riddles-msg -10/23/08
Medieval riddles.
NOTE: See also the files: humor-msg, jokes-msg, flirting-msg, p-swears-msg, p-sex-msg, Love-in-th-MA-art, P-Polit-Songs-art, Jestrs-Mumrs-lnks, jesters-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
From: drgntale1 at aol.com (DrgnTale1)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Old English Riddles
Date: 21 Aug 1997 19:27:02 GMT
Work is quiet and I'm bored. So I am going to share with you some
research I did back in college (a looong time ago! ;0) ) I was, and am, a
student of Old English. While researching in the stacks of the
university, I came across a book that fascinated me - riddlery as
translated from Old English. It caught my attention so much, that I spent
four years of my life concocting an English to Old English Dictionary.
Here are two riddles - lets see if you can answer them and the bonus
question!
1.
My house is not quiet I am not loud;
But for us God fashioned our fate together.
I am the swifter, at times the stronger,
My house more enduring, longer to last.
At times I rest; my dwelling still runs;
Within it I lodge as long as I live.
Should we two be severed, my death is sure.
2.
I am a daily dancer obedient to nimble hands.
My whirling legs are lead in the dance
By other feet. My partner and I are
Entwined together at every turn, my
Pirouette an echo of my companion's
Entreaty. Turn and turn again we create
A web from which a man may wrap himself.
My feet are wooden as are my arms, but
My flying hair is caught and clutched
And spiraled into orderliness. Rythm is
My heart, timber is my body, work is
My soul and my beneficiary is man.
Name me.
(a spinning wheel)
3. Which of the two riddles above is actually from the Old English time
period, and which was written by me?
Kira the Persian <DragonTale at bigfoot.com>
From: powers at woodstock.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Old English Riddles
Date: 22 Aug 1997 08:20:07 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
This was enjoyable, thanks; but not a struggle since the Exter riddles
would be well known to anyone with an interest in "Old English" and a
spinning wheel dates to "middle English".
Have you tried to modify your riddle to read as a drop spindle so
as to get it applicable to the same period?
Perhaps; A women's friend, a young girls foe
I'm often dropped but never fall
My coat grows after another's lessens
When my coat lessens another coat can grow
I may dance all day twirling but never get dizzy
etc;
One source would be "From Age to Age", "Life and Literature in Angle-Saxon
England", Bernice Grohskopf
wilelm the smith, married to a spinster, maker of soapstone spindle whorls
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:00:11 EST
From: Kathleen M Hogan <kathleen.hogan at juno.com>
Subject: SC - an early-morning smile
- --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
Here's a riddle from the "Exeter Book", an 11th century book written in a
monastery, although that's hard to tell sometimes, by the subject
matter...
I am a strange creature, for I satisfy women...
I grow very tall, erect in a bed,
I'm hairy underneath. From time to time
A beautiful girl, the brave daughter
Of some fellow dares to hold me
Grips my reddish skin, robs me of my head
And puts me in the pantry. At once that girl
With plaited hair who has confined me
Remembers our meeting. Her eye moistens.
Can you guess? Remember, this was written by monks....
[an onion]
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:25:33 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seeking bread recipe
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
At 08:48 AM 8/19/2004, you wrote:
>>>Hence the euphemism, "If Mr. Baker's dough doesn't rise..." (At least it
>>>_might_ be a legitimate euphemism, although my source is the
>>>Cabbage-Headed Man fro Kids In The Hall sketches, so one never knows...)
>>>Adamantius
>
>Not to mention the Middle English riddle along these lines. Lainie, have
>you got it (the riddle) somewhere? I can't remember how it goes.
Actually it's Old English (Anglo-Saxon).I think the one you want is Exeter #45
Ic on wincle gefr¾gn weaxan nathw¾t,
þindan ond þunian, þecene hebban;
on þ¾t banlease bryd grapode,
hygewlonc hondum, hr¾gle þeahte
5
þrindende þing þeodnes dohtor.
in modern English-
I'm told a certain something grows
in its pouch, swells and stands up,
lifts its covering. A proud bride grasped
that boneless wonder, the daughter of a king
covered that swollen thing with clothing.
The answer of course is bread dough.
There' also #25-
Ic eom wunderlicu wiht, wifum on hyhte,
neahbuendum nyt; n¾ngum sceþþe
burgsittendra, nymþe bonan anum.
Staþol min is steapheah, stonde ic on bedde,
5
neoþan ruh nathw¾r. Neþeð hwilum
ful cyrtenu ceorles dotor,
modwlonc meowle, þ¾t heo on mec gripeð,
r¾seð mec on reodne, reafað min heafod,
fegeð mec on f¾sten. Feleþ sona
10
mines gemotes, seo þe mec nearwað,
wif wundenlocc. W¾t bið þ¾t eage.
modern English-
I'm a strange creature, for I satisfy women,
a service to the neighbors! No on suffers
at my hands except for my slayer.
I grow tall, erect in a bed,
I'm hairy underneath. From time to time
a good-looking girl, the doughty daughter
of some churl dares to hold me,
rips my russet skin, robs me of my head
and puts me in the pantry. At once that girl
with plaited hair who has confined me
remembers our meeting. Her eye moistens.
And that answer is an onion!
(Not bad considering my books are still down south and had to search online!)
'Lainie
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:21:22 +0200
From: UlfR <ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seekingbread recipe
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Laura C. Minnick <lcm at jeffnet.org> [2004.08.19] wrote:
> >Not to mention the Middle English riddle along these lines. Lainie, have
> >you got it (the riddle) somewhere? I can't remember how it goes.
>
> Actually it's Old English (Anglo-Saxon). I think the one you want is Exeter
While we are at food content in the Exeter riddles we must not forget
number 52:
Hyse cwom gangan, þ¾r he hie wisse
stondan in wincsele, stop feorran to,
hror h¾gstealdmon, hof his agen
hr¾gl hondum up, hrand under gyrdels
hyre stondendre stiþes nathw¾t,
worhte his willa; wagedan buta.
þegn onnette, w¾s þragum nyt
tillic esne, teorode hw¾þre
¾t stunda gehwam strong ¾r þon hio,
werig þ¾s weorces. Hyre weaxan ongon
under gyrdelse þ¾t oft gode men
ferðþum freogað ond mid feo bicgað.
The young man came over to the corner
Where he knew she stood. He stepped up,
Eager and agile, lifted his tunic
With hard hands, thrust through her girdle
Something stiff, worked on the standing
One his will. Both swayed and shook.
The young man hurried, was sometimes useful,
Served well, but always tired
Sooner than she, weary of the work.
Under her girdle began to grow
A hero's reward for laying on dough.
(a milk churn)
/UlfR
--
UlfR Ketilson ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 02:48:27 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period riddles
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
At 12:29 AM 9/13/2004, you wrote:
> Lainie gave two period riddles here back on Aug 19 and then said:
>> (Not bad considering my books are still down south and had to search
>> online!)
> Yes, it was. How did you find these online?
> I did find and buy a book on (I think. Right now, I can't find it)
> Anglo-Saxon riddles at this last Pennsic.
> I'd like to be able to do more bardic, and these might be good, although
> riddles may be a problem because the entire thing needs to be memorized
> word for word. Anyway, more sources or book recommendations would be
> excellent, either for the Florilegium or my own use. And probably being
> off subject for this list, unless food related, email would be fine.
Silly Stefan, now that everyone will want to know...
For searches for something like that I start with:
http://www.the-orb.net/ The ORB (On-line Resource Book)
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook.html The Internet Medieval Sourcebook
http://labyrinth.georgetown.edu/ The Labyrinth
(Those three being seriously good places to start looking for about
anything. If you can't find it there, you're looking for the wrong
thing! ;-)
It's been nearly a month now, so to best that I can reconstruct my steps, I
found the riddles through this path:
Starting at the ORB, then click on the Encyclopedia section, top left, which goes to
http://www.the-orb.net/encyclo.html,
scroll down to 'Literature' and choose Old English, to
http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/culture/lit/oldeng.html,
select 'Primary Sources' near the top of the page, to
http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/ballc/oe/oe-texts.html,
and scroll down to 'Riddles', where there are several choices. The first one takes you to
http://www.georgetown.edu/labyrinth/library/oe/alpha.html,
and if you scroll down you'll find the riddles, numbered in order. They are still in the Anglo-Saxon though- so to find the translation-
Dang. Link be broken.
Ok- after a Google search I found http://www.technozen.com/exeter/ which
has all of them translated, and after consulting the magic memory of
Beyondo! (which is 'Lainie-speak for 'Uh, looks ok to me!') I determine
that the translations are pretty decent.
I have to admit that it helped that I knew what I was looking for. There's
bazillions of riddles out there. But only some of them are in the
Exeter book!
'Lainie
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:53:21 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period riddles
To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>
Tonight I was able to spend more time looking and I found the book I had bought. So just in case anyone else might be interested:
Anglo-Saxon Riddles by John Porter
Anglo-Saxon Books, Norfolk, England
4th reprint, Expanded and Reprinted 2003
ISBN 1-898281-32-7
94 riddles in the original and modern English plus the solutions in
modern English with occasional explanations.
137 paages. Paperback. It's marked as 4.95 pounds. I bought it for
$8.95 at Pennsic.
Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas
<the end>