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Period herb books. Modern translations and reprints.

 

NOTE: See also the files: herbs-msg, seeds-msg, herb-uses-msg, lavender-msg, rue-msg, spices-msg, garlic-msg, Basic-Herbs-art, herb-mixes-msg, p-agriculture-bib.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:49:34 -0600

From: khkeeler <kkeeler  at unlinfo.unl.edu>

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Re- Beans in a Period Recip

 

DianaFiona at aol.com wrote:

> <<

> Carob is mentioned in the Dioscorides' herbal (AD 64 and the most

> important medicinal herbal across all of Period)

>   >>

>       OK, next question---anyone know where to get a modern translation of

> this? Or, for that matter, any other of the numerous period herbals. I have

> Culpeper's and an abreviated edition of Gerard, but I haven't seen any others

> offered. But they are quoted freqently, so I tend to think that they are

> around--somewhere......

>   Ldy Diana

 

I don't think its' easy.  What are the sources--

Dioscorides is out of print.  There is an English translation from the

1930's in older university libraries. I admit to xeroxing it but I'd buy

a copy if one were available.  

 

Galen and Pliny on plants anyone?

 

The Tacunium Sanitatis --Medieval Health Handbook.  two very different

editions were printed about 10 years ago, doubtless both are out of

print--tho I found one at a used book store on at trip to Minneapolis

recently. I can get you the ISBN's if you want.

 

Macer's the Virtues of Herbs (1000 AD I think) was translated by D.P.

O'Hanlon about 1980 and published by Hemkunt Press, Delhi.  I think it's

still in press through obscure New Age importers--I can provide an

address.

I would like to find a copy of the original Latin.  Anyone know a

source?

 

Hildegard of Bingen's medical writings.  Because noone in Period quoted

her, I haven't hunted, but I think they are available in recent

translations.

 

There are a variety of mid Period herbals in various languages based on

Dioscorides.

Anyone have sources for those?

 

By late Period

Gerard and Culpeper, both reprinted.

There was a facsimile edition of Turner's herbal published in England in

the last decade--I lusted after it but wasn't willing to pay the price.

 

Banks' herbal, the Grete Herbal--those I think are still only available

at the big libraries.

 

I found Cockayne on Leechcraft (complex title, but a translation of all

the AngloSaxon Medieval stuff he could find) in a library but I don't

think there's a version in print.  Anyone know?

 

Other things for an herbalist?

 

Agnes deLanvallei

Mag Mor, Calontir

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:26:42 -0700

From: Evelyn Alden <katriana  at chanute-ks.com>

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Herbals

 

Dover has reprinted the complete Gerard's herbal, most any bookseller who

carries Dover books should be willing to order it for you.  Last time I

checked it was $85 dollars, or thereabouts.  weight is 10-15 lbs hardbound.

Dover also publishes _The Garden of Pleasant Flowers" by Parkinson, orig.

published in 1629, just under $25.

 

katriana

Calontir

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:12:58 -0600

From: theodelinda  at webtv.net (linda webb)

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Herbals

 

I believe DIoscorides is one of the many Greek & Roman authors whose

works are available in the Loeb editions, which are published by the

Harvard University Press.  You can get ordering information through your

bookeller, or by calling HUP's 800 number, which is available through

directory assistance.  For those who are unfamiliar with this useful

series, they are facing-page translations of ancient authors (Greek or

Latin on the left-hand page, and English on the right-hand one), which

are (for this sort of thing) reasonably priced (the last time I bought

one, about $23)  (This may seem high to people who don't know this

field, but I have seen books in the original language only sell for $60

hb, and $30pb...)  They are hardbound, the Greek ones in Green and the

Latin ones in red.  In addition to the more common authors, like Caesar,

Plato, and Cicero, the Loeb editions include a lot of more obscure

material, like the scientific writers.  For those who are interested in

ancient and medieval farming, they have both Cato and Columella, for

example. The one drawback is that, because the books are small, a text

might require three or four volumes.

                                                 Theo

 

 

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:20:28 -0500 (EST)

From: Carol Thomas <scbooks  at neca.com>

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Beans in a Period/herbals

 

>Tacunium Sanitas - Medieval Health Handbook

 

This is still in print, in paperback, by Ratti, pub. by Braziller.

 

Hildegard of Bingen's "Medicine" is also in print, pb, authors Dr. Wighard

Strehlow and Gottfried Hertzka, MD, publisher is Bear & Co.

It combines exerpts from Handbuch der Hildegard-Medizin with the authors'

ideas on folk medicines and commentary on her recommendations.

 

Lady Carllein

 

 

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 03:18:42 -0500 (EST)

From: <DianaFiona  at aol.com>

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Re- Beans in a Period Recip

 

<<

The Tacunium Sanitatis --Medieval Health Handbook.  two very different

editions were printed about 10 years ago, doubtless both are out of

print--tho I found one at a used book store on at trip to Minneapolis

recently.  I can get you the ISBN's if you want.>>

 

Hummmm, just checked Small Churl Books

(http://www.neca.com/~scbooks/)--they do have it! Here's the blurb:

 

MEDIEVAL HEALTH HANDBOOK

Luisa Cogliati Arano (Braziller)

Selected from five important illuminated manuscripts on health, this

delightful book explains the effects which plants, foods, winds, flowers,

seasons and other factors were believed to have on a person's medical status.

Some examples: beets cure dandruff, roses cure inflamed brains, spinich is

good for a cough, and pinecones stimulate the libido. 153 pages, softcover.

291 illustrations, 48 in color. Size: 6.5 x 9.

Price: $19.95

   Ldy Diana

 

 

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:48:45 -0600

From: kkeeler  at unlinfo.unl.edu (Kathleen H. Keeler)

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: herbals

 

>The only version I know of is:

>Author:         Cockayne, Thomas Oswald, 1807-1873.

>Title:          Leechdoms, wortcunning, and starcraft of early England : Being

>                   a collection of documents, for the most part never before

>                   printed, illustrating the history of science in this country

>                   before the Norman conquest

>Published:      London : Longman, Green, Longman, Roberts, and Green, 1864-66.

>Unless there is a much more recent edition, good luck finding it (and if

>you find 2 copies -- let me know!) and it is a tad too early for an ISBN.

>If you are neat a large library do look for it.  It is great fun.

>Ailene ingen Aedain

 

There's a more recent version--same title, 1961 The Holland Press, London.

So there should be an ISBN, but I don' have it recorded.

Agnes

kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu

 

 

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:49:00 -0600

From: kkeeler  at unlinfo.unl.edu (Kathleen H. Keeler)

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Herbals (was Re Beans in a Period Recip

 

An Arab "health handbook" made its way into Europe, translated at least

four different times and places.  The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti

is a very pretty edition of one of the copies (14th Century, Po Valley, Italy,

apparently commissioned for some member of the House of Cerruti.  ) Judith

Spencer, tr. The four seasons of hte House of Cerruti, Facts on File

Publications, New York andBicester, England. 1983. ISBN 0-8160-0138-3,

originaly $17.95!)  Its more accessible than the Arano book because its a

single whole, with very useful commentary at the end.

Arano's is pretty clearly the core of a PhD thesis which studied all the

extant copies.  It assumes you know more about the 4 humours theory and not

all the names are translated (look for lettuce under under lactuce (the

Latin?)

       Both versions are simply wonderful for the illustrations--which can

be used in all sorts of contexts you never planned.  I used one to document

serving wine from small jugs.  And sent someone else to it for the pictures

of a hen house. The Arano version has more pictures, tho smaller and in

black and white, and so there are more items documentable or that can be

studied from that version.

 

> Macer's the Virtues of Herbs (1000 AD I think) was translated by D.P.

> O'Hanlon about 1980 and published by Hemkunt Press,  E 1/15 Patel Rd. New

>Delhi--110008, but I got it from Auromere (booksellers) 1291 Webster St.

>Pomona CA 91768.  (714) 629-8255 (that's from a sticker in the book, may

>not be current).Its a small book and was under $20.  The translation was

>done with New Age use of herbs in mind (the footnotes link to American

>Indian uses) but its close to being a primary source, being a full

>translation of Macer's work.

 

Agnes

kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu

 

 

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 01:35:33 -0500 (EST)

From: <DianaFiona  at aol.com>

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: herbals

 

<<

Author:         Cockayne, Thomas Oswald, 1807-1873.

Title:          Leechdoms, wortcunning, and starcraft of early England : Being

                   a collection of documents, for the most part never before

                   printed, illustrating the history of science in this country

                   before the Norman conquest

Published:      London : Longman, Green, Longman, Roberts, and Green,

1864-66.

Unless there is a much more recent edition, good luck finding it (and if

you find 2 copies -- let me know!) and it is a tad too early for an ISBN.

If you are neat a large library do look for it.  It is great fun.

>>

 

   Yeeeehaaa! Just on a whim, I did a search on the author's name, and found

a site at the Un. of Alberta library

(http://gate.library.ualberta.ca/MARION/AME-8994) that lists it---and says

that the one they have is a *1965* reprint of the original!

   Then further searches indicated that the original is part of something

called "The Rolls Series" (? Whatever that is.......) and there is a link for

this listing on ORB On-line Referenence Book for Medieval Studies

(http://orb.rhodes.edu/online.html It's a great site--actually has some

links to period documents on-line!), that has this about the book:

 

. 3 vols. London, 1864-1866.

 

I.Herbarium of Apuleius, with its continuation from other writers, the

Medicina de quadrupedibus of Sextus Placitus, and various leech doms and

charms. II.Leech book, bks. 1-3. III.Recipes, prognostics, starcraft, and

charms, with glossaries; and Anglo-Saxon fragments relating to St. Mildred's

abbey in Minster in Thanet and King Eadger's establishment of monasteries.

     It also lists the other sections in the book (Which for some reason

refuse to paste in :-(, but they include the Leechbooks which I'd love to

read!

 

     I can see that I'll have to hit the ILL hard and heavy once Christmas

is over and I have time to think again. ;-) Thanks for the info!

 

   Ldy Diana

 

 

[submitted by "Philippa Alderton" <phlip  at bright.net>]

From: khkeeler <kkeeler  at unlinfo.unl.edu>

To: herbalist  at Ansteorra.ORG

Subject: Re: HERB - Begining Herbalism 101

Date: Oct 10, 1998 12:05 AM

 

Ghislaine Fontanneau wrote:

> I am Ghislaine Marie Fontanneau, lately of Ansteorra and recently of the

> Outlands.  I've been learning a bit about herbalism mundanely, and now

> I'm itching to find period applications for what I've learned.  Can

> ya'll recommend some good sources for herbalism pre-17th c.?   I want to

> learn the herbalism that my persona would have known.

> Ghia

 

We made a pretty good list of authentic sources some time ago: did

anyone keep it?  and, do we have a summary of on-line references?

 

Ghia, here's my overview of the situation (others please fix my

overstatements!)

 

Almost all of the period sources of Italian/French/German/English

tradition are retellings of the Dioscorides' _De Materia Medica_, Latin,

64 AD, out of print or available only in very expensive editions.  But

that is what most period medical people used, in some form.

 

Culpeper's writings and Gerard's (both very end of Period) are

accessible--in print in various versions, some not too expensive.  They

represent additions from the views of earlier times, but are essentially

period sources.

 

Macer "On the virtues of herbs" has a 1970's translation that I

believe is still in print and available (D.P. O'Hanlon translation,

"Macer's on the virtues of herbs" Hemkunt Press, New Delhi, available

through various New Age sources).  This was a poem about 1200.  The

information is largely from Dioscorides.

 

They used classical sources -- Galen, Pliny, Plato, Aristotle, Strabo

-- tho at least some of them were not widely available until late period

and so unknown although technically extant.

 

A different tradition comes out of the Moslem healers: they maintain

some of the classical sources better than the western Europeans, and are

more experimental.  About 1000AD the mainline European tradition starts

to pick up Arab ideas --  the Tacunium Sanitatis is in print in at least

one form and represents the presentation of an Arab healing manual in

France and Italy.  (Somebody said a Georges Brazillier (that's the

publisher) edition is available through Amazon.com)

 

Jewish medicine is quite separate, I think.

 

Dioscorides is southern European (Mediterranean) and the northern

Europeans had different plants available but in Period, the science

didn't understand regional differences in plants as far as I can tell.

There's almost certainly a separate tradition from the local people of

northern Europe but most of that was lost as Christianity took over.

For AngloSaxon herbals: many years ago Cockayne made a translation of

everything he could find, which is not in print in any widely accessible

form. That is a very weird mix of rewritings of Dioscorides, nonsense

(charms in pseudoLatin), and maybe some uniquely northern herbalism.

 

Culpeper in some editions has a section at the back on methods, the

best genuine how-to I know of.

 

Agnes

 

 

From: John Simutis <simutis  at verio.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Renaissance chompie toys

Date: 22 May 1998 18:43:33 GMT

Organization: Verio Northern California's Usenet News Service

 

David Dendy <ddendy  at silk.net> wrote:

: Just to toss in another item of trivia that has risen to the surface of my

: memory. Whole orris root used to be used, and was known as "teething root".

: Sorry, I can't remember where I read this; you'll just have to dig.

 

Couldn't find orris in it, but ran across

 

http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/culpeper/culpeper.htm

 

"Culpeper, Nicholas, 1616-1654.

The English physitian: or an astrologo-physical discourse of the vulgar

herbs of this nation.

London : Peter Cole, 1652.

8 p.l., 255 p. (i.e. 159 p.), [5] p., front. (port.)

Pages numbered 1-92, 189-255.

Harvey Cushing's copy.

 

This electronic version was prepared by Richard Siderits, M.D., and

colleagues by keying from the copy at the Historical Library,

Cushing/Whitney Medical Library, Yale University. Adaptation to HTML by

Toby Appel."

--

John Simutis                                    simutis  at ccnet.com

 

 

[Submitted by: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip  at bright.net>]

From: khkeeler <kkeeler  at unlinfo.unl.edu>

To: herbalist  at Ansteorra.ORG

Subject: Re: HERB - Begining Herbalism 101

Date: 19 Oct 1998 12:05 AM

 

Ghislaine Fontanneau wrote:

>I've been lurking around, and now I'm ready to come out and show myself.

> I am Ghislaine Marie Fontanneau, lately of Ansteorra and recently of the

> Outlands.  I've been learning a bit about herbalism mundanely, and now

> I'm itching to find period applications for what I've learned.  Can

> ya'll recommend some good sources for herbalism pre-17th c.?   I want to

> learn the herbalism that my persona would have known.

> Ghia

 

We made a pretty good list of authentic sources some time agodid

anyone keep it?  and, do we have a summary of on-line references?

 

Ghia, here's my overview of the situation (others please fix my

overstatements!)

 

Almost all of the period sources of Italian/French/German/English

tradition are retellings of the Dioscorides' _De Materia Medica_, Latin,

64 AD, out of print or available only in very expensive editions.  But

that is what most period medical people used, in some form.

 

   Culpeper's writings and Gerard's (both very end of Period) are

accessible--in print in various versions, some not too expensive.  They

represent additions from the views of earlier times, but are essentially

period sources.

 

   Macer "On the virtues of herbs" has a 1970's translation that I

believe is still in print and available (D.P. O'Hanlon translation,

"Macer's on the virtues of herbs" Hemkunt Press, New Delhi, available

through various New Age sources).  This was a poem about 1200.  The

information is largely from Dioscorides.

 

   They used classical sources -- Galen, Pliny, Plato, Aristotle, Strabo

-- tho at least some of them were not widely available until late period

and so unknown although technically extant.

 

   A different tradition comes out of the Moslem healers: they maintain

some of the classical sources better than the western Europeans, and are

more experimental.  About 1000AD the mainline European tradition starts

to pick up Arab ideas --  the Tacunium Sanitatis is in print in at least

one form and represents the presentation of an Arab healing manual in

France and Italy.  (Somebody said a Georges Brazillier (that's the

publisher) edition is available through Amazon.com)

 

Jewish medicine is quite separate, I think.

 

Dioscorides is southern European (Mediterranean) and the northern

Europeans had different plants available but in Period, the science

didn't understand regional differences in plants as far as I can tell.

There's almost certainly a separate tradition from the local people of

northern Europe but most of that was lost as Christianity took over.

For AngloSaxon herbals: many years ago Cockayne made a translation of

everything he could find, which is not in print in any widely accessible

form. That is a very weird mix of rewritings of Dioscorides, nonsense

(charms in pseudoLatin), and maybe some uniquely northern herbalism.

 

Culpeper in some editions has a section at the back on methods, the best

genuine how-to I know of.

 

Cheers

Agnes

kkeeler1 at unl.edu

 

 

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:40:12 EST

From: WOLFMOMSCA  at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Nerve Bisquits???

 

In a message dated 99-01-26 10:08:24 EST, Anne-Marie wrote:

<< our very own Leticia Troischiens does these "hildies nerve cookies" to

great reviews. She also admits she knows of no primary source documentatio

for them (and she's looked a lot). >>

 

They may be from _Hildegard von Bingen's Physica_.  Newly translated into

English for the first time, available from Healing Arts Press, 1 Park St,

Rochester, VT 05767, at a cost of $25.00.  Reviewed in the Feb/Mar Herb

Companion magazine.  They had this to say:

 

"The text reveals nine systems of healing, each based on categories of natural

creation: Plants, Elements, Trees, Stones, Fish, Birds, Animals, Reptiles, and

Metals. Describing the attributes of each in terms of hot, cold, moist and

dry. Hildegard describes how to prepare and apply many different remedies,

what herbs and other materials to ignore, and what substances--dragon's

blood, for instance--are downright poisonous."

 

Wolfmom

 

 

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:15:12 -0600

From: Kathleen Keeler <kkeeler  at unlinfo.unl.edu>

To: sca-arts  at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Gerard's Herbal

 

Jenne Heise wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, rmhowe wrote:

> > Ingvild wrote:

> > > Gerard, John.  "The Herbal."  New York:  Dover, 1975.  (THE 17th century

> > > herbal, again in black-and-white.  Still available from Dover, I believe, but

> > > rather pricey.  You may want to get it through inter-library loan first.)

> > Seen it recently in hardback in the Bargain books section of a

> > Barnes and Noble for less than $10.

> *blink* are you sure? This is the 11x14, 4 inch thick version? Green

> binding? $80 from Barnes & Noble .com?

> I know there is a [Leaves from] Gerard's Herbal out there, which might

> well be remaindered.

> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental; HERMS Cyclonus), mka Jennifer Heise

 

I own two editions of Gerard's herbal . The unabridged (cost about $100), and a

condensed version that has lots of detail removed.  Like grasse:  there are no

grasses described in my short form.  I was given the latter a while ago, I think

it was printed in the '60's or before, and so there may be more modern printings

of shortened forms.  Its not tiny: maybe 300 pages, but very much less than the

unabridged. This edition does not say clearly that it is not complete.

Perhaps Gerard in his lifetime issued some shorter tomes.

 

Agnes

 

 

Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 06:01:15 -0800 (PST)

From: darkwater <darkwater9  at yahoo.com>

To: SCA Arts Listserve <SCA-ARTS  at UKANS.EDU>

Subject: Gerard's 1633 Herbal

 

I have a copy of Gerard's Herbal.  Mine is a complete reproduction of

the original down to size (~3 feet by 2 feet by 6 inches) to the

beautiful woodcuts, old english language and typeface, and the

misnumbered pages.  The cover is green and white, the publisher is

Dover, the price tag was around $110 and I ordered it through the

local bookstore.

 

If you wish anymore information or details, email me privately at

darkwater9 at yahoo.com

 

Douglas

Elvegast, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia

 

 

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:36:35 -0500

From: renfrow  at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: SC - Gerard's Herball

 

Hello! I've finally finished my page of culinary gleanings from Gerard's

Herball. Please visit.  There are a lot of recipes & interesting tidbits

of information.

 

The page can be found at: http://members.aol.com/renfrowcm/gerardp1.html

(Note: this is a new url.)

 

Cindy Renfrow

renfrow at skylands.net

 

 

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:04:43 -0500

From: "Richard Kappler II" <rkappler  at home.com>

Subject: SC - Index to Gerard's herbal

 

Having obtained her permission to do so, I would like to commend Lady

Temair, who is lurking amongst us, for a most magnificent piece of work.

Many of us use Gerards Herbal in our research of period cooking as well as

other 'crafts' we pursue within the Society.  It is a cumbersome volume

though and I for one have found it difficult to use.  Lady Temair has

compiled an index, a pair of them actually, that lists the contents of this

book both alphabetically and in ascending page number.  I have found this

extremely helpful in my research and now refer to Gerards on an almost daily

basis as opposed to a reference of last, sometimes painful, resort (due only

to my own laziness ;-).

 

Thanks to Lord Eadric, this fine work is available on the web at:

http://users.ev1.net/~uisge/sca_brew/gerards.htm

 

VIVATS! and thank you Tara!

 

regards, Puck

 

 

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:51:00 -0500

From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings  at mindspring.com>

Subject: SC - Re Gerard's Herbal

 

>>>>>From: Richard Keith <keith.78  at osu.edu>

Just got a copy of Gerald's herbal.  Now I must get a permanent copy for

myself.<<<<

 

Did you get the full bells and whistles Dover edition (10 pounds or so

& $100) or just the little Dover abridged version?

 

>>>>Question: Are the Latin names he has given correct.  IE, could I start

looking for modern plants my the family name?Subject: SC - Gerald's

Herbal<<<<

 

No, they are not at all accurate, or at least dependably accurate

in a consistant manner.  Even contemporary taxonomy is still reclassifying

and renaming species and reassigning families.  Any modern plant

book over 10 years old is partially obsolete.  The old Herbals bounce

bad Latin and Greek all over the place and it is difficult sometimes to

figure out what plant they are naming.  The illustrations are often the

only way to guess what they are talking about as they often are

describing non-existant amd imaginary species based on legend and

rumour.

 

>>>>Has anyone ever gone through and listed his multi lingual references to

things? Looks like a good project if it has not been done.  Or looked up

what modern equivalents are.<<<<

 

I doubt that anyone has done so, as Gerard's command of other

languages was about as good as his Latin and Greek.  In other words,

rather poor.  If anyone has the credentials to do multiple translation

from 8-10 period languages and dialects (with a lot of misspelled or

inaccurate words in Gerard)  into their modern idioms and then, from

there into modern English, I admire their intellectual capacity.

It is certainly beyond me.  One must remember that Gerard

plagurized the bulk of the work in The Herbal from translations

of another work by another person.  His scholastic credentials

are about as good as a modern person running a commercial

nursery and landscaping operation today.   Approach Gerard

with caution as he introjects a great deal of popular hearsay into

his work.  You probably need a fair amount of modern botanical

study to select the accurate from the false in The Herbal.

This is especially an essential credential for anyone trying

multi-lingual documentations from this source.  A working

knowledge ofmodern botony would be essential to making the

outcome of the final analysis be of value.

 

Akim Yaroslavich

 

 

Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:47:53 EDT

From: Acanthusbk  at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Re Gerard's Herbal

 

The Dover facsimile of Gerard's Herbal is not out of print, nor is it close

to going out of print. Dover has a huge stockpile of these in inventory. See

http://www.acanthus-books.com/herorgenhiso.html

 

It's pretty horrifying to hear that Dover is referring customers to Amazon.

FYI, to those of you who buy books online, do yourself a favor and see

 

http://www.addall.com

 

and

 

http://www.bookfinder.com

 

two search engines for online book shopping price comparisons. Jeff Bezos has

fooled consumers into thinking Amazon.com has everything available, at the

best price. Wrong on both counts. And speaking of scams, don't get me started

on Alibris.

 

Amanda

Acanthus Books

(A proud member of IOBA, the Independent Online Booksellers Association

<http://www.ioba.org>)

 

Also see <http://www.noamazon.com>

and <http://nowebpatents.com>

 

 

Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 17:05:48 -0400

From: "Gaylin Walli" <gwalli  at infoengine.com>

Subject: SC - Re: Gerard's Herbal

 

Lord Akim asked Lord Frederich:

>Did you get the full bells and whistles Dover edition (10 pounds or so

>& $100) or just the little Dover abridged version?

 

I think the bells and whistles edition weighs more than 10 pounds.

I know for a fact that a misbalanced copy can adequately flatten an

overweight cat when dropped from the height of a standard queen

sized mattress and boxspring. :)

 

Incidently, my copy only cost 60 dollars US including shipping

from Barnes and Noble online. Regrettably, not available at

their website at this time. However, copies do appear in a

quick search of the www.bookfinder.com site.

 

Frederich asked and Akim responded:

> >>>>Question:  Are the Latin names he has given correct.  IE, could I start

>looking for modern plants my the family name?Subject: SC - Gerald's

>Herbal<<<<

>No, they are not at all accurate, or at least dependably accurate

>in a consistant manner.  Even contemporary taxonomy is still reclassifying

>and renaming species and reassigning families.  Any modern plant

>book over 10 years old is partially obsolete.

 

Keep in mind that the taxonomic difficulties may not have

been the problem of Gerard. The edition most commonly

used and quoted from and printed or abridged today is not

the edition written by Gerard. It is typically the 1636

edition of Thomas Johnson's expansion and edited version

of Gerard. A very large difference indeed. And the weighty

tome mentioned above does have some elaborate methods

of indicating exactly which pieces are original Gerard and

which pieces are those of Johnson's change or addition.

 

However, that having been said, I think all hope is not lost.

Take a copy of Gerard, a copy of Maude Grieve's Herbal

(out of period, but much closer to mundania) and a good

herbal written within the last 7 years and you're on your

way to a first draft taxonomic map. I would peronally add

Culpepper to that list between Gerard and Grieve just for

an added point of reference. (Note I'm only listing easily

accessible documents...)

 

Akim went on to say:

>The illustrations are often the

>only way to guess what they are talking about as they often are

>describing non-existant amd imaginary species based on legend and

>rumour.

 

I don't personally think Johnson's edition of Gerard is quite that

bad. Older herbals, yes.

 

Frederich further asked and Akim responded:

> >>>>Has anyone ever gone through and listed his multi lingual references to

>things? Looks like a good project if it has not been done.  Or looked up

>what modern equivalents are.<<<<

>I doubt that anyone has done so,

 

If you mean has anyone taken just that bit of the document out

and set it down with modern taxonimic classifications, then I

can give you a resounding "no" unless someone has managed

to sneak it by me. This statement of course puts me on

dangerous grounds, but I have been actively searching for it

for 15 years. It could have slipped by, but I've not seen it.

SO if anyone has seen it, I BEG YOU to allow me a peek at it.

*grin*

 

Akim stated:

>One must remember that Gerard

>plagurized the bulk of the work in The Herbal from translations

>of another work by another person.

 

More than one person (cf. the Agnus Castus manuscript and

its English translation from the University of Uppsula, as

well as the admittedly out of date work done by Agnes Arber

tracing early printed manuscript stemma and their sources).

 

Iasmin "Who Pushed My Verbose Button?" de Cordoba

gwalli at infoengine.com

 

 

Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:55:31 -0500

From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings  at mindspring.com>

Subject: SC - RE: Gerard's Herbal

 

Frederich comments:

>>>>However, that having been said, I think all hope is not lost.

Take a copy of Gerard, a copy of Maude Grieve's Herbal

(out of period, but much closer to mundania) and a good

herbal written within the last 7 years and you're on your

way to a first draft taxonomic map. I would peronally add

Culpepper to that list between Gerard and Grieve just for

an added point of reference. (Note I'm only listing easily

accessible documents...)<<<<<

 

Culpepper. Hmmmm.....    I think the best way to utilize

Culpepper is to take it one or two two pages a day and

put it to use.  My only complaint with my copies is they

do not come in perforated rolls and the pages are not quite

soft enough.   Seriously,  Culpepper is not a good source

for any kind of serious study of botanical taxonomy.  The

editor of the NATIONAL ENQUIRER couldn't write a

more wacky, mumbo-jumbo herbal.

 

Akim Yaroslavich

 

 

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:14:14 -0400

From: "Gaylin Walli" <gwalli  at infoengine.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Gerard's Herbal

 

Akim wrote:

>Seriously, Culpepper is not a good source

>for any kind of serious study of botanical taxonomy.  The

>editor of the NATIONAL ENQUIRER couldn't write a

>more wacky, mumbo-jumbo herbal.

 

The vast majority of the information, however is quite

in line with the information available at the time. Culpepper

was a noted plagerist (by our standards) of the first

order. The part of his writings that most people object

to are the astrological comments. That may well be

the source of your "wacky, mumbo-jumbo" opinion.

 

But in terms of botanical taxonomy, for the

recreationist cook or otherwise, his work serves as

a very adequate bridge between time periods. The

accuracy or validity of his information isn't what is

at issue. The information he presents *does* give

someone a perfectly acceptable view of what they

called things during his time. Culpepper is much

maligned, and I think it's not justified.

 

For those of you interested in looking at Culpepper,

you can find two versions of it webbed. The first

is from Bibliomania and is the inferior of the two

(in that it isn't as nicely webbed):

http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Culpeper/Herbal/

 

The second is from the Yale Medical Library:

http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Culpeper/Herbal/ (sic)

 

Many cooks on the list might find these links useful.

 

Jasmine

Iasmin de Cordoba, gwalli  at infoengine.com

 

 

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:16:55 +0200

From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy  at thousandeggs.com>

Subject: SC - Gerard

 

> >>>>Has anyone ever gone through and listed his multi lingual references to

>things? Looks like a good project if it has not been done.  Or looked up

>what modern equivalents are.<<<<

 

Not that I know of.

 

I've made a list of his culinary references & posted that here:

http://members.aol.com/renfrowcm/gerardp1.html

 

I have the Dover edition, btw.  I got it from Dover several years ago.

There is another, better, edition:

Gerard, John.  The Herball or Generall Historie of Plants.  London, 1597.

Rpt. Walter J. Johnson, Inc.  Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, Ltd.  Keizersgracht

526, Amsterdam, 1974.   This is a very large 2-volume set, & I wish I owned

it. I borrowed it through ILL.

 

The Dover edition has been reduced, so that the Greek characters of the

plant names are for the most part illegible. The modern introduction lists

the texts from which Gerard 'borrowed'.

 

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

cindy at thousandeggs.com

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:05:23 +1000

From: "Drake & Meliora" <meliora  at macquarie.matra.com.au>

Subject: SC - New Book: Aztec Herbal (1552) translation

 

The following just came over the Amazon alert this morning.  Does anyone

know anything about this?

 

An Aztec Herbal : The Classic Codex of 1552

by William Gates  (Translator), Martin De LA Cruz

Publication date: June 2000

Publisher: Dover Pubns

Binding:Paperback

Subjects: Aztecs; Ethnobotany; Materia medica

 

Meliora

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:45:27 -0500

From: Acanthus Books <acanthusbk  at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: SC - New Book: Aztec Herbal (1552) translation

 

This is a 1939 translation of the 16th c. manuscript Libellus de

medicinalibus Indorum herbis that was "discovered" in the Vatican Library

in the 1930's. Multiple copies of this and an associated article published

in 1935 by the Smithsonian can be seen offered for sale online at

www.bookfinder.com, although most appear to have languished there because

they are overpriced. A couple with somewhat detailed descriptions:

 

Gates, William The De La Cruz-Badiano Aztec Herbal of 1552. Baltimore: ,

1939 The Maya Society Pub. No.23. XXI/144pp. Numerous illus. of plants and

the medical use by the Aztecs. Gates has translated the Aztec into English.

[note from Amanda - this is incorrect, Gates translated the LATIN into

English]. Contains the full text and all of the plants as contained in the

original manuscript: Codex Barbarini, Latin 241. Note: The Gates

translation differs in some degree from "Thre Badianus Manuscript

translated by Emily Walcott Emmart in 1940. Book # 000193 Price: US$ 250.00

Homepage of Bob Fein Books, NM, U.S.A.

 

Author is Emmart, Emily Walcott

Title is The Badianus Manuscript. (Codex Barberini, Latin 241), Vatican

Library. An Aztec Herbal of 1552. With a foreword by Henry E. Sigerist.

 

EMMART, Emily Walcott. : Concerning the Badianus Manuscript, an Aztec

Herbal, 'Codex Barberini, Latin 241' (Vatical Library). ; Washington, D.C.,

Smithsonian Institution, May 18 1935. 8vo. (4) + 14pp. With 4 plates

(facsimiles of the MS., one in colour). Publisher's printed wrappers. A

scholarly article on this first American herbal, recently discovered, and

the 'only one written by the Aztecs themselves'. It was composed in 1552 in

the 'College of Santa Cruz at Tlaltelolco, Mexico City ... the first

college erected for Indians', and is attriibuted to Martin de la Cruz whose

name appears in the dedication; he wrote out the work in Aztec, and it was

then translated into Latin by Juannes Badianus, also a student at the

College. Well preserved, inoffenseive stamp on cover. Smithsonian

Miscellaneous Collections, vol 94, no 2. GBP35.00 View the Hunersdorff Rare

Books Home Page at www.bibliofind.com

 

Amanda

Acanthus Books

http://www.acanthus-books.com

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:18:36 +0200

From: Thomas Gloning <gloning  at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - Online herbal in progress: Tabernaemontanus 1625

 

There are several German herbals of the 16th century, and they are

helpful for many questions (What kinds of apples were there?, ...). One

of the later herbals was written by Jacob Tabernaemontanus. The first

edition was published around 1590, after T.'s death. Later on Caspar

Bauhin took care of the book, and his edition of 1625 is available

online (a work in progress; according to the title page, the work

describes 3000 plants).

 

   http://www.kraeuter.ch

 

Thomas

 

 

To: sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gerard's Herball

From: "Christina L Biles" <bilescl  at okstate.edu>

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:54:35 -0600

 

The URL for Early English Books Online is

http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/

 

Unfortunately, you have to be a member institution for full access to the

project.  Gerard is free and is found at:

 

http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/query?qName=top100_Botany

 

It is wonderful.  ;>

 

-Magdalena

 

 

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:54:40 -0500

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gerard's Herball

From: Rosalyn MacGregor <rosalyn  at hotpop.com>

To: <sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org>

 

I wrote:

>> You do know, right, that a facsimile is available online as part of the

>> Early English Books Online project? You can print out a single page, or

>> the whole bloody thing, if you wish.

>> 

>> Rosalyn MacGregor

> Do you have the URL for that? Please.

> Olwen

 

The URL is http://wwwlib.umi.com/eebo/featured

 

You'll find Gerard's Herbal under the Botany link.

 

Rosalyn MacGregor

(Pattie Rayl)

 

 

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:35:02 -0500

To: sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org

From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy  at thousandeggs.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gerard's Herball

 

I have a copy of the Dover edition of Gerard's Herbal:

Gerard, John.  The Herball or Generall Hi=86torie of Plants.  London, 1633.

Thomas Johnson, ed.  Rpt. Dover Publications, Inc.  1975.

This is the complete 1633 edition as edited by Thomas Johnson. IIRC Johnson

added over 700 more plants to the book. The only problem I have with this

Dover edition is that it is slightly reduced in size from the original,

making the Greek characters illegible.

 

The Woodward edition is hopelessly incomplete, and a waste of money.

Woodward, Marcus.  Gerard's Herball, The Essence thereof Distilled by

Marcus Woodward from the Edition of Th. Johnson, 1636.  Crescent Books.

New York, 1985.

 

Gerard, John.  The Herball or Generall Hi=86torie of Plants.  London, 1597.

Rpt. Walter J. Johnson, Inc.  Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, Ltd.  Keizersgracht

526, Amsterdam, 1974.  An enormous work, literally. It is in 2 volumes  &

far superior to the Woodward edition.  Priced at over $200.

 

Cindy

 

 

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:01:15 -0500

From: johnna holloway <johnna  at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org, jemoore  at firstam.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ram's Little Dodoen

 

This is part of the Early English Short Title

Catalogue record:

Author: Dodoens, Rembert, 1517-1585.

Title: [Cruydenboeck. English. Abridgments]

Rams little Dodeon [sic] A briefe epitome of the new

herbal, or histoy of plants. snipped

Collected out of the most exquisite newe herball,

or history of plants, first set forth in the Dutch

or Almayne tongue, by ... D. Reinbert Dodeon, ...

and lately translated into English by Henry Lyte, ...

and now collected and abbridged by William Ram, Gent.

Pandit oliua suos Ramos.

Published: Imprinted at London : By Simon Stafford,

dwelling in the Cloth Fayre, at the signe of the

three Crownes, 1606.

Physical Details: [43], 213 p. ; 4=B0.

 

The Cambridge University copy was microfilmed as:

STC (2nd ed.) 6988.

Microfilm. Ann Arbor, Mich.:

University Microfilms International, 1978.

1 microfilm reel: 35 mm (Early English books, 1475-1640; 1481:07).

 

That means it should be up on EEBO online if

you have access to that. However, EEBO is down for

maintenance so I can't verify at the moment that it

is there. Or you could use the microfilm.

 

Johnna Holloway  Johnnae llyn Lewis

 

 

Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:09:28 -0400

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] reading list

From: Barbara Evans <mathilde  at borg.com>

To: <sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org>

 

I bought an interesting little book at Midrealm Coronation last weekend.

 

It is called "Nature Illuminated: Flora and fauna from the court of the

Emperor Rudolf II." Authors are Lee Hendrix and Thea Vignau-Wilberg;

published by the J. Paul Getty Museum, Los Angeles, 1997; ISBN#

0-89236-472-6.

 

Cost was $15.00 and well worth it for the beautiful color plates showing

fruits, nuts, flowers, small animals, insects, herbs, snails, caterpillars,

(and even a tomato!), all done in the late 1590's. The artist, Joris

Hoefnagel (1542-?1601) was commissioned by Emperor Rudolf II to illustrate a

work called The Model Book of Calligraphy, which had been created in

1561-1562 by master calligrapher Georg Bocskay for the Emperor's

grandfather, Emperor Ferdinand I.

 

Bocskay left lots of space on the pages of ornamental calligraphy samples,

and Hoefnagel filled the spaces with realistic and detailed illuminations

from the natural world. Forty-one of the 128 folios are reproduced in this

little book, with a key to the fruits, nuts, flowers, insects, etc. in each

one.

 

Of course, a picture of a tomato done in period does not count as evidence

that anyone at the court of Rudolf II was actually *eating* tomatoes at that

time, but it certainly is interesting. I wonder if there are any other

vegetables shown in the plates which were not reproduced here. Anyone have

access to the J. Paul Getty Museum in LA? Perhaps asking to see the original

might be....illuminating?

 

Mathilde

 

 

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker  at worldnet.att.net>

To: <sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] reading list

Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:25:31 -0500

 

>I bought an interesting little book at Midrealm Coronation last weekend.

>It is called "Nature Illuminated: Flora and fauna from the court of the

>Emperor Rudolf II." Authors are Lee Hendrix and Thea Vignau-Wilberg;

>published by the J. Paul Getty Museum, Los Angeles, 1997; ISBN#

>0-89236-472-6.

<clipped>>

>Mathilde

 

Carolus Clusius was the director of the Botanical Gardens in Vienna for

Maximilian II, Rudolf's father, and held that position for a while during

Rudolf's reign.  Some of the illustrations may be of plants Clusius added to

the collection.  Any tulips in the illustrations?

 

Bear

 

 

From: jenne  at fiedlerfamily.net

Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:58:21 -0400 (EDT)

To: <sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Herbals

 

> >That isn't actually what I asked, BTW. There are some good works on the

> >history of herbals (one I can cite offhand is Rohde's _Early English

> >Herbals_) and of course there are three or four more scholarly ones.

> Ooops.  you are right; I did misread the question.  I have Rohde and

> rely a good deal on its excellent bibliographies.

 

There's a new one just out recently, too: _An Illustrated History of the

Herbals_ by Frank Anderson, goodness knows if it's any good, and there's

the old standard _Herbals : their origin and evolution : a chapter in the

history of botany, 1470-1670_ by Agnes Arber which I'm ashamed to say I've

only skimmed.

 

Akim, would you be interested in writing up a short rant on Culpeper for

my kingdom herbalist guild newsletter? I'm trying to wean people off Mrs.

Grieve and Culpeper but when you do most of your emailing from work and

your books are at home, you get sloppy and use what's on the web.

 

(And have you read _Charleston Kedding: A History of Kitchen Gardening_? I

found it fascinating -- just finished reading it all the way through-- but

would be interested to know what a professional thought of it.

 

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:38:27 -0400

From: johnna holloway <johnna  at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Herbals

 

Anderson is good, but it's not new. My hardback says

Columbia University Press, 1977. This must be a reprint.

He surveys 32 works.

And yes Charleston Kedding is very nice and very readable.

Another to take a look at is The Country House Kitchen Gardens,

1600-1950, edited by C. Anne Wilson. It compliments

the Charleston Kedding volume very well.

 

Johnna Holloway  Johnnae llyn Lewis

 

jenne at fiedlerfamily.net wrote:

>snipped--->

> There's a new one just out recently, too: _An Illustrated History of the

> Herbals_ by Frank Anderson, goodness knows if it's any good, and there's

> the old standard _Herbals : their origin and evolution : a chapter in the

> history of botany, 1470-1670_ by Agnes Arber which I'm ashamed to say I've

> only skimmed.

snipped (And have you read _Charleston Kedding: A History of Kitchen

Gardening_? I

> found it fascinating -- just finished reading it all the way through-- but

> would be interested to know what a professional thought of it.>

> -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

 

 

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker  at worldnet.att.net>

To: <sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org>

Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:21:25 -0500

Subject: [Sca-cooks] An interesting Herbal

 

While on vacation, I bought a used copy of Joesph Wood Krutch's Herbal,

primarily because Krutch is an entertaining and informative author and the

book was illustrated with old style woodcuts.  It is a 1976 reprint of a

1965 issue.

 

Reading it has been a surprise and a pleasure.  The illustrations (106 of

them) are taken from Mattioli's Commentaries on the Six Books of Dioscorides

(the Prague edition of 1563 and the Venice edition of 1565).  Krutch's

comments reference period texts and he provides a brief but annotated

bibliography.

 

Bibliographic info is:

 

Krutch, Joesph Wood, Herbal; David R. Godine, Boston, 1976.

 

ISBN 0-87923-171-8 hardbound

        0-87923-165-3 softcover

 

LCC   65-20676

 

Bear

 

 

Subject: Re: websites with herb/'squashed bug' illumination?

From: "Patricia Collum" <pjc2  at cox.net>

To: "SCA-ARTS  at listsvr.pca.net" <sca-arts  at listsvr.pca.net>

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:42:49 -0700

 

> Hi! I just got an email from someone outside the SCA looking for

> illustrations of herbs as medicine for a poster he is doing. I've sent him

> some book titles, but can anyone recommend some websites that specifically

> have illumination of herbs, especially done in the 'squashed bug' style?

> --

> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne  at mail.browser.net

 

Here's a cool herbal:

http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/wmss/medieval/mss/ashmole/1431.htm

 

Cecily

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:33:35 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Herb Books

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

While it probably won't help you with this, Thomas Gloning has transcripts

of a number of period herbals on his web site.

http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/ch/ch.htm

 

Bear

 

> I've been reading a great herb book which has some detailed info on the

> particular herbs.  I'd like to learn about more different herbs though and

> more specifics on using them.  Does anyone have recommendations?  I am

> interested in cooking uses, medical uses, and other useful functions such

> as making dyes.

> Sharon

 

 

Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 21:22:40 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fuchs again

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Fuchs's Latin herbal (Historia stirpium, 1542) is here:

http://koblenz.de/stb/fuchscd/

 

E.

 

 

Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 22:07:05 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] One more digital Fuchs

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

There is another version of Fuchs's 1543 German herbal online. It is  

reproduced from a copy which probably belonged to Fuchs's personal  

library.

 

http://w210.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/dbt/volltexte/2001/237/

 

Emilio

 

 

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 16:25:46 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] squashes/pumpkins Fuchs

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

>> The first reference I have to publication lists 1541, but the 1542  

>> and 1543 editions seem to be more common.

> I have never heard of a 1541 edition, and there is no such edition in the

> "Published works of Leonhart Fuchs" mentioned in Appendix 7 of the Stanford

> edition of the Latin herbal 1542.

> Do you know, where a 1541 copy might be extant?

> Emilio

 

I haven't encountered one.  It is possible that the reference I first found

contained a typographical error.  However, Smith, Betran and Runge give a

1541 date for the second illustration of corn in Fuchs' Herbal in Corn:

Origin, History, Technology and Production.  Charlotte Porter in "The

Scientific Cosmos of Columbus: An Overview" also gives the date of

publication as 1541.  And there are some other sources I have encountered

over the years with the 1541 date.  So, if the 1541 date is an error,  

it is an error that has propagated.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:45:19 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] names for newly discovered plants

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> Okay, I remember the maize (Indian corn) and Turkey, which is more

> obvious, but what was the phrasing or whatever that related capsicum

> peppers to India? Just the "pepper" portion of the name? Was it

> thought that all of the peppers, black, white, long came from India?

> Or was "India" simply being used as a synonym for that area to the  

> East?

 

Capsicon rubeum & nigrum   Roter und brauner Calcutische Pfeffer

Capsicum oblongius              Langer Indianischer Pfeffer

Capsicum latum                    Breyter Indianischer Pfeffer

 

Turcicum frumentum              Turkische Korn

 

Fuchs ties maize to Turkey and the capsicums to India.  In the case of

maize, it's likely that the grain had entered Central Europe from Turkey, so

the naming is obvious.  How he tied the Capsicums to India, I have no idea,

other than there was still some confusion about the difference between India

and the West Indies, although Balboa had determined that the Americas were

not part of Asia when he crossed  the Isthumus of Panama in 1513 and any

lingering doubts were ended when Magellan passed through the Straits of

Magellan and entered the Pacific in 1521.

 

Since Piper nigrum and Piper longnum appear to be missing from the Herbal, I

wonder if Fuchs may not have been confused by the differences between the

Pipers and the Capsicums.

 

Mattioli (1544) says about peppers, "We put among the Peppers this kind

which we call Indian Pepper because its taste is very biting and sharp.  We

also still call the Capsicums 'Pepper'."  Since I only have excerpts from

Mattioli, I can't chase his views on Piper and Capsicum, but apparently

there was a quaestion about how to classify the Capsicums.

 

> We sometimes laugh at this use of "India" this and that, including

> the use of the name for the inhabitants of the Americas, but what

> would a better alternative have been for them? If you had come across

> the capsicum pepper(s), what would *you* have called them>?

 

I believe Columbus refers to them as "aji" and pimento, but I don't  

have my copy of the Diario handy.

 

> Who knows, we may be faced with this again. Say in 500 years we are

> landing on the planets of another star system and come across native

> vegetation there. How would we name it, except in terms or variations

> of terms that we already know? Perhaps if it was rather hazardous or

> seemed to be particularly useless, we might name it after a disliked

> politician, but that is still naming it after something we know.

> Stefan

 

Common names might be a little problematic, but I suspect that any

xenobiologist would apply standard analysis and taxonomy as biologists have

done since Linnaeus set forth the basic system in Philosophia Botanica

(1750).

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:22:38 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] squashes/pumpkins Fuchs

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

There's a *Herbarum vivae eicones ad naturae imitationem  1532-1540 that

Fuchs is listed as having worked on. There are 3 copies listed by  

Worldcat.

 

> A number of medical books from the 1530's also list him. The

> cataloguing for the 1543 Herbal lists it as a second edition

> with this note: *Pritzel (2nd ed.); 3139.*

> Anderson in An Illustrated History of the Herbal lists the 1542 as the

> earliest.

 

I checked and the 2001 Taschen edition

of The New Herbal of 1543 lists 1542 as the earliest.

Certainly a book of 900 plus pages and 511 woodcuts would have been in

production for quite some time, but I suspect

as Bear does that someone made an error in a source past times and it's

been repeated in a number of sources since.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:22:32 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fuchs and Brunfels

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

> There's a *Herbarum vivae eicones ad naturae imitationem  1532-1540

 

As far as I can see, the author is Otto Brunfels. According to my

sources it was published 1532-1536 in three parts:

 

http://num-scd-ulp.u-strasbg.fr:8080/view/authors/Brunfels,_Otto.html

 

http://imgbase-scd-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/displayimage.php?album=174&;pos=3

 

cataloguing for the 1543 Herbal lists it as a second edition

 

Fuchs says that the 1543 edition is for a different target group.

In several places of the 1543 edition

he refers to the Latin edition 1542 for further information.

In the preface of the 1543 edition he says that the German

herbal is adapted to a different readership and that certain parts of  

his Latin herbal are irrelevant for a vernacular audience.

 

Emilio

 

 

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:36:51 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fuchs and Brunfels

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> There's a *Herbarum vivae eicones ad naturae imitationem  1532-1540

emilio szabo wrote:

> As far as I can see, the author is Otto  

> Brunfels. According to my sources it was published 1532-1536 in three parts:

 

The Worldcat cataloguing still lists Fuchs as a contributor for that

work. He's one of perhaps 4 people listed.

And that title turns up in a search under Fuchs which is why I  

mentioned it.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 18:44:04 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hieronymus Bock herbal was elderflower & Currants

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

<<< (side note:  *"Grosselbeer." Stachelbeere (Ribes grossularia). Auf der

 

R?ckseite: "Wegdornbeer." Purgier-Kreuzdorn (Rhamnus cathartica). 2

 

Darstellungen auf 1 Blatt.

*Altkolorierte Holzschnitte auf ganzer Textseite von David Kandel aus

Hieronymus Bock "Kre?ter Buch" 1595. 32x20 cm. Blattgr?sse.

Its sounds like an intersting book within our period - source:

http://www.antiqbook.de/boox/wen/IQ-G26523.shtml) >>>

 

The 1630 edition of the Bock herbal is available in the SCID online collection:

http://imgbase-scd-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/displayimage.php?album=163&;pos=2

 

If I am not mistaken, the first edition was published in the mid 16th century.

 

Does anyone know of one of the earlier editions online?

 

E.

 

 

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:09:53 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Hieronymus Bock herbal was elderflower &

        Currants

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

<<< If I am not mistaken, the first edition was published in the mid 16th

century.

 

Does anyone know of one of the earlier editions online?

 

E. >>>

 

Boch's Kreuter Buch was first published in 1539.  The first edition has no

illustrations. The Latin edition of 1552 is supposed to have the most

illustrations. I haven't found any editions on line, so the one you report

is a first in my view.  I do know that there are some editions in the

Cornelius J. Hauck Botanical Collection at the Cincinnati Museum Center, but

they aren't webbed.

 

The first name has appeared as Jerome (or a variant), Hieronymous, and

Hieronymus. The last name has appeared as Boch, Bock, Bosch, and Bos.

Botanical work was also published under the names Hieronymus Targus and

Hieronymus Herbarius.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:52:43 +0100

From: "Susanne Mayer" <susanne.mayer5 at chello.at>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] zuckerwurtzel Tabernaemontanus

To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

thank you for the link, here is an other one I used sometimes.

http://www.kraeuter.ch/

 

you can even search for names.

 

Katharina

 

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

<<< The herbal of Jacobus Theodorus, called Tabernaemontanus, mentions the

name Zuckerwurtzel. This herbal is from 1588, therefore it is quite close

to Rumpolt.

 

http://imgbase-scd-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/displayimage.php?album=58&;pos=283

 

It is in the section Von den Namen ... in the last line. >>>

 

 

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:52:39 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org,

        foodmanuscriptproject at yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Herbals

 

The Biodiversity Heritage Library offers several old herbals for online reading and download.

 

http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org

 

The easiest way to get to the titles is to chose the option "year". From 1487 onwards, there are herbals by Bock, Brunfels, Clusius, Dodoens, De Lobel, Lyte,  and others.

 

Some of them are pertinent not only to medicine and botanics, but also to culinary history.

 

E.

 

 

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:34:45 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dating John Gerarde

 

Terry Decker wrote:

<<< I've got both a 1633 and a 1636 publication date for that edition, so

perhaps Johnna can help settle that discrepency.

 

Bear>>>>

 

The English Short Title Catalogue  lists editions for 1597, 1633, and 1636.

 

Gerard, John, 1545-1612.     The herball or Generall historie of plantes.

Imprinted at London : by [Edm. Bollifant for [Bonham Norton and] Iohn

Norton, 1597.

 

Gerard, John, 1545-1612.     The herball or Generall historie of

plantes. Gathered by Iohn Gerarde of London.

London : Printed by Adam Islip Ioice Norton and Richard Whitakers, anno

1633.

[There's the 2008 Gerard's Herbal: Selections from the 1633 Enlarged and

Amended Edition.]

 

Gerard, John, 1545-1612.     The herball or Generall historie of plantes.

London : printed by Adam Islip, Joice Norton, and Richard Whitakers,

anno 1636

[A 303 page "distilled by Marcus Woodward from the edition of Th. Johnson, 1636" edition under the title  Gerard's Herball  was published in 1985.]

 

A catalogue of plants cultivated in the garden of John Gerard, in the

years ...

By John Gerard, Benjamin Daydon Jackson(1876 edition) is up in full

text on Google Books.

 

There are a number of editions based on the Herball of course in

addition to those mentioned here.

I have the hardbound Dover which is The Herbal or General History of

Plants (Deluxe Clothbound Edition) (Hardcover)on the shelf.

It's also up on EEBO and EEBO-TCP for those with academic connections.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Johnna

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:39:38 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Women and Herbal Texts

 

Medical Authority and Englishwomen's Herbal Texts, 1550?1650 is a new  

book Ashgate is publishing.

The author is Rebecca Laroche.

http://www.ashgate.com/default.aspx?page=637&;pageSubject=0&calcTitle=1&title_id=9311&edition_id=11741

 

The first chapter is available at the Ashgate site. It's slightly  

discounted if you buy it directly from Ashgate.

 

Johnnae

 

<the end>



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