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song-sources-msg - 1/15/12


Sources for medieval songs. Book reviews.


NOTE: See also the files: songs-msg, singing-msg, SI-songbook1-art, music-bib, music-msg, p-songs-msg, poetry-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.


Please respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 19:59:18 EDT

From: John A. Jordan Ii. <JJ9262A at auvm.american.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Song Sources


Since there are two requests for this info I'll post my response.  There

are several BBSes that carry song books.  I'll recommend them in the order

that I think you should try them.  Be advised that these boards may be

long-distance phone calls.  However, it's possible to get several hundred

SCA-related songs for about ten dollars in phone bills.  I think it's worth


Herald's Point (214) 699-0057   Still the best.  All the other boards

   you will access will have one or two songs that this one doesn't.  It

   will take about three hours at 2400 Baud to download all the songfiles.

   This board courtesy of Tadhg and Stephen.  Thanks guys.

SCRIBE (214) 826-8141  A newer board.  A good collection of Welsh songs

   in the original Welsh.  Probably the second best board for songs that

   I've seen.

London (407) 895-1335  This board's been around forever.  Good selection.

   Operated by SCAdians.  Sorry Matt, I don't know your persona tag.

TIDMADT (703) 370-7053 or Cathouse (703) 659-2845 (?)  Good boards.

   Good selections.  Time limits.  You'll have to drop the sysop a check

   to pay for extended time sufficient to download all their song files.


None of the above boards require voice validation.  They are very friendly,

well run, and frequented by intelligent users.  For other sources, check

your phonebook and look for Traditional Music Shops or shops that cater to

the irish music and folk music crowd.  These shops generally have songbooks

and sheetmusic as well as all the tapes and CD's you can afford.

The Digital Tradition is a database which contains over 3,500 songs.  It's

available via FTP (if you know how to do that.  I don't.) or snail mail.

I will post the address tomorrow.  Sorry, don't have it on me.

Finally, there are the mail-order sources.  I don't know of any.  Can

any Rialtans help out?  It took me several months to compile this list,

I hope it helps you.


                                  Jester of Anglesea



From: Eli Brian Goldberg <eg1n+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Song/Music sources

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 09:28:00 -0400

Organization: Sophomore, Social & Decision Sciences, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


I suggest that people interested in SCA-appropriate music contact

Random Factors, who carry a large variety of filk/folk and at least a half

dozen SCA-appropriate tapes, and in particular, all of Leslie Fish's

[the person who wrote almost all of the commonly used Kipling tunes in the SCA]

tapes. They're also going to be Leslie's publishers as of this July,

and last time I checked, they're planning at least 1-2 specifically

SCA tapes for next year, as well as a Monster book of all of Leslie's

music. [And, *no*, I don't know the details!  Ask them! ;-]


They can be reached at ---


Mary.Creasey at f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org


Random Factors

3754 W. 170th St

Torrance CA 90504-1204



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Song/Music sources

From: John A. Jordan Ii. <JJ9262A at auvm.american.edu>

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 17:31:40 EDT

Organization: The American University - University Computing Center


The Digital Tradition is a database of 3550 folk songs.  1500 of these

songs have the accompanying music (so I'm told).  The database can be

downloaded via FTP at the site:  ftp.uwp.edu

in the directory: /pub/music/folk/digital.tradition

There are also other music files in the  /pub/music directory, including

a list of other ftp sites.  FTP remains a mystery to me.  If someone can

give me clear directions on how to use FTP and how to use the files once I

get them (so that I can put them on an IBM) then I'll see about distributing

copies to interested parties.

The database is also available via snail mail.  Mail 3 HD disks to:

         The Digital Tradition

         28 Powell Street

         Greenwich, CT 06831

Dick Greenhaus will kindly mail you the database and the neccessary

utilities. Make sure to include a self-addressed, stamped mailer so that

your disks get back to you.  If you have any questions about the database

Dick can be reached at: dick%admiral.uucp at yale.edu   and his voice phone is

(203) 531-7314.  Please don't deluge him with calls and remember the time

difference when calling.  He's being very nice about providing this service

for *free* and it would be a shame to blow a good thing for everyone.


                         Jester of Anglesea

   "I know at least thirty songs, some of which I wrote.  So how come

   I can never think of a good one to sing?"



From: kristina at uclink.BErkeley.EDU (Kristina Eloisa Pereyra)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Sheet music for SCA Dances

Date: 23 Apr 1993 22:46:18 -0400

Organization: The Internet


There are at least two people in the SCA currently compiling dance music,

myself and Miklos Sandorfia, with the help of many.  Miklos is the music

coordinator for Pennsic this year, and hopes to have as large a collection

by then as possible.  I came up with the same idea independently about

three years ago and have been busily collecting, arranging, and typing it

into the computer ever since.  


If you can't wait until Pennsic, write to me (privately) and we can snail

mail what I've collected so far.  This will make you a guinea pig for some

new arrangements, but will keep you from playing "Hole in the Wall" ad



SCA Dance Music - Incomplete Set as of April 1993

kristina at uclink.berkeley.edu


I will gladly mail stuff out but can't speak for Miklos.  He seems plenty

busy already.


Yours in service, Phaedria d'Aurillac



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: nsmca at aurora.alaska.edu

Subject: Net info Music/Recipes (FTP/TELNET/Mail)

Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 21:47:11 GMT


Greeting all good people, for those who have FTP/TELNET access here is some

information on songs and instruments and where to get more.



directory /pub/guitar

Guitar Chords/TAB


telnet rusinfo.rus.uni-stuttgart.de

login: info

offers: recipes/online cookbook.


ftp ftp.uwp.edu

dir: /pub/music/...

dir: /pub/lyrics

offers: lyrics, chords/Tablature, and music pictures.


ftp gatekeeper.dec.com or ftp mthvax.cs.miami.edu

dir: /pub/recipes

annonymous FTP site offering MANY food recipes.


mail mwilkenf at silver.ucs.indiana.edu


(don't need FTP/TELNET for this one)

offers list of rare live recordings/CDs for sale.


mail listserv at vm.marist.edu   (internet)

mail listserv at marist           (bitnet)

             body of letter: subscribe upnews <your fullname>

offers: reviews/interviews (Warning the info might be long so beware of irrate

sysops and such).


mail used-music-server at cd.ucsb.edu

w/subject: help

offers: buy/sell/trade CDs/LPs/Tapes or subscribe to the list (Warnign list

might be long so bewared of pissed off sysops).


Info presented here is found in Yanoff Internet Resources List.

If anythig is in error or does not work, send request to:

Yanoff at csd4.csd.uwm.edu

and ask for a list of your own, my typing is getting worse of late..

Yanoff is Scott Yanoff..

Later and have a good summer.


May the wind be at your back, and a safe journey to your final destination.


Michael Adams, nsmca at acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked




From: Joe.Bethancourt at f148.n114.z1.tvbbs.UUCP (Joe Bethancourt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Songs for FTP

Date: Mon, 03 May 1993 15:54:14 -0700


From the FILK sig: This is where you can get my SCA song files:


Organization: Amethyst Systems, Fremont, CA

Reply-To: eoin at xocolatl.com


Many filk files are available from the mail based file-server at

the system xocolatl.com.


Send email to the address:


mail-server at xocolatl.com


With message body (subject is ignored):




This will automatically return to you the help & instruction file

and the index (listing) of available files on xocolatl.com.


Notes of interest:


The index was updated as of 4/26/93, if you have an older copy you may

want to request a new one.


I think this will work for a fidonet address.  If you try it,

please email me directly on your success or how it failed.


I have all the filk related files from the Aerie, including the FFILEs

(1 through 21) and FFILE indexes, EXCEPT the archives of ALL the messages.  


Many of Kathy Mar's lyric files are available.

Soon to be added are some of Joe Bethancourt's filk, celtic & SCA files.



There is 350K per person per day limit.

Your first file request of your first message is allowed

to break that limit.


-- eoin at xocolatl.com  |      Practice Random Kindness   /~~~~~~~~~~~~~\  /

-- GEnie: J.Snyder18  |  *             and             <  D A R W I N  ><

-- CI$:   70313,3111  | \|/  Senseless Acts of Beauty   \_____________/  \

-- Wk: Johns at NGC.Com  |           PGP 2.2 User            _l _l _l _l



From: Stephen.Whitis at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: request for songs

Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 23:31:14


>any period or periodish songs you may have in your repetoire will be

>greatly appreciated. if (time and) space allows, i will give credit to the

>good gentle forwards the song to the above address.


No email address posted which I could see, so Email isn't possible.

If you have a computer with a modem, calling 214-699-0057 will

connect you with Herald's Point BBS, where several bardic

collections are available for DL.  (Even first time callers can

DL.) If you need permissions, then be sure to DL BARDBOOK.ZIP, a

collection I have gathered.  Permission for any of my work is

granted, and I can probably hunt up permissions for quite a few of

the others, if needed.


And before anyone asks, no I don't know of any way to handle

Internet file transfers to or from our system.  But if *you* do,

then email me.  :^)


Stephen of the Grove

Steppes, Ansteorra    FIDONET 1:124/4229

ocitor!Stephen.Whitis at rwsys.lonestar.org



From: Tony.Jordan at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tony Jordan)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: WANTED: Tavern and filk songs.

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1993 17:33:38


       The FTP sites don't have the songs *yet*.  But there are several BBSes that do.  Herald's Point in TX (214) 699-0057, London in FL (407) 895-1335, and TIDMADT in VA (703) 370-7054.  There is also an FTP site that contains The Digital Tradition database.  This is a compilation of roughly 4000 folk songs (lyrics only, tunes for about 1500 of 'em).  I've forgotten the address of this database but you can get it by posting a message on rec.music.folk on the internet or sending e-mail to dick at admiral.uucp (Dick Greenhaus).  You can also get this database by sending 3 HD disks (1.4 or 1.2 MB) and a stamped self-addressed mailer to the following address:

       The Digital Tradition

       28 Powell Street

       Greenwich, CT 06831


       Also, the FTP site that contains The Digital Tradition contains several other music archives that I have not had the time to explore.


       Good Luck.

               Jester of Anglesea



From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Christmas Carols

Date: 22 Nov 1994 11:08:57 -0500

Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science


For folk seeking a more period existance; I just ran accross a book

        _A Christmas Book_  "50 Carols and Poems from the 14th to the

17th Centuries" edited by Eleanor Sayre.


Note: many are in the original languages--including French, German, etc.


Would anyone like me to post a couple?

wilelm the smith



From: andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Draskoy)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Christmas Carols

Date: 23 Nov 1994 20:19:05 GMT

Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland


Having researched period carols somewhat, I've found the most authoritative

and complete secondary source available is the "New Oxford Book of Carols."

Here's a reference:


          TITLE: The New Oxford book of carols / edited by Hugh Keyte and

                 Andrew Parrott ; associate editor, Clifford Bartlett

      PUBLISHED: Oxford ; Toronto : Oxford University Press, c1992

   DESCRIPTION: 1 close score (702 p.) ; 26 cm

           ISBN: 0193533235

          NOTES: Each carol followed by an English translation printed as

                 text, historical notes, and performance notes

          NOTES: Includes bibliographical references (p. 684-693) and indexes

     SUBJECT(S): Carols.

                 Christmas music.

   OTHER ENTRIES: Keyte, Hugh

Miklos Sandorfia

andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca



From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Christmas Carols

Date: 24 Nov 1994 03:44:38 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley


A really wonderful source for those who want to go beyond the Christmas

theme in carols is:


Greene, Richard Leighton. "The Early English Carols" Oxford: The

Clarendon Press, 1977.


It claims to contain the lyrics to every known pre-17th century English

carol. The category headings are provacative: in addition to the usual

"Carols of the Advent", "Carols of the Nativity", "Carols to the Virgin"

etc., you find "Satirical Carols", "Carols of Women", "Carols of

Mariage", "Convivial Carols", "Political Carols", "Amorous Carols", etc.

The book's major disappointment is that it contains no music whatsoever.


Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: kjh at statsci.com (Kjrsten Henriksen)

Subject: Re: Christmas Carols

Organization: Statistical Sciences, Inc., Seattle, WA USA

Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 22:12:58 GMT


malice here:


Allow me to second the reccomendation of the

        New Oxford Book of Carols

It has a lot of very good stuff in it; the notes and appendices are

extensive, usefull, and well written.


Be aware, however, of the editors intentions---they are not SCA, they

aren't trying to win competitions.  They are trying to give church

choirs and similar groups a broad variety of interesting, historical,

fun carols.  So if they have several very close versions of a piece,

the version they give is likely to be a composite, and if they have

only a melody line of something that is clearly not plainsong, they

are likely to give a 4-part arrangement of it.  If you carefully read

their notes you can generally tell what they've done.


If your library hasn't gotten a copy yet, you can still look at the

Oxford Book of Carols, now appearing in great numbers on remainderd

shelves. The NOBC is bigger, and has the advantage of several more

decades of musical scolarship, but the OBC was for its time what the

NOBC is now and if you want to know `is my favorite carol period' the

OBC will probably tell you.






From: habura at rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Christmas Album

Date: 6 Dec 1994 21:15:42 GMT

Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY


Hi, folks! Finally took a look at the Nifty Christmas Tape I bought last

January, and I thought you might like to hear about it.


It's by a group called Revels, Inc., which is based in Boston. The title

is _Sing we Now of Christmas_, and it has a very well-done selection of

songs, which aren't listed anywhere on the outside of the tape box. So,

if you're interested, here's the list:


A) Songs explicitly dated to Period


4) Nowel Syng We Bothe Al and Some (15th c. English)

6) Alleluya Psallat (13th c. English)

7) Orientis Partibus (strongly implied to be medieval French)

10) Make We Mery Bothe More and Lesse (13th c. English)

13) Amen (15th c. French)

14) Ave Rosa in Jericho (16th c. Czech)

16) Poslan Jest Od Boha Andel (16th c. Poland)

2b.) L'Homme Arme' (15th c. French)

3b.) Belle Qui Tiens ma Vie (1589, French) (yes, it's _that_ Belle Qui)

11b.) Pour Nous Remettre En Son Paradis (16th c. Provencal)

12b.) J'ai Vu le Loup, le Renard, le Lievre (14th c. French)

13b.) Ding-dong Merrily on High (Tune only, 16th c. French)

14b.) Vive le Roi (15th c. French)

16b.) Sing We Noel (16th c. French)


B) Songs explicitly dated to 17th and 18th c.


3) Alleluia (18th c. English)

11) Strike Up your Instruments of Joy (18th c. English)

15) Kol Slaven (18th c. Russian)

5b.) Il Est Ne' le Divin Enfant (17th c. French)

8b.) Les Anges Dans Nos Campagnes (17th c. French)

10b.) Guillaume, Prends Ton Tambourin (17th c. French)


C) Songs dated later than 18th c.


1) The Somerset Wassail (prob. 19th c. English)

8) Alleluia (19th c. French)

7b.) Hosanna (19th c. French)


D) Undated songs


2) Sans Day Holly Carol

5) St. Patrick's Breastplate

9) The Friendly Beasts (although the tune is that of Orientis Partibus)

12) Aro Que Nostre Seign'Es Nat

1b.) Mazoz Tzur

4b.) J'ay Ouy La Voix

6b.) Voici le Noel

9b.) Jesus Christ s'Habille en Pauvre


My personal favorites are the Sans Day Carol (although I have another version

I like better), Orientis Partibus, Strike Up your Instruments of Joy, and

Sing We Noel (which is _really_ dynamite.)


If you can't find the tape anywhere, the address of the company is:


Revels, Inc.

1 Kendall Square

Building 600

Cambridge, MA 02139




Alison MacDermot



From: asamplas at indiana.edu (Vlad the Purple)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: singing period songs

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:40:15

Organization: Indiana University


Esmeralda responding to Erik of Grenloch:


>Also, there are many, many, (Thousands) of songs in English from our

>chosen period.  Some are madrigals, others earlier.


Ah, er, um... I wouldn't go quite that far, or perhaps I'm not clear on what

you're calling period. Dobson + Harrison in their book _MEDIEVAL ENGLISH

SONGS_ list only about two dozen songs from before 1400 that survive with

music. The numbers increase for 15th c. and early-mid 16th c. songs, but

the vast majority of those, unless I'm very mistaken, are things like the

body of polyphonic carols, which have to be classified as art-music rather

than popular entertainment. The huge proliferation of English madrigals and

solo lute-songs only occurs after 1588, and trails off to about 1630. One

can argue whether most of those should be classified as Baroque rather than

Renaissance music, but I do not believe there are more than about a thousand

such in toto. Still a goodly-sized repertoire that should get more air-time

in the SCA than what usually gets sung around fires, but not "thousands".


(Perhaps it is just that coming from Cornell, aka the Land of Sagan, I saw

that line and automatically interpreted it as "billions and billions"... :)


Could you clarify what you consider the cutoff date?




Artie Samplaski               Vlad the Purple

Indiana U. School of Music    Myrkfaelinn Midrealm Accounts Rep.

asamplas at indiana.edu



From: asamplas at indiana.edu (Vlad the Purple)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: singing period songs

Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:40:32

Organization: Indiana University


Esmeralda responding to my response to...:


>It looks like there's a couple of differences that I see here. I don't

>have a narrow definition of the word 'song'.  For me a song is lyrics and

>music. So I call 'Weep, O mine eyes' a song even though both renderings

>that I've seen are for four voices.


Okay, that's a big source of difference. The borderline between "madrigal"

as polyphonic piece with textual repetition and parts coming in at different

points vs. "multi-part homophonic song" gets fuzzy. I was thinking more

along the lines of solo-song, altho as Dani pointed out, I'd still consider

the 15th c. polyphonic English carols more as "songs" because the text moves

in all parts at more or less the same time, even tho the melody lines are

pretty elaborate.


As for the pre-15th c. stuff, some of it is monophonic, some not. (There

are both solo & multi-voice versions of Angelus Ad Virginem, aka Gabriel

fram Heven King, e.g.) If Dani or someone in BMDL has a copy of Dobson +

Harrison, take a gander at it.


>I generally think of 'period' as stopping at 1600 even though that date

>doesn't have good application to different art forms.  When art forms

>move from the renaissance to the baroque (or any other 'period' change)

>is a topic of much debate.  Since our charter state 'pre-17th century' I

>tend to follow that guideline since I see no other as more useful to



Good for you! Music does undergo a sea-change around 1600 rather than later,

altho there is still conservative, Ren.-style stuff being composed for a few

decades by some, so the 1600 cutoff date is better for music. (Yes, I know

this opens up a different barrel of worms - let's do that one in a different

thread, ok, guys?)


"Master Vlad"?? Ah, er, um - you know something I don't? Last I looked, the

only leaves I had were things that had fallen on me as I walked home from





Artie Samplaski               Vlad the Purple

Indiana U. School of Music    Myrkfaelinn Midrealm Accounts Rep.

asamplas at indiana.edu



From: dmontuor at telenet.com (Dave Montuori)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: singing period songs

Date: 8 Dec 94 04:58:38 GMT

Organization: Alcatel Data Networks


Esmeralda, mka Andrea B Gansley-ortiz <abgst5+ at pitt.edu> wrote:

>I generally think of 'period' as stopping at 1600 even though that date

>doesn't have good application to different art forms.  When art forms

>move from the renaissance to the baroque (or any other 'period' change)

>is a topic of much debate.


The start date usually given for Baroque music is 1600, the reason being

the Florentine Camerata and (by their commission?) Peri & Caccini's opera

"Euridice." It didn't take long for the new trend to sweep the art-music

world. Madrigals and other more "pop" forms of music, though no less

respectable, changed more slowly. To determine appropriateness of a song

written in the early 17th c., I'd have to listen to it and determine if

it's in a more Elizabethan or a more Baroque style; I'll not complain

about the former.


Evan da Collaureo, amateur musician. Go Sable Sackbuts.

Support the Great Atlantian Breeding Program (tm) - Drink Stierbach Water

dmontuor%telenet.UUCP at uunet.uu.net



From: ranauro at fas.harvard.edu (Michael Ranauro)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Elizabethan songbook

Date: 17 Mar 1995 13:03:01 GMT

Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts


Dear All:  For anyone who is in search of user-friendly collections of

period (in this case 1597-1622) music, I have edited and had published a

selection of Elizabethan lute-songs.  The songs have all been transcribed

directly from the original printed songbooks, and are presented in modern

musical notation, with melody, complete lyrics, and accompaniment (the

accompaniment is presented in both standard notation and guitar

tablature, for all you guitarists out there).  The book ("The First Part

of Songs or Ayres", Lordly Nightshade, 1992) is available for $10

(incl. shipping) from me at:


        Michael Ranauro

        4 Beckwith Circle (#2)

        Somerville, MA  02143


Please feel free to email me if you have any questions concerning this book.


May the long time sun shine upon you,


ranauro at fas.harvard.edu



From: sherman at trln.lib.unc.edu (dennis r. sherman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Songs in Spanish

Date: 10 Nov 1995 14:43:18 GMT

Organization: Triangle Research Libraries Network


Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

(who has been very buried in work, but pops up briefly on seeing a

subject header that I'm currently very interested)


In article <47t096$iij at panix2.panix.com>, dpeters at panix.com (D. Peters) writes:

>Oh, boy--there's *lots* of period Spanish music, and it's great stuff!  

>[...lots of good suggestions deleted...]

>N.B. LOTS of recording of these things right now (because of Columbus

>quincentenary in '92.  Go to your nearest Tower Records; they should have

>plenty for you to choose from....


A few specific recordings worth looking for (all CDs, some older, some

very recent, some vocal, some instrumental, most mixed):


Ensemble Alctraz, Visions and Miracles.  

   Elektra/Nonesuch 9 79180-2

Circa 1500, Music from the Spanish Kingdoms.

   Musical Heritage Society 513259H

The Waverly Consort, 1492: Music from the Age of Discovery

   EMI Classics D115591

La Nef, Music for Joan the Mad

   Dorian Discovery DIS-80128

Sequentia, Vox Iberica I: Donnersohne/Sons of Thunder

   Harmonia Mundi 05472-77199-2


And for something almost the same but a little different, music of the

Sephardim (Spanish Jews) usually in Ladino (Ladino is to Spanish as

Yiddish is to German, more or less):

La Rondinella, Songs of the Sephardim

   Dorian Discovery DIS-80105

La Rondinella, A Song of David

   Dorian Discovery DIS-80130


I bought most of these through BMG Music Service, a CD club that I think

is on the WWW somewhere, although I deal with them using the Postal

Service. They should generally be available through any record store.


And in addition to the excellent suggestions for sources for sheet music,

here are a few composers names to look for: Juan del Encina, Antonio de

Cabezo'n, Diego Ortiz, Francisco de la Torre.


Good luck.  I'm greatly enjoying my explorations into listening to and

playing Spanish music.  Hope you do to.


Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia

Dennis R. Sherman                 Triangle Research Libraries Network

dennis_sherman at unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill




Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: bq676 at torfree.net (Kristine E. Maitland)

Subject: Re: Period Songs in Spanish

Organization: Toronto Free-Net

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 00:55:39 GMT




and here are two more cds:


_O Lusitano: Portuguese vilancetes, cantigas and romances_  Circa 1550

with Gerard Lesne (Virgin Classics


_Senhora del mundo: Spanish and Portuguese vihuela songs_

Sara Stowe (soprano -- a woman who looks too much like Madonna) and

Matthew Spring (vihuela)


Don't let the Portuguese fool you. Most of it was written in Spanish by

the 16th century (if the "s" at the end of a word sounds like "gshg" --


Ines Carmen Maria de Freitas



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: dbullard at ivory.trentu.ca

Subject: Re: Period Songs in Spanish

Organization: Trent University, Peterborough

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:27:00 GMT


In article <4830vg$qri at newsbf02.news.aol.com>, gileshill at aol.com (Gileshill) writes:

>In article <47qitk$js8 at news1.inlink.com>, kolsoft <kolsoft at inlink.com>


>>>Does anyone have or know about any tapes/sheet music of Spanish

>>>folk/period songs?  While my persona is Spanish, my knowledge of

>>>Spanish vocal music is limited to Mexican corridas and boleros

>>>(woefully out of period!!).  I'd like to have some more authentic stuff

>>>to sing at bardic nights and post-revels

There is a Boston Group called Live Oak.  In 1989, they recorded A CD called

the Lost Spindle, where they have taken period  Cancionero - Castillian,

Catalan, Portugeuse French and Italian - songs and put them together to make

musical theatre.    According to my jacket information, "LiveOak and Company is

a leader in the performance of early Spanish music.  This is the ensemble's

fourth recording."  I got my copy from the Musical Heritage Society, which has

a lot of recorded medieval music.  Their 1800 number is 1(800)526-5008.  (at

lesat in Canada.  They are based in New Jersey, ande their fax is

(908)517-0438. If you contact them, they may know how you can contact LiveOak.

Good Luck.


Mikhailo Zavadovsky

Oy comamos y bebamos y cantemos y holguemos.

(Today let us eat and drink and sing and amuse ourselves)



From: dpeters at panix.com (D. Peters)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Christmas Carols?

Date: 15 Jan 1996 17:25:07 -0500

Organization: Panix


Snorri Karlsson <snorri at gargamel.ptw.com> wrote:

>Does anyone know of a source for period Christmas carols? I know I'm

>getting started rather early, but I'd like to have my research completed

>before the next Christmas season.  


You're in luck--there's lots of it, especially if you include related

material (written about St. Nicholas, the BVM, etc.).  If you enjoy

spending great chunks of time in music libraries, you could search by

composer, or search through modern editions of period mss. (such as the

_Old Hall Manuscript_, etc.), but I would recommend starting with the

_Oxford Book of Carols_.  Make sure it's the new, revised edition; it's

arranged chronologically, and is pretty good about attributing sources,

and is broader in scope than the earlier ed. (which seemed to be either

mostly "traditional" or standards from the Episcopal/Anglican hymnal).


I have a feeling that this was addressed in a thread sometime in the last

month or so; apologies to anyone who may have written or read words to

this effect before.


Pro musica (et mulsum!),




Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: gl8f at fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)

Subject: Re: Period Christmas Carols?

Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia


In article <snorri-1401961726580001 at loki30.ptw.com>,

Snorri Karlsson <snorri at gargamel.ptw.com> wrote:


>Does anyone know of a source for period Christmas carols? I know I'm

>getting started rather early, but I'd like to have my research completed

>before the next Christmas season.  


The annotated music bibliography that I'm accumulating has a few

entries for carols, which I've reproduced here. If anyone has any

additions, please email me. The entire document is available on the

Web if you start at the main SCA server, and go to A&S and then





Greene, Richard Leighton, ed. The Early English Carols.

Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1977. ISBN 0-19-812715-4.


HRJ: [...] a collection of all known English carol lyrics from the

16th century and earlier, arranged generally by topic, and with an

excellant introduction on the nature and uses of the carol. Its only

major fault is in having no musical notation whatsoever, but in many

cases none is known for particular lyrics.


[ SH mentions that the music for 30 early carols is found in Robbins ]


Keyte, Hugh and Parrott, Andrew. The New Oxford Book of

Carols. Oxford University Press, 1992. ISBN 0-19-353323-5

$125. The Shorter New Oxford Book of Carols. Oxford

University Press, 1993. ISBN 0-19-353324-3. $16.95.


From an ad: The full book contains 201 carols, many in more than one

setting, both composed carols and folk carols. Concise notes on

background; bibliography. The shorter book contains 120 carols in 173

different settings, and is much cheaper.


Selections from this book are featured on EMI Classic's "The Carol

Album", "The Christmas Album", and "Carol Album 2".


Musica Britiannica.


vol 4 Medieval Carols


vol 36 Early Tudor Songs and Carols,

        half-dozen solos, mostly 2-3 voices


Robbins, Rossell Hope, ed. Early English Christmas

Carols. Columbia University Press, 1961.


According to SH, contains music for 30 carols. Also refers to Stevens

as "the comparable [standard] work for the music of the carols". This

book is actually an 87-page score, with 3 pages of bibliography.



Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 14:52:57 -0600 (CST)

From: Ben Tucker <btuck at minstrel.com>

To: Mark Harris <mark_harris at quickmail>

Subject: Re: FWD>RE>Ideas for an aspirin


Greetings Unto Stefan from Owen:

> I saw this message on the Rialto recently. So, what is the Northshield

> SongBook and how can I get a copy? If the idea behind it is for knowledge

> dispersement and not money making, would you be interested in letting me

> make it available with my other files in the SCA Rialto Files? I will

> of course, keep any credits in it and any copyright or copying restrictions

> notices intact.


The Singbook is a semi-commercial project ($10)  The objective is to get

the material out there, but I need to cover my production costs.  It is

a book of songs for singing in Northshield, not mostly about or by

the Northshieldings (though I wrote a few of them).


The content is mostly public domain (except for the few I wrote, which are

copyrighted -- but free to perform non-commercially).


However, the layout (typography) took some time and effort, and I don't

want people just making copies of it -- the book contains notation for all

but one of the songs in it.


In all it's 70 songs, 69 with music. Not Filk, mostly period or

pass-for-pgriod stuff.


Copies are $10 each. Checks payable to Ben Tucker.

Discount available on purchases of 5 or more copies.


There is also a "Well Versed Issue" of the Principality Newsletter, the

Northwatch, available for $5.50 available from Kenric Malmberg

<malmberg at badlands.nodak.efu>, the P. Chronicler.  This issue contains

20+ songs *by* Northshieldings.  There is little overlap between the two

volumes (only one song), and includes music for most of the songs (all the

non-filk ones).



                           )             )                 Ben Tucker

Owen Alun              at     )_____________)     &       (612) 872-2201

Wandering Minstrel     \----------|-----------/      2111 11th Ave. S

Northshield, Midrealm   \_btuck at minstrel.com_/  Minneapolis, MN 55404



Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:24:10 -0400 (EDT)

From: "Greg Lindahl" <lindahl at pbm.com>

To: minstrel at pbm.com, sca-arts at listproc.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: CA 91 (Early Child Ballads) on the web


Thanks to the author, Dani Zweig, the contents of Compleat

Anachronist # 91, Early Child Ballads, is now available on

the web.




-- gb



Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:10:15 -0400 (EDT)

From: "Greg Lindahl" <lindahl at pbm.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Musical reference material


> All three of the above are available in modern editions, edited by John

> Stevens (London, Musica Britannica Series, Vols XVIII, 1969, and XXXVI,

> 1975).  Both of these volumes are available and currently in print.


In this series, there are also other volumes of interest. Here's

a list out of my early music bibliography:


vol 4 Medieval Carols


vol 6 Ayres for 4 voices (John Dowland),

         many suitable for one voice, or one voice and one instrument


vol 15 Music of Scotland 1500-1700,

         only 2 solos, which are post-period


vol 18 Music at the Court of Henry VIII,

         all 2, 3, 4, 5+ part pieces


vol 36 Early Tudor Songs and Carols,

         half-dozen solos, mostly 2-3 voices


vol 53-54 Collected English Lutenist Partsongs


vol 55 Elizabethan Keyboard Music


vol 62 Four-part Fantasias (Alfonso Ferrabosco [the Younger])




I believe that these volumes are pretty expensive, but most good

libraries should have them.


-- gb



Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 08:44:46 -0600

From: "Deborah Sweet"<dssweet at okway.okstate.edu>

To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

Subject: ANST - Troubadours was  Bill de Provence


<I hope this helps.  If anyone is interested in research on the

<Troubadours, I've tracked down some pretty good sources, and would be

<glad to help.


<Robert Fitzmorgan

<Barony of Northkeep


Here's a new book on troubadours:


     Songs of the Troubadours and Trouveres: An Anthology of Poems and  

     Melodies. Edited by Samuel Rosenberg, Margaret Switten & Gerard Le  

     Vot. ISBN: 0-8153-1341-1. Garland Publishing. 1997.

         - Translation of all texts

         - 144 newly edited songs - most include musical text

         - Includes audio CD of 12 pieces



I found it in the Garland Music catalog that just came out this month.





Subject: Re: ANST - Bard books

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 13:52:12 MST

From: HARMOSK at mapcoinc.com

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


As long as were talking about songs and such,

http://www.chivalry.com/cantaria/ is a great site! They have recordings

of most of the songs listed there, so you're not left thinking " well,

that's a great looking song, wonder how it sounds."





Subject: Re: ANST - Bard books

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 23:30:56 MST

From: sjohns at mail.utexas.edu (Elaine Rien)

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


Try digging around Ioseph of Locksley's site.  I got my copy of Stephen's

book off of his FTP site, which I no longer seem to have an address to.  His

web page is at http://www.primenet.com/~ioseph


I tried to go digging around for it myself, but my connection is being a bit

flaky tonight for some reason.



Subject: Re: ANST - Looking for notes

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 99 13:53:20 MST

From: Brent Hanner <behanner at mindspring.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


Pelfrey wrote:

> Does anyone know of web sites that have sca and or period music with notes.

> I can find lyrics all over the place but not the music.


I can't help you with websites but I know of a book that has some.

"The Songs of the Minnesinger, Prince Wizlaw of Rugen"  Has not only

songs but also music.  Wizlaw was a north German Prince around 1300.

And I happen to have the book in front of me and will for atleast a

few weeks longer because the library is closed until further notice.






From: Ester Mendes <celyn at drizzle.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Songs

Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:47:41 -0700


Lord Richard Godfrey wrote:

> I am looking for Period Fighting songs. Or just Songs in general


I'll suggest the Agincourt Carol (Deo Gracias).  I believe it appears



Greenberg, Noah, music ed. and W.H. Auden and Chester Kallman, text

eds. An Elizabethan Songbook: Lute Songs, Madrigals and

Rounds. London: Faber & Faber, 1968.


It's a fairly standard work, so most libraries have it.


Spanish Romances of the Sixteenth Century by Thomas Binkley and Margit

Frenk has several pieces involving battles and dead knights.  It's

published by Indiana University Press, 1995

(ISBN: 0-253-20964-1).  The book has both Spanish lyrics and English



You might want to take a look at my Singer's Guide to Early Music,

kindly hosted by Greg Lindahl at



Ester Mendes

(Kirsti Thomas)

celyn at drizzle.com



Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:56:32 -0700

From: Elizabeth Young <lizyoung at fenris.net>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Period music


> Danielle Durham wrote:

> I am a new minister of A&S in the Barony of the Bridge in the East

> Kingdom. One of my main goals is to compile a collection of period

> music, mostly with lyrics. I have been having trouble finding sheet

> music. Could anyone recomend a source, i.e. a catalog, website, or

> good store in the area?

> Thanks,

> Baroness Aikaterine Lukanina of Haus Von Drachenklaue


www.bems.com (Boulder Early Music) Start with collections under vocal

music. Much of this is not period, but they do have period stuff in



www.areditions.com (Early music publisher in Madison Wi). These may not

be what you are looking for, but I really like these editions. But

they're not cheap.


London Pro Musica editions. Call around to your local music store

(preferably one near a university/college w/ an early music program) to

see if they carry these editions. Also available from boulder.




'A'isha bint Khalil al-Herati



From: "j'lynn yeates" <jyeates at realtime.net>

To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: ANST - Paging Her Excellency Xene!

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 13:07:13 -0500


> [mailto:owner-ansteorra at ansteorra.org]On Behalf Of Heather Ault

> ... I am looking for some period (Elizabethan) sheet music for

> flute and I am 0-5 so far. I've tried Mr. E's, Brooks-Mays and I've

> started looking on the internet.


maybe these links will be of use ....


Frank Music Company Classical Music of All Publishers



The Internet center for free sheet music downloads



The Free Sheet Music Ring



Sheet Music Online





Tudor and Elizabethan Church Music Information Exchange









Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Looking for some period songs for my son who is interested in Bardic

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:11:43 -0700 (PDT)

From: "Padraig Ruad O'Maolagain" <padraig_ruad2 at yahoo.com>

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org


--- Brown Chass <dwarvenhome at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Could someone please post an url for some period

> songs. My 9 year old son is very interested in Bardic

> and loves to sing and well i was told by a bard to

> encourage this in him (like i wouldn't anyway lol) so i

> am asking is there a page with period songs for d/l so

> he can know some?

> Charinthalis Del Sans Armorer Extrodinare


The SCA Minstrel Homepage has some good links at



Also try the Mudcat Cafe at http://www.mudcat.org/ and

click on the Digital Tradition Folksong Database,

which has many period songs, and also try clicking on

The Mudcat Cafe for Kids.


In Service,




Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Looking for some period songs for my son who is interested in Bardic

Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 16:43:12 -0400

From: "Lady Simone Ui'Dunlainghe" <lady_simone at code-works.com>

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org


Here are a few of the On-line sources I have found hope they help.


Child Ballads (Child in this case is a reference source, not a young




Legends Ballads and Broadsides



The Ballad Index



Traditional Song Lyrics



Sixteenth Century Ballads: A work in progress...



If you want more sources PLease let me know I have many of them for

Song story and poem.


Lady Simone



From: Abby Sale <AntiSpam-asale at ft.newyorklife.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Digital Child Ballads CD

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:24:13 -0500


I happily pass on this message (ad) from Dick Greenhaus of Digital

Tradition fame.  It's a goody worth invading the Group about.  If

interested, reply directly to him.  I have no interest in Camsco except as

a customer.  If complaining, reply directly to me (de-spam my address).


Abby Sale



Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:18:45 -0500


CAMSCO Music has just received an OK to sell the digital edition of

Child's English and Scottish Popular Ballads on CD. This consists of two

CDs: 1., a fully searchable and printable text with new essays, new maps

and a gazetteer, MIDI files, and annotation, index and glossary

hyperlinks; and 2., an audio CD (pop it in your stereo) containing new

music tracks and interviews with outstanding contemporary interpreters,

preservers, and collectors of the living song traditions. Full ballad

performances from Jean Ritchie, Martin Carthy, Joan Baez, Louis Killen,

Roberts & Barrand, Heather Wood, Anita Best, Archie Fisher, Heather

Heywood, the Patons, and others. This edition, at this time, is a

PC-only single-user edition. For details, check out heritagemuse.com It

is IMHO a major step forward in folklore publications.


As has been the case in the past, I'm trying to find out how many folk

are interested before I quote a price. The more volume, the lower the

price to me and the greater the discount (from the publisher's price of

$125 + shipping) I can provide. Please PM me, or call at 800/548-FOLK

(3655) or E-mail me at dick at camsco.com


I wish I could just place a large order and hope for sales, but frankly

there's no way I can lay out the cash.


dick greenhaus


-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -

                 I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida



To:    Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Music

Posted by: "Greg Lindahl" lindahl at pbm.com   wumpus02

Date: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:11 pm (PDT)


On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:26:40PM -0000, Madeleine Delacroix wrote:

> My son is interested at playing at our upcoming Yule feast but

> trying to find music is killer, does anyone know of a good source of

> Medieval and Renaissance sheet music for a violin (I know, post period,

> but that is what he plays.)


Hello! The violin is pretty close to period: it achieved its current

shape in the late 1500s. The internals and bow and chin rest were

changed a bit after, but, it's reasonably close.


You can find lots of sheet music at:



-- Gregory



To:    Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Music

Posted by: "wodeford" wodeford at yahoo.com   wodeford

Date: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:38 pm (PDT)


--- In Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com, "Madeleine Delacroix"

<madeleinedelacroix at ...> wrote:

> My son is interested at playing at our upcoming Yule feast but

> trying to find music is killer, does anyone know of a good source of

> Medieval and Renaissance sheet music for a violin (I know, post period,

> but that is what he plays.)


If you are looking specifically for Christmas themed music, may I

recommend the New Oxford Book of Christmas Carols. Runs about $30 new

in paperback, but SO worth it - a significant chunk of the songs in it

date to SCA period and there are copious notes with each piece as well.


Jehanne de Wodeford

West Kingdom



To:    Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: 1Book of Music: 15th century French/German music

Posted by: "wodeford" wodeford at yahoo.com   wodeford

Date: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:38 pm (PDT)


--- In Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com, "Jewel" <avani_pari2 at ...> wrote:

> Firstly, I am not sure if there are any period music books for me to

> start looking at to get ideas of what exactly I want to do. Does

> anyone know of any examples on-line?


http://www.diamm.ac.uk/index.html is an online library of medieval

music manuscripts. Get a log-in, it's worth it.


http://www.artlevine.com/15_16th_century.aspx has some midi files and

PDF notation available for download that fit your specified time period.


Must dash - I have a class this evening. Will post more as I think of



Jehanne de Wodeford

West Kingdom



To:    Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: 1Book of Music: 15th century French/German music

Posted by: "Ruth" blaze2242 at gmail.com   blaze2242

Date: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:58 pm (PDT)


MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our many members who receive their list email in digest form, we ask that you not top post your replies and snip any portion of the previous message that does not require repetition. Please also be sure to sign your posts. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.


Message order reversed:

--- In Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com, "Jewel" <avani_pari2 at ...> wrote:


> Firstly, I am not sure if there are any period music books for me to

> start looking at to get ideas of what exactly I want to do. Does

> anyone know of any examples on-line?


First of all, this sounds like an amazing project! And an ambitious

one. I wish you the best of luck.


One thing to keep in mind is that for much of the SCA period there was

not a standardized way of writing down music. From your post it is

unclear what level of knowledge you have about music and reading

music, so I apologize if this is information you already have. The

shape of notes and location of notes, as well as size and coloring

effected them, and it wasn't always the same from place to place.

Music was originally written down by religious men and women as a way

to document their liturgical music and teach it to others, so they

weren't necessarily making it so just anyone could sit down and read

it. Ballads, chansons, and more popular songs were often not written

down at all, and the bards of the time would not necessarily have know

how to write down music if they had wanted to. For ease of the modern

performing, I might recommend sacrificing some of the authenticity by

writing the music in a modern standard form, with medieval stylings.

Look at Gregorian chants etc. for how the music looked, and try and

utilize the aesthetics into the more standardized musical language.


This page has some later period links to scans.



http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/ssrg/medieval/mss/gallery.html has

some earlier manuscripts.


And this is an image that I particularly liked.




To:    Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: 1Book of Music: 15th century French/German music

Posted by: "Cynthia J Ley" cley at juno.com

Date: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:41 pm (PDT)


try googling:

medieval Renaissance chansonniers online


I can't recall the URLs right at the moment, but I know there are some in

library and museum collections and are online.



lower An Tir



Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:12:17 +1100

From: "Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej at gmail.com>

Subject: [Lochac] 13thC songs

To: "The Shambles, the SCA Lochac mailing list" <lochac at sca.org.au>




plays via flash or various stream formats including ogg for you FOSS types.


The lyrics to the first track are here



Makes me realise that in the 13thC I'd not speak the language...


I wonder though if the tempo should be upped, the song as interpreted

here is very gentle and almost victorian drawing-room, should it be a

roclicking "hurray, it's warm and the birds and the bees are doing






From: Thomas von Holthausen <tvh.b3r.calontir at GMAIL.COM>

Date: December 29, 2009 5:32:02 PM CST

To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu

Subject: [CALONTIR] Ballads microencyclopedia


Those knowledgeable about our period's music may already be familiar with this site, but I was just looking for words to the Garry Owen [of Seventh Calvary fame] and stumbled on to it and find it worth sharing.  


Dancers might also find it useful as it seems to have all the Child Ballads with tune and lyrics.




Herr Thomas von Holthausen

Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir



From: "Andrew O'Brien" <andrewob at GMAIL.COM>

Date: January 7, 2010 12:16:03 PM CST

To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu

Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Change to CD discussion


<<< 2010/1/7 Thomas von Holthausen <tvh.b3r.calontir at gmail.com>:

It seems to me to be a good idea to begin with those published in the

Compleat Anachronist.


What I have in mind is to learn five or six ballad melodies with the texts

from which they take their names when used elsewhere, then, for performance

purposes, learn a variety of texts to those melodies and try my hand at

writing new texts/lyrics.


Which half dozen ballad melodies, by common title, would you consider to be

the most widely known or used?


Herr Thomas von Holthausen

Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir >>>


That's a tough question. Like all things, it's going to come down to

personal preference, but I'm going to try and be broad-minded, here...


First off, Child # 200. Commonly called, "The Gypsy Laddy"


It's been recorded innumerable times, in innumerable variants,

including even making it into Laws' Broadside index as a separate

ballad. Steeleye Span recorded it as "BlackJack Davie," which isn't

bad, but for my money, I prefer, "Raggle Taggle Gypsy." If you can

find a version by Shannygannock, all the better.


Next, I'd go with Child #4, "Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight"


Another commonly told story. It's highly reminicient of the Perrault

story, "Bluebeard." If you can get hands on it, Danu does a great

version called, "The Outlandish Knight."


For number three, Child #10, "The Twa Sisters."


There are a pile of versions of this, one of the most widely

circulated being Loreena McKennit's "The Bonny Swans," which is a

highly truncated version of the song sung in a soaring soprano, which

has the issue of makind some of the words indistinct, as Sopranos are

oft wont to do, unfortunately. The original version I heard was off a

collection tape one of my Folklore profs had from interviews done in

Cape Breton in the late 70s, so I can't recommend you a definitive

version, only that Loreena's tune and the one from Dr. Lovelace's tape

were very similar, but the gent on the tape had more words to the



At number four on this Classic Brittish Ballads countdown, we have,

Child #26, "The Three Ravens"


Nothing like a good, rousting tale of murder, abandonment, and

scavengers to make a man feel alive. The, I would posit, most

commonly-known version of this tune is, "The Twa Corbies." Another one

you can find done by Steeleye Span (A damned good version, too) or in

other sounces. In my opinion, it's not done often enough, but then, I

love a good tragedy. The original Child text  and the more common,

"Twa Corbies" have some radical differences, with the Child bearing

elements found in versions of "Teh Rearguard's Lament," and even,

"Witch of the Westmoreland." IT's ultimately up to yourself whether or

not you want to go with an unfortunate dead guy, or a petrayed and

abandoned dead guy.


Coming in at #5, we have one everyone should know, thanks to S&G,

Child #2, "The Elfin Knight"


More commonly called, Scarborough Faire, it's a child ballad with a

lot of interesting twists and variances. In one version (I think it

might be the original Child), The Elvin Knight makes a load of

impossible demands of the Maiden (make me a Holland Shirt without

thread, etc), who in turn sets him his own tasks (Plowing the land,

etc) before she'll consent to attempt the shirt.Thousands of people

have recorded this, but the most common tune would be the S&G version,

"Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme."


And rounding things out at #6, there's Child # 81, "The Little

Musgrave and Lady Barnard."


Most commonly called, "Matty Groves," or "Matthew Groves," this song

is something fo a folk staple. It even found its way into the movie

about Appelachian Folk Music, "The Songcatcher." It's a tale of

betrayal, comeuppance, sex, and murder. It's also a personal favourite

of my Pelican. If I had to recommend a version, I'd try and hunt up

one done by Billy Diamond, or, if you're extremely lucky, Anita Best.

Anita does the best I've heard, but I've only heard her do it live, so

that's a bit hard. She adds a kind of chorus line to the end of it.


Well... There you go. If I had to pick six, those would be my six.

Hope this helped.


-- Diarmaid O Briain



From: Mathurin Kerbusso <mathurin at CALONSOUND.INFO>

Date: January 7, 2010 5:03:53 PM CST

To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu

Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Change to CD discussion


Lorraine Gehring wrote:

<<< Mathurin has done some research about Child's collection. He is up to his

dupa in alligators at work today, but I'm sure he'd be happy to discuss

Child's ballads later. Drop him a line. >>>


I am not going to be able to go into any detail until probably long after

this thread dies, but the best (i.e., most likely closest to Period while

still being readily available) recordings of Child ballads are likely to

come from recordings by A.L. Lloyd, the Watersons, Waterson-Carthy, Martin

Carthy, or Eliza Carthy and their peers/contemporaries. Google those names

and follow the links to find other names that are escaping me at the



That branch of British Isles folk is based on an earlier folk revival that

was intent on preserving the originals intact, as collected. The later

movements that include Steeleye Span, Fairport Convention, etc. were

intent on bringing the music to more modern sensibilities. Both are great,

but they produce very different results.





From: Mathurin Kerbusso <mathurin at CALONSOUND.INFO>

Date: January 9, 2010 1:22:01 PM CST

To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu

Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Change to CD discussion


On 1/8/2010 10:58 AM, Thomas von Holthausen wrote:

<<< Thanks, this is just the sort of info I need to work with on Amazon. >>>


Just a few more things that might help, having a bit of time this morning to dig through my mp3 collection and bookmarks.


Some other artist's names to look for:

John Fleagle

Ewan MacColl


A catalogue of Child ballads, no tunes, but many of the lyric variants:



A collection of links on the subject of Period ballads that I would be a fool to try and re-create:



Some things to be aware of when dealing with the ballads in an SCA context (what follows is HIGHLY simplified):


Child collected all his ballads from extent texts. He did not collect tunes. He probably never heard any of them sung by a "native" singer. So all the tunes you will hear are from other sources, and may have been attached to the lyrics quite recently.


Child collected his ballads and songs in the 1880s and 1890s. But the ballads went through a couple of periods of -- anachronistic? -- influence Post Period.

The first was broadside printing (call the height of it the mid-1600s but well into the 1800s), when the printers snapped up anything they could set to type and sold it on the street. A lot of the ballads got rewritten many different ways and "prettied up" with language that the broadside writers and printers thought made them seem more antique, cultured, or whatever they thought would sell better. A lot of classical references got attached to folk ballads during this period.


The second was the Inclosure Acts (call it mid-1700s to early 1800s) which sent many of the peasantry into the cities. The music halls took the the old ballads that their new clientele expected and morphed them to fit the venue, instruments, and musical styles that had developed in the urban environment.


Both of these waves of change filtered back to the villages and got incorporated into the folk songs there.


Baring-Gould didn't see these inclusions as much of a problem . Sharp hated what he considered corruptions and tried to only collect versions that were "clean" -- in his opinion. Lloyd considered them important to the folk process and reveled in them.


Ravenscroft published some of them just post-Period so you can get a feel for the kind of changes that occurred in between. There are other similar sources for many of them. But just be aware there are varying levels of "authenticity" when it comes to the ballads, in case you start thinking about a more formal A&S entry.



"Non nobis solum"



From: Raymond Wickham <insidious565 at hotmail.com>

Date: September 10, 2010 11:11:37 PM CDT

To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>, silfren <zebeej at gmail.com>, stefan <stefanlirous at austin.rr.com>, oonagh <oonaghme at bigpond.net.au>, melissa <melissa080888 at hotmail.com>, miguel heatwole <mheatwole at bigpond.com>, jodie <wakumallama at gmail.com>, crispin sexi <crispin at homemail.com.au>

Subject: roxburghe and pepys ballads made easy



this website has a search engine which brings up ballads by tune or names

there is a link on each entry with a performance of the work





Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 19:47:58 +1000

From: Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com>

Subject: [Lochac] troubador song

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

        <lochac at lochac.sca.org>


performance, lyrics, and translation.




The translation could probably be sung to the tune....





Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:48:33 -0700 (PDT)

From: Douglas Grant <epiphianos at yahoo.com>

To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org

Subject: [MR] Songs for Bardic Circles


I recall having cassette tapes (it was that long ago...) for the 'standard songs all bards should know' when I was out in Caid...but most of those that I recall are now out of fashion (when was the last time someone played "Burden of the Crown" or "April Witch") - now I tend to just collect songbooks, of which Master Ioseph's "Black Book of Locksley" is, so far, the most exhaustive I have found, provided you know or can find the tune - while it is mostly filks, there are many original and period songs in there...and goodly bit of his poetry...


Additionally, check out www.imslp.org there is a lot of good, period songbooks there (I found all of Dowland's works...)...sorry I can't tell you more about the taps, but if anybody does find them, I want a copy!


Dughall-Eoghann LeGrannd

Shire of Spiaggia Levantina



Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 19:06:43 +1000

From: Paul Sleigh <bat at flurf.net>

Subject: [Lochac] The Known Words

To: "Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list" <lochac at lochac.sca.org>


The Known Words is a songbook I've been producing, using, sharing and

occasionally selling for long enough that it's old enough now to drink, vote

and be shot at by uniformed foreigners.  For some years now it's been

available for download at http://flurf.net/tkw, but for those who don't have

the time, paper or expensive ring-binding machine, I've made a print run of

the latest revision.


TKW: Second Ethereal Edition is just the same as the First Ethereal Edition

from 2008 or so, but with an extra song or two and a hell of a lot of fixed

typos. It's available for $20 plus postage (from Geeveston, Tasmania 7116)

which is pretty much cost price. You can see exactly what you're getting at

the above link; the printed version has a robust cover and ring-binding.


Let me know if you want some, at <bat at flurf.net>.


: Bat :



To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com

Subject: For people wishing to research dutch music .... or dutch culture ...

Posted by: "Eowyn Cenek" eowyn.cenek at gmail.com e_cenek

Date: Fri Sep 2, 2011 8:31 am ((PDT))


While avoiding work and procrastinating, I found I found the Dutch

Song Database (http://www.liederenbank.nl/resultaatlijst.php?zoek=1006826&;actie=lieduitbron&lan=en)

which includes all the known dutch medieval songs, including

information about the original source.


"The Meertens Institute


established in 1926, has been a research institute of the Royal

Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences (KNAW) since 1952. We study

the diversity in language and culture in the Netherlands. Our focus is

on contemporary research into factors that play a role in determining

social identities in the Dutch society."


Having just found the site, I am enjoying myself to the hilt.  Please

note that babelfish and the other online translators typically dislike

old english.  :)





From: Doug & Deb Kuehne <kuehned at OSAGE.NET>

Date: December 4, 2011 10:48:48 AM CST

To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu

Subject: [CALONTIR] 15th century communal songs


(watch the link wrap)






<the end>

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