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Enchntd-Grd-msg - 8/5/96

Master Caridoc's period encampment at Pennsic.

NOTE: See also the files: BP-Thingie-msg, Pennsic-gifts-msg, P-storage-msg,
P-stories-msg, P-tale-MWIFO-art, Enchnted-Grd-msg, camp-kitchens-msg.


This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Date: 12 Jul 91 04:05:29 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago

      The Enchanted Ground: An Invitation

As many of you know, I regularly run an in-persona encampment at
Pennsic. The purpose of this note is to invite people to camp with us
and to visit.

Many people seem to assume that our requirements are much more
difficult than they actually are. We do not generally speak in Latin
or Arabic, we do not spend our time talking about what is happening
in January of 1103 A.D., we do not care whether you used a sewing
machine to make your garb.

What we do care about is whether we are talking and acting in a way
that makes it unnecessarily obvious that we are in the twentieth
century. In the case of the bardic circle, for instance, I do not
mind if the song someone sings was actually written in 1660, provided
there is nothing in it that makes that fact obvious (i.e. it does not
mention dates or prominent events). I object very much to an
introduction apologizing for the fact that the song was written in
1660, since the introduction, unlike the song, is obviously out of
period. Similarly, we normally light our fires with matches (unless
Aelfwyne happens to be around), but we do not talk about matches.

If you want to visit, the only requirement is that you are willing to
behave appropriately--to talk about things as your persona, not as
you talking about your persona. If you want to camp with us, there is
the additional requirement that your equipment not be obviously and
unnecessarily out of period. Obviously means ripstop nylon, poptents,
coleman stoves and lanterns and the like. An example of something
that is permitted because it is too hard for some people to do
without, although it is obviously out of period, is a modern pair of
glasses. We just don't notice them. Our restrictions do not apply
inside your tent, where nobody else can see you.

If you are interested in camping with us, or have questions, get in
touch by EMail, phone, or letter as soon as practical, since we will
be making our plans in the next few weeks.

Arastorm, in her recent posting, mentioned that the encampment is
often empty during the day. That was true a few years ago. As a way
of dealing with the problem (and for other reasons) we started the
Academy. It consists of in persona classes and conversations, and is
held after lunch in the encampment; in persona classes are classes
where teacher and students are speaking as their personas. Anyone is
welcome. If you want to teach a class or lead a discussion, get in
touch with Madeleine (Rhe6 at Midway.Chicago.Edu); she is in charge of
the Academy.

Come on in, the water's fine.

David Friedman, 4919 S. Dorchester, Chicago, IL 60615
(312) 373-7881
DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu

From: rhe6 at quads.uchicago.edu (mindy miriam rheingold)
Date: 13 Jul 91 22:25:53 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago

Visit the scenic Enchanted Ground!  Attend the colorful and stimulating
Academy!  See the Majestic Duke! (My boyfriend was squired by a Duke once.
No, really...)

The Enchanted Ground really is great fun.  If you are uncertain what to expect o
or have heard dubious rumors about us, let me try to give you an idea of what
to expect and not to expect should you decide to honour us with your company.

We will welcome you, introduce ourselves, ask your name, and invite you to
join the Academy or the Bardic Circle if either is going on.  We will offer
you refreshment.  If I am there, I will set wafers and spiced wine before
you (Cariodoc will frown but I will not care) and be utterly charming to
you, even you are English.  If there is not an Academy or Bardic Circle
going on, I will speak to you about various and sundry.  If you are a lady,
perhaps I will talk about Christine de Pisan's latest book, gossip about
how handsome Sir Whosits looks in his armor, or ask you where you got that
charming gown.  If you are a gentleman, perhaps I will flirt ever so
decorously with you and then Cariodoc will ask you if you want to marry me
(Pay him no mind.  He does this all the time, poor deluded soul.  Seems to
think it's part of his guardian duties or somesuch)  If Rebecca, Cariodoc
and Elizabeth's daughter, is about, then all attention will be focused on
her and we will all exclaim over how adorable she is and ask her what the
cat says so that she will say "Meow."


Contrary to contrary opinion we are not the Authenticity Police.  To be
Authenticity Police is both tedious and un-medieval and we are neither.
Medieval people did not go around lighting threads on other people's
clothing and talking about polyester and we are pretending to be medieval
people.  I, for one, don't care if you are wearing a Swatch or purple
leather underwear as long as you don't show them or tell me about them.
Nor will ask you what century you are from or whether that Italian
Renaissance gown is proper for a Scots bard.  Since we are pretending to
be medieval people we can not comprehend that there can be anyone from any
other time than our own wandering around.  This attitude neatly eliminates
any need for any mention of centuries, or, for that matter, of the Middle
Ages.  We are pretending to be medieval people and medieval people didn't
know that they were medieval (Can you imagine what ghastly epitaphs they're
going to put on US in 500 years?  I'd rather not even think about it.)
We will not give you persona history quizes.  We may ask you how the weather
in Venice is, but that's about the extent of it.  Most of us in the Enchanted
Ground don't know lots about our own persona's period, let alone anyone
else's, and even if we did, we wouldn't grill you on them.  We want to make
you feel welcome, notuncomfortable.  We also won't talk about specifically
SCA related things, like whether or not the Laurel Herald passed SoandSo's
badge or the outrageous things that were passed at the last BOD meeting, or
how Lord Whatsis has just completely ruined the baronial newsletter.

What we at the Enchanted Ground want to do most of all is to have fun
pretending to be medeival people.  If that sounds good to you, please
come and join us.


From: rhe6 at quads.uchicago.edu (mindy miriam rheingold)
Date: 13 Jul 91 23:02:31 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago

All right, Madeleine, you say, so you've told us what to expect should we
venture into the Enchanted Ground.  Now, what's the catch?  What do WE
have to do?  

Well you don't HAVE to do anything really, except die and pay taxes, and, if
you have your own religion, not even that.  But here are some guidelines

What you DO NOT need to visit the Enchanted Ground:

1. A history degree

2. A full and detailed persona history

3. A Laurel

4. Meticulously researched and handsewn garb

5. Skill in fancy, high-blown language

6. 1001 poems, tales, or songs

(If you have any or all of the above, you are still welcome.  Just don't
make a big deal about the history degree)

What we DO ask of our gentle guests:

1.  Courtesy.  This just means be polite to folks.

2.  Appropriate behavior.  this consists of:

        A) Pretending you are a medieval person living in the Middle Ages,
        who has no knowledge of or contact with the modern world.

        B) Not talking about non-medieval things and not talking about
        medieval things as if you were a modern person.

3.  Appropriate attire.  This consists of :

        A) A reasonable attempt at medieval clothes.  This does not mean
        fancy or hand-sewed, though we certainly make no objections to
        your looking decorative.

        B) Not wearing, not showing, and not mentioning non-medieval items.
        What this boils down to in practical terms is: please don't carry
        a Coke can in the encampment, keep your watch hidden, and don't
        apologize for or mention your glasses or your crutches.  We are
        certainly not asking you to forgo items that are necessary for your
        health and safety, but it is easier for us to ignore them if you
        don't mention them.  I myself will probably be wearing a wrist
        splint (carpal tunnel, doncha know), but will cover it with a
        white cloth bandage and tell all inquirers that I sprained it
        while hunting.  If no one inquires, I won't mention it.

4.      A desire to have fun.  This is indispensible.

Oh, and about the Academy. There is still room for a few more classes.
Please let me know if you'd like to teach. You can email me at:
rhe6 at midway.uchicago.edu or phone me at (312)363-8271 or smail me at:
Mindy Miriam Rheingold
5322 1/2 S. Drexel Avenue #3B
Chicago, IL 60615

Any sort of appropriate subject matter is welcome, and anything on Philosophy,
Poetry, or Theology would be most appreciated.


From: rhe6 at quads.uchicago.edu (mindy miriam rheingold)
Date: 13 Jul 91 23:30:02 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago

Okay, Madeleine, you say, so maybe I don't need a history degree and an
authentically made cote-hardie to visit the Enchanted Ground, but I know
next to nothing about my persona's history, or even the Middle Ages in
general!  And I'm not an actor or even very much at ease socially.  I'm
the sort of person who gibbers helplessly at cocktail parties!  I mean,
I'd really like to visit the Enchanted Ground, but I don't know what to
say and I don't want to look stupid or unmedieval.

You go to cocktail parties?!  

Just relax.  You don't have to say much.  You don't even have to say anything.
There are plenty of us able and willing to natter on endlessly in pseudo-
medieval fashion, and you can just sit there smiling and we'll think you're
merely the strong, silent type or the shy, modest type.  Once you've been
around us and listened to us a bit, you'll get an idea of what to talk about.

But I just hate sitting there and not saying anything.

Alright, alright.  I will now give you Madeleine's Two Golden Rules of
Social Interaction (Medieval or otherwise)

1. Compliment

2. Ask questions.

We will, no doubt, be plying you with food and drink. You can talk about them.
Say how good the wafers taste.  Ask me what spices are in the wine.  

You have now consumed a modest, though substantial quantity of wafers and
wine and are feeling somewhat more at ease. you become less reticent.  You
tell Griffin how pretty her gown is.  You ask if the French ever drink
beer.  You wonder why Cariodoc tells every marginally eligible male that he
has a ward he is trying to marry off.  You ask about my dowry.  You smile
winningly at me and say that no doubt I am a very accomplished young lady.
I talk about my skill with philters and herbs and mention the Italian branch
of my family, smiling sweetly all the while.  I offer you more wine.  You
hastily decline and wax eloquent about remaining single.  You discuss armor
with Cariodoc and say how adorable Cariodoc's daughter is.  Cariodoc offers to
tell a tale.  You listen.  You eat more wafers, say thank you and go back
to your camp for dinner.

See how easy?


From: salley at canisius.UUCP (Dagonell the Juggler)
Date: 17 Jul 91 22:07:00 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo N.Y. 14208

RE: Enchanted Ground, More Unacceptable Excuses...

"But, I can't speak 'forsoothly' or do a proper English accent."
  -- So what, neither could Kevin Cosner, it didn't stop him. ;-)  Seriously,
     Dagonell should be ignoring everything Cariadoc says because they don't
     have a language in common, but we ignore details like that.  Speak normal
     English.  Words that are out of period but don't jar the ear (e.g. grog,
     elusive, etc.) will be accepted.  Just don't use the one's that are
     jarring (e.g. computer, rocket, etc.).

"But, my persona is ______, my people are at war with ________'s."
  -- Generally, it's the governments and armies who are at war.  The populace
     doesn't have the problem quite that badly.  There are numerous ways
     around it.  Cariadoc is a merchant, he's not about to let a Frank's lack
     of the proper faith stop him from taking the Frank's money.  Dagonell
     is a mercenary, he'll kill somebody when he's *paid* to kill somebody. ;-)

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat     : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley at klaatu.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029

From: David Friedman <DDF2 at cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authentic or Original?
Date: 26 Sep 1993 04:23:37 GMT
Organization: Cornell University

In article <282tb0$et at cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> CLIS library,
lecuyer at wam.umd.edu writes:
>A question on your minimun requirements for the Enchanted >Ground... If
I brought my favorite Bard with me one night >would she be allowed to
play her guitar? She, you and I
>all know this ain't period, but it does carry well in a  >crowded hall.
Although she has some histarical songs about >the every day existance in
the SCA ("All hail the BOD" comes >to mind) she has also written epic
length songs based  
>on stories from Celtic mythology.

1. Yes. My basic requirement is "nothing obviously and unnecessarily out
of period." A guitar is not, by my standards, obviously out of period.
There are period instruments that look similar enough so that someone
with no expertise in period instruments  would be unlikely to notice
which were or were not period.

2. I suspect from your final comment that your favorite bard may be
Morgan Wolfsinger. If so, she not only is welcome at my circle, she has a
small collection of my silver arm rings.

DDF2 at Cornell.Edu  (I think this one works)
Also DDFr at aol.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)
Subject: Re: Pennsic... Info For 1st Timers (Driving)
Organization: University of Chicago Law School
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 03:36:11 GMT

In article <greykD91sD1.JJw at netcom.com>, greyk at netcom.com (Grey Knowles)

> I am sorry to have not made myself more clear, the question should have been:
> 6) Are there any specialty provisos I should be aware of for camping in
> the Enchanted Ground area, aside from the norm?

The Enchanted Ground is not an area, it is an encampment. If you want to
camp in it, you have to get in touch with whomever is organizing it (me in
past years, Liz Stokes this year: ilaine at panix.com) before the date at
which land claim papers have to go in, so you can be included in the list
of people we are claiming land for, just as for any other encampment. Since
I am not involved this year (moving outkingdom this summer, so will not be
at Pennsic) I do not know what date that is.

The requirements in past years, and I presume this year as well, are:

1. No equipment that is obviously and unnecessarily out of period. That
means no modern tents, coleman stoves, coleman lanterns. A period looking
tent made out of modern material that looks like period material is not
"obviously out of period," so is permitted. Ordinary eyeglasses are
obviously out of period but necessary for some people, so are also
permitted (and ignored).

2. No behaviour that is obviously and unnecessarily out of period when
inside our boundary. That means that you are in persona all the time you
are in the encampment (except, if you wish, inside your own tent where
nobody can see you). It does not mean that you have to be a scholar, or
have an elaborate persona story, or speak latin--merely that you remember
to talk about things as your persona, not as someone talking about the
middle ages from the outside.

People who are not camped with us are still welcome to come visit, subject
to the same rules--don't bring a Coleman lantern, and don't discuss things
from an out of period point of view.
DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu

From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Enchanted Ground at This Pennsic
Date: 29 May 1996 02:09:55 GMT
Organization: Best Internet Communications

There will be an Enchanted Ground at this Pennsic. Anyone interested in
being part of the encampment should get in touch with Liz Stokes
<ilaine at panix.com>, since she is handling land claim for us.

For those who are not familiar with it, the Enchanted Ground is an
encampment within which everyone is in persona all of the time, so that we
are interacting as medieval people, not as modern people with a medieval
hobby. To make that easier, we try to avoid obviously out of period
objects as well as out of period behavior.

The basic rule is that there should be nothing visible or audible within
the encampment that is both obviously and unnecessarily out of period. A
tent of synthetic fabric that looks like cotton canvas is acceptable
because it is not obviously out of period. Eyeglasses are acceptable (and
ignored) because, for many people, doing without them makes things very
difficult. Modern looking tents, Coleman stoves (where other people can
see them), etc. are not allowed within the encampment. If we find that we
have to talk about something our personae could not talk about, such as
modern sources of information, we simply move the conversation outside of
the boundary of the encampment.

Camping with us does not require that your equipment be elaborate, that
you have a persona story worked out in great detail, or that you have vast
historical knowledge--merely that you are willing to adopt your persona's
viewpoint while within the encampment, and, so far as possible, do without
any equipment that would make it hard for the rest of us to imagine that
we are in the Middle Ages.

Anyone with questions about how the encampment works should EMail me
and/or read the articles about it on the web from the Miscellany. They

"A Dying Dream"

"The Enchanted Ground: A Progress Report"  

Some other relevant articles are:

"Concerning a Dream"

"Staying in Persona and Other Things: An Opinion

"Concerning Consistency or Ignorance is Bliss"

And the index to the Miscellany is at

ddfr at best.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Enchantment
Date: 30 Jul 1996 11:37:17 -0400
Organization: The Internet

     Greetings from Yaakov:
     David Talan wrote:
     > It's been a while since I was at Pennsic and my memory may be faulty
     > but if I recall correctly, it may be quite permissible for photos to
     > be shown in the enchanted ground. If I were to meet someone in the
     > encampment and we retired to the privacy of his or her pavilion, I
     > don't think anyone would be bothered by the activity. As I know that
     > the Enchanted Ground organizers read this newsgroup, I am sure that
     > I will be corrected if I am in error.
     Last year I was running the Academy at Enchanted Ground (his Grace
     being absent) and someone unfamiliar with our standards began to pass
     around photos of the subjects of her talk (gargoyles in Ireland) as
     "illustrations."  I asked her to join me outside the ropes and
     explained that we didn't do that.  Even if we call it an illustration,
     it *is* a photograph and everyone recognizes it as such- therefore
     spoiling the effect.  The person responded that she had no other means
     to show people what she meant.  I pointed out she could still describe
     them.  She agreed, we returned, and had a good class.  She commented
     afterwards that sticking to the rules presented some interesting
     challenges and that she had learned something as well as teaching.

<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org