recorders-msg - 1/28/00 Medieval recorders. playing, buying. NOTE: See also the files: instruments-msg, flutes-msg, song-sources-msg, p-songs-msg, bagpipes-msg, trumpets-msg, trumpet-build-art, SI-songbook1-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Draskoy) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Recorders (was Irish Music) Date: 5 Apr 1994 19:22:11 GMT Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland sj6070f90 at auvax1.adelphi.edu wrote: > but it is ok to use a plastic recorder in place of a wooden one If you are interested in differences between period music and modern, you should note that there's another, even bigger difference. As far as we can tell from the one-and-a-half extant ones, Medieval recorders were quite different beasts from the baroque-based modern recorders that we use now. For one thing, the bore was cylindrical, not conical. It also appears that the instruments were stopped, not open, at the bottom. I'm no luthier, but I think the former difference means a slightly reduced range and a louder tone, and the later would drop the pitch by an octave. There are other differences as well. Hunt, Edgar: The Recorder and its Music, Eulenberg, London, 1977 _The New Grove Dictionary of Musical Instruments_, vol. 3, p. 207 Weber, Rainer: "Recorder Finds from the Middle Ages, and Results of their Reconstruction,", _Galpin Society Journal_ vol. XXIX (May 1976) Pp. 35-41 -- Miklos Sandorfia of Ar n-Eilean-ne andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca From: sbloch at ms.uky.edu (Stephen Bloch) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Recorders (was Irish Music) Date: 9 Apr 1994 00:37:31 -0400 Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences Andrew Draskoy <andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca> wrote: >If you are interested in differences between period music and modern, >you should note that there's another, even bigger difference. As far >as we can tell from the one-and-a-half extant ones, Medieval recorders >were quite different beasts from the baroque-based modern recorders >that we use now. Even this "one-and-a-half" is putting a good face on it, since (if I remember right) the "one" had obviously undergone major modifications and less-than-successful repairs before it was lost for 500 years. >For one thing, the bore was cylindrical, not conical. >It also appears that the instruments were stopped, not open, >at the bottom. !!!??? This is the first I've heard of such a drastic difference. I'm reading Antique Sound Workshop's catalogue description of reconstructed medieval recorders, and it mentions "extremely wide cylindrical bores" but makes no mention of stopped bottoms. I'll have to check those references Andrew cites. >I'm no luthier, but I think the former difference means >a slightly reduced range and a louder tone, and the later would drop >the pitch by an octave. In my experience with "Renaissance-style" recorders (which also have cylindrical bores), the bore makes the low end of the range a little more solid (anybody who's ever learned the recorder has struggled to develop the breath control to get the bottom note or two without overblowing), at the expense of several notes at the top end. It also seems to produce a windier, less bell-like tone. Wind instruments with stopped tubes do tend to play an octave lower than instruments the same size with open tubes, but you can't just take a recorder and stop the end to take it down an octave. (I just tried this with my alto, and it worked beautifully for the bottom note, but if any holes are open the effect is lost.) -- mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at s.ms.uky.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: <lucinda_lundin at cl_63smtp.gw.chinalake.navy.mil> Subject: Re: Searching for a wooden flute Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 17:32:02 GMT wpeloqui at medar.COM (Willie Peloquin) wrote: > I am looking for a merchant who sells wooden musical > instruments. I would prefer a flute or something > similar. Would a flute be in period? I know I can > purchase a wooden recorder locally, it must be > special ordered. > > Willie I have purchased three recorders from von Huene Workshop, Inc. and have been very happy with their service. They also sell other woodwinds, period and modern. If you have a credit card, they will send you several instruments and will charge you when you make your choice. Two of my instruments came from their extensive consigment selection. They also sell period music and have a small catalog/brochure. Their address is: von Huene Workshop, Inc 65 Boylston St. Brookline, MA 02146 617/277-8690 vonhuene at world.std.com Yours, Lucinda From: shermand at mindspring.com (Dennis R. Sherman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 13:50:05 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan. Aleyse (Chantal Pecourt <cpecourt at mhv.net>) wrote: >recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all >wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about >recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 >for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the >cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play?? I've been playing recorder for >15 years (and other winds for >30). I've never heard of the Kutch brand, but there are *lots* of recorder makers out there... IMHO, you are better off buying a plastic Yamaha 300 series soprano recorder, if soprano is what you want. Not just any plastic recorder, but this specific one. It will cost about $20, and is a very fine instrument. Don't let outdated opinions on plastic vs. wood sway you -- the design of the instrument is far more important to the sound than the material the instrument is made of. At higher prices, with custom and hand built instruments, the material makes a difference. But you need to start at several hundred dollars for a soprano before that becomes a consideration. Especially for SCA use, plastic is a far better choice -- much more durable, much more forgiving of haphazard maintenance. As far as difficult to play... well, it varies. Like any other instrument, it takes practice. You can get to mediocre pretty easily. There are none of the problems of oboe, clarinet, flute, or any of the brass instruments, with learning to make a sound, which is a great advantage. The fingerings are pretty straightforward, and anyone who has played any wind instrument is going to feel fairly comfortable pretty quickly. Getting to be good is more work... :-) Here's two suppliers I've used and am happy with for Early Music things -- I know they both carry the Yamaha plastic recorders. BTW, the Yamaha 300 series is available in sizes from sopranino through bass, and all are good instruments. Von Huene Workshop, Inc. 59-65 Boylston St. Brookline, MA 20146 617-277-8690 Kelischek Workshop Rt. 1 box 26 Brasstown, NC 28902 704-837-5833 If anyone is interested in more discussion of wood vs. plastic, I'll be at Pennsic with both, and happy to help train other people's ears. :-) Robyyan Torr d'Elandris Dennis R. Sherman Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia Chapel Hill, NC robyyan at mindspring.com dennis.sherman at mindspring.com http://www.unc.edu/~sherman/robyyan.html http://www.unc.edu/~sherman/ From: cyberspace at midlink.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder Date: 12 Jul 1996 14:10:30 GMT Organization: Cyberspace In article <31E5A53A.6549 at mhv.net>, Chantal Pecourt <cpecourt at mhv.net> wrote: >Hello > While musical instruemnts are not specificly "toys" I took the >term in a generic sense to mean what we as adults like to play with. ( >that and I cannot figure out how to start a post, forgive me ). I >recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all >wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about >recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 >for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the >cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play?? > >many thanks > >Aleyse Oh, goody! Something I know about! <BG> $48 is very reasonable for a soprano recorder--it's what mine cost 7 yrs ago. How easy it is to learn depends on how much music experience you already have, what books you can get, and how much--if any--help you can get if you want it. There are many people in the Society who play recorders of various types and would be willing to teach, I being one--however I got into a medieval music group in college, learned about the SCA at a ren faire we were to perform at and then joined :). Two very helpful self-teach books are: the _Hugh Orr Basic Recorder Technique(soprano/alto)_, and the _Von Trapp Family Book on the Soprano Recorder_--I lent out my copy and can't remember the exact name. If you can get into an ensembe, do. I miss the challenge of playing one part that needs to blend with several. Hope this helps! In Service to the Dream, Erzsebet From: uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu (Frank Reinart) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder Date: 13 Jul 1996 17:03:45 GMT Organization: Montana Tech In article <31E5A53A.6549 at mhv.net>, Chantal Pecourt <cpecourt at mhv.net> writes: >Hello > While musical instruemnts are not specificly "toys" I took the >term in a generic sense to mean what we as adults like to play with. ( >that and I cannot figure out how to start a post, forgive me ). I >recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all >wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about >recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 >for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the >cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play?? Speaking from the perspective of a recorder player, I believe that you will find a recorder a very easy instrument to pick up. I've taught several people to play before, and had an easy time of it, even when those people had never played an instrument before. It also benefits as a fairly common instrument, with plenty of music out there and available for it. Of course, there are also benefits to playing live music at SCA dancing, rather than relying on the crutch of a bard-in-a-box (nothing is more annoying than to have to stop a Hole In the Wall dance because the blasted tape was finished :) ). $48 seems to me to be pretty inexpensive for most of the wooden recorders I've seen (one reason why I don't own one right now). I don't know how much of a reflection that is on the quality of the instrument, so it might be good to find a good recorder player in your area to check the instrument out before you buy it. As far as wooden versus plastic, that's a little at your discretion. Wooden recorders, of course, look period, while most plastic ones do not. But that's really a pretty moot point to me. I've played both at SCA events and not had any comments about the lack of authenticity surrounding the plastic recorder. Rather, most people are just glad for live music, no matter where it's coming from (and for those that do have an authenticity problem, I've been to a wide variety of events, and seen far more bards-in-a-box at SCA dancing then I've seen live recorder music). Wooden recorders are far more difficult to upkeep, and you'd want to have someone show you how that is done. Moisture, somewhat common at outdoor SCA events can also ruin a wooden recorder, despite your best efforts to preserve it. Plastic is somewhat susceptible to temperature, but I've never had a serious problem with that (and I've played in a wide variety of temperatures). Really, if it's a good recorder, I'd pick up that wooden one, because $48 seems a reasonable price to me (and cheaper than a lot I have seen), but pick yourself up a $3 some plastic recorder too, for those times when a wooden one isn't appropriate to play. If you have any questions you'd like to ask me, feel free to email me. I won't have that address passed the end of July though. In the Service, Edmund Snowden ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ * Frank D. Reinart uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu * * Montana Tech * ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu (Frank Reinart) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder Date: 13 Jul 1996 17:07:02 GMT Organization: Montana Tech In article <4s5mcm$o2p at news.paonline.com>, cyberspace at midlink.com writes: >Two very helpful self-teach books are: the _Hugh Orr Basic Recorder >Technique(soprano/alto)_, and the _Von Trapp Family Book on the Soprano >Recorder_--I lent out my copy and can't remember the exact name. The basic recorder book published by Mel Bay is another really good book. It's the one I learned from, and the one both I and Lady Aoife teach others from. In the Service, Edmund Snowden ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ * Frank D. Reinart uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu * * Montana Tech * ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: barbanis at vnet.ibm.COM (George Barbanis) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Recorders Date: 15 Jul 1996 02:47:27 -0400 Organization: The Internet While on the subject of the recorders, you may want to check this web page out: http://www.iinet.net.au/~nickl/recorder.html It has excellent material on recorders, including very detailed fingering charts etc. No, I have not written that page, but I wish I had :-) In Service Alexios Macedon Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: bq676 at torfree.net (Kristine E. Maitland) Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder Message-ID: <DuMELu.9EM.0.sheppard at torfree.net> Organization: Toronto Free-Net 4ru033$3up at pith.uoregon.edu> <31E5A53A.6549 at mhv.net>: Organization: Toronto Free-Net Chantal Pecourt (cpecourt at mhv.net) wrote: : Hello : While musical instruemnts are not specificly "toys" I took the : term in a generic sense to mean what we as adults like to play with. ( : that and I cannot figure out how to start a post, forgive me ). I : recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all : wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about : recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 : for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the : cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play?? While I know nothing about good wood recorders (i.e. what is a good brand to purchase) I can say that to start out, a plastic one will do just fine. Most people start with a soprano recorder but frankly, I prefer the tone of an alto or tenor. If you've played clarinet then you'll find that the alto will not be difficult as the fingerings are practically the same. Are they hard to learn? Well, i got my first recorder when I was seven or so -- the first things I taught myself to play was The Theme from the Friendly Giant (or "Early one morning) and the theme from M*A*S*H ( or "Suicide is Painless"). Trust me, you'll be playing bransles in no time. cantana Ines Carmen Maria de Freitas From: chimera at dove.mtc.net.au Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 01:50:55 GMT Organization: Microtronics Information Systems uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu (Frank Reinart) wrote: >As far as wooden versus plastic, that's a little at your discretion. Wooden >recorders, of course, look period, while most plastic ones do not. But that's >really a pretty moot point to me Well, my sister played one for years before she took up the flute but hated the white plastic look, so I used acrylic paints to create faux finishes ranging from generic wood to tortoiseshell. The acyrlics didn't affect the plastic, and were eacy to touch up if they chipped around the fingerholes. I would advise using black rather than white recorders, because that way you can leave the mouthpiece unpainted without it being glaringly obvious, unless you are creating a faux bamboo instrument for an eastern persona . . . Books on all kinds of paint finishes, including marble, are readily available, and its worth looking them up and experimenting. You can also buy small kits suitable for table-sized projects. Most kits use oil finishes, but you can experiment and adapt the techniques to dry poster paints and acrylics. I do not advocate using them everywhere, but they look less glaring that steel poles on a tent (or wood-grained contact for that matter) and a faux sepentine inset on a feasting box is a lot cheaper than the real thing. When they don't work out perfectly, I take comfort in The Candle-light Factor : almost everything looks passable halfway through a candle-lit feast, and at least you've /tried/. Guimora Peverel From: sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu (Stephen Bloch) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder Date: 18 Jul 1996 12:58:36 GMT Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City, NY Chantal Pecourt (cpecourt at mhv.net) wrote: >: I recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all >: wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about >: recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 >: for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the >: cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play?? A wooden soprano recorder for $48 is probably not very good: the most likely problem is that it won't play in tune, either with itself or with other instruments. For less money you can get an excellent plastic recorder, which is less affected by temperature, humidity, etc. Look for the brands Yamaha, Aulos, or Zen-On. (If you're buying a tenor or larger, I think Yamaha is the only decent choice.) I almost always recommend plastic recorders to beginners; in addition to the above reasons, I wouldn't buy a wooden recorder without personally giving it a good workout first, and a beginner doesn't know enough to do that. Every wooden recorder is different, even the same model from the same maker; every plastic recorder of a given model and maker is pretty similar. If you're worried about _looking_ period, at least one of the aforementioned makers has wood-grain finishes that will pass the ten-foot test. Kristine E. Maitland <bq676 at torfree.net> replied: >While I know nothing about good wood recorders (i.e. what is a good brand >to purchase) I can say that to start out, a plastic one will do just >fine. Most people start with a soprano recorder but frankly, I prefer >the tone of an alto or tenor. Agreed. Altos and tenors cost more, but they're easier to play in tune with one another, and you can practice them late at night without annoying your neighbors and roommates. (Well, not as much :-) Once you've gotten good enough on the recorder that the warmer tone color of wood is worth the added hassle, you have a number of decisions to make. Most commercially available recorders are "Baroque-style", optimized for playing Baroque solos. Most of these have a bunch of ornamental turnings. For medieval and Renaissance music, especially in consort, I prefer a "Renaissance-style" recorder, which has various construction differences that add up to a less reliable high range, a more solid low range, and a less piercing tone; these are generally plainer in appearance. As for makers of wooden recorders, I have a very nice Gill Baroque soprano that only cost me $60 (after I played a minute or two on every one of the dozens of wooden soprano recorders at that particular store). I have a Moeck Renaissance soprano that cost me $100 used; it's OK by itself, but doesn't play in tune with other instruments. I have a Mollenhauer Renaissance alto that cost me $275; it's an excellent instrument, if you don't mind a somewhat windy tone. We have several Kobliczek Renaissance recorders, which are also excellent and a little sweeter in tone; their prices are comparable to Mollenhauers. All of the above instruments are years old, and would probably cost twice as much new today. They're also all at least partly "factory-made"; top-notch hand-made recorders can run $600 for a soprano, and more for larger instruments. So recorders CAN eat big bucks, if you're willing to spend them. But again, you can get an excellent plastic instrument for under $50. Don't worry about the wooden ones until you basically know how to play, and then get advice from a reputable early-musical-instrument dealer like the New England Early Music Shop, the Boulder Early Music Shop, or Courtly Music Unlimited. Also go to early-music workshops and get advice from the teachers and more experienced students. As for "how hard are they to learn to play", the trickiest part is breath control. Ken Wollitz's _The Recorder Book_ has a whole chapter of breath-control exercises that help both beginners and experienced players, in addition to fingering charts, a chapter on buying and maintaining a wooden recorder, and a bunch of other advice. mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib -- Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/ Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University From: FPAGNIEL at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (Frederick Pagniello) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Playing the Recorder Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 18:36:27 EST Organization: University of Georgia In article <5g93fk$ics$1 at cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu> ewhite at cs.wvu.edu (Elliott White III) writes: >2) Is the soprano the only actually period one? I myself am thinking >of playing the Alto so that my wife and I could do some nice duets, >however, I don't want to sink the $30 into buying the alto to have >people walking up to me all the time telling me that it isn't period. No. Period recorders ranged from the sopranino to the bass (I've seen a picture of a period bass of about 7 feet in length, but I do not know its nomenclature). You shouldn't have any problem with selection. Indeed, hopefully you will become proficient in a range of recorders. The only complaint one could make against you is that you are playing a baroque-style recorder. Now, if some does this, then say to them that you will be more than happy to play a period recorder....just fork over the $$$$ (tell them you want a Von Huene or a Morgan). By the by, seek out the players of other period instruments, such as the violaists. You will be pleasently surprised by the results. > >3) Where can we find some nice books of sheet music for period songs? >Our local store has a wonderful book of Elizibethan songs written for >duet: Soprano and Alto, which I think I am going to pick up for my >wife and myself if the Alto is "period enough" Try the following: Von Huene Workshops, 59-76 Boylston Street, Brookline, MA 02146. (617) 277-8690. Courtly Music Unlimited, 1-800-2-RICHIE Either should be able to assist you in your search for music, and they do mail-order. Gnaeus Valerius Sidero. From: dlblanc at earthlink.net (Donald L. Blanchard) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Playing the Recorder Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:51:21 GMT On 13 Mar 1997 14:37:40 GMT, ewhite at cs.wvu.edu (Elliott White III) wrote: >Hello, my wife and I have both decided to take up the recorder and >have been having awonderful time playing it. > >We have a few questions though we were hoping someone could answer us: > >1) Is the only difference between a German and a Barouque recorder the >fingering difference for the Low F? That seems to be the only >difference listed in our Mel Bay: Basic Recorder Method book. Frankly, I am not familiar with a 'German' recorder, although I do recall some fingering differences. The only true period recorders that I know of were made in one piece, which means not tunable. The standard 'Baroque' recorder was made in three pieces, and is technically not period. For practicality (i.e. playing with other musicians), I highly recommend a two piece recorder, period or not. >2) Is the soprano the only actually period one? I myself am thinking >of playing the Alto so that my wife and I could do some nice duets, >however, I don't want to sink the $30 into buying the alto to have >people walking up to me all the time telling me that it isn't period. Definitely not. I have seen references (Henry VIII, if I remember right) to a consort of four recorders, the highest of which was a tenor, with bass, contra-bass, and something else below that. Of course, all four recorders in a period consort were manufactured - and pitched - together; there were no guarantees if you mixed sets! I would recommend that you acquire, and learn to play, as many different pitches as your budget will allow. This allows you a lot more freedom in choosing material to play. BTW, there were at least two pitches of recorder above the soprano, as well (although you might be asked to leave the room if you try to play them in public). BTW, cheap recorders usually don't sound THAT much worse than expensive ones; I suggest you learn to play them well before shelling out big bucks. __ Louis leBlanc, O.L. | Donald L. Blanchard Barony of Caerthe | dlblanc at earthlink.net Kingdom of the Outlands | Denver, Colorado, USA From: dwbutler at mtu.edu (Daniel W. Butler-Ehle) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Playing the Recorder Date: 18 Mar 1997 19:54:47 -0500 Organization: Michigan Technological University Louis leBlanc (dlblanc at earthlink.net) wrote: : On 13 Mar 1997 14:37:40 GMT, ewhite at cs.wvu.edu (Elliott White III) wrote: : : >1) Is the only difference between a German and a Barouque recorder the : >fingering difference for the Low F? That seems to be the only : >difference listed in our Mel Bay: Basic Recorder Method book. : > : Frankly, I am not familiar with a 'German' recorder, although I do recall some : fingering differences. As I understand it, German fingering was invented early in this century during the great early music revival either due to a misunderstanding of of the Baroque-era instruments or as an intentional simplification of the fingering. It avoids the split-finger formation of the low F on the soprano (German-fingered recorders are almost exclusively sopranos). But as you may notice, some sharps and flats are split-fingered, so the value of this simplification is dubious. It's not in use much outside of primary school classrooms. : The only true period recorders that I know of were made in one piece, : which means not tunable. The standard 'Baroque' recorder was made : in three pieces, and is technically not period. Yes, the period Renaissance recorder was a different animal from its Baroque successors. But start with a Baroque recorder anyway. And learn about the differences so that you will at least be able to recognize your anachronisms. *Then* get a Renaisance-style instrument if you're still so inclined. [It would be neat if someone made three- piece Baroque recorders (inverse conical bore, perhaps a curved windway, etc.) that had the outward appearance of their Renaissance counterparts.] (I must admit, I'm hardly familiar with Renaissance fingering, but I would suspect that having a cylindrical bore prevents it from having fingering identical to Baroque recorders. Anyone?) : For practicality (i.e. playing with other musicians), I highly : recommend a two piece recorder, period or not. I second the recommendation. A two- (or three-)piece Baroque recorder. I would also add that if your budget limits your choices to either a bottom-of-the-line wooden recorder or a similarly-priced plastic model, you should consider the plastic one. : I have seen references (Henry VIII, if I remember right) to a : consort of four recorders, the highest of which was a tenor, with bass, : contra-bass, and something else below that. As I understand it, the modern names are: c" Gar Kleine Sopanino (Recoder Piccolo) (rare and annoyingly shrill) f' Sopranino c' Soprano (Descant) f Alto (Treble) c Tenor F Bass C Great Bass F' Contra Bass (about 7 feet tall) (I probably screwed up the pitch notation. In any case, the Tenor starts at middle C on a piano.) How come there's no "Baritone" voice in early instruments? Ulfin Principality of Northshield, M.K. Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:23:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel W. Butler-Ehle" <dwbutler at mtu.edu> To: "Mark S. Harris" <markh at risc.sps.mot.com> Subject: Re: Playing the Recorder On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Mark S. Harris wrote: > Hmm. I still have the wooden recorder I played back in second grade, > long before the plastic ones came out. I believe plastic recorders have been in the classroom since the early 60s. Probably polystyrene at first, now they're ABS. > I've assumed it was a soprano model. Safe assumption. Beginning a student on another size is quite unusual (unless fingerspan is a problem, then maybe they might teach sopranino, but I'm just speculating). (This assumes that it was taught as the student's introduction to instrumental music. If the student is already an instrumentalist, and the teacher is assembling a consort, then certainly they might begin with a different size as needed.) > How do I identify a "German-fingered" recorder? On an English (Baroque) recorder, the fourth hole (from foot to fipple) is smaller than the fifth hole. Vice versa with German fingering. True Baroque fingering (as if it was ever really standardized) had a few small differences from English fingering, which is its modern variant/interpretation. But they are close enough that the terms are usually interchangeable. Or so I've read. I've never seen a fingering chart for antique Baroque recorders. Indeed, I even have several modern recorders that differ slightly from one another on the fingering of some notes (particularly in the second register). Ulfin From: lindahl at pbm.com (Greg Lindahl) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Recorders : Wood vs Plastic, Medieval vs Modern Date: 20 May 1997 13:24:10 GMT "Jeff Foehringer" <jjf100 at ccia.com> writes: > I am looking to purchase a soprano recorder in the next month. At > first, I considered the Yamaha plastic model. Basically, I don't have > over a hundred dollars to spend, and I have heard that a good plastic > recorder is better than a cheap wooden one. Even if you buy an expensive wooden one, it's handy to have a cheap plastic one to let your friends borrow, and take out in inclement weather. > However, the Antique Sound Workshop webpage contains four wooden > recorders that they claim are the best in the price range. I was wondering > if any good gentles have any experience with any of these models. I have friends who own these. They are about the only wooden recorders in that price range, and they really aren't that much better or worse than the cheap Yamaha. Fortunately, they don't cost an arm and a leg, so if you have the cash, please yourself. Neither the Yamaha or the Kung is very renaissance-ish, though. For a renaissance recorder you want a wide, cylindrical bore and large finger holes. I have a "Ganassi" alto in G made by Robert Turner, and it's definitely different from the Kung and plastic, although your average listener wouldn't know. -- gb From: ncb at my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: medieval recorder music Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:01:29 GMT > > hi! I just got a recorder for my birthday (thanks, ric!) and I'd like > > to know what to play on it. snip > Also, there's a music publisher called Sweet Pipes (23 Scholar Lane, > Levittown, NY 11756) that publishes sheet music for the recorder. Don't > know if they have a web site or not. For recorder sheet music, you should definitely check out http://www.sheetmusicplus.com because they list over 7,000 titles just for recorder. From: Daniel W. Butler-Ehle <dwbutler at mtu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: medieval recorder music Date: 18 Nov 1998 22:58:11 GMT Organization: Michigan Technological University Esther Mendes <celyn at drizzle.com> wrote: : On 14 Nov 1998, Pel1inore wrote: : > hi! I just got a recorder for my birthday (thanks, ric!) and I'd like : > to know what to play on it. : Also, there's a music publisher called Sweet Pipes (23 Scholar Lane, : Levittown, NY 11756) that publishes sheet music for the recorder. Don't : know if they have a web site or not. They also publish (I probably don't have a name quite right) the _Sweet Pipes Recorder Book: a method for adult students_. It skips the basic stuff on how to read music (assuming you know already or can figure it out on your own without all the hand-holding common in methods designed for children). It's available in two versions: one for Soprano (and other C recorders, I s'pose) and one for Alto (and sopranino and bass, etc.). The C book and the F book use the same fingerings for the same lessons, the music is just transposed. I was kinda disappointed by that; I think it would be fun for a group of beginners to start out as a consort. (Not that the difference in keys would sound bad when played together, but I would like to have some multi-part stuff that is really simple but isn't entirely parallel.) On that thought, does anyone have any suggestions for forming a novice-level consort? I would like to start a group to play common SCA dance tunes. Anyone know where I might look for simpler-than-average three-part versions of such music? Ulfin <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris recorders-msg