flutes-msg - 12/1/18

Period flutes and whistles. Woodwind instruments. Shawns. Kazoos.

NOTE: See also the files: instruments-msg, trumpets-msg, trumpet-build-art,  harps-msg, drums-msg, guitar-art, music-bib, bagpipes-msg, horn-msg, ivory-msg.

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                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking instruments and such...
Date: 20 Apr 1994 19:06:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

WILLIAM D. JONES <wjones at du.edu> wrote:
>    The first question:  Does anyone out there have any information about 
>         viking period ( say 850-1100 CE) woodwind instruments...  

They found a wooden panpipe in the Coppergate dig in York.  I
have a replica of it that I bought in the gift shop there.  I
can't get much sound out of it, but I'm not an expert.  It has
four holes and presumably makes at least four notes.  (I don't
know whether a panpipe is one of those instruments you can get
overtones out of.)

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu


From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking instruments and such...
Date: 21 Apr 94 15:48:03
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

>    The first question:  Does anyone out there have any information about 
>         viking period ( say 850-1100 CE) woodwind instruments...  

J.V.S. Megaw wrote a series of papers on bone "penny whistles" As I
recall they were made from the leg bones of deer, and he managed to
ascertain the range of notes which one could play. If you are
interested send me an email & I can dig up the refernces of the papers
for you.
Apparently similar bone whistles were played by mediterranean shepherds
until fairly recently.

+They found a wooden panpipe in the Coppergate dig in York.  I
+have a replica of it that I bought in the gift shop there.  I
+can't get much sound out of it, but I'm not an expert. 

The Coppergate pan pipes are almost identical to some Roman pan pipes
found in London. I too went to teh Jorvik centre and got a set. I can
get a slightly breathy set of notes out of them, my sister plays the
flute and did much better getting quite a musical noise out.

Jennifer/Rannveik
Vanaheim Vikings


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sommerfeld at apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: Viking instruments and such...
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 21:36:25 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Chelmsford Site

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>In article <2pm08f$c5m at hebron.connected.com>,
>Ralph Lindberg <dragonsl at hebron.connected.com> wrote:
>>
>>But just don't ask me what a shawn or a rebec is.
>
>A shawm is an oboe forerunner, and comes in sizes from soprano
>(maybe 2 feet long) to great bass (7 feet long, not counting the
>tube that curves back down to where the musician's mouth can
>reach it).  

small rooms with as many as half a dozen of them going full blast...

The closest modern relative is probably the truck air horn :-).  (at
least thats what it feels like when someone lets a soprano or alto
shawm loose right behind me without warning me first..).

Unlike the oboe (which today is mostly a chamber and orchestra
instrument), the shawm is primarily a "loud" outdoor instrument; while
the double-reed technology of the shawm evolved into the oboe, brass
instruments (and single-reed instruments like the clarinet and
saxophone) eventually took over its "ecological niche" of being a loud
instrument played outdoors..

One important difference between the shawms and modern double reeds is
that (many) shawms have a conical "pirouette" surrounding the reed;
the lips can rest against the pirouette for support.  Seen from a
distance, this resembles a brass mouthpiece.

				- Bill


From: mwolfe at epas.utoronto.ca (Menya Wolfe)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking instruments and such...
Date: 22 Apr 1994 04:57:27 GMT
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto

In article <CoKDqr.GGt at du.edu>, WILLIAM D. JONES <wjones at du.edu> wrote:
>    The first question:  Does anyone out there have any information about 
>         viking period ( say 850-1100 CE) woodwind instruments...

Wow.  My pet subject, instruments before 1000 (one of them, at least).
If you just want Viking age wind instruments, there are basically
three types.  Surviving flutes, mostly of the fipple (recorder) type
have been found made of bone or wood.  There is a real possibility of
side blown flutes too, but some fragments are hard to identify since
they are just drilled bone.

The real musical prize at Coppergate was a set of boxwood panpipes.
They are considered to be broken, and had at least five holes,
possibly as many as eight.  The pipes were found in playable
condition, and were played and recorded by Richard Hall before
conservation.  I have a copy of that tape, as well as a replica which
I plan to modify to fit the intervals on the tape, which seem to be
roughly whole tones.  The pipes are now on display at the Jorvik
Viking Centre, along with other instrument bits.

The person who has done the most work on Viking music is Graeme Lawson
at Cambridge.  He is responsible for the Music of the Viking Age tape
(as well as the others in the series), on which he records music
played on very accurate replicas of archaeological instruments.  He is
not the most approachable person in the world.  Make sure you are
asking intelligent questions if you are going to contact him.

Rhiannon


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Re: Viking instruments and such...
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:16:23 GMT

[ Dofinn-Hallr Morrisson asked me to post this for him because his NNTP
  server is on the fritz.  He can be reached at priestdo at cs.vassar.edu. ]

>    The first question:  Does anyone out there have any information about 
>         viking period ( say 850-1100 CE) woodwind instruments...  

	Dorothy> They found a wooden panpipe in the Coppergate dig in York.

There is a nice illustration of those pipes in "The Excavations at
York, THE VIKING DIG" by Richard Hall on page 116.  They had at least
five holes (the wood is broken at that point but sugests no more
holes) sounding "from top A to top E"(Hall pg 116).  This gives the
pattern tone semi-tone tone tone, the first five notes of a dorian
scale or a minor scale.  This is also the top 5 of 6 notes on the
anglo-saxon 6 string lyre (tunning from Hucbald's "De Harmonica
Institutione." 880ce in "New Oxford history of music: v. 2 The Early
Middle Ages to 1300 pgs 457-458").

David Swan (Henry MacQueen) built a set a few years ago.  I have built
several sets and they work out real nice if ya get the top of the holes
cut just right.  The original appears to have been drilled out to the
specific depths with a spoon bit. (Twist, twist, toot! Twist, twist,
tooot!  Go slow.) If you are using a power drill it is easyer to drill
the holes a bit deep and then fill and tune them with drops of beeswax
pushed down with the head of a nail.

Greg (Dov)


From: mwolfe at epas.utoronto.ca (Menya Wolfe)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking instruments and such...
Date: 26 Apr 1994 15:22:03 GMT
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto

Monica Cellio <mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu> wrote:
>[ Dofinn-Hallr Morrisson asked me to post this for him because his NNTP
>  server is on the fritz.  He can be reached at priestdo at cs.vassar.edu. ]

>There is a nice illustration of those pipes in "The Excavations at
>York, THE VIKING DIG" by Richard Hall on page 116.  They had at least
>five holes (the wood is broken at that point but sugests no more
>holes) sounding "from top A to top E"(Hall pg 116).  This gives the
>pattern tone semi-tone tone tone, the first five notes of a dorian
>scale or a minor scale.  This is also the top 5 of 6 notes on the
>anglo-saxon 6 string lyre (tunning from Hucbald's "De Harmonica
>Institutione." 880ce in "New Oxford history of music: v. 2 The Early
>Middle Ages to 1300 pgs 457-458").

I'm not sure this is true.  As I said, I have a tape of the actual
pipes, and I'm trying to get someone to analyze it for exact pitches.
You can tell by looking at the illustration in the Hall book that the
bores increase in length at a steady rate, which to me says that the
scale is *not* the one we are familiar with, but possibly one of even
intervals.  The instrument probably had more holes, since it is a very
narrow range, it appears to change in shape at the point where it is
broken, and it would be extremely unlikely to break through the middle
of the last hole where there could be no leverage.

I know Richard Hall a little, and he is not a musician.  The
instrument has not been properly written up yet, and I would take the
notes described in the book as an approximation only.

Rhiannon


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com (Jay Brandt)
Subject: Re: Music & Pan Pipes
Organization: the Polyhedron Group
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 22:41:44 GMT

UDSD073 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike Andrews) wrote:
> jk17669 at academia.swt.edu (Give me Theatre or give me Death!) writes:
> > rogerc at dante.exide.com (Roger Chen) writes:
> >> Also, while on the topic... how period are pan pipes anyway?  Am I going
> >> to get lynched by the Robyyan Authenticity Police if I show up at an
> >> event with them?
> >
> >   Well, they were usin 'em in Ancient Greece!
> >  I would assume that even during the Middle Ages, they were still being made
> >in the Mediterranean regions, and some artwork from the Italian Renaissance
> >features "pan pipes" (they have another name, but damn if I can't remember it),
> >so it would appear they were at least known about...
> 
> The Greeks called them something like "Syrinx", I think.

Yes, 'Srynx' (or something very close to that in spelling) is one name for
what we call 'Pan Pipes'. It is a very period instrument, and appears in
various forms and nations over the entire range of the SCA's period, as far
as I can tell. The two sets of Pan Pipes that I own are both tuned to the
'Pentatonic' scale, used as I recall in early Greece. -If- they ever were
made tuned to the chromatic scale (the one used in most modern
instruments), I -think- it would be a later period development. The one's
I've seen in use by 'traditional' performers were all tuned to the
pentatonic scale. The instrument appears as a charge in period heraldry,
though rarely. It can also be seen in many illustrations from the period
(illuminations, paintings, etc.).

Caveat: I'm working from memory here, with no reference materials at hand.
Do not take my word as gospel here, but rather as a starting point for
serious research. I recommend starting by looking up 'Srynx' in a good
encyclopedia, and looking it up as a charge in Fox-Davies or other heraldic
reference works.
-- 
Regards, Jay Brandt --- Austin, Texas, USA --- <rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com>
In the SCA, HLS Jason of Rosaria, JdL, GdS, AoA --------- (Member # 3016)
Owner / Designer / Craftsman ------------------------- Bear Paw Woodworks


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.music.early
From: sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu (Stephen Bloch)
Subject: Re: Music & Pan Pipes
Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City, NY
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 04:39:23 GMT

rogerc at dante.exide.com (Roger Chen) writes:
>> Also, while on the topic... how period are pan pipes anyway?  Am I going
>> to get lynched by the Robyyan Authenticity Police if I show up at an
>> event with them?

Give me Theatre or give me Death! <jk17669 at academia.swt.edu> replied:
>   Well, they were usin 'em in Ancient Greece!
>  I would assume that even during the Middle Ages, they were still being made
>in the Mediterranean regions, and some artwork from the Italian Renaissance 
>features "pan pipes" (they have another name, but damn if I can't remember it),
>so it would appear they were at least known about...

There are a number of pictures and sculptures from the Middle Ages in
which angels play pan-pipes.  However, depictions of real human beings
playing them seem much rarer, which lends credence to the following
quote from _Performing Medieval and Renaissance Music_, by Elizabeth V.
Phillips and John-Paul Christopher Jackson:
    The familiar panpipes of classical times seem to have existed
    in medieval Europe as a practical instrument from the eleventh
    through the thirteenth centuries.  Thereafter, depiction of
    panpipes in art is probably purely allegorical.  In Europe,
    panpipes were made from cane, stone, metal, clay, or wood in the
    form of a set of tuned tubes joined together in a raft.  The
    lower end of each tube was stopped, and sound was produced by
    blowing across the top, open end.
--
                                                 Stephen Bloch
                                           sbloch at boethius.adelphi.edu
                                        Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University


From: bubba at zark.ludd.luth.se (U.J|rgen \hman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.music.early
Subject: Re: Music & Pan Pipes
Date: 9 Nov 1994 20:43:03 +0100
Organization: Lulea University Computer Society - Ludd

>rogerc at dante.exide.com (Roger Chen) writes:
>>> Also, while on the topic... how period are pan pipes anyway?  Am I going
>>> to get lynched by the Robyyan Authenticity Police if I show up at an
>>> event with them?

Stuff deleted......

In the excavations of Jorvik (York) they've found pan pipes from the viking
age. It was truly a _VERY_ rare thing and not expected at all.
They were made from a single hardwood box, it had five holes drilled/bored
side-by-side into it. The tunes ranging from top A to top E.
The "tune-holes" weren't drilled/bored through the piece, but there was
one hole going straight through the piece and it was probably made as a
hole for a strap or something like that..
	 _   _   _   _   _   _		 
	| | | | | | | | | | | |	 	|| ||
	| | | | | | | | | | | |		|| ||
	| | | | | | | | | | | |		|| ||
	| |_| | | | | | | | | |		|| ||
	|     |_| | | | | | | |		||_||
	|         |_| | | | | |		|   |
	|      _      |_| | | |	 	|___|
	|     |_|         |_| |		 ___
	|		      |		|   |
	|_____________________|		|___|

	 _____________________
	|__O___O___O___O___O__|

So it's period, but perhaps not very common.....

/Ulf
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue)	*Canton of Frostheim
Vert, per pale a crescent inverted	*Barony of Nordmark
and a Thor's hammer argent.		*Kingdom of Drachenwald
bubba at ludd.luth.se -=-  U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Searching for a wooden flute
Date: 5 Jan 95 17:58:46 GMT
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, School of Computer Science

>I am looking for a merchant who sells wooden musical
>instruments. 

One dealer you might call is Courtly Music (1-800-2-Richie).  One of
our local members has bought several recorders from there and has been
very pleased.  (I think that's where he got his crumhorn kit, too.)
This shop focuses on woodwinds, so there's a good chance they do flutes.
I don't know for sure; I'm more a strings person than a woodwind person
myself.

Selecting an instrument in person is much better than doing it through
the mail, if you have the option.  Even if you have to drive a few hours,
I recommend it.  There are always going to be subtle differences between
apparently like instruments, and nothing can substitute for the opportunity
to try them all out and pick the one that feels right to you.  If you have
to order through the mail, make sure there's a reasonable return/exchange
policy.

>I would prefer a flute or something similar. Would a flute be in period? 

Transverse flutes came to Europe via Byzantium in the 12th century.
The modern wooden six-hole flutes (fingered like a pennywhistle) seem
to be fairly close, though exact materials may have differed.  I have
seen no evidence for keyed flutes in period.  For more information, you
may want to consult:

  Gaines, Anthony, ed. (for the Galpin Society); Musical Instruments
  Through the Ages, New York: Walker and Co., 1966 (orig. pub. by
  Penguin Books, London, 1961).

  Munrow, David, Instruments of the Middle Ages and Renaissance, 
  New York: Oxford University Press, 1976

  Praetorius, Michael, The Syntagma Musicum, Volume Two, De Organographia, 
  First and Second Parts, Plus All Forty-Two Original Woodcut Illustrations 
  from Theatrum Instrumentorum, tr. Harold Blumenfeld, New York: Da Capo 
  Press, 1980.

Ellisif
file://grand.central.org/afs/transarc.com/public/mjc/html/ellisif.html


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jarnott at sallie.wellesley.edu (Jennifer Arnott)
Subject: RE: Searching for a wooden flute
Organization: WELLESLEY COLLEGE
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:55:58 GMT

I've seen a few illustrations of transvers flutes (as opposed to recorders
.) Most of these are in my Music History book, and as such don't give 
extremely useful reference points. However, there is a woodcut of the Holy 
Roman Emperor Maximilian I (reigned 1486 - 1519) which contains flutes (
also a lot of other instruments) The wood cut is by Hans Burgkmair (1473 - 
1531) and lives in the Metropolitan Museum of Art (NYC)

As far as finding instruments, I have a cheap $20 bamboo flute which is 
adequate, but if anyone has a source for well tuned instruments, PLEASE, 
I'd love to know!

By the way, the musical instruments collection at the Metropolitan Museum 
is well worth the visit! (along with the Arms and Armour...)
(if only to criticise things....)

Jennifer Arnott     SCA Cecilia Peters  	jarnott at wellesley.edu 


From: svartorm at netaxs.com (Emil Stecher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Searching for a wooden flute
Date: 8 Jan 1995 07:44:59 GMT

Jennifer Arnott (jarnott at sallie.wellesley.edu) wrote:
: As far as finding instruments, I have a cheap $20 bamboo flute which is 
: adequate, but if anyone has a source for well tuned instruments, PLEASE, 
: I'd love to know!

: Jennifer Arnott
:       Jennifer Arnott     SCA Cecilia Peters  	jarnott at wellesley.edu 

       I would suggest that you look in the Boston phone book for the Von
Huene Workshop, which I believe is also listed as the early Music Shop of
New England.  It is on Beacon St, but unfortunately I cannot find the 
catalog for the exact address.  They sell all manner of Renaissance and 
Baroque instruments.  When I wrote to ask them if they had an inexpensive
Renaissance soprano, they sent me one ON APPROVAL, NO CASH UPFRONT a week
later, talk about gentilesse.  Oh yes, it was inexpensive because it was 
used, I understand that it was reconditioned before they sent it out,
but even so, they only charged me half price compared to a new one.
You can probably tell by the tone of this note that i am one happy
customer.
                                   Barak Raz
                                   c/o Emil M Stecher
                                       svartorm at netaxs.com


From: svartorm at netaxs.com (Emil Stecher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Searching for a wooden flute
Date: 8 Jan 1995 19:30:39 GMT

        Kelischek Workshop for historical Instruments
        Rt1, Box 26
        Brasstown, NC 28902
        tel (704) 837-5833

        Lark in the Morning
        PO Box 1176
        Mendocino, Ca 95460
        tel (707) 964-5569
        fax (707) 964-1979

        House of Musical Tradition
        Silver Springs, Md

          Lowest available price for a wooden flute seems to be
from Lark in the Morning, which offers "Renaissance Flute, made in 2 
sections, pitched in D...made of maple" for 195.00

          The Kelischek Catalog (which is from 1992, and therefore
not entirely trustworthy for a price quote or availability)lists
"Susato Renaissance Flute, Made of brown or ivory colored ABS,in-d'"
for 39.50 
        

From: UDSD073 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Searching for a wooden flute
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 14:39
Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)

svartorm at netaxs.com (Emil Stecher) writes:
>Jennifer Arnott (jarnott at sallie.wellesley.edu) wrote:
>: As far as finding instruments, I have a cheap $20 bamboo flute which is
>: adequate, but if anyone has a source for well tuned instruments, PLEASE,
>: I'd love to know!
>
>       I would suggest that you look in the Boston phone book for the Von
>Huene Workshop, which I believe is also listed as the early Music Shop of
>New England.  It is on Beacon St, but unfortunately I cannot find the
>catalog for the exact address.  ...
{deletia}

Also try the Boulder Early Music Shop; phone is (800) 499-1301,
IMSC.  I don't remember the address, except that it is in
Boulder, CO.  _VERY_ nice people to deal with. Tell 'em I sent
you.
--
udsd007 at ibm.okladot.state.ok.us    (192.149.244.136)
Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews)  Namron, Ansteorra


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From:  <lucinda_lundin at cl_63smtp.gw.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Searching for a wooden flute
Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 17:32:02 GMT

wpeloqui at medar.COM (Willie Peloquin) wrote:
> I am looking for a merchant who sells wooden musical
> instruments. I would prefer a flute or something
> similar. Would a flute be in period? I know I can
> purchase a wooden recorder locally, it must be
> special ordered.
> 
> Willie

 I have purchased three recorders from von Huene Workshop, Inc. 
and have been very happy with their service.  They also sell other
woodwinds, period and modern. If you have a credit
card, they will send you several instruments and will charge you
when you make your choice.  Two of my instruments came from their 
extensive consigment selection.  They also sell period music and have
a small catalog/brochure.

Their address is:
von Huene Workshop, Inc
65 Boylston St.
Brookline, MA 02146
617/277-8690
vonhuene at world.std.com

Lucinda


From: corliss at hal.physics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Wooden Flutes
Date: 6 Jan 1995 16:47:23 -0500

I must say that I have rarely seen one available, in many years of bewing 
interested in such things: I ultimately resolved the difficulty by making 
my own.

Boxwood is a very good choice. That not being available, pear and maple 
have also been used.

Turn a length of maple on a lathe to the appropriate size. The length 
should be ten to fifteen times the diameter: a longer, more slender flute 
will have a brighter tone, sounding more like a fife.

Use the lathe to bore the diameter. The wall of the flute should be about 
1/4 inch thich. If a lathe is not available for this purpose, it is 
possible to make a jig and use a drill press, but this tends to produce 
highly variable results: I have done this, going through several tries 
until getting a satisfactory result.

Close one end of the flute with a plug made of the same wood as the rest of 
the instrument. 

Drill a whole for the voicing (where one blows in the air). The remainder 
of the work in this area is performed with a file. File transversely with 
a bastard file until a proper edge is formed. Perform the final 
adjustment of the shape with a smooth file, testing the voicing to see it 
is just right. Blow a little, and file a little, and so on until you are 
pleased with the performance.

Drill the thumb hole. Do not carelessly forget to put it on the back side 
(relative to the voicing), ruining your work. 3/16 inches is good for 
most cases.

Drill and tune the other holes, one at a time. Measure where you think 
the hole needs to be to obtain the desired note, beginning with the 
highest. Dril a small (1/16) hole a little farther away from the voicing 
than where the measured amout. In effect, deliberately drill the note a 
little too low. Test the pitch. Since it is a little too low, take a rat 
tail needle file and file at the edge of the hole closest to the voicing, 
raising the pitch. It is the location of the _upper_ side of the hole 
that determines the pitch. Continue until the note ri

is right. Then drill 
out a proper sized hole (usually about 3/16 inches is good), leaving the 
upper edge of the hole unaffected. 

Continue in this manner for all the other holes. The lowest note. with 
all the holes closed, will be tuned by filing the end of the flute.

Beorthwine of Grafham Wood


From: UDSD007 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike.Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: Origins of the kazoo
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 16:56
Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)

bj at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Barbara Jean Kuehl) writes:
>Anyone know anything about the origins of the kazoo?  Was it
>around during medieval times?

Ah, yes! The marvelous instrument the French called the
"mirliton". They certainly were around pre-1600, although
I haven't found anything that indicates pre-1500 or pre-1400.
Yet.

Still digging ...
--
udsd007 at dsibm.okladot.state.ok.us
Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews)  Namron, Ansteorra


From: Gartner Michael <ges95kll at studserv.uni-leipzig.de>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: Origins of the kazoo
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 16:44:29 +0100
Organization: Uni Leipzig

On 8 Mar 1996, Barbara Jean Kuehl wrote:
> Anyone know anything about the origins of the kazoo?  Was it 
> around during medieval times?
> 
> 				BJ

According to my source (New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians, ed. 
S. Sadie, London 1980) the kazoo is "probably of Afro-American origin and 
first manufactured in the USA around 1850, it has been produced since the 
1890s in many coutries..."

I took the additional step of looking through the Sachs organology 
section, but found little that matched up to the kazoos configurations.  

An period instrument that may be similar to the sound that you are 
interested in, is the Jews Harp (also known as the Jaws trump; Fr. 
guimbarde; Ger. Maultrommel;in north Eng. gewgaw, etc.)  It is usually 
constructed of a metal ring with a metal tongue extending to the side 
(imagine the shape of a bottle as the outline with an extra piece of 
metal extending up through, but not exceeding the neck of the bottle).  
It is placed near the mouth; the mouth acts as the resonating chamber.  
The tongue is then plucked and results in an interesting set of overtones 
whioch the player can manipulate.  Again, the New Grove comments that 
"several bronze specimens in the Museum of Antiquities at Rouen suggest 
that the instrument has been known to western Europe at least since 
Gallo-Roman times."  I have also seen it portrayed in medieval 
manuscripts along with the usual assortmant of noise makers- ratchets, 
rattles, tabors, nakers and horns.

Duncan Brock, O.L.
Michael H. Gartner
Universitaet Leipzig, Deutschland


Subject: BG - Music last night
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 12:17:33 MST
From: Steve Hendricks <steve at aimetering.com>
To: "Bryn Gwlad mailing List (E-mail)" <bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG>

I thought some of you might be interested in learning what those loud
instruments were last night at fighter practice.

They were shawms, the Renaissance version of the oboe.  In fact, in
Shakespeare, when Royalty entered or exited, often the words "Hautboys
sound" were specified.  That indicated shawms were to play to usher the
nobility in or out of noble gatherings.  "Hautbois" means "high wood,"
since the sound is created by two vibrating blades of bamboo.  "Oboe" is
an English phonetic spelling (somewhat corrupted) of the French
"Hautbois."

In Renaissance and Medieval music, there were typically 2 sets of
instruments, the loud instruments and the soft instruments.  The loud
instruments were mostly used outdoors and in large halls.  They
consisted of shawms, trombones and drums.  The soft instruments were
used in small, intimate affairs such as dinners and smaller courts.
They consisted of recorders, viols, lutes, and pretty much everything
else.

Shawms are some of the most difficult instruments of the period to play
well.  While most other instruments were played by amateur musicians,
shawms were only played by professional musicians.

City Waits ("Wait" is a period term for a professional musician), the
official musical groups of such cities as London and York, would play
upon the city walls as part of the evening watch to let townspeople know
that all was well.  They would also play for official functions such as
the arrival of the Queen or King in the city for festivities.  Shawms
were used almost exclusively for these outdoor events.  Another function
of the Waits was to wake townspeople up in the morning.  If you needed
an alarm clock, you could pay the Waits to come to your house early and
play music for you to help start your day.

Samuel Piper


Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:44:14 -0500
From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Wind instrument making

The original question was:
><< Does anybody know how were fipple flutes and whistles made (i.e. shaped,
> bored -- I can't imagine doing it without some kind of lathe and drill)
> during Middle Ages? >>

The easily-hollowed branches of the elder tree have been providing simple
whistles for children and musicians alike in every land in which the tree
grows since antiquity.  Elder has a soft pith in the center of its
branches, so it's very easy to ream out the central soft core, leaving the
harder wood outer layers intact.

However, certainly some musical instruments were bored out - for instance
the boxwood pan-pipes found at the Jorvik excavations.  There is a nice
illustration of these pipes in "The Excavations at York, The Viking Dig" by
Richard Hall on page 116. There are also two excellent photos of the flute
available on The World of the Vikings CDROM.  This panpipe had at least
five holes (the wood is broken at that point but sugests no more holes)
sounding "from top A to top E"(Hall pg 116). This gives the pattern tone
semi-tone tone tone, the first five notes of a dorian scale or a minor
scale. The original appears to have been drilled out to the specific depths
with a spoon bit -- a process that would require drilling to an approximate
depth, then testing the tone, drilling further, etc.=20

Another bored wood instrument is suggested by the intriguing finds of
wooden trumpet mouthpieces found in Rus-Viking contexts (theres an
excellent illustration of several of these on the World of the Vikings
CDROM).  I don't know if any conclusive work has been done examining what
the remainder of the instrument looked like - whther it was a cow horn or
an actual brass instrument made of metal, or even perhaps the body may have
also been made of wood.  I would certainly be interested in finding out
more about this particular archaeological find.=20

Nancy (Ingvild) suggested:
>Lots of them were made from the large hollow bones of large birds such as
>goose and swan.  A fipple of wood would have been fitted in at one end and
>holes cut along the shank of the bone.

They also used the long bones of larger animals, especially sheep bones.
This is true for Anglo-Saxon England and for Scandinavia, at least.  Bone
whistles and recorders have been recovered, most commonly crafted from the
legbone of a cow, deer, or from large birds (the Romans had a similar
tradition at one point, for the Latin term for a flute is "tibia").  Bone
wind instruments produce a remarkably plangent sound.  The ones which have
been recovered are all end-blown, with the sound being produced by an inset
bone or more often wood fipple.  The normal number of finger holes is
three, although examples with up to seven holes has been found.  (For a
photo of such instruments, see
http://www.ftech.net/~regia/images/music01.jpg, or see The World of the
Vikings CDROM) Modern musical instriments that play the same way (though
the tonality is a bit different) include the tabor pipe or the flageolette.

For more detail on bone or horn instruments, see Arthur MacGregor, "Bone,
Antler, Ivory & Horn: the Technology of Skeletal Materials Since the Roman
Period"  Totowa: Barnes & Noble.  1985.

Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde


Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:13:11 -0700
From: Sandi Augsburger <sandilee at cyberhighway.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Ottoman-era wind instruments

"J. Kriss White" wrote:
> A group of mid-eastern performers I practice with is starting a long-term
> project to work up a performance set in (presumably late-)Ottoman-period
> costume, music, and dance.  Since we have percussionists in abundance, and
> one or two people working on period stringed instruments, and I've played
> the bagpipe and recorder in the past, I've been thinking it might be nice
> for me to find and learn a wind instrument - learn it enough to get a
> couple of tunes out of it in satisfactory form in the next year and a half
> at any rate.
>
> Any suggestions for a suitable instrument AND a source for same?
>
> Lord Daveed of Granada, mka J. Kriss White,

Yes!  Get yourself a shawm. It has been important in that part of the world for
thousands of years, and still is today. If you can't afford a shawm, you could
use the chanter of your bagpipes to get a similar sound. Or, you could use
an oboe.

The following sites should give you some information on this instrument:

http://www.eyeneer.com/World/index.html
http://www.gmm.co.uk/ai/shawms.htm
http://www.gmm.co.uk/ai/bshawm.htm
http://www.windworld.com/gallery/loraine/tapes.htm
http://www.warner-classics.com/erato/fa/biogs/cohen2.htm
http://www.mhs.mendocino.k12.ca.us/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/ArtMizmarandZurna

http://www.larkinam.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/ArtOrientalOboes
http://www.hike.te.chiba-u.ac.jp/cons1/shawm.html
http://www.eyeneer.com/World/index.html
http://www.by-the-sword.com/music.html

These should get you started. How exciting!!

Sandi in Idaho


Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:47:57 EST
From: <LrdRas at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Ottoman-era wind instruments

Anna.Troy at bibks.uu.se writes:
<< Aren't shawms kind of hard to play?

 Anna de Byxe >>

Yes. They take a lot of breath control and the end result,  if you manage to
perfect it, sounds like a person blowing thier nose harmonically. ....:-)
Actually , a rachet sounds more like my description than a shawm. An oboe
with the flu is closer. :-)

My recorder consort (The Merry Masons) purchased a shawm and I was left with
the unfortunate task of learning to play it for a Christmas concert we did for
Bucknell University. Given the lead time that I had, I didn't do bad but I
relegated the instrument to another member ASAP after that and went back to my
tenor recorder and absolutely refused to play it for Romeo and Juliet at
Lycoming College. :-)

Ras


Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:08:12 -0400
From: Garth Groff via Atlantia <atlantia@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
To: Merry Rose <atlantia@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] BBC: A Bone Flute and a Saxon Medical Book

Today the BBC featured two brief stories of interest to us.

During the excavations at Lincoln Castle for the new Magna Carta vault, a Norman-era bone flute was discovered, sadly in pieces. It was made from the wing bone of a goose. Now a local re-enactment musician has made a duplicates of the flute, one to display in the museum next to the smashed original, and one to actually play: 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-32090030 . 
It looks like this might be a fairly easy project, though getting the holes in the right spots so it would be in tune seems daunting.

<snip. See the p-medicine-msg file -Stefan>

What cool stuff our ancestors made!

Lord Mungo Napier, That Crazy Scot

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	flutes-msg	Page 2 of 15