ginger-msg - 11/29/09 Period use of the spice ginger. Period documentation. Sources. NOTE: See also the files: herbs-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, p-herbals-msg, seeds-msg, rue-msg, saffron-msg, garlic-msg, merch-spices-msg, spices-msg, gums-resins-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:24:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: SC - SC: Candied Ginger Concerning ginger: I tried making candied ginger with the result that it was tough and fibrous and nasty. I told one of my friends who make it all the time and she offered this information. The ginger you buy in the store is normally too old to candy well. You need to look for or obtain what is called green ginger, or very young ginger that has not become woody. It is the same shape as ginger but is whitish rather than brown and the shoots at the ends of the rhizome are pink and greenish (It really is pretty) It is also much milder. If you use the older ginger peel the outer brown skin and thin use the thin layer between the surface and the woodier center area, before it gets woody. You will have thin pieces but less woodiness. Ginger is relatively easy to grow. Buy a nice rhizome and plant it in a pot with sandy soil. Water. It should send up shoots and may flower. At any rate, any time you want ginger just dig down and snap off a section. It will overwinter on a windowsill in some areas. I recently bought a cinnamon ginger from a herb nursery and when I looked up gingerin Mrs. Grieves, it stated that all ginger is edible, just varying degreesof heat and flavor. I'm curious to see whether or not the ginger has a cinnamon flavor. Clare Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:59:01 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: Ginger << This is something I have wondered about a long time. .......But where would a 15th-century Englishman get fresh ginger root? >> Possibly as a potted plant? That's were mine came from. :-) In "The Medieval Kitchen" the author suggests letting fresh ginger lay around at room temperature for a few days to dry out a little but does not give a period source for this practise. I agree that candied ginger is probably the best bet although I also have no information indicating the use of candied ginger in 15th century England. There is also a possibility that the ginger was minced and dried before being imported and was available from the spice merchant in this form. <> Ras (Who always finds the hard questions undocumentable. ;-() Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:23:00 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: Ginger (was: SC - Will's- Recipe 1) > >This is something I have wondered about a long time. Minced ginger sounds >like fresh ginger root; I have found that if I try to mince ginger that has >dried out, it just falls apart to powdered ginger. But where would a >15th-century Englishman get fresh ginger root? I am pretty sure it wasn't >being grown locally. I have wondered if candied ginger might have been >available-- that will keep a long time and retains its structure. Does >anyone know of any references to candied ginger being available in the >14th-15th century or before? > >Elizabeth/Betty Cook Hello! Gerard (1633 edition) says "Ginger is most impatient of the coldnesse of these our Northerne Regions, as my selfe haue found by proofe, for that there haue beene brought vnto me at seuerall times sundry plants thereof, fresh, greene, and full of juyce, as well from the West Indies, as from Barbary and other places; which haue sprouted and budded forth greene leaues in my garden in the heate of Sommer, but as soone as it hath been but touched with the first sharp blast of Winter, it hath presently perished both blade and root... Ginger groweth in Spaine, Barbary, in the Canary Islands, and the Azores..." Nevertheless, there are recipes in the Harleian MSS., for example, which call for parings of ginger. The recipe for Peris in compost, Harl. MS. 4016, #97, says "...And then pare clene rasinges of ginger, & temper hem ij. or iij. daies, in wyne, And after, ley hem in clarefied hony colde, all a day or a night; And [th]en take the rasons [parings] oute of the hony, And caste hem to the peres in composte..." I'm wondering if there was a climatic change between the time the Harleian MS. was written (c. 1450), and the time Gerard wrote his book, which would have allowed ginger to be cultivated in England in the 15th c.? Cindy/Sincgiefu Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:33:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Gordon Subject: Re: Ginger (was: SC - Will's- Recipe 1) >Cindy wrote: > I'm wondering if there was a climatic change between the time the Harleian > MS. was written (c. 1450), and the time Gerard wrote his book, which would > have allowed ginger to be cultivated in England in the 15th c.? I have read of major climate changes, but don't remember when they were. I have confidence that someone on the list will remember :-). However, it's quite easy to grow ginger indoors in a pot in the winter. It's impressive to see the whole pot fill up with ginger root until there is practically no dirt left. It's also possible to hold it for long periods of time in root cellar type conditions such as you might dig up and hold over carrots. It's more inclined to mold than carrots though. So possibly some people dug it up and stored it and then put it back out in the late spring after frosts were over. Sharon Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:57:40 +1000 From: Robyn Probert Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ginger ( Elizabeth/Betty Cook wrote: ><< This is something I have wondered about a long time. .......But >where would a 15th-century Englishman get fresh ginger root? >> Ras wrote: >There is also a possibility that the ginger was minced and dried before being >imported and was available from the spice merchant in this form. and Cindy/Sincgiefu wrote: >Nevertheless, there are recipes in the Harleian MSS., for example, which >call for parings of ginger. The recipe for Peris in compost, Harl. MS. >4016, #97, says "...And then pare clene rasinges of ginger, & temper hem >ij. or iij. daies, in wyne, And after, ley hem in clarefied hony colde, all >a day or a night; And [th]en take the rasons [parings] oute of the hony, >And caste hem to the peres in composte..." I think it is more likely that the ginger was imported dried in slices - you can still buy both it and galingale this way. Grinding it up before drying and transport would reduce the potency of the spice, as it exposes more to air. It is also possible that in the Harlieian MSS recipie above, soaking the ginger strips in wine for 2 or 3 days would reconstitute it as well as mellow the flavour. IMO fresh ginger was possible, but dried seems more probable! Rowan Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:19:31 +0100 From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" Subject: SC - RE: Ginger Isn't there another possible interpretation? If fresh ginger could have been brought to Gerard from the West Indies, then it could survive a lengthy sea voyage, so it could have been imported from the Canarys, Azores or other parts of the Mediterranean in the 15th century (possibly even further afield); so the question is when it was being grown in those areas. I have a memory of being told it was imported in sand to keep it fresh and free from mould. On climate, this has been extensively discussed on h-costume. The evidence seems to be for a small change of maybe a degree or two (which seems to have affected Spain badly) for the 16th to early 20th centuries. The effect of this on clothes, crops, economic prosperity or the role of Western Europe in world history is very debatable! Caroline Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:42:12 -0400 From: waks at world.std.com (Jane Waks) Subject: Re: SC - ginger Phillipa wrote: >Can someone on the list advise me about fresh ginger. How does one store the >left over piece? Mine always goes moldy. What methods do you use to store >the left over bit? I peel it, cut it into moderate chunks (about the size of my thumb), and store it in a jar full of sherry. - --Caitlin Davies Carolingia, East Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:45:51 -0400 From: waks at world.std.com (Jane Waks) Subject: Re: SC - ginger >Does that have to be good sherry or will cooking sherry do? And how long >will it, so preserved, keep? ><< > I peel it, cut it into moderate chunks (about the size of my thumb), > and store it in a jar full of sherry. >> I used cheap sherry that was intended for drinking (not "cooking wine"), but still was only a couple dollars a bottle. I don't know how long it will keep: I've been using and replenishing regularly. The oldest piece in the jar has probably been there a year, maybe eighteen months. Except that the older pieces are a little darker in color, and smell more of wine, there doesn't seem to be any adverse effect of leaving them there. By the way, it's not in the fridge, just on a shelf in the kitchen. (The garlic in vinegar *is* in the fridge.) - --Caitlin D. Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 10:56:42 EDT From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - ginger << Phillipa wrote: >Can someone on the list advise me about fresh ginger. How does one store the >left over piece? >> I toss mine into the freezer. It keeps well, and grates better frozen. Wolfmom Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:01:58 EDT From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - ginger I just put it in a zip-loc and freeze it. No other prep. It keeps for about six months. Wolfmom Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:37:24 -0500 From: Daniel Myers Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] white ginger To: Cooks within the SCA On Mar 4, 2005, at 4:11 PM, Samrah wrote: > I have a friend not on this list who had a question about "white > ginger" as mentioned in the Platina. Apparently the recipe said > something to the order of "use as much as you can afford". The > translation said "white ginger", but her take on the Latin (she's had > a bit) is that it might have been the white parts of the ginger. > > Anybody have any ideas on this one? Is there a white ginger plant as > opposed to a regular ginger plant? There is a separate variety (species?) of ginger called "white ginger". It seems to grow more in the Asia-pacific region, and is regulated for import into the US because it's an invasive plant. I tried finding some to sell and had a hard time getting anyone to even send dried samples to Ohio. I have no idea how period modern white ginger is - it may not be the same plant that Platina is referring to. - Doc -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers) http://www.medievalcookery.com/ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:20:52 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] white ginger To: "Cooks within the SCA" White ginger is peeled ginger. Black or gray ginger is unpeeled ginger. Green ginger is the undried rhizome. White ginger is modernly used to refer to peeled Jamaican ginger which may also be bleached. That may not be what Platina is referring to as "gingiberis albi," but it is a good possibility the term white ginger is older than the modern usage. Bear Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:29:59 +0000 From: "Daniel Schneider" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] candied ginger To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Rannvaig wrote <<< I think the store bought is made from ginger much younger and more tender than we usually see here. Really young ginger doesn't have all those fibers and the flavor is fresher. Years back I grew some ginger as a house plant, but it never grew any new roots. >>> When you're buying ginger, if you want to candy it, or make sushi ginger, look for smaller hands with a thin non-wrinkly skin; it's younger, and isn't as fibrous. Dunno about elsewhere, but here in upstate NY, it's starting to show up in the supermarkets right now. Dan Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:26:28 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] candied ginger To: Cooks within the SCA Stefan li Rous asked many things about ginger. From my ginger article-- Candied /Ginger/ for Remembraunce. Two Versions by THL /Johnnae/ llyn Lewis. which just happens to be in something called the Florilegium "Harold McGee in /On Food and Cooking/ notes that much of the US market fresh ginger now comes from Hawaii where the harvest runs from December to June. So, believe it or not April through June is prime ginger season and a suitable time for candying ginger for spring events." and "Fresh young ginger root is available in Hawaii beginning in the summer with the more mature roots appearing in the winter season." The major thing to remember about ginger is that it can be harvested at different times for different purposes. And there are many, many ornamental gingers and varieties of ginger too that are grown in tropical countries. See http://www.gingerpeople.com/ for information on their products. They run two state-of-the-art ginger factories in Australia and California and offers over 80 ginger ingredients and finished products. Its factory in Australia specializes in sugar preserved ginger and crafts a product line of unparalleled quality. In California, The Ginger People manufacture both conventional and organic ginger juice. People swear that Australia does the best candied or preserved ginger these days. They have been growing it commercially since the early 1900's. http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/horticulture/4748.html There's an article here that talks about Australia and ginger. http://www.finecooking.com/articles/cooking-with-fresh-ginger.aspx see also: http://www.spice-trade.com/ginger.html Johnnae Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:22:39 -0400 From: Amy Cooper Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cracked ginger? almond milk To: Cooks within the SCA I would have liked to provide a link for Penzey's cracked ginger, but their site is not working for me from work. Here's a link to a different store's cracked ginger: http://www.savoryspiceshop.com/spices/gingercrckd.html It seems to be dried ginger in chunks, instead of ground fine. I found it first in the spice cupboard when looking for any sort of ginger on the weekend, so in it went. Ilsebet On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote: Ilsebet gave her redaction (creation?) for a compote recipe and said: <<< I used a lot of cloves, a good bit of mace, some allspice (to sub for cubebs), cracked ginger (from Penzey's), and some black pepper.>>> What is "cracked ginger"? I've heard of "candied ginger", "srystalized ginger" and "cracked pepper" but haven't heard of this before. Stefan Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:13:59 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] : Ginger. What I know is that ginger can vary in the marketplace. From my paper on candying ginger, "Harold McGee in On Food and Cooking notes that much of the US market fresh ginger now comes from Hawaii where the harvest runs from December to June. So, believe it or not April through June is prime ginger season and a suitable time for candying ginger for spring events." I find that quality and price differ from market to market. Johnna Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:39:26 -0500 From: Sharon Palmer To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] : Ginger. <<< I was told I shouldn't gather my Ginger until it blooms. Is there a reason to it? It has filled my basket I had it growing in and want to gather it before the freeze. It has not bloomed nor has it attempted to... it just spread everywhere lol. >>> http://www.tropicalpermaculture.com/growing-ginger.html A clump needs to be about two years old to flower. If you are growing ginger root in the garden you can start stealing little bits of it once it is about four months old. Just dig carefully at the side of a clump. (This "green ginger" does have a lot less flavour than the mature stuff, though.) The best time to harvest ginger is any time after the leaves have died down. Usually it takes eight to ten months to get to that point. Ranvaig Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:13:42 -0600 From: "Chass Brown" To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] : Ginger. <<< Can you grow it [ginger] indoors? Eduardo >>> Mine started indoors.. was outdoors all summer... spread and filled the pot its in.. I will save ita and transplant it this spring lol. I think i will let it get another year on it before i try anything.. I keep hearing they have gorgeous blooms. I live in Oklahoma, and I started it last winter in doors, early spring it was in my green house, then in a large hanging basket. Chass aka Charinthalis Del Sans Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:00:58 -0500 From: Elaine Koogler To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] : Ginger. We had access to ginger plants when I lived in Papua New Guinea. There were two type of blooms, both gorgeous...white and a kind of fuschia to red color. I would purchase the flowers at the local market, a kind of farmers market, and their fragrance served as an air freshener in our house! So they didn't just look pretty, they smelled wonderful without being obnoxious! Kiri Edited by Mark S. Harris ginger-msg 9 of 9