p-agriculture-msg - 4/4/19

Period agriculture.  References.

NOTE: See also the files: p-agriculture-bib, p-herbals-msg, gardens-msg, gardening-bib, forestry-msg, Palladius-art, roses-art, gardening-bks-bib, grafting-msg, herbs-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:28:22 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: 40-60 acres Land Holding

Please can you advise where the 40 -60 acres per freeman figure came from,
it seems a lot to me, even if you weren't farming all of it.

And do you mean a modern acre or a medieval one which was smaller?

Even with that amount, poventy would be just a crop failure away, I know
what an anxious time hay cutting is for me with modern technology and
machinery, even with the knowledge I won't die if my hay gets ruined!

For much on the Open field farming see Open field farming in Medieval
England by Warren O Ault.

He notes family men scracing for a living on 1 or 2 acres. Another example
of Methley, Yorks 16th C sites 2000 acres mostly arable with 60 tenants
that makes an average of 33 acres (about) per tenant, tennanted NOT owned,
owned by the Lord, so not all the product would be avaliable to the
tenants.

Hemingford Hunts c1255  2000 acres 5 hides in demesne, earl of Oxford 2
hides, 7 free tenants had about 1.5 hides, 56 virgaters held one half,
then 24 crofters each tennanted a few acres.

Making 88 people, even divided equally that is only  22 acres each. and so
the records go on.

FYI Virgater - tenant of a piece of land averaging 30 acres

Mel


Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:49:28 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Cows, chicken, sheep etc-some refs.

Some suggestions for reading for those interested

ZOOARCHAEOLOGY:

Albarella, U. 1997a. Size, power, wool and veal: zooarchaeological 
evidence for late medieval
innovations, in G. De Boe & F. Verhaeghe (ed.), Environment and 
subsistence in medieval Europe:
19-30. Papers of the 'Medieval Europe Brugge 1997' Conference Volume 
9. Brugge: Institute for the
Archaeological Heritage of Flanders.

Albarella, U. and Davis, S. 1996. Mammals and bird bones from 
Launceston Castle: decline in status
and the rise of agriculture. Circaea 12 (1) 1996 for 1994, 1-156 

Crabtree P. 1989. West Stow, Suffolk: Early Anglo-Saxon Animal 
Husbandry. East Anglian
Archaeology 47.

Grant, A. 1988. Animal resources. In Astill G. and Grant A. (eds.). 
The countryside of medieval England, pp. 149-261. Oxford, Blackwell

Maltby, M. 1979. The animal bones from Exeter 1971-1975. Exeter 
Archaeological Reports Vol. 2

Serjeantson, D. 1989. Animal remains and the tanning trade, in 
D.Serjeantson & T.Waldron (ed.),
Diet and crafts in towns: the evidence of animal remains from the 
Roman to the Post-Medieval
periods: 129-146. Oxford: BAR British Series 199.


HISTORY:

Dyer, C. 1989. Standards of living in the later Middle Ages: social 
change in England c.1200-1520.
Cambridge, Cambridge Medieval Textbooks

Hallam, H. (ed.). 1988. The Agrarian History of England and Wales. 
Volume II: 1042-1350.
Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Kerridge, E. 1967. The Agricultural Revolution. London, Allen and Unwin

Langdon, J. 1986. Horses, oxen and technological innovation. 
Cambridge, Cambridge University Press

Miller E. (ed.). The agrarian history of England and Wales. Volume 
III 1348-1500, Cambridge,
Cambridge University Press

Trow-Smith, R. 1957. A history of British livestock husbandry to 
1700. London, Routledge and Kegan Paul

Mel


Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 01:27:33 -0600
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: SC - The horse in medieval agriculture (long)

> stefan at texas.net writes:
> << One of the reasons that the horse took a while to begin
>  to be used in agriculture, even after an appropriate collar was invented
>  was that it required a better food supply than the ox. >>
>
> It appears as if you are taking the basis for your argument back several
> thousands of years. Although such arguments may very well be valid in 2000
> BCE they most certainly would not be valid in the 14th century CE given the
> advanced state of agriculture at that time.

No. I am not. The time period I am referring to is 500 to 800 AD. I believe
it differs from scholar to scholar and in period from region to region. I'm
a little surprised that since I mentioned the transistion from two field to
three field rotation that since you have been studying period agriculture
that you would think I was talking about 2000 BC or the 14th century. In the
14th century, the Black Plague had a much larger impact on agriculture than
anything else.

Much of my material comes from "The Medieval Machine" by Jean Gimpel, Penguin
Books, 1976, ISBN 0140045147. At least this is the book I could easily lay
my hands on.

Chapter 2, The Agricultural Revolution. ...until 1931, no academic realized
how inefficent the classical world had been in using animal power and how
inventive the medieval man was in this respect.  ...Noette's theory was that
the Greeks and Romans had never found the correct way to harness horses but
had simply adapted the yoke harness of the ox, with minor modifications, to
the horse. ..As soon as the horse starts to pull, the neck straps pressed
on their jugular veins and windpipes, strangling them and making them throw
back their heads like the horses of the Parthenon... The correct way to
harnessing horses was to build rigid, padded collars... This modern
harness seems to have been used for the first time somewhere in the steppes...
It was introduced into Europe sometime in the eighth century...The earliest
representation of horses working the fields appear in the border of the
Bayeux Tapestry...where there is one pulling a harrow...

The horse, like the tractor that superseded it, was certainly not adopted
everywhere and at the same time. ...It went against tradition: for centuries
Europeans had used only the ox for plowing. ... Horses had to have special
food- oats -and this confronted the farmer with a fundamentally new problem,
as oats had to be specially grown.

...The horse and the ox exert roughly the same pull, but as the horse moves
roughly 50 percent faster...Horses also have greater endurance and can work
two hours longer per day in the fields.

[Here the author does mention the increasing use of period farming managment
treatises that "reveal a very modern approach to agricultural methods and
economics. Thus lending support to some of Ras' contentions]

...The three-field system had many advantages...And as a further advantage,
it allowed farmers who wanted to plow with horses to have a spring crop of
oats, which would feed the horses.

There is more, but I'm tired of typing this in. Perhaps this gives an
idea of what I am basing my statements on.

> I still do not see any evidence
> that a pound of wheat in the middle ages would have been considered more
> desirable than a dozen eggs or a pound of chicken on the dinner table.

Interesting. I would like to see you get a dozen eggs or a pound of chicken
from one pound of wheat and nothing else. I seriously doubt you could do
this today, at least not for a sustainable time period.

Yes, those at the upper levels of society were much less effected by these
economies. This is the case today. I don't think I ever implied that a
pound of wheat would be preferred to a pound of meat, but that is not the
situation. You can't produce one pound of meat using one pound of wheat.
It is more a question of would you rather have that pound of meat or that
ten pounds of wheat (or whatever the number is). If the amount of wheat
is unlimited, yes you can feed it to the chickens to make meat. However
it wasn't anywhere near unlimited.

Perhaps another example will help. This is from "Cod" by Mark Kurlansky
which I've been reading. Now, and probably in period, "British and
Icelandic fisherman only reluctantly catch haddock after their cod
quotas are filled, because cod always brings a better price. Yet
Icelanders prefer eating haddock and rarely eat cod except dried. Asked
why this is so, Reykjavik chef Ulfar Eysteinsson said "We don't eat
money".

In other words, If you need that wheat (or whatever grain) to make it
through the winter you are not going to feed it to the chickens.

> So far
> your theories just don't apply to an advanced agricultural society. The
> Folger's Library has many manuals specifically written for the farmer and if
> I ever gain access to these manuals, I am certain that they would show what
> is self evident...that medieval and early modern agricultural methods were
> extremely advanced and the primitive ideas oftentimes ascribed to period
> agriculture is in error.

Well, I've already mentioned a fairly large bibliography of period materials
that is available in the Florilegium. Maybe you can use that to get started
and not wait for access to the Folger's Library.

Other folks have worked around problems in accessing collections, some of
these problems caused by fellow SCAers and their reputations. Perhaps
some of the comments in this file in the EDUCATION section might be of
a help in seeing what to do or not do.
museums-msg       (20K) 12/16/99    Experiences in museums by SCA people.

> Ras

Stefan
- --
Lord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas           stefan at texas.net


Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:07:12 EST
From: Gerekr at aol.com
Subject: Re:  RE: SC - Ninth century agriculture

There is an excerpt from the de Villes at <li><A 
HREF="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/carol-devillis.html">Medieval 
Sourcebook: The Capitulary De Villis 9th Century</A>.

Meistari Gerekr


Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:20:39 -0600
From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Pumpkin in Tusser

david friedman wrote:
> Someone wrote (I'm picking this one up second hand)
> >  >Even if it isn't New World pumpkin, are there any European cookbooks
> >  >that actually refer to pumpkin or pompon or pompion?
>
> The OED entry under pompion quotes Tusser, 1570 or so,  as saying (I
> think) that it is boiled or cooked in butter in May. But that doesn't
> sound like pumpkin, given the date, and the West Kingdom contest is
> fall, not spring.

The edition of Tusser I have at home, which is primarily 1557 with some 1571
collated in, has a section of tables at the back called "Of Herbs and Flowers"
which contains the only reference to Pompione (in the book) I could find.

Herbs and Roots, To Boil or To Butter
1.   Beanes, set in winter.
2.   Cabbeigis, sowe in March, and after remove
3.   Carrets
4.   Cytrons, sowe in May
5.   Gourdes, in May
6.   Nauewes, sowe in June.
7.   Pompione, in May
8.   Parseneps, in winter.
9.   Roncivall pease, set in winter.
10. Rapes, sow in June.
11. Turneps, in March and April.

Given the listing, I believe that the idea is to sow the pumpkin seed in May,
and eat it boiled/buttered when ripe.  Given the climate in England, the sowing
time sounds about right.

BTW, thanks for making me read the book.;> I hadn't realized the number of
recipes contained therein.

- -Magdalena


Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:28:53 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Known World Animal Husbandry and Arts and Sciences Symposium-KWAHASS

And it came to pass on 24 Jul 00,, that Thomas Gloning wrote:
> I append a list of some books and articles about the history of animals,
> birds, fishes, husbandry etc. up to the 17th/18th century...

A late-period work that you may wish to add to your list is webbed here:
http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/servlet/SirveObras/305301330001954467
073469/

Herrera, Gabriel Alonso de (1470-1539), _Obra de Agricultura_

I have, I think, mentioned it on this list before.  It discusses crops of 
various kinds, arboriculture, and animal husbandry.  Well worth a look 
by anyone interested in late-period farming who reads Spanish.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:28:24 -0500 (EST)
From: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: [SCA-AS] Noted in Passing: Farming in the First Millenium AD
To: <SCA-Herbalist at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>

Oh, for those who are interested in agriculture, horticulture and culture,
before 1000, specifically in Britain before 1066, you want this book.
Indeed you do. Citation:
_Farming in the First Millenium A.D.: British Agriculture between Julius
Caesar and William the Conqueror_, by Peter Fowler. (Cambridge: Cambridge
University Press, 2002).

It is out in paperback; Poison Pen Press has it.

The book looks at primarily archaelogical evidence for farming in Britain,
including old ploughing patterns visible in deserted villages, livestock
remains, tool remains. Documentary evidence is included when available.
Photographic and line drawing illustrations draw on modern re-creations as
well as archeology. The author is very clear about what sources he uses
and the range of sources available. There is an interesting discussion of
the development of the plough, sizes and prevalence of animal species in
investigated sites, types of technology, and other fascinating topics. The
list of resources is large and excellent, and provides a good jumping-off
spot...

-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net


Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:21:24 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How much land to feed a person
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Sharon Gordon wrote:
> Has anyone come across any information that would indicate how much land it
> took to feed one person in a particular location, or some indirect
> information I could use to figure it out?  The sort of thing I could 
> use would include: list of 6 question snipped

At least in England there's a rather famous study--
The Agrarian History of England and Wales, edited at least in part
by Joan Thirsk. It is several volumes in length. I am sure that
aspects of what you want are covered in there.
Individual estates have been studied for PhD's of course.
You might see what the local academic library offers in terms
of agrarian history and access to dissertations.
I rather suspect that it will vary over time due to place and climate
change. Certainly one reason for the adoption of the new world
potato had to do with substantial yield of foodstuffs in a small 
acreage.

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:38:10 +0200
From: UlfR <ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How much land to feed a person
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Sharon Gordon <gordonse at one.net> [2005.04.28] wrote:
> Has anyone come across any information that would indicate how much land it
> took to feed one person in a particular location, or some indirect
> information I could use to figure it out?  The sort of thing I could use
> would include:
>
> 1) Records of what was grown on an estate or farm and some indication 
> of how many people lived and worked there.

Look at agricultural history/archeaology research. I've seen some
summarized for Swedish conditions[1,2], and I recall that for early
middle ages/late iron age (1000-1200 or so) we are talking about 20
acres for a familly style farm. I can't recall if that includes forests
used for grazing or not (probably the latter).

> 2) A plan or some instructions about what each individual or tenant farmer
> should grow to provide enough for food for themselves/family and enough for
> their payment to the landlord/church/taxes.  And some idea about the average
> family or household size in the area.

IIRC Myrdals books [1,2] includes that kind of information.  They are in
Swedish, which may or may not be an impediment to you.

> 5) Archeological evidence on farm size, crops, and probable number of 
> people living there at any one time.

Do a scholar.google.com search, I would suspect that there is a
substancial amount of information available.

/Par

[1] Janken Myrdal
   Svenska Jordbrukets Historia.
         Bd 1: Jordbrukets Första Femtusen År: 4000 f.Kr - 1000 e.Kr.
   Bokförlaget Natur och Kultur (1998)

[2]  Janken Myrdal
   Svenska Jordbrukets Historia.
         Bd 2: Jordbruket under feodalismen: 1000- 1700
   Bokförlaget Natur och Kultur (1999)

-- 
UlfR Ketilson                               ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org


Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 14:48:24 -0400
From: "Martin G. Diehl" <mdiehl at nac.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How much land to feed a person
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>, gordonse at one.net

Sharon Gordon wrote:
> Has anyone come across any information that would indicate
> how much land it took to feed one person in a particular
> location, or some indirect information I could use to figure
> it out?  The sort of thing I could use would include:
>
> 1) Records of what was grown on an estate or farm and some
>    indication of how many people lived and worked there.
>
> 2) A plan or some instructions about what each individual
>    or tenant farmer should grow to provide enough for food
>    for themselves/family and enough for their payment to
>    the landlord/church/taxes.
>    And some idea about the average family or household size
>    in the area.
>
> 3) Food rations given to a person per day/week/year.
>
> 4) Yield records along with what was consumed, and what was
>    traded/sold, and what was bought.  And some indication of
>    the size group that was eating.
>
> 5) Archeological evidence on farm size, crops, and probable
>    number of people living there at any one time.
>
> 6) Lists of what a person should grow and store each year.
>
> Sharon
> gordonse at one.net

Some thoughts ...

... as with so much of what we study, 'it all depends' ...
on when and where.

[timeline: neolithic]

I have heard that one person could provide enough food for
2 people by foraging (hunter/gatherer) ... I have also heard
that activity took only a few hours per day ... I'll see if I
can find specific references ... and/or remember who provided
that information.  (Phlip had some ideas on that)

[timeline: acreage]

sometimes the grant of land was defined by an ox hide
(cut into thin strips)

sometimes by the land that could be ploughed by a team of oxen

sometimes by the land that could be ploughed by one horse

[timeline: farming method]

The Romans introduced the 2-field system of crop rotation;

At the time of Charlemagne the 3-field system of crop rotation
was introduced ... that changed the shape of the fields ...
and also doubled agricultural output ... but took 300 years
in order to be fully implemented -- land ownership also had to
change in order for the field layout to change ... the plagues
accelerated that change.

[timeline: power, energy]

(a) From the time of the Romans ... and later

Water powered mills; (but not necessarily as efficient as they
could be ... slaves, ya know ... )

oxen for ploughing, hauling (yoke harness),

horses could not be used in agriculture because the maximum
load they could draw was 500~1000 lbs ... the tack that was
effective for oxen was ineffective to use with horses ...
and it was illegal to exceed that 500~1000 lbs limit.

race horses, on the other hand ...

(b) The horse collar was introduced Ca. 600 ~ 800 from either
China or Mongolia and spread to both China and Europe.  Might
have been first used with camels ...

(c) later innovations in Europe included horseshoes, stirrups

[time line: horses: accessorizing <g> after all ... garb
comments are always on topic]

there is archeological evidence of the wooden horse bit as
early as ~ 12,000 BCE;

saddle (anybody know?);

oxen girth harness at least Classical Greece (but how much
earlier?);

Greeks and Romans used hiposandals and solae for their
horses and attached with thongs or wires -- one source said
that wealthy Romans even used gold for their horse's hooves
... is that the origin of 'the streets paved with gold' idea?

rigid hook-stirrups 100 AD (from a Kushan engraved gem)
Kushan Empire (ca. 2nd century B.C ~ 3rd century A.D.)
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/kush/hd_kush.htm

earliest evidence of horseshoes in Siberia 9th ~ 10th C.

nailed horseshoes mentioned in the Byzantine Tactica of the
Emperor Leo VI (reigned 886 ~ 911)

nailed horseshoes in common use by the 11th C.

Stirrups in Europe ca. 700

horse collar Ca. 600 ~ 800

spurs Ca. 1000 ~ 1100

iron horseshoes became common in military usage because of
long castle sieges ca. 1100's

iron horseshoes became common in farming 100 ~ 200 years later

another side question ... does anyone know when the caltrop
was introduced?

"III Corps Heraldic Items"
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Lineage/ACDSB/IIICps.htm
http://pao.hood.army.mil/ag/MPD/Redux1.htm [image]

[timeline: power, energy (continued)]

explosive growth in the number of water powered mills
beginning ca. 700's

The 3-field system introduced in the time of Charlemagne
produced oats as one of the crops ... feed for the horses
... but was that _because_ the horse collar allowed the
use of horses in agriculture or was the availability of
oats as a feed that was the motivator?  ... Ummmm, could
I get back to you later on that?  <g>

Oxen and horses provide about the same pull (ft. lbs.) ...
but the horse moves much faster and provides 50% more power
(ft. lbs. per second) and can work 1 ~ 2 hours more per day.

Modern calculations show that an ox is 30% more expensive
than a horse.

Other commentary in MTSC mention that evidence shows horses
were used in Norway in the late 9th C ... but we have no
pictures of horses working the fields until 200 years or more
later, when two appear in the Bayeux Tapestry (probably made
in Kent ca, 1077~1082)

12th C Slavic lands East of Germany, the ploughland
measurement consisted of as much as could be worked by a
pair of oxen  or by one horse." MTSC

"tidal powered mills recorded in Ireland ca. 7th C; in the
Venetian Lagoon before 1050; near Dover in the Domesday book.
Utility limited by short operating hours (6-10 hours a day);
eccentric working hours; and storm damage." CFW

[timeline: energy, power: windmills]

windmills introduced ca. 1000 ~ 1100

Pope Celestine III (1191 ~ 1198) ruled that windmills
should pay tithes,

windmills generally became common throughout Europe in the
next 100 years.

windmills were so well known by 1319 that Dante used the
metaphor of Satan whirling his arms like a windmill

	"come un molin che il vento gira"

some exceptions ... windmills were not well known in
La Mancha until the time of Cervantes.

[timeline: transportation]

pivoted front axles ... larger wagons, easier steering ...
but before that, much smaller 2 wheel carts)

ca. 1150 four-wheeled 'longa carta'

by ca. 1250 wagon usually had 4 wheels

"Friar Salimbene records that in 1248 at Hyeres in Provence,
Friar Peter of Apulia replied when asked what he thought of
Joachim's teachings, 'I care as little for Joachim as for
the fifth wheel of a wagon.'" MTSC

The switchover from oxen to horses allowed the farmers to
ride a horse to the field .,.. for ploughing, land clearing,
&c. In consequence, the farmers lived in the village and rode
a horse to reach their fields Ca. 1050 ~ 1200's.  Proof for
this comes from archaeological evidence that small hamlets
were increasingly abandoned in that time period (but at a time
not associated with a war).  This also promoted the growth of
arts, crafts, jewelry, ... access to a better social setting,
larger church, some schooling also possible; also easier to
marry off the daughters in a larger community.

================

It's too bad you didn't take my Pennsic XXX class,

      "Machines, Technology, Change: Ancient ~ Medieval"

It's also too bad (my bad, in fact) that I never created the
class handout either.

But the Good News (TM) is that I still have (and love!) the
4 books I used as references to prepare my talk on the subject ...

  From the draft handout ...

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Machines, Technology, Change

A survey of technology and change,
from ancient through medieval times.

The References

J. G. Landels; "Engineering in the Ancient World"; ISBN 0-520-22782-4;
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0520227824/qid=999260727/sr=1-2/ 
ref=sc_b_2/102-3483475-4458511

Frances and Joseph Gies; "Cathedral, Forge, and Waterwheel";
ISBN 0-06-092581-7;
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060925817/qid=999260851/sr=1-1/ 
ref=sc_b_1/102-3483475-4458511

Jean Gimpel; "The Medieval Machine: The Industrial Revolution
of the Middle Ages"; ISBN: 0140045147;
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140045147/ref=pd_sbs_b_2/102 
-3483475-4458511

Lynn Townsend White; "Medieval Technology & Social Change";
ISBN: 0195002660;
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0195002660/ref=pd_sbs_b_1/102 
-3483475-4458511

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

These reference books offer strong utility for our studies ...

Medieval Machine has

30 pages on Agriculture and food use statistics;
20 pages on labor conditions
12 pages of notes (~ 225 notes, ~ 70 references);
12 pages of index

Medieval Technology & Social Change has

40 pages on the Agricultural Revolution of the Early Middle Ages;
60 pages on the Medieval Exploration of Mechanical power;

even the 40 pages on 'Stirrup, Mounted Shock Combat,
Feudalism and Chivalry' offer insights into how horse power
changed agriculture during the period of study;

40 pages of notes;
17 pages of index;

and footnotes on almost every page of text

Cathedral, Forge, and Waterwheel has

36 pages of notes;
16 pages of bibliography;
12 pages of index

Engineering in the Ancient World has

4 pages of bibliography;
6 pages of index

Vincenzo


Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:18:36 EDT
From: Stanza693 at wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] TI Article
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

> There are very few English language primary sources on growing plants
> before the 1500s. Most gardening treatises before that point were
> written in Latin.
> --  
> -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net  

The Spanish can get close, though!

Not English language and not pre-1500, but I picked up "Ancient Agriculture"
last year or early this year.  It is a compilation and translation of Gabriel
Alonso do Herrera's "Obra Agricultura" from 1513.

A sus ordenes,
Constanza Marina de Huelva


Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:46:38 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread Labor
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

aaahhh that makes more sense. At least in terms of England they should
take a look at the multi-volumed set titled 
The Agrarian History of England and Wales.
Cambridge University Press.
Volume 3 covers 1348-1500-- 1. Introduction: land and people; 2. The
occupation of the land; 3. Farming practice and techniques; 4. Marketing
the produce of the countryside, 1200?1500; 5. Prices and Wages,
1350?1500; 6. Landlords; 7. Tenant farming and tenant farmers; 8.
Peasant rebellion and peasant discontents; 9. Rural building in England
and Wales; Select bibliography; Index. It's $190 so it's too expensive
to buy but it ought to be in your larger academic libraries.

In terms of the economics take a look at the Cambridge Economic
histories or those produced by Oxford.
They might also find a book like the Bakers of Paris and the Bread
Question by Steven Kaplan to be worth a look.
It's 18th century France but it does cite earlier stuff.

Johnnae

> They aren't looking at it as being the same person.  Just the  
> physical  labor
> involved in producing in this case, a loaf of bread. snipped
>
> Aldyth


Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:59:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Qi min yao shu, was: Making vinegar?

According to the Library of Congress, 'Qi min yao shu' is 6th Century AD.  Looking at the entries, not all of this work is cookery.  A lot deals with agriculture.  This record that I found was the first that gives 'cookery' as a subject

Jia, Sixie, 6th cent. 
 Qi min yao shu. Yin shi bu fen / Jia Sixie zhuan ; Shi Shenghan jin shi. 
Di 1 ban. Beijing : Zhongguo shang ye chu ban she, 1984. 
 222 p. ; 19 cm. 
Zhongguo peng ren gu ji cong kan 
Cookery, Chinese--Early works to 1800. 

Unfortunately, this book has not been translated.  The version that I have found translated, is about agriculture, not cookery:

Shi, Shenghan. 
 A preliminary survey of the book Ch?i min yao shu : an agricultural encyclopaedia of the 6th century /  Shih Sheng-han. 2d ed.  Peking : Science Press : distributed by Guozi Shudian, 1962, t.p. 1974. 
 x, 107 p. ;  21 cm. 
At head of title: Ch?i min yao shu kai lun. 
Passages quoted in Chinese with English translation. 
 Jia, Sijie, 6th cent.  Qi min yao shu. 
 Agriculture--Early works to 1800. 
 Agriculture--China. 

So I am not sure how beneficial the English version would be to cookery.

Looking on WorldCat, I found that Washington State University, in Pullman, has an English version of this title, although not the same publisher.  It still is listed as being under 'Agriculture'.

The English translated version I listed above has a lot of copies in many universities.  

Univ. of Calif., Riverside; UCLA; UC Berkeley; UC Davis; Stanford Univ.; Calif. State Univ., Los Angeles; Claremont Colleges; San Francisco Public Library; Univ. of Arizona, Tucson; Brigham Young Univ.; Univ. of Utah;  St. Johns College, Santa Fe; Univ. of Oregon, Eugene; Portland State Univ.; Univ. of Colorago, Boulder; Univ. of Denver; Univ. of Washington, Seattle; Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver; Texas A&M; Univ. of Nebraska, Lincoln; Univ. of Regina; Univ. of Saskatchewan; Univ. of Missouri, Columbia; Univ. of Missouri, St. Louis; Washington Univ. St. Louis; Univ. of Iowa; Iowa State Univ.; Univ. of Minnesota, Minneapolis; Southern Illinois Univ.; Univ. of Illinois, Urbana; Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison; Univ. of Wisconsin, Milwaukee; Carthage College; Indiana Univ.; Northwestern Univ.; Vanderbilt Univ.; Univ. of Tennessee, Knoxville; Miami Univ., Ohio; Cleveland Public Lib.; Univ. of Akron; Univ. of Kentucky; Michigan State Univ.; Univ. of
Michigan, Ann Arbor; Buffalo Public Library; Univ. of Rochester; Cornell Univ.; SUNY Binghamton; Brooklyn Public Lib.; Columbia Univ.; New York State Lib.; New York City Pub. Lib.; McMaster University; Univ. of Pittsburg; Penn State Univ.; Univ. of Penn., Philadelphia; Duke Univ.; North Carolina State Univ.; Univ. of North Carolina, Chapel Hill; George Washington Univ.; Univ. of Delaware, Newark; Univ. of Maryland, College Park; Princeton Univ.; Univ. of Vermont, Burlington; Amherst College; Boston College; Brandais Unive.; Harvard Univ.;
Dartmouth College; Univ. of Connecticut; Yale Univ., Univ. of Rhode Island; Dalhousie Univ.; Univ. of Sheffield, UK; Cambridge Univ.; Oxford Univ.; Massey Univ. NZ; Latrobe Univ. Victoria, Australia; Australian National Univ. Camberra; State Lib. of South Australia; Univ. of Queensland; Univ. of Western Australia; Univ. of Melbourne.

I skipped some of the smaller American libraries, the European libraries, and the Asian libraries. I also skipped over all the Chinese language copies.

So, Thomas of Silverwood, there probably is a copy somewhere close to you.  I am just not sure that this English copy has the vinegar recipes in it, but not having seen this book, I cannot be sure.

The first book that I mentioned is not translated into English, but it does deal with cookery.  Perhaps Adamantius' wife or MIL could translate this for us?

Huette 
Caid

On 11/13/09 11:17 PM, "Robert Dunn" <robert.arthur.dunn at gmail.com>
wrote:
<<< There are a lot of sources for vinegar making from the
1700-1800 period, but prior to that I haven't had much luck with
primary sources.

There is however the Qi Min Yao Shu, a multi volume work from China in
the? 3rd(?) century which contains methods for making 22 types of
vinegar. I have yet to find a translation, later edition, etc near me.

Thomas of Silverwood >>>


From the FB "Medieval and Renasisance Cooking and Recipes" group:

Galefridus Peregrinus
October 1 at 11:56am · Towaco, NJ
Stumbled across while exploring a few rabbit trails; of possible interest to this group:
The Price History of English Agriculture, 1209-1914, at
www.econ.ucdavis.edu
ECON.UCDAVIS.EDU

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