herb-mixes-msg - 12/14/06 Period herb mixes. NOTE: See also the files: spice-mixes-msg, murri-msg. herbs-msg, herb-uses-msg, spreads-msg, sauces-msg, za-atar-msg, p-herbals-msg, gums-resins-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:42:52 -0500 From: johnna holloway To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb mixtures Barbara Wheaton has one that's from Liure fort excellent de cuysine 1555. It's in Savoring the Past. Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis Huette von Ahrens wrote: > One of my apprentices has asked me if there are > period culinary herb mixtures, like "Bouquet > garni" or "Italian herbs" that you will find in > modern stores. > > The only one that I know of is Vertgay. Do any > of you know of any other documentable herb > mixtures? > > I am not asking about Powdre Douce or Powdre > Fort, whice are spice mixtures. I would like > those based on herbs, mostly. > > Huette Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:15:31 -0800 (PST) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb mixtures To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org I found a mention of it in Cindy Renfrew's Glossary: vertgay (French) =3D Bright green (the literal meaning is 'gay green', referring to a mixture of green herbs and saffron used to colour a dish. Also 'yellowish green' or 'clear green' (von Wartburg). (Viandier) As you can see, the term is used in Viandier and in Menagier de Paris. Thomas Scully talks about it in his book on Viandier. >From Menagier: BROUET VERT D'OEUFS ET DE FROMAGE. Prenez percil et un pou de frommage et de sauge et bien pou de saffren, pain tremp=E9, et deffaites de pur=E9e de pois ou d'eaue boulie, broyez et coulez: et aiez broy=E9 gingembre deffait de vin, et mettez boulir; puis mettez du frommage dedens et des oeufs poch=E9s en eaue, et soit vert gay. - Item, aucuns n'y mettent point de pain, mais en lieu de pain convient lart. >From Viandier: BROUET VERTGAY. Cuisiez tel grain comme vous vouldrez en vin et en eaue et en boullon de beuf, et de lart pour luy donner goust, puis convient bien frioler vostre grain; puis affinez gingenbre, saffren, persil, ung pou de sauge qui veult, et des moyeulx d'oeufz tous cruz, et du pain tout pass=E9 parmy l'estamine, deffait de vostre boullon; et i fault ung pou de verjuz et de bon froumage qui veult. UNE FROIDE SAUGE. Prenez vostre poulaille et la mettez cuire en eaue, puis la mettez reffroidier, et puis broyez gingenbre, fleur de canelle, grainne et girofle, sans couller, puis broyez pain, persil, et sauge, et ung pou de saffren en la verdeur, qui veult, pour estre vertgay, et le coulez par l'estamine; et aucuns y coullent des moyeulx d'oeufz cuis durs, et deffaictes de vinaigre, et despeciez vostre poulaille par moitti=E9e, par quartiers, ou par membres, et mettez par platz, et la saulce dessus. Et, se il y a eu des oeufs durs, despeciez par morceaulx au coustel et non mie =E0 la main. BROUET VERTGAY D'ANGUILLES ESCORCH=C9ES OU ESCHAUD=C9ES. Mettez cuire en vin et en eaue, et puis broyez pain, persil, saffren bien pou, en la verdeur pour le faire vertgay, et le destrempez de vostre boullon, et puis broiez gingembre deffait de vostre verjus, et tout boullez ensemble; et y met-on de bon frommage despeci=E9 par bons loppinetz quarrez, qui veult. BROUET VERT D'OEFZ ET DE FROMMAGE. Prenez persil et ung pou de sauge et bien pou de saffren en la verdeur et pain tremp=E9, et deffaictes de pur=E9e ou d'eaue boullie, et puis gingenbre deffait de vin, et mettez boullir, puis mettez le frommage dedans et les oeufz, quant ilz seront pochez en eaue; et soit lyant vertgay; et aucuns n'y mettent point de pain, mais y mettent layt d'amendes. The consistant ingredients are parsley and saffron, but there are other green herbs used, such as sage. Johnnae previously mentioned that Barbara Wheaton has an herb mixture in her book "Savoring the Past". It is from a French cookbook printed in 1555. Unfortunately, while Wheaton does quote the original recipe, she doesn't translate it. I will post the recipe here for you tomorrow, when I have the book in front of me. Huette From: "Nancy Kiel" To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb mixtures Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:53:32 -0500 Scully's translation of Chiquart describes a bouquet garni as sage, parsley, hyssop and marjoram. Nancy Kiel Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:38:43 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger Subject: [Sca-cooks] Maire's herb blend....(relatively long) To: "SCA Cooks' List" Some time ago (beginning of August? Sometime in July?), I posted something about my herb garden, and a period recipe for an herb blend that I'd hoped to make sometime soon. Someone (Stefan?) asked for the recipe/source if I ever happened to find my copy. Well, I did, and I figured I'd post it this afternoon, since I'm pretty much stuck inside, trying to not inhale the smoke out there..... I do not have the actual book from which I took the recipe and redaction, so I can't give the page number, but according to my notes, it's from _Savoring the Past_ by Barbara Ketcham Wheaton (sp? my handwriting sucks....) The recipe itself is French. My notes give the original source as "Livre fort excellent de coysine (1555), ff 228r-v." I'll type the original, first, and then give Barbara's redaction. "Prenes persil effueille deux poignees mariolaine effueillee deux pugnees et demje saulge demi poignee ysope autant sariette autant sarpollet une poignee soulcye une poigness. Et quant cest pour faire farce aulains y metient soulcye et peude Basilicque. Elle seruent a tous potaigeaet les fault fair seicher enuiron la sainct Jehan baptiste." Wheaton's redaction: "1 c. parsley 1/4 c. sage 1/4 c. winter savory 1/4 c. wild thyme 1 and 1/4 c. marjoram 1/4 c. hyssop 1/2 c. pot marigold (calendula) petals 2 T basil (optional) On or about June 24th, pick the unsprayed herbs and pluck the leaves from the stems. Pluck the outer petals of the pot marigolds. A soft pastry brush is useful in dealing with the flower petals. Dry the herbs in the sun of indoors fairly near a gentle fan. Measure, mix, and store in a tightly closed container in a cool, dark, dry place. The 'soulcye' in the original recipe is _Calendula officinalis_, the pot marigold. It served in the Middle Ages and even later as a cheap substitute for saffron, since it was (and is) easily grown in the home garden. Our common marigolds, _Tagetes patula_ and _T. erecta_, were introduced into European gardens at the end of the sixteenth century from Mexico and are known, perversely, as French and African Marigolds." I should note that those are Ketcham-Wheaton's assertions about pot marigolds being used in the Middle Ages as a saffron substitute (not something I've personally run across, but then, I'm not the food research fiend that some of *you* are). I don't find it unreasonable, though, since Calendula petals make a pretty good natural dye (shades of yellow), and are food-safe. I also did not see anything in her book about what recipes this might have been used with, although her original source (not one with which I'm familiar, I'm afraid) might give more details or references. I've been able to grow all of the ingredients in my garden and herb pots, and I'm in a part of the US that has some pretty severe weather (hotter than Hades in the summer, nasty-cold in the winter, and respectably low on the humidity scale), so I'd think that most of us could probably do the same. My Calendula, though, didn't start blooming until late July. And I've found that you can't just wait until you need to deadhead the buggers (as with, say, the other kinds of marigolds, which I also grow, and am saving for a dyeing project), as the petals will fall off all on their own. So next year, I plan to grow a whole bunch of them! And some hyssop and savory! --Maire Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:38:34 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Maire's herb blend....(relatively long) To: Cooks within the SCA I did an article a couple years back that included a number of these. French and Italian Herb and Spice Mixtures. http://home.comcast.net/~iasmin/mkcc/MKCCfiles/FrenchHerbSpiceMix.html This was written for a general audience and I suggested that people might want to experiment with them while grilling during the summer. I thought that those not into medieval cookery might give them a try that way. Johnnae Sue Clemenger wrote: > Some time ago (beginning of August? Sometime in July?), I posted > something about my herb garden, and a period recipe for an herb blend > that I'd hoped to make sometime soon. Someone (Stefan?) asked for the > recipe/source if I ever happened to find my copy. snipped Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:50:18 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Maire's herb blend....(relatively long) To: Cooks within the SCA I suppose I ought to mention for clarity sake that Penzey's various spice and herb blends start with one teaspoon per pound of meat. Sprinkle or rub on the meat and cook or roast as desired. Those Instructions ought to work for these mixtures too. Johnnae Edited by Mark S. Harris herb-mixes-msg Page 5 of 5