per-insanity-msg - 4/17/08 Insane personas, insanity in period. NOTE: See also the files: persona-art, per-lepers-msg, p-medicine-msg, p-manners-msg, Inquisitn-Gme-art, religion-msg, heretics-msg, jesters-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: DRS at UNCVX1.BITNET ("Dennis R. Sherman") Date: 15 Nov 91 02:54:00 GMT Organization: The Internet Someone asked about psychiatric references for our period. It just happens that I'm working in a book that has some references that may be of interest. The source: Cockayne, Rev. Thomas Oswald (tr.); _Leechdoms, Wortcunning, and Starcraft of Early England, being a collection of documents for the most part never before printed, illustrating the history of science in this country before the Norman conquest._; London: Longman, Green, Longman, Roberts, and Green, 1865. I'm currently in volume 2 (of 3), which contains the "leechdoms", which are prescriptions for solutions to medical problems. The manuscript (which is transcribed [Old English] on one page, with a facing page modern English translation) is dated from the 10th Century, probably about 960 CE. Some excerpts about psychiatry (sort of :-) : For a fiend sick man, when a devil possesses the man or controls him from within with disease; a spew drink, lupin, bishopwort, henbane, cropleek; pound together, add ale for a liquid, let stand for a night, add fifty libcorns, and holy water. A drink for a fiend sick man, to be drunk out of a church bell; githrife, cynoglossum, yarrow, lupin, betony, attorlothe, cassock, flower de luce, fennel, church lichen, lichen of Christs mark, lovage; work up the drink off clear ale, sing seven masses over the worts, add garlic and holy water, and drip the drink into every drink which he will subsequently drink, and let him sing the psalm, Beati immaculati, and Exurgat, and Salvum me fac, deus, and then let him drink the drink out of a church bell, and let the mass priest after the drink sing this over him, Domine, sancte pater omnipotens. For a lunatic; costmary, goutweed, lupin, betony, attorlothe, cropleek, field gentian, hove, fennel; let masses be sung over, let it be wrought of foreign ale and of holy water; let him drink this drink for nine mornings, at every one fresh, and no other liquid that is thick and still, and let him give alms, and earnestly pray God for his mercies. For the phrenzied; bishopwort, lupin, bonewort, everfern, githrife, elecampane, when day and night divide, then sing thou in the church litanies, that is, the names of the hallows, and the Paternoster; with the song go thou, that thou mayest be near the worts, and go thrice about them, and when thou takest them go again to church with the same song, and sing twelve masses over hem, and over all the drinks which belong to the disease, in honour of the twelve apostles. lxvi. Against mental vacancy and against folly; put into ale bishopwort, lupins, betony, the southern fennel, nepte, water agrimony, cockle, marche, then let drink. For idiotcy and folly, put into ale, cassia, and lupins, bishopwort, alexanders, githrife, fieldmore, and holy water; then let him drink. Robyyan Torr d'Elandris Dennis R. Sherman Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill Chapel Hill, NC Atlantia drs at uncvx1.bitnet drs at uncvx1.oit.unc.edu Subject: fantasy personas Date: 12 Jun 92 From: trifid at agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Organization: Open Communications Forum Although it is about a century OOP, I do remember one very amusing account of a head of the Fraser clan who, in late middle age, decided he was a hen *turkey* and arrived in his coach at the site of a fellow Laird's banquet sitting on a clutch of *eggs*, waiting for them to hatch. He refused to leave his "nest" until his "babies" hatched. The response was to convince him he needed to answer a call of nature, and take the eggs while he was gone, replacing them with baby chicks and bits of shell. (Raising "exotic" fowl was a popular hobby of the wealthy in those days..) The Laird was pleased his babies had "hatched" and went in to the banquet a happy man... :-) Now such tolerance might only have been reserved to nobles, but perhaps not. In any case, it was a pragmatic solution, even if it did nothing to restore his ability to recognize reality. Moreach NicMaolain trifid at agora.rain.com From: julifolo at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (watkins julia k) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Vampires Date: 30 Mar 1994 13:17:49 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana BTW, regarding lunatics in period, I've been working on a special ed book at work in which an anecdote is told about Martin Luther. In his travels, he encountered an obviously mentally handicapped youth. Since the mad have no souls and are just pieces of carrion ready to be inhabited by the devil, Luther advised that the youth be taken down to the river and drowned (he wasn't, and Luther got mighty upset). And Martin Luther *is* definitely period. Yrs, Folo From: dmeehan at huey.csun.edu (Dan Meehan) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How to create an insane persona... Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 17:05:56 Organization: CSU Northridge Keywords: nutcase In article <3c2n13$3nj at hermes.louisville.edu> cesnyd01 at vulcan.spd.louisville.edu (Cris Snyder) writes: >I have a question - I would like to add a second persona, one who is slightly, >..um...'not right'. My question to the NetKnownWorld is this...how would you >handle this? 1. Employ frequent lapses of memory. 2. Introduce non-sequiturs into conversations. Choose 2 or 3 non-sequiturs and come up with a way to obsessivly follow each to some horrifying (to you) and banal (to others) conclusion. 3. Look dirty. (I would suggest not washing for several days, but this may be going a little too far!) 4. Beg for alms. Use this as a means of engaging others in the above points. >I don't have plans on doing anything stupid or dangerous, just weird. My >current persona is kinda flat and boring (reminicent of me) and I think that >this would add a bit of spice to things. I was going to introduce him as my >persona's twin brother (whom is never around when I am around, and visa versa) >I guess the other question is - how did mideval folx deal with others who >didn't have all their eggs in one basket. Did they lock all crazy people up or >let them loose if they didn't cause trouble? etc. They probably locked up the dangerous ones, and let the ones who were safe wander about. Just a guess - I haven't studied this at all. (I just know how to be crazy, that's all!) :) Damian von Baden Altavia/Caid From: nuksbab at oak.grove.iup.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How to create an insane persona... Date: 8 Dec 1994 02:20:08 GMT Organization: Indiana U of Pennsylvania In article <3c2n13$3nj at hermes.louisville.edu>, cesnyd01 at vulcan.spd.louisville.edu (Cris Snyder) writes: >> >I guess the other question is - how did mideval folx deal with others who didn't >have all their eggs in one basket. Did they lock all crazy people up or let >them loose if they didn't cause trouble? etc. Incidentally, I've done a bit of research on this subject (some people have too much free time and all that....) one of the better books that i've found is called "Madness and Civilization" by Michel Foucault. Hes a post- structuralist/deconstructionist/historian writer. (If you're into this sort of thing, you know what i mean... With out sounding like a book review, let me say this, he covers period dealings with the insane in a rather well done format......(ie: DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH :) ) Just a sugg. - Colgrim From: andwinkl at bashful.cc.utexas.edu (A. L. Winkler) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: medieval insanity Date: 9 Dec 1994 10:04:48 -0600 Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas At least in the places where insanity met sanctity, the boundaries could be very fuzzy indeed. THomas of Cantimpre wrote about a woman named Christina Mirabilis, who among other things managed to imitate the Resurrection (rose from what she claimed was "dead" at least twice; nobody disputed this) and went around, when alive, engaging in what seems to us bizarre behavior. She would rip other people's sleeves or cotte off; she would stand in the icy River Meuse; she would live for months in the forest, subsisting on her own miraculous lactation; she could not abide the smell of men and spent a lot of time "flying" up to the roof of the cathedral and the tops of trees. Interestingly, at first she was considered at worst insane and at best a public nuisance, despite the fact that many of the things she had performed (living in the forest, standing in the river, and one revival) are all associated with sainthood. Her sisters, however, saw a young woman who wanted attention, and they hired someone to go fetch Christina out of the forest and bring her back. He had to break her shinbone to do so, but he got her, and her sisters chained her to a wall in their house. But the wound healed, and her chains fell off, and she was nourished by breast milk, and even the sisters began to think that perhaps Christina wasn't really that crazy. Christina still faced doubts, though, and had a vision in which Christ in effect told her to tone down her behavior, because people were losing her message by being so distracted by her actions. At any rate, it's something to think about. There's a translation of Christina's life by Margot King, in the Matrologia Latina series out of Kalamazoo (no, that is not a typo; I'm not referring to Migne's Patrologia Latina series!). For those people who want to slog through the Latin, her vita can be found in the AASS (July V, July 24, pp. 637-660). That's the new edition, ed. Pinius, 1868. THomas Cantimpre, the hagiographer, also wrote a supplement to Jacques of Vitry's Life of Marie d'Oignies, a Life of Lutgard of Aywieres, and a Life of Margaret of Ypres. Oh, and a Life of John of Cantimpre, and, of course, his two major treatises, de bonum universale de apibus and de rerum natura. Enjoy! --Julian of Alney Collegium Turris Animarum From: alfredo1 at aol.com (Alfredo1) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Madness at events Date: 9 Dec 1994 02:55:03 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) > On creating a mad character..... > ... > 3) You might also want to look at the history of fools and > jesters. Yes. This is true of everyone, not just those seeking to create a mad character. Everyone ought to look at the history of fools and jesters. The following discourse is not meant to replace the research that each of you should make into this subject, if you ever have to interact with jesters and/or fools. The medieval equivalent of committing a family member to an institution was "to beg him for a fool", which would make him a ward of the King or some other noble better able to care for him than the family. This noble would agree to take this burden because of the entertainment value. I recall reading of one case of a fool who was himself very melancholy but who provided much merriment by explaining when asked (as he often was) that he had killed several people for looking ugly. (Can you imagine people in our enlightened day deriving entertainment from mass murder?) Such fools were referred to as 'natural' fools, as opposed to 'artificial' fools who willingly donned motley to earn a living by their wits. I think that this distinction is alluded to in the old song, "What Kind of Fool Am I?" Alfredo el Bufon From: pyotr at chinook.halcyon.com (Peter D. Hampe) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How to create an insane persona... Date: 9 Dec 1994 06:49:11 GMT Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Keywords: nutcase Greetings from Nikolai Petrovich, dmeehan at huey.csun.edu (Dan Meehan) writes: :In article <3c2n13$3nj at hermes.louisville.edu> cesnyd01 at vulcan.spd.louisville.edu (Cris Snyder) writes: :>I have a question - I would like to add a second persona, one who is slightly, :>..um...'not right'. My question to the NetKnownWorld is this...how would you :>handle this? :1. Employ frequent lapses of memory. :2. Introduce non-sequiturs into conversations. : Choose 2 or 3 non-sequiturs and come up with a way to obsessivly follow : each to some horrifying (to you) and banal (to others) conclusion. :3. Look dirty. (I would suggest not washing for several days, but this may : be going a little too far!) :4. Beg for alms. Use this as a means of engaging others in the above points. Reminds me of a "fool" who came to the event. Had a keeper, but mostly she cadged food money or drink. Well, what else is there? (Heeesh back there!) The screamingly funny story is that in the midst of their preabulations they met with a woman who had 'vast tracts of land' and a low cut peasant blouse. Fool asks her keeper, pointing "food?", No fool, no food. Drink? she queried brightly? No Fool, nothing to drink. Money!? No Fool, no money. No Food, No Money? It must be empty! All that and its empty! And made signs like she was going to climb in and check for herself, which got a laugh (Fool was barely five foot tall and Keeper was shy Six himself). :>I don't have plans on doing anything stupid or dangerous, just weird. My :>current persona is kinda flat and boring (reminicent of me) and I think that :>this would add a bit of spice to things. I was going to introduce him as my :>persona's twin brother (whom is never around when I am around, and visa versa) :>I guess the other question is - how did mideval folx deal with others who didn't :>have all their eggs in one basket. Did they lock all crazy people up or let :>them loose if they didn't cause trouble? etc. Depends on the local depends on the case. The sort who talked to the period equivalent of Elvis might be ignored "O tis only mad Tom.", some got Patronage because while they were Not Quite Right, there was a certian entertainment value (Standup Comics; Forest Gump are modern examples.) Stark raving loonies got confined or driven out. If you slew someone because 'the voices' told you to, you might be first exorsed but the insanity defense wasn't an option. One thing for an SCA nutcase - the friendly sort naturally - like being a clown, it gives you an out. "That wasn't me, that was the Costume speaking." Do your research, and have fun. Maybe you can get a gig with the local Tin Hats. Why be anyones fool when you can be A Royal Fool! chus Nikolai Petrovich Flandrovov Zampollet to the MacFlandrys Loose Canon, Heavy Metal Opera Company, An Tir. -- pyotr at halcyon.com Pyotr Filipivich, sometimes Owl. From: ayen at access4.digex.net (Doug Ayen) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How to create an insane persona... Date: 7 Dec 1994 02:02:10 -0500 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Keywords: nutcase cesnyd01 at vulcan.spd.louisville.edu (Cris Snyder) writes: >I guess the other question is - how did mideval folx deal with others who didn't >have all their eggs in one basket. Did they lock all crazy people up or let >them loose if they didn't cause trouble? etc. Depends upon period/local. Some folks considered the insane "god-touched", and so fed & housed them. Others locked them up in hell-hole type asylums. Still others just killed them. Give us a time frame/local, and maybe we can get more specific. --doug From: ilaine at panix.com (Liz Stokes) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How to create an insane persona... Date: 7 Dec 1994 10:46:35 -0500 Organization: Public Access Internet & UNIX Keywords: nutcase Just get to the quote from cesnyd01 at vulcan.spd.louisville.edu (Cris Snyder), ok?" > >I guess the other question is - how did mideval folx deal with others who didn't >have all their eggs in one basket. Did they lock all crazy people up or let >them loose if they didn't cause trouble? etc. > As with everything, it depends on when/where. For Elizabethan, if your persona had family and enough money they would hire someone to follow you around and make sure you didn't get into trouble. Sheakspeare deals with insanity in many of his plays, I took a course on madness in Renaissance literature and 2/3 of the readings were Sheakspeare. I recall some theory that he became fascinated with madness because someone he knew (his father?) lost their mind when he was young. Sheakespeare's mad characters are very convincing, the nonesense they talk hangs together or has a train of thought that makes sense in a twisted way. King Lear would be a good place to start for ideas, then Hamlet and MacBeth. -Ilaine -- Liz Stokes | Hey! Where am I going? Ilaine de Cameron | | And what am I doing in this handbasket? ilaine at panix.com | From: nuksbab at oak.grove.iup.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How to create an insane persona... Date: 8 Dec 1994 02:20:08 GMT Organization: Indiana U of Pennsylvania In article <3c2n13$3nj at hermes.louisville.edu>, cesnyd01 at vulcan.spd.louisville.edu (Cris Snyder) writes: >> >I guess the other question is - how did mideval folx deal with others who didn't >have all their eggs in one basket. Did they lock all crazy people up or let >them loose if they didn't cause trouble? etc. > Incidentally, I've done a bit of research on this subject (some people have too much free time and all that....) one of the better books that i've found is called "Madness and Civilization" by Michel Foucault. Hes a post- structuralist/deconstructionist/historian writer. (If you're into this sort of thing, you know what i mean... With out sounding like a book review, let me say this, he covers period dealings with the insane in a rather well done format......(ie: DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH :) ) Just a sugg. - Colgrim From: HAROLD.FELD at hq.doe.GOV Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Madness at events Date: 8 Dec 1994 10:27:49 -0500 Organization: The Internet Unto all who read these words, greetings from Yaakov. On creating a mad character..... 1) On thing that might be helpful is looking up some current texts on mental disease to determine what sort of 'madness' you want to recreate. Contrary to popular belief, mental illness doesn't genreally involve going around shouting random jibberish at the top of your longs. Many metal illnesses are marked by particular behavior patterns (for example: what Therica described about constantly twisting the apron and snivelling). 2) Some of the things we now recognize and define as mental illnesses would not necessarily be viewed as illnesses then, because they would not be defined as illness. For example- obsessive/compulsive behavior or addictive behavior. If you gambled or drank you weren't 'sick', you were sinful. (I wonder if Turrets is a period disease?) 3) You might also want to look at the history of fools and jesters. 4) It is important to distinguish between various forms of mental illness and being 'simple'. 5) An important question, it seems to me, is *why* do a 'mad' persona? What element of it do you find attractive? I find the challenge of creating a medieval character sufficiently difficult that trying to create one who is mad strikes me as rather daunting. There is also the problem that if you engage in behavior which is outside the norm, unless you have a number of shills to clue people in, you are going to put a fair number of folks off. Are you attracted to raving lunies who panhandle for change? There is a guy outside the building where I work who carries on a continuous monolog. It is clear he thinks he is talking to someone, as his voice rises and falls, changes subject in response to 'statements' or 'questions', etc. You don't find people hanging around him and thinking this is a fun guy to take to lunch. Yaakov From: nielsen at boba.mayo.EDU (Ann Nielsen) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Madness at Events" Date: 7 Dec 1994 21:05:13 -0500 Organization: The Internet Greetings unto those on the Rialto from Lady Therica! Haven't had a chance to post in ages, but the current mini-thread on 'mad' personas reminded me of two --- one done by a friend of mine, and one by me. My friend, a very serious and usually solemn person (well, at least until you get to know her!) created a persona for a camping event. The new persona was 'Malkin', and she was rather simple. Malkin took *everything* you said literally, much to the amusement of others. Thus, you had to be v-e-r-y careful of what you said to her, because otherwise you might end up with something quite different than what you had anticipated. (It's been many years now and darn if I can't remember an example! But trust me on this one!) Malkin got her 'simpleness' across in a number of ways. One: she was always sniffing. Long, deep sniffles that needed the raking of the sleeve across the nose to silence. Two: she constantly twisted her apron corner. Three: she spoke haltingly, often repeating what you had said with a tilted head and a quizzical look on her face (meaning: Rephrase your command quickly because she was thinking of mischief!) Four: she would 'round' her eyes and open her mouth slightly at the least cause (often called the 'tv-look'). Five: She was delighted with the simplest things ("Look! A flower! Look at the flower!" while tugging at your sleeve emphatically to come with her to look at a dandelion) and would insist you share it with her. There were other ways, but these come quickly to mind. Malkin, being that she was simple, was a lowly servant, and it was her duty to wait on everyone. Which she did, with- out question. Often with hilarious results. I created a persona for a murder event our Shire hosted a number of years ago. Daphne was the 'typical' blonde --- sweet and light and determined to mis- understand *everything* you said to her. How else was she to survive living with her 80 year old husband whose first two (or was it three?) wives had died under mysterious circumstances? An example: at one point in the beginning of the day, we were welcoming our guests. Suddenly, the King's tax collector appeared. Daphne, being Daphne, welcomed him graciously and happily, enjoining him to go wherever he would like and do whatever he wished. Her husband's only daughter (and evil, to boot!) pulled Daphne aside. "Daphne!" she hissed loudly enough so all on-lookers could hear. "That's the King's Tax Collector! What if he decides to look at Father's books and finds something --- irreg- ular?!" Daphne, being Daphe, looked at her with wide, innocent eyes. "Poor thing," she said sympathetically. "If he ate more prunes, he wouldn't be irregular." There was a stunned pause, and then the onlookers burst out laughing. Margaret (Daphne's stepdaughter) had all she could do to choke back her laughter and got past it by glaring at me. Furiously. ;-) My suggestion is to select what kind of character you would like to portray. Pick a few easily remembered mannerisms that aren't common (such as Malkin's exaggerated nose-wiping with her sleeve or her apron twisting, or Daphne's assumption that *everyone* is made of goodness and light and means no harm to anyone) and practice them constantly throughout the day. Malkin had a good master, so her garb was plain, but neatly mended and clean. Daphne was dressed to the hilt in Elizabethan (there's *got* to be something good in being married to a rich, ornery old man, right?). Whatever you choose, be consistent --- but most of all, have fun! Therica --'--,--{ at ******************************************************* * Ann Nielsen --'--,--{ at * * nielsen at falcon.mayo.edu * * SPPDG Mayo Foundation * * Rochester, MN 55905 * ******************************************************* Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: tccg at netcom.com (Tim McDaniel and Other Users) Subject: Re: How to create an insane persona... Keywords: nutcase Date: Sat, 17 Dec 1994 07:24:41 GMT In article <3c8ul7$pbp at news.halcyon.com>, Peter D. Hampe wrote: >Greetings from Nikolai Petrovich, who says he only does what the his >rice crispies tell him.... oh no! I missed my breakfast this Morning! ... > Stark raving loonies got confined or driven out. If you slew >someone because 'the voices' told you to, you might be first exorsed >but the insanity defense wasn't an option. I believe this is not the case in some times and places. The local Steppes Collegium had a professor give a talk a few months ago, and she spoke on (as I recall) medieval crime and punishment. She mentioned several cases and precedents in England. Frenzy -- temporary insanity -- was a defence; an example I recall is a woman who mistook her returning husband for a bear coming in the door and slew him, and was let off. Post-partum depression was also a defence; the example was a woman who slew her child several months after birth, and was let off. She mentioned one case at more length. A man was walking home one day with friends when he sudenly tried to drown himself in a pond. His friends got him out and escorted him home. The neighbors heard a commotion and broke into the house, to find that the man had killed his wife and children and was trying to kill himself. Years later, a king (Henry IV, perhaps?) wrote to the shire court, asking why the man was still imprisoned -- a sort of "quo warranto", implying that the proper thing to do was to let him go. The sherrif replied that, although the man was usually peaceful, especially during the summer, his bouts of insanity were frequent enough, violent enough, and unpredictable enough that the local community felt it had no choice but to keep him confined. I'm sorry that I don't remember more details and sources; no doubt I've gotten things wrong. If you're truly interested in this subject, e-mail me and I'll track down the professor that you might talk with her. My vague impression is that the concept of mercy was prominent in the Middle Ages. True, some punishments were hideous, but rebels and criminals were pardoned with some frequency. Didn't some kingdoms have the custom of pardoning all criminals on the accession of a new king? The idea of mercy, I suppose, is related to the "forgive me my tresspasses, as I forgive those who tresspass against me" clause in the Paternoster; we're all sinners drawn to sin, so I should be forgiving, since I will need forgiveness sooner or later. -- Daniel de Lincoln, Steppes, Ansteorra Tim McDaniel Dallas, TX From: Antoinette of Lapland Date: January 28, 2008 8:20:07 PM CST To: Bryn Gwlad Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Madness takes its toll . . . I've asked myself to provide some potent quotes. A No excellent soul is exempt from a little madness. - Aristotle For to see my Tom of Bedlam, 10,000 miles I'd travel Mad Maudlin goes on dirty toes, to save her shoes from gravel. Still I sing bonnie boys, bonnie mad boys, Bedlam boys are bonnie For they all go bare and they live by the air, And they want no drink nor money. Old English Folk Song O, matter and impertinency mixed, reason in madness. - Shakespeare Aaah-ah yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er'yeht dnA seot dna sbmuht rieht elddiwt dnA elims dna tis ohw srevaew teksab dnA sdrib gniprihc dna srewolf dna seert htiw emoh yppah eht oT - Napolean XIV Edited by Mark S. Harris per-insanity-msg Page 12 of 12