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Period poetry styles and techniques.

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From: sbloch at euler.ucsd.edu (Steve Bloch)

Date: 20 Oct 91 17:09:16 GMT

HZS at psuvm.psu.edu (Therion) cites:

>Lyrics of the Middle Ages, an anthology. / edited by James J. Wilhelm. New

> York, Garland Pub., 1990. isbn 0824033450, 0824070496 (pbk.)

> xix, 341 p. ill. 23 cm.

This sounds very similar, but not identical, to what's on my shelf:

Medieval Song, An Anthology of Hymns and Lyrics

translated by James J. Wilhelm.

E.P.Dutton & Co, New York 1971. sbn 0-525-47297-5

416 p. incl. contents & index

From the back cover:

This comprehensive anthology presents in English translation the full

historical development of medieval poetry from the end of the

classical period, through the religious growth, and finally to the

blossoming of secular lyrics. There are 230 lyrics grouped as

follows: Late Classical poems, Christian hymns, Latin lyrics of

600-1050, Carmina Burana, Provencal songs, Italian, German, and North

French songs, and songs of Great Britain -- chiefly Old and Middle

English. The translator, Professor James J. Wilhelm of Rutgers

University, also includes a selection of [21] original texts in

addition to prefatory essays on all of the texts.

Stephen Bloch

mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib

>sca>Caid>Calafia>St.Artemas

sbloch at math.ucsd.edu

From: habura at vccsouth12.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)

Date: 19 Nov 91 21:42:15 GMT

Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY

No, sorry. I know of no poetry form with that scheme. (I am, however, playing

with a VERY difficult 14th century poetry form called sestina. It doesn't

rhyme. Instead, one chooses six words, and writes six six-line stanzas, with

the six words being the end-words of each line. The words rotate in a set

pattern, so the first stanza will have the words in order ABCDEF, the second

BCDEFA, the third CDEFAB, and so on. Then, there is a two-line envoi at

the end, which must use all six words (though not necessarily in order.) The

meter is iambic pentameter, so that's the easy part; I read a lot of Shakespeare. The form was invented by French poets, and I understand that it is harder in English than in French. Compared to this, sonnets are CAKE.)

Alison MacDermot

*Poet Wannabe*

From: habura at vccsouth19.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)

Date: 22 Nov 91 13:51:49 GMT

Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY

Poetry: Quite a few of you have E-mailed me about the verse form called

sestina. So, believing that Research is Good for the Soul, I found some more

specific information on it.

The verse form was invented in the 12th century, and is credited by Petrarch

to one Arnaud Daniel, a famous troubador (Petrarch calls him "gran maestro

d'amore"). Although there appear to be no period English poems in this style,

it is mentioned by Sidney in 1586. The verse scheme is so: six stanzas of six

lines each, iambic pentameter, with a three-line envoi. There are no rhymes;

rather, the poet selects six words, and ends each line with one of the six,

in the order ABCDEF. The order in the second stanza must be FABCDE, the

third EFABCD, and so on. The envoi must contain all six words, but not

necessarily in order. An out-of-period writer says "The sestina is a

dangerous experiment, on which only poets of the first rank should venture".

(Undaunted, I'm working on one anyway.) Although I was unable to locate

a period sestina, I'm posting one in English, written by Kipling in 1896.

Notice that even he was forced to cheat: he replaces "long" with "along"

in stanza 5.

Sestina of the Tramp Royal

Rudyard Kipling

Speakin' in general, I 'ave tried 'em all--

The 'appy roads that take you o're the world.

Speakin' in general, I 'ave found them good

For such as cannot use one bed too long

But must get 'ence, the same as I 'ave done,

And go observin' matters 'till they die.

What do it matter where or 'ow we die,

So long as we've our 'ealth to watch it all--

The different ways that different things are done,

And men and women lovin' in this world;

Takin' our chances as they come along,

And when they ain't, pretending they are good?

In cash or credit--no, it ain`t no good;

You 'ave to 'ave the 'abit or you'd die,

Unless you lived your life but one day long,

Nor didn't prophecy nor fret at all,

But drew your tucker some'ow from the world,

An' never bothered what you might ha' done.

But, Gawd, what things are they I 'aven't done?

I've turned my 'and to most, an' turned it good,

In various situations round the world--

For 'im that does not work must surely die;

But that's no reason man should labor all

'Is life on one same shift--life's none so long.

Therfore, from job to job I've moved along.

Pay couldn't 'old me when my time was done,

For something in my 'ead upset it all,

Till I 'ad dropped whatever 'twas for good,

An', out at sea, be'eld the dock-lights die,

An' met my mate--the wind that tramps the world!

It's like a book, I think, this bloomin' world,

Which you can read and care for just so long,

But presently you feel that you will die

Unless you get the page you're readin' done,

An' turn another--likely not so good;

But what you're after is to turn 'em all.

Gawd bless this world! Whatever she hath done--

Excep' when awful long--I've found it good.

So write, before I die, "'E liked it all!"

I find this poem more stilted than most of Kipling's work. I suspect this

is due to the unusually rigorous demands of the form. I will say, however,

that the sestina form was much admired in period, and being able to write

in it was considered most impressive.

Alison MacDermot

*Ex Ungue Leonem*

Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 08:10:09 EST

To: sca at mc.lcs.mit.edu

Message-Id: <memo.1498489 at lynx.northeastern.edu>

Subject: Documenting Poetry

Since I read the digest I must presume that the question has already

answered. But, if not, here is my humble answere.

Yes, you can document poetry. And, if you are entering an A&S

competition I suggest that you do so. This is for two reasons.

1) Some people in the SCA are obsessed with documentation.

And, will be much happier if they see that you have done

"serious research."

2) It really is true that those who read your poetry will be

able to appreciate it much better if they have some background

to go by.

As for the other question, I personally would prefer to see a

calligraphed version of the poetry in which the calligraphy

matched the period, ethos and style of the poem. In addition,

I would like to see a typed version of the poem so that I could

read it easily.

Now for what to document. Each culture frequently has more than

one kind of poem. For example the same culture may have epic

poems, sonets, various song forms, etc. all extant at the same

time. Ideally, you should be able to say what it is about your

poetry that identifies it as one of the particular poetic forms

of the culture it is identified with.

Further, taking a poorly remembered example from High School English.

Very early English poetry (supposably) was based upon meter. That is

it did not depend on assonance at all. And, there are still English

poems which are written with a strong sense of meter. Thus, if your

poetry has a meter it should be possible to identify it and to discuss

when that meter is known to have been used in English poetry.

Later, alliteration became popular. And still later, under the

influence of the Norman French, ryhme schemes became popular.

There also are example of acrostics in poetry. The examples that

I am most familiar with are in Hebrew poems.

In short, I suspect that there is much that you can say about your

poetry. I wish you every success at your upcoming arts competition.

Solveig Throndardottir

Poetic debate, round 2

15 Jun 92

From: lawbkwn at buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Organization: The Internet

Unto all who read these words, greetings

from Yaakov.

Most pleased and gratifed have I been

To see the responses to my humble challenge.

Many fine works of poetry seen

Far greater than my meager efforts could manage

(I, alas, on the language wreaked caranage)

But, if it please, for greater fun and not toil

Let us continue anew in round royal

The Lady Illaine quite rightly replied

That we sought to learn crafts, not just possess

For example, wool hand spun and dyed

Gives more pleasure than buying a dress

PErhaps, but what of the terrible mess?

The frustrations that we endure

For keeping our craft so pure

If making were effortless I would agree

That doing, not having, brings us joy

But as I suet o'er my poor poetry

Selecting each word with a critical eye

Hoping my miserable works don't annoy

I wish that a masterpiece I'd spun

With no more effort than playing in the sun

But we who labor under Adam's curse,

And make our goods from the suet of our brow

Know its the bread we would produce

And not the pain of a back bent down

We crave the pleasures and the renown

Of hard won skills. I hope I'm showing

The joys in the having, not in the doing

(As I understand it, rhyme royal is

ABABBCC.

Good Mistress Dorigen, If you should

wish to contribute, and I dearly wish

you should--for surely then we would see

marvelous poetry to make poor poetasters

like myself green with envy--I would

be more than happy to forward to the net

anything you care to mail me.)

(BTW, has anyone been saving these?

It totally slipped my mind, curse me

for the fool I am!)

Yaakov

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: leighann at sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)

Subject: Anglo-Saxon Praise Poem

Organization: Sybase, Inc.

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:01:53 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto from Siobhan!

Yet another in the sequence of "Articles I want to send to TI". Comments

are welcome, especially corrections of my Anglo-Saxon grammar. I'm

reasonably sure of the vocabulary, some of the tenses/cases might be off

kilter. Expansions welcome ditto -- did I leave something out you'd like

to see? Howbout you, Tadhg? I liked your expansion of the rosary

thinking, how would you expand this?

Email, post, whatever suits.

Slainte!

- Siobhan

AN ANGLO-SAXON PRAISE POEM

Context

-------

The context of the Anglo-Saxon praise poem is one of oral tradition;

news, lore, law, and ethics all were passed on by word of mouth. This

passing was usually in poetry rather than prose, for the simple reason

that poetry is easier to remember. The values of the Saxon's tribal

society were transmitted through verse, sometimes explicitly, sometimes

more subtly -- when Beowulf, telling "the folks back home" of his

adventures, says

Next day, when we sat down to banquet, the king of the Danes

rewarded me generously for this encounter [with Grendel], with

treasures and beaten gold. Songs and junketing followed, and

the patriarch Hrothgar, who had a great fund of stories, told

anecdotes about bygone times, and every now and then played a

pleasant melody on the harp. Now and then some true and

unhappy ballad was sung; occasionally the king would recount a

curious legend in its correct form... (2064-2151)

he is implying a whole complex of values: it is good to support your

thanes with treasure and reward valorous acts with material goods; it

is good for there to be songs at feasting; and even, by a little

stretch, it is good for a king to be able to play the harp and do a bit

of poetry of his own.

Mitchell and Robinson (Guide) explain the ethical structure to which

praise poems contributed as follows:

...life was a struggle against insuperable odds, against the

inevitable doom decreed by a meaningless fate -- WYRD, which

originally meant what happens. ... a different kind of

immortality ... is stressed in their literature. This was LOF,

which was won by bravery in battle and consisted of glory among

men, the praise of those still living. (p. 135)

As long as the poets continued to sing your deeds, though your flesh

was dust in the ground, your name lived on. Beowulf itself is an

example of the very thing referred to here within it:

Songs were sung in Hrothgar's presence to the accompaniment of

music. The harp was struck, and many ballads recited. Then,

by way of entertainment, Hrothgar's poet sang in the hall [a

long and vivid song of death and vengeance which I won't

include here]. (1063-1104)

The poet tells of a hero's death, naming him and the members of his

family who avenged him -- prompting the memorization of their names

and delivering yet another message ubiquitous in old Germanic societies

from the mainland to Iceland: it is good to exact revenge on those who

kill your relatives. The little quote above also gives some indication

of the context in which such poems were delivered: in a mead-hall, in

the midst of a feast a very practical time, assuring the largest

possible audience.

Structure

---------

Anglo-Saxon poetry is structured around stresses and alliteration

rather than the syllable-counting that characterized Latin poetry of

the same time. The number of syllables in any given line is less

important than the number of stresses; each line consists of two

half-lines separated by a caesura (pause), and each half-line contains

at least two stresses. One of the two stressed syllables in the first

half-line must alliterate with the first stressed syllable in the

second half-line. It is common, though not compulsory, that the two

stressed syllables in the first half-line also alliterate with each

other, however, only the first stressed syllable in the second

half-line may alliterate with the first half-line. Each half line must

have at least four syllables.

Analysts agree, for the most part, on five types in the half-lines, a

system first proposed by Eduard Sievers in the latter parts of the last

century: [/ is a stressed alliterated syllable, \ is a stressed

unalliterated syllable, - is an unstressed syllable. Unstressed

syllables in parentheses are possible additional syllables. Stressed

syllables in the Anglo-Saxon examples below are underlined, to aid

those unfamiliar with the language.] [note for the ASCII version:

dh is edh, th is thorn, ae is aesc.]

Type A: / - (- - - -) / - called "falling-falling"

A-S Examples:

1st half-line: ricra is rice

-- --

2nd half-line: aedhele and craeftig

---- -----

Mod-E Example: richer the realm is

Type B: (- - - -) - / - / called "rising-rising"

A-S Examples:

1st half-line: he dal ut death

--- -----

2nd half-line: se dracan thegn

---- -----

Mod-E Example: the dragon's thane

(Note: though in this case both these half-lines are on the same line

in the poem and have the same stress type, this is by no means required.)

Type C: (- - - - -) - / / - called "clashing"

A-S Examples:

(no example for the first half-line in this poem; from The Battle of

Maldon(l. 62): Het a bord beran)

---- ---

2nd half-line: and se blaec waelaesc

----- ----

Mod-E Example: in keen conflict

Type D: / (- - -) / \ - called "falling by stages" or "broken fall"

or / (-) / - (-) \

A-S Examples:

1st half-line: riht raed hafadh (or) god is se raed gold

---- ---- --- --- ---- ----

2nd half-line: cuppan nimath in handa

--- --- ----

Mod-E Example: good is the red gold

Type E: / \ - (-) / called "fall and rise"

A-S Examples:

1st half-line: Middrices man

------- ---

2nd half-line: stedefaest his gethanc

---- ---- -------

Mod-E Example: Look ye, how he lives

One or two unaccented syllables may appear before a Type A or Type D

line, and are not counted in the scansion of the line they are rather

like a musical pick-up and are referred to as "anacrucis".

One further note on the ubiquitous HWAET! This word, while having a

normal meaning and usage (what), also appears as a general exclamation,

much as it continues to appear in upper-crust British English ("Jolly

good show, what!")

From these guidelines, and using the glossaries listed in the

bibliography, I composed the following for a recent knighting in the

West Kingdom. I did the Modern English first (since it's my first

language), being careful to use as few words of Latin derivation as

possible -- both because it sounds better in the form, and because I was

lazy and had only Anglo-Saxon-to-English glossaries and wanted to make my

task easier. Aspiring bards, scops and skalds may find it useful to

hunt down the roots of their language, and tune their vocabulary

accordingly. Romance-language words work well in recreated trouvere

metres; the purely Saxon-rooted words ring more true in poems like this:

The Poem

--------

Hwaet! Hierath o ic herge, heordhwerod Westerne,

AElfred awelere, aedhele and craeftig

Middrices man, macode hlisan,

begen handa baeron bana to fahne,

he dal ut death, se dracan thegn.

Bealdum Beowulfe gelic gebletsode wyrdes,

hwa folgian feohtetir to fame teah,

westweardes wendend to gewinnan maerdh

on fene under forstmiste ferde thaet AElfred,

secgrof and sangglaed, striuende cunnian

in cene gecampe his craeft and heortan.

Ellendaedas geearnodon aetheles wordhmynde

THeah sum him forsgon, stod he swa bysene,

heahicgende haeleth, gehealde his grund.

Lociath hu he lifath to landes welan:

ricra is rice for dhaem hringum he gifdh,

scopas songcraeft haniath secende his freogan

god is se raed gold the gegongath fram his handa.

Seo bares byrst and se blaec waelaesc

and wisdarodh wealde the se wundath hyda.

Strang is his sawol, stedefaest his gethanc,

riht raed hafath, radhe he gifdh hit.

Hierath him nu hatte, haerlicost ordsecg,

AElfred ealugyfa, ecgwer and craeftega,

treowig tacnsteorra and triewe hererinc.

Cythth and ceorlas, cuppan nimath in handa

Saeliath him stidhlice, min spell is gedon.

Hear as I hail him, hosts of the West,

Alfred awl-wielder, artful and princely --

man of the Midrealm, made him reknown,

both hands bearing bane to his foes,

he dealt out death, the dragon's thane.

Like bold Beowulf, blessed of fortune,

who to follow fame to the foam took him,

westward wending to win a name

on fen under fog fared that Alfred --

sword-edged and song-glad, striving to prove

in keen conflict his craft and heart.

Able acts earned him honor as a prince --

though some scorned him, he stood as example;

high-minded hero, he held his ground.

Look ye, how he lives to the lands welfare:

richer the realm is for the rings he gives,

scops hone their skills, seeking his favor --

good is the red gold they get from his hand.

The boar's bristle and the black war-ash

and the wise dart he wields, that wounds the hide.

Strong is his spirit, steadfast his purpose,

right rede he has, ready to give it.

Hear him now hight, hero most noble,

Alfred alegiver, armsman and craftman,

trusty token-star and true knight.

Kinsfolk and carls, take cups in hand

skoal him now stoutly, for my speech is done.

May, 1993

Bibliography

------------

Barney, Stephen A., et al. Word-Hoard: An Introduction to Old English

Vocabulary. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1977.

Cable, Thomas. The Meter and Melody of Beowulf. Urbana: University of

Illinois Press, 1974.

Hulbert, James, ed. Bright's Anglo Saxon Reader. NY: Holt, Rinehart &

Winston, 1966 (Orig. author James W. Bright, first published 1917)

Mitchell, Bruce, and Fred C. Robinson. A Guide to Old English, 5th

ed. Oxford: Blackwell Publishers, 1992 [1964].

Wright, David, trans. Beowulf. Baltimore: Penguin Books, 1973 [1957].

From: gary.spechko at t8000.cuc.ab.CA

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: LIMERICKS NOT PERIOD

Date: 15 Sep 1993 02:10:17 -0400

Organization: T-8000 Information System

* Reply to msg originally in rec_org_sca

Ne> Perhaps not limerics per se, but I suspect that there were common

Ne> meters around which vulgar poems were built. In other words, the

Ne> mediaval equivalent of the social phenomenon of the limeric.

Ne> Probably many different meters, one for each town that was so

Ne> inclined.

It depends on the time in period, and on the country. In England, most

period poetry was written in either Latin or Anglo-Saxon ('Old

English'). I will deal with Latin later. Anglo-Saxon poetry did not

rhyme; it was entirely accentual verse (each line was broken in two. The

first part of the line has two hard-stress syllables, which were

alliterative in every case except for the very first line of the poem.

The second part of the line had *at least* one hard-stress syllable

which was alliterative with the hard-stress syllables in the first half

of the line). This was the accepted form until well after the Norman

invasion (Piers Plowman, for example, is written in this style in Middle

English); almost to 1400.

The Normans introduced rhyming poetry to England in 1066. It was, of

course, in French, and so the rhyme came easily and was not as important

as the meter, which tended to be syllabic (each line had the same number

of syllables, or was associated with those other lines which had the

same number of syllables), and to ignore stresses entirely.

Poetry that most modern readers would most easily recognize as such

didn't really occur until Chaucer's time (1375 or so), and wasn't in

truly recognizable English (English which the average first year

university student could understand) for well over another century, with

Sidney and Spenser (b.1552) and Shakespeare. This sort of poetry is

accentual-syllabic, and is the style used in the vast majority of

English language poetry in the world today. (Note: period English

changed very quickly in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, from

being very difficult to to the point where it is very easily

understood).

Poetry elsewhere in Europe followed either the syllabic verse style

(the romance languages), or the accentual verse style (Germanic

languages). Latin was the one exception in western Europe.

Latin poetry tended to be written in quantitative meter verse, as was

Greek and Sanscrit poetry. One counts the long and short syllables per

line, rather than stresses or simple syllables.

I hope this made some sense, and gives a general understanding of period

poetry (and I hope, therefore is suitable for this newsgroup). A far

better explanation than this can be found in Fussell's excellent

_Poetic_Meter_and_Poetic_Form_ (ISBN 0-07-553606-4).

, ,

- Thore de Bethume,

Montengarde

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MKA: Gary Spechko SCA: Thore de Bethume

Internet: gary.spechko at t8000.cuc.ab.ca

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: steveo at nmt.edu (Steven L Anderson)

Subject: Re: Viking booze

Organization: Fugacious Thoughts, Inc.

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 21:36:59 GMT

>>>>> "C" == C Kevin Kellogg <kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu> writes:

In article <45jeqb$kr8 at gondor.sdsu.edu> Avenel Kellough (kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu - C. Kevin Kellogg) writes:

A> The first is that in several places (the Flyting of Loki, and a

A> lay involving Thor asking a Dwarf about lore) there seems to be

A> little distinction between types of beverages. The same cup

A> will be described, sometimes in the same stanza, of being

A> filled with ale, beer, mead, or wine. Is this an actual Old

A> Norse linguistic character (like the blue/black thing), or is

A> it an artifact of translation? Does Old Norse actually have 6

A> different words for mead, but the translator had to use

A> exceedingly different English words because we lack the proper

A> vocabulary?

Greetings Avenel!

In Eddaic poetry, the writer would often use a form called a kenning

for description. It's nearest English equivalent is an analogy. For

instance, a "fence of trees" might be used to mean a shieldwall - the

trees are shields with the fence implying the formation. They used

kennings for many things including rhythm, rhyme, and to show their

wit. Kennings actually rather difficult to do, and doing one well was

considered a sign of talent.

So, the cup filled with ale/beer/mead/wine was most likely the same

thing, a cup of some generic alcoholic beverage. However, the writer

would make a kenning based on that to fit the poem, which might make a

translation a little confusing. Also, a translator would have a very

difficult time using kennings without massively rewriting the poem.

Such a translation would also have to have a huge number of

annotations to explain to the reader the kennings.

I believe the reference to a "brewing kettle" is also a direct

translation of a kenning, but I can only guess on that one. Or it

could be that the writer was using it like I might say "stew pot" -

not implying that stew is the only thing I ever make in that pot.

Two really interesting books on Norse Scaldic and Eddaic poetry can be

found in the following books:

at Book{Turville76,

author={E.O.G. Turville-Petre},

title={Scaldic Poetry},

publisher={Oxford, at the Clarendon Press},

where={London},

year={1976}}

at Book{Frank78,

author={Roberta Frank},

title={Old Norse Court Poetry},

publisher={Cornell University Press},

where={Ithaca, New York},

year={1978}}

Something I am interested in (on a similar subject) are SCA style

kennings. "Field of trees" is still appropriate (even with people

using metal shields), but I'd be interested in hearing others.

-Erik Sanvik

**********************************************************************

* Steven L. Anderson steveo at nmt.edu *

* 208 6th Street steveo at prism.nmt.edu *

* Socorro, NM 87801 (505)835-5144 *

**********************************************************************

From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Viking booze

Date: 18 Oct 1995 05:37:57 GMT

Organization: Best Internet Communications

> Greetings Avenel!

> In Eddaic poetry, the writer would often use a form called a kenning

> for description. It's nearest English equivalent is an analogy.

> -Erik Sanvik

That is true of skaldic poetry, but I didn't think kennings were used in

the Elder Edda--at least, I cannot off hand think of any in the bits I am

familiar with. The skaldic kennings were often based on material in the

Edda, but that does not mean that the Edda contained kennings.

David/Cariadoc (with apologies because it is late and I don't feel like

searching my library to make sure that my memory is right on this)

ddfr at best.com

From: kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (C. Kevin Kellogg)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Viking booze

Date: 18 Oct 1995 14:54:02 GMT

Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services

Steven L Anderson (steveo at nmt.edu) wrote:

: In Eddaic poetry, the writer would often use a form called a kenning

: for description. It's nearest English equivalent is an analogy. For

: instance, a "fence of trees" might be used to mean a shieldwall - the

: trees are shields with the fence implying the formation. They used

: kennings for many things including rhythm, rhyme, and to show their

: wit. Kennings actually rather difficult to do, and doing one well was

: considered a sign of talent.

I am aware of kennings, but I was under the impression that,

while they do occur in Eddaic verse, they were far more common in skaldic

poetry. At least some of the kennings were translated, and at least one

of the lays is noted by the translator for having kennings in a frequency

approaching skaldic verse.

Actually, I like kennings. They're a kind of poetic viking Jeopardy!.

really tests one's knowledge and ability to visualize metaphors.

: So, the cup filled with ale/beer/mead/wine was most likely the same

: thing, a cup of some generic alcoholic beverage. However, the writer

: would make a kenning based on that to fit the poem, which might make a

: translation a little confusing. Also, a translator would have a very

: difficult time using kennings without massively rewriting the poem.

: Such a translation would also have to have a huge number of

: annotations to explain to the reader the kennings.

The addition I have is pretty heavily annotated anyway, Of course,

I'm one of those weird people that finds the footnotes as interesting

as the text.

One lay, in particular, is a didactic poem that sets forth the

names of things in the worlds of the Aesir, Vanir, Men, Alfs, Dwarves, and

Hel's minions. In the stanza about alcohol, the translator uses the

terms ale, beer, mead, draft(I'm not positive on this one), and wine.

These are very different things in my mind.

: I believe the reference to a "brewing kettle" is also a direct

: translation of a kenning, but I can only guess on that one. Or it

: could be that the writer was using it like I might say "stew pot" -

: not implying that stew is the only thing I ever make in that pot.

That would make sense. Just meaning, "a pot big enough to

cook enough wort to make beer sufficient for all these deadbeats in

one batch". I notice that Aegir never seems to get a reciprocal invite

to Valholl. I think the Wanderer can be a bit of a cheapskate.

Thanks for the references, I'll see if the benighted library of

SDSU has them.

Avenel Kellough

Subject: BG - Sonnets

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 13:08:52 MST

From: gemartt at mail.utexas.edu

To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG

I've recently learned that sonnets date back to the early 13th century, and

that the first person known to have published sonnets, is a Sicilian named

Giacomo da Lentini. Within a hundred years, it would become a very popular

form of Italian poetry. Dante (1265-1321) wrote sonnets, but it is

Petrarch (1304-1374) who is considered the master of this early form of

poetry.

Eventually Petrarch's poetry would be introduced in Spain by the Marquis de

Santillana, into France by Clement Marot, and translated into English by

Sir Thomas Wyatt (1503-1542) and Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey (1517-1547).

Surrey's translations did not follow the traditional Petrarchian rhyme

scheme, and were the basis for original English sonnets, which became very

popular in the court.

Thomas of Tenby

Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:54:28 MST

From: "Caley Woulfe" <cwoulfe at life.edu>

Subject: ANST - Fw: [TY] more poems

To: "Ansteorran List" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

-----Original Message-----

From: Jean Corbin <JCorbin at celticcat.com>

To: TY at reashelm.ce.utk.edu <TY at reashelm.ce.utk.edu>

Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:50 PM

Subject: [TY] more poems

>From: THLady Amarath Jean yr Raven (1/2 Welsh, 1/2 Irish)

> who loves good poetry and songs,

>In my library, I have a trio of books that Ye might find of intrest,

>acquired only this year through that honorable establishment of Barnes and

>Noble.

>1.. "A History of Wales" (Davies, John)

> IBNS # 0-713-99098-8..