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galangale-msg – 3/8/07

 

Period use of the spice galangale. Period documentation. Sources. Grinding it.

 

NOTE: See also the files: herbs-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, p-herbals-msg, seeds-msg, rue-msg, saffron-msg, garlic-msg, merch-spices-msg, gums-resins-msg, spice-mixes-msg, spices-msg, ginger-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: rousseaua at immunex.wa.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cubeb

Date: 22 Aug 95 14:44:40 PST

Organization: Immunex Corporation, Seattle, WA

 

Hey all from Anne-Marie in An Tir

 

Grains of Paradise and Galangale are both readily available here in Seattle.

My favorite herbal apothecary has whole galangale, which resembles a ginger

root you've let sit in the produce drawer of your fridge for about a century.

I've also found the powdered stuff (aka galinga) wherever they sell stuff for

Thai cooking. One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems

pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the petrified

whole stuff. Any suggestions?

 

--AM, who thinks one of the best things about living here is being able to get

bottles of rosewater in half liter sizes for really really cheap, and just

across the street from work! Hee.

 

 

From: jtn at newsserver.uconn.edu (Terry Nutter)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cubeb

Date: 23 Aug 1995 04:31:32 GMT

Organization: University of Connecticut

 

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

 

Anne-Marie asks about galangale:

:              One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems

:pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the petrified

:whole stuff. Any suggestions?

 

Well, there are two approaches.

 

(1) You can chop it down to small pieces, then soak them with wine to help

break down the fibres (thus learning why the medievals always had you

mix with wine before grinding), then put it in a mortar and pestle and

engage in some _serious_ upper body exercise.

 

(2) You can chop it down to small pieces and run it through a commercial

spice grinder.  Warning: it's been known to break the things.  I have

one that takes care of it, but they won't all.....

 

-- Angharad/Terry

 

 

From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cubeb

Date: 23 Aug 1995 07:16:55 GMT

Organization: University of Chicago Law School

 

> Hey all from Anne-Marie in An Tir

>

> Grains of Paradise and Galangale are both readily available here in Seattle.

> My favorite herbal apothecary has whole galangale, which resembles a ginger

> root you've let sit in the produce drawer of your fridge for about a century.

> I've also found the powdered stuff (aka galinga) wherever they sell stuff for

> Thai cooking. One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems

> pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the

> petrified whole stuff. Any suggestions?

 

Dried whole galingale root breaks spice grinders. On the other hand, frozen

whole galingale root has about the texture of ginger.

--

David/Cariadoc

ddfr at best.com

ddfr at aol.com

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cubeb

From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 22:47:07 EDT

 

rousseaua at immunex.wa.com writes:

> Hey all from Anne-Marie in An Tir

>

> Grains of Paradise and Galangale are both readily available here in Seattle.

> My favorite herbal apothecary has whole galangale, which resembles a ginger

> root you've let sit in the produce drawer of your fridge for about a century.

> I've also found the powdered stuff (aka galinga) wherever they sell stuff for

> Thai cooking. One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems

> pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the petrifi

> whole stuff. Any suggestions?

 

        Respected friend:

        A nutmeg grater and a fighter who needs to work on his quads (or are

those tri's?). It takes time, but it does work. (Then again, I once got a

quart of grain ground at Pennsic by offering fighters a chance to see how

hard it is to use a quern...)

 

                               Yours in service to the Society-

                               (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F.

                               Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA

                               Una Wicca (That Pict)

 

 

From: dpeters at panix.com (D. Peters)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cubeb

Date: 31 Aug 1995 22:09:45 -0400

Organization: Panix

 

>rousseaua at immunex.wa.com writes:

>> My favorite herbal apothecary has whole galangale, which resembles a ginger

>> root you've let sit in the produce drawer of your fridge for about a century.

>> One thing, I've noticed that the already powdered stuff seems

>> pretty wimpy, but I can't imagine getting any usable spice out of the petrifi

>> whole stuff. Any suggestions?

 

If you have a Thai grocery in your community {Wish I did [sniff :-(]--I just

moved}, you could skip the powder and the dried root entirely, and buy

galangal root fresh.  You can peel it with a carrot peeler and slice it

with a reasonably sharp knife; pieces of the fresh root can even be

chewed and swallowed by human teeth and throats (my recipe for Tom Kha

Kai says that fresh galangal is edible, although I prefer fishing them

out of the soup because they are rather fibrous.)

 

I have used fresh galangal in my redaction of Browet Farsure, and it

worked just fine.  Perhaps the "dried is stronger than fresh" caveat for

herbs would apply here, too.  Pick up a fresh galangal root and see for

yourself.

 

D.Peters

 

From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:24:56 -0700

Subject: SC - Re: Galangal

 

On 17 Apr 1997 22:04:26 -0600 "Mark Harris"

<mark_harris at quickmail.sps.mot.com> writes:

>Susan said on Tuesday, April 15,

>>I bought some at a Thai, Vietnamese grocery,

 

>Was it powdered? I've found powdered galingale to be difficult to

>find.

 

Yes, powdered :: Galangal Powder, imported by STP Spices

product of Thailand, bought from the Viet Hoa Market for .69 for 28 g

(1 ounce)

 

Susan

 

 

From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>

Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:26:44 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: SC - Galingale

 

>At 11:26 AM +0000 5/2/97, Jessica Tiffin wrote:

>>I'm having huge problems laying my hands

>>on cubebs, grains of paradise and the like.  Would anyone happen to

>>know alternative, preferably Indian, but at a pinch Latin names for

>>these spices?  I found galingale lurking in an Indian shop disguised

>>as something called galangal, and am hoping others may exist.

>

>Also sold as galangas, especially in thai groceries.

>

>Aphrodisia in NY sells by mail and over the phone; I don't know if they

>take foreign orders. Their phone number is in the Miscellany, near the

>beginnning.

>

>David/Cariadoc

>http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

It can also be called "Galinga". A friend found some in NYC at an Indian

Spice Shop for me and it was FRESH! What a wonderful Sauce Galantine that

made! She still has a nugget frozen in her freezer for Galingale Liqeur

(sauce is from To the King's Taste, and no, I can't lay my hands on it at

the moment). The gist of the sauce is broth, pulverised Galingale, spices,

thickened with breadcrumbs. I'll try to rummage for the recipe in the next

few days, if anyone is interested. I recall it being so simple that I was

able to "eyeball" it at the event with good results. It's excellent for the

meat sauce at the end of the feast, when the diners THINK they can't

possibly eat any more. It really does sharpen the appetite as "advertised".

The "giving courage"  part (a supposed effect of galingale) I can't vouch

for, having no excuse to be brave after partaking!

 

Aoife (also rummaging for her totally non-period original Galingale Liqeur

recipe)

 

 

Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:21:30 -0400 (EDT)

From: ANN1106 at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - spice info

 

Galangal (galanga root, galingale) can be found in many Asian markets in the

US - have seen it in Chinatown in NYC and in Philadelphia.  It is sometimes

referred to as Thai ginger, Laos ginger or Siamese ginger.  The powdered form

is usually called Lao ginger.

 

Audrey

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:57:38 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: SC - Galingale

 

> From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>

> BTW John Hervey gives the The 'Fromond' List of Plants of c. 1500, a list of

> plants grown in England (including artichokes!) and also including

> galingale, which did surprise me, as I assumed it was imported.  I'd be

> interested in comments.

>

> Caroline

 

Danger, Will Robinson!!!

 

Er, what I really mean to say is that the European galingale is a

tuberous plant with knobby roots, named for its vague resembance to the

Indonesian plant rhizome, the galingale that was used as a spice in

period...the European plant that is known as galingale in English is

called, IIRC, souchet in French.

 

I will locate and provide a more specific reference when I can...

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:15:37 EST

From: KKimes1066 <KKimes1066 at aol.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Galingale

 

It grows abundantly in the Thames, and is known as "Sweet Flag".

To reiterate an earlier statement.....

          DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!

Sweet flag is a suspected carcinogen. Don't use it. Whole root

Galangale can be had very cheaply from Penzey's Spice Catalog.

That is the real stuff, and you can get it with in one or two days if

need it desperately.

 

                            Percival Beaumont Esq-App

 

 

Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:07:30 -0400

From: "LHG, JRG" <liontamr at ptd.net>

Subject: SC - What is Galingale

 

From: Jenny Johanssen <johanssen at matnet.com>

>Excuse me for showing my ignorance - what is Gallingale?

 

Galingale is a spice related to ginger and subject to the same varients of

hot/sweet as ginger, in it various forms. It looks like ginger al little,

too. It's flavor is different, however, and has more "bite" and "savor". I

often combine the two to get that whole gingery range. It works well as a

hot spice OR a sweet spice. Do not bother with dried or powdered galingale

that is more than 6 months old. You may as well use ginger, since the

unique flavors have dissapeared by then. Some day I will get real fresh,

rather than fresh frozen galingale from NYC, if it's possible, so I can

taste the difference.

 

If none is available, you may substitute ginger if you must, but the end

result will be a pale comparison. I do not know why the use of galingale

dropped off at the end of our period. It's a real shame!

 

In period dishes were originally made from it with such names as Sauce

Galantine. These are highly flavored, sharp sauces that were said to give

you courage, valor, and honor (thus the word "Galant"). They were

traditionally served with red meats and fowl, and really do live up to

their reputation of restoring the appetite. Even if you are stuffed full,

you can still eat roast beef with a galantine sauce!

 

Aoife

 

 

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:44:33 EDT

From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>

Subject: Re: SC - galingale uses?

 

stefan at texas.net writes:

<< Is there any use for the galingale that doesn't require grinding it? >>

 

Soaking in spirits for liqueurs; adding them to vinegars to make flavored

vinegars, adding them to spice bags....these are a few possible uses.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:57:34 +1000

From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>

Subject: SC - Re: Galingale and verjuice.

 

Galingale is a rhizome which is closely related to ginger. It's botanical

name is Alpinia officinarum. It is a very common ingredient in Indonesian

food which is why you can buy it in Asian food stores.

 

Here in Sydney you can buy it fresh in any large supermarket/green grocer,

but for use in western medieval recipies you should buy it dried, preferably

in strips. Western medieval cooks did *not* have access to fresh galingale

and it tastes very different to the dry stuff, just as fresh and dried

ginger are totally different!

 

The powder gets old quickly, so dried strips are better. The coffee gringer

trick is what I use too, but I also cook with the strips, then remove them

before serving. The dried stuff is very cheap here.

 

Rowan

- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Robyn Probert

Customer Service Manager                Phone +61 2 9239 4999

Services Development Manager            Fax   +61 2 9221 8671

Lawpoint Pty Limited                    Sydney NSW  Australia

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:40:59 -0500

From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>

Subject: SC - Spices in Poland

 

In reading "Food and Drink in Medieval Poland" I came across some

interesting comments about some spices I had not heard before.

 

p41:

This paragraph is about the middle to late 1300s.

He mentions the importation of two sorts of galingale ("lesser",.

Alpina officinarum, and "greater", Alpina galanga).

 

Have other folks seen mention of two types of galingale? Which one

is the one sold today as galingale? both? Any idea what the differances

are?

 

All the spices in this list were apparently imported through Cyprus.

 

He also mentions Cypriot "monk's pepper" the seed of agnia or chaste

tree (Vitex agnus castus). "The pepper was added to monastic dishes to

suppress venery or sexual desire."

 

Anyone have any more on this or similar spices? I've got a little bit

on period aphrodisiacs. This is the first time I think I've heard of

a period spice being used to achieve the opposite effect.

 

Hmmm. Maybe that's the solution for the SCA-Cook's list baby boom? :-)

- --

Lord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra

Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas           stefan at texas.net

 

 

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:45:43 -0700

From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Spices in Poland

 

From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>

>In reading "Food and Drink in Medieval Poland" I came across some

>interesting comments about some spices I had not heard before.

>

>p41:

>This paragraph is about the middle to late 1300s.

>He mentions the importation of two sorts of galingale ("lesser",.

>Alpina officinarum, and "greater", Alpina galanga).

>

>Have other folks seen mention of two types of galingale? Which one

>is the one sold today as galingale? both? Any idea what the differances

>are?

 

We carry both types of galingale. Greater or Java galingale  (southeast

Asia) is the milder of the two, perhaps like ature of ginger and

cardamon. Lesser galingale (southern China) is much sharper in flavour,

like a combination of ginger and pepper. Greater galingale would seem to

have been the preferred variety in medieval Europe, though both were used.

 

>He also mentions Cypriot "monk's pepper" the seed of agnia or chaste

>tree (Vitex agnus castus). "The pepper was added to monastic dishes to

>suppress venery or sexual desire."

 

We have monk's pepper if you want to try some (it's not in the web

catalogue; we use it in a spice mixture -- but if anyone wants some e-mail

and we'll quote you a price)

 

Yours spicily,

Francesco

David Dendy / ddendy at silk.net

partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene at silk.net

Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:18:31 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Spices in Poland

 

Stefan li Rous wrote:

> Have other folks seen mention of two types of galingale? Which one

> is the one sold today as galingale? both? Any idea what the differences

> are?

 

Greater galingale has a larger cross-section (i.e. bigger slices) and awhitish flesh similar to ginger, while lesser galingale is smaller andwith a reddish-orangey flesh. It would be hard to discuss flavor differences in writing... . Greater galingale is also listed in The Von Welanetz Guide to Ethnic ingredients with a bazillion alternative names I won't go into here, except to say that many of the alternative names are in European languages, while the alternative names for lesser galingale (at least the ones they list) seem to be strictly Asian languages. This leads me to suspect the galingale known in period Europe may well have been Greater Galingale. On the other hand, what every herb and spice store I've seen sells as galingale is kentjur or Lesser Galingale (the little red guys), I could be wrong about this. I haven't discussed this in detail with the people at Aphrodisia. It may be that both found their way into medieval Europe.

 

> All the spices in this list were apparently imported through Cyprus.

>

> He also mentions Cypriot "monk's pepper" the seed of agnia or chaste

> tree (Vitex agnus castus). "The pepper was added to monastic dishes to

> suppress venery or sexual desire."

>

> Anyone have any more on this or similar spices? I've got a little bit

> on period aphrodisiacs. This is the first time I think I've heard of

> a period spice being used to achieve the opposite effect.

 

Ummm, I understand saltpeter is/was famous for being added to prison food, especially baked goods and meat dishes, for precisely that effect. Basically it messes up your blood pressure, rendering um, hydrostatic pressure regulation, um, impossible. Impotence in a can. It probably also caused some fatal strokes, though, with excessive repeated use. Salt would do the same, but the amount required would be unpalatable unless you used very frequent small doses (which many people do in their ordinary diets anyway...)

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:44:42 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Spices in Poland

 

troy at asan.com writes:

<< This leads me to suspect the galingale known in period Europe may well have been Greater Galingale.  >>

 

La Managier mentions several types of galingale and it's uses.

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:38:18 -0400

From: "Sayyida Halima al-Shafi'i of Raven's Cove" <lkuney at ec.rr.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] galangale

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

I use (and sell) dried slices of galangale root and have no trouble

powdering it.  I put the slices into a Braun coffee mill and whizz it

up.  I then put it through a sifter and am left with a very fine powder

with which to flavor galantynes or anything else.

 

Sayyida Halima al-Shafi'i

Stronghold of Raven's Cove

www.lisasnaturals.com

 

 

Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:43:53 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangale

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Where to find fresh galangal:

I find it at the Berkeley Bowl - but they have an exceptional produce

section. It is also available in Thai markets (where it is called

kha). Southeast Asian markets - such as Vietnamese markets - might

have it - and those omnibus Asian markets may carry it fresh, along

with fresh turmeric (much nicer than dried), and some other

interesting Zingiberacea rhizomes, like kentjur/kencur and

kuntji/kunci ("c" in Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malayu is pronounced

like an American "ch" - the Dutch, who colonized Indoesia, wrote it

with "tj")

 

Dried galangal "chips":

In places that don't have fresh galangal, one can often find dried

galangal slices.

 

To use in Southeast Asian cooking, i'd suggest soaking them in warm

water until they are soft-ish, then adding them plus the water to

soups or "curries".

 

To use in Medieval recipes, well, the dry slices can be ground with

difficulty in an electric grinder. I'd suggest breaking the slices up

into smaller pieces before grinding. Left whole, they can be

resistant and cause your grinder to overheat.

 

Substituting:

While i feel confident that the Europeans didn't have fresh galangal,

i think fresh can be substituted for dried. Cut off the amount you'll

need from the rhizome, peel the piece, cut into match sticks, then

into match heads, and then smash with the flat side of your cleaver

or kitchen knife. You'll need a lesser volume of fresh, compared to

the dried.

 

Galangal powder:

It tends to loose its flavor, as any spice does, but i think galangal

loses it more rapidly than many. As with all spices, it should be

kept in a non-porous container, such as glass, with a *very* tightly

fitted lid, and kept in a cool, dark place - as should all spices and

dried herbs.

 

Dried herbs and spices should never be kept long-term near the stove.

In fact, they should never be kept out at all in glass jars, as light

will often cause them to loose color and heat from the stove or the

sun (or your heater or stove) will volatilize the flavorful oils,

causing them to lose flavor.

 

I have two lazy susans i keep side by side in a cupboard, one has all

the spices on it, the second herbs and flavorings, small containers

on top, larger containers below, in alphabetical order.

 

Urtatim, formerly Anahita

(yeah, i'm gonna register Urtatim, so i need to get used to using it)

 

 

Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 13:57:00 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

        <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangale

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorraorg>

 

Also sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:

> Where to find fresh galangal:

> I find it at the Berkeley Bowl - but they have an exceptional

> produce ection. It is also available in Thai markets (where it is

> called kha). Southeast Asian markets - such as Vietnamese markets -

> might have it - and those omnibus Asian markets may carry it fresh,

> along with fresh turmeric (much nicer than dried), and ome other

> interesting Zingiberacea rhizomes, like kentjur/kencur and

> kuntji/kunci ("c" in Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malayu is

> pronounced like an American "ch" - the Dutch, who colonized

> Indonesia, wrote it with "tj")

 

I find it frozen, in three or four fingers in a four-or-so-ounce bag,

at any of several "omnibus Asian markets", which in my area are

really Chinese markets with smaller sections representing other

Asiatic cultures' (mostly SE Asian, rarely much in the way of

Japanese or Korean stuff) needs.

 

I've seen it fresh, but not in any discernible seasonality, so it's

hard for me to predict when it'll be available. For me, it's easier

to buy the frozen roots and use them as needed: I almost always have

some on hand, and it doesn't really go bad before I can use it up.

 

To my mind, it tastes kinda like eucalyptus...

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:38:39 -0700

From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>

Subject: Re:[Sca-cooks] galangale

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

At 23:54 -0800 2005-03-04, Chris Stanifer wrote:

> I don't kno of any European recipes which call for galangal to begin

> with

 

Four recipes in Viandier (c. 1390).

 

Thorvald

 

 

Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 23:07:21 -0500

From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangale

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

James Prescott wrote:

> At 23:54 -0800 2005-03-04, Chris Stanifer wrote:

>> I don't know of any European recipes which call for galangal to

>> begin with

>

> Four recipes in Viandier (c. 1390).

>

> Thorvald

 

Seven in de Nola; all but two of them are fish dishes.

--

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:34:35 -0500

From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangale

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

On Mar 5, 2005, at 11:07 PM, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:

> Seven in de Nola; all but two of them are fish dishes.

 

Three in "Ein Buch von guter spise".

Nineteen in "Forme of Cury".

Seven in "Liber cure cocorum"

Three in "Libro di cucina/ Libro per cuoco"

Thirteen references in "Le Menagier de Paris"

Thirty-six in "Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books"

And one in "Wel ende edelike spijse"

 

The following link for more details (long URL):

http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?

term=galingale&file=vgs&file=foc&file=lcc&file=ldc&file=lib&file=lmdp&fi

le=tfccb&file=via&file=wel

 

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)

 

 

Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:47:20 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Galangal

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> Can someone tell me the difference between Greater and Lesser Galangal? And,

> maybe, direct me someplace where I might obtain both varieties? It's

> becoming important in some recipes I'm looking over.

>

> Saint Phlip,

 

I can't help you with finding both spices.  I get galangal at a local health

food store and have yet to run across lesser galangal.

 

Greater galangal is Alpinia galanga.  Lesser galangal is Kaempferia galanga,

except that the term is also used for Alpinia officinarum.  A. officinarum

is commonly defined as galangal and is a common substitute for greater

galangal. Presumably, lesser galangal does not have as bright a flavor as

greater galangal and is more bitter and medicinal.

 

This URL should bring you into lesser galangal on Gernot Katzer's Spice

Pages:

 

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/generic_frame.html?Kaem_gal.html

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:34:33 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Galangal

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Phlip wrote:

> Can someone tell me the difference between Greater and Lesser  

> Galangal? And,

> maybe, direct me someplace where I might obtain both varieties? It's

> becoming important in some recipes I'm looking over.

 

I'm quite familiar with all three... (yes, i said three - see below)

from living in Indonesia and cooking Indonesian and Thai food.

 

-----

 

First, take a look at Gernot Katzer's Herb and Spice Pages for

photos, alternate names and spellings, and good info:

 

Greater Galangal, Alpinia galanga , often just Galangal:

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/generic_noframe.html?Alpi_gal.html

 

Lesser Galangal, Kaempferia galanga:

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/generic_frame.html?Kaem_gal.html

 

And as i suggested, there's a third in the family, called Fingerroot

or Chinese ginger in English:

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/generic_noframe.html?Boes_pan.html

 

-----

 

Galangal/greater galangal (alpinia galanga) has a pleasant and

relatively mild, slightly resinous flavor, whether fresh or dried in

chips or slices. Dried galangal is better if soaked or simmered for

some time. The packaged powder has an even milder flavor that fades

fairly rapidly in storage.

 

Galangal is commonly used in Indonesian and Thai cooking. In Bahasa

Indonesia it is called "laos" or "lengkuas". And in Thai it is called

"kha".

 

-----

 

Lesser galangal, Kaempferia galanga, has a rather stronger and more

resinous, even camphorous, flavor than standard galangal.

 

It is somewhat less often used in Indonesian cooking. In Bahasa

Indonesia it is called "kencur" (the "c" has a "ch" sound), sometimes

written "kentjoer" or "kentjur" (Dutch influenced spelling). It is

rarely used in Thai cooking - it's called "Pra hom" in Thai.

 

-----

 

The third, fingerroot, is even more strongly camphorous than the

other two and somewhat bitter.

 

It is used in only a few specific dishes in Indonesian cooking and is

called in Bahasa Indonesia "temu kunci" (the "c" has a "ch" sound) or

"temoe koentji" (Dutch spelling). It is much more commonly used in

Thai cooking than in Indonesian cooking, and it is more commonly used

in Thai cooking than Kaempferia glalana is. In Thai it is called

"krachai"

 

-----

 

Ultimately your best sources for any of these are Pan-Asian markets,

Southeast Asian/Thai markets, and Dutch shops (since Indonesia was a

colony of the Netherlands). Around here (SF Bay Area) i can find all

three fresh, although (greater) galangal is by far the most common

and easiest to find.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:00:15 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Galangal

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Phlip wrote:

> Can someone tell me the difference between Greater and Lesser Galangal? And,

> maybe, direct me someplace where I might obtain both varieties? It's

> becoming important in some recipes I'm looking over.

 

OK - i've passed along info on three related roots... Now, what are

the recipes?

 

As for which one to use, Andrew Dalby in "Dangerous Tastes" posits

that galangal (greater galangal/Alpinia galanga) was the one called

for in Medieval recipes, but that since supply was sporadic and not

entirely reliable, other similar rhizomes (such as Kaempferia galanga

(kencur/lesser galangal) or Boesenbergia pandurata (temu

kunci/fingerrot)) may have been substituted for galangal if it didn't

arrive in a shipment.

 

When i'm cooking Medieval recipes i always use galangal

(laos/lengkuas/kha) since that was apparently the most common and the

preferred root.

 

If i'm cooking Indonesian or Thai food, i use the actual form called

for in the original recipe, since they all taste different and only

the right one will yield the right flavor.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:05:28 -0500

From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangal

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,     SCA-Cooks

        maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>

 

<http://importfood.com/spga0402.html>;

sells bottles of galangal powder for $3.40 per ounce.

 

www.shopping.com shows two companies selling Laos powder- galangal for

between $5 and $6 per 2oz bottles.

 

And, in the UK, there are lots of mailorder sites

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 20:04:49 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangal

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

<<< The trick is getting the galangal into a

powdered form that can be used in such a spice mixture.

 

Stefan >>>

 

http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/p-penzeysgalangal.html

 

Galangal Ground 1 lb. bag

$12.40

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:45:02 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galangal

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> it. The catch is the galangal. You can find out more about galangal

> in the link I give below. The trick is getting the galangal into a

> powdered form that can be used in such a spice mixture. Galangal is a

> root and generally when you find it, it will be in large chunks, up

> to about a quarter inch in size.

 

Penzey's Spices (www.penzeys.com) sells galangal in powdered form.

--

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

 

 

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:37:11 -0600

From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal

To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>

Cc: jason at grazecatering.com

 

I received this message today, which I will be placing in the

Florilegium. However, I was under the impression that "galingale" was

the same as "galanga or galangal", probably from, as Jason mentions,

comments from this list.

 

So can any one clarify this or refute one assertion or the other?

 

Stefan

 

<<<

From:    jason at grazecatering.com

Subject:      Galingale

Date: January 10, 2007 4:59:08 PM CST

To:      stefan at florilegium.org

 

  First,

Thanks for providing a forum to exchange information about all things

medieval. I would like to point out what seems to be a very glaring

(although understandable) error that is being taken as fact on your

site. I am a chef  of a small catering business specializing in

globally-inspired hors d'oeuvres.  As a result, I have a tremendous

assortment of spices from all over the world, and always doing

research to find new "unusual" or "unknown" ingredients.  Lately I

have been doing a lot of research on medieval cuisine and cooking

techniques, which lead to my quest for galingale.  Many contributors

to florilegium are saying with authority that the spice "galingale"

mentioned in so many medieval recipes is the same as the spice

"galanga or galangal" used in southeast Asian cooking.  However, my

research indicates otherwise.  Galanga (kaempferis parviflora) is a

rhisome related to ginger, while galingale (cyperus longus) is a

sedge or type of grass native to the UK and other parts of Europe,

the root of which has been used for medicine and cooking for

centuries, if not millenia.  [See www.killerplants.com ]

I would be interested to hear what others think about this and if

anyone knows of a source for dried galingale.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jason Bartis  >>>

--------

THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra

    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas

 

 

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:44:33 -0800

From: prescotj at telusplanet.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,     Stefan li

        Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>

Cc: jason at grazecatering.com

 

OED does indeed mention both under the "galingale" heading.  The

earliest citation the OED gives under the East Indian plant is

1000. The earliest under the English sedge version (which is

said to have similar properties) is 1578.

 

I think it a good bet that most, though perhaps not all, period

references to galingale are to the (imported) East Indian spice.

 

Thorvald

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:51:50 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Cc: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>,

        jason at grazecatering.com

 

On Jan 11, 2007, at 12:37 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

 

> I received this message today, which I will be placing in the

> Florilegium. However, I was under the impression that "galingale" was

> the same as "galanga or galangal", probably from, as Jason mentions,

> comments from this list.

>

> So can any one clarify this or refute one assertion or the other?

 

As I'm understanding them, there are no mutually exclusive assertions

being made, and no refutation needed. There are plants found in the

far East, rhizomes related to ginger, used as a spice, known

collectively as galingale, distinguished as Greater and Lesser

galingale, used in the cookery of China and Southeast Asia,

particularly Indonesia, under names like galanga, kencur and laos. To

me, they taste a little like ginger and a lot like eucalyptus. This

is the galingale generally referred to medieval English recipes,

clearly seen as a spice (IOW, a flavoring to be used in small

quantities) and listed both in recipes and shipping records with

other valuable Eastern imports.

 

The sedge often referred to as galingale is indeed a European plant

that is edible, but as far as I know, its edible portion is more

tuberous and starchy. I believe this is the wild vegetable known in

English as galingale, but in French as souchet and amandes de terre.

It's used as food, yes, but although aromatic, not as a spice, and

not in the same way as the medieval English cook's galingale. I'd be

very interested in seeing evidence indicating that souchet is the

galingale referred to in, say, The Forme of Cury, because there's at

least a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that it is not; the

only evidence I have seen that suggests it might be is the mere fact

that this European plant exists and is called by a similar name

(maybe because the tubers look vaguely like the rhizomes); I'm

certainly not aware of any recipes that instruct the cook to go and

dig up some galingale from the kitchen garden, while there are

probably at least a hundred that list it in the same category as

ginger, pepper, grains of paradise, etc.

 

FWIW, the 1985 "American" edition of the Larousse Gastronomique has

an article about galingale, the sedge  (I pulled it out because I

recalled it having a neat little picture of it and everything, but

apparently I was mistaken on the photo thing; I know I've seen one

somewhere).

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:17:30 +1030

From: "Craig Jones" <drakey at internode.on.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> As I'm understanding them, there are no mutually exclusive assertions

> being made, and no refutation needed. There are plants found in the

> far East, rhizomes related to ginger, used as a spice, known

> collectively as galingale, distinguished as Greater and Lesser

> galingale, used in the cookery of China and Southeast Asia,

> particularly Indonesia, under names like galanga, kencur and laos. To

> me, they taste a little like ginger and a lot like eucalyptus. This

> is the galingale generally referred to medieval English recipes,

> clearly seen as a spice (IOW, a flavoring to be used in small

> quantities) and listed both in recipes and shipping records with

> other valuable Eastern imports.

 

I always thought that Galanga and laos were different beasts. From my days

in Thailand I remember Laos (Chinese Keys) as being long, white or pale

brown and finger like whilst Galanga was a larger root with a pink  

tinge.

 

Galanga reminded me of rattan with a really hot, sharp flavour... I love the

stuff, especially used in brewing... And it's a part of one of my commonly

made Thai dishes, Chicken and Coconut Milk Soup.

 

I only ever saw Laos used in cooking on the few times I went south... It was

a part of a fantastic Chilli crab (I assumed so as there was a basket of

them on the kitchen table) I had for breakfast, lunch and dinner cooking 24

hrs a day in a 44 gallon drum (master sauce style).  It was a bit eucalyptus

like but aussies as a rule aren't very sensitive to that flavour. All those

koalas we BBQ all taste like eucalyptus, don't you know ;)

 

Kenchur was something you saw rarely and had a non-hot but spicy flavour.

Had a reddish brown skin. Used to get slices in Fish soup from the

restaurant at the end of my street. Kinda of tangy with a taste hard to

describe, I swear almost violet like... But not... Kenchur was defiantly a

different spice to laos tho...

 

So we are talking about the same spices, yeah?

 

Drake - no 'drakies' lately... Unless you count the "wood stain explosion in

the face" incident...

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:20:45 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On Jan 11, 2007, at 7:47 AM, Craig Jones wrote:

 

> I always thought that Galanga and laos were different beasts. From my days

> in Thailand I remember Laos (Chinese Keys) as being long, white or pale

> brown and finger like whilst Galanga was a larger root with a pink

> tinge.

 

It's my understanding that one is the Greater, and one the Lesser,

Galingale. I forget which is which, but yes, there's a reddish-

skinned one and a whitish one... to me, both taste a fair amount like

a Halls Eucalyptus Cough Drop. But as was pointed out, they've got

"camphor" in their name, so I'm not surprised as a certain resinous

quality...

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:09:41 -0500

From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

-----Original Message-----

>>>>>> On Jan 11, 2007, at 12:37 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

 

> I received this message today, which I will be placing in the

> Florilegium. However, I was under the impression that "galingale" was

> the same as "galanga or galangal", probably from, as Jason mentions,

> comments from this list.

>

> So can any one clarify this or refute one assertion or the other?

 

As I'm understanding them, there are no mutually exclusive assertions

being made, and no refutation needed. There are plants found in the

far East, rhizomes related to ginger, used as a spice, known

collectively as galingale, distinguished as Greater and Lesser

galingale, used in the cookery of China and Southeast Asia,

particularly Indonesia, under names like galanga, kencur and laos. To

me, they taste a little like ginger and a lot like eucalyptus. This

is the galingale generally referred to medieval English recipes,

clearly seen as a spice (IOW, a flavoring to be used in small

quantities) and listed both in recipes and shipping records with

other valuable Eastern imports.< SNIP < < < < < < < < <

 

I checked our friend Gernot Katzer and his spice pages.  His descriptions

seem to support the general concensus here as expressed by Adamantius.

There are, indeed, two varieties of rhizome described there:  Greater

Galangale (Alpina Galanga [L.] Willd.) and Lesser Galangale (Kaempferia

galanga L.).  they are roughly similar in appearance, though the described flavors are not so much the same.  I could not find a reference there to

cyperus longus.  The ones I find online all refer to English grasses  

and not at all to anything of Asian origin.

 

SPECULATION It seems that there is a distinct possibility that this sedge

was found, has aromatic roots, and was named for something already known in

the culture.  Maybe to gain favor for the local plant and make a new market

for it?  /END PECULATION

 

Greater Galangal (fresh) is what I have found in markets, and having the

flavor profile we want.  Given the French and German recipes that we have

using this galangale, and its niteruse with ginger, I am still believing our

assertion of the identity of the spice.  Now, if the gentleman with the

sedge reference has some historical based references and case to make, I am

open to hearing and looking at his premises and sources.  Very open.

 

niccolo difrancesco

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:29:52 -0500

From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] galingale/galanga/galangal

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

-----Original Message-----

>>>> I always thought that Galanga and laos were different beasts. From my days

in Thailand I remember Laos (Chinese Keys) as being long, white or pale

brown and finger like whilst Galanga was a larger root with a pink  

tinge.

 

Galanga reminded me of rattan with a really hot, sharp flavour... I love the

stuff, especially used in brewing... And it's a part of one of my commonly

made Thai dishes, Chicken and Coconut Milk Soup. < < < SNIP < < < <  <

 

I did a quick look again at Katzer's spice pages, and he refers to

Fingerroot (Boesenbergia pandurata (Roxb.) Schltr.)(Chinese Key) as a

different thing from what he cites as Laos ('nother name for greater

galangal). I don't know exactly what it is you are working with exactly,

but there are pictures and descriptions on his pages.  Either way, it does

seem that there are two things out there, one being a ginger-looking rhizome

and one being a multi-fingered or tendriled rhizome.  The bichemistry seems

similar enough to be related, but different enough to taste different in

cooking.

 

Man, I wish we could get these fresh more often locally.  I need to look at

the propagation and see if I can actually grow these in my yard to see if

the taste is palatable in my dirt.  We aren't exactly SE Asia here in West

Georgia, USA, but i may be possible if ginger can be grown..

 

niccolo difrancesco

 

<the end>



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