burials-msg – 2/3/08
Period funeral practices.
NOTE: See also the files: brass-rub-msg, relics-msg, Relics-fr-all-art, punishments-msg, crusades-msg, religion-msg.
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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Bill McNutt (11/29/93)
To: Mark Harris
RE>Religion and the Societ
FROM: Bill McNutt
" Continuing Information Services
" 600 Henley Street, 4th Floor
Okay:
I can't document anything, for I was a mere student, but...
The cultures are primarily British Isles, early France, and Scandinavia.
The time period is from early SCA period to late 1600's, I believe.
Bogs varied in content and consistency. Anything that could serve as nothing
but a garbage dump was used. Mud, and silt, cold, with a low organic content
have yielded the most useful finds, but finds have been made in all manner of
muddy holes.
Reasons for bog burials are many. For some, esp. late, it was a punishment.
Bogs were not generally hallowed ground. Bogs were also mostly useless for
anything else, so contaminating them with dead bodies didn't present a
problem. Bog burials are cheap in terms of time and money, as well. In many of
the locations bog burial was used, permafrost or scarce firewood were
considerations to be, well, considered. In some areas, firmer ground was
sufficiently scarce to warrant not wasting it on dead meat.
It was also customary to evicerate the deceased and stuff him with stones to
prevent him from floating up.
The willow staples and stones also served the purpose of keeping the cadaver
from getting up and annoying the neighbors or coming home.
I'll hit Stephanie up for her bibliography and get it back to you. I'm sure
I'm getting a lot of this stuff wrong.
May the Wind Be At Your Back,
WRM
From: Raven <JSINGLE at MUSIC.LIB.MATC.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE: Pagan Funeral Rites
Date: 21 JUL 94 12:10:50 EST
Organization: Milwaukee Area Technical College
1l26coop at bnr.ca (Natalie Overstreet) writes:
>Does anyone have any Pagan/Wiccan funeral rites? (You guys were >recommended
>to me on alt.pagan ... lucky you! :) Please repsond via email at
>gt7915b at prism.gatech.edu. Thank you very much, and Blessed Be!
"Pagan" covers a lot of territory, and might be narrowed down by the
ethnic or geographic origin of the departed.
The Viking burial involved sending off the departed with all his
personal goods -- which for someone of high rank might be considerable.
(This attitude was shared by other peoples, e.g. the Egyptians -- at
least for Pharaohs; common folk may not have been so well treated.)
The Viking burial best remembered in films had the chieftain on a bier
with his goods, on a boat set afire and pushed into the sea on the
outgoing tide. This might be impractical today. Burying or cremating
a modern pagan with his best ceremonial garb, personal book of shadows,
and sundry gifts from friends (all flammable in the case of cremation)
might be a good modern equivalent. Send him with a wealth of love.
Perhaps the oldest ritual burial known, far predating history itself,
was that of a young woman (Neanderthal or Cro-Magnon, I cannot recall)
in fetal position on her left side, wrists and ankles bound to hold
that position, painted in ochre and covered in flower petals. After
many thousand years, the simple sentiment shown in that gesture still
has power to make itself felt -- and move me to tears at this moment.
"Raven" (JSingle at Music.Lib.MATC.Edu) Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gary at sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: Burial spaces
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:16:37 GMT
SADV153 at uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu writes:
>Hmmm...Don't quote me on this, since I'm going on memory alone and can't
>remember which source I got this from, much less how reliable it is, but
>I seem to remember that it was customary to bury people under the church
>(or some other consecrated ground) for a time, and then after a period of
>a few years--when the burial ground was full--the bones would be dug up
>and discarded in a charnal house. That's possibly the reason (again,
>according to my dimly-remembered source) why Shakespeare's grave marker
>is inscribed with an epitaph cursing anyone who tries to move his bones.
>Can anyone with better knowledge of this sort of thing reassure me that I
>really *did* read this somewhere, and that I didn't just dream this up?
There is a city in modern Austria, which I read an article about, probably
in _National Geographic_ within the last year, which is noted for its'
morbid fascinations, and an extreme unwillingness to venture outside the
city walls to bury the dead (started as a problem with robbers, or something).
Underneath one church, they'd place the dead on the floor until the floor
was covered--then, some persons would be sent down to strip the flesh
off the bodies (I don't recall what was done with it; probably a trip
to the charnal house), then crush the bones by stomping them on the floor.
The current "floor" is a several foot thick layer of crushed bones atop
the original stones.
Another place has the heart of someone executed in the 14th century
or so, preserved in a jar of formaldehyde.
If I can find the article, I'll post a more precise reference. There
was quite a bit more like this...
--
Gary Heston SCI Systems, Inc. gary at sci.com site admin
From: SADV153 at uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Burial spaces
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 15:57:53 CDT
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham
WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter Rose) writes:
>In the meantime, consider the amount of space taken up in a church
>by the live congregation, then consider how many generations die
>in a given year. There's not enough SPACE under a church to use for
>the general populace. My intuition (read: uneducated guess) is that
>under-church tombs were used for some combination of: a) Special
>people, and b) someplace to put bodies till the ground thawed enough
>to dig in.
Hmmm...Don't quote me on this, since I'm going on memory alone and can't
remember which source I got this from, much less how reliable it is, but
I seem to remember that it was customary to bury people under the church
(or some other consecrated ground) for a time, and then after a period of
a few years--when the burial ground was full--the bones would be dug up
and discarded in a charnal house. That's possibly the reason (again,
according to my dimly-remembered source) why Shakespeare's grave marker
is inscribed with an epitaph cursing anyone who tries to move his bones.
Can anyone with better knowledge of this sort of thing reassure me that I
really *did* read this somewhere, and that I didn't just dream this up?
:-) Jamelyn the Avid (but often forgetful) Reader
From: habura at vccsouth23.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Burial spaces
Date: 13 Oct 1994 17:55:46 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
I am reasonably sure that the contention "burial not under a church=
dishonorable" was not in force during all of our period, if it ever was.
Sir John Paston (yes, of *those* Pastons) made arrangements to be buried
outside one of the doors of his local church. (Exact citation on request.)
Yes, it's near the church, but still under open sky....and it would be
very odd for a member of one of the leading local families to request
burial in a location considered dishonorable.
Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*
From: bubba at adolf.ludd.luth.se (U.J|rgen \hman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: How tall were they and how to bury them.
Date: 11 Oct 1994 17:23:04 +0100
Organization: Lulea University Computer Society - Ludd
Greetings all, Ulf here.
Those found buried at or close to battlefields were not nobles or
knights. An army was put together with knights, professional
mercenaries and peasants. The mercenaries and the peasants was mostly
buried in massgraves on or close to the battlefield. The nobles was
brought back home.
When the Danish king Valdemar Atterdag came to Gotland (a currently
Swedish island in the baltic sea) he marched towards Visby. On the way
he met the islands peasant-army which was defeated.
The townspeople of Visby got scared, so they opened the gates and let
King Valdemar in. Well inside the town he "fire-taxed" it.
The peasant-army was an army of, that's right, peasants. They had no or
few mercenaries, and were poorly equipped compared to King Valdemars Forces.
Guess what kind of people that was buried outside Visby's walls after
the battle was over...peasants and perhaps a few of Valdemars mercenaries.
Well..now to something else.. Graveyards are a quite modern invention.
During the middle ages people were buried IN the church, under the churchfloor
or in crypts in the "basement". The crypts were often owned by a family.
Women were buried in the northern part, and men in the southern part of the
church. A high social standing (family,money, property, etc.) would let you
get buried closer to the altar, and, of course, the other way around.
The ones buried outside, in unconsecrated ground, were criminals, unbaptised
and suiciders(sp?). Later on (during the 17th century) the space beneath the
churchfloors was getting full, this may have occured sooner in south and central
Europe. But here in Frostheim (Lule} and Boden in Northern Sweden) they quit
buring people inside the church during the 17th century.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ulf Mj|dtunga * U.J|rgen \hman
Frostheim(where frogs live, NOT)* U.Joergen Oehman (NHL-spelling)
Barony of Nordmark *
Kingdom of Drachenwald * bubba at ludd.luth.se
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nostrand at bayes.math.yorku.ca (Barbara Nostrand)
Subject: Re: Burial spaces
Organization: York University
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:42:21 GMT
Noble Cousins!
Why are we engaging in speculation about burial customs when there is
pleanty of information out there about what was really done? The Romans
had special necropoli outside of their cities in which the dead
resided in miniatrue houses along side roads and stuff. A photograph
of these houses of the dead appears in one of the books in the
Cambridge Latin Course.
Of course, there are also the catacombs which are still full of bones.
In this, and similar death houses, the dead were laid on shelves in
subteranean chambers. Sometimes the bones were even sorted. (At least
I have seen enough photographs of piles or rows of sorted skulls and
what not.)
Orthodox Jewish interment practices require washing and wrapping of the
corpse. The corpse is then watched overnight and then placed in a plain
wooden box which is burried underground. This appears to be at least a
late medieval practice. Very early Jewish practice appears to have been
burying the dead in caves. The various patriarchs appear to have been
burried in a cave and supposably Moses was also burried in a cave with
a connecting passage to the cave of the patriarchs. Regarldess of the
specific historicity of the patriarchs it does correlate well with the
gospel narrative in the Christian New Testiment in which Jesus is also
interred in a cave. (Note. This should not be construed as evidence
for cave interment of jews during the time of the early Roman empire.
Regardless, of whether this practice was still common, the gospel writers
go to some pains to draw parallels between Jesus and Moses. What it
is strong evidence for is a tradition of cavern internment circa the
late 1st and early 2nd centuries CE.)
Now, I read (I wish I could remember where) that medieval burial practice
(in England I believe) was barrow internment in which the dead were laid
in special death houses above the ground. Interment below the ground
was supposably a more recent inovation (but still period). Incidentally,
the Huron Indians had an interesting practice of burying the dead twice.
The dead were first placed in a death house where the bodies remained until
the flesh left the bones and then the bones were tranfered to another
place. (This is as best as I can recall from my first nations ethnology
course of years gone by.) The historical Buddah was first washed, then
placed in a coffin and the coffin with the Buddah burned and then the
bones placed in a coffin. (Some hold that the ashes and bones were divided
into several parts and sent off with different groups of disciples.)
This historical practice with the Buddah is the foundation of still extant
Buddhist burrial practices. Incidentally, Buddhist temples are somewhat
descended from Indian stuppah (burial mound) architecture. The pagoda
is essentially an overgrown symbolic stuppah which acts as a relicuary.
Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 02:44:54 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Anglo-Saxon funerary urns
>1) What specifically were these Anglo-Saxon funerary urns?
Biggish open pots with decorations that vary depending of the time/area
they were made
>Were these used bury the cremated remains?
Yes
>Or used in some other way?
Some were probably used before as cooking vessels
> How big were they and what were their shapes?
Depends how big the person was but generally 10 inches wide x 10 inches
(my estimate)
> I assume if Hroar [Stormgengr] was involved that they were probably
>made of clay?
Yes
> Were they decorated?
Quite often but not always (ie with stamps lines, bosses etc NOT glazed or
sliptrailed etc)
The Shires Archeology book on Anglo Saxon Pottery has loads of diagrams in [it].
I live 5 miles from Thurmaston one of the most documented of the sites for
this (if anyone want the full report I think there are still a few left at
the Museum )
We have many other similar sites within 10 miles too.
I might have some photo about I could look. If you look at my pages
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MelanieWilson/anglianm.htm go to
the pottery one. Here you will see mainly 5th C Domestic pottery. But the
diagrams of the more fancy ones, would often be used later for funerary
purposes. On the photo the larger urns at the back of the shelves are 5 & 6
th C urns. Real ones with the remains in.
Mel
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:58:54 EST
From: freyja1 at juno.com (Timothy a Whitcomb)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Anglo-Saxon funerary urns
>Hertha said, back on December 31:
>> ps - I had the good fortune to see one of your [Hroar's?] Anglo-Saxon
>> funerary urns
>> earlier this month at the Memorial Service for Ellen Pinegar here in the
>> Kansas City area. I really really liked it!
>
>I find this comment of Hertha's interesting on several accounts.
>
>1) What specifically were these Anglo-Saxon funerary urns?
SNIPPED
>Were they decorated? Hroar, I'd be interested in hearing more
>details about these urns in general or these you did yourself.
[Since Mel adressed most of these questions, I will not reapeat them
here. The piece i made was about 30 cm tall, and close to 1/2 that at it's
widest point. While some were roundish, others are like a truncated,
fattish tear drop, which is what I made. For decoration, I made extensive
use of stamps and incised lines.]
>2) From an SCA sociology aspect this is also interesting. Were these
>actually used in the memorial service?
[I do not know..]
> For entombment or just for the service?
[I think it now occupies a place of honor in her husbands home..]
>Was this lady SCA?
[Yes she was..I had only met her a few times, so i did not know her
extremely well, but other dear friends did, and they tell me this pot is
exactly what she would have wanted. I am honored to have been asked to
make it.]
SNIPPED...
> To many, it seems the SCA is more than a recreation or game.
[it is to me....]
>Lord Stefan li Rous
Hroar
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 00:52:30 -0600
From: froggestow at juno.com (Roberta R Comstock)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Anglo-Saxon funerary urns
Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net> writes:
>I find this comment of Hertha's interesting on several accounts.
>
>1) What specifically were these Anglo-Saxon funerary urns? Were these
>used bury the cremated remains? Or used in some other way? How big were
>they and what were their shapes? I assume if Hroar was involved that
>they were
>probably made of clay? Were they decorated?
I'll leave it to Hroar to give the specifics on the urn. My impression
from just seeing it, but not handling it was that it was unglazed clay,
sort of a terra-cotta color, with stamped (I think) geometric designs
scattered on the surface. I'd guess it would be about the right volume
to hold cremated remains - more than a quart, but less than two quarts
(to use a familiar size reference); wheel thrown, round flat base, sides
gently flared out and then necked in to make sort of a shoulder at the
top; top opening slightly flared again (to diameter of about 5 inches?);
height estimated about 10 or 11 inches. (There was a line at the display
table, so i didn't have time for a closer look.) There was no lid
evident. (I'll be waiting to see how closely my description matches
Hroar's.)
>2) From an SCA sociology aspect this is also interesting. Were these
>actually used in the memorial service?
In this case, it was for display only.