hops-msg - 2/8/01
Use of hops in period and today.
NOTE: See also the files: beer-msg, brewing-msg, p-herbals-msg, Palladius-art, herbs-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, spices-msg, spiced-wine-msg, wassail-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:48:45 -0600
From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>
Subject: SC - Turkeys in Tusser
Thomas Tusser _500 Good Points of Husbandry_ (1571)
From May's Husbandry:
Grass, thistle, and mustard-seed, hemlock and bur,
tine, mallow, and nettle, that keep such a stur;
With peacock and turkey, that nibble off top,
are very ill neighbors, to seely poor hop.
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:25:09 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Turkeys in Tusser
magdlena at earthlink.net writes:
<< With peacock and turkey, that nibble off top,
> > are very ill neighbors, to seely poor hop.
> >>
Meaning> Peacocks and turkeys are poor neighbors to the frail poor hop plant
because they eat the growing tips off them.
Ras
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:04:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: liqueurs
> << Hops does not
> appear to be used much early on >>
> Actually, from my understanding, hops were used early on. They were used as a
> potherb and medicinally. Agreed, they were not used for brewing early on but
> other plants were used in their place. It appears that hops were eventually
> relegated to brewing because they possessed all the qualities of the other
> herbs used earlier and they grow fast enough that commercial brewers took an
> interest.
Hildegarde of Bingen's _Physica_ mentions hops used for brewing (12th
century German).
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:49:47 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: liqueurs
Jenne Heise wrote:
> > << Hops does not appear to be used much early on >>
> > Actually, from my understanding, hops were used early on. They were used as a
> > potherb and medicinally. Agreed, they were not used for brewing early on but
> > other plants were used in their place. It appears that hops were eventually
> > relegated to brewing because they possessed all the qualities of the other
> > herbs used earlier and they grow fast enough that commercial brewers took an
> > interest.
>
> Hildegarde of Bingen's _Physica_ mentions hops used for brewing (12th
> century German).
I seem to recall reading that hops have been used in brewing (or rather,
as one of several gruit ingredients) on the Continent since at least the
eighth or ninth centuries C.E. Their acceptance in Britain was slow in
coming because, I gather, the importation of Flemish beer, laced with
hops for their perceived or genuine preservative qualities, was
upsetting the trade in unhopped English ale both by being a foreign
import and by having a longer shelf life.
The "pernicious weed" may actually have had some preservative qualities,
but given the number of hopped ales I've seen go bad, I suspect the
bitter flavor's ability to counteract the sourness of an infected beer
is at least as significant as any genuine preservative qualities. Hops'
other important role, as a soporific, is pretty well-documented.
Adamantius
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 23:49:33 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - hops salad
TG wrote:
> << ... pimpernels, which are a flower of the primrose family and, I
> believe, edible? I mean, since we're already eating hops??? >>
>
> in 1581, hops salad is nothing new.
I wasn't specifically aware of this before now, but I'm not surprised. I
know hop shoots are eaten in a number of ways in places like Kent in
England, and in various parts of France and Germany. (I wonder what they
do with hop plants in France, which reportedly sports some of the worst
beers on earth. Of course, being framed by both England and Germany,
they would probably have that reputation no matter what they brewed.)
My point was only that if we're getting into edible flowers, which hops
essentially are (although the shoots are the part of the hop that seems
to be eaten) we might as well think in terms of the pumpernelle being a
flower as well.
BTW, I seem to recall seeing references to the term pimpernels also
being applied to a type of small bird. I guess the context of a given
recipe would make it fairly clear which one they mean.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:26:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2924
> Hopping beer presumably started around the 12th or 13th Centuries, somewhat
> after the Viking period.
Hm. Hildegarde of Bingen (1098-1179) wrote in her _Physica_ (1151-1158)
of hops 'its bitterness inhibits some spoilage in beverages to which it
is added, making them last longer', and later mentions a recipe 'if you
want to prepare beer from oats, without hops...' (this is from the
translation by Priscilla Throop). So unless the translator or intervening
sources have altered the text, one presumes that hopped beer was known in
Germany by 1160.
- --
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:05:47 -0500
From: grizly at mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2924
sca-cooks at ansteorra.org wrote:
> Hopping beer presumably started around the 12th or 13th Centuries, somewhat
> after the Viking period.
> > > Hm. Hildegarde of Bingen (1098-1179) wrote in her _Physica_ (1151-1158) of hops 'its bitterness inhibits some spoilage in beverages to which it is added, making them last longer', and later mentions a recipe 'if you want to prepare beer from oats, without hops...' (this is from the translation by Priscilla Throop). So unless the translator or intervening sources have altered the text, one presumes that hopped beer was known in Germany by 1160. < < < <
My recollection of reading about the life and impact of Hildegarde
on socio-politcal atmospheres suggets that she was not in the center of what you might call the mainstream. She often wrote about things that were considered heretical or pagan. Not that they are to be discounted, but further exploration would be suggested to determine what faction of the culture she is describing was using these items and to what degree they generalized. 12th century Germany wasn't all that kind to a woman who sang in the churches and wrote about herbal healing of the tribal 'barbarians' as well as spoke out to raise visibility of women in a very male dominated time, so one may need dig deeply to find how it all fits together.
niccolo difrancesco
<the end>