galangale-msg – 1/8/17

Period use of the spice galangale. Period documentation. Sources. Grinding it.

NOTE: See also the files: herbs-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, p-herbals-msg, seeds-msg, rue-msg, saffron-msg, garlic-msg, merch-spices-msg, gums-resins-msg, spice-mixes-msg, spices-msg, ginger-msg.

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: rousseaua at immunex.wa.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cubeb
Date: 22 Aug 95 14:44:40 PST
Organization: Immunex Corporation, Seattle, WA

Hey all from Anne-Marie in An Tir

Grains of Paradise and Galangale are both readily available here in Seattle.
My favorite herbal apothecary has whole galangale, which resembles a ginger
root you've let sit in the produce drawer of your fridge for about a century.
I've also found the powdered stuff (aka galinga) wherever they sell stuff for
Thai cooking. One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems
pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the petrified
whole stuff. Any suggestions?

--AM, who thinks one of the best things about living here is being able to get
bottles of rosewater in half liter sizes for really really cheap, and just
across the street from work! Hee.


From: jtn at newsserver.uconn.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cubeb
Date: 23 Aug 1995 04:31:32 GMT
Organization: University of Connecticut

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

Anne-Marie asks about galangale:
:              One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems
:pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the petrified
:whole stuff. Any suggestions?

Well, there are two approaches.

(1) You can chop it down to small pieces, then soak them with wine to help
break down the fibres (thus learning why the medievals always had you 
mix with wine before grinding), then put it in a mortar and pestle and
engage in some _serious_ upper body exercise.

(2) You can chop it down to small pieces and run it through a commercial
spice grinder.  Warning: it's been known to break the things.  I have
one that takes care of it, but they won't all.....

-- Angharad/Terry


From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cubeb
Date: 23 Aug 1995 07:16:55 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago Law School

> Hey all from Anne-Marie in An Tir
> 
> Grains of Paradise and Galangale are both readily available here in Seattle.
> My favorite herbal apothecary has whole galangale, which resembles a ginger
> root you've let sit in the produce drawer of your fridge for about a century.
> I've also found the powdered stuff (aka galinga) wherever they sell stuff for
> Thai cooking. One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems
> pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the
> petrified whole stuff. Any suggestions?

Dried whole galingale root breaks spice grinders. On the other hand, frozen
whole galingale root has about the texture of ginger.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
ddfr at best.com
ddfr at aol.com


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cubeb
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 22:47:07 EDT

rousseaua at immunex.wa.com writes:
> Hey all from Anne-Marie in An Tir
> 
> Grains of Paradise and Galangale are both readily available here in Seattle.
> My favorite herbal apothecary has whole galangale, which resembles a ginger
> root you've let sit in the produce drawer of your fridge for about a century.
> I've also found the powdered stuff (aka galinga) wherever they sell stuff for
> Thai cooking. One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems
> pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the petrifi
> whole stuff. Any suggestions?

	Respected friend:
	A nutmeg grater and a fighter who needs to work on his quads (or are
those tri's?). It takes time, but it does work. (Then again, I once got a 
quart of grain ground at Pennsic by offering fighters a chance to see how
hard it is to use a quern...)

                                Yours in service to the Society-
                                (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F. 
                                Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA
                                Una Wicca (That Pict)


From: dpeters at panix.com (D. Peters)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cubeb
Date: 31 Aug 1995 22:09:45 -0400
Organization: Panix

>rousseaua at immunex.wa.com writes:
>> My favorite herbal apothecary has whole galangale, which resembles a ginger
>> root you've let sit in the produce drawer of your fridge for about a century.
>> One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems
>> pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the petrifi
>> whole stuff. Any suggestions?

If you have a Thai grocery in your community {Wish I did [sniff :-(]--I just
moved}, you could skip the powder and the dried root entirely, and buy 
galangal root fresh.  You can peel it with a carrot peeler and slice it 
with a reasonably sharp knife; pieces of the fresh root can even be 
chewed and swallowed by human teeth and throats (my recipe for Tom Kha 
Kai says that fresh galangal is edible, although I prefer fishing them 
out of the soup because they are rather fibrous.)

I have used fresh galangal in my redaction of Browet Farsure, and it 
worked just fine.  Perhaps the "dried is stronger than fresh" caveat for 
herbs would apply here, too.  Pick up a fresh galangal root and see for 
yourself.

D.Peters
  

From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:24:56 -0700
Subject: SC - Re: Galangal

On 17 Apr 1997 22:04:26 -0600 "Mark Harris"
<mark_harris at quickmail.sps.mot.com> writes:
>Susan said on Tuesday, April 15,
>>I bought some at a Thai, Vietnamese grocery, 

>Was it powdered? I've found powdered galingale to be difficult to
>find.

Yes, powdered :: Galangal Powder, imported by STP Spices
product of Thailand, bought from the Viet Hoa Market for .69 for 28 g
(1 ounce)

Susan


From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:26:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: SC - Galingale

>At 11:26 AM +0000 5/2/97, Jessica Tiffin wrote:
>>I'm having huge problems laying my hands
>>on cubebs, grains of paradise and the like.  Would anyone happen to
>>know alternative, preferably Indian, but at a pinch Latin names for
>>these spices?  I found galingale lurking in an Indian shop disguised
>>as something called galangal, and am hoping others may exist.
>
>Also sold as galangas, especially in thai groceries.
>
>Aphrodisia in NY sells by mail and over the phone; I don't know if they
>take foreign orders. Their phone number is in the Miscellany, near the
>beginnning.
>
>David/Cariadoc
>http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

It can also be called "Galinga". A friend found some in NYC at an Indian
Spice Shop for me and it was FRESH! What a wonderful Sauce Galantine that
made! She still has a nugget frozen in her freezer for Galingale Liqeur
(sauce is from To the King's Taste, and no, I can't lay my hands on it at
the moment). The gist of the sauce is broth, pulverised Galingale, spices,
thickened with breadcrumbs. I'll try to rummage for the recipe in the next
few days, if anyone is interested. I recall it being so simple that I was
able to "eyeball" it at the event with good results. It's excellent for the
meat sauce at the end of the feast, when the diners THINK they can't
possibly eat any more. It really does sharpen the appetite as "advertised".
The "giving courage"  part (a supposed effect of galingale) I can't vouch
for, having no excuse to be brave after partaking!

Aoife (also rummaging for her totally non-period original Galingale Liqeur
recipe)


Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:21:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANN1106 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - spice info

Galangal (galanga root, galingale) can be found in many Asian markets in the
US - have seen it in Chinatown in NYC and in Philadelphia.  It is sometimes
referred to as Thai ginger, Laos ginger or Siamese ginger.  The powdered form
is usually called Lao ginger.

Audrey


Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:57:38 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Galingale

> From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>
> BTW John Hervey gives the The 'Fromond' List of Plants of c. 1500, a list of
> plants grown in England (including artichokes!) and also including
> galingale, which did surprise me, as I assumed it was imported.  I'd be
> interested in comments.
>
> Caroline

Danger, Will Robinson!!!

Er, what I really mean to say is that the European galingale is a
tuberous plant with knobby roots, named for its vague resembance to the
Indonesian plant rhizome, the galingale that was used as a spice in
period...the European plant that is known as galingale in English is
called, IIRC, souchet in French.

I will locate and provide a more specific reference when I can...

Adamantius


Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:15:37 EST
From: KKimes1066 <KKimes1066 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Galingale

It grows abundantly in the Thames, and is known as "Sweet Flag".
To reiterate an earlier statement.....
           DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!
Sweet flag is a suspected carcinogen. Don't use it. Whole root
Galangale can be had very cheaply from Penzey's Spice Catalog.
That is the real stuff, and you can get it with in one or two days if
need it desperately.

                             Percival Beaumont Esq-App


Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:07:30 -0400
From: "LHG, JRG" <liontamr at ptd.net>
Subject: SC - What is Galingale

From: Jenny Johanssen <johanssen at matnet.com>
>Excuse me for showing my ignorance - what is Gallingale?

Galingale is a spice related to ginger and subject to the same varients of
hot/sweet as ginger, in it various forms. It looks like ginger al little,
too. It's flavor is different, however, and has more "bite" and "savor". I
often combine the two to get that whole gingery range. It works well as a
hot spice OR a sweet spice. Do not bother with dried or powdered galingale
that is more than 6 months old. You may as well use ginger, since the
unique flavors have dissapeared by then. Some day I will get real fresh,
rather than fresh frozen galingale from NYC, if it's possible, so I can
taste the difference.

If none is available, you may substitute ginger if you must, but the end
result will be a pale comparison. I do not know why the use of galingale
dropped off at the end of our period. It's a real shame!

In period dishes were originally made from it with such names as Sauce
Galantine. These are highly flavored, sharp sauces that were said to give
you courage, valor, and honor (thus the word "Galant"). They were
traditionally served with red meats and fowl, and really do live up to
their reputation of restoring the appetite. Even if you are stuffed full,
you can still eat roast beef with a galantine sauce!

Aoife


Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:44:33 EDT
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - galingale uses?

stefan at texas.net writes:
<< Is there any use for the galingale that doesn't require grinding it? >>

Soaking in spirits for liqueurs; adding them to vinegars to make flavored
vinegars, adding them to spice bags....these are a few possible uses.

Ras


Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:57:34 +1000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: SC - Re: Galingale and verjuice.

Galingale is a rhizome which is closely related to ginger. It's botanical
name is Alpinia officinarum. It is a very common ingredient in Indonesian
food which is why you can buy it in Asian food stores.

Here in Sydney you can buy it fresh in any large supermarket/green grocer,
but for use in western medieval recipies you should buy it dried, preferably
in strips. Western medieval cooks did *not* have access to fresh galingale
and it tastes very different to the dry stuff, just as fresh and dried
ginger are totally different!

The powder gets old quickly, so dried strips are better. The coffee gringer
trick is what I use too, but I also cook with the strips, then remove them
before serving. The dried stuff is very cheap here.

Rowan
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Robyn Probert
Customer Service Manager                Phone +61 2 9239 4999
Services Development Manager            Fax   +61 2 9221 8671
Lawpoint Pty Limited                    Sydney NSW  Australia


Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:40:59 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: SC - Spices in Poland

In reading "Food and Drink in Medieval Poland" I came across some
interesting comments about some spices I had not heard before.

p41:
This paragraph is about the middle to late 1300s.
He mentions the importation of two sorts of galingale ("lesser",.
Alpina officinarum, and "greater", Alpina galanga).

Have other folks seen mention of two types of galingale? Which one
is the one sold today as galingale? both? Any idea what the differances
are?

All the spices in this list were apparently imported through Cyprus.

He also mentions Cypriot "monk's pepper" the seed of agnia or chaste
tree (Vitex agnus castus). "The pepper was added to monastic dishes to
suppress venery or sexual desire."

Anyone have any more on this or similar spices? I've got a little bit
on period aphrodisiacs. This is the first time I think I've heard of
a period spice being used to achieve the opposite effect.

Hmmm. Maybe that's the solution for the SCA-Cook's list baby boom? :-)
- --
Lord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas           stefan at texas.net


Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:45:43 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Spices in Poland

From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
>In reading "Food and Drink in Medieval Poland" I came across some
>interesting comments about some spices I had not heard before.
>
>p41:
>This paragraph is about the middle to late 1300s.
>He mentions the importation of two sorts of galingale ("lesser",.
>Alpina officinarum, and "greater", Alpina galanga).
>
>Have other folks seen mention of two types of galingale? Which one
>is the one sold today as galingale? both? Any idea what the differances
>are?

We carry both types of galingale. Greater or Java galingale  (southeast
Asia) is the milder of the two, perhaps like ature of ginger and
cardamon.  Lesser galingale (southern China) is much sharper in flavour,
like a combination of ginger and pepper. Greater galingale would seem to
have been the preferred variety in medieval Europe, though both were used.

>He also mentions Cypriot "monk's pepper" the seed of agnia or chaste
>tree (Vitex agnus castus). "The pepper was added to monastic dishes to
>suppress venery or sexual desire."

We have monk's pepper if you want to try some (it's not in the web
catalogue; we use it in a spice mixture -- but if anyone wants some e-mail
and we'll quote you a price)

Yours spicily,
Francesco
David Dendy / ddendy at silk.net
partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene at silk.net
Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/


Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:18:31 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Spices in Poland

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Have other folks seen mention of two types of galingale? Which one
> is the one sold today as galingale? both? Any idea what the differences
> are?

Greater galingale has a larger cross-section (i.e. bigger slices) and awhitish flesh similar to ginger, while lesser galingale is smaller andwith a reddish-orangey flesh. It would be hard to discuss flavor differences in writing... . Greater galingale is also listed in The Von Welanetz Guide to Ethnic ingredients with a bazillion alternative names I won't go into here, except to say that many of the alternative names are in European languages, while the alternative names for lesser galingale (at least the ones they list) seem to be strictly Asian languages. This leads me to suspect the galingale known in period Europe may well have been Greater Galingale. On the other hand, what every herb and spice store I've seen sells as galingale is kentjur or Lesser Galingale (the little red guys), I could be wrong about this. I haven't discussed this in detail with the people at Aphrodisia. It may be that both found their way into medieval Europe.

> All the spices in this list were apparently imported through Cyprus.
>
> He also mentions Cypriot "monk's pepper" the seed of agnia or chaste
> tree (Vitex agnus castus). "The pepper was added to monastic dishes to
> suppress venery or sexual desire."
>
> Anyone have any more on this or similar spices? I've got a little bit
> on period aphrodisiacs. This is the first time I think I've heard of
> a period spice being used to achieve the opposite effect.

Ummm, I understand saltpeter is/was famous for being added to prison food, especially baked goods and meat dishes, for precisely that effect. Basically it messes up your blood pressure, rendering um, hydrostatic pressure regulation, um, impossible. Impotence in a can. It probably also caused some fatal strokes, though, with excessive repeated use. Salt would do the same, but the amount required would be unpalatable unless you used very frequent small doses (which many people do in their ordinary diets anyway...)

Adamantius


Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:44:42 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Spices in Poland

troy at asan.com writes:
<< This leads me to suspect the galingale known in period Europe may well have been Greater Galingale.  >>

La Managier mentions several types of galingale and it's uses.

Ras


Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:38:18 -0400
From: "Sayyida Halima al-Shafi'i of Raven's Cove" <lkuney at ec.rr.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] galangale
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

I use (and sell) dried slices of galangale root and have no trouble
powdering it.  I put the slices into a Braun coffee mill and whizz it
up.  I then put it through a sifter and am left with a very fine powder
with which to flavor galantynes or anything else.

Sayyida Halima al-Shafi'i
Stronghold of Raven's Cove
www.lisasnaturals.com


Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:43:53 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangale
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Where to find fresh galangal:
I find it at the Berkeley Bowl - but they have an exceptional produce
section. It is also available in Thai markets (where it is called
kha). Southeast Asian markets - such as Vietnamese markets - might
have it - and those omnibus Asian markets may carry it fresh, along
with fresh turmeric (much nicer than dried), and some other
interesting Zingiberacea rhizomes, like kentjur/kencur and
kuntji/kunci ("c" in Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malayu is pronounced
like an American "ch" - the Dutch, who colonized Indoesia, wrote it
with "tj")

Dried galangal "chips":
In places that don't have fresh galangal, one can often find dried
galangal slices.

To use in Southeast Asian cooking, i'd suggest soaking them in warm
water until they are soft-ish, then adding them plus the water to
soups or "curries".

To use in Medieval recipes, well, the dry slices can be ground with
difficulty in an electric grinder. I'd suggest breaking the slices up
into smaller pieces before grinding. Left whole, they can be
resistant and cause your grinder to overheat.

Substituting:
While i feel confident that the Europeans didn't have fresh galangal,
i think fresh can be substituted for dried. Cut off the amount you'll
need from the rhizome, peel the piece, cut into match sticks, then
into match heads, and then smash with the flat side of your cleaver
or kitchen knife. You'll need a lesser volume of fresh, compared to
the dried.

Galangal powder:
It tends to loose its flavor, as any spice does, but i think galangal
loses it more rapidly than many. As with all spices, it should be
kept in a non-porous container, such as glass, with a *very* tightly
fitted lid, and kept in a cool, dark place - as should all spices and
dried herbs.

Dried herbs and spices should never be kept long-term near the stove.
In fact, they should never be kept out at all in glass jars, as light
will often cause them to loose color and heat from the stove or the
sun (or your heater or stove) will volatilize the flavorful oils,
causing them to lose flavor.

I have two lazy susans i keep side by side in a cupboard, one has all
the spices on it, the second herbs and flavorings, small containers
on top, larger containers below, in alphabetical order.

Urtatim, formerly Anahita
(yeah, i'm gonna register Urtatim, so i need to get used to using it)


Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 13:57:00 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangale
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorraorg>

Also sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:
> Where to find fresh galangal:
> I find it at the Berkeley Bowl - but they have an exceptional
> produce ection. It is also available in Thai markets (where it is
> called kha). Southeast Asian markets - such as Vietnamese markets -
> might have it - and those omnibus Asian markets may carry it fresh,
> along with fresh turmeric (much nicer than dried), and ome other
> interesting Zingiberacea rhizomes, like kentjur/kencur and
> kuntji/kunci ("c" in Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malayu is
> pronounced like an American "ch" - the Dutch, who colonized
> Indonesia, wrote it with "tj")

I find it frozen, in three or four fingers in a four-or-so-ounce bag,
at any of several "omnibus Asian markets", which in my area are
really Chinese markets with smaller sections representing other
Asiatic cultures' (mostly SE Asian, rarely much in the way of
Japanese or Korean stuff) needs.

I've seen it fresh, but not in any discernible seasonality, so it's
hard for me to predict when it'll be available. For me, it's easier
to buy the frozen roots and use them as needed: I almost always have
some on hand, and it doesn't really go bad before I can use it up.

To my mind, it tastes kinda like eucalyptus...

Adamantius


Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:38:39 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re:[Sca-cooks] galangale
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

At 23:54 -0800 2005-03-04, Chris Stanifer wrote:
>  I don't kno of any European recipes which call for galangal to begin 
> with

Four recipes in Viandier (c. 1390).

Thorvald


Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 23:07:21 -0500
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangale
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

James Prescott wrote:
> At 23:54 -0800 2005-03-04, Chris Stanifer wrote:
>>  I don't know of any European recipes which call for galangal to
>> begin with
>
> Four recipes in Viandier (c. 1390).
>
> Thorvald

Seven in de Nola; all but two of them are fish dishes.
-- 
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:34:35 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangale
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Mar 5, 2005, at 11:07 PM, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:
> Seven in de Nola; all but two of them are fish dishes.

Three in "Ein Buch von guter spise".
Nineteen in "Forme of Cury".
Seven in "Liber cure cocorum"
Three in "Libro di cucina/ Libro per cuoco"
Thirteen references in "Le Menagier de Paris"
Thirty-six in "Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books"
And one in "Wel ende edelike spijse"

The following link for more details (long URL):
http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?
term=galingale&file=vgs&file=foc&file=lcc&file=ldc&file=lib&file=lmdp&fi
le=tfccb&file=via&file=wel

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)


Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:47:20 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Galangal
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Can someone tell me the difference between Greater and Lesser Galangal? And,
> maybe, direct me someplace where I might obtain both varieties? It's
> becoming important in some recipes I'm looking over.
>
> Saint Phlip,

I can't help you with finding both spices.  I get galangal at a local health
food store and have yet to run across lesser galangal.

Greater galangal is Alpinia galanga.  Lesser galangal is Kaempferia galanga,
except that the term is also used for Alpinia officinarum.  A. officinarum
is commonly defined as galangal and is a common substitute for greater
galangal.  Presumably, lesser galangal does not have as bright a flavor as
greater galangal and is more bitter and medicinal.

This URL should bring you into lesser galangal on Gernot Katzer's Spice
Pages:

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/generic_frame.html?Kaem_gal.html

Bear


Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:34:33 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Galangal
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Phlip wrote:
> Can someone tell me the difference between Greater and Lesser  
> Galangal? And,
> maybe, direct me someplace where I might obtain both varieties? It's
> becoming important in some recipes I'm looking over.

I'm quite familiar with all three... (yes, i said three - see below)
from living in Indonesia and cooking Indonesian and Thai food.

-----

First, take a look at Gernot Katzer's Herb and Spice Pages for
photos, alternate names and spellings, and good info:

Greater Galangal, Alpinia galanga , often just Galangal:
http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/generic_noframe.html?Alpi_gal.html

Lesser Galangal, Kaempferia galanga:
http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/generic_frame.html?Kaem_gal.html

And as i suggested, there's a third in the family, called Fingerroot
or Chinese ginger in English:
http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/generic_noframe.html?Boes_pan.html

-----

Galangal/greater galangal (alpinia galanga) has a pleasant and
relatively mild, slightly resinous flavor, whether fresh or dried in
chips or slices. Dried galangal is better if soaked or simmered for
some time. The packaged powder has an even milder flavor that fades
fairly rapidly in storage.

Galangal is commonly used in Indonesian and Thai cooking. In Bahasa
Indonesia it is called "laos" or "lengkuas". And in Thai it is called
"kha".

-----

Lesser galangal, Kaempferia galanga, has a rather stronger and more
resinous, even camphorous, flavor than standard galangal.

It is somewhat less often used in Indonesian cooking. In Bahasa
Indonesia it is called "kencur" (the "c" has a "ch" sound), sometimes
written "kentjoer" or "kentjur" (Dutch influenced spelling). It is
rarely used in Thai cooking - it's called "Pra hom" in Thai.

-----

The third, fingerroot, is even more strongly camphorous than the
other two and somewhat bitter.

It is used in only a few specific dishes in Indonesian cooking and is
called in Bahasa Indonesia "temu kunci" (the "c" has a "ch" sound) or
"temoe koentji" (Dutch spelling). It is much more commonly used in
Thai cooking than in Indonesian cooking, and it is more commonly used
in Thai cooking than Kaempferia glalana is. In Thai it is called
"krachai"

-----

Ultimately your best sources for any of these are Pan-Asian markets,
Southeast Asian/Thai markets, and Dutch shops (since Indonesia was a
colony of the Netherlands). Around here (SF Bay Area) i can find all
three fresh, although (greater) galangal is by far the most common
and easiest to find.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:00:15 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Galangal
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Phlip wrote:
> Can someone tell me the difference between Greater and Lesser Galangal? And,
> maybe, direct me someplace where I might obtain both varieties? It's
> becoming important in some recipes I'm looking over.

OK - i've passed along info on three related roots... Now, what are
the recipes?

As for which one to use, Andrew Dalby in "Dangerous Tastes" posits
that galangal (greater galangal/Alpinia galanga) was the one called
for in Medieval recipes, but that since supply was sporadic and not
entirely reliable, other similar rhizomes (such as Kaempferia galanga
(kencur/lesser galangal) or Boesenbergia pandurata (temu
kunci/fingerrot)) may have been substituted for galangal if it didn't
arrive in a shipment.

When i'm cooking Medieval recipes i always use galangal
(laos/lengkuas/kha) since that was apparently the most common and the
preferred root.

If i'm cooking Indonesian or Thai food, i use the actual form called
for in the original recipe, since they all taste different and only
the right one will yield the right flavor.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:05:28 -0500
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangal
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,	SCA-Cooks
	maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>

<http://importfood.com/spga0402.html>
sells bottles of galangal powder for $3.40 per ounce.

www.shopping.com shows two companies selling Laos powder- galangal for
between $5 and $6 per 2oz bottles.

And, in the UK, there are lots of mailorder sites

toodles, margaret


Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 20:04:49 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangal
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< The trick is getting the galangal into a
powdered form that can be used in such a spice mixture.

Stefan >>>

http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/p-penzeysgalangal.html

Galangal Ground 1 lb. bag
$12.40

Johnnae


Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:45:02 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangal
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> it. The catch is the galangal. You can find out more about galangal
> in the link I give below. The trick is getting the galangal into a
> powdered form that can be used in such a spice mixture. Galangal is a
> root and generally when you find it, it will be in large chunks, up
> to about a quarter inch in size.

Penzey's Spices (www.penzeys.com) sells galangal in powdered form.
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 


Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:37:11 -0600
From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal
To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>
Cc: jason at grazecatering.com

I received this message today, which I will be placing in the
Florilegium. However, I was under the impression that "galingale" was
the same as "galanga or galangal", probably from, as Jason mentions,
comments from this list.

So can any one clarify this or refute one assertion or the other?

Stefan

<<<
From: 	  jason at grazecatering.com
Subject: 	Galingale
Date: 	January 10, 2007 4:59:08 PM CST
To: 	  stefan at florilegium.org

   First,
Thanks for providing a forum to exchange information about all things
medieval.  I would like to point out what seems to be a very glaring
(although understandable) error that is being taken as fact on your
site.  I am a chef  of a small catering business specializing in
globally-inspired hors d'oeuvres.  As a result, I have a tremendous
assortment of spices from all over the world, and always doing
research to find new "unusual" or "unknown" ingredients.  Lately I
have been doing a lot of research on medieval cuisine and cooking
techniques, which lead to my quest for galingale.  Many contributors
to florilegium are saying with authority that the spice "galingale"
mentioned in so many medieval recipes is the same as the spice
"galanga or galangal" used in southeast Asian cooking.  However, my
research indicates otherwise.  Galanga (kaempferis parviflora) is a
rhisome related to ginger, while galingale (cyperus longus) is a
sedge or type of grass native to the UK and other parts of Europe,
the root of which has been used for medicine and cooking for
centuries, if not millenia.  [See www.killerplants.com ]
I would be interested to hear what others think about this and if
anyone knows of a source for dried galingale.

Sincerely,

Jason Bartis  >>>
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
     Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas


Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:44:33 -0800
From: prescotj at telusplanet.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,	Stefan li
	Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Cc: jason at grazecatering.com

OED does indeed mention both under the "galingale" heading.  The
earliest citation the OED gives under the East Indian plant is
1000.  The earliest under the English sedge version (which is
said to have similar properties) is 1578.

I think it a good bet that most, though perhaps not all, period
references to galingale are to the (imported) East Indian spice.

Thorvald


Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:51:50 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>,
	jason at grazecatering.com

On Jan 11, 2007, at 12:37 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

> I received this message today, which I will be placing in the
> Florilegium. However, I was under the impression that "galingale" was
> the same as "galanga or galangal", probably from, as Jason mentions,
> comments from this list.
>
> So can any one clarify this or refute one assertion or the other?

As I'm understanding them, there are no mutually exclusive assertions
being made, and no refutation needed. There are plants found in the
far East, rhizomes related to ginger, used as a spice, known
collectively as galingale, distinguished as Greater and Lesser
galingale, used in the cookery of China and Southeast Asia,
particularly Indonesia, under names like galanga, kencur and laos. To
me, they taste a little like ginger and a lot like eucalyptus. This
is the galingale generally referred to medieval English recipes,
clearly seen as a spice (IOW, a flavoring to be used in small
quantities) and listed both in recipes and shipping records with
other valuable Eastern imports.

The sedge often referred to as galingale is indeed a European plant
that is edible, but as far as I know, its edible portion is more
tuberous and starchy. I believe this is the wild vegetable known in
English as galingale, but in French as souchet and amandes de terre.
It's used as food, yes, but although aromatic, not as a spice, and
not in the same way as the medieval English cook's galingale. I'd be
very interested in seeing evidence indicating that souchet is the
galingale referred to in, say, The Forme of Cury, because there's at
least a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that it is not; the
only evidence I have seen that suggests it might be is the mere fact
that this European plant exists and is called by a similar name
(maybe because the tubers look vaguely like the rhizomes); I'm
certainly not aware of any recipes that instruct the cook to go and
dig up some galingale from the kitchen garden, while there are
probably at least a hundred that list it in the same category as
ginger, pepper, grains of paradise, etc.

FWIW, the 1985 "American" edition of the Larousse Gastronomique has
an article about galingale, the sedge  (I pulled it out because I
recalled it having a neat little picture of it and everything, but
apparently I was mistaken on the photo thing; I know I've seen one
somewhere).

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:17:30 +1030
From: "Craig Jones" <drakey at internode.on.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> As I'm understanding them, there are no mutually exclusive assertions
> being made, and no refutation needed. There are plants found in the
> far East, rhizomes related to ginger, used as a spice, known
> collectively as galingale, distinguished as Greater and Lesser
> galingale, used in the cookery of China and Southeast Asia,
> particularly Indonesia, under names like galanga, kencur and laos. To
> me, they taste a little like ginger and a lot like eucalyptus. This
> is the galingale generally referred to medieval English recipes,
> clearly seen as a spice (IOW, a flavoring to be used in small
> quantities) and listed both in recipes and shipping records with
> other valuable Eastern imports.

I always thought that Galanga and laos were different beasts. From my days
in Thailand I remember Laos (Chinese Keys) as being long, white or pale
brown and finger like whilst Galanga was a larger root with a pink  
tinge.

Galanga reminded me of rattan with a really hot, sharp flavour... I love the
stuff, especially used in brewing... And it's a part of one of my commonly
made Thai dishes, Chicken and Coconut Milk Soup.

I only ever saw Laos used in cooking on the few times I went south... It was
a part of a fantastic Chilli crab (I assumed so as there was a basket of
them on the kitchen table) I had for breakfast, lunch and dinner cooking 24
hrs a day in a 44 gallon drum (master sauce style).  It was a bit eucalyptus
like but aussies as a rule aren't very sensitive to that flavour. All those
koalas we BBQ all taste like eucalyptus, don't you know ;)

Kenchur was something you saw rarely and had a non-hot but spicy flavour.
Had a reddish brown skin. Used to get slices in Fish soup from the
restaurant at the end of my street. Kinda of tangy with a taste hard to
describe, I swear almost violet like... But not... Kenchur was defiantly a
different spice to laos tho...

So we are talking about the same spices, yeah?

Drake - no 'drakies' lately... Unless you count the "wood stain explosion in
the face" incident...


Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:20:45 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 11, 2007, at 7:47 AM, Craig Jones wrote:

> I always thought that Galanga and laos were different beasts. From my days
> in Thailand I remember Laos (Chinese Keys) as being long, white or pale
> brown and finger like whilst Galanga was a larger root with a pink
> tinge.

It's my understanding that one is the Greater, and one the Lesser,
Galingale. I forget which is which, but yes, there's a reddish-
skinned one and a whitish one... to me, both taste a fair amount like
a Halls Eucalyptus Cough Drop. But as was pointed out, they've got
"camphor" in their name, so I'm not surprised as a certain resinous
quality...

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:09:41 -0500
From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
>>>>>> On Jan 11, 2007, at 12:37 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

> I received this message today, which I will be placing in the
> Florilegium. However, I was under the impression that "galingale" was
> the same as "galanga or galangal", probably from, as Jason mentions,
> comments from this list.
>
> So can any one clarify this or refute one assertion or the other?

As I'm understanding them, there are no mutually exclusive assertions
being made, and no refutation needed. There are plants found in the
far East, rhizomes related to ginger, used as a spice, known
collectively as galingale, distinguished as Greater and Lesser
galingale, used in the cookery of China and Southeast Asia,
particularly Indonesia, under names like galanga, kencur and laos. To
me, they taste a little like ginger and a lot like eucalyptus. This
is the galingale generally referred to medieval English recipes,
clearly seen as a spice (IOW, a flavoring to be used in small
quantities) and listed both in recipes and shipping records with
other valuable Eastern imports.< SNIP < < < < < < < < <

I checked our friend Gernot Katzer and his spice pages.  His descriptions
seem to support the general concensus here as expressed by Adamantius.
There are, indeed, two varieties of rhizome described there:  Greater
Galangale (Alpina Galanga [L.] Willd.) and Lesser Galangale (Kaempferia
galanga L.).  they are roughly similar in appearance, though the described flavors are not so much the same.  I could not find a reference there to
cyperus longus.  The ones I find online all refer to English grasses  
and not at all to anything of Asian origin.

SPECULATION It seems that there is a distinct possibility that this sedge
was found, has aromatic roots, and was named for something already known in
the culture.  Maybe to gain favor for the local plant and make a new market
for it?  /END PECULATION

Greater Galangal (fresh) is what I have found in markets, and having the
flavor profile we want.  Given the French and German recipes that we have
using this galangale, and its niteruse with ginger, I am still believing our
assertion of the identity of the spice.  Now, if the gentleman with the
sedge reference has some historical based references and case to make, I am
open to hearing and looking at his premises and sources.  Very open.

niccolo difrancesco


Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:29:52 -0500
From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
>>>> I always thought that Galanga and laos were different beasts. From my days
in Thailand I remember Laos (Chinese Keys) as being long, white or pale
brown and finger like whilst Galanga was a larger root with a pink  
tinge.

Galanga reminded me of rattan with a really hot, sharp flavour... I love the
stuff, especially used in brewing... And it's a part of one of my commonly
made Thai dishes, Chicken and Coconut Milk Soup. < < < SNIP < < < <  <

I did a quick look again at Katzer's spice pages, and he refers to
Fingerroot (Boesenbergia pandurata (Roxb.) Schltr.)(Chinese Key) as a
different thing from what he cites as Laos ('nother name for greater
galangal).  I don't know exactly what it is you are working with exactly,
but there are pictures and descriptions on his pages.  Either way, it does
seem that there are two things out there, one being a ginger-looking rhizome
and one being a multi-fingered or tendriled rhizome.  The bichemistry seems
similar enough to be related, but different enough to taste different in
cooking.

Man, I wish we could get these fresh more often locally.  I need to look at
the propagation and see if I can actually grow these in my yard to see if
the taste is palatable in my dirt.  We aren't exactly SE Asia here in West
Georgia, USA, but i may be possible if ginger can be grown..

niccolo difrancesco


Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:28:29 -0500
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cassenadt

--On Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:53 AM -0700 edoard at medievalcookery.com
wrote:
<<< Yes, I know that "cypress" originally referred to the source of the
sugar, however I strongly suspect that cooks didn't always use sugar
from Cypress to make "viand cypress of salmon", and that (as time
passed) the word "cypress" in the title of a recipe came to sort of mean
"sweet dish".  I simply wondered if this was the case with "cassenadt"
as well, that the word had become an indicator for a type of sweet dish. >>>

The OED says that cypress refers not to sugar, but to galengale:

[A corruption of L. cyperus, cyperos, app. confounded with CYPRESS1.] 

   The Sweet Cyperus or Galingale. 

c1430 Two Cookery-bks. 21 Vyaund de cyprys bastarde..take whyte Gyngere,
and Galyngale, and Canel fayre y-mynced. 1549 Compl. Scot. vi. 67, I sau
cipresses, that is gude for the fluxis of the bellye. 1607 TOPSELL Four-f.
Beasts (1673) 143 Against tikes, lice, and fleas, anoint the dog with
bitter almonds..or roots of maple, or cipers. 1712 tr. Pomet's Hist. Drugs
I. 35 Long Cypress..is a knotty Root. 1799 C. SMITH Laboratory II. 400 Add
one drachm of the powder of cypress.
   b. Comb., as cypress-powder, cypress-root. 

1634 W. TIRWHYT tr. Balzac's Lett. 99 Enjoyning me never to goe to the
Warres, but when Muskets are charged with Cypres-powder. 1652 URQUHART
Jewel Wks. (1834) 229 Like another Sejanus, with a periwig daubed with
Cypres powder. 1790 W. WOODVILLE Med. Bot. I. 75 note, The root [of Arum
maculatum] is used by the French to wash the skin with..under the name of
Cypress Powder. 1879 PRIOR Plant-n. 61 Cypress-root, or Sweet Cypress..a
plant the aromatic roots of which are known as English galingale, Cyperus
longus.

toodles, gretchen

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	galangale-msg	20 of 20