names-Norse-msg - 4/13/01
Sources and comments on Norse names.
NOTE: See also the files: names-msg, names-FAQ, Norse-msg, Iceland-msg, fd-Iceland-msg, fd-Norse-msg, pst-Vik-Norse-msg.
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From: mittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: reliable source for viking names?
Date: 2 Jan 1997 12:13:16 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Greetings from Arval! Susan Rankin wrote:
> I'm looking for a reliable source for viking names, both surnames and
> first names.
There was a Compleat Anachronist on Viking Culture (or perhaps it was
titled "Scandinavian Culture") which had a decent article on the subject.
The most accessible book on the subject is Geirr Bassi Haraldsson's "The
Old Norse Name". Celtic Traditions sells is for $5 (CELTIC TRADITIONS,
3366 Laurel Grove South, Jacksonville FL 32223, (904) 886-0326). It is a
very good book, focussed on Icelandic names of the 10th and 11th centuries.
I don't know of anything available on line.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at panix.com
From: Michael Lindberg <lindberg at sun2.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: reliable source for viking name
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:39:51 +0100
Organization: Rechenzentrum der Universitaet Freiburg, Germany
> I'm looking for a reliable source for viking names, both surnames and
> first names. Does anyone know of any good books or perhaps a heraldry web
> site that might be of help? I have not pinned down a location/origin for my
> viking personna yet, hence the term 'viking' rather than Nordic, Icelandic,
> Dane, etc, etc.
Although written a few centuries after the 'viking' period, any
Icelandic Saga would be a good place to start your search for names.
Snorri Sturlason's Heimskringla (sp?), or History of the Kings of Norway,
in my opinion is also just a darned good read. I admit, though, I've not
read the whole thing-yet. It's not part of the Heimskringla, but my
personal favorite is Egil's Saga, full of murder, and deceit, and magic,
and lots and lots of battles, and... Did Snorri write that too or was it
someone else?
Cynric
From: mittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: reliable source for viking name
Date: 2 Jan 1997 15:08:13 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Greetings from Arval! Cynric wrote:
> Although written a few centuries after the 'viking' period, any Icelandic
> Saga would be a good place to start your search for names.
Good suggestion, and there are several good articles published in various
Society publications which contain lists of names from the sagas.
But there is an important caveat: Most translations of the sagas anglicize
the spellings and construction of the names. For example, the Penguin
editions of the sagas are generally excellent, but the all the names are
anglicized. Inflectional endings like "-r" are dropped, non-English
characters like thorn and edh are transliterated, etc.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at panix.com
From: idavis at ix.netcom.com(Irene Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: reliable source for viking name
Date: 5 Jan 1997 19:33:30 GMT
>>But there is an important caveat: Most translations of the sagas anglicize
>>the spellings and construction of the names.
There is a site on the web (darned if I could find my notes this
morning) that is located in Iceland. It is about Snorri and has
translated copies of his sagas on it. My recollection is that it
contains ALL of his sagas, and, being from Iceland, is NOT anglecized
to death. Icelandic sources are excellant for "Viking" names because
they have maintained the Norse naming system to this day. Once you have
pulled together a "plausible name" you should post it on the web for a
"double-check". There are a couple of VERY knowledgeable people with
good reference books who read these notes and will be glad to reply to
inquiries.
Yours in Service,
Eirny Thorvaldsdottir
From: mittle at panix.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: New English name sources c.1300
Date: 24 Mar 1997 14:13:45 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Chandra Spidell (cspidell at asu.edu) wrote:
> I am looking for good sources on Old Norse/Viking Male names.
A good source, and one commonly used by the College of Arms, is "The Old
Norse Name" by Geirr Bassi Haraldsson. It is available from Celtic
Traditions for $5.00 (Celtic Traditions, serwyl at aol.com, 3366 Laurel Grove
South, Jacksonville, FL 32223).
Arval
Subject: ANST - Norse Names, Misconceptions
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 98 23:16:52 MST
From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
CC: m_j_stockton at hotmail.com
Sigiher barcaloo said:
>i have been looking for a norse name fo myself as well for quite some
>time. i also had a hard time trying to figure out my persona. finally i
>settled with a viking persona. as for myself, i am called Sigiher, which
>means " victory sword".
Gunnora replies:
First, the name as shown doesn't mean "victory sword" but rather "victory
army." "Sig-" does mean victory, but "-her" means "war-host" or "army,"
not "sword." Name elements with the meaning of "sword" include:
Brandr (full name, means "sword"), Brand- (prefix), -brandr (suffix)
Brndr [Bro:ndr] (full name, alternate spelling for "Brandr") Brnd-
[Bro:nd-] (prefix). -brnd [-bro:nd] (suffix)
Hjalti (full name, means "hilt"), ____ (not used as a prefix), -hjalti
(suffix)
Hjrr [Hjo:rr] (full name, means "sword"), Hjr- [Hjo:r-] (prefix), ____
(not used as a suffix)
Tyrfingr (proper name, also the name of a famous flaming sword)
Furthermore, no matter what "Sigiher" might mean, this name won't pass -
although the name elements both exist in period, the College of Heralds is
not currently allowing us to "mix and match" legitimate name elements --
you have to show that the name was constructed that way in period.
If you want a name using the "sig" element meaning "victory", you will need
to choose from one of the documentable period names using this construction:
(names using accented or special characters are shown with ASCII
transliterations after in [square brackets] for those whose mailers won't
accept high order bits -- accented characters shown as the letter followed
by an apostrophe, a' or u' -- slashed o is shown as o/ -- thorn shown as TH
-- edth shown as DH)
Sigarr (victorious army)
Sigfastr (victory steady)
Sigfss (victory willing) [Sigfu'ss]
Sighvatr, Sigvatr (victory bold)
Sigmundr (victory protection)
Sigrhaddr (victory hair)
Sigrl (victory invitation) [SigrloDH]
Sigtryggr (victory faithful)
Sigurr, Sigrr (victory rider) [SigurDHr, Sigro/DHr]
Sigvaldi (victory power)
Sigvarr (victory warder) [SigvarDHr]
Sigverkr (victory worker)
Next Sigiher said:
>the tricky thing with viking names is figuring
>out what is a feminine name, and what is a masculine name. some are
>unisex.
To which Gunnora replies:
Old Norse words show their gender in how they are inflected. The closest
to an identical name is still clearly discernable, thus:
Arnrr [ArnTHo'rr] (masculine) -- Arnra [ArnTHo'ra] (feminine)
Bergrr [BergTHo'rr] (masculine) -- Bergra [BergTHo'ra] (feminine)
Dalli (masculine) -- Dalla (feminine)
Finnr (masculine) -- Finna (feminine)
Grmr [Gri'mr] (masculine) -- Grma [Gri'ma] (feminine)
Gulaugr [GuDHlaugr] (masculine) -- Gulaug [GuDHlaug] (feminine)
Guleifr [GuDHleifr] (masculine) -- Guleif [GuDHleif] (feminine)
Hafrr [HafTHorr] (masculine) -- Hafra [HafTHora] (feminine)
Haldrr [Haldo'rr] (masculine) -- Haldra [Haldo'ra] (feminine)
Helgi (masculine) -- Helga (feminine)
Ingi (masculine) -- Inga (feminine)
Kolgrmr [Kolgri'mr] (masculine) -- Kolgrma [Kolgri'ma] (feminine)
Ljtr [Ljo'tr] (masculine) -- Ljt [Ljo't] (feminine)
Ljufvini (masculine) -- Ljufvina (feminine)
Oddleifr (masculine) -- Oddleif (feminine)
Ondttr (masculine) -- Ondtta (feminine)
Solvi (masculine) - Solva (feminine)
Tfi [To'fi] (masculine) -- Tfa [To'fa] (feminine)
Uni (masculine) -- Una (feminine)
rfinnr [THo'rfinnr] (masculine) -- rfinna [THo'rfinna] (feminine)
rgrmr [THo'rgri'mr] (masculine) -- rgrma [THo'rgri'ma] (feminine)
rleifr [THo'rleifr] (masculine) -- rleif [THo'rleif] (feminine)
rljtr [THo'rljo'tr] (masculine) -- rljt [THo'rljo't] (feminine)
rhalli [THo'rhalli] (masculine) -- rhalla [THo'rhalla] (feminine)
roddr [THo'roddr] (masculine) -- rodda [THo'rodda] (feminine)
I was only able to find three instances of a unisex name, and I suspect
that in each of these the sex of the person named is just not recorded
properly in the source material:
Aur [AuDHr] (usually feminine)
Eylaug (one occurrence each)
Nereir [NereiDHr] (one occurrence each)
Sigiher then said:
>the main thing you'll want to look at is the prefix and the
>suffix of the name and what you want it to say. as is in my name the
>prefix "sigi" (which is very common), means "victory", and "her" meaning
>"sword".
Gunnora answers:
No, you can't do this if you want your name to pass the College of Heralds.
You have to find a name that was actually used in period. It *is* a good
idea to find out what the name might mean before registering it so that you
don't get a name that you'd be embarrased to be stuck with the rest of your
SCA career: for instance, Ljtr means "ugly". I will be glad to help you
find out what a given name element means, if anyone has a question.
Fortunately, there are many excellent references that will help you
document Norse names. Landnamabok is very good, being a chronicle of the
settlement of Iceland and recording the names of lots of those settlers.
The sagas are also a good source. Or you can look at books discussing
Norse names, for instance:
Geirr Bassi Haraldsson. The Old Norse Name.
Available from CELTIC TRADITIONS, 3366 Laurel Grove South, Jacksonville FL
32223, (904) 886-0326; they currently list the book at $5.00.
Jensen, Gillian Fellows. Scandinavian Personal Names in Lincolshire and
Yorkshire. Copenhagen: Akademisk Forlag. 1968.
Woolf, Henry Bosley. The Old Germanic Principles of Name-Giving.Baltimore:
Johns Hopkins Press. 1939.
Hale, Christopher J. "Modern Icelandic Personal Bynames."
ScandinavianStudies 53 (1981): 397-404.
Sigiher went on to say:
> i dont have my books with me, but ill see if i can remember
>some prefixes and suffixes. keep in mind that it can be placed either
>way. for example: "Herwodis" (feminine) means sword goddess, as you see
Gunnora says:
"Herwodis" would not mean "sword goddess" - in fact, there is no such name
construction. The closest name is "Herdis" meaning "Army Goddess" or
"Hjrdis" ["Hjo:rdis] (which does mean "sword goddess").
And you most emphatically cannot place a name element in either the prefix
or suffix location at random. There are many name elements that are only
found in one location or the other, but noth both. For instance, the
feminine suffix "-dis" is never used as a prefix (although "Dis" by itself
was a period woman's name). The same is true of the women's name suffixes
"-bjorg" and "-gerr [-gerDHr]", which both appear as a stand-alone name
but never as a name prefix, ever.
Sigiher said next:
>the suffix from my name is the prefix for this feminine name. heres what
>i remember off the top of my head: sigi=victory, hag=thorn(i think),
>wod=god, wodis=goddess, run=secret, gund=battle...
Gunnora corrects this info by saying:
Sig = "victory" -- this is the only one you have correct.
Hag = only occurs in Hagbarr (meaning "with the fine beard")
Wod = a Germanic construction, equivalent to Old Norse r [O'DHr] meaning
"frenzy, rage" - also appears in the name Wodan (German or Anglo-Saxon) or
inn [O'DHinn] (Old Norse), the one-eyed god of wisdom and poetry. This
is *not* used as a name element other than for the god.
s- [A's-] (also appears as s- [O's-]) = "Aesir, a god" used as a name
element (prefix only)
Gu- [GuDH-] = "god" used as a name element (prefix only)
Ragn- or Rgn- [Ro:gn] = "god" used as a name element (prefix only)
Wodis = does not exist.
Ds {Di's] = literally "goddess" but can also mean simply "woman",
frequently used as a suffix in feminine Old Norse names, "-ds" [-di's],
for instance Alds [Aldi's], lfds [A'lfdi's], Arnds [Arndi's], sds
[A'sdi's], Bergds [Bergdi's], Eyds [Eydi's], Geirds [Geirdi's], Hallds
[Halldi's], Herds [Herdi's], Hjrds [Hjo:rdi's], Jds [Jo'di's], Salds
[Saldi's], Valds [Valdi's], Vds [Ve'di's], Vigds [Vigdi's] and rds
[THo'rdi's].
Rn [Ru'n] = this word by itself actually does mean "secret" or "hidden,"
but when found as a name element usually means "rune" as in "a magical
letter of the Norse alphabet". Usually found as a suffix in womens' names,
for instance Dagrn [Dagru'n] or lfrn [U'lfru'n]. This element is found
only once as a prefix in the masculine name Rnlfr
Gunn = "war" always found as a prefix (not "gund" - that's a later
corruption or misspelling) masculine Gunarr, Gunnbjrn [Gunnbjo:rn],
Gunnfarr [GunnfarDHr], Gunnhvatr, Gunni, Gunnlaugr, Gunnl [Gunnlo"DH],
Gunnlfr [Gunno'lfr], Gunnsteinn, Gunnvaldr, feminine Gunnora (documentable
in Old English only), Gunnhildr, Gunnfrr [Gunnfri'DHr], Gunnl
[Gunnlo:DH], Gunnvr [Gunnvo:r]
Sigiher goes on to say:
>i have a very good
>collection of the norse names and what they mean but as i say i dont
>have them with me right now. if you write me and tell me exactly what
>your friend whants his/her name to say i could try to make one for him.
>i hope i have been of at least some assistance. if you are looking for a
>norse name i recomend reading "Rhinegold"
Gunnora replies:
If you are using Stephan Grundy's *FICTION* book Rhinegold, which retells
the continental German tale of Sigfried the Dragon-Slayer from the
Niebelungelied (that would be Volsungasaga to name the OId Norse
equivalent) then I wouldn't count that as "a very good collection of Norse
names".
If you want a great collection of Old Norse names, spend the $5 and get the
Geirr Bassi Haraldsson booklet "The Old Norse Name" (see above for more
info) or check the Glossary of Proper Names in any of the very affordable
Penguin editions of the sagas, or go to an academic library and look for
books in the nomenclature studies section on Old Norse names.
Or, of course, you can write The Viking Answer Lady (myself) and I'll be
glad to help you find a good, documentable Old Norse name that you will
like, and that the College of Heralds will also like.
Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde
Subject: Re: ANST - Norse Names, Misconceptions
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 22:42:37 MST
From: Tim McDaniel <tmcd at crl.com>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Gunnora gave some fine advice and data. I just have a few comments.
On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
wrote:
> >i am called Sigiher, which means " victory sword".
Aside from Gunnora's comments on the meaning ... it is part
of the definition of what a name *is* that it has become
divorced from any derivation. A name is a word that has
become a more arbitrary label. I wasn't named Timothy
because my parents believed I was actually beloved of the
Lord.
As Geirr Bassi notes (p. 5), "The majority of Old Norse
given names are compounds; they consist of two parts, such
as {TH}orbjorn 'Thor+bear', {TH}orsteinn 'Thor+stone',
{TH}orgeirr 'Thor+spear'." Onomasochists call the prefix
the "protheme" and suffix the "deuterotheme". "The
resulting compound need not have any specific meaning;
sometimes the juxtaposition of its two elements suggests a
'meaning compound', but more often not -- for example
Sn{ae}bjorn 'snow+bear' = 'polar bear', but Asbjorn
'god+bear'." I recall reading of Anglo-Saxon examples of
'war+war' and 'war+peace'.
(By the way, the {..} notation is common in the SCA College
of Arms to represent non-ASCII letters in ASCII media. It
is called Da'ud notation, after the inventer, Da'ud ibn
Auda. The curly braces help prevent ambiguity.)
> Furthermore, no matter what "Sigiher" might mean, this
> name won't pass - although the name elements both exist in
> period, the College of Heralds is not currently allowing
> us to "mix and match" legitimate name elements -- you have
> to show that the name was constructed that way in period.
Actually, that happens not to be the case. From the SCA
College of Arms Rules for Submission, part II:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2. Constructed Names - Documented names and words may be
used to form place names, patronymics, epithets, and other
names in a period manner.
Constructed forms must follow the rules for formation of
the appropriate category of name element in the language
from which the documented components are drawn. For
instance, the standard male patronymic in Old Norse
consists of the possessive form of the father's name joined
to the word "son", like "Sveinsson" is the son of Svein.
The documented Old Norse given name "Bjartmarr" could be
used in this construction to form "Bjartmarsson", even if
this particular patronymic was not found in period sources.
Similarly, German towns on rivers regularly use the name of
the river with the word "brueck", like "Innsbrueck", to
indicate the town had a bridge over that river. A new
branch could use the documented German name of the river
"Donau" to construct the name "Donaubrueck".
3. Invented Names - New name elements, whether invented by
the submitter or borrowed from a literary source, may be
used if they follow the rules for name formation from a
linguistic tradition compatible with the domain of the
Society and the name elements used.
Name elements may be created following patterns
demonstrated to have been followed in period naming. Old
English given names, for instance, are frequently composed
of two syllables from a specific pool of name elements.
The given name "AElfmund" could be created using syllables
from the documented names "AElfgar" and "Eadmund" following
the pattern established by similar names in Old English.
Other kinds of patterns can also be found in period naming,
such as patterns of meaning, description, or sound. Such
patterns, if sufficiently defined, may also be used to
invent new name elements. There is a pattern of using
kinds of animals in the English place names "Oxford",
"Swinford" and "Hartford", and so a case could be made for
inventing a similar name like "Sheepford". No name will be
disqualified based solely on its source.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Now, you have to be careful in extrapolation. Older
versions of II.3 had an example that you couldn't justify
"AElfmundegar" from the two examples given. As Gunnora
said, some "themes" are pure prothemes, some are pure
deuterothemes, and some can occur in either place. Also,
it's always two elements in Old Norse. Also, as one swallow
does not make a love^W spring, one or two examples does not
necessarily make a pattern.
So, in this case, you should find several examples of names
starting with "sig-" where it's a protheme, and some with
"-her" where it's a deuterotheme.&n