p-swears-msg - 10/1/11
Period swears, oaths and insults. euphemisms.
NOTE: See also the files: p-songs-msg, languages-msg, Latin-msg, Latin-online-art, P-Polit-Songs-art.
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From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 10 Nov 1993 02:25:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Jeff Suzuki <jeffs at math.bu.EDU> wrote:
>Here's a novel question that came up: period swears. Hey, if we're
>trying to get into persona, why not discover how your persona would
>have reacted to something?
>
>Anyone want to supply other epithets?
The various characters in the medieval Welsh stories collectively known
as the Mabinogi mostly go around swearing "I rof i a Duw" (Between me
and God!), but my favorite from this source is slightly more long-
winded:
Taw hyd y mynnych, ni bu fusgrellach gwr ar ei synwyr ei hun nog ry
fuost ti.
"Be silent as long as you like, never was there a feebler man in his
own wits than you have been."
Keridwen f. Morgan Glasfryn; West, Mists, Mists
From: moonman at camelot.bradley.edu (Craig Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 9 Nov 1993 22:32:37 -0600
Organization: House of the Moss Rose
hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) writes:
>>Here's a novel question that came up: period swears. Hey, if we're
>>trying to get into persona, why not discover how your persona would
>>have reacted to something?
>>Anyone want to supply other epithets?
The Elizabethan bravos are said to have said: "God send me no
more need of thee!"
Cristobal Colon's oath of choice, according to his son,
was: "God take you!"
--
Craig\The Moonman\Levin Pedro de Alcazar
moonman at camelot.bradley.edu Shire of Dernehealde, Midrealm
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ephraim at NCoast.ORG (Kenneth Robinson)
Subject: Re: period swears
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 23:54:00 GMT
Unto the Rialto doth Ld. Ephraim ben Shlomo send Greetings:
Regarding period swears, I don't know if this is quite period -- it
may be 100 years or so too late, for all I know. But I recall it
vividly. Perhaps someone knows if it's period?
I recall it as follows:
"Cursed be the blacksmith that forged the axe which felled the tree
from which was carved the headboard of the bed of the parents of
the driver of the carriage in which your mother and father first met."
Actually sounds kind of silly-Victorian, come to think of it. Enjoy.
--Ephraim.
From: mary at ossi.com (Mary Seabrook)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 10 Nov 1993 09:04:54 -0800
Organization: Fujitsu Open Systems Solutions, Inc.
In article <9311091711.AA15010 at math.bu.edu>,
Jeff Suzuki <jeffs at math.bu.EDU> wrote:
>
>Here's a novel question that came up: period swears. Hey, if we're
>trying to get into persona, why not discover how your persona would
>have reacted to something?
>
>Anyone want to supply other epithets?
I always rather liked the shakespearian
Macbeth, Act V, Scene III
"The devil damn thee black, thou cream-faced loon!
Where gott'st thou that goose look?"
It just appeals to my sense of the ridiculous I suppose!
Elizabeth Fairweather
--
mary at ossi.com
+1 510 652 6200 x 124
From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 11 Nov 1993 05:08:16 GMT
Organization: Cornell Law School
As I recall, William the Marshall's favorite was: "By the legs of Jesus."
David/(Cariadoc)
DDF2 at Cornell.Edu
From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 11 Nov 1993 12:26:24 -0500
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto
Greetings---
Both the Chaucerian and Elizabethan Handbooks include sections on
insults and oaths, from mild to strong.
My favourite is to give someone the "fig of Spain", a rude gesture
equivalent to "the finger" made by forming a fist with the thumb through
the first or second fingers.
at $^%^*ly,
Nicolaa/Susan
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 19:51:40 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research
KENT Fellow, I know thee.
OSWALD What dost thou know me for?
KENT A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a
base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited,
hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a
lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson,
glass-gazing, super-serviceable finical rogue;
one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a
bawd, in way of good service, and art nothing but
the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar,
and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch: one whom I
will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest
the least syllable of thy addition.
OSWALD Why, what a monstrous fellow art thou, thus to rail
on one that is neither known of thee nor knows thee!
KENT What a brazen-faced varlet art thou, to deny thou
knowest me! Is it two days ago since I tripped up
thy heels, and beat thee before the king? Draw, you
rogue: for, though it be night, yet the moon
shines; I'll make a sop o' the moonshine of you:
draw, you whoreson cullionly barber-monger, draw.
(Wm. Shakespeare, "King Lear")
One could do worse than learn from a master.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at watson.ibm.com
From: STEWARTL at wood-emh1.ARmy.MIL (LOU STEWART)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period Swears
Date: 12 Nov 1993 10:44:25 -0500
Organization: The Internet
Chaucer's works in the original Middle English are rich in expressions
that relate to deity, someone's physical characteristics, parentage,
and ultimate destination. Absolon's comments when he realized what
he had kissed, or Symkyn's remarks after he learned his guest had
sported with his daughter are heartfelt expressions of emotion. All
of the Chaucer "translations" I have read are very tame, and lacking
the spice of the original. It's a good bet that the _Decameron_ is
equally eloquent if read in the original Italian; however, the English
version is very bland.
Luigsech ni Ifearnain, Calanais Nuadh, Calontir
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 12 Nov 93 18:06:54 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
In article <1993Nov12.070049.24904 at muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>,
Diana Parker <parkerd at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
>
>Unfortunately I no longer remember the Arabic wording for this one but how
>about, "May a thousand camels defecate on the graves of your ancestors."
I understand there's a Russian one that says "Your brother and sister are
committing incest on your mother's grave."
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
From: harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold Kraus Jr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 12 Nov 1993 13:09:26 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
The good Fujimoto asked:
>Here's a novel question that came up: period swears. Hey, if we're
>trying to get into persona, why not discover how your persona would
>have reacted to something?
>For example, Fujimoto might label someone "low class" or "stupid" (in
>the appropriate language, of course).
The Volga Germans I grew up with had a number of swears, many of
which should go back to Germany of the 1700's at the latest.
I feel comforable using the two in persona:
Swine Hund! (Schvine Hoont) = low class
Dummer Shicher [sp?] (dooma shiesha) == stupid
Another Volga German coloquialism out of use by my childhood was
"He swears like a Turk." I figure that this would be OOP for an
SCA German persona. Would it?
Harald Isenross, Spinning Winds, Calontir, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu
From: cjcannon at ucdavis.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE: Period Swears
Date: 12 Nov 93 11:07:07 GMT
Organization: The Internet
" 'Od's bodkins!" ought not to be omitted--also Wm. Shakespeare, as was a
friend's favorite pejoritive phrase: "Out, out, cursed weed, that roots
thyself in Lethe's shore!" I forget which work(s) they're used in.--cjc
From: slv3m at cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 13 Nov 93 13:31:26 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
In article <2c0n16INNb3g at matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold Kraus Jr) writes:
> The good Fujimoto asked:
>
>>Here's a novel question that came up: period swears. Hey, if we're
>>trying to get into persona, why not discover how your persona would
>>have reacted to something?
>
> The Volga Germans I grew up with had a number of swears, many of
> which should go back to Germany of the 1700's at the latest.
> I feel comforable using the two in persona:
>
> Swine Hund! (Schvine Hoont) = low class
>
> Dummer Shicher [sp?] (dooma shiesha) == stupid
>
> Another Volga German coloquialism out of use by my childhood was
> "He swears like a Turk." I figure that this would be OOP for an
> SCA German persona. Would it?
>
>
> Harald Isenross, Spinning Winds, Calontir, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Harald,
You forgot the literal translations... "Pig Dog" and "Dumb Shit".
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's right.
Gillian
From: fnklshtn at axp1.acf.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 13 Nov 1993 23:36:50 GMT
Organization: New York University, NY, NY
In article <2c0jbu$7fb at agate.berkeley.edu>, djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <1993Nov12.070049.24904 at muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>,
>Diana Parker <parkerd at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Unfortunately I no longer remember the Arabic wording for this one but how
>>about, "May a thousand camels defecate on the graves of your ancestors."
>
>I understand there's a Russian one that says "Your brother and sister are
>committing incest on your mother's grave."
Do you mean in period?
It certainly does not seem to exhist in modern usage.
I've been around some seriously foul mouthed russians but I never heard that
one.
On that note -
I don't have documentation for it in period but a popular thing to call a
person is "Herod", the russians pronounce the name "Yirod" - the word implies
cruelty or nastiness.
It seems logical that it was used for a very long time -
It's been over eighty years since the revolution. Most russians know nothing
of Christian stories or Jewish history from that time period. For the insult to
survive strongly in common usage to this day, it must have been well set into
the psyche of the russian people. I'm guessing at least 15th century.
Yes No?
Nahum
>
>
>Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
>Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
>Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 14 Nov 1993 06:34:26 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
In article <2c3r2i$1ss at cmcl2.NYU.EDU>, <fnklshtn at axp1.acf.nyu.edu> wrote:
>In article <2c0jbu$7fb at agate.berkeley.edu>, djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>
>>I understand there's a Russian one that says "Your brother and sister are
>>committing incest on your mother's grave."
>
>Do you mean in period?
>It certainly does not seem to exist in modern usage.
>I've been around some seriously foul mouthed russians but I never heard that
>one.
I got that from Duke Siegfried von Ho"flichskeit, who back in the year
AS -2 or so was stationed in West Berlin and had all sorts of adventures.
Maybe he ran into some fouler-mouthed Russians than you did.
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
From: kiev at ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Carl Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Swears
Date: 14 Nov 1993 17:50:32 GMT
Organization: MIT
In article <9311121512.AA25106 at NISC.SRI.COM> STEWARTL at wood-emh1.ARmy.MIL (LOU STEWART) writes:
>Chaucer's works in the original Middle English are rich in expressions ...
> ...
> It's a good bet that the _Decameron_ is
>equally eloquent if read in the original Italian; however, the English
>version is very bland.
>Luigsech ni Ifearnain, Calanais Nuadh, Calontir
There are many English transations of Boccaccio, and most are, indeed,
terribly bland. I recommend the Musa & Bondanella translation (Penguin);
their work reflects no prudery at all and is genuinely readable and
funny throughout.
--Alexander of Kiev
Carolingia, East Kingdom
kiev at athena.mit.edu
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Swearing
Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:04:19 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Broad but useful generalization: Catholic swearing is blasphemous;
Protestant swearing is scatological.
Caveat: the habits do take a while to change. Thus the late 16th
century Englishman, who is a Protestant now, will probably still
swear "By God's wounds!" like his Catholic grandfather. Whereas their
20th-century descendant will say "Oh, shit" or something.
Period, blasphemous swearing. Any holy name. God, Jesus, Mary,
any saint. Any of their body parts or attributes. Any of the
instruments of Passion or martyrdom. Anything that would be in bad
taste to a pious Catholic--otherwise it wouldn't be swearing,
would it.
Where it is coming from is that you would swear by God, or a saint,
or by a holy relic, or any other sacred concept to which you were
devoted, if you were taking a very serious oath.
And then it degenerates into mere swearing--e.g., "By the Bleeding
Body of Christ, I swear this ale isn't fit to drink."
Real period, real offensive. Particularly if you are in the company
of real Catholics, or are one; I am, and I found the foregoing paragraph
rather difficult to type.
Better to go with some saint's attributes, real or invented. "By Saint
Catherine's Wheel" refers to the instrument of her martyrdom. Not nearly
so offensive. And "By St. Catherine's Forty Books of Philosophy"
would be even less so. Catherine confounded forty (I think it was forty)
pagan philosophers, but it's unlikely she used one book apiece on them.
Another one I've heard--"By the twenty-four balls of the Twelve Apostles!"
but I don't know if that one was used in period.
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
From: holsten at golden.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Swearing
Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:42:34 GMT
Organization: U.C. College of Natural Resources
I happen to have the script to a late 16th cen., English play in front
of me right now. (Ralph Roister Doister, by Nicholas Udall) Some of
the expletives, insulting names, and "swearings" include:
By His arms
By Sweet Saint Anne
By Cock
Marry
By the Mass (or By the Matte, which means the same thing)
Kock's Nowns (God's wounds)
Gog's arms, knave (and no, Gog isn't misspelled)
old trot
foolish harebrain
Nomine Patris
Yea Jesus! William! Zee law!
You great calf (fool)
wagpasty (mischievous rascal)
Arms
daw (fool)
By the arms of Calais
By Cock's precious potstick (This is one of my personal favorites.)
By the cross of my sword
A shame take him
You goose
lozel (lout)
Pick thee hence (Get out of here. It's not really an insult, but I like
it anyway.)
By God's grace
For the pash (passion) of God/our sweet Lord Jesus Christ
whoresons
bones (darn)
by Saint Marie
And that doesn't even begin to touch the picturesque phrases that only
make sense when used in context that were used throughout the play to tell
someone off.
I hope that's the sort of thing you were looking for.
Joanna
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Swearing
Date: 11 Nov 1993 21:55:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
In article <2bu83q$ggp at agate.berkeley.edu>,
<holsten at golden.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>I happen to have the script to a late 16th cen., English play in front
>of me right now. (Ralph Roister Doister, by Nicholas Udall) Some of
>the expletives, insulting names, and "swearings" include:
>
....
>By Cock
>Marry
...
>Kock's Nowns (God's wounds)
>Gog's arms, knave (and no, Gog isn't misspelled)
>By Cock's precious potstick (This is one of my personal favorites.)
"Cock/Kock" is a euphemism for "God" (no, it isn't what you thought,
that would be scatological, or Protestant swearing).
I got that from the Kittredge notes to _Hamlet._ "Young men will do't
if they are come to't," Ophelia sings, "By Cock they are to blame."
"Marry" is "by Saint Mary".
Thanks for the input. I'm looking forward to seeing "Ralph" this
weekend.
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
From: sharons at juliet.ll.mit.EDU (Sharon Stanfill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period swearing
Date: 12 Nov 1993 11:02:34 -0500
Organization: The Internet
I highly recommend "Shakespeare's Insults" by Wayne Hill & Cynthia Ottchen,
ISBN 0-9518684-0-3, MainSail Press. It's a collection, sorted several ways,
of all insults in the bard's works.... Some samples:
"I will knog your urinal about your knave's cogscomb for missing your
meetings and appointments"
"His face is Lucifer's privy-kitchen, where he does nothing but roast
malt-worms."
Nesta ferch Meriaoc Hartley
From: dickeney at access.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: How I swear in period and other fun things
Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:19:34 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Has anyone noted the methods for NOT swearing? There were not only
pungent comments but comments which pointedly avoided profanity -- such
as Benedick's exclamation "By this day, she (Beatrice) is a fair lady".
He was swearing "per diem", by the day, to avoid "per deum", by god.
|-- Vuong Manh (dickeney at access.digex.com) Storvik, Atlantia |
|"Everything difficult becomes easier with chocolate!" |
From: harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold Kraus Jr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 15 Nov 1993 13:55:59 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Ahoy! First I'll talk a bit about my two swears of questionable
vintage and then offer a couple of theologically related swears.
The good Gillian responded to my Volga German swears:
to wit:
>> Swine Hund! (Schvine Hoont) = low class
>>
>> Dummer Shicher [sp?] (dooma shiesha) == stupid
> You forgot the literal translations... "Pig Dog" and "Dumb Shit".
>Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's right.
Oh. If you must be so literal, Gillian. But one thing I like about
swearing in German is that the object of your scorn can get a pretty
"goot" ideal of what you mean while you get added points for style
and/or persona. Chriss Croughton asks what a Pig Dog is (A dog for
pig hearding?). I had always known it as an insult. I quess that
the idea behind swine-hund is to say that some one has the derogatory
traits of both a swine and a hund, but I did not invent the phase.
To Dave Aronson who says that "dummer shiecher" is modern: Given
what folks have said here about scatalogical epithats being protestant
and moderns, I'd say that you're probably right. Period "Lootrins"
(Lutherans) would probably use the old Catholic swears to swear at
the old Catholics. Swine-hunt may well be modern, but I doubt that
a German didn't ever find cause to call one or more of his neighbors
a "dirty" dog or pig from time to time so Harald will just use the
German word in persona should the need arise. :) But then, I
have been known to fall prey to the notion that using a contenental
translation will make OOP speech less so.
A couple more Volga German (old "Cherman Cat'lic Rooshians")
swears from my childhood:
Gott in Himmel! == God, By God, or Oh-my-God
alt: Glory be (Mosel toff)
Lit: God in Heaven
foit Divel [sp?] == P.U.! (could well be modern usage), bad, foul
Lit: for/from/of the devil (or so I was told)
Maybe period, maybe not, but certainly old and fun none-the-less.
Harald Isenross, Spinning Winds, Calontir, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mikeh at moci.uucp (Mike Huber)
Subject: Re: period swears
Organization: ICOM, Inc.
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 20:55:31 GMT
I'm not sure how old it is, but the saying
All his Swans are Geese
is not particularly complimentary.
Anaximander
From: diablu at dorsai.dorsai.org (Dwayne Herron)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period swears
Date: 19 Nov 1993 08:34:59 -0500
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy
Tim (Tim at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org) wrote:
: Scripsit Fujimoto:
: JS> Here's a novel question that came up: period swears. Hey, if we're
: JS> trying to get into persona, why not discover how your persona would
: JS> have reacted to something?
: JS> For example, Fujimoto might label someone "low class" or "stupid" (in
: JS> the appropriate language, of course).
: JS> OTOH, Tio might be labelled a "mathematician" by his enemies...
: JS> Anyone want to supply other epithets?
I believe that in Arabic there was a particularly nasty comment "May your life
be filled with Lawyers" (apparently they felt the same way that I do :{) )
Peace, Love, and Chocolate Chip Cookies
Diablu
From: brandon at cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Insults
Date: 21 Nov 93 14:21:28 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
brandon at cc.usu.edu writes:
> I'll look again tomorrow if anybody is interested, and get the title etc.
I couldn’t help it :) I stopped by hastings and bought it, here are the specs:
Wicked Words: A Treasury of Curses, Insults, Put-Downs, and Other
Formerly Unprintable Terms from Anglo-Saxon Times
to the Present
by: Hugh Rawson
Publisher: Crown Publishers Inc
201 East 50th Street
New York, New York, 10022
ISBN: 0-517-57334-2 (9 780517 573341 [90000])
435 pages--hard bound (cover price 24.95 (sale price 4.95))
Its a great book :)
-Treon Mac Cuill
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Period Insults
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 18:17:36 GMT
If you liked Hugh Rawson's book, you might also like
"A Dictionary of Euphemisms and other Double Talk" by Hugh
Rawson.
In it, he postulates that certain "unmentionable" words were
replaced by euphemisms that gradually became unacceptable by the
connotations, so THEY had to be replaced by new euphemisms, etc.
Someplace, in the mists of time, there is the Anglo-Saxon word
that "Fuck" replaced, that was considered to be so obscene by the
Anglo-Saxons that they never wrote it down...maybe it's "Belgium".
Lothar \|/
0
From: folo at prairienet.org (5/19/94)
To: markh at sphinx
Mail*Link® SMTP RE>F*CK
Glad you're enjoying the Dragonspire books. We've got two more
ready to come out, one at our Crown in two weeks and one for
Pennsic. And as long as people in the SCA keep doing stupid
things, there will be new Dragonspire stories.
The following is condensed from an article on swearing for
reenactors that I did for NEW MEMBER TIMES. From its origin
in the Middle Ages until the end of the 18th century, fuck
was an acceptable if slightly vulgar verb meaning to have
sexual congress. It was used in poetry, etc. However, from
the close of the 18th century until the period after World
War I, the word went underground. Nothing I've read has
been able to chart its progress, but during that century or
so, it developed from a simple verb into the multivaried
word we know today.
I think it's fascinating if completely useless (I just
cannot see a demo where, at the end, "Thank you for your
kind attention, and now we're all going home to fuck.").
Right now I'm trying to track down the use of asshole as
a descriptor rather than an anatomical term. According to
Don Thompson, it was first used as an insult in the
1950s, but that seems rather unlikely to me. If you
encounter any information on this, I would appreciate
hearing it.
Yrs, Folo
--
Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org
Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA)
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Keep it down, guys, this is a *FAMILY* newsgroup..
Date: 11 May 1994 20:42:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Brett W. McCoy <p01335 at psilink.com> wrote:
>Or, we can look at it this way -- if we need to swear and curse, keep it
>period, if possible. A group I was in frowned heavily upon modern
>profanity during events, but if we made it period, it was OK (i.e.,
>Conan saying "CROM!" where we would use more obscene sounding terms).
**Nitpick Mode On**
Umm, I think you want to say blasphemous, not obscene, since Crom
was the name of Conan's god. "Goddamn" is blasphemous, "f**k" is
obscene. Somebody told me once (it was in some linguistics class)
that Catholic swearing is blasphemous, Protestant swearing is
obscene. But when I mentioned it on the net (not this group, I
don't think), lots of people posted exceptions.
Certainly blasphemous swearing is period. If you want to be
extra-cautious not to offend, swear by minor saints, not by God
or His Mother, and/or by attributes, not body parts. In other
words, "by St. Lawrence's gridiron" will raise fewer hackles than
"God's guts!"
**Nitpick Mode Off**
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sommerfeld at apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: Keep it down, guys, this is a *FAMILY* newsgroup..
Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 16:37:38 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Chelmsford Site
In article <BKFLYNN.222.0008E017 at email.unc.edu>,
Brian Flynn <BKFLYNN at email.unc.edu> wrote:
>In article <CpLnFC.AEK at apollo.hp.com> sommerfeld at apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld) writes:
>>If you have to insult someone, at least try to be *creative* about
>>it... at a minimum, use the Shakespearian Insult Generator which has
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>been making the rounds lately.
>
>Bill,
>
>I've missed this generator, but it sound like fun. Hints on where to get it?
>
>Uther
Ok, here it is, by popular demand.
CREATE YOUR OWN SHAKESPEAREAN INSULTS by Jerry Maguire, who
teaches English at Center Grove High School in Greenwood, Indiana.
Combine one word from each of the three columns below, prefaced
with "Thou":
Column 1 Column 2 Column 3
artless base-court apple-john
bawdy bat-fowling baggage
beslubbering beef-witted barnacle
bootless beetle-headed bladder
churlish boil-brained boar-pig
cockered clapper-clawed bugbear
clouted clay-brained bum-bailey
craven common-kissing canker-blossom
currish crook-pated clack-dish
dankish dismal-dreaming clotpole
dissembling dizzy-eyed coxcomb
droning doghearted codpiece
errant dread-bolted death-token
fawning earth-vexing dewberry
fobbing elf-skinned flap-dragon
froward fat-kidneyed flax-wench
frothy fen-sucked flirt-gill
gleeking flap-mouthed foot-licker
goatish fly-bitten fustilarian
gorbellied folly-fallen giglet
impertinent fool-born gudgeon
infectious full-gorged haggard
jarring guts-griping harpy
loggerheaded half-faced hedge-pig
lumpish hasty-witted horn-beast
mammering hedge-born hugger-mugger
mangled hell-hated jolthead
mewling idle-headed lewdster
paunchy ill-breeding lout
pribbling ill-nurtured maggot-pie
puking knotty-pated malt-worm
puny milk-livered mammet
quailing motley-minded measle
rank onion-eyed minnow
reeky plume-plucked miscreant
roguish pottle-deep moldwarp
ruttish pox-marked mumble-news
saucy reeling-ripe nut-hook
spleeny rough-hewn pigeon-egg
spongy rude-growing pignut
surly rump-fed puttock
tottering shard-borne pumpion
unmuzzled sheep-biting ratsbane
vain spur-galled scut
venomed swag-bellied skainsmate
villainous tardy-gaited strumpet
warped tickle-brained varlet
wayward toad-spotted vassal
weedy urchin-snouted whey-face
yeasty weather-bitten wagtail
From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: TW #20 / English Penis
Date: 16 Feb 1995 01:01:25 -0500
Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs
>In article <3hpale$ldh at mack.rt66.com>, sdodd at mack.rt66.com (Sandra Dodd)
writes:
>>And last but not least, what is the Old English word for "penis"? What
>>is it in
>>German? Swedish? Icelandic? What were they before all our body parts
>>were euphemised?
I don't know the OE word for "penis" off the top of my head and I don't
have the appropriate reference books at hand. However, the usual
dictionaries to consult are:
G.K. Jember, _English-Old English Dictionary_
J. Bosworth, _An Anglo-Saxon Dictionary_
A.P. Borden, _A Comprehensive Old English Dictionary_
You might also try going from Latin to OE through the standard glosses:
W.M. Lindsay, _The Corpus, Epinal, and Leyden Glossaries_
H.D. Meritt, _Old English Glosses_
A.S. Napier, _Old English Glosses_
(I don't recall the editor, but it was published in Copenhagen in
the late 1980s), _The Epinal, Erfurt, Werden and Corpus Glossaries_
For Old Icelandic, try: G.T. Zoega, _A Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic_.
If anybody had told me a year ago that I'd be telling Aeflaed how to find
"penis" in Old English, I'd have thought he was nuts -- but I've done a
lot of things in the past year I never thought I'd do.
Greg/Hossein
From: sdodd at mack.rt66.com (Sandra Dodd)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: TW #20 / English Penis
Date: 16 Feb 1995 09:44:48 -0700
Organization: Engineering International Inc., Public Internet Access
Thanks for the help, folks! I got info on Duke Stephen by e-mail, and on
penises in public. <g>
So we've got schlong (Yiddish, possibly even before Brooklyn)
Schwanz (maybe/prob'ly German)
and Pizzle (OED says that's from Dutch, in English in early 16th C, has
to do linguistically with sinew, string, whip--bull-penises used as whips
(!?)
and thanks, Hossein, for places to look for an older, finer answer.
These are fun, though, while I'm waiting. <g> I don't suppose I'm in a
hurry to know. I wasn't going to enter an A&S competition with it (but
heck, why not--they're usually so boring...)
AElflaed, Mistress of the Laurel, smart-ass
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: TW #20 / English Penis
Date: 18 Feb 1995 03:59:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Sandra Dodd (sdodd at mack.rt66.com) wrote:
: Thanks for the help, folks! I got info on Duke Stephen by e-mail, and on
: penises in public. <g>
: So we've got schlong (Yiddish, possibly even before Brooklyn)
I would guess from German "Schlange", i.e. "snake".
: Schwanz (maybe/prob'ly German)
Primary meaning "tail".
: and Pizzle (OED says that's from Dutch, in English in early 16th C, has
: to do linguistically with sinew, string, whip--bull-penises used as whips
So we still haven't gotten back to a "pre-euphemization" level. If I may
suggest a linguist's hypothesis -- an object as culturally important and
fraught with anxiety as the reproductive organs is likely _always_ to
have been the subject of taboo-word substitution, as far back as people
were talking about them. I won't say that I think it's impossible to find
a name for sexual organs that has _not_ been borrowed metaphorically from
some other object, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if that were the
case. Despite what some people would have you think, hangups about sex
and reproduction are not a product of post-industrial society.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
From: 2Lt Aryeh JS Nusbacher <nusbacher-a at rmc.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: TW #20 / English Penis
Date: 18 Feb 1995 21:18:43 GMT
Organization: Royal Military College of Canada
v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN) wrote:
> "Schlong" is Yiddish, and as yiddish is very Middle German,
And it means "snake". "Schmuck" is also Yiddish, and it means
"decoration". The Yiddish word you're looking for is probably
"Schwanz" (occasionally diminished to "Schwaenzl").
Aryk Nusbacher |
Post-Graduate War Studies Programme |
Royal Military College of Canada |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cathal at netcom.com (James Pratt)
Subject: Re: English Penis
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 21:37:48 GMT
: Try these two works as possible references:
: _CHAUCER'S BAWDY_
: _SHAKESPEARE'S BAWDY_.
: Both are compendiums of usages of speech for the respective
: periods of their authors and deal with the risque mode. Both
: as I recall list "pizzle or pizzel" as slang for the organ
: in question.
: Hope this provides some in depth insight.
: Salve,
: Cathal.
From: mittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Penis and Pizzle
Date: 17 Feb 1995 14:29:27 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
The OED says:
penis ('pi:nIs). Pl. penes (-i:z), peni (erron.), penises. [L. penis orig. =
cauda `tail', afterwards as here.] a The intromittent or copulatory organ of
any male animal (in Mammalia also traversed by the urethra).
In Zool. sometimes extended to organs which deposit spermatozoa without
intromission. In Entom. formerly used to include in addition accessory
structures, as claspers.
1676 T. BROWNE Let. 14 June in Wks. (1964) IV. 61 You may observe..the
flattish heart, the Lungs,..the penis, the multiple stomack &c. 1693 tr.
Blancard's Phys. Dict. (ed. 2), Penis, the Yard, made up of two nervous
Bodies, the Channel, Nut, Skin, and Fore-skin, &c. ...
pizzle ('pIz(&schwa.)l). Forms: alpha. 6 peezel, peisill, 7 peezle, 8 pesil;
beta. 6 pys(s)ell, 6-7 pissel(l, 7 pisle, pizell, pizle, pyzel(l, 7- pizzle.
[Occurs from early 16th c. = Flem. pezel, LG. pesel, dim. of OLG. *pisa sinew,
whence MLG. pese, MDutch peze, Dutch pees sinew, string, pizzle. Cf. also
MDutch peserick sinew, string, whip of bull's hide, pizzle, Dutch pezerik,
peesrik, MLG. peserik, LG. (and Ger. dial.) peserick pizzle.] The penis of an
animal; often that of a bull, formerly as a flogging instrument (see BULL
sb.[1] 11 b), now esp. in Austral. cattle- and sheep-rearing terminology.
1523 FITZHERB. Husb. Sect.56 Thoughe he [an ox]..be broken, bothe of tayle
and pysell, yet wyll he fede. 1544 PHAER Regim. Lyfe (1560) H vj b, Take the
peisill of an harte, and drie it into pouder. 1577 B. GOOGE Heresbach's Husb.
(1586) 127 Take the peezel of a Stagge, burne it, and make it in pouder.
1599-1737 Bulls pissell, etc. [see BULL sb.[1] 11 b]. 1693 Phil. Trans. XVII.
976 Of the Whale's Pizzle, and its Use in Physick. ...
Interesting, but not particularly helpful: We still don't know what it was
called before modern the 16th century. Fascinating.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at panix.com
From: gdfirt at aol.com (Gdfirt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: A penis by any other name...
Date: 17 Feb 1995 15:01:16 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
The Yiddish word is schlong, with can also be use for nose in a slang
fashion. But lets not forget schmuck, which translates into prick.
For the Romans, I don't know what latin they used but I do have a book
that documents documentation about sex throughout history. Things like
"When you hear applause in the Roman bathes you know that some moron with
a big penis has just arrived."
If interested I can find it and spread the Roman and Greek (and medieval
Catholic and American Colonial and French, etc.) joy of Sex.
Elisabetta
From: steffan at world.std.COM (Steven H Mesnick)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Translating "Penis"
Date: 18 Feb 1995 12:38:19 -0500
Organization: The Internet
It's amazing what you'll find discussed on the Rialto....
There's a wonderful book called "A Dictionary of Selected Synonyms in the
Principal Indo-European Languages". It has a bit to say on the subject.
Here's way, way more than you ever wanted to know....
4.492 PENIS
It would be futile to repeat in a list the usual euphemistic phrases like
Latin "membrum virile",.... Here are noted those of an inherited group and
some others.
1. Indo-Eur. "*pes-, *pesos-"
Grk. "peos; Lat. "penis" (fr. "*pes-ni-s"), Sanskrit "pasas-" (Avestan),
probably Old High Ger. "faselt", Mod HG "visel", perh. here Grk "posthe"
("penis" in Aristoph., "foreskin" in medical writers).
2. Grk. "aidoion" (Homeric "aidoia" "private parts"; "aidoion" in Aristot.
the reg. word for either male or fem. part) fr. "aidos" (shame). Cf. Mod
HGer. "schamteil", etc.
3. Among the semantic sources of vulgar terms are:
"Pointed object": Dan. "pik", Sw. "pick", Eng. "prick", Welsh/Cornish
"cal", Breton "kalc'h" (cogn w/ Wel. "col" (sting), Ir. "colg" (sword),
Wel. "llost" (sting, dart, penis). Ir. "gae" (spear, penis), Old Eng
"pintel" (Mod Eng "pintle" (a kind of pin or bolt), Mid Low Ger "pint,
pitte", Sw. dialect. "pitt", Old HGer "zumpfo", Mid HGer "zumpfe" (prob.
cogn. w/ Mid Low Ger "timpe", Dutch "tump" (tip, point);...Russ. "chuj"
perh. fr. "chvoj" (pine needle), Skt. "cepa-, cepas-" (cog. Lat. "cippus"
(stake, post), Span. "carajo" (prob fr Vulg Lat "*caracium", Grk
"charakion", dim. of "charaz" (pointed stake), perh. here Wel. "pidyn",
Bret. "pidenn".
"Rod or stalk": Lat. "verpa" (cf Grk "rhapis" [rod]), Lat "virga", Fr
"verge", Mod Ir "slat", Mid Eng "zerde", Mod Eng "yard", Du "roede",
Mod HGer "rute", Church Slavonic "koc^anu^", Albanian "kotsh", Avestan
"fravaxs-".
"Swelling": Lettish "pimpis" (cogn w/ "pempt" [swell]), Czech "pyj" (prob
cogn w/ Lithu. "pusti" (swell), Lat "praeputium" (foreskin), Vulg Lat
"putium" (abstr fr "praeputium" > Rumanian "put,a^", Mod Grk "poutsa".
"Tail": Lat "cauda", Mid Eng "tayl", Mod High Ger "schwanz, zagel".
"Cock" (prob thru 2ary sense of "stopcock, tap" or "cock" [of a gun]).
Mod Eng "cock", Mod HGer "hahn", Ser-Cr "kurac, kocot", Pol "kurek".
"Tool": Mod Eng "tool", Mod Ir "gleas" (means, instrument).
"Weapon": OEng "waepen" (weapon, penis), whence "waepned" (male).
"Power": Old HGer "gimaht", Mid HGer "gemaht", Mod HGer "gemacht" (relat
to OHGer "maht" (power).
"Creation, form": ONorse "skopin"...OEng (ge)sceap (private parts of either
sex).
"Organ for urinating": Sanskrit "medhra-", fr "mih-", Lith "mizius",
Lettish "mislis"....
There's actually more. But that should give you an idea....
Steffan
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ksp8305 at ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.S. Palmer)
Subject: Re: English Penis
Organization: Aethelmerc Libation Front
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 03:09:51 GMT
As I happen to have my English-German Dictionary, I'll answer that
question. Interestingly enough it lists:
Schwanger adj. pregnant
Schwanz m. tail
I'd say there are definite similarities between a tail and a penis. :)
Adelais
--
Karyn Palmer
KSP8305 at ritvax.isc.rit.edu
KSP8305 at ultb.isc.rit.edu
From: Elmar Vogt <vogt at nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: euphemised body parts
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:36:07 GMT
Organization: Regionales Rechenzentrum Erlangen, Germany
jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) wrote:
> AElflaed asks:
>
> >And last but not least, what is the Old English word for "penis"?
> >What is it in German?
Rute, I think. ('Tail', etymologically derived from 'rod', I suppose.
figure...)
>
> On second thought....my Latin-English dictionary doesn't have a
> translation for "penis" (not much of a surprise...I've noticed a lack
> of MANY words in it). "penis" in Latin, however, means "tail", yet I
> know the medical term is "glans penis", which suggests the
> euphemization has been going on a long time.
Without going too much into details, but isn't glans only the front-
most part of the penis?
Come to think of it,
> "labia" is lip and "vagina" is scabbard or sheath...so what words DID
> the Romans use for these body parts??
Probably the very same. In German, 'Scheide' up to this day means
a) scabbard, b) cleft or crevice, and c) vagina. 'Schwanz' may mean
'dick', or tail. Both are used in everyday language. (Err... you know
what I mean.)
Cheers,
Agilmar
--
Elmar Vogt
vogt at nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de
From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: fuck="push"dmanit!
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 23:10:00 -0400
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245
PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH folks. Anyone who tells you fuck is an acronym is
ignorant or a liar.
The truth has been clear for hundreds of years. When a speaker of Old
Germanic wanted to say POLITELY that two folks were, well, nudge, nudge,
wink, wink, know what I mean, know what I mean ... the speaker said they
were "poching" pronounced pucking, aproximately [I don't have an Oxford
English Dictionary with me, or the ability to post accent marks with my
mail reader]
And Old Germanic begat (in part) modern English as generations continued
to copulate successfully, and the "p" turned to an "f" and a euphamism
became a nasty word. Typical linguistics.
Where the folk etymologies that the individual letters stood for something
came from is beyond my knowledge, but I suspect [without necessary
research] those nasty Victorians who Bowdlerized many words and their
definitions.
What bothers me is that here we are, a bunch of historical research types
posting unresearched garbage on the net instead of taking a moment to open a
dictionary and LOOK IT UP FIRST!
In Service,
Aleksandr the Traveller
[david.razler at compudata.com]
NOTE: Please e-mail me any info on a dictionary contradicting the above so I
can thrash the editior and, with any luck, get a correction in the next
printing.
From: RCMANN at delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Chaucer's Girlfriend's C***
Date: 29 Feb 1996 23:45:14 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Quoting pp003060 from a message in rec.org.sca
>In article <4h21ug$ce2 at news.bu.edu>, jeffs at bu.edu (Jeff Suzuki) wrote:
>Jeffs
>> For a number of reasons, I've been tracking down the source of modern
>> English swears/curses/invectives, and came across a reference (in
>> Bryson's _Mother Tongue_, a fun romp through the history of English)
>> that Chaucer uses "c***" fairly frequently in _The Canterbury Tales_,
>> and not as any term particularly opprobrious.
>Where in Chaucer's Canterbuury Tales, did he say?
>Checked my copy of _The Complete Works of Geoffery Chaucer_ ed. Walter
>W. Skeat New York Oxford University Press <ca 1941,> not a mention of
>it in the Glosseries.
It's been a LOOOONG time since I've looked at Chaucer in the
original, but I believe that he spelled the word with a "Q". Try
"queynt" or some variant thereof.
Robin Carroll-Mann *** rcmann at delphi.com
SCA: Brighid ni Chiarain, Settmour Swamp, East
From: david.razler at postoffice.worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Bleu speech
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:58:55 GMT
The following was posted to me when I asked someone to check historicial
linguistic sources:
>"Sacre bleu" is equivalent to "Gods Blood". The reference 'sacre' is to
>"sacred or holy" items. The French use the term 'bleu' to denote happy
>ideas as a general rule, but in this usage the ref. is to Blood. Put the
>two together and what you get is similar to "Gods Blood !". It is
>considered an inappropriate oath in most cases but not really severe enough
>to be punishable. My documentation is a Masters Degree in, and 31 years
>teaching of, French. I've been to France several times and had no problems
>with language.
As it was posted directly to me, I have removed identifiers.
David M. Razler
david.razler at worldnet.att.net
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:49:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tim <Timothy.Moss at newcastle.ac.uk>
To: Mark Harris <mark_harris at quickmail>
Subject: Re: history of mustard
> Thanks. Someone recently posted a humor message to the Ansteorra list
> on how the current expression " f*ck you" came from "pluck yew" and
> the English bowman's signs to the French. It seemed fairly plausible
> until someone pointed out the misconceptions in the story. This seemed
> like it could be something similar. And I didn't want to add it to
> my files and propagate a pun as true.
>
> Stefan
Well, as far as I am aware, the two fingers of the bowmen was true (from
Crecy) as the French would cut off these fingers if they caught the
bowmen. They were a great trophy for the French, akin to the scalp of
white man for american Indians. In fact, we found lots of mummified
fingers in a museum in France.
As to the origin of swear words, I do know that fuck and shit were both Anglo-saxon words. Fuck was a quite acceptable and nice word akin to "to make love" up until the Norman invasion - too many hard consonants for the French to like. Every language apart from English has a nice single word for making love (eg coucher). Shit has always meant dirt. I lived near a "Shit Lane" in Tockholes near Blackburn in Lancashire. This became non-acceptable in cities where the shit would be human waste hence the new taboo meaning.
Tim
From: Paul DeLisle [ferret at hot.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 9:45 PM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] historical questions
> is there any historical data on what a nobleman
> would do when he came before the King and said
> "god save the king." would he kneel, salute, etc?
Hmm..I have no historical/documented data on this...however...I do have a
couple of observations:
"God Save The ______" is not an expression of fealty, an oath, or a direct
address. It is a cheer; much like "God Bless America!" or "Play Ball!" ...As
such, it should be delivered on your feet, with as much enthusiasm as
possible. Oaths, declarations of fealty, and personal audiences should be
delivered/executed on one (or both) knees, because you are *directly*
addressing the Sovereign, and offering yourself to Their leadership (i.e.,
putting yourself "below" them.)
If there is any documentation to the contrary, I'd be very interested to see
it.
In Service, I remain
Alden Pharamond
Tempio, Ansteorra
From: "willowdewisp at juno.com" <willowdewisp at juno.com>
Date: June 25, 2007 1:43:53 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Ansteorra] Persona swearing
While I don't think it is necessary to talk with an accent it sometime adds favor to your persona to add oaths and swear words from period. Our common swear words are not the usally ones from our periods.
I found this site that helps individuals do Elizabeth cussing It is likely that these oaths are good for all European countries from the 10th century to the 16th century. Just like saying, carrying or doing something modern makes people think about the 21th century and ruins the mood for persona play. Saying something period will shock people and pull them into persona play.
http://www.renfaire.com/Language/insults.html
willow
here is the article if you don't want to go to the site
Elizabethan Oaths, Curses, and Insults
Taken from this site
http://www.renfaire.com/Language/insults.html
Are you tempted to say that effin word too often? Modern English is unimaginative when it comes to expletives, contenting itself with a paucity of four-letter equivalents for the range of human distress. This is due in part to television, which favors the quick over the skillful, and likewise to the accelerated requirements of modern life; a passing car permits no more than a few syllables and a gesture.
Some television humor runs counter-current thanks to the to-the-letter FCC restriction on certain dirty words. South Park, Drawn Together, (even Beavis & Butthead -- but with a limited vocabulary) create a shocking verbal effect by creating dirty concepts without the use of the dirty words. Still the pace of the delivery dictates a low complexity. Many shows now employ the dirty words and merely bleep out a fragment.
Five hundred years ago, little in life moved more quickly than a trotting horse. With no media to fill the day, there was nothing but space for song and speech. Elizabethans took a delight with language, weaving together terms to form stinging phrases of wit. Shakespeare himself is thought to have invented (or first published) nearly 1,700 words. This was a period prior to the first English Dictionary (published 1604) where you might stitch together "ale" and "louse" to accuse your neighbor of being an "ale-louse" and no one could gainsay your usage.
For the faire worker, this freedom allows you to be not only period-correct, but to avoid the angry eye of parents with children.
The common equivalent of disgust is fie (f-eye). This is not the eff-word you're thinking of, but more akin to "ugh" or "bleh". Fie upon your artless speech! Fie, away sir! The modern eff-word was in usage by 1500, but the learned Elizabethan would employ the common verb swive. Humorous modern effects result from the use of terms such as pig farker (middle low german "ferken"), which means pig farmer and is rather different from a pig swiver. Careful with this unless you're looking for a fight.
Oaths are an affirmation of truth made upon some object of untarnished purity. Oaths are not taken lightly, to do so forms the basis of swearing -- because one swears an oath (for example, on the Bible in court). The strongest oaths involve swearing by God, for example God's teeth or wounds (Z'wounds). A similar contraction is thought to have turned "By-your-Lady" into the British oath bloody (but in the late 1600s). "By My Trowth" employs the old-english for truth to swear by one's (presumed) honesty (similar to "by my word").
As a faire worker, you can use gentle oaths to spice up your language. Make use of the object most pure to your character for proper effect. As a smith you might swear by your hammer or tongs, a farmer by his plow, a soldier by his sword, a drunkard by his cup. For a humorous effect, employ a double-entendre by swearing against something of dubious virtue: by my gammer's withered leg! Good Elizabethans would not swear by Odin's beard or similar pagan heresy, but that is the right idea.
Curses are an expression of desired harm. A pox upon thee! basically wishes death upon the recipient (either via small pox or syphillis (french pox)). As with oaths, a curse is most effective upon an item of pre-eminent worth. "May thou hammer be brittle!" "May thou plow seize!" "May thou cup be as unto a sieve!" "May thou pigs be set upon by ravens and torne asunder leaving only bespecked bone and curdled fat for which the rats upon to feast!" Particularly serious are those things involving livelihood or reproduction. "May thou fields be fallow, thou mares be barren, and thou tongue be leaden!"
Because you are actively wishing someone harm, curses are best used with other actors and not against the public unless the context is so humorous or the curse so unwieldy and ridiculous that no offense could be taken. Be careful. If in doubt, target an object and not a person: "a pox unto those words" rather than "a pox unto thee".
In modern times, curses have mostly fallen from usage with the exception of damn you and the more direct go to hell. Neither of these is appropriate for the observant Elizabethan.
Insults demean the target in some way by calling into question their abilities, worth, or social position. The notion of demeaning changes over time: calling someone a "farmer" in Elizabethan times generally wouldn't be an insult because nearly everyone was a farmer. But an ale-soused apple john (drunken withered old apple) is unambiguously an insult.
To create florid Elizabethan-like insults, use the lists above to stitch together several terms that reflect poorly upon attributes of your victim. As with modern insults, these are most effective if they have a basis in truth or draw an unflattering comparison. Unlike modern insults, brevity is not of foremost concern.
Examples
You are fat.
By my trowth, thou dost make the millstone seem as a feather what widst thy lard-bloated footfall!
You've got a big mouth.
In sooth, thy dank cavernous tooth-hole consumes all truth and reason!
You are ugly.
Thy vile canker-blossom'd countenance curdles milk and sours beer.
From: Susan McMahill <sueorintx at hotmail.com>
Date: June 25, 2007 1:58:42 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Persona swearing
There is also a book by Geoffrey Hughes called Swearing: A Social
History of Foul Language, Oaths, and Profanity in English that is
quite informative. I was surprised at how modern most of our swear
words are and how swearing changed when Protestantism rose.
Lyneya de Grey
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 15:51:56 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Knights and cooks was Welcome to the
"Sca-cooks" mailing list (Digest mode)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
lathyrus at grandecom.net
Karen Moon wrote:
<<< where the young
knights says that if he does anything wrong, may the cook come out of the
kitchen and strike off his spurs -- >>>
Try page 66 of Henisch's Fast and Feast.
Her footnote refers one to Three Fifteenth Century Chronicles with Historical
Memoranda edited by J. Gairdner. Westminster: Camden Society., n.s. Volume 28,
1880, page 111.
That book is up in full text on Google Books at:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Fik8AAAAIAAJ&;printsec=frontcover&dq=Three+Fifteenth+Century+Chronicles&ei=iog9Sa3aJovCMvqKjYMF
Johnnae
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 07:50:56 +0800
From: Rebecca Lucas <quokkaqueen at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Lochac] Nidh poles, was banner requirements
To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>
> They were done, but not as any kind of Norseish proto heraldry.
It's not heraldic, but Silfren did ask if it was a rallying point... and it may have been, just supernatural one. The best (although 13th century so not very Viking-age) is from Egil's Saga:
"He took in his hand a hazel-pole, and went to a rocky eminence that
looked inward to the mainland. Then he took a horse's head and fixed it
on the pole. After that, in solemn form of curse, he thus spake: 'Here
set I up a curse-pole, and this curse I turn on king Eric and queen
Gunnhilda. (Here he turned the horse's head landwards.) This curse I
turn also on the guardian-spirits who dwell in this land, that they may
all wander astray, nor reach or find their home till they have driven
out of the land king Eric and Gunnhilda."
(http://www.sagadb.org/egils_saga.en)
I'd suggest _that_ would rally the land spirits into doing _something_! And I'm sure it would stir up similar desires in any humans it was aimed at, too. Maybe people had a different idea of 'rally' in mind?
(And I think my comment of it being 'horrifyingly insulting' may have been missed -- if you made a nidh pole you were in *big* trouble and could face being an outlaw. In the outside-the-protection-of-the-law sense, that would likely get you killed very quickly.)
The closest proto-heraldry I can think of is the 'raven banner' but that's the thing -- I can think of *one* piece of heraldry, oftentimes magical, that was reserved for rulers and only used during war. It is not appropriate for the non-warmongering types to have, let alone use.
~Asfridhr
<the end>