keys-locks-msg - 2/15/08 Medieval keys and locks. NOTE: See also the files: keys-locks-bib, furniture-msg, metalworking-msg, decor-sources-msg, furniture-msg, beds-msg, tools-msg, tools-bib, blacksmithing-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: James L. Jordan (6/16/94) To: Mark Harris RE>Source for Inexpensive Keys My my, so many questions, so little time. Ignoring early locks (ie. viking period), where the key is used to push a spring out of the way and move the bolt aside, let's see... The locks we use today are made of a stack of discs with a slot cut through the middle for the key to slide in. each one of the notches and bumps on your house key matches up with one of these discs ('tumblers). If the bump is to long, or not long enough, you sleep i your car. In the good old days a key would be basically a rectangular plate sticking out of a round shaft. The slots cut into the 'plate' allowed metal pins (wards) attached to the inside of the lock to pass through when the key was turned. The head of the key (plate with notches) does two things when it gets near the top. 1) it lifts up a spring that keeps the locking bar in place 2) it slides the bar out of the way. They used this 800 years ago, and they used the same basic system in your grandmother's house. Trivia- keys used in doors were symetric sot hey could be used from either side. Catalouges of medieval archeoloical digs ten to turn up a lot of keys (people have always lost them I guess) and thye usually give a digram of the locks they went to. Hows that? Jay Jordan (Lord Thorvald Hrafnsson) From: James L. Jordan (6/17/94) To: Mark Harris Mail*Link® SMTP RE>Source for Inexpensive Questions, questions... One of my sources is "Medieval Ojects & Economy in Winchester (England)", Ian H. Goodall is one of the main editors. They did a acoprehensive archeological survey and so covered items from Roman times up through the 14th-15th century. Keys and locks were made of iron. Sometimes the locks were tin plated for rustproofing. Locks were custom made for a peice (chest or whatever) and were therfore pretty expensive and came in all sorts of sizes and types. For those who couldn't afford that, padlocks were more affordable and more portable. In Norse culture, the keeping of the keys waas one of the wifes responsibilities and she displayed them on her person as a badge of office. (I also think the more keys, the walthier you appeared). In other European cultures, the key was kept by a person if it was a very private matter, or handed over to a servant if it wqas a matter of household operation (key to the liquor cabinet, and all that good stuff). Locks were not only security, but a sign of wealth. Fancier locks meant more money. Some keys had very elaboate heads that would indicate a very complicated lock within, but most were dummies just cut in for show. Some later period examples I've seen (German, 16th century) were incredibly elaborate and functional. There was a transition form the village blacksmith to a locksmith that increased the complexity of locks. Whew, I'm out of breath. Later Jay Jordan (Lord Thorvald Hrafnsson) From: jjordan at yorick.umd.edu (James L. Jordan) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Source for Inexpensive Keys needed Date: 15 Jun 1994 13:02:20 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park What do you mean by an "early appearing key"? I happen to make locks, and the keys that go with them vary quite a bit from, say the 9th century, up to the 14th century depending on the design of the lock. Regular locks and keys did not change much in function from the 13th cen. until the 19th when tumbler locks started takeing over. I was in a hardware store the other day, and saw some skeleton keys with the regular keys. Presumably for dressers, etc. that have mostly decorative locks. They look a lot like 'earlier' keys. File off the 'made in China', perhaps get rid of the bright finish or blacken and you will have an old looking key. The teeth on the bit wont be fancy, but a hacksaw can take care of that. Places that sell furiture (the good stuff) may have acess to different types ans sizes of keys. I usually just make my own. Hope that helps. Thorvald Hrafnsson, Atlantia From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Source for Inexpensive Keys needed Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 14:50:50 EDT Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op dragonsl at hebron.connected.com (Ralph Lindberg) writes: > Please excuse the cross posting, but these are the three groups that > most likely would have the information I want. > I am looking for an inexpensive source for early appearing keys. They > need not work as they are just for show. I've tried my usual wood > worker/metal working catalogs and found nothing. Please e-mail me any > responces. Thanks ahead of time...Ralph > > Ralph Lindberg N7BSN More hobbies than time > Ellen Winnie N7PYK Just because I'm not doing anything > email => dragonsl at connected.com doesn't mean I have nothing to do. > Members SCA, REI, ARRL, AMSAT, PS Lacemakers, NW Microwave, KCFMS, CS-VHF, > Good Sams, RPI and Kitsap ARES > Megan here. I am a lover of old keys. Having a real house at Pennsic made it appropriate for me to have some keys dangling from my belt. I go to antique shops for mine...especially the dingy dank ones that sell almost anything. Flea markets are another good source. Hint...wear an old key from a cord round your neck...hold it up as you inquire "Got any old keys?" so they will know exactly which type you are looking for. You shouldn't pay more than $5. for a large key, or $1. for a small skeleton key. The wards of the key, to appear more medieval, should be like a maze, with intricate cut outs of a square field. The ring should be round. But most people won't know the difference today. In 20 years, however, the authenticity police should be sufficiently educated about medieval keys to demand accuracy.;-) Medieval locks...now there's something I lust after. Any smiths out there who want to make me a working reproduction of a 16th century lock for my house at Pennsic? I will pay cash! Megan == In 1994: Linda Anfuso non moritur cujus fama vivat In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| From: jjordan at yorick.umd.edu (James L. Jordan) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Source for Inexpensive Keys needed Date: 20 Jun 1994 13:27:29 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Woop woop! Pull over please, it's the authenticity police! The bows (back end) of keys do not have to be round. The most common keys between, say 12th and the 19th had round bows because tehy wer the simplest to make. Some were diamond shaped, some had pieces that were cast, and had all sorts of fancy scroll work, etc. Keys from earlier periods have a toatally different shape as they operateed the locks differently. I happen to make period locks, mostly for chests, but I have played with a few types of pad locks. Oh, before I foget. You know that fancy 'maze' pattern you said to look for in the teeth of the key? In period, a lot of those fancy twists and turns were bogus. It is a hundred times easier to cut notches in the key and mak it look complicated tahtn it is to actually put the wardds in the lock. After you've bolted ti to the chest, who's going to know the difference? Trivian alert! If you get a lock for your door, the head will be symetrical. This is so it can be used from both sides of the door. I suppose you want those little little plate that swing down and cover the key hole? Such privacy concerns probably aren't period. Woop woop! Thank you for your time, my lady. type carefully out there. Lord Thorvald Hrafnsson (Atlantia) From: mchance at nyx10.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Source for Inexpensive Keys needed Date: 20 Jun 1994 12:07:02 -0600 Organization: University of Denver, Math/CS Dept. Baoness Megan writes: >Medieval locks...now there's something I lust after. Any smiths out there >who want to make me a working reproduction of a 16th century lock for my >house at Pennsic? I will pay cash! I saw a medieval guild strongbox in a museum in Braunschweig (Bunswick) Germany for a locksmith's guild. If I remember aright, it had 16 locks (4 on each side), each of a different style than the others. It was displayed with the top removed, so that you could see the different lock mechanisms from the inside of the box. Truly interesting to see. Mikjal Annarbjorn -- Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields Work: mc307a at sw1stc.sbc.com of St. Vidicon" Play: ab899 at freenet.hsc.colorado.edu mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: swhite at utkvx.utk.edu Subject: RE: Source for Inexspensive Keys needed Organization: University of Tennessee Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 15:23:44 GMT Greetings! > I am looking for an inexpensive source for early appearing keys. They > need not work as they are just for show. I've tried my usual wood > worker/metal working catalogs and found nothing. Please e-mail me any > responces. Thanks ahead of time...Ralph Well, that would depend an awful lot on your definition of inexpensive. Recently, Thor's Mountain obtained a rather unusual key from Dixie Gunworks out of Union City TN. This key was about 11 inches long, 6 inches wide, and about 5 pounds of solid brass (your mileage may vary). The price was in the nieghborhood of 15 dollars and was I think 20 bucks after shipping and handiling. In the catalouge it went under the name of the "Jailors gun key" and was supposed to be a reproduction kit of a match light pistol given to jailors. Needless to say, that Seneschal always had a good grasp of the wieght of his office. Yours in Service, Samildanach From: kellogg at ucssun1.sdsu.edu (kellogg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Crime Prevention ( was Re: Not an Urban Legend) Date: 12 Sep 1994 15:20:14 GMT Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services I wrote: : I don't know about things other than the above, but the Norse : made rather clever locks, both padlock and built in, for chests. One : book I have shows photos and reconstructed line drawings of one of each, : I'll get the bibliographic data and post it tommorow. Here's the data on that book. Eldjarn, Kristjan. _The Viking_. New York: Random House, 1975. ISBN 0-517 44.553-0 Avenel Kellough Regent and Chatelaine for the (newly elevated) College of St. Isidore, Huzzah! Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: bq676 at torfree.net (Kristine E. Maitland) Subject: Combination Locks in Period Organization: Toronto Free-Net Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:34:07 GMT Bona dies, tutti! I was doing some research on period middle eastern garb for dancers when I stumbled on this article that I thought some SCAers may find interesting [as usual I look for one thing and find something else]: Francis Maddison. "Al-Jazari's Combination Lock: Two contemporary examples." in _The Art of Syria and the Jazira, 1100-1250_ ed. Julian Raby (Oxford University Press, 1985) -- Inez Rosanera Kristine Maitland cortigiana,cantana, pariole branch assistant, lyricist, critic Barony of Septentria Toronto, Ontario Principality of Ealdormere Canada From: rmhowe Date: April 28, 2006 1:05:10 AM CDT To: - AncientArtifacts , - Authenticity List , - B of *WH* Forgemonkeys , - BARONY of WINDMASTERS' HILL , - Dunstan , - EKMetalsmiths , - Manx , - Medieval Leather List , - Medieval Sawdust , "- MedievalEncampments at yahoogroups.com" , - SCA-ARTS , - StellarArts Subject: A New Book on Keys, Locks, Small Caskets and Fittings For those of you interested in European Locks and Keys along with many fancy caskets the following is in color: http://www.goetzbuch.de/ Goetz sells books on specific arts like glass, furniture, or painting. There are no problems I know of buying from him. I've done it for years now. All his catalogs are in German though, so I have tried to be specific. He takes credit/debit cards. INFO at GOETZBUCH.DE Look for it under suche [search]: Bookseller number: 47794 Prunkstücke aus der Hanns Schell Collection Schlüssel, Schlösser, Kästchen und Beschläge Pall, Martina 29,80 EUR [A Euro is about $1.25 US.] Pall, Martina: Prunkstücke aus der Hanns Schell Collection: Schlüssel, Schlösser, Kästchen und Beschläge; [Pieces of splendor from the Hanns Schell Collection: Key, locks, small boxes and fittings] Description: Katalogbuch zur Ausstellung in Wien. 21 x 30 cm. Geb. 403 Farbabb. und 25 techn. Zeichnungen. 165 S. Publisher: Graz, 2005, Hardcover, Catalog book to the exhibition in Vienna. 21 x 30 cm. Geb. 403 color pictures. and 25 technical designs. 165 pages. The book itself is in German and English on each page or description. Shows how a number of the locks work from Roman times onward. Also included are some Asian locks. Previously the same collection has had books on cutlery and the cases for it {I didn't buy this one] and one on Caskets. Those were published by Arnoldsche.de and not nearly as reasonably priced as this one. Then again they were larger too. I don't know if it is still available but this is the book on caskets: Berger, Ewald: Prunk-Kassetten, Europaische Meisterwerke aus Acht Jahrhunderten, Ornamental Caskets of Eight Centuries; 1998: Arnoldsche, Stuttgart, cloth, dj, Text in English and German. The Hans Schell Collection, Graz., profuse color & b/w illus., 318 pages, 12 x 10, ornamental caskets / decorative art / metal work / gold boxes. ISBN 3-925369-83-X $110. Bestand katloge der Hanns Schell collection; Bd 1. (to be followed by others on cast iron objects, locks and keys, forged steel objects, and guild emblems.) Pp. 336, approximately 500 illustrations. Berger, Ewald: Ornamental Coffers; Eight Centuries of European Craftsmanship ISBN: 392536983X Arnoldsche Verlaganstalt GmbH, Jan.1999, US 110.00 Master Magnus Malleus, OL, aka R.M. Howe Great Barony of Windmasters Hill, the Manx, Great Dark Horde Edited by Mark S. Harris keys-locks-msg Page 7 of 7