instruments-msg - 3/18/08 Period musical instruments. NOTE: See also the files: bagpipes-msg, drums-msg, guitar-art, harps-msg, lyres-msg, recorders-msg, trumpets-msg, trumpet-build-art, p-songs-msg, song-sources-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: billmc at microsoft.UUCP (MCJOHN) Date: 2 Feb 90 22:10:12 GMT Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Subject: Re: Spanish gypsies and Flamenco ag1v+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Esmeralda La Sabia [Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz]) writes: > Does anyone know when castinets were invented? > Or when the guitar came to Spain? Although the guitar did not attain its present form until the seventeenth century (well into the baroque), it has antecedents going back to the twelfth or thirteenth century (at least). Like the lute, the guitar (or its ancestors) probably came to Spain with the Moors. To get an idea of what a thirteenth century guitar may have looked like, you might consult one of the manuscripts of the _Cantigas de Santa Maria_ collected by Alfonso X (who was, interestingly, also known as [spelling very approximate] Alfonso el Sabia). The Cantigas are a thirteenth century collection of 400 songs (in Gallician-Portuguese) in praise of the Virgin Mary; before every tenth cantiga is a picture of instrumentalists. These illustrations provide a fascinating window on the wide variety of instruments used in Spain at that time--including plucked stringboard instruments with bodies of various shapes. One of the manuscripts is available in facsimile and transcription, prepared by Higini Angles--I can look up the bibliographical information if you're interested. Bill McJohn From: pro-angmar!slarkin at alphalpha.com (Eliane Esperance) Date: 26 Dec 90 13:47:07 GMT Unto the gentles who were discussing portatif organs, greetings! I have personally never considered these instruments "appropriate" for the SCA. They are inarguable period, but unless you can find one with wooden pipes (also period, but not as pretty) they are a) heavy b) expensive c) easily broken. If I owned one, I would not bring it near an SCA event because I would be afraid to move it, for fear of damaging the pipes. They are soft lead, and dent if you *look* at them too hard. They are hard to tune, and keep in tune for this reason. Unless you are quite rich, bringing an instument like this to an SCA event is courting disaster. From: trifid at agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks) Date: 4 Sep 91 09:46:10 GMT Organization: Open Communications Forum Since Mary Queen of Scots was definitely period, and since a museum has in its collection the guitar of her lover Riccio (and it looks very much like any guitar to me, in the photo...) it seems that the guitar must be a period instrument. ("Mary Queen of Scots" by Antonia Fraser, pg.256, plate 18. Says it is in the Royal College of Music, London) Riccio died in 1566, I believe.... Now, whether the guitar was *tuned* the same as now, I don't know. A question for our scholars of early music... NicMaoilan trifid at agora.rain.com From: shick at europa.asd.contel.COM (Steve Hick) Date: 3 Sep 91 15:45:15 GMT Morgan Wolfsinger asks in <1F23845E47FF83E7AC at Gems.VCU.EDU> asks: *> The Question: Is the guitar a period instrument? *> I have found one source that says that it is (10-string Spanish and 8-string *> Italian versions were used pre-1650). Problem: I need more sources! *> Please, if anyone has any suggestions as to where to look for more data, I *> would love to have them. I am using my favorite source to look create a bibliography for her to ILL, but I sometimes have probelms going over to bitnet, so in answer to her question, I offer a citation I found: 33. DISSERTATION Marcus, Robert S. The use of the five-course guitar as a continuo instrument as described in Spanish treatises: 1596-1764 / by Robert S. Marcus. 1978. Seems period. Strykar From:Ioseph Re: Guitar research Date: 8 Sep 91 10:36:28 RR>From: trifid at agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks) RR> RR>Since Mary Queen of Scots was definitely period, and since a RR>museum has in RR>its collection the guitar of her lover Riccio (and it looks very RR>much like RR>any guitar to me, in the photo...) it seems that the guitar must RR>be a period RR>instrument. RR>("Mary Queen of Scots" by Antonia Fraser, pg.256, plate 18. Says RR>it is in RR>the Royal College of Music, London) Ah....sort of! See my upcoming article in TI....what you have there (I have the book) is a "five-course guitar," i.e. five -pairs- of gut strings, tuned in any number of ways.....the modern "classical" guitar, six single nylon or gut strings is WAY out of period, being developed by Torres in about 1844 CE, while the American "steel-string" is later yet. This is a -very- complex question, but, like I said, see the upcoming TI article. -Ioseph of Locksley still grumpy From: DAVID at bmeucl.medcor.mcgill.ca Date: 6 Sep 91 19:17:00 GMT Unto the gentles gathering at the railto does Dafydd y Peireannydd send his greetings. The question of Guitar and Lute tunings surfaced a few digests ago. The lute tuning description "tune the highest string until it almost breaks" comes from Thomas Robinson's "A Schoole of Musicke", 1603, which was the first published lute tutor. My experience with gut strings, leads me to believe that this is in fact very close to what we now call the "Renaissance G" tuning. (GCFADG) for the six highest pitched courses, lowest to highest. (My experience has been that a gut top course will sometimes break when tuned up to a G, -- sometimes before). This tuning is 3 frets higher than the modern 6-string Guitar (EADGBE), except that the 3rd string is a semitone flater on the lute than on the Guitar. The Spanish Vilhuella, which seems to be an ancestor to the Guitar, was tuned in Lute tuning, so some close variant on modern Guitar tuning should be okay. What nobody has mentioned thus far, is technique. While the Guitar is, it seems documentable back to at least the end of the 16'th century, how was it played? I have seen Baroque Guitarists play, and they use a right hand technique much like your average lutenist. The strings are plucked with the pads of the fingers. The fingers stay almost parallel to the strings, which forces the thumb in behind the rest of the fingers. This is quite a bit different from the modern classical Guitar "thumb over" posture. While the Guitar is period, bashing out chords with a flat pick is almost certainly not. Granted, very early lutenists used a quill, or pick, but only to pluck single melody lines. When lute parts started including multiple lines -- effectively chords -- the technique switched to using the fingers. I've rambled on long enough Lord Dafydd y Peireannydd Shire l'Isle du Dragon Dormant Kingdom of the East From: Ioseph Re: Guitar Research Date: 10 Sep 91 13:16:08 D>From: DAVID at bmeucl.medcor.mcgill.ca D>tuned up to a G, -- sometimes before). This tuning is 3 frets D>higher than D>the modern 6-string Guitar (EADGBE), except that the 3rd string D>is D>a semitone flater on the lute than on the Guitar. There is also evidence that the Lute was tuned to a similar pattern as the guitar (but 3 frets higher, or so, of course) and this was called "new" tuning. I have -several- lute tunings.....once again, see the upcoming article in TI, which will list -all- tunings for all the guitar/mandolin/lute type insttruments (that I found, at least...) D>What nobody has mentioned thus far, is technique. While the D>Guitar is, it seems D>documentable back to at least the end of the 16'th century, how D>was it played? D>I have seen Baroque Guitarists play, and they use a right hand D>technique much D>like your average lutenist. The strings are plucked with the D>pads of the D>fingers. The fingers stay almost parallel to the strings, which D>forces the D>thumb in behind the rest of the fingers. This is quite a bit D>different from D>the modern classical Guitar "thumb over" posture. D> D>While the Guitar is period, bashing out chords with a flat pick D>is almost D>certainly not. Granted, very early lutenists used a quill, or D>pick, but D>only to pluck single melody lines. When lute parts started including D>multiple D>lines -- effectively chords -- the technique switched to using D>the fingers. Once again....what -we- call a guitar is -not- period....technique seems to have been either lute-style thumb-under, or plectral monody, OR a combination of plectral monody and arpeggio (a stroke down across the strings with the flatpick.) Note that this was NOT a syncopated strum as is heard in modern "folk" styles, but a straight downwards move with the pick. -Ioseph of Locksley Who (grumpily) plays these damn things From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) Date: 22 Oct 91 03:47:28 GMT Organization: University of Chicago Everyone knows that the violin is an out of period instrument (this one was contributed by Elizabeth). In fact it is late period; the period violins differ in detail from modern ones, but are essentially the same instrument with the same tuning. Cariadoc From: zbang at access.digex.com (Carl P. Zwanzig) Date: 26 Nov 91 03:34:57 GMT Organization: No, just look at the garage. In article <91Nov10.114916ast.9794 at cs.dal.ca> thompson at cs.dal.ca writes: > Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Deormod send > greetings, I have a request for information from a friend who is > interested in building a Portative Organ, if you have any > information for me to pass on to my friend please mail it to me as > I donot get much of a chance to read the Rialto as of late. > >============================================================================= > > I am looking for information on Portative Organs. I wish to > build one and am having problems finding primary documentation. I > have already consulted Theopholous (sp?) and Anon. of Berne as > well as several texts on the construction of church organs of the > period, but I have found no references to actual surviving > specimens of Portatives. > THE books to have for organ building are the two volume set _The_Art_of_ Organ_Building_ by George Ashdown Audsley (Dover, of course, ISBN 0-486-21314-5). Volume I is tonal information and design, volume II is about the actual construction, including 8 pages just about types of wood. Volume I is 600 pages, Volume II is over 700. The books were originaly published in 1905, and have some of the best technical drawings that I've ever seen. When I purchased them the cover price was US$25 for the set. Corwyn O'Domhnaill - Somewhere in Atlantia Carl Zwanzig - Bowie, Maryland, USA zbang at digex.com - the end of a wire Early Guitars Date: 26 May 92 From: DAVID at bmeucl.medcor.mcgill.ca Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Unto those that pause to exchange greetings beneath this bridge, greetings. A few days ago, a gentle mused about the possible common ancestry of viols and guitars. _Instruments of the Middle Ages and Renaissance_, David Monrow writes "The Spanish word *vihuela*, like the Italian *viola*, was a generic term for all stringed instruments, whether plucked or bowed, and the different types were distinguished by various qualifications, thus: *vihuela de arco* for the bowed types *viheula de pen~ola* (or *de pendola) for the plectrum plucked types *vihuela de mano* for the finger plucked types" (*emphasis* == italics) This certainly suggests that there may have been a common ancestor for the bowed and plucked strings. David Munrow goes on to say that Spanish called the Lute "vihuela de Flandes". (is that like French leave?). As for the use of guitars in period, well, that all depends on how you look at things. The renaissance guitar was a much smaller, lighter instrument than either the modern classical or folk guitar. It was strung with either 4 or 5 courses of double strings made of lambs gut. The bass course was usually an octave pair, unless the bass note was dropped altogether, creating a re-entrant tuning -- like a modern ukelele (my dog has fleas). (All of this from David Munrow, as well as a little personal experience playing one once many moons ago). Timothy McGee in _Medieval and Renaissance Music; a performers guide_ suggests two modern alternates to the renaissance guitar/vihuela: a classical guitar with gut strings and a fairly dry tone, or a baritone ukelele with gut strings. In terms of typically applied SCA standards for documentation, this is ample documentation for the use of modern guitars (even Fender Stratocasters for that matter) at events. On the other hand, if we want to try doing a little better, perhaps we should at least try to restring our guitars with gut strings, and play period (or period inspired) music using period techniques. Dafydd y Peireannydd who enjoys tuning his lute, and sometimes playing it, even though it is out of tune. Subject: Period instruments.... Date: 16 Jun 92 From: fiddler at concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca. Beth.Appleton at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes: > (this looked like a convenient place to insert this comment...) >If you're willing to spend non-trivial quantities of money, there is > (was?) a company called "Lark in the Morning" who sell period > instruments. I'll go check and see if I still have my old catalog. > (They don't keep sending them out if you don't order...) I don't > remember much about prices in general -- they also have "compromise" > instruments. > For instance, I was considering buying a cornetto. I was going to > get the plastic version, rather than the accurate one, because it was > only (!) $70-80 -- which is fairly cheap for a musical instrument, just > not for my then pocket-book (and forget the whole subject now!) > As I remember, they were based somewhere in California, and they > had a whole 50-some page catalog with lots and lots of unusual > instruments...... Lark in the Morning P.O. Box 1176 Mendocino, CA 95460 (707) 964-5569 I get into more trouble every time I see another flyer or new catalog... From: Syr Jonathon Macnaughton To: Dana S Emery Re: Lute/ Cittern kits Date: 10 Jun 92 DS> The Early Music shop of England markets kits for building various DS> period instruments: SATB Crumhorns, Hurgy gurdy, 6c Lute, Bowed DS> Psaltery, 2 rank positve organ, and others. They also have a DS> subsidiary shop which stocks properly seasoned rough carved necks, DS> sides, tops, and pegs for those brave enough to essay the DS> construction of Violas da Gamba, Violins, and Lutes. They also stock DS> specialty tools for luthiers (lute peg reamers, viola da gamba side DS> clamps, soundboard thickness calipers...). DS> The EMS Crumhorn kits are commonly stocked over here, the Early DS> Music shop of New England (Brookline MA) stocks them, as does Lark DS> In the morning. Good gentle, would you be so kind as to post mailing addresses (and phone numbers if available)? I am interested in constructing several period stringed instruments, but have an unfortunate shortage of sources for plans and supplies. Many thanks in advance. Syr Jon From: Joe Bethancourt To: Sharon Stanfill Re: lute vs guitar Date: 12 Jun 92 -=> Sharon Stanfill said to All on 06-08-92 18:17 <=- SS> From: sharons at juliet.ll.mit.EDU (Sharon Stanfill) SS> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca SS> Organization: The Internet SS> Moreach suggests restringing guitars with gut strings. I would not SS> advise doing this without doing a bit of research first. I don't know SS> about lutes/guitars, but there are sigificant differences between SS> nylon/metal/gut strung harps in terms of design - the different SS> types of strings produce different stresses and require different SS> levels of tension which strongly affects the construction of the harp. SS> I suspect the same will be true of guitars. Quite true, but not as essential here, unless you are putting gut on an X-braced (steel string) guitar. Then the tension (light) of the gut will not be enough to adequately stress the soundboard, and you will get a "dead" sounding instrument. Of course, putting gut on a fan-braced ("classical") guitar will not alter the sound at all, but you will be sorry next humid weather, when the strings fray and break....and gut guitar strings are costly indeed. I use gut on my arch-lute, but -that one- is in a climate-controlled case and -never- goes out on rainy days. Stick to nylon. It's the same sound, less expensive, and lasts longer. And putting steel strings on a "classical" will get you kindling in short order. The same would apply to harps. My Witchers use brass strings, and have VERY heavy soundboards (typical of Celtic harps) while my Lyon & Healy uses nylon and has a thin soundboard....to exchange strings on them would give a dead sound on the Witchers, and kindling on the Lyon & Healy. Period & Unusual Instraments Date: 16 Jun 92 From: chowland at apple.COM Newsgroups: rec.org.sca [SOQ] fiddler at concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) Lark in the Morning P.O. Box 1176 Mendocino, CA 95460 (707) 964-5569 I get into more trouble every time I see another flyer or new catalog... [EOQ] To anyone wanting a catalog, mail them a check for $3 first, save your self some time. They're not mailing them for free any more, just got off the phone with 'um. Christofer de Hoyland -- chowland at apple.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: sbloch at silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch) Subject: Re: making musical instruments Organization: Computer Science, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 06:09:24 GMT winifred at trillium.soe.umich.EDU (Lee Katman) writes: >I have heard of the fabled "Einar Lutemaker" but no one who has >actually met him or knows how to contact him. Master Einar Lutemaker is known mundanely as Al Kuhfeld (sp?), and lives in the Nordskogen/Twin Cities, MN area. He is a sweet gentleman with a wealth of knowledge about medieval science and technology (a museum curator, I believe, mundanely). A lutenist friend of mine did ask him, however, if he truly made lutes, and his answer was something to the effect of "No, but I thought it sounded better than Einar Dulcimermaker." He has made dulcimers and scheitholts, and experimented with period brass instruments, but not, to the best of my knowledge, lutes. Still, you might want to look up Einar in the Twin Cities phone book and see what advice he can offer. There is a harpmaker (SCA name Rathwin) in Mynydd Seren (Bloomington, IN) who is making forays into rebec-making, but doesn't do lutes. Master Reginald in Grey Gargoyles has had experience making instruments, carving instrument rosettes, and the like, but does not build lutes. But if you're moving to the Chicago area, Reginald (or his wife, Johanna, the aforementioned lutenist) can almost certainly put you in touch with mundane luthiers. Of course, there's always the London Early Music Shop lute kit, but by all reports it's horrendously difficult.... Good luck, and hope to see you in Known World Choir this year. Rufina Cambrensis/D.Peters, c/o sbloch -- Stephen Bloch sbloch at cs.umanitoba.ca Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: sbloch at silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch) Subject: Re: The Lute ? Organization: Computer Science, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 22:28:28 GMT In article <1993Mar10.153106.19457 at sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> david at bmeucl.medcor.mcgill.ca () writes: >|> Is any "Period" music/songs available for such string instruments? > >Between 1550 and 1650 in England, more lute music was written than madrigals and >virginal music combined! Much of this 'late period' music has survived. BTW, >the first music ever published (Petruci, 1509) was lute tablature. N.B.: Pre-sixteenth century, the lute was used to play melodic lines rather than chordal accompaniments or fantasias. So, if you have an earlier persona and want to explore appropriate music, or just want to see what lute players did before Dowland or Campion, have at. Plausible areas for medieval lutes: playing a line in a polyphonic piece from the fourteenth or fifteenth century (Machaut, Landini, Dufay, etc.); playing basse danse tenors, or improvising a discantus over the tenor; playing fourteenth or fifteenth century instrumental music (mostly keyboard arrangements of vocal pieces). FYI: a line is suitable for lute if it has a lot of movement; lines with a lot of sustained notes (breves, whole notes) work better on bowed strings. As far as earlier centuries are concerned, things get a bit sticky. The lute was yet another innovation nicked from the Saracens by the Crusaders, so one could argue in favor of its use in music from the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. There is, however, little proof for this (but no need to open yet another paleomusicological Can O' Worms). The troubadours, trouveres, and minnesanger repertoires, as well as the Carmina Burana and Cantigas de Santa Maria, provide hundreds of appealing melodies that sound lovely on a plectrum lute, never mind what the musicologists might think.... This is probably more than you ever wanted to know about the Role of the Lute in the Medieval Period, and it's likely that much could be lost in transmission (blame my discursive style for that), but if you're interested in medieval lute music, the music librarian at your local college or university, or the New Grove Encyclopedia of Music and Musicians at your local public library, can give you more answers. Rufina Cambrensis/D.Peters, c/o sbloch, who adds: BTW, if you're curious about this stuff and want an online source of information, check out the newsgroup "rec.music.early", which I think is the same thing as the mailing list "EARLYM-LIST" for people without Un*x access. -- Stephen Bloch sbloch at cs.umanitoba.ca Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mongoose at yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston) Subject: Re: The Lute ? Organization: Monash University General Access Unix Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 06:58:54 GMT Stephen Bloch (sbloch at silver.cs.umanitoba.ca) wrote: : <a whole lot of interesting (and accurate) stuff about the lute> One thing that he neglected to mention though was that the actual lute itself in early period was unlike the late sixteenth century lute that we tend to think of now. Apparently early on (after it was imported to Europe) it closely resembled a Turkish ud {no, that wasn't a typo}. If anyone is thinking of purchasing a lute they will find that an ud is far cheaper (if they can find one) and more accurate for early period music. I am sorry I can't be more accurate on this subject, but if anyone has any questions, they can take their chances and mail me (I won't mind, it's just that I may not be very helpful). Also, is there any sort of lute music floating around on ftp sites. Any period music for a recorder consort would also be gratefully received. Cormac Lenihan. -- Conrad Leviston | Got to find a brightness in the soul, mongoose at yoyo. | Not look outside to find out where we are, cc.monash.edu.au | Otherwise you won't be satisfied, Save the gherkin | 'Til you've made possession of the stars. (K.Wallinger) From: corun at access.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Irish Fiddle? Date: 15 Aug 1993 21:29:09 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA MFORD at lando.hns.COM writes: > Greetings unto those who are loitering on the bridge this fine afternoon, > > Are there any of you who know about the Irish Fiddle? Is it a period > insturment? What kind of documentation or references could you suggest? > I am posting this to a friend who is interrested in the SCA and plays. > Many thanx my friends. I remain in service to the Society, > > Lord Sean Michael MacKay > Barony of Storvik > Kingdom of Atlantia As an Irish musician/singer (no, not fiddle) I can say that most of the tunes played are not period. They come from the 17th - 20th century according to most documentation that I've seen. I don't believe the "fiddle" per se, is traditional to Ireland much before the late 17th century, but I'd have to check on it. Even O'Carolan (1670 to 1738) is a Baroque period composer. I know with certainty that the Uilleann pipes are nearly 200 years oop. Still, there are many folks who play traditional Irish (and Scottish and English) music that is oop for the SCA at many events, and, in my experience, most folk don't seem to mind too much. I have yet to hear anyone with a hammered dulcimer at an SCA event playing Middle Eastern music on it for example. Sorry if this sounds discouraging. I encourage your friend to perhaps take up the viola and learn some early music style. But by all means, tell your friend to keep playing Irish anyway. In service, Corun ============================================================================== Corun MacAnndra | Unlike some other Robin Hoods, I speak with an Dark Horde by birth | English accent. -- Cary Elwes Moritu by choice | Robin Hood: Men in Tights From: jcaldwll at oregon.uoregon.edu (Jim Caldwell) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 19 Oct 1993 22:53:49 GMT Organization: UOregon eric-smith at ksc.nasa.gov (Eric C. Smith) wrote: > In the book, _A Description of Wales_, by Gerald of Wales, he mentions > three instruments used by the Welsh. One of these instruments was the > harp, but there was another which the footnotes described as a stringed > instrument. I do not recall what the instrument was called, and do not > have my reference handy. I will bring the book in tomarrow and will likely > Diolch > > Maredudd Perhaps the instrument you're thinking of is the *crwth* (this _is_ the correct spelling - it's welsh after all). It looks similar to a square-body harp with maybe six or eight strings. The drawing I have is a line drawing, and it looks like there might be a fingerboard under the strings, but I'm not sure that would be correct unless it was a later addition. The article (in _The Harvard Brief Dictionary of Music_ Apel & Daniels, 1971 printing) mentions its use as late as 1820, so maybe that's where it is an addition. Someone with a better music dictionary might be able to help more. Jehan *Jim Caldwell *jcaldwll at oregon.uoregon.edu From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 20 Oct 93 19:42:55 GMT Organization: RAND jcaldwll at oregon.uoregon.edu (Jim Caldwell) wrote: > > In article <eric-smith-191093151959 at 128.159.169.79>, > eric-smith at ksc.nasa.gov (Eric C. Smith) wrote: > > In the book, _A Description of Wales_, by Gerald of Wales, he mentions > > three instruments used by the Welsh. One of these instruments was the > > harp, but there was another which the footnotes described as a stringed > > instrument. I do not recall what the instrument was called, and do not > > have my reference handy. I will bring the book in tomarrow and will likely > > > Diolch > > > > Maredudd and Jehan responded > Perhaps the instrument you're thinking of is the *crwth* (this _is_ the > correct spelling - it's welsh after all). It looks similar to a > square-body harp with maybe six or eight strings. The drawing I have is a > line drawing, and it looks like there might be a fingerboard under the > strings, but I'm not sure that would be correct unless it was a later > addition. The article (in _The Harvard Brief Dictionary of Music_ Apel & > Daniels, 1971 printing) mentions its use as late as 1820, so maybe that's > where it is an addition. Someone with a better music dictionary might be > able to help more. What an opening. As I have secretly communicated to Bertram, I ampresently making a French folk instrument called an epinette (accent aigue on that firste, mes amis). The person I'm learning this from asserts that theinstrumenthas a medieval origin at least, and variants appear all over the world. Hesays that he has seen carvings of epinettes in the hands of angels onmedievalcathedrals in France (he is French, by the by). This particular instrumentdoes have a fingerboard (it really needs one). Mine will have metal frets,but Philippe says that the earliest instruments originals used gut wound around the fingerboard to make the frets. This instrument is related to the hurdy-gurdy (probably a predecessor). Like the hurdy-gurdy, it has drone strings (in my case, two) and melody strings (in my case, one). You strum or pluck all three strings while sliding your finger along the fret board to play the tune. Philippa d'Ecosse (who would promise much for documentation of all this) From: Dan Butler-Ehle <dwbutler at mtu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 22 Oct 1993 19:43:10 GMT Organization: CCLI, Michigan Tech University In article <Phyllis_Gilmore-201093123358 at 130.154.16.99> Phyllis Gilmore, Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org writes (about epinettes): >This instrument is related to the hurdy-gurdy (probably a predecessor). Like >the hurdy-gurdy, it has drone strings (in my case, two) and melody strings >(in my case, one). You strum or pluck all three strings while sliding >your finger along the fret board to play the tune. I don't believe it is related to the hurdy-gurdy. Hurdy-gurdies arechorded instruments that have common ancestors with the violin (I believe). The"epinette", however, is a type of box zither, almost identical to theGerman"scheitholt", the modern Appalacian "mountain (lap) dulcimer", and acouple ofScandanavian instruments whose names I can't remember (it's "lang-" some-thing-or-other). I'm not certain that they're in period, but it's anobvious-enough instrument that it's probably very old and works well with thenearly-medieval dance music we play in the SCA. I noticed in the Elderly Instruments catalog a book of period(?) musicfor the renaissance dulcimer (not to be confused with a hammered dulcimer). Ifit's what I think it is, it would make your epinette very happy.Ulfin <dwbutler at mtu.edu> From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 23 Oct 93 00:31:02 GMT Organization: RAND In article <2a9d4e$a63 at mtu.edu>, dwbutler at mtu.edu (Dan Butler-Ehle) wrote: > > In article <Phyllis_Gilmore-201093123358 at 130.154.16.99> Phyllis Gilmore, > Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org writes (about epinettes): > >This instrument is related to the hurdy-gurdy (probably a predecessor). > >Like > >the hurdy-gurdy, it has drone strings (in my case, two) and melody > strings > >(in my case, one). You strum or pluck all three strings while sliding > >your finger along the fret board to play the tune. > > I don't believe it is related to the hurdy-gurdy. Hurdy-gurdies are > chorded > instruments that have common ancestors with the violin (I believe). The > "epinette", however, is a type of box zither . . . > I noticed in the Elderly Instruments catalog a book of period(?) music > for the > renaissance dulcimer (not to be confused with a hammered dulcimer). If > it's > what I think it is, it would make your epinette very happy. > > Ulfin <dwbutler at mtu.edu> The epinette is related to the hurdy-gurdy in the same way the hurdy-gurdy is related to the bagpipes: drones, but strings rather than pipes. In this respect, it is not played the same way as a dulcimer, either (especially not a hammered dulcimer). The epinette can look like a dulcimer, but some of the ones I've seen make you think more of lutes. The hurdy-gurdy doesn't precisely play chords either, not the ones I've seen (autoharps, on the other hand, do). Its keys serve the same purpose as your fingers on a fretboard. What gives the impression of chords is the drones, which play constantly. The epinette is a much simpler instrument, but has the same principle--although you can play chords if you like (MY fingers don't want to bend that way, though). All stinged instruments have common ancestors. The hurdy-gurdy uses a rosined wheel to make the strings vibrate; the viol family uses bows for the same purpose. There are any number of ways to make strings stretched across a wooden box vibrate (bows, wheels, feathers, fingers, hammers, even sympathetic vibrations). You can also bow an epinette, but the bridge on the epinette has to be shaped like that of a violin. Elderly Instruments catalog? Where? How much? Please? Philippa From: Dan Butler-Ehle <dwbutler at mtu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 24 Oct 1993 21:00:23 GMT Organization: CCLI, Michigan Tech University In article <Phyllis_Gilmore-221093171904 at 130.154.16.99> Phyllis Gilmore, Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org writes: >The epinette is related to the hurdy-gurdy in the same way the hurdy-gurdy >is related to the bagpipes: drones, but strings rather than pipes. In >this respect, it is not played the same way as a dulcimer, either >(especially not a hammered dulcimer). The epinette can look like a >dulcimer, but some of the >ones I've seen make you think more of lutes. Dulcimers generally have three (or four if the melody string is doubled)strings. There is a melody string that you stop with the left hand onthefretboard. The other two strings are drones, usually with one tuned to the same note as the melody string and the other tuned to some harmonicbelow that. The fingerboard is usually fretted diatonically (i.e. thereisnot a fret at every even half-step). Some people stop all the strings tomake chords, but this method of playing is uncommon. Some dulcimervariants have necks and are played from behind like a guitar. These ofcourse, have the order of the strings reversed so that you can reach themelody string without hitting the drones. The Turkish "baglama" is suchan instrument. It looks like a bouzouki (sp?) and has tied-on frets ofgutor wire. Although it is probably descended from the lute, it ismusically more like a dulcimer. BTW, there is no relationship between lap dulcimers and hammered dulcimers other than they are both boxes with strings. They have no common ancestor that was known as a "dulcimer". The identical names is just an unfortunate coincidence or mistake. >There are any number of ways to make strings stretched >across a wooden box vibrate (bows, wheels, feathers, fingers, hammers, >even sympathetic vibrations). And plectra, don't forget plectra. >You can also bow an epinette, but the >bridge on the epinette has to be shaped like that of a violin. Not really. You want it flat because you need to bow all three strings at the same time, otherwise it's not really the same instrument (like the difference between bowing a bass violin and plucking the double bass--same instrument physically, but musically they're in different classes). Strings on a violin are arranged in an arc so that you can play them individually. >Elderly Instruments catalog? Where? How much? Please? Don't have the information on hand. Can anyone help out? Also of interest may be the catalog from Lark in the Morning. Again, I haven't the information with me. --Ulfin <dwbutler at mtu.edu> From: moochie at camelot.bradley.edu (Melissa Koontz) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 25 Oct 1993 08:26:26 -0500 Organization: Bradley University In <2aeqd7$6ij at mtu.edu> Dan Butler-Ehle <dwbutler at mtu.edu> writes: >In article <Phyllis_Gilmore-221093171904 at 130.154.16.99> Phyllis Gilmore, >Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org writes: >Dulcimers generally have three (or four if the melody string is doubled) >strings. There is a melody string that you stop with the left hand on >the >fretboard. The other two strings are drones, usually with one tuned to >the same note as the melody string and the other tuned to some harmonic >below that. The fingerboard is usually fretted diatonically (i.e. there >is >not a fret at every even half-step). Some people stop all the strings to >BTW, there is no relationship between lap dulcimers and hammered >dulcimers other than they are both boxes with strings. They have >no common ancestor that was known as a "dulcimer". The identical >names is just an unfortunate coincidence or mistake. Good Gentles, if I might add the sum of my paltry knowledge about lap dulcimers. The lap dulcimer is descended from two European folk instruments. The first and most commonly known is the Scandinavian Hummle that can have between 4-24 strings. The other is the german Schietholt this instrument has between 4-8 strings most commonly and has similar shapes to the Applachian lap dulcimers that are found in America. I myself have a five string lap dulcimer my melody string is doubled and I have a harmony string doubling my drone string. This harmony string is tuned an octave higher and to the same note as my drone string. My dulcimer is tuned and fretted modally. It however does have a 6 1/2 fret which alows me a slightly greater range then similar period instruments. My dulcimer is tuned in this pattern for the mixolydian my strings are tuned as following DD A DD the first two are melody the third is harmony, the fourth is drone, and the last string is the octave harmony. For the Aeolian mode my dulcimer would be tuned as follows CC A D. Most of this information is courtesy of experience and the teaching of the Gentles at the Mountain Music Store in Brown County IN. The history is taken from a reference entitled The History of Stringed instruments. This reference is an excellent resource. I hope Good Gentles this information may be of help to you. Adelind von Rosenberg moochie at camelot.bradley.edu Adelind von Rosenberg Melissa Koontz House of the Moss Rose, Barony of Illiton, Midrealm From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 25 Oct 93 20:09:27 GMT Organization: RAND In article <2aeqd7$6ij at mtu.edu>, dwbutler at mtu.edu (Dan Butler-Ehle) wrote: > > In article <Phyllis_Gilmore-221093171904 at 130.154.16.99> Phyllis Gilmore, > Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org writes: > Dulcimers generally have three (or four if the melody string is doubled) > strings. There is a melody string that you stop with the left hand on > the > fretboard. The other two strings are drones, usually with one tuned to > the same note as the melody string and the other tuned to some harmonic > below that. Sigh. I think I was mentally stuck on hammered dulcimers and psalteries. Sorry. By the by, the alternative tunings Adeline mentions in another post are awfully familiar. My instructor has brought in several related instruments, one from as far away as the Philippines, that work on the same general principle (melody plus drones), with the same system of frets. The basic design is fairly simple, but people do put a lot of variation into the actual instruments. > And plectra, don't forget plectra. Yes--and plain old guitar picks. Philippe (the teacher) uses a piece of plastic from a food storage container, because it's flexible. > >You can also bow an epinette, but the bridge on the epinette has to > >be shaped like that of a violin. > > Not really. You want it flat because you need to bow all three strings > at the same time, otherwise it's not really the same instrument (like the > difference between bowing a bass violin and plucking the double bass--same > instrument physically, but musically they're in different classes). > Strings on a violin are arranged in an arc so that you can play them > individually. The key word there is "can" play strings separately. And don't confuse "classes of instruments" with playing technique. You'll find double basses plucked as well as bowed in a symphony orchestra. I pluck and bow my violin, and play two or more strings at one time--sometimes even when the music says to do so :-). It's harder to three strings at once (you quickly get one going, then let it ring while you play the other two), but that's a function of the curvature of the bridge. I call that beautiful instrument of mine a fiddle when I play traditional Scottish music (badly), and a violin when I play Bach (very slowly). (A rose by any other name . . . .) The epinette has only three strings, and you might want to bow all of them at once, but that would be dull in the long run. You can get up some pretty exciting stuff by variation (as you would, say, plucking a guitar). You could do that with different bowing combinations, I suspect. Philippa d'Ecosse Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: sj6070f90 at auvax1.adelphi.edu Subject: Re: Period Instruments Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City, NY Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 05:18:04 GMT Elderly Instruments is located in Ann Arbor, MI. If you write them they will send you a catalogue. The request would probably get there without a street address and they probably wouldn't charge for the cat. either. I have dealt with them in the past and they are good people. However, I also sell musical instruments, so maybe I could help you out. E-mail your wants and I'll see what I can do. My address is: SJ6070F90 at auvax1.adelphi.edu. Good luck! Stuidhart Martainn MacDhomnauill (mka Stuart Joseph) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> Subject: Re: Period Instruments Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 15:10:00 GMT >In article <Phyllis_Gilmore-201093123358 at 130.154.16.99> Phyllis Gilmore, >Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org writes (about epinettes): >>This instrument is related to the hurdy-gurdy (probably a predecessor). >>Like >>the hurdy-gurdy, it has drone strings (in my case, two) and melody >strings >>(in my case, one). You strum or pluck all three strings while sliding >>your finger along the fret board to play the tune. > >I don't believe it is related to the hurdy-gurdy. Hurdy-gurdies are >chorded >instruments that have common ancestors with the violin (I believe). The >"epinette", however, is a type of box zither, almost identical to the >German >"scheitholt", the modern Appalacian "mountain (lap) dulcimer", and a >couple of >Scandanavian instruments whose names I can't remember (it's "lang-" some- >thing-or-other). I'm not certain that they're in period, but it's an >obvious- >enough instrument that it's probably very old and works well with the >nearly-medieval dance music we play in the SCA. > >Ulfin <dwbutler at mtu.edu> Greetings unto the Rialto and unto Ulfin from Marke. The instruments you cited above are definitely period. The earliest account of a dulcimer-like instrument is from Persia about 3rd century B.C. I my search for medieval instruments, the hammered dulcimer is a period instrument and there seem to be several types, (1) the normal with the center and the 2 side bridges, (2) the center bridgeless, and (3) a slavic Hammered which was commonly plucked. What is interesting is the Slavic dulcimer developed into a type of Harpsichord with pedals but no keys, it was still struck by hand. Marke, Luthier From: mmckay at epas.utoronto.ca (Michael McKay) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 26 Oct 1993 12:51:25 -0400 Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto <UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> writes: >... I[n] my search for medieval instruments, the hammered dulcimer is >a period instrument and there seem to be several types, (1) the normal >with the center and the 2 side bridges, (2) the center bridgeless, and >(3) a slavic Hammered which was commonly plucked. And don't forget (4) the _dulce_melos_, a keyboard hammered dulcimer described in the mid-15th century (and considered to be a precursor of the piano!) >... the Slavic dulcimer developed into a type of Harpsichord with pedals >but no keys, it was still struck by hand. Do you mean the Cimbalom (sp. ?) ? Just how is this a Harpsichord? I'm inclined to believe that the harpsichord requires keys to be a harpsichord (It. Clavicembalo = zither (?) with keys). How do the pedals work? - Michel du Flambard From: Dan Butler-Ehle <dwbutler at mtu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 27 Oct 1993 23:37:51 GMT Organization: CCLI, Michigan Tech University Well, for what it's worth, I have the "Lark in the Morning" catalog with me today. For those who are interested in medieval and ethnic instruments, this catalog is a "must have". (That is not to say that you should necessarily order anything from them, only that you should have the catalog.) The catalog costs three bucks. Lark in the Morning P.O.Box 1176 Mendocino, CA 95460 (707) 964-5569 Ulfin of Wyrmgeard <dwbutler at mtu.edu> From: Greyhorn at f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Greyhorn) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: medieval(?) hunting Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 10:02:02 -0500 In a message dated 10-21-93 Arval d'Espas Nord wrote to All: AN> From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) Newsgroups: AN> rec.org.sca Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research AN> > I am trying to find a source from which I might purchase a "medieval > hunting horn". AN> AN> Pier One Imports. I bought one there for Doffin-Hallr Morrisson for AN> his Laurel last Twelfth Night. AN> Or any MJ Designs, Frank's Nursery and Crafts, Total Crafts, or just about any antique shop. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: leighann at sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey) Subject: Re: Period Instruments Organization: Sybase, Inc. Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 00:06:33 GMT Greetings to the Rialto from Siobhan! Maredudd wrote: >> In the book, _A Description of Wales_, by Gerald of Wales, he mentions >> three instruments used by the Welsh. One of these instruments was the >> harp, but there was another which the footnotes described as a stringed >> instrument. I do not recall what the instrument was called, and do not >> have my reference handy. I will bring the book in tomarrow and will likely And Jehan responded: >Perhaps the instrument you're thinking of is the *crwth* (this _is_ the >correct spelling - it's welsh after all). It looks similar to a >square-body harp with maybe six or eight strings. The drawing I have is a >line drawing, and it looks like there might be a fingerboard under the >strings, but I'm not sure that would be correct unless it was a later >addition.... Don't bother with a music dictionary. Instead, find an article by Mary Remnant called "Rebec, Fiddle and Croud in England", in (I'm sorry I can't remember specifics) a back issue of one of the early music societies' publications. She also wrote a book, which may be easier to find, and incorporates much of that article: Remnant, Mary. ENGLISH BOWED INISTRUMENTS FROM ANGLO-SAXON TO TUDOR TIMES. Oxford : Clarendon Press ; New York : Oxford University Press, 1986. To summarize, I'd also lay odds that Giraldus' "stringed instrument" was the crwth, called "croud" or "crowd" in English -- it started out life as a sort of bowed lyre -- the strings were stopped by pressing with the fingernails. By Giraldus' time, and indeed by the time of the Laws of Hywel Dda, the crwth had grown a fingerboard -- though it preserved the "shoulders" of its lyre predecessor, and left one or two strings off the edge of the fingerboard to be sounded as drones with the thumbnail of the fingering hand (Hywel's laws specify a repayment price for the damaging of a crwth-player's thumbnail such that he's rendered incapable of work until the nail grows back...). In any event, check out Remnant. She's a great resource. Slainte! - Siobhan ---------------- Leigh Ann Hussey Siobhan ni hEodhusa Leigh.Ann.Hussey at sybase.com {sun,lll-tis,pyramid,pacbell}!sybase!leighann Argent, a pale vert, surmounted in base by a lion dormant or, on a chief wavy vert an Irish harp or. "The West is the best." -- Seamas MacMhoire From: afk at ElSegundoCA.NCR.COM (Art Kaufmann) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Instruments Date: 29 Oct 93 18:01:42 GMT Organization: NCR/Teradata jcaldwll at oregon.uoregon.edu (Jim Caldwell) writes: > [much deleted in the interest of bandwidth] > >Speaking of my weakness, re my earlier post, has anyone out there seen in >person or in a photo an actual crwth? A good description would be great, >as most dictionaries scant non-orchestral instrument entries (yes, there is >_New Groves_ et al, but I'd like to hear what a witness has seen). > >Jehan Bretel > >*Jim Caldwell >*jcaldwll at oregon.uoregon.edu Mark - Jehan - Jim, I haven't seen a crwth, although I've heard a recording of one. It is on the tape "Rambling Sailor" by Simon Spaulding (Simon the Navigator if you are into the RenFaire scene). It's on Stella Maris, P.O. Box 7436, Berkeley, CA 94707-0436. You might also try the "Shrine To Music Museum" in Vermillion, SD. They are reputed to have an immense stringed instrument collection. --- Colin Graham | Art Kaufmann Caid | afk at ElSegundoCA.NCR.COM Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) Subject: Re: Musical Instrument Background Check Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 23:16:15 GMT Emrys asks about bowed psaltries. I too love the sound of a (well-played) bowed psaltry, but I have been unable to document them before the 20th century. Munrow makes no mention of bowing psaltries in his (quite reputable) overview of musical instruments, and Michael Praetorius did not mention them when he cataloged all known instruments in the 16th century. (Well ok, he didn't say much about those "heathen" (middle eastern) instruments, but he did try to be thorough with the European ones.) Plucked psaltries are solidly period; artistic evidence gets them to at least the 14th century, and that's off the top of my head. I'm sure they go much earlier, but it's not an instrument I've looked into much. Psaltries can be plucked with fingers or plectra (feathers are sometimes shown; you use the hard end, like for a quill). Bowing cannot be easily extrapolated from the period instrument; the design of the bowed psaltry is very different from that of the plucked psaltry, to allow for bow access. It would be nearly impossible to bow a psaltry designed for plucking; most of the notes would be completely inaccessible unless you had a teeny, tiny bow (shorter than the space between two strings). I don't think they did that, somehow. The following two books are excellent sources of information on medieval instruments: Michael Praetorius, _The Syntagma Musicum, Volume Two, De Organographia, First and Second Parts, Plus All Forty-Two Original Woodcut Illustrations from Theatrum Instrumentorum_, tr. Harold Blumenfeld, Da Capo Press, New York, 1980. David Munrow, _Instruments of the Middle Ages and Renaissance_, Oxford University Press, New York, 1976. Ellisif Flakkari Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) Subject: Re: Musical Instrument Background Check Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 05:33:01 GMT Philippa asks: >This whole discussion is depressing. I, too, would so >love the bowed psaltery to be Period. However, the >word "psaltery" seems to be period--what instrument >would this have referred to in period? The plucked psaltry is certainly period. The instrument was typically either rectangular or "boar's snout" in shape (the latter is hard to describe; think of half an hourglass and you're in the right ballpark). Metal strings were strung across it, with each one being tuned to a single note in much the same way that the harp is. Tuning was typically diatonic -- the instrument would be tuned in a particular key, and by starting at the right string and playing 8 consecutive strings, you'd be able to play a major scale. I don't have my books handy to verify this, but I believe typical range was about two octaves. The strings were plucked with the fingers, feathers, or other sorts of plectra. You can play it either by cradling it in one arm or by laying it on your lap. Ellisif From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Musical Instrument Background Check Date: 14 Dec 1993 16:29:16 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley >Greetings from Emrys ap Dafydd. > >At a recent craft fair, I saw a couple selling bowed psalters (psaltries??). >Is this thing period?? I think I gotta have one. I cannot give any citations for this information off the top of my head (and I'm currently painting my office, so the books are ... unavailable) but my understanding is that the bowed psaltery is a 20th century invention. Plucked psalterys, are wonderfully medieval, but the strings are arranged differently. Sorry, Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) Subject: Re: Bowed Psaltries Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 23:06:51 GMT Bartholomew asks: >is there any reason why one could not 'pick' or 'pluck' a bowed >psaltry? I understand it would not make the same sound, but would >it simulate an appropriate period instrument? It would not be exactly like playing a (period) psaltry, but in my opinion it would not be jarring to do so. This is in the same category as using 16th-century embroidery on a 14th-century dress: experts will know, but you will not disrupt the ambience of the event and 99%+ of the attendees won't notice. Here are some differences you will encounter: The strings on your bowed psaltry are probably closer together than they are on a psaltry intended to be plucked. This means that if you wish to play in the same manner as the period instrument, plucking the center of the string, you may find it a little tricker. You could solve this by plucking at the end, where the bow would be placed; this will affect the sound a little bit and will make your playing style less period. Again, that's not something that would be so jarring that you shouldn't do it, but you should be aware of it. Also because of the string placement, you will probably have difficulty plucking chords (especially if you decide to play at the ends of the strings). Another factor to consider is that your bowed psaltry is probably fully cromatic over 2 octaves or so, but period ones probably weren't. We of course don't know that no one ever tuned the instrument chromatically, but evidence points to diatonic tunings. This also is not a big deal; its impact on you will be that you might be able to play music on your psaltry that you could not play on a period instrument. But if you don't abuse that, it shouldn't be a problem. Ellisif Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: howland at noc.arc.nasa.gov (Curt Howland) Subject: Horde Music (forward) Organization: NASA Science Internet Project Office Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 05:37:25 GMT Forwarded for anyone else that might be interested, or that might have addenda (a scattering of addendums?): From djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu Tue Jan 4 13:57:12 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 13:55:41 -0800 From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) Content-Length: 906 Greetings, m'lord.... You posted asking after a b-shaped musical instrument played by a gentleman in Russian garb. This sounds to me like a bandura, a Ukrainian folk instrument. One hand plays the long strings (which have frets, I _think_) and the other plays the short strings, and the result is a sort of cross-handed appearance. I don't know how old the bandura is, but I remember a Ukrainian friend playing one and singing a folk song which, he said, went all the way back to pagan times. This still doesn't prove how old the bandura is, but it's been around a while. I would've posted this, but my connection seems to be fouled up at the moment. It lets me read, off and on, but about thirty seconds after I try to post, it goes "[site number] timed out...." Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu From: sbloch at ms.uky.edu (Stephen Bloch) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Hammered Dulcimer Date: 15 Feb 1994 23:59:25 -0500 Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences <macdj at delphi.com> wrote: >Greetings! I am new to this news group so forgive me for any mistakes. You might want to also check out the news group rec.music.early for discussions of "pre-Classical Western music". >I am looking for sources of medieval music written for the Hammered Dulcimer. I'm not aware of any medieval music written specifically for the hammered dulcimer. First, most medieval music is not marked as "for" any particular instrument(s). Second, while instruments related to the modern hammered dulcimer have existed from China to North Africa for many centuries, I have seen NO reference to, or depiction of, one in medieval Europe. (Quick check of the indexes of Hoppin's _Medieval Music_, Page's _Voices and Instruments of the Middle Ages_, and Grout's _History of Western Music_... no, nothing.) The closest thing I've seen that's common in medieval Europe is the plucked psaltery, which more closely resembles a modern zither. (Among other things, the plucked psaltery is the only common medieval instrument I know of that typically had metal strings, rather than gut.) That said, however, I don't want to discourage learning it. >I would like to learn >to play popular dance tunes plus background music for feasts and such. I'm assuming by your choice of words that you read music. I'm also assuming you want actual medieval and/or Renaissance music, not just 18th-20th-century folk songs. There are several books of dance music available from SCA publishers, and others outside the SCA. The only SCA dance book I have is the Rose and Nefr book, which includes dance instructions and music for dozens of the dances done most often in the SCA. The two most useful primary sources for common SCA dances are Arbeau's _Orchesography_, available in English translation, paperback, from Dover for $10 or so, and Playford's _English Dancing Master_, reprinted and published in paperback by Dance Books Ltd., 9 Cecil Court, London WC2. The latter is reprinted in modern notation; the former is in 16th-century notation, which has C clefs, inconsistent measure lines, and slightly odd-looking note heads, but it's not bad. I don't recommend learning dance music WITHOUT learning the associated dances: you'll be a much better dance musician if you know how many times to repeat and what tempo is reasonable. For "background music for feasts and such", there are six centuries of music you can choose from. A lot of that was originally intended to be vocal, and some of it doesn't stand up too well instrumentally. Look for the 16th-17th-century English keyboard stuff, such as the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book (which should be in any University library's music section). An advantage of this is that the timbre of a virginal isn't that different from that of a hammered dulcimer, so you'll get a reasonable approximation to the original effect. As much of the market for books like this consisted of amateur musicians, there should be pieces of a wide range of difficulty. If you want earlier stuff that's tuneful enough to stand without lyrics, look for the Spanish Cantigas de Santa Maria, the Italian laude, and the German minnesinger songs; much of this is collected in "Monophonic Songs of the 12th and 13th Centuries", edited for C recorder and published privately by Persis Ensor; Alban St. Alban's carried this book a few years ago; you might ask whether he still does. mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at s.ms.uky.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: davids at konig.bellcore.com (David Shallcross) Subject: Re: Hammered Dulcimer Summary: existed at 1511 Organization: Bellcore Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 17:13:09 GMT In article <2js97d$jsd at s.ms.uky.edu> sbloch at ms.uky.edu (Stephen Bloch) (aka mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib) writes: ><macdj at delphi.com> wrote: >>I am looking for sources of medieval music written for the Hammered Dulcimer. > >I'm not aware of any medieval music written specifically for the hammered >dulcimer. First, most medieval music is not marked as "for" any particular >instrument(s). Second, while instruments related to the modern hammered >dulcimer have existed from China to North Africa for many centuries, I have >seen NO reference to, or depiction of, one in medieval Europe. (Quick check >of the indexes of Hoppin's _Medieval Music_, Page's _Voices and Instruments >of the Middle Ages_, and Grout's _History of Western Music_... no, nothing.) >The closest thing I've seen that's common in medieval Europe is the plucked >psaltery, which more closely resembles a modern zither. (Among other things, >the plucked psaltery is the only common medieval instrument I know of that >typically had metal strings, rather than gut.) That said, however, I don't >want to discourage learning it. > Although the hammered dulcimer may not have existed in *Medieval* Europe, I have a copy of an English translation of Sebastian Virdung's _Musica Getutsch_ (originally published in German in 1511) that includes a picture of a hammered dulcimer (with beaters). I believe the German caption calls it a "Hackbrett" (my copy is at home right now, so there may be errors in the details). Michael Praetorius's Syntagma Musicum (about 1614) also has a picture of one. So hammered dulcimers did exist in Renaissance Europe, and within the period of the Society. They are certainly contemporaneous with the flowering of music printing and publishing of the 1500's. But I don't know of any music written specifically for the hammered dulcimer, either. Godefroi du Lac davids at bellcore.com Settmour Swamp, EK Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) Subject: Re: Hammered Dulcimer Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 22:08:14 GMT sbloch at ms.uky.edu (Stephen Bloch) writes: >Second, while instruments related to the modern hammered >dulcimer have existed from China to North Africa for many centuries, I have >seen NO reference to, or depiction of, one