Northwode Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:44:34 -0800 From: "Cathy Hrding" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Medlars and lovage To: "Cooks within the SCA" My sister has given us a gift cert. to a local orchard nursery for the holidays and in the catalog I found medlars. http://www.raintreenursery.com/ Maeva Glymm Mere An Tir Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:30:00 -0500 From: Barbara Benson Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Gourds To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org We have in the past discussed what the actual period gourds that would have been used in the recipes for gourds and their lack of availability. I am uncertain whether the conclusion was reached on this list or elsewhere - but I believe that the gourd that would have been used is commonly known as the Chinese Bottle Gourd. Many have lamented it's lack of availability here in the US, so I thought I would post my finding here. Apparently it is relatively easy to grow! I found a source for seeds in my garden planning and if anyone else might desire to grow them here is the link: http://www.evergreenseeds.com/evergreenseeds/calgouropo.html Serena da Riva Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 00:47:23 -0600 From: "otsisto" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Carrots in Dutch paintings To: "Cooks within the SCA" >>> I have the red, orange and purple [carrots]. if anyone knows where I can get seed for the green and/or black I would like to know. I do love growing the wierdos radei <<< No black or green but white and yellow http://www.rareseeds.com/catlisting.php?cat=11 http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/us/en/list/root-crops/2 On a side note, how about some purple tomatoes? http://www.rareseeds.com/catlisting.php?cat=88 In old news http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/05/16/carrots.purple/ Lyse Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:53:58 -0600 From: "otsisto" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Carrots in Dutch paintings To: "Cooks within the SCA" I have not and I only know of one person who has and they had no problems with getting their order but they moved and never planted the seeds. I have ordered in the past from Morgan & Jackson from their iris catalog years ago and had no problems with them. Product was good condition and is growing great in my FiL's garden. Lyse -----Original Message----- I've managed to overcome my lifelong distaste for nasty acid-y raw tomatoes with the dark purple-to-black breeds. Less acid, more deep tomato flavor, o yum! I'm preparing my garden plot now. Have you actually done business with these people and are the reliable? The selection certainly seems impressive. Meanwhile, back on topic... I may get a variety of the carrot seeds specifically for growing and serving at a summer feast. That should impress somebody. Selene Colfox Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:45:48 -0600 From: "otsisto" Subject: [Sca-cooks] FW: Carrots To: "Ansteorra Cooks Guild" I inquired about black and green carrot availability with Morgan and Jackson. This is there reply. Lyse -----Original Message----- Thompson & Morgan sells purple carrots, a variety called 'Purple Haze' which is what the varieties that are referred to as black usually are. Green carrots are new to me. I have never seen them in my references or any of the catalogs or websites I've looked at. Regards, Susan Jellinek Horticulturist Thompson & Morgan Seedsmen, Inc. P.O. Box 1308 Jackson, NJ 08527-0308 hort at thompson-morgan.com 1-732-363-2225 ext. 3005 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:36:53 -0800 From: "Rikke D. Giles" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] FW: Carrots To: Cooks within the SCA On 2006.02.16 13:45, otsisto wrote: > I inquired about black and green carrot availability with Morgan and > Jackson. Check out Johnny's for unusually colored carrots. That would be www.johnnyseeds.com. They have orange, red, yellow, white and purple/black. I've never seen a green. That doesn't mean they aren't out there, but, I am an organic farmer (my other day job) and I try and keep up on these things. They are really making strides with the new (old) colors. The taste and texture of these new varieties has improved immeasurably over the ones which were sold only a few years ago. None of these are directly related to the medieval carrots, as they are all new hybrids from the orange carrot. They might have strains of the wild (white or purple) carrot mixed back in. Aelianora de Wintringham A&S Champion, Barony of Dragon's Laire Kingdom of An Tir Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:36:36 -0500 From: "Radei Drchevich" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] FW: Carrots To: "Cooks within the SCA" "Purple Dragon" is available from Wal-Mart seeds. radei Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:48:07 -0600 From: "otsisto" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Carrots in Dutch paintings To: "Cooks within the SCA" Sorry, I had Morgan & Jackson on the brain for some reason. I was Meaning Thompson & Morgan. Lyse -----Original Message----- I have never seen a catalog from Morgan & Jackson that was not either Iris or Roses. Do they sell anything else?? joy radei Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:13:17 -0500 From: "Barbara Benson" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] bottle gourds (european squashes) To: "Cooks within the SCA" On 3/11/06, henna wrote: > I remember somebody on this list growing bottle gourds for eating. I > want to grow a few plants this year. > Does anybody know where I can find which varieties are edible? I've > found a distributor of various pumpkin & bottle gourd seeds, but he > markets his bottle gourds as decorative and doesn't say anything about > edibility. > > Finne This is the website that I have found that has the seeds for the edible bottle gourd - still widely eaten in Asian cultures. http://www.evergreenseeds.com/evergreenseeds/calgouropo.html I do not know if there is a difference between these and the ones that your source might sell. Serena da Riva Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 22:22:28 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seeds for period vegetables To: Cooks within the SCA Patrick Levesque wrote: > I'd like to know if you can recommend any reliable source for period > vegetable seeds (Montreal is a 5B rusticity area, so I can't grow everything > over here, but most of the basic stuff should be all right). > > As always, organic produce and local distributors are preferred, but I'm not > too sure I'll have a lot of options in this situation. > > Petru You might start here. http://www.halcyon.com/tmend/links.htm Merchants and Purveyors of Heirloom Seeds The website is The Heirloom Vegetable Gardener's Assistant Johnnae Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 22:41:25 -0400 From: Jane Boyko Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seeds for period vegetables To: Cooks within the SCA Ritchies in Ottawa carries heirloom seeds but they do not indicate the earliest time from. I picked up some very interesting radish varieties. The company is called OSC http://www.oscseeds.com/frames.html. As I am experimenting with container gardening, am an archivist I thought that heirloom vegies would be a fun experiment. Another company that sells heirloom products (herbs etc) is called Richters in Woodbridge, Ontario. While I don't recommend ordering from them directly for yourself (I have horror stories from dealers and private clients) you can possibly order through your local nursery if they order from this company. I remember seeing an heirloom rose bush which they indicated had it roots in the middle ages (okay, please forgive the pun). I believe it was dated to the mid 1500's. http://www.richters.ca/ You can order a catalogue and it will give you lots of terrific ideas. My makes good dreamtime reading. Marina Edited by Mark S. Harris seeds-msg Page 35 of 35