tattoos-msg

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tattoos-msg - 10/21/99

Period tattoos and body and face decoration. Early Celtic tattoos. Medieval bans. Crusader tattoos. Book referances.

NOTE: See also the files: woad-msg, dyeing-msg.

KEYWORDS: tattoo woad henna substitute

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

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Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Tats in Period

Date: 26 May 1994 01:46:01 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I just picked up TOTAL TATTOO BOOK by Amy Krakow (Warner Books,

ISBN 0-446-67001-4; $11.95; highly recommended for people

interested in getting ink). The following is from the chapter

on "The Tattoo in History":

In Western Europe, pre-Celtic Iberians in

the British Isles tattooed ceremonially and so did

the Gauls. Teutonic peoples tattooed. The Danes, Norse

and Saxons, being more cultured and artistic peoples,

tattooed their family symbols and crests. Scots and

other Anglo-Saxons still tattoo family crests--tattooist

Lyle Tuttle is a well-known example of this practice!

The early history of Western tattooing ended in

AD 787, when Pope Hadrian banned the art form. Tattooing

survived in Britain until the Norman invasion of 1066.

Normans scorned tattoos, but "like Anglo-Saxon kings

before him, King Harold was heavily tattooed. When

his body was recovered from the battlefield of Hastings,

it was identified by the word 'Edith' tattooed over his

heart." (George Burchett, _Memoirs of a Tattooist_) After

the Norman invasion, there's little mention of tattooing

in Western culture from the twelfth to the sixteenth

centuries.

So, okay, you early-period types may not have cannon,

but you do have tats...

Anyway, look up this book (it's just out) if you're

thinking of getting some ink. Nice photos, nice articles

and a list of shops state by state, city by city.

Yrs, Folo (and please note: all Folos got tats)

Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA)

From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: What Did They Call Tattoos Before Captain Cook

Date: 18 Jan 1995 04:08:10 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

This snuck up on me while I was reading a tat book I had just

purchased.

The word "tattoo" appears to be Polynesian in origin and was

introduced into Europe in the 18th century.

Tattoos were known in Europe for thousands of years before

that (although the Church forbade them after about the

millenium, and they were essentially reintroduced in the

18th century).

What were they called in period?

I cannot find any citations that does not use the oop term

"tattoo" to describe bodyart prior to the 18th century. I've

posted on rec.arts.bodyart but figured that the Rialto has

an eclectic enough of a following that someone--historian or

linguist or someone who just picked up an odd piece of

trivia--might know.

Yrs, Folo

Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

Baron Wurm Wald (MidRealm) - Commander Baldwin's (NWTA)

From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: What Did They Call Tattoos Before Captain Cook

Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 07:03:37 GMT

Organization: Penn State University

folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins) writes:

>I cannot find any citations that does not use the oop term

>"tattoo" to describe bodyart prior to the 18th century. I've

>posted on rec.arts.bodyart but figured that the Rialto has

>an eclectic enough of a following that someone--historian or

>linguist or someone who just picked up an odd piece of

>trivia--might know.

The Latin term is compungo and _possibly_ inficio or pictum. the first two

are verbs the last a noun.I have been researching ancient tatooing in

Europe for a couple years. The illumination of the subject is very vague and

questionable esp. in translations. There is new forensic evidence however in

the 5000 year old body recently recovered in the Oetzval region of the Italo-

Austrian Alps. This body had tattoos of stripes and a (+) cross.

Ferret

From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: What Did They Call Tattoos Before Captain Cook

Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:23:31 GMT

Organization: Penn State University

andrixos at aol.com (Andrixos) writes:

>From: andrixos at aol.com (Andrixos)

>Subject: Re: What Did They Call Tattoos Before Captain Cook

>Date: 18 Jan 1995 21:55:44 -0500

>Ferret wrote about Tatooing terminology

>>The Latin term is compungo and _possibly_ inficio or pictum. the first

>two

>>are verbs the last a noun.

>Latin teacher here,

> "pictum" is actually a perfect passive participle from "pingo". It

>means painted. My lexicon emphasizes the needle as a tool immediately

>after a brush. However I b elieve they are referring in general to

>embroidery.

I agree whole heartedly, It is the translators and historians who believe

these terms are indicative of tatooing although they often get liberal

with the original works. As for "blue" folks in the north, they were

neither "blue" nor in the north. The sole source for this was Caesars

description of the Brittani south of the Thames. Althought the common

translation is " All the Brittani, indeed, dye themselves with woad, which

produces a dark blue coloring." the latin reads," Omnes vero se Britanni

vitro inficiunt, quod caeruleum efficit colorem."First there is no mention

of woad as the causative agent and second a better rendering would be "dye

themselves with glazes." There is also the possibility that it read "infect

themselves with glass" which could have been a description of a

scarification ritual which left dark blue scars.

These 1st century southern practices have been placed upon the northern

peoples in an attempt to explain the name Picti which came into use only in

the 3rd century. The comments on the Picts are that they have "designs

carved into their faces by iron", sorry I don't have the latin at hand.

There are however many comments by early authors describing such practices

among the continental peoples. I think Livy, Strabo and Herotodus mention it.

>Picti is the Latin term for those wonderful blue folks to the north.

>Whether it refers to the wonderful shade of blue they use or tattos fits

>into this question, though I lean toward the first, without any

>references to fall back on. Pictophiles?

The name Picti may also refer to their system of writing an large monoliths

with pictograms (as yet undecipherable) this practice is the forerunner of

the stone crosses. Rather than meaning "Painted people" it could mean "

people who make pictures".

Ferret

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Henna

From: rowan at isaac.stonemarche.org (Rowan)

Date: Sun, 14 May 95 10:51:22 EDT

Organization: Stonemarche CoOperative

Does anyone know how to mix henna for dyeing skin? I tried it two years

ago and it left light red marks that went away the day after. I am told

the original recipe involved camel pee, which I do not relish putting on

my body even if I could find some. The henna I used was the Rainbow

Henna sold to dye hair with and I mixed it with hot water and did my

hands in patterns and feet solid. Actually, it did take well on the

fett, which got me little response from fellow middle-easterners but

plenty from those who had read Clan of the Cave bear... (wg)

Damiana Tryphaena Caecilia Violetta di Caprona

(Heraldsbane)

From: moreta at prostar.com (Moreta)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Henna

Date: 16 May 95 12:06:59 PDT

Organization: ProStar Internet Gateway

out of curiosity why are you trying to die your skin with henna (maybe

thats a dumb question.. but.. I have to ask it). From what I know of henna,

and the dyeing process, it should be warm, but it shouldnt burn your skin.

I am not sure with the rainbow whether or not its pure henna or if its a

mixture. also how thick are you making it?

Part of the problem with it staying on or around more than likely has to

do with the oils on your skin. Rather than the strength of the henna or

heat of the paste made. From what I remember of its ussages on the skin,

have been in the dyeing of the palms of the hands and the bottoms of the

feet.. the reason or purpose totally escapes me right now. (ornamentation

I believe is the primary reason.. hmm maybe the brain does function)

You could try adding other herbs to see if you can get a stronger dye,

alkanet (which is a red/orange to my eye) or add some red food dye to the

whole mixture. You also might try using some vinegar in the mixture.

From: Lassman at BldgDafoe.Lan1.UManitoba.CA (Linda Lassman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Henna

Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 23:49:12 GMT

Organization: University of Manitoba

In article <0000054A000021B2 at prostar.com> moreta at prostar.com (Moreta) writes:

>From: moreta at prostar.com (Moreta)

>Subject: Henna

>Date: 16 May 95 12:06:59 PDT

>out of curiosity why are you trying to die your skin with henna (maybe

>thats a dumb question.. but.. I have to ask it). From what I know of henna,

>and the dyeing process, it should be warm, but it shouldnt burn your skin.

>I am not sure with the rainbow whether or not its pure henna or if its a

>mixture. also how thick are you making it?

The autocrats at an Arabic event we did in July a couple of years ago provided

henna in the harem for the ladies at the even to use to dye patterns on their

hands and feet because it was an Arabic sort of thing to do. The henna

started out warm, but cooled off during the day, and was made according to the

directions on the package. The pattern was painted on as thickly as possible

(mostly using sticks rather than brushes) and then left to dry until it

started to flake (about 15-20 min.), then washed off.

While I managed to get my hands scrubbed clean in a few days (except for my

nails), my feet were patterned for about 3 weeks!

- Gabriela dei Clementini d'Orvieto

Barony of Castel Rouge, Midrealm

Winnipeg, Manitoba

From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Anyone seen Braveheart yet?

Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 20:57:56 GMT

Organization: Penn State University

rhonaapfin at aol.com (RhonaapFin) writes:

>From: rhonaapfin at aol.com (RhonaapFin)

>Subject: Re: Anyone seen Braveheart yet?

>Date: 25 May 1995 13:50:07 -0400

>The blue paint is probably intended to simulate woad, which warriors did

>wear in battle. The Picts were known, I believe, for their practice of

>covering themselves with it and running into battle wearing *only* the

>woad and their weapons. But how a Scot ended up with woad I am not

>certain. --Arianrhod

I wonder if the person who came up with the idea of blue paint was a

wargamer ? The old-timers (1960-70s) used to paint celts and picts sky-blue.

I think they never saw anyone painted with woad. Of course there is no

documentation concerning woad per se, Caeser said they were _dark_ blue but

not really how they got that way. Oh well, this is an old rant of mine from

wargaming days. Anyway, that is a far cry from late medieval Scots.

Ferret

From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Anyone seen Braveheart yet?

Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 01:58:36 GMT

Organization: Penn State University

cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) writes:

>What is the bluish pigment used in tatooing? Might it be that rather than

>being *painted* or *dyed* with woad, people were tatooed with woad pigment?

>That seems like just as plausible a theory as any to me.

Well, the whole woad premise is based on an error in translating Caesar in

Gallic Wars. No translation I have seen has corrected it. What Caesar says

is that all the Britons vitro infectunt which is stained themselves with

glazes (painted) or infected themsleves with glass (tattooing). Since he was

familiar with the tattoos he may have commented on the brittons either

because they used painted rather than tatooed, used glass picks to tattoo or

performed scarification practices. All of these could have left the dark

blue color that Caesar describes. Later classical and medieval authors refer

to the "designs cut by iron". Caesar's account is the only non-tattooing

description (maybe he was in error) so they might have been tattoos. In any

case none of the authors mention the coloring agents, "woad" was inserted

by the modern translations.

See Gallic Wars book V page 14

Ferret

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: woad in tattoos

From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)

Date: Sun, 04 Jun 95 09:21:11 EDT

Jan.Wagner at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jan Wagner) writes:

> Dear friend,

> Saw your posting on tatoo and woad. Thought I have no concrete

> evidence to back me up, I really don't believe woad was used for

> tatoos. Ink would be the most likely material for tatoos and is made

> from:water, oak or apple gall (tannic acid), some type of pigment, and

> a binder(gum arabic). I have the feeling woad would break down in the

> skin and eventually fade. The blue-black could have been derived from

> indigo as opposed to woad.

> humbly,

> Companion Gytha Anora ni Keran

> (who has 2 tatoos made with India ink!)

Respected Friend:

The active dye matter in both indigo and woad is the chemical

complex _Indigin_. If indigo remains stable in a tattoo, so will woad;

and if not, not. (Many people have the idea that woad is a paler blue

than indigo. This isn't correct. It just takes more raw woad to produce

a given shade of blue, because pound-for-pound it has less indigin than

Indigo does.)

Yours in service to the Society-

(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F.

Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA

Una Wicca (That Pict)

From: Malcolm Grandis <Malcolm at celtic.demon.co.uk>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: woad in tattoos

Date: 5 Jun 1995 23:05:35 +0100

Organization: None

Woad was certainly used as a tattooing medium in Dark Age Scandinavia

as well as in Iron Age Britain. The earlier ink recipe given would not

work as a tattooing medium anyway. I will e-mail a cookie to anybody

who can work out why!

_ _

Try Our / / Web Page http://ifu.net/html/culture/celts/thecelts.htm

\_ELTI\_

From: Vince Whitmore <rowan at grnf.org>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Woad Page

Date: 17 Jan 1996 18:21:55 GMT

Organization: Grand Rapids Free-Net

I have a Web page I am putting together about woad: the plant, the dye,

the body paint. I have some of it put together, come and check it out

and give me any ideas that you would like to share about it.

Thanks!

Rowan of Wind-tree Tower

Woad Page

http://www.grfn.org/~rowan/woad.html

From: zaphod at zoology.ubc.ca (Lance R. Bailey)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Facial Tattoos

Date: 5 Feb 1997 17:01:39 GMT

Organization: The University of British Columbia

Dennis C. Featherstone (cedar7 at netcom.ca) wrote:

> I am trying to document facial tattoos for 1285 along the Silk Road

> close to Persia & Turkey area.

I teach an ithra class on period body modification. I don't have much in

your geographic/temporal time period, but you might start with

The use and function of tattooing on Moroccan women

Searight, Susan

which is a little removed from your area but would make a starting

point.

devin o raudh

Barony of Lions Gate, An Tir

http://www.lydia.org/~zaphod/sca

From: "Michael Logue" <mplogue at SPAMLESS.mindless.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Arabic Facial Tatoos

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:34:37 -0400

Ghazallah wrote:

>My persona is North African and I really enjoy wearing my patterns of

>facial tatoos. The only problem is, if I draw them in with eyeliner, they

>either smear (even with translucent powder) or fade after a couple hours.

>What can I do for a tatoo that lasts on my face for the whole day?

>Ghazallah al-Qamar

I have recently heard of a semi-permanant ink that can be removed by either

alchohol/facial cream (I don't remember precicly). It was being used for

actors who had the same problem. I beleive it is also used at some tatoo

palours so the customers can "test" drive their tatoo before they have it

permanently affixed. It aparently won't wash of with regular soap or

sweat, but can be readily removed by other means. I would suggest checking

with your local tatooists and ask if they have anything like this.

Michael Logue

mplogue at mindless.com

From: dughall at imap2.asu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Arabic Facial Tatoos

Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:27:57 -0700

Organization: Arizona State University

On 9 Aug 1997, Ghazallah wrote:

> My persona is North African and I really enjoy wearing my patterns of

> facial tatoos. The only problem is, if I draw them in with eyeliner, they

> either smear (even with translucent powder) or fade after a couple hours.

> What can I do for a tatoo that lasts on my face for the whole day?

> Ghazallah al-Qamar

The easiest thing to do is get grease paint... Mehron (brand) grease

paint goes on with a paintbrush (I use it as a clown) powder well and is

very solid for 8-10 hours (yes I have had it on that long) It comes off

with baby oil very easily.

Grrwffwyrr ap Chwith ap Ysoilhaig

Dughall at IMAP2.asu.edu

From: ghazallah at aol.com (Ghazallah)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Arabic Facial Tatoos

Date: 9 Aug 1997 17:15:26 GMT

thanks, everyone! I just wanted to say a bit about Henna. I use it on my

hair and it makes it very strong and shiny. At Pennsic, I put it on my

hands and feet. It lasts on me about a week and is very graceful-looking.

I recommend using different types, though. For hair, I use Rainbow

brand, which is consistent in the color from application to application

and lasts at least until my roots start showing. Mix it with yogurt and

it's easier to wash out, and leaves the hair silky. For hands, go to an

Indian grocery store and buy it pre-mixed in tubes with very fine nozzles.

You can also buy stencils and just slather it on. I love the stuff.

Ghazallah al-Qamar

From: zaphod at zoology.ubc.ca (Lance R. Bailey)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Arabic Facial Tatoos

Date: 9 Aug 1997 20:30:31 GMT

Organization: The University of British Columbia

Jason C Kolton (kolton at kitts.u.arizona.edu) wrote:

> : Ghazallah wrote in article <19970809005501.UAA08364 at ladder01.news.aol.com>.

> : >My persona is North African and I really enjoy wearing my patterns of

> : >facial tatoos. The only problem is, if I draw them in with eyeliner,

> : they either smear (even with translucent powder) or fade

see below

> Would anybody know where I could find sources on this topic. While my

> persona does not wear the tatoos I do love arabic history and never heard

One of the definitive source books is:

Searight, Susan. 1984. The Use and Function of Tattooing on Moroccan

Women (Vol. 1 - 3). New Haven: Human Relations Area Files.

Whose three volume set goes into great detail about tattoos, henna and

herquas. I use it extensively in my ithra class on Period bodyart.

herquas is the practice of drawing on your skin with ink (mixed with a

few things). and is accurate to the morrocan area. it will last at

least a day.

damhi/n o/ ruaidh Gold Key, Barony of Lions Gate, An Tir

(i pronounce it "devin o roah") http://www.lydia.org/~zaphod/sca

From: georg hawks <thegeorg at servtech.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Arabic Facial Tatoos

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:40:55 -0400

Organization: IBM Microelectronics Division

dughall at imap2.asu.edu wrote:

> On 9 Aug 1997, Ghazallah wrote:

> > My persona is North African and I really enjoy wearing my patterns of

> > facial tatoos. The only problem is, if I draw them in with eyeliner, they

> > either smear (even with translucent powder) or fade after a couple hours.

> > What can I do for a tatoo that lasts on my face for the whole day?

> > Ghazallah al-Qamar

> The easiest thing to do is get grease paint... Mehron (brand) grease

> paint goes on with a paintbrush (I use it as a clown) powder well and is

> very solid for 8-10 hours (yes I have had it on that long) It comes off

> with baby oil very easily.

Another tip I learned from a clown, and have used successfully onstage

with heavy makeup under hot lights:

Keep a washcloth soaked in astringent in a cooler- Sea Breeze works very

well. BEFORE putting on any makeup, rub the cold astringent all over

your face. This closes your pores, and it takes longer for your face to

start sweating. This definitely works for a few hours in extreme heat.

georg

non ani sunt permittendi

From: XSimmons <"jls9" at MSG.TI.COM>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Arabic Facial Tatoos

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:23:00 -0500

Ghazallah wrote:

> My persona is North African and I really enjoy wearing my patterns of

> facial tatoos. <SNIP>

> What can I do for a tatoo that lasts on my face for the whole day?

> Ghazallah al-Qamar

Okay, it isn't Period, or a native concoction, but it works. My

Persian personna had the same problem with patterned hands and

feet--hand/finger skin flexes a lot, and you have to handle so many

different items during the day that makeup stuff isn't terribly

practical. Imagine my surprise when a lady suggested washable marker

pens (e.g., "Crayola" brand, which I now use). Black, brown and red are

available to cover all henna/ink needs, and the stuff comes off with

facial scrub. (Stuff with almond shells works great. Soap and a

teaspoon of sugar would possibly also work.)

The slender pen shape draws a fine line with good control for

spectacularly intricate patterns that last at least a day, but come off

at your command. I use brown for hands and fingers, black for first

joints and toes. But that's Persian. (Solid red soles and toes also

Persian.)

Regards, Ly Meara al-Isfahani

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance

Subject: Re: Tattoos

Date: 7 Aug 1997 02:08:10 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Joe Della-Fera (jgandalf at mindspring.com) wrote:

: Since tattooing has been in existance in Europe for a few thousand

: years (witness the "Ice Man" mummy), I've got to ask: What were

: tattoos called during the Medieval and Renaissance periods in Europe?

: (Remember, tattoo is taken from the Polynesian word "tatu".)

There is a flaw in the above logic. We have evidence that tattooing was

done in Europe several thousand years ago; we have evidence that tattooing

is done in Europe today. But that does not prove continuous existence.

_Is_ there any evidence that people were doing tattooing during the

Medieval and Renaissance periods in Europe. After all, people tend to have

words for things they do, and why would the word "tattoo" have been

borrowed for the practice if it were a practice that European people were

already familiar with and had a word for?

To answer my own question about "is there any evidence", I'll note that

when I was researching early references to the Picts, I found that, while

the Classical references use the root "pictum" meaning "painted" to

describe their characteristic feature, by the time we get to the 7th

century writings of Isidore of Seville, he has changed this description to

"their bodies bear designs pricked into their skins by needles" -- I

believe using the word "punctum" (I don't have the original reference

handy, but this seems the obvious origin of the translation). Now, the

difference between "pictum" and "punctum" _could_ be a matter of a bad

copyist or two in the intervening centuries, but the specific description

of "pricked ... by needles" strongly argues a familiarity with a

tattoo-like procedure -- at least on the part of Isidore. (Note that since

the change in the description from "pictum" to "punctum" first shows up in

the 7th century, its use says absolutely _nothing_ about what the Picts

may or may not have done.) On the other hand, Isidore's presumed

familiarity seems to have been at a cultural remove -- i.e., he describes

the process but does not have a distinctive "name" for it (at least in

Latin). But there's a place to start, at least. A 7th century Spaniard was

familiar at some level with a process involving marking designs on the

body by pricking with needles. A useful path to pursue from there would be

to find a library that has a comprehensive dictionary or concordence of

medieval Latin and see if any other writers were useing the verb "pungo"

or the participle "punctum" to describe a tattoo-like process. Keep in

mind that given the location of Seville, he may have been familiar with

the process via contacts with northern Africa, rather than from its use in

Europe, per se.

(If you want to track down the exact citation from Isidore, I took it from

F.T. Wainwright's "The Problem of the Picts" p.1.)

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

From: Rachel Ward <ez064559 at mailbox.ucdavis.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance

Subject: Re: Tattoos

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:07:16 -0700

Organization: University of California, Davis

On 7 Aug 1997, Heather Rose Jones wrote:

> A useful path to pursue from there would be

> to find a library that has a comprehensive dictionary or concordence of

> medieval Latin and see if any other writers were useing the verb "pungo"

> or the participle "punctum" to describe a tattoo-like process.

Latham's _Revised Medieval Latin Word List_ lists "puncto" as

tentatively (i.e., they have a question mark before the meaning) meaning

"to tattoo"--but the dates are way after Isidore, in the 12th century.

"Now is nat that of God a ful fair grace |Rachel Ward

That swich a lewed mannes wit shal pace |Department of English

The wisdom of an heep of lerned men?" |U.C. Davis

Chaucer, _Canterbury Tales_, I 573-575 |rhward at ucdavis.edu

From: dongiulio at aol.com (DonGIULIO)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Tattoos

Date: 8 Aug 1997 01:39:05 GMT

I don't know what they called Tattooing in Europe during the Middle and

Renaissance Periods but, it seems there is evidence that they did Tattoo

in the Middle ages during the crusades to be exact.

Just finished watching A&E's : Ancient Mysteries and they just ran a

program on Tattoos, I highly recommend it if you can catch it. Essentially

gives the History of Tattooing from the "Ice Man" to Modern times quite

fascinating!

Don Giulio d" Medici

G.M. Cavalieri Dell'Ordine de Santo Stefano

"Onore et Onere"

From: Merouda the True of Bornover <keltia at serv.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Tattoos

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:08:26 -0700

DonGIULIO wrote:

> I don't know what they called Tattooing in Europe during the Middle and

> Renaissance Periods but, it seems there is evidence that they did Tattoo

> in the Middle ages during the crusades to be exact.

What they said about tattooing during the Crusades was that the crusaders

themselves had crosses tattooed on their bodies so that if they died they

would be recognized and given a Christian burial. But I don't remember a

mention them during that time for other reasons.

It *was* a good show but oh so short.

Merouda, or she who is 12th century and has a tattoo that gets shown during

hot weather and doesn't really care if it's period or not *grin*

From: Lou Stewart <lhs at ctwok.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Tattoos

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 18:14:34 -0500

Steven Jerkins wrote:

> Now when WAS that papal bull issued that forbade all good christians

> from "adorning their bodies with inks and needles"??

> Stefan

> On Thu, 07 Aug 1997 00:30:19 GMT, jgandalf at mindspring.com (Joe

> Della-Fera) wrote:

> >Since tattooing has been in existance in Europe for a few thousand

> >years (witness the "Ice Man" mummy), I've got to ask: What were

> >tattoos called during the Medieval and Renaissance periods in Europe?

> >(Remember, tattoo is taken from the Polynesian word "tatu".)

> >

> >Joe

In Roman times,the Tracians were well known to the Romans for their

decorative tattooing; Cicero called the marks "punctum notis Thraeciis,"

meaning pricked with Thracian marks. Tertullian, in the 3rd century,

implied that tattooing was the custom of the Britons, Picts and Scots,

and called the marks "Stigmata Britonum." In the 16th century, it

became the custom of pilgrims to Jerusalem to have crosses or other

Christian symbols pricked onto their arms. The practice has been called

"pricking," "marking" or "painting," in English and in equivalent words

in other languages.

I didn't find a reference to a Papal Bull against tattooing, but

Leviticus 19:28 and 21:5, as well as Deuteronomy 14:1 carried

prohibitions against it. At the Synod of Calcuth in Northumberland in

787, all forms of tattooing were forbidden, probably because of pagan

associations.

Hope this helps. Luigsech

From: Glenda Robinson <glendar at antispam.compassnet.com.au>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Arabic Facial Tatoos

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:51:36 +1000

Organization: Flamberge Computer Services

XSimmons wrote:

> Imagine my surprise when a lady suggested washable marker

> pens (e.g., "Crayola" brand, which I now use). Black, brown and red are

> available to cover all henna/ink needs, and the stuff comes off with

> facial scrub. (Stuff with almond shells works great. Soap and a

> teaspoon of sugar would possibly also work.)

> The slender pen shape draws a fine line with good control for

> spectacularly intricate patterns that last at least a day, but come off

> at your command. I use brown for hands and fingers, black for first

> joints and toes. But that's Persian. (Solid red soles and toes also

> Persian.)

> Regards, Ly Meara al-Isfahani

When one of my groups do ancient celtic reenactment, we use "Woadline".

Blue "Artline" brand. Works wonderfully.

However, a word of warning... Use pens that are Xylene free. One of our

mob had a Xylene allergy, which built up with time. This was before they

produced Xylene free ones.

Also, don't use white board markers. They run really quickly.

The only problem with Woadline is that some extremely small bits may get

stick in the hair follicles (not much though) for a few days.

Happy painting

Glenda.

From: SiFiFem at aol.com

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:27:47 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: Sources for Woad

Stefan-

Please add these people to your source list of period herbs, spices and those

hard to find historical feast items. They also carry woad and henna as used

for body tattoo and henna painting. They have been doing SCA on the west

coast for 12 years. Their store is : Dragonmarsh - 3744 Main St .-

Riverside, Ca 92501

- Phone is (909) 276-1116. Thanks

Subject: ANST - Re: Tattoos

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 99 15:48:19 MST

From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

'wolf said:

> question ... how many work their tattoo work into their

> personas / realities ??? know a couple from the "old

> days", but haven't run into any in the current

> days ... any good references on ancient tattoo

> practices ???

Judging by the number of times I get Viking Answer Lady questions on this

topic, a LOT of Norse types out there want authentic Viking tattoos.

The Arabic observer Ibn Fadlan tells us of the Rus Vikings:

"§ 81. Each man has an axe, a sword, and a knife and keeps each by him at

all times. The swords are broad and grooved, of Frankish sort. Every man

is tatooed from finger nails to neck with dark green (or green or

blue-black) trees, figures, etc."

Probably what Ibn Fadlan is describing here is some sort of knotwork or

tendril design.

Of course, the only way we actually will ever have ANY record of period

tattoo designs is from the occasional hapless person who got themselves

frozen or freeze-dried. Under the "frozen" category, we have Otzi the

Iceman. As far as freeze-dried, we have several examples of Scythians

buried in kurgans where the burial chamber was below the level of the

permafrost, which preserved their bodies perfectly.

You can ge some info on both (including pictures of the Scythian tattoos)

at http://www.tattoo.dk/engelske/history-english/oldest.htm

I also have one good book on the Scythians by Renate Rolle that has better

line drawings of the Scythian tatoos as well.

::GUNNORA::

Subject: ANST - More on Tattoos, Scythians, and Celts

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 99 19:47:19 MST

From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

'wolf asked:

> is this a decent resource? have a particular fondness for

> the "horse barbarian" ciltures, especially the scythian and

> was thinking of incorporating something with scythian /

> pictish iconography into the master plan.

Your fondness is perhaps more Celto-tribal than you know. The Romans

fetched with them to Britain fairly large numbers of... you guessed it,

Sarmatian auxiliaries (a people very closely related to the Scythians).

Some very well-researched scholarship beginning with Georges Dumezil, has

gone into quite a lot of detail proving that the origin of the entire Grail

Cycle was these auxiliaries. (For instance,

see http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~tomgreen/arthur.htm)

But even before then, the Celts originally migrated from the area that the

Scythians and Sarmatians called their home, so it is also very possible that

the Celts brought these legends (and art and other cultural baggage) with

them in their migrations north and west.

Here are some sources:

I believe that the first report of Scythian tattoos surviving in

freeze-dried kurgan occupants was in the May 1965 Scientific American.

Rolle, Renate. The World of the Scythians. London: B.T. Batsford. 1980.

ISBN 0520068645. [Contains some very incorrect information, but also has

some of the best pictures of horse trappings, tattoos, and line-art of

Scythian artifacts I've ever seen. Get the book for the pictures. Get

better sources for the real meat of the subject.]

Rudenko, Sergei I. Frozen Tombs of Siberia: the Pazyryk Burials of Iron Age

Horsemen. Berkeley: The University of California Press. 1970.

[Probably the best over-all source on the kurgans and their frozen

inhabitants.]

"Nyt om gammelt m, artikel af Søren Nanche-Krogh om hans tatoveringer".

Skalk No 4, 1969.

[Magazine with article on Scythian tattooing, in Danish.]

Cernenko, E.V. The Scythians: 700 - 300 B.C. Men-at-Arms Series 137.

London: Osprey. 1983. [Very good book -- nice reconstructions of Scythian

costume, arms and armor. No tattoos.]

M. I. Artamonov. Treasures from Scythian tombs in the Hermitage Museum,

Leningrad. ISBN 0500231125.[Contains some of the most famous and most

beautiful photos of Scythian artifacts, particularly the gold belongings of

chieftains.]

Glusker Irwin, Christian von Rosenvinge and Lilly Hollander, eds. From the

Lands of the Scythians: Ancient Treasures from the Museums of the U.S.S.R.,

3000 B.C.-100 B.C. New York: (Museum Catalog) Metropolitan Museum of Art

in conjunction with the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. 1975. [This book

has many gorgeous photos of the most spectacular Scythian art and artifacts

known today. No tattoos, but

lots of very worthwhile art and art design.]

Michael Vickers. Scythian Treasures in Oxford (Ashmolean Museum Archaeology,

History & Classical Studies) Oxford: Ashmolean. 1979. ISBN 0900090618. [I

have a copy of this one. This contains info only on the Scythian artifacts

held at the Ashmolean Museum, and this is a fairly small collection. None

the less, the information is very interesting and there's some nice jewellry

pictured. No tattoos.]

Minns, Ellis H. Scythians and Greeks: A Survey of Ancient History and

Archaeology on the North Coast of the Euxine from the Danube to the

Caucasus. Cambridge: Cambridge Univ. P. 1913. [Very dry, but also very

informative. Predates the frozen kurgan finds.]

Herodotus. Selections from the Persian Wars, Book IV. from The Greek

Historian. ed. Francis R. B. Gondolphin. New York: Random House. 1942.

[This is the famous description of the Scythians and the Sarmatians.]

Here's another website that shows more of the Scythian tattoos... too bad

the book being advertised is $108 -- you might, however, ask Sir Corey or

Lady Jan if they own a copy. The tattoo shop in San Marcos isn't too far to

go to loook at it:

http://www.zapcom.net/~phoenix/TriBible.html