herbs-msg - 2/13/08 Herbs used in period and how they were used. Modern sources. NOTE: See also the files: spices-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, p-herbals-msg, herb-uses-msg, Herbs-Sm-Grdn-art, seeds-msg, lavender-msg, herb-mixes-msg, Basic-Herbs-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: evans at lvipl.csc.ti.com ("Eleanor J. Evans at 462-5330") Date: 11 Dec 89 18:13:27 GMT Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Pennyroyal is an effective flea repellent - I assume it would work on ticks and mites, as well. Eleanor MacNaughton evans at lvipl.ti.com From: EPSTEIN%KSUVM.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Emily Epstein) Date: 10 Aug 90 21:38:00 GMT Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism Newsgroups: rec.org.sca I checked a few references to reply to Owain of Shrewsbury's query of August 4: >Is the herb Lemonbalm period? I wish to use some instead of mint in >sekanjabin just to see what it tastes like. While I KNOW the use of it in >sekanjabin isn't period (most likely) I simply want to try it for personal >use. I've got access to lemonbalm (sp?) as it's growing in my backyard. Is it >originally European or is it strictly a north american herb. Milord, lemon balm (Melissa officinalis) is indeed of old-world origin, being a Mediterranean native. It was grown by the ancient Greeks and Romans, and was well known in south central Europe throughout period, under the names Melisophyllon (Greek) or Apiastrum (Latin). I have read (I forget where) that it was brought to Britain by the Romans, but _Sturtevant's Edible Plants of the World_ (Dover, 1972, p.359-60) says it didn't arrive in England until 1573, which seems awfully late. According to Malcolm Stuart (_Encyclopedia of Herbs & Herbalism_, Crescent, 1987, p. 222) it was used exclusively as a bee plant until the 15th century, when it was used by the Arabs to treat depression, ans as a tonic. Carol Ann Rinzler (_The Complete Book of Herbs, Spices & Condiments_, Facts on File, 1990, p.23-24) places its medicinal and culinary use as early as 1000. Oh well, pick your expert and take your chances. :-) I hope you find the above useful. Yours sounds like a worthy experiment, and I'd be interested to hear the results. Frankly, the omnipresent tea and lemonade at feast get tiresome. In Calontir of late, ginger water, orange water and sekanjubin (sp?) have been served with some success, but I'm always looking for new alternatives. Yours in service, <=========> Alix Mont de fer |=======| (Emily Epstein) |* * * *| Shire of Spinning Winds =====/ (Manhattan, KS) / ||| epstein at ksuvm.ksu.edu | ||| /___ From: billmc at microsoft.UUCP (Bill MCJOHN) Date: 21 Feb 91 17:43:00 GMT Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA CANNING at intellicorp.COM (Janet Canning) writes: > It is spring and I would like to start a garden project. I am lookin into > a Medieval/Renaissance herbal garden and I'm blocked by mundane problems. > > 2-mundane book titles that specialize in Medieval/Ren gardens, history etc. You may wish to consult _Plants from the Past_, by David Stuart and James Sutherland (Penguin Books, 1987). The authors are interested in restoring and recreating gardens from various periods. The book includes a short chapter describing the principle characteristics of gardens of various times, following the changing fashions from the late middle ages through the nineteenth century. The bulk of the book is discussion of various genera (arranged alphabetically) and their history in garden use. It is principally aimed at the English flower garden, but herbs and continental references show up, too. The authors also give a list of primary sources (e.g. John Gerard's _Herball_ of 1597) and refer to these sources frequently in the main text. Finally, there is a short list of Further Reading. All in all, this is a charming and informative book. Another approach would be to simply read period writings (especially recipes) looking for references to common plants. I doubt that the species forms of our common herbs (thymus vulgaris, salvia officinalis, rosmarinus officinalis, lavandula angustifolia, nepeta cataria, the various alliums) have changed much since the middle ages. Herbs simply haven't been subjected to the same intense breeding as flowers. Roses, on the other hand... I would certainly be interested in the results of your search. Good luck! Bill McJohn billmc at microsoft From: jane at STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Jane Beckman) Date: 1 Nov 91 23:42:01 GMT Gillyflower is also called "clove gillyflower." Generally, it's Dianthus caryophyllus---clove carnation. For flavoring purposes, it's generally a strongly spicy carnation. In common vernacular, it can also refer to the sweet-scented stock. Turnsole or giresole is the "pot marigold," the calendula. "Marigold observes the sun/More than my subjects me have done." --Shakespeare The petals are used for flavoring. And very tasty with meat, I might add. -Jilara of Carrowlea [jane at swdc.stratus.com] Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: hwt at bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup) Subject: Rhubarb Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 20:01:07 GMT odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes: |> PS: Was rhubarb eaten in period (was it *known* in period)? It's another |> one of those fun plants that has poisonous leaves. Only as a laxative, in my reading. It's in most of the herbals. Rhubarb needs *lots* of sugar for most people's taste. Sugar was very expensive. -- Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ritchiek at sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) Subject: Re: Rhubarb Organization: Purdue University Computing Center Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 14:32:32 GMT From what I found when documenting my rhubarb wine. rhubarb was used mainly as a medicinal herb in period and was not eaten as we do now in pies, crisps and jellies until the early nineteenth century. Alcoholic beverages using rhubarb as a flavoring or as the vegetable of fermentation were known in period. See Gerard's herbal. -Isabeau Pferdebandiger, Barony of Rivenstar, Middle Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ritchiek at sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) Subject: Re: Rhubarb's taste Organization: Purdue University Computing Center Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 14:40:01 GMT In period Rhubarb was not eaten as it is now it was considered a medicinal herb. People often thought the whole plant was poisonous because the leaves are. and some persons prone to gout cannot eat the stalk either because of the high oxalic acid content. Rhubarb did not come into real use until the late eighteenth, early nineteenth century. Prior to that it was used as a flavoring in alcoholic beverages, and medicinally as a laxative and purifier. -Isabeau Pferdebandiger, Barony of Rivenstar, Middle From: JLC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (JENNIFER CARLSON) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Kibbutzing (was Skirrets) Date: 24 Nov 1993 11:28:59 -0500 Actually, salsify is both an Old World and New World plant. _Tragopogon porrifolius_, also called 'goat's beard', is indigenous to continental Europe and the British isles. 'Meadow salsify', _Tragopogon pratensis_ is the North American version. Yours in service, Dunstana Talana the Violet Northkeep, Ansteorra Jennifer Carlson Tulsa, Oklahoma JLC at vax2.utulsa.edu From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period brewing and herbs... Date: 25 Nov 93 13:14:42 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. Alecost was used for brewing, I've got some growing in my back garden, but sadly I haven't any recipes. So if anyone knows what part it did play let me know. I suspect it was used like hops are now. The fruit of the service tree was used to make beer in england, and pubs serving ale made from service fruit were called chequer pubs because of the trees chequered bark. You can still find old pubs called chequers which probably started out serving ale from the service tree. I have no idea if it had any medicinal properties, but I would guess its an old beverage because service trees won't seed in our currently cold climate, so the custom might date to when the country was warmer a millenium ago? Nowadays the tree will grow from seed in France but is infertile here where, though it can extend by suckers from the root system. When the queen got into the supers of my beehives she layed brood all over the honey and the result was a bitter tasting honey. In medieval beekeeping where the queen was not restricted in her movements about the colony honey flavoured with bitter brood food would be common. We used the honey to brew a spicy metheglin and it tasted quite good, perhaps some of the metheglin recipes which use herbs or spices in mead were a result of brewers making best use of their worst honey? I suppose spices were quite expensive whereas herbs could be home grown, so disguising a bad taste might be a more likely use for herbs than spices? Jennifer Vanaheim vikings Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke) Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes - sources for flowers Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:41:57 GMT Have you tried your local health food/organic food stores? Some of them sell dried flower parts (rose petals, rose hips, elder flowers, dried violets, etc) for making herbal teas. Also available in bulk from herb companies that do mail order - Frontier, Penn Herb, etc. While rather expensive (compared with roadside gathering the stuff), you have a good chance the items were meant for human consumption. --Marian of Edwinstowe, Carolingia, EK marian at world.std.com From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: woad Summary: wear to get it- good quality & good price Date: Wed, 04 May 94 20:01:19 EDT Respected friends: Baroness Meghan ni Leine, when not busy being informative and wonderful, also sells processed, purified, ready-for-use powdered Woad. contact her C/O Linda Anfuso, Wilton, NH, 03082 By the way- the blue part of the woad is not and never was any sort of hallucinogen. The raw sap crushed from fresh woad leaves _sometimes_ causes surface skin numbness, slight dizziness, and (in certain bloodlines) a vague impression of less danger or more confidence. No hallucinations- sorry about that, but Picts wearing woad charged Romans wearing armor because they were like that, not because they were 'orf ther 'eads:->. It also requires you have one of the right half-dozen out of several hundred subspecies/varieties of Woad plant to start with. In other words, not much chance. And since any form of heating seems to destroy the whatever- it-is completely, feel free to find something more likely to worry about. Like Black Widows in the privy. Honour/Alizaunde From: kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu (kathleen keeler) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: juniper Date: 10 Jan 1995 15:53:27 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln Alban listed juniper, juniper seeds, juniper berries, questionable. I wrote an article in Calontir's cooking guild newletter on juniper some years ago. This is mostly from memory, ask if you want the sources- "Juniper" _Juniperus communis_ common juniper, is a European tree/shrub. As noted previously, the seeds are used to make gin. The seeds were eaten--used as a flavoring--in Europe in the Middle Ages. It was also a medicinal herb (berries and leaves). [Botanical detail: The berries are actually small fleshy (seed-containing, pistilate) cones, this being a Gymnosperm]. It is discouraged as a food and medicinal herb today because it is hard on the kidneys--to be avoided by preganant women and anyone with kidney problems. The USDA concluded there are safer plants with the same medicinal effects. In cooking, you'd use only a few berries--STRONG flavor--so chances of harm low, but one might not want to serve it to a feast. _J. communis_ is planted all over the US, and can be gathered from plantings, or purchased. My copy of Gray's Manual of Botany suggests it has naturalized in the Eastern US, here in Nebraska we only have it where its planted. The US has several native Junipers, "cedars" in our vernacular. I considered substituting them ('creative anachronism'). They differ from each other and from _J. communis_. For example, eastern red cedar _J. virginiana_ ranges from the Atlantic to nearly the Rocky Mountains. Since reports of Native Americans eating it are few, but they used it medicinally, I conclude its generally too strong for food. The contrast is Rocky Mountain red cedar, _J. scopulorum_ which was widely used by tribes as a flavoring. I think that could be used to replace "juniper" in a Period recipe. All three have wonderfully similar medicinal uses, for example to make a vapor to be inhaled for congestion as in a cold. My favorite Medieval tale of juniper, is that it would protect your house from witches: hang a branch over the door, the witch has to count all the needles correctly to come in (so if you use a big branch, you should be safe) copy or the references. Agnes deLanvallei **Juniper berries are hot in the third degree, and dry but in the first, being a most admirable counter-poison...Culpeper** From: callred at carbon.cudenver.edu (Curtis L. Allred) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: juniper Date: 10 Jan 1995 11:27:32 -0700 Organization: University of Colorado at Denver Dearest Gentles, Greetings! kathleen keeler (kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu) wrote: <article cut, portion included below> A most enriching article about Juniper! One of my favorite bushes/trees. : It is discouraged as a food and medicinal herb : today because it is hard on the kidneys--to be avoided by preganant : women and anyone with kidney problems. This piece of advice is very helpful, as I have frequently eaten the fruit of the juniper on hikes in the outdoors, as well as sharing it with others (I cannot think now if I have given some to pregnant women--I hope not!). The best way to eat it, I have found is to select a female bush (there are male and female junipers, females have berries, males don't), then find a nice, dark blue (the color of brand-new Levis) berry. Carefully hold it up to your teeth and nibble the outside peeling, which has an incredibly sweet, sharp taste, well worth the trouble of trying to perform this feat of oral dexterity. You may eat the innards of the berry, but it is not as tasty and has lots of seeds. Juniper berries are full of things that are good for ya (vitamins, body tonic, etc), and so are good for pepping you up when you are tired on a hike. They also give your breath a refreshing taste. My experience is that junipers are MOST plentiful out here in the Western US, where they grow very well in dry climates and poor soils. There is nothing as beautiful as a 100 year-old female juniper tree out in the desert, providing shade and protection from blizzards to the desert creatures that also eat its berries. A lot of people mistakenly know junipers as cedars, but they are easily distinguished--cedars have fan-shaped foliage, junipers don't. Most trees and bushes that are juniper/ cedar-like are indeed junipers, although they are mostly called cedars. And, it is the lowly juniper bush that gives gin its unique flavor. Anyway, just a postscript to the wonderful article preceding this one. --Hugh Makpease, the mercenary, who smells of elderberries From: kathy.duffy at buckys.com (Kathy Duffy) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: period plants Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 03:59:00 GMT Organization: *Bucky's BBS* (609)861-1131 B>> berries(?), juniper seeds(?), juniper(?), jyllowflowers (red) >> >> that enough? <grin> the ones with question marks i'm not sure >> about. B> Juniper (berries, seeds and leaves) can all be used to help mfg & >flavor the alcoholic spirit gin........... Can't help with the others, >though........ Also found in many recipes such as pork roasts and helps add a gamey flavor Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker) Subject: Re: Lets talk about herbs Organization: Ask about rec.gardens.organic :) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 23:48:14 GMT David Salley (salley at niktow.canisius.edu) wrote: : Mandrake are now known by the modern name, Mayapples. They affect deer the Nope! _American_ Mandrake (Podophyllum peltatum), a common North American plant, is the Mayapple. _European_ Mandrake (Mandragora officiarum) is the historic mandrake and has no relation to the Mayapple. (Mayapple is, however, extemely poisonous...even handling it can poison you.) My plant books advise _not_ growing it, but say that it requires partial shade and moist soil. --Max From: "E.Preston III & Shelly K Walker" <wf3 at icok.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval spices Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:57:15 -0600 two books to try: A Medieval Herbal and A Medieval Flower Garden. Publishers Chronicle Books of San Francisco, I got the herb book through a local Herb Farm who stays on the look out for me. She also has found natural dye books. I'd look at the herb stores first. Britta the Red.. From: norseman at voicenet.com (Chip W.) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Help with Herbs... Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:12:38 GMT lttunes at aol.com (Lt Tunes) wrote: >What is Sweetbriar and where would one obtain such an herb? >Carlin the Blond of Eastwood In all of my gardening and herb books (and I have a fair number), I found only one reference, in Eyewitness Handbooks HERBS, by Lesley Bremness. Here's the quote: "ROSA RUBIGINOSA (syn. Rose eglanteria) The dense growth of the Sweet Brier, Shakespeare's Eglantine, with apple-scented leaves is good as an aromatic hedge plant." Note the spelling of sweet brier vs sweetbriar. However, I would guess that specialty rose catalogs would be a good place to start your search (of course, I couldn't find my rose book - my house seems to have swallowed it up). Good Luck! Linette de Gallardon From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy M Renfrow) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Help with Herbs... Date: 19 Dec 96 19:16:06 GMT lttunes at aol.com (Lt Tunes) wrote: > > What is Sweetbriar and where would one obtain such an herb? Sweetbrier is Rosa rubiginosa L. (aka R. eglanteria Mill.), also called Eglantine, Hip-rose, Hip-Brier. Try Penn Herb 1-800-523-9971, or Aphrodesia. Yours in haste, C. Renfrow renfrow at skylands.net http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/ From: Jean-Baptiste joule <jb-joule at worldnet.fr> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Herbs and spice online Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 11:08:52 +0100 Organization: SCT / Worldnet - Internet Provider & Information Exchange - Paris, France Gentle Ladies, Lords and damsels, I found THAT while surfing the NET http://www.herbsinfo.com/default.htm Those people have herbs online and also provide some sort of information about their uses. I haven't done business with them yet, though. From: jahb at Lehigh.EDU Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Herbs Date: 23 Feb 1997 23:28:46 -0500 >Need info on medicinal herbs in the middle ages. Please e-mail me at >Nyfain at msn.com. Any help would be appreciated, son is doing a >science project and is 3 weeks behind, (the halfling will sleep with >the pigs from now on if he doesn't bring up his grade). Medieval >uses and potions and cures, whatever anyone has to offer, will be >greatley appreciated and may save a young boy from a shortened life >span. > >Nyfain Try consulting "Magic Herbs" by Rosetta Clarkson, or any reputable herb book. Off the top of my head-- mint for stomach troubles. Rosemary was burned and lavender strewed in sickrooms to clear the 'noxious fumes.' Also consult Culpeper's Herbal. Jennifer Heise, Net: jahb at lehigh.edu \ Senior Specialist, Web Management, LUIR Phone:(610)758-3072 / / Lehigh University, 8A E. Packer Avenue, Bethlehem PA 18015 \ From: "Perkins" <lwperkins at snip.net> Subject: Brother Cadfael's Herb Garden Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 13 Apr 97 21:43:16 GMT I was reading rec.gardens and ran across a book that might appeal to Brother Cadfael fans--it's titled Brother Cadfael's Herb Garden. If you go here you can take a look at the cover. Looks interesting, but not cheap--it's a "coffee table" book. http://british.books.american.prices.com/books/1650/1671midi.html From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (Nancy Wederstrandt) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:37:12 -0600 Subject: Re: SC - Carrots Concerning wild carrots: I think caution is somewhat advised. Many of the the wild relatives of the carrot are edible, but bear a very close look to the more poisonous kin. Lord Ras is correct in that be sure before you eat. Most of the poisonous relatives of the wild carrot are nasty smelling, and usually have purplish blotches on the stalks. Here in Ansteorra, wild carrot, wild parsley and hemlock can grow near enough to each other to be confusing. Also here are vast quantities of wild onion, which have a companion plant called crow bane that looks very similar. The key is the smell. I was fortunate enough to mundanely worked with a man who wild plant foraged and learned a great deal about them.(He used to be Society Master of Sciences early one) He often ate things that I personally wouldn't but were edible. We rapidly had three lists of plants... inedible, edible and gwilym edible. His name in the SCA was Master Gwilym the Smith. Clare RSJ From: "leslie vaughn" <leslievaughn at msn.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 21:22:09 UT Subject: RE: SC - any suggestions ?? Fennel is the "breath sweetener" of choice used in Italian feasts that I have documentation on. Isabeau From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:30:25 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - fennel as "breath sweetener Mark Harris wrote: > Isabeau said on Wed. April 16: > >Fennel is the "breath sweetener" of choice used in Italian feasts that I have > >documentation on. > Interesting. Can you give more information? Which part of the fennel plant? > Was it chewed on straight or mixed in something? Or perhaps steeped? > Stefan li Rous I think the seeds would be the logical part. I've eaten both wild andcultivated fennel, and the only thing part that really seems to have that effect is the seeds, except perhaps for large quantities of the leaves.In India fennel seed is commonly eaten after a meal both as a breath freshener and to avoid flatulence. Sometimes plain seeds are eaten,sometimes they are sugared as a comfit, and sometimes they are mixed with other spices, either in sugared or unsugared form. The sugared ones look and taste like tiny Good-'n'-Plenty candy.Adamantius From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:46:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: SC - fennel as "breath sweetener I just put fennel into my garden and was rereading a section from an herbbook which stated that the stalks could be eaten aften a meal as a breath freshier.It might also be okay to candy them much like angelica stalks are candied and eaten as breath sweeteners. Normally the seeds are eaten. People became very addicted to them (I read a complaint somewhere about a woman who ate so many that she left a little trail of seeds everywhere. Clare From: "G. Sofsky" <dragons2 at algorithms.com> Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:37:50 -0400 Subject: SC - - Herb sources I found these addresses in Sam Biser's Save Your Life Collection. These sources are for Pharmaceutical grade herbs but see no reason we can't use them too. I haven't received any catalogue's from them yet so I have no idea on cost factor, what each one actually carries or how some of them come. There are a few others that are wholesalers and will only sell to people with a business license. If there are any of you out there and you want those references, email me and I'll give you their 800 telephone numbers. Herbal Sources American Botanical Pharmacy Dr. Schulze's herbal formula P.O. Box 3027 Santa Monica, CA 90408 phone 310-453-1987 Pacific Botanicals Noted as being the best source for organic and wildcrafted bulk herbs. Wholesale, 1lb minimum, but will sell to Save-Your-Life readers. 4350 Fish Hatchery Road Grants Pass, OR 97527 503-479-7777 Blessed Herbs (their second choice for organic/wildcrafted herbs) Barre Plains Road Oakham, MA 01068 800-489-4372 Casaundra of the Wandering Dragons dragons2 at algorithms.com Date: 5 Aug 1997 08:39:19 -0700 From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu> Subject: Re: SC - saffron substitute I just got a beautiful book called "Brother Cadfael's Garden" based on the mystery novels with the 12th Century monastic main character. It appears to be very good at researching the herbs and such used in this series of novels and cross referencing them against period sources. So far it has one of the most complete and accesible encyclopedias of herbs with pictures that I have found. - -brid Date: 7 Aug 1997 08:34:56 -0700 From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu> Subject: Re: Re- SC - Advice, please! and some more useless info from my herb library: saffron crocus- crocus sativus (I have seen bulbs for order in some flower catalogues!) meadow saffron (common crocus?)- colchicum autumnale false saffron (safflower?)- carthamaus tinctoris fennel- foeniculum vulgare anise (aniseed, sweet cumin)-pimpinella anisum both were highly prized and used by the Romans. Charlemagne in the 800's had all the herbs in St. Gall's (anybody know where St. G's is?) monastery planted on all of his royal estates- which spread both of these throughout Europe. He also apparently said something to the effect of "these are good and useful", making them and their use popular. woo woo! Go Charlemagne! - -brid Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:24:21 -0500 (CDT) From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt) Subject: Re: Re- SC - Spices Stefan said: >And what do you mean by licorice sticks? I think he means licorice roots which are long thin roots you can chew on. Locally, you can get alot of these herbs from the Herb Bar on W. Mary (It's down south for a change) Also Whole Foods and the ever popular Central Market. You extract the flavoring by steeping or making an infusion. If you'd like to do infusions come to he Herbalist's Guild in December. We're gearing up to do Medicinal herbs in December so I can let you know. Clare St. John From: SiFiFem at aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sources for Woad Stefan- Please add these people to your source list of period herbs, spices and those hard to find historical feast items. They also carry woad and henna as used for body tattoo and henna painting. They have been doing SCA on the west coast for 12 years. Their store is : Dragonmarsh - 3744 Main St .- Riverside, Ca 92501 - Phone is (909) 276-1116. Thanks Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:55:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - A herb/spices question. . . << Having just moved some of the same bottles of herbs, spices and extracts for the third time in two years I began to wonder if any of this stuff was still good. What is the average shelf life for seasonings? >> For herbs, the average shelf-life is about 6 mths to a year before the flavor deteriorates substancially. Spices depend on how they've been stored and whether they are whole spices or ground spices. If they are bug and mold free, taste or smell. If they appear to still be strong then use them. For sauces and extracts, I would advise the same. I have had a quart bottle of Fish Sauce from Thailand on my shelf for 11 years. It's still good. Worchestershire also has an indefinate shelf life. While hot sauce tends to go rancid after a year or so. << How can you tell when its time to get rid of them? >> When they get bugs in them, mold, turn colors and/or smell taste wrong. :-) Lord Ras Date: 9 Sep 1997 15:03:49 -0700 From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu> Subject: Re: Fw- SC - A herb/spices question. . . Spices last longer than herbs, especially if un-ground. Both will last longer if kept sealed air-tight and in a dark place. (Which makes all those pretty spice racks with glass jars kinda a shame). How long they last also depends on how long they were in the store before you got them (random). The only way to know is to test them. Taste them, smell them- when you find yourself having to use "too much" of them in your regular cooking, it is time to get new. I have had dried parsley go terribly bland in a month, and tarragon last for years. - -brid (wishing she didn't rent so she could invest in planting a serious kitchen garden and always have relatively fresh herbs) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:19:56 -0400 From: Donna Kenton <donna at dabbler.com> Subject: Re: SC - feverfew DianaFiona at aol.com wrote: > To drag this more or less back on topic---does anyone remember any > mentions of feverfew in period herbals? I haven't checked for it > specifically............ > > Ldy Diana My lady, Gerard (1597) lists it, although he calls it "featherfew." I have on "Early American Gardens" which documents that they are the same thing. It's listed as a "women's" herb, good for childbirth and other female "complaints." I only took a cursory glance through the "Newe Iewell of Health" but didn't find it. (I've got to try some of those cough drops...) Rosalinde (who would dearly love to have a back yard big enough to build a Balneo Mariae) - -- Rosalinde De Witte/Donna Kenton * donna at dabbler.com * Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:25:18 -0400 From: Donna Kenton <donna at dabbler.com> Subject: Re: SC - feverfew marilyn traber wrote: > Am with puzzlement, a balneo mariae is modernly called a bain marie, > or in cooking a double boiler....? > > margali Sort of, on a grand scale. It's basically a brick "furnace" that they used to distill herbs for medicine. There's a lower chamber for the fire, and above that, either water or sand (depending on what they were processing) into which the pots would sit. The vapors from the water and herbs in the pot would rise, be caught, and condense, dripping into another pot. I have a horrible memory for what all the herbs were used for (have to look them up), but I find the old techniques are absolutely fascinating. Rosalinde - -- Rosalinde De Witte/Donna Kenton * donna at dabbler.com * Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:07:53 -0400 From: marilyn traber <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - feverfew Donna Kenton wrote: Sort of, on a grand scale. It's basically a brick "furnace" that they > used to distill herbs for medicine. There's a lower chamber for the > fire, and above that, either water or sand (depending on what they were > processing) into which the pots would sit. The vapors from the water > and herbs in the pot would rise, be caught, and condense, dripping > into another pot. Why do you want to do it on such a grand scale? I find foor household use the smaller sizes are more reaistic. there is a messy but nifty way to extract the ones too delicate for alcohol or water distillation, fat extraction. start with several panes of glass, smear them with fat-they used lard in period, i go for veggie shortening. place the flower[lilac is one specific, also mimosa] in the fat. insert the pane into a slot in a closed box or cupboard. let rest overnight. the next am, pluck out the blossoms with tweezers[or your fingers if you dont mind getting messy hands] place more blossoms in the fat, repeat until the fat has a strong odor of the flower you are extracting. scrape the fat off, mix as per unguent directions with soft beeswax. this takes care of those herbs and blossoms that are too delicate for heating. I have read specifically used with lilac and mimosa, would work with just about anything. If you are careful, you drop the fat in alcohol which will gently float the essential oils on the surface where youd skim them off and let the alcohol evaporate off, but it works really well using the unguent method. I suppose if you wanted hand or lip balm you could also use cocoa butter. margali Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: SC - Bay-references The folllowing references on the bay leaf question were provided by the gracious kindness of Viscountess Judith. MARKHAM> English Huswif, part 1, pg. 219. As a scrub (Bay Oil) Not found in Forme of Curye. Not found in Le Manegier. ALEXANDER NEKKHAM"S (sp?) Travelling Diaries > Daily Life in the 12th Century. May contain references to bay as a medicinal herb or more. Available at any good reference library. Works of Urban Tigner (sp?) may or may not contain bay laurel references. There you go. That is all we have so far. We are still researching this subject. Will post further details and comments as they become available. Lord Ras Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 20:57:53 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Bay-references Uduido at aol.com wrote: > The folllowing references on the bay leaf question were provided by the > gracious kindness of Viscountess Judith. > > MARKHAM> English Huswif, part 1, pg. 219. As a scrub (Bay Oil) > > Not found in Forme of Curye. > <snip> Just to add to your list, both leaves and berries appear in Apicius, and I believe that the leaves are mentioned in Taillevent's Viandier, which makes their absence from Le Menagier all the more peculiar... Adamantius Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:02:50 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Spices >I'm hoping someone can tell me what the two below spices are. The >receipe that I'm looking at is medicinal in nature and specifies: > >Pellitory of Spain, the weight of half a groat and Spegall. > >Phyllis L. Spurr >Eowyn ferch Rhys Cyfurdd >Barony of Elfsea, Ansteorra A mid-1930's Webster's gives pellitory as: Pellitory, a corruption of L. parietaria, the wall plant. Any plant of the genus Parietaria; hammerwort. Feverfew. Bastard peillitory; sneezewort. Nothing on spegall Bon Chance Bear Date: 13 Oct 1997 11:47:17 -0500 From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com> Subject: Re: SC - Herbs and their uses > I do not write the list much, but recently I have had a few questions >some of you may be able to answer-or tell me where to find the answer. >What were the uses of specific herbs (as many as possible) in the Middle >Ages & Ren? Also, what are the actual uses that we know of today-for >some herbs- medicinal ? This is a huge task, and one I am researching as we speak. I am in the process of collecting recipes and analyzing what herbs tended to be used together in cooking and what types of dishes they were used in (meat/vegetable, pie/roast/soup. etc.) I'll take someone's (meadbh's ??) suggestion and list five with multiple uses: Ceylon cinnamon -- cooking (especially with meat) Sandalwood (saunders) -- red saunders -- food coloring; scenting homes and people; decorative woodwork (fans, boxes) -- white -- not used much in food; used for scenting homes and people, decorative woodwork (fans, boxes) Pepper -- cooking, meats, vegetables and fruits Chamomile (and most flowers) -- cooking (mostly teas and salats); cosmetics ( lotion, baths) Saffron -- cooking (especially with cheeses and vegetables, but also as food coloring); cloth dyeing A word of caution: If you plan to use herbs in any way, please get a good modern herbal like John Lust's _The Herb Book_ before you begin. Many of the herbs used in period really aren't safe for ingestion. Regarding the modern medicinal use of herbs (this is what you seem to be looking for), let's not go there. Right now the legal terrain for this is very treacherous. > Lady Fiona Gwen O'Brannigan Of Northkeep > mka-(Angela Conn) >fianna at geocities.com If you want more information, please let me know. Given some time, I can come up with much more information for you. Derdriu Guildmistress of the Herbalist Guild in the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Aethelmearc Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:26:37 -0800 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - spices vs. herbs? Hi all from Anne-Marie The strict definition is that if its from a leaf, its an herb, and if its from bark, seeds, flowers, or a non-plant material etc its a spice. According to my reading, in the middle ages, herbs did indeed encompass things like swiss chard and spinach (this according to the lists of "herbs" we are giving in things lke Charlemagnes _de Villis_ and other period gardening lists). And this list isn't limited to culinary herbs, either. Hope this helps... - --AM, who's 20th century mom says "if its cheap its an herb, if its expensive and imported, its a spice" :) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 14:32:30 PST From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net> Subject: SC - Fw: [Mid] Tansy Thought this had some useful information for us all. - ---------- : Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 03:46:31 : From: Sarah Lane-Dorrance : To: Middlebridge : Subject: [Mid] Tansy : : >Last year was my first Pensic. I had heard that there is often a high : >presence of undesirable insects, but was lucky not to have many last year. : >Something to consider as a repellent for inside your tents is bunches of : >tansy. It is a better repellent than pennyroyal. Even flies don't like the : >odor and it's not unpleasant for humans. : : Bunches of tansy and pennyroyal (I love the minty smell of pennyroyal!) : work great as a fragrant bug repellent...a caveat, however: : : While the herbs can be ingested if one is careful (tansy, in small : quantities, is a good tonic, being a bitter herb used to cleanse the body : of impurities; small amounts of pennyroyal can be good for the digestion). : HOWEVER - both herbs are potential abortifacients. Pregnant women should : NEVER ingest them! Even essential oils might be volatile and dangerous. : Also, tansy can cause heart irregularities if taken in even a slight : overdose (I found this out the hard way) and one should never, ever, ever : ingest neat (pure) oil of pennyroyal, or even diluted oil of pennyroyal in : quantities larger than, oh, a drop or two at most. Oil of pennyroyal is : highly volatile and toxic; it is a poison; it has caused deaths. Pennyroyal : is in fact a very strong herb and needs to be used with caution. NEVER use : oil of pennyroyal except for external use unless you happen to have the : poison resistance of a Borgia prince. : : BTW, pregnant women should also avoid black and blue cohosh root. Blue : cohosh especially is bad. It is used to treat amennorhea. This means that : it too will kill your baby in the womb and cause you to expel it. At the : very least it can potentially cause birth defects. Stay away! : : In general, pregnant women need to exercise as much care with herbs as they : would with ordinary medications. Modern people, used to refined pills, : forget that herbs are often quite potent. In particular, many of the herbs : used in medieval cooking (angelica, myrrh, artemisia...) have medicinal : properites. You are unlikely to find them in modern cooking, because modern : people find the taste too strong or bitter, but when using a medieval : recipe, look up the spices in a good herbal first. : : Any pregnant woman should have a copy of a herbal (preferably a herb : encyclopaedia that is up to date; I don't recommend Culpeper's, it has some : good information but also a lot of out-of-date information). This is useful : if she is a big fan of herbal tea, or if she uses a lot of arcane spices in : her cooking, or if she is a herbalist (in which case, she probably already : has a herbal). most Celestial Seasonings teas, et al are not dangerous, but : it never hurts to check. If any herb is listed as a potential abortifacient : or strong toxin, she should avoid it. : : I am hoping to start trying to get pregnant next year, after I have my : master's, so I'm trying to do lots of research. as it is, I do know which : herbs are really strong abortifacients (and poisons). Many women are not : aware of the toxicity of certain plants. Plants are powerful. : : Sarah Lane-Dorrance/Iseut la Gaunt-Roussie, called Midori : ICQ #3022977 : LadyJessica at internetphone.com Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:34:57 -0500 From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Subject: Re: SC - need info on common medieval herbs _The Medieval Garden_, by Sylvia Landsberg, Thames & Hudson, 1995. ISBN 0-500-01691-7. Thames & Hudson, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, NY 10110. This book is probably available from your local library. It's a fine book, has good illustrations, and will make good reading for you as well as a nice demo prop. Allison allilyn at juno.com Master Chirurgeon, Companion des Lindquistrings, Princess' Order of Courtesy Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:46:24 -0400 From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King) Subject: Re: SC - need info on common medieval herbs The book "Herbs for the Mediaeval Household" by Margaret B. Freeman published by the Metropolitan Museum of Art covers some very well known medieval herbs, and has them sectioned off into Herbs for Cooking, Herbs for Healing, Herbs for Poisoning Pests, and Sweet Smelling Herbs. It is also laid out with period woodcuts of all of the plants (and of gardens, preparations, etc.) and I take it with me to demos just because it is a pretty book on the topic. Good Luck, Mistress Christianna MacGrain,OP, Meridies Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 02:17:42 -0500 (CDT) From: kgarner1 at ix.netcom.com (Kirsten Nicole Garner) To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Spices >(3) chervil (sp?) > >If anyone has information on what exactly they are I would be interested >in hearing it. Further to other answers here, chervil is amazingly easy to grow. I just planted some and it sprouted within a week. It's only pot-planted and I keep it in a window. It's doing fine. I recommend using it fresh and only putting it into a dish at the last moment. It loses its flavour really quickly when it's cooked. You can get the seeds almost anywhere - I picked mine up at Home Depot. Lady Julian ferch Rhys Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:14:41 EDT From: LRSTCS <LRSTCS at aol.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Spices Do you have a Krogers in your area? I've gotten chervil there but it was $4.00 for a tiny bottle. You can grow it easily in the spring or early summer, check your best nursery in the herb section, you can by a whole plant for less. It's similar to parsley and has the same growing habits. It has a slight minty flavoring to me. You could use parsley and just crumble a dried mint leaf for about the same flavor. Lady Maya Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:54:21 From: Sheron Buchele/Curtis Rowland <foxryde at verinet.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Spices >(3) chervil (sp?) Also known as French Parsley. It has a fresh taste with a hint of anise. You could use parsley and grind up a bit of fresh anise seed. Or you might sub in some fresh basil. BTW, this is not an herb that dries well. Grow it fresh, use it with wild abandon, and mourn when the frost comes. It also does not freeze at all well. I sub the other things mostly. Mistress Leonora formerly Calontir Unser Hafen, Outlands Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:45:39 -0400 From: Becky Needham <betony at infinet.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Spices > OK! My question is: Where can I find such a catalog? We've been > looking for sources for seeds for spices, etc. for a while, but haven't > found any. Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Tarja Rahikkainen You can find two very good magazines about herbs that are stuffed with ads for catalogs, et al, and you can usually find these at your larger groceries. They are "Herb Quarterly" and "Herb Companion" (which I think is the better of the two.) Bet [Submitted by: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>] From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net> To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG Subject: HERB - Recommended book: The Herbal Arts Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:59 AM _The Herbal Arts: A handbook of Gardening, Recipes, Healing, Crafts & Spirituality_ by Patricia Telesco. Citadel Press, 1998. $12.95 paperback. ISBN: 0-8065-1964-9. My acquaintance with Patricia Telesco is through her new age/pagan books. This volume, however, is very light on the 'spirituality' and heavy on the practical herbalist skills. The author, from Buffalo NY, says that she used to be in the SCA but no longer has enough time, and she is an excellent researcher. I'm only 1/2 way through this book but I'm already impressed right out of my socks. It's worth the $12.95 just for the section on Herbal Artistry, which gives base recipes/directions for everything from beers, meads and liqueurs to creams, compresses, and moisturizers. There is also an extensive section (the back of the book says more than 130) of herb profiles. Not all of the standard herbs are covered, but a number of non-standard ones are, including pumpkin, carob, and oak. Folk names, history, folklore/superstition/magical uses, medicinal users, culinary/crafts uses, and gardening/habitat, as well as other things like the language of flowers, are given for each herb. Several recipes/redactions are given for each, and comparative historical material is featured: "contrary to Hippocrates' claim, the Arabs believe mint improves virility. In the language of flowers, it represents virtue. This is rather amusing, considering that the herbalist Culpeper says that mint stirs up bodily lust"! Though not a primary source, this is an excellent secondary/tertiary source. So far, the only part of her work that I disagree with is her definition of decoction, which is a vexed question anyway (do you boil the material in the water for a decoction or just steep it longer?). The 'spirituality' aspect doesn't seem to me to be obtrusive, but as I said the base recipes section is definitely a great help when concocting crafts... Jadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental; HERMS Cyclonus), mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:21:27 EST From: DianaFiona at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Midol VICTORIA.DAVIS at aeroquip.com writes: << The active chemical (at least one of them) in aspirin is salicylic acid*. In nature, this chemical is derived from white willow bark. If you want a period "cure" for headaches and other minor pains, you can either chew the bark from a white willow tree or make a tea of it. >> You had to go and hit one of my hot buttons--herbs! ;-) There are actually a number of plants that contain salicylic acid, although the only one I seem to be able to come up with off the top of my head is Queen-of-the-Meadow. White willow, however, *is* about the most potent of the choices, as I recall. If anyone is *really* interested, there was a good article on herbal "aspirin" in an issue of Herb Companion or Herb Quarterly a few years back. Had a pretty good history of the development of the drug, I believe, and possibly some info on period uses of willow and such........... Ldy Diana Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:04:44 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com> To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: Medieval Plant names-Book This might interest some of you: Tony Hunt, Plant names of Medieval England, still in print I believe Mel Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:40:33 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: Plant names of Medieval England A few people asked for more info off list so ISBN 0859912736 published1989(and 1994 I think) Plant names 1000-1500. It is Literally that a list of Medieval names their modern (English) names the Latin names (ie Plantago coronopus) and so on. It is very Acedemic, no pics or interesting titbits, but if you are after pure knowledge it is very interesting. At GBP50 it is pretty expensive and should be readiliy avaliable through a library (I got my copy there) Mel Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:01:14 -0600 From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Early British Plant Names As a note, another interesting source of early British plant names is in: Storms, G. Anglo-Saxon Magic. The Hague: Martinus Nijhoff. 1948.=20 There is a nice glossary in the back that lists the Anglo-Saxon plant names (in Old English) with their modern equivalents and scientific names. Of course the body of the book discusses Lacnunga and the Leech-book, both of which contain many herbal-magical recipe/spells. Other related works that folks may find interesting: Rudolf Grewe, An Early XIII Century Northern-European Cookbook,* in Proceedings of A Conference on Current Research in Culinary History: Sources, Topics, and Methods. Published by the Culinary Historians of Boston, 1986. Bonser, Wilfred. The Medical Background of Ansglo-Saxon England: A Study in History, Psychology and Folklore. London: Wellcome Historical Medical Library. 1963. Meaney, Audrey L. Anglo-Saxon Amulets and Curing Stones. BAR British Series 96. 1981. [Contains information about herbal amulets as well,] Gunnora Hallakarva Herskerinde Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:04:08 -0500 From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net> Subject: SC - Fw: HERB - Decent Beginners Book From: Warren & Meredith Harmon <corwynsca at juno.com> To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG <herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG> Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 4:19 PM Subject: HERB - Decent Beginners Book >Hello! I was perusing my mother's herb book collection, and I found a >very good, practical book for beginning herb people (like me!). It's >"The Complete Book of Herbs: A practical guide to cultivating, drying, >and cooking with more than 50 herbs". By Emma Callery, Courage Books (a >subsidiary of Running Press out of Philadelphia, PA), ISBN 1-56138-351-1, >Library of Congress # 93-85549. (No price given, and Mom's not talking! >She either picked it up at Border's, or at the Rodale sale - those are my >guesses.) It originally comes out of Quintet Publishers in London. The >first section deals with how to cultivate herbs, with all sorts of >growing tips; the next section is all about garden layouts - what herbs >to put with what - and most of the designs (including the two Celtic >knots!!) are from the 16th & 17th centuries. I count about 20 herb >layouts, with tips for central displays (sundials, beehives, fountains, >stone columns, etc.). The next section is all sorts of craft projects to >do, including drying tips: herb balls, posies, various potpourris, >bridesmaid's posies (not documented, but they talk about a "long >tradition in the Mediterranean"), lavendar wands, etc. The last section >is the listing of the 50 herbs, with subsets on history (they drop hints >throughout - "English mallow features in a 2nd century herbal", >"chamomile was mentioned in both Gerard's and Culpeper's herbals"), >identification, cultivation, how to use. Easch entry has a photograph >closeup of the herb, and most have pictures of the herb growing in a >garden. Also, there are recipes scattered throughout, and most look old >(I can't vouch for their periodicity). One's for chamomile cleansing >milk, another's for marigold wine, and marinated smoked fish. Some >recipes are newer, like potato salad with horseradish, and tarragon >chicken. > Anyway, I hope this helps! > >-Caro Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:28:01 -0500 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again) Hello! Tansy flowers were all I could obtain at the time. Please note, tansy (the entire plant, including the seeds) is a medicinal herb, which may cause abortion or death if taken in sufficient quantity. Here are some web pages with more information: http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/t/tansy-05.html http://www.healthlink.us-inc.com/publiclibrary/nat_lib/htm-data/htm-herb/bhp746 .htm http://www.vitamincity.com/herbs.htm http://alternativmedicin.se/Sidor/Vax-140.html http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/bloodherb.html This is why I suggested using an alternative bittering agent in the recipe. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:56:52 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again) TANACETUM (Tanace'tum) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ DESCRIPTION: This hardy perennial, commonly called Tansy, has been used over the centuries for treating various medical ailments and was traditionally used as an insect repellent. The leaves and flowers were once added to Lenten pancakes to give a bitter flavor that was meant to remind diners of suffering and sacrifice. Tansy can be toxic. Never eat it in large amounts or drink strong tisanes made from it. This lanky plant grows wild throughout Europe and has escaped from cultivation in North America. It grows 3 to 4 feet high and has finely divided, feathery leaves. After mid-summer, it bears flat clusters of many small yellow flowers resembling buttons; they bloom for many weeks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ POTTING: Young plants are transplanted outdoors after there is no danger from frost. They are grown in full sun and regular garden soil. Place purchased plants in the garden from late summer through fall. Cut off freshly opened flowers. Dried flowers and leaves can be used in potpourris or layered between clothes to repel insects. You can make a weak tisane. Cut and hang the long flower stems for everlasting flowers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PROPAGATION: Seeds should be started indoors, early in the spring and eventually transferred to the garden. The clumps can be divided in the fall and spring and replanted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ VARIETIES: T. vulgare (the common Tansy) & variety crispum (smaller, more finely divided foliage); T. Herderi (rare dwarf w/ silvery foliage). Ras Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:58:56 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again) Common Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) Sunflower Family (Asteraceae). Flowering: July-September. Habitat: Roadsides and edges of fields (escaped from gardens). Height: 2-3' (60-90 cm) Range: Throughout. For centuries this plant was used medicinally to cause abortions, with sometimes fatal results. The bitter tasting leaves and stem contain tanacetum, an oil toxic to humans and animals. The fresh young leaves and flowers, however, can be used as a substitute for sage in cooking. Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:17:57 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - curry leaves? nannar at isholf.is writes: << Curry leaves (Murraya koenigii) which we are discussing here and the herb >known as 'curry' are 2 different plants entirely. They are not interchangeable >in cookery. Sure about that? >> Yes, "From a plant native to southern Asia, this fragrant herb looks like a small, shiny lemon leaf and has a pungent curry fragrance. Quote Epicurious Food site." This plant is not the same thing as the plant described by someone else on the list as a curry plant which had needle-like leaves. <<Every book and source Ive consulted only mentions one herb, which is curry leaves (Murraya or Chalcas koenigii). However, my Indian ingredients book says it can be either a shrub (or even a windowsill plant) or a 6 meter high tree, but it is still the same plant. >> There are two different plants that are referred to as 'curry plants'. One is Murraya koenegii which is the curry leaf plant that is used in Indian cooking and as a cooking herb. This is a small tropical tree which can grow up to 6 feet in height in its natural habitat. It is not hardy in northern gardening zones. The other so-called 'curry plant' is Helichrysum angustifolium which smells like the curry leaf but is not used in cooking. It has leaves similar to pine needles or, more closely thyme leaves. This is most often the plant that people grow in their herb gardens. <<Curry powder is something entirely different,...>> Correct. Each Indian recipe has it's own particular blend of spices. Somewhere along the way, an enterprising businessman decided to standardize this blend and market it as 'curry powder.' Most pre-made curry powders are unbalanced and produce foul tasting food although I do have a commercially produced Jamaican curry powder that is a very nice blend which I use in specific personal non-Indian dishes for a touch of the exotic occasionally. Anyway, the curry leaf that is similar to lemon leaves in appearance is the culinary herb. That plant which has the needle-like leaves is not the culinary herb. << Nanna >> Ras Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:09:16 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - spikenard agora at algonet.se writes: << But the question is: is it a root from Indien or is it the Spanish "nardo", a fleshy and bitter flower? >> a Himalayan aromatic plant (Nardostachys jatamansi) of the valerian family from which spikenard is believed to have been derived Spikenard itself is described as an 'ointment'. Go figure. Ras Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:28:35 -0700 From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net> Subject: Re: SC - spikenard I have attached (below) the entries on "spignel" and "spikenard" (incomplete as they are) from the glossary of spice names I am working on writing. It would seem that Spikenard is usually the root etc. of "Nardostachys jatamansi", but may on occasion be "Meum athamanticum". We sell the jatamansi (which is certainly what is meant in 90% of the references, going back to Roman times, but haven't found a source of the meum yet (anyone know one?). I'd be very interested in experiences, recipes, and comments from people who have used spikenard. We have only recently added it to our stock, and I haven't got around to doing much testing yet. Francesco Sirene David Dendy / ddendy at silk.net partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene at silk.net Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/ SPIGNEL [English 1579; "spignale" 1502 (OED2 "Spignel")] Also known as "meum" or "baldmoney". "The aromatic root of the umbelliferous plant Meum athamanticum, used, when dried and ground, in medicine as a carminative or stimulant, or as a spice in cookery." (OED2 "Spignel") This was used in some spiced wine concoctions (viz. "1502 Arnolde Chron. (1811) 188 Take cloues and gelofre, . . gynger and spignale, . . and temper hem with good wyne." OED2 "Spignel") It may on occasion have been used as SPIKENARD, particularly where the recipe calls for "spykenard de Spayn" (Hieatt and Butler 1985, p. 143), as spignel was on occasion known as as "spygnal of Spaine" and Turner's 1562 Herbal says it "peraduenture was ones called Spiknard." (OED2 "Spignel") SPIKENARD [English c.1350; from the late or medieval Latin spica nardi, rendering the Greek (also ) (OED2 "Spikenard")] (1) "The source of the true or Indian nard is now identified as Nardostachys jatamansi, a plant of the family Valerianacae, the fibrous root-stocks or 'spikes' of which are still collected in Bhotan and Nepal." (Encyclopdia Britannica 1932, vol. 21, p. 216) Flckiger and Hanbury confirm that Indian Nard is the rhizome of Nardostachys Jatamansi DC., and is one of several substances known under the name of sumbul, an Arabic word signifying an ear or spike. (Flckiger and Hanbury 1879, p. 312) The ointment made from the plant is said to have gone under the name of sinbul Hindi or Indian spike. (Walker 1957, p. 196) Jatamanshi is mentioned as a spice in Indian sources of the era 400-200 B.C. (Achaya 1994, p. 37) The perfume is actually in the lower hairy stems (the indian name jatamansi refers to the shaggy hair, or 'ermine tails', covering the stems). These are tied together by the roots. (Walker 1957, p. 196) It is stated to still be sold today [1957], as in New Testament times, in alabaster boxes which preserve the essential perfume. (Ibid.) As an aromatic ingredient in costly perfumes and unguents of the Romans and the Middle Eastern peoples of classical times, spikenard was highly prized. "The ointment prepared from it is mentioned in the New Testament (Mark xiv. 3-5; John xii.3-5) as being 'very costly,' a pound of it being valued at more than 300 denarii (over 10 [work out modern equivalent value, based on wages]). This appears to represent the prices then current for the best quality of nard, since Pliny (H.N. xii, 26) mentions that nard spikes reached as much as 100 denarii per lb." (Encyclopdia Britannica 1932, vol. 21, p. 216) The spice appears in Roman sources under several variant names: the late 4th or early 5th century cookbook of Apicius has nardostachyum and spica Indica (Apicius 1958, pp. 56, 146, 164, 184, 211) In the Excerpts of Vinidarius, an Ostrogoth living in North Italy in the fifth or sixth century, his "Brevis Pimentorum" ("List of Condiments") includes both spica indica and spicanardi, suggesting that the two are not precisely the same thing. (Apicius 1977, p. 234; Apicius 1984, p. 282) (2) Garcia da Orta, a Portuguese physician and apothecary who spent 35 years (from 1534 on) at Goa in India, "verified that the spikenard of the ancient Greeks was Cymbopogon schoenanthus, rosha grass that grew on the banks of the Ganges." (Achaya 1994, p. 169) This, formerly designated Andropogon SchSnanthus L., is a grass of Northern and Central India, which yields by distillation the oil known as Rsa Oil or Oil of Ginger Grass. (Flckiger and Hanbury 1879, pp. 725-726) (3) See SPIGNEL, which may on occasion have been meant, particularly when "Spykenard de Spayn" is referred to. (4) "Ploughman's Spikenard" (1597 OED2 "Spikenard") is Inula conyza (formerly assigned to the genera Baccharis and Conyza), a sweet-scented shrubby plant which grows wild in Britain. It was used medicinally, and as a garland plant, but no mention is made of culinary use. (Gerard 1994, p. 183) (5) There are several other plants which have acquired the name spikenard, but which will not have been meant during the period covered here. Aralia racemosa is known as American spikenard or great spikenard, but it is a North American plant and there is no evidence of its use before 1600 (it is now sold by herbal suppliers, in North America at least, simply as "spikenard", so buyers would be wise to check the botanical name of what they are buying). Another species of the same genus, Aralia nudicaulis, as well as being called wild sarsaparilla is also known as wild spikenard and small spikenard, but is