riddles-msg -10/23/08 Medieval riddles. NOTE: See also the files: humor-msg, jokes-msg, flirting-msg, p-swears-msg, p-sex-msg, Love-in-th-MA-art, P-Polit-Songs-art, Jestrs-Mumrs-lnks, jesters-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: drgntale1 at aol.com (DrgnTale1) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Old English Riddles Date: 21 Aug 1997 19:27:02 GMT Work is quiet and I'm bored. So I am going to share with you some research I did back in college (a looong time ago! ;0) ) I was, and am, a student of Old English. While researching in the stacks of the university, I came across a book that fascinated me - riddlery as translated from Old English. It caught my attention so much, that I spent four years of my life concocting an English to Old English Dictionary. Here are two riddles - lets see if you can answer them and the bonus question! 1. My house is not quiet I am not loud; But for us God fashioned our fate together. I am the swifter, at times the stronger, My house more enduring, longer to last. At times I rest; my dwelling still runs; Within it I lodge as long as I live. Should we two be severed, my death is sure. 2. I am a daily dancer obedient to nimble hands. My whirling legs are lead in the dance By other feet. My partner and I are Entwined together at every turn, my Pirouette an echo of my companion's Entreaty. Turn and turn again we create A web from which a man may wrap himself. My feet are wooden as are my arms, but My flying hair is caught and clutched And spiraled into orderliness. Rythm is My heart, timber is my body, work is My soul and my beneficiary is man. Name me. (a spinning wheel) 3. Which of the two riddles above is actually from the Old English time period, and which was written by me? Kira the Persian From: powers at woodstock.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Old English Riddles Date: 22 Aug 1997 08:20:07 -0400 Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science This was enjoyable, thanks; but not a struggle since the Exter riddles would be well known to anyone with an interest in "Old English" and a spinning wheel dates to "middle English". Have you tried to modify your riddle to read as a drop spindle so as to get it applicable to the same period? Perhaps; A women's friend, a young girls foe I'm often dropped but never fall My coat grows after another's lessens When my coat lessens another coat can grow I may dance all day twirling but never get dizzy etc; One source would be "From Age to Age", "Life and Literature in Angle-Saxon England", Bernice Grohskopf wilelm the smith, married to a spinster, maker of soapstone spindle whorls Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:00:11 EST From: Kathleen M Hogan Subject: SC - an early-morning smile - --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- Here's a riddle from the "Exeter Book", an 11th century book written in a monastery, although that's hard to tell sometimes, by the subject matter... I am a strange creature, for I satisfy women... I grow very tall, erect in a bed, I'm hairy underneath. From time to time A beautiful girl, the brave daughter Of some fellow dares to hold me Grips my reddish skin, robs me of my head And puts me in the pantry. At once that girl With plaited hair who has confined me Remembers our meeting. Her eye moistens. Can you guess? Remember, this was written by monks.... [an onion] Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:25:33 -0700 From: "Laura C. Minnick" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seeking bread recipe To: Cooks within the SCA At 08:48 AM 8/19/2004, you wrote: >>>Hence the euphemism, "If Mr. Baker's dough doesn't rise..." (At least it >>>_might_ be a legitimate euphemism, although my source is the >>>Cabbage-Headed Man fro Kids In The Hall sketches, so one never knows...) >>>Adamantius > >Not to mention the Middle English riddle along these lines. Lainie, have >you got it (the riddle) somewhere? I can't remember how it goes. Actually it's Old English (Anglo-Saxon).I think the one you want is Exeter #45 Ic on wincle gefrægn weaxan nathwæt, þindan ond þunian, þecene hebban; on þæt banlease bryd grapode, hygewlonc hondum, hrægle þeahte 5 þrindende þing þeodnes dohtor. in modern English- I'm told a certain something grows in its pouch, swells and stands up, lifts its covering. A proud bride grasped that boneless wonder, the daughter of a king covered that swollen thing with clothing. The answer of course is bread dough. There' also #25- Ic eom wunderlicu wiht, wifum on hyhte, neahbuendum nyt; nængum sceþþe burgsittendra, nymþe bonan anum. Staþol min is steapheah, stonde ic on bedde, 5 neoþan ruh nathwær. Neþeð hwilum ful cyrtenu ceorles dotor, modwlonc meowle, þæt heo on mec gripeð, ræseð mec on reodne, reafað min heafod, fegeð mec on fæsten. Feleþ sona 10 mines gemotes, seo þe mec nearwað, wif wundenlocc. Wæt bið þæt eage. modern English- I'm a strange creature, for I satisfy women, a service to the neighbors! No on suffers at my hands except for my slayer. I grow tall, erect in a bed, I'm hairy underneath. From time to time a good-looking girl, the doughty daughter of some churl dares to hold me, rips my russet skin, robs me of my head and puts me in the pantry. At once that girl with plaited hair who has confined me remembers our meeting. Her eye moistens. And that answer is an onion! (Not bad considering my books are still down south and had to search online!) 'Lainie Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:21:22 +0200 From: UlfR Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seekingbread recipe To: Cooks within the SCA Laura C. Minnick [2004.08.19] wrote: > >Not to mention the Middle English riddle along these lines. Lainie, have > >you got it (the riddle) somewhere? I can't remember how it goes. > > Actually it's Old English (Anglo-Saxon). I think the one you want is Exeter While we are at food content in the Exeter riddles we must not forget number 52: Hyse cwom gangan, þær he hie wisse stondan in wincsele, stop feorran to, hror hægstealdmon, hof his agen hrægl hondum up, hrand under gyrdels hyre stondendre stiþes nathwæt, worhte his willa; wagedan buta. þegn onnette, wæs þragum nyt tillic esne, teorode hwæþre æt stunda gehwam strong ær þon hio, werig þæs weorces. Hyre weaxan ongon under gyrdelse þæt oft gode men ferðþum freogað ond mid feo bicgað. The young man came over to the corner Where he knew she stood. He stepped up, Eager and agile, lifted his tunic With hard hands, thrust through her girdle Something stiff, worked on the standing One his will. Both swayed and shook. The young man hurried, was sometimes useful, Served well, but always tired Sooner than she, weary of the work. Under her girdle began to grow A hero's reward for laying on dough. (a milk churn) /UlfR -- UlfR Ketilson ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 02:48:27 -0700 From: "Laura C. Minnick" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period riddles To: Cooks within the SCA At 12:29 AM 9/13/2004, you wrote: > Lainie gave two period riddles here back on Aug 19 and then said: >> (Not bad considering my books are still down south and had to search >> online!) > Yes, it was. How did you find these online? > I did find and buy a book on (I think. Right now, I can't find it) > Anglo-Saxon riddles at this last Pennsic. > I'd like to be able to do more bardic, and these might be good, although > riddles may be a problem because the entire thing needs to be memorized > word for word. Anyway, more sources or book recommendations would be > excellent, either for the Florilegium or my own use. And probably being > off subject for this list, unless food related, email would be fine. Silly Stefan, now that everyone will want to know... For searches for something like that I start with: http://www.the-orb.net/ The ORB (On-line Resource Book) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook.html The Internet Medieval Sourcebook http://labyrinth.georgetown.edu/ The Labyrinth (Those three being seriously good places to start looking for about anything. If you can't find it there, you're looking for the wrong thing! ;-) It's been nearly a month now, so to best that I can reconstruct my steps, I found the riddles through this path: Starting at the ORB, then click on the Encyclopedia section, top left, which goes to http://www.the-orb.net/encyclo.html, scroll down to 'Literature' and choose Old English, to http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/culture/lit/oldeng.html, select 'Primary Sources' near the top of the page, to http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/ballc/oe/oe-texts.html, and scroll down to 'Riddles', where there are several choices. The first one takes you to http://www.georgetown.edu/labyrinth/library/oe/alpha.html, and if you scroll down you'll find the riddles, numbered in order. They are still in the Anglo-Saxon though- so to find the translation- Dang. Link be broken. Ok- after a Google search I found http://www.technozen.com/exeter/ which has all of them translated, and after consulting the magic memory of Beyondo! (which is 'Lainie-speak for 'Uh, looks ok to me!') I determine that the translations are pretty decent. I have to admit that it helped that I knew what I was looking for. There's bazillions of riddles out there. But only some of them are in the Exeter book! 'Lainie Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:53:21 -0500 From: Stefan li Rous Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period riddles To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks Tonight I was able to spend more time looking and I found the book I had bought. So just in case anyone else might be interested: Anglo-Saxon Riddles by John Porter Anglo-Saxon Books, Norfolk, England 4th reprint, Expanded and Reprinted 2003 ISBN 1-898281-32-7 94 riddles in the original and modern English plus the solutions in modern English with occasional explanations. 137 paages. Paperback. It's marked as 4.95 pounds. I bought it for $8.95 at Pennsic. Stefan -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas Edited by Mark S. Harris riddles-msg 6 of 6