beds-msg - 2/20/08 Medieval and SCA beds. Rope and slat beds. Various mattresses. NOTE: See also the files: brooms-msg, furniture-msg, chairs-msg, decor-sources-msg, candles-msg, candlesticks-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: bdorion at sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Brian Dorion) Subject: Four Poster Beds Organization: University of Waterloo Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 19:28:22 GMT <KGORMAN at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: > NIELSEN at falcon.mayo.EDU writes: >>Speaking of Rialto Party, I am still working on plans to make my pavilion >>even more decadent. Umm, does anyone by any chance have plans or ideas on >>how to make a four-poster bed that breaks down totally and stores fairly >>small-ly? I've got some ideas, but since all my wood-working skills have >>been learned on the fly (and a very small fly it was, too), I'm not sure >>what would work and what wouldn't. > >How bout a rope bed with high ends? I don't know how to make one but Konrad >has one. The rope bed that I have was made by someone else as a platform bed. I used as such for a year, but when the van went, I could no longer haul a 4' x 6' sheet of plywood around so I turned it into a rope bed. The article in the TI is a good starting point for building a rope bed. My bed differs a bit in that the joints are pinned together with wooden dowels. The legs are made of 4x4. The ones at the head of the bed are about 3 feet high and the ones at the foot are about 2 foot high. The sides of the bed are 2" x 6" boards with holes drilled through the center. The end boards are 2" x 4" with holes drilled through the center. The wood work on my bed is all pretty rough, it's not finished at all. If you pavillion is large enough you could put legs on your bed that would extend two to four feet above the mattress and hang misquito netting or drapperies from the top. You could run a rope or use two by two to frame the top of the bed. I transport my bed with a roof rack on a K-car. The longest board is six foot. I am looking at getting a 2-3" futon made to put on the bed. It should be fairly portable and would make the bed pretty decadent. Konrad Matthias Jaeger P.S. Do you have three other posters in mind to share the bed with? From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re:Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: Wed, 18 May 94 09:43:01 EDT Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op Megan here. I sleep on a bed. Well, actually, IN a bed, a shutbed to be precise. It is period in appearance, if not in material. The mattress is a foam mattress with eggcrate overlay for extra softness. I cover it with a white bedsheet, several warm blankets of handspun handwoven wool, and overall a brocaide cloth. My pillow is a feather pillow. I have a window on my right which opens out and up as a shutter. When I am lucky, Ellisif plays her gentle dulcimer beneath my window as I wake. When I am unlucky, some *6x$%&(&x:+$^!!! scot plays wretched bagpipes. (well, actually this only happened once. After what I said to him, I doubt if he'll ever return!) ON the left I have a curtain which is attached to rings that slide on a dowel to close off the 3 foot opening to my bed.At night I close these curtains, and enjoy the warmth of my cosy bed. It also keeps out the flies. Above my bed is a storage loft. I used to have a young apprentice who slept up there. Beneath my bed is another storage area, curtained off so you can't see the refrigerator where I hide my medications... Also, in the bed compartment are shelves. The ones you can see from outside the compartment have period looking containers on them, which hold mundane necessities. The ones you can't see have the bug spray, the matches, the alarm clock, the emergency flashlight. I also hang my hat on a peg on the wall above my feet. OUtside my bed, hanging on the wall, I keep an orinale, like any sensible person. G'night all! BTW, when it rains really hard, I close my window and go back to sleep. Megan == In 1994: Linda Anfuso In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: davis.jim at epamail.epa.gov (Jim Davis) Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 15:30:13 GMT Organization: I don't think so. In article <1994May18.170454.13682 at ns.network.com> mercese at zrp.network.com (Steve E. Mercer) writes: >Some gentles have recently told me that rope beds are historically accurate >sleeping accomodations. Others have stated that rope beds are an entirely >modern creation. Does anyone have any documentation which demonstrates that >rope-mattress beds were used during the SCA time period? Rope beds certainly are period. I suggest you get a copy of: Eames, Penelope. Furniture in England, France, and The Netherlands from the Twelfth to the Fifteenth Century. London:The Furniture History Society, 1977. While there are no surviving rope beds (and thus no pictures), if I recall correctly, Eames lists several from period inventories. -RdG >-Justin Silvanus >-Barony of Nordskogen, Middle Kingdom Richard du Guesclin, Elvegast, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia davis.jim at epamail.epa.gov From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: Wed, 25 May 94 23:42:21 EDT Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op davis.jim at epamail.epa.gov (Jim Davis) writes: > In article <1994May18.170454.13682 at ns.network.com> mercese at zrp.network.com (S > > >Some gentles have recently told me that rope beds are historically accurate > >sleeping accomodations. Others have stated that rope beds are an entirely > >modern creation. Does anyone have any documentation which demonstrates that > >rope-mattress beds were used during the SCA time period? > > Rope beds certainly are period. I suggest you get a copy of: > > Eames, Penelope. Furniture in England, France, and The Netherlands from the > Twelfth to the Fifteenth Century. London:The Furniture History Society, 1977. > > While there are no surviving rope beds (and thus no pictures), if I recall > correctly, Eames lists several from period inventories. -RdG > > >-Justin Silvanus > >-Barony of Nordskogen, Middle Kingdom > > Richard du Guesclin, Elvegast, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia > davis.jim at epamail.epa.gov Megan here... there are paintings of rope beds from the Renaissance in "Italian Interiors of the Renaissance". == In 1994: Linda Anfuso In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: 26 May 1994 07:18:43 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley >davis.jim at epamail.epa.gov (Jim Davis) writes: >> Rope beds certainly are period. I suggest you get a copy of: >> >> Eames, Penelope. Furniture in England, France, and The Netherlands from the >> Twelfth to the Fifteenth Century. London:The Furniture History Society, 1977. >> >> While there are no surviving rope beds (and thus no pictures), if I recall There is a surviving rope bed dated to 1620 at -- I believe -- the Museum of London. (At least it was there back in 1981. I have sketches that I made of it but didn't note clearly which museum I was in at the time.) It's very plain and quite narrow; basically just four square posts and the rails that hold the lacing, plus two braces around floor level between the pairs of posts at head and foot. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: 23 May 1994 08:10:59 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Steve E. Mercer <mercese at zrp.network.com> wrote: > >Some gentles have recently told me that rope beds are historically accurate >sleeping accomodations. Others have stated that rope beds are an entirely >modern creation. Does anyone have any documentation which demonstrates that >rope-mattress beds were used during the SCA time period? > >-Justin Silvanus The earliest extant example of a rope bed that I've seen was dated 1620 -- not quite in period, but certainly within a reasonable margin of error. (I believe this example was in the British Museum -- my notes and sketches are from over a decade ago and aren't entirely clear on that point; it might instead have been the Museum of London.) It's quite simple, with a plain square post at each corner, flush at the top with the side rails, and with a brace just above floor level between the pairs of posts at head and foot. The plainness of the design and lack of ornamentation suggest that this was not some curious innovation, but more likely a traditional middle or possibly even lower class artifact. I haven't been able to find examples in art on a cursory search, but if the rope bed were, in fact, a middle-class style, it would be less likely to be represented there and would probably need a more in depth search to turn up examples. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: 25 May 94 13:46:48 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. >Some gentles have recently told me that rope beds are historically accurate >sleeping accomodations. Others have stated that rope beds are an entirely >modern creation. Does anyone have any documentation which demonstrates that >rope-mattress beds were used during the SCA time period? The Victoria and Albert museum in London has the great bed of Ware. this is a large four poster bed which was mentioned by Shakespear, so it was around and in use then. The bed has turned and carved posts, a carved back, and a very sturdy wooden frame. The original ropes have gone, and the bed is on display without any bedding, but it still looked pretty impressive to me. The Oseberg and Gokstad ship burials (8th and tenth centurys respectively) both had wooden bed frames. These were not four posters but had head posts carved with animal heads, and plainer foot posts. I believe these beds originall had wooden slats for the bases, if anyone is seriously interested I have a copy of the original archaeologists write up on the Gokstad ship (It's called something like "The Viking Ship discovered at Gokstad" and it's by N. Nicolaysem. It was publisged by Alb Cammermeyer & the date was something like 1882, I'd have to check that up to be sure). If anyone wants any more info I can look it up for them. email me at: J.A.Bray at bnr.co.uk but you'll have to write soon because that account is due to be disabled on June 24th when I move jobs. On a different topic can anyone tell me how to subscribe to the digest version of the Rialto? Jennifer/Rannveik Vanaheim Vikings From: mordraut at bga.com (Mordraut Freyulf) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope Bed (was Sleeping at Pennsic ) Date: 26 May 1994 15:18:40 GMT Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Nils Hammer (nh0g+ at andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: : When I went to a museum of the Atocha wreck (1622?) I saw a wooden : fragment that was believed to be from a bedframe. The hole spacing was : approx. 2" then 4" repeated. This suggests to me that it was actually a : strap bed. : I would like to know if anyone has a way for a rope bed to breakdown for : travel without needing to re-thread the ropes. I have given it some thought : based on the folding army cot, but I am not yet satisfied. Instead of using a rope bed, I have a breakdown slat bed, based on Norse design. I use seven slats to support 1/4" plywood, and then add padding. The overall size for the bedding is queensize, and I've had no problems. -- |----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Mordraut Freyulf | So what is a 13th Century Mongol doing | Dark Horde | | mordraut at bga.com | Riding down the Information Superhighway | Moritu | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------| From: s_rodger at acad.lvc.edu (Scott Rodgers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope Bed (was Sleeping at Pennsic ) Date: 26 May 1994 21:34 CDT Organization: Texas A&M University OpenVMScluster In article <2s2ekg$9gj at giga.bga.com>, mordraut at bga.com (Mordraut Freyulf) writes... >Nils Hammer (nh0g+ at andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: >: When I went to a museum of the Atocha wreck (1622?) I saw a wooden *snip* > >: I would like to know if anyone has a way for a rope bed to breakdown for >: travel without needing to re-thread the ropes. I have given it some thought >: based on the folding army cot, but I am not yet satisfied. > *snip* While i was helping some friends set up their camp for the texas ren festival i noticed that they were using a rope bed. The first i'd ever seen, but this was going to be where they slept every weekend for quite a few months. The headboard, and sideboards all had slots in them so that you could slide the rope down into the slot. The rope itself was weeved in such a manner very much like a hammock, or fishing net. After this was done they used some sturdy thread to tie around each point of connection. This way they could simply pull the ropes up off of the framework, and roll it up like a carpet. The legs had grooves in them for the boards to slide down into, and pegholes to secure the boards into the legs. For breaking it down you just had to pull the pegs and lift the boards out. The longest piece was 6ft long, but you could always use tongue and groove construction to split them into 3 foot pieces. I especially liked their bed because it used to nails at all. Occasionally they would have to untie the ends of the rope to take in the slack, since rope stretches. However the ties they used at the joins allowed the rope to play through them easily. If i had an encampment to begin with, i think i might make a rope bed just for the fun of doing it. Humbly, Scott Rodgers (mundane but working on it) From: ddfr at aol.com (DDFr) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope Bed (was Sleeping at Pennsic ) Date: 26 May 1994 22:49:03 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Nils Hammer asks: "I would like to know if anyone has a way for a rope bed to breakdown for travel without needing to re-thread the ropes." Yes. The frame is 2x4's. At each corner, one of them is cut down to about 1 1/2 x 2 and fits through a 1 1/2 x 2 hole in the other. The tension of the ropes holds the whole thing together very tightly--no pegs necessary. To disassemble, you loosen the ropes enough so that you can pull the frame apart, then lay all four frame pieces parallel and together, with the rope still threaded. Tightening when you set up is still a pain, but I haven't relaced in years. David/Cariadoc From: kathy.duffy at buckys.com (Kathy Duffy) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 20:35:00 GMT Organization: Bucky's BBS (609)861-1131 * Dennisville, NJ M>Some gentles have recently told me that rope beds are historically accurate >sleeping accomodations. Others have stated that rope beds are an entirely >modern creation. Does anyone have any documentation which demonstrates that >rope-mattress beds were used during the SCA time period? The Bed of Ware in the British Museum was a rope bed and was famous during the Tudor period. It is immense even by modern standards. From: Lassman at BldgDafoe.Lan1.UManitoba.CA (Linda Lassman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 23:34:56 GMT Organization: University of Manitoba A number of years ago there was an article in TI about period rope beds, with instructions on how to make one. The instructions were clear enough that even I, The Compleat Non-Woodworker, successfully make one. It's still doing good service (although not to me) :-) - Gabriela dei Clementini Barony of Castel Rouge, Midrealm Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: rope beds From: schuldy at zariski.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: 26 May 94 10:53:14 EDT Organization: My own little corner. ALBAN at delphi.COM writes: i tried using a rope bed for a while at pennsic and various other camping events. i switched eventually to a slat bed. trouble i found with rope beds is that the bloody rope kept stretching, which means i'd have to tighten it every couple of days, which gets to be a nuisance. My friend Harald Longfellow made an excellent suggestion as he helped me make my bed. We made a large number of wedges, by cutting 2 x 4 boards diagonally. When the bed rope stretches a little, drive a wedge between the loops of rope around the outside of the bed, and the frame. Tightens right up. I have found that the ropes ease a good bit for a few hours after the bed is first assembled. A good tightening after that is useful. Following that, a few wedges the first night, and perhaps one or two more the following days, will do. Tibor -- Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy at math.harvard.edu) From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Viking Beds Date: 27 May 94 15:02:01 GMT Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208 A gentle asked if Viking beds actually existed in period, or were they simply an SCA invention. They're period. I built my first Viking bed in 1987. I saw a picture, taken in a museum, of a Viking ship. In the background was what appeared to be a Viking bed. I wrote to the Norwegian Embassy in Washington, explaining that I was in the process of building one, I didn't speak Norwegian, and would they please forward a request for more information about the bed to the museum itself. I heard nothing for about three weeks, then JACKPOT!!! I received a 9x12 envelope from the Norwegian Information Service in the US literally stuffed to overflowing. Without exaggeration, it was 3/4 in thick. Photographs of the bed, a chair, tent arches, a chest all from the ship along with the prow of the ship itself. Official Norwegian govt. publications on Viking sculpture, archeological digs of Viking ships, pamphlets of a Viking Art exhibition, postcards from the museum, etc. etc. etc. Hours of reading material, it was wonderful! Perfect documentation. They also included a letter stating that the museum staff could handle correspondence in English and would be happy to answer any further questions. The addresses: Norwegian Information Service, 825 Third Avenue, New York NY 10022-7584 Viking Ships Museum, 35 Huk Avenue 35, Oslo Norway 0287 - Dagonell SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr Habitat : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony Internet : salley at niktow.cs.canisius.edu USnail-net : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com (Jason Magnus) Subject: Re: Rope beds Organization: The Polyhedron Group Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 20:37:12 GMT In article <9406171318.AA23372 at roym.batdd1.pica.army.mil>, mortonr at pica.ARmy.MIL wrote: > I've been scanning through some of my old extracts from the > Rialto and came across a description of a rope bed. The description > is as follows: > > A 4' X 6-1/2 ' frame of 2X6 boards, held at the corners by > 4" door hinges and supported by 4 1-1/2' 2X6 legs bolted to the frame. > 3/4" holes are drilled every 6" around the frame to thread the rope > through. Sounds like a reasonable, functional design. It's inexpensive, and easily made by a novice. It also provides a good starting point for far better designs, using better joinery and materials, for those of us who are woodworkers. Thanks for sharing it with us. I think you have just inspired me to try my hand at making an improved, more period-looking version. I have seen several similar rope beds in West Kingdom and in An Tir. Allowing for the modern materials and fastening devices, the concept isn't all that different from some period beds that I've studied in my quest for period furniture designs. I will add to your specs that the rope used should be a type that is strong, abrasion-resistant, and doesn't easily streach. Something that holds knots well is a darned good idea too :-) (which disallows most polypropylene rope). > Questions: Is there any special recommended way of threading the > rope? Yes. Lengthwise first, then width-wise. > Do you just tie a knot at one end, run the rope back and > forth and then tye a knot in the other end? Basicly, yes. Start with a knot on the outside, in the foot-board close to one leg. Go to the other end, out the corresponding hole and back in through the next one away from the leg. Repeat until you run out of end holes. At the last end hole, go around the outside of the frame to the nearest hole on a long side. (This is a good point to pause and tighten the ropes so far.) Then continue weaving the width-wise part. When you get to the end, a 'tinber hitch' or a series of half-hitches around the side frame or the leg secures the end. This is -much- easier to untie later, and to adjust as you tighten the ropes. It also allows you something to do with the slack rope that is hanging out of the hole after you tighten it all up. You may also want to consider tying a timber hitch at the starting point, so you can tighten in both directions. I've seen it done either way. > Do you interlace > (weave) the lengthwise and widthwise ropes? It's best if you do, because it yields a flatter surface. But it works OK if you lay the width-wise ropes on top of the others, or if you alternate with one over all then one under all. > Do you use one long > length of rope or different ropes for the length and the width? Either, as you choose. Two ropes allows independent tensioning. One rope is less wasteful and more common. > Is there any special design needed for the key? What key? If you mean a tensioning device, you just pull it tight and timber-hitch it. > The legs are described as being bolted on 1 ' from the > ends of the long side. Does this mean that a 3/4" hole should > be bored through them and the leg centered over the rope hole, > or that the 2X6 should be cut down to a 2X5 and placed between > rope holes? It can go either way. Remember that a '2x6' has an actual measurement of 1.5" x 5.25", so it won't obstruct the holes much. if you find that it does, notch the sides of the legs. Some refinements: Period rope beds have a groove for the rope in the outer surface of the rails, making it less likely to catch on things. Since you'll be pulling the rope tight, it will be abrading where it contacts the side of the holes that it bends toward. Radius this edge of each hole with a rat-tail file to minimize wear on the rope. Consider a more sturdy method of joining the legs, rather than hinges. The hinges will get loose and wobbly rather soon. The fittings used to attach wooden bed rails to headboards work better, though they take more work. A metal plate with two hooks on it is attached to the end of all rails. Matching metal plates with two slots in them are attached to the legs. I used this technique to make a bed before, and it was quite stable and strong. I used 18-inch 4x4's for the legs. -- Regards, Jason Magnus (aka Jay Brandt) <rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com> In the SCA, HLS Jason of Rosaria, JdL, GdS, AoA (Member # 3016) Designer / Craftsman : Bear Paw Woodworks From: Alberic6 <alberic6 at delphi.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 22:18:08 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info at delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Greetings all, In regards to the previous discussion on rope beds, I've used one at Pennsic for the last 6 years, and have been tinkering with it on-&-off for most of that time. The two things I'm currently playing with are putting a turnkey on every loop, and possibly using cleats instead of holes. The turnkey idea sounds like a lot of work, but I think it will make it easier to get the thing decently tight. The other idea was that instead of threading the whole line *through* holes, why not pass them *around* cleats? It would make it infinitely faster to set up, and if I can think of any way to do it that will still let me turnkey it, I suspect I will. (The longest part of setting it up is threading it....1hr usually.) One neat idea I saw once was having a bed that hinged in the middle so it could be folded up and stowed on a roof-rack, then taken down, opened As to the type of line, my preference is for something *braided* and not a standard cable twist. Reason being that the twisted line tends to come undone when being turnkeyed, while the braided stuff doesn't. Later- Alberic (Better camping through high-tech medievalism....) From: mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu (M Straatmann) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds Date: 20 Jun 1994 13:22:55 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln In article <BqwxISQ.alberic6 at delphi.com> Alberic6 <alberic6 at delphi.com> writes: : >The two things I'm currently playing with are putting a turnkey on every loop, : >and possibly using cleats instead of holes. : >The turnkey idea sounds like a lot of work, but I think it will make it easier : >to get the thing decently tight. : >The other idea was that instead of threading the whole line *through* holes, : >why not pass them *around* cleats? It would make it infinitely faster to : >set up, and if I can think of any way to do it that will still let me : >turnkey it, I suspect I will. Having just finished testing my new rope bed at Lillies <grin!>; I found that a cleat used at the end of a rope makes tightening easier. I used two ropes, one across, one back and forth, and when I had tightened it, I simply wound it around the cleat. Much easier for knot-impaired people like myself. mikhail, calontir ********Michael Straatmann**********mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu********** Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: MCNUTT at gateway.ce.utk.edu (Bill McNutt) Subject: Re: Rope beds Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 14:28:05 GMT In article <keeganCrq5yv.LJo at netcom.com> keegan at netcom.com (Tim Bray/C. Keegan) writes: >Bill McNutt (MCNUTT at gateway.ce.utk.edu) wrote: >: My first thought was "All those cleats would catch on everything in the van, >: making it a bitch to load and unload. But if you were to double-knotch the >: under-side of the boards, essentially making wooden cleats... >Will the cleats hold up to the high stresses and general abuse? And if >they are on the underside of the boards, how do they stay in place when >you lie on the bed? (Or do other things on it...) You bring the rope over the top of the side runner, down to the cleat, and back over the top. I'll scan in a gif for anyone who wants to see it, if it works. We're gonna find out. I revved up the ol' router this weekend, and I should have the beds finished in time for Border Raids this weekend. (Good thing, too. I'm too old to be sleepin' on the ground.) It takes a long time to make mortise and tenon joints, even with power tools. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: keegan at netcom.com (Tim Bray/C. Keegan) Subject: Re: Rope beds Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 01:52:49 GMT Jason Magnus (rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com) wrote: : Consider a more sturdy method of joining the legs, rather than hinges. The : hinges will get loose and wobbly rather soon. The fittings used to attach : wooden bed rails to headboards work better, though they take more work. A : metal plate with two hooks on it is attached to the end of all rails. : Matching metal plates with two slots in them are attached to the legs. I : used this technique to make a bed before, and it was quite stable and : strong. I used 18-inch 4x4's for the legs. Our bed was made for us by my squire some years ago. Instead of fasteners to hold the rails to the legs, which as you correctly pointed out will get wobbly over time, he chopped large mortises in the tops of the 4x4 legs and cut tenons on the ends of the rails. The tenons were haunched rather than shouldered, i.e. the tenon was formed by cutting away half of the width of the board at the end; the tenons were 3-1/2 inches long so they were flush with the outside of the legs. The mortises are cut such that one tenon fits over the other, in such a way theat the rails are level with each other. (Is any of this making sense? How I wish I could simply show you a picture!) From this description you may have noticed no means of holding the joint together. The joint is in fact loose and wobbly, until you tighten the ropes, at which point the bed hold itself together. It really works, you can toss & turn all you want. (Or whatever.) The only problem that developed shortly after the beds were put into uses, is that the mortises were too large and weakened the 4x4s too much, and the joints began to crack & split. This was repaired by drilling and inserting long lag-screws through the weak parts. Inelegant, but functional, and hidden after it's done. If you used 6x6 instead, it might be strong enough. Or if you used oak, or cut smaller mortises, etc. This concept could undoubtedly be developed further to yield a nearly authentic design that holds up to repeated assembly and (more destructive) disassembly. Period beds were assembled with pegged mortise-and-tenon joints (as were almost everything else) that aren't really amenable to knockdown use. Tusk-tenons are period and work really well for knockdown joinery, but I haven't worked out how to design a joint to use them in this application. Regards, Tim From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds Date: 21 Jun 1994 03:11:18 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Tim Bray/C. Keegan (keegan at netcom.com) wrote: : Our bed was made for us by my squire some years ago. Instead of : fasteners to hold the rails to the legs, which as you correctly pointed : out will get wobbly over time, he chopped large mortises in the tops of : the 4x4 legs and cut tenons on the ends of the rails. The tenons were : haunched rather than shouldered, i.e. the tenon was formed by cutting : away half of the width of the board at the end; the tenons were 3-1/2 : inches long so they were flush with the outside of the legs. The : mortises are cut such that one tenon fits over the other, in such a way : theat the rails are level with each other. (Is any of this making : sense? How I wish I could simply show you a picture!) : From this description you may have noticed no means of holding the joint : together. The joint is in fact loose and wobbly, until you tighten the : ropes, at which point the bed hold itself together. It really works, you : can toss & turn all you want. (Or whatever.) Then you add to this something that I came up with for my own rope-bed. you use two ropes -- one for each direction. And when you lace it up the first time, you leave enough extra length at the end of the rope as the number of lacing holes times the length of a tenon. Then, at the end of the event, you _loosen_ the rope but don't actually unstring it. You now have enough slack to slide the tenons out of the corner posts (one end at a time). There is also enough slack in the rope now that you can collapse the laced-up part into a bundle no longer than the longer of a) the side bar; or b) 2x the end bar. When you set the bed up, you just tighten the lacing after fitting the corner posts on. You _don't_ have to thread and weave the ropes, which is by far the most annoying part. And what's more, you have a physical frame that is about as close to the period frames I've seen as you can get and still be able to take the thing apart. I came up with something more complicated, more annoying, more fragile, and less authentic than the above system and now wish I hadn't. I also find that I have no problem whatever with having the ropes sag during the course of an event, so I don't know what I'm doing differently from the people who are making such a fuss about the hassle of tightening ropes. I'm using an ordinary, twisted, natural-fiber rope and just tie it off with a couple of half-hitches. Over a three-day event there is no noticable sag. I haven't tried it for a week at a time, but I can't see having to tighten it more than once at the most -- if at all. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn From: mortonr at pica.ARmy.MIL Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Rope Beds Date: 22 Jun 1994 09:55:04 -0400 Greetings to all on the Rialto! First, let me just say Thankyouthankyouthankyou to everyone who responded to my rope bed post. Secondly, on the subject of cleats catching on things, has anyone thought about a cap-bar? You know, a piece that runs the length of the piece bridging all the cleats. I'm not sure how it would attatch, but it could be made simply by cutting a piece 1/2" wide from the edge of the board before cutting the cleats. Does this make any sense? -Malcolm From: Alberic6 <alberic6 at delphi.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 09:27:22 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info at delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Greetings again; On the subject of rope bed joints, (No, I can't extract....long live delphi...) My old and much modified rope bed seems to work pretty well with the following system. When I built it, I used 2"x6" nominal lumber, and devided that along the tall face into three equal sections. For the sides, I cut out the centre section 1 unit tall, and 1.625" deep. (thickness of boards) for the ends, I then cut out the top and bottom sections to equal depth, so a sort of Tab A/groove B system existed. When I assemble it, I just stick the tongues into the grooves/notches in the end boards and the tension of the ropes holds it all together. In 6 years, that's about the only thing that *hasn't* been modified on that bed, at least once. It has never had a problem with wanting to become some shape other than a rectangle. (Imagine if it suddenly took a thought to becoming a.... ?trapezoid? in the middle of the night...) The advantage to that system is that I have two sets of end boards for different events. 4.5 foot wide bed for my Lady & I at Pennsic, or just 3 feet for me at other events. Oh, one last note: To whoever mentioned the idea about threading the rope through little eyelets or something inside the frame without actually putting the lines *through* the frame, I tried that about 2 years ago... didn't seem to work all that well, and it didn't really speed it up all that much. (yes, it really *does* take an hour to thread...I've timed it.) Although if someone really wants to try that, I've got a few ideas that might improve over what I had. (the best plan? learn from someone *elses* mistakes....) regards, Alberic. From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds Date: 22 Jun 1994 18:30:11 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Jason Magnus (rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com) wrote: : Heather: : > Then you add to this something that I came up with for my own rope-bed. : > you use two ropes -- one for each direction. And when you lace it up the : > first time, you leave enough extra length at the end of the rope as the : > number of lacing holes times the length of a tenon. Then, at the end of : > the event, you _loosen_ the rope but don't actually unstring it. You now : > have enough slack to slide the tenons out of the corner posts (one end at : > a time). There is also enough slack in the rope now that you can collapse : > the laced-up part into a bundle no longer than the longer of a) the side : > bar; or b) 2x the end bar. When you set the bed up, you just tighten the : I like that idea. But is your bed square? That would allow you to fold the : frame diagonally once the legs are removed, and then collapse it to the : length of one rail. If it's rectangular though, wouldn't the collapsed : bundle be the length of a side rail -plus- the length of an end rail? No, the bed is 4' x 6'. The lacing is loose enough to allow some play in the collapsing. Let's see if I can diagram it out: | = board (x) = matching corners (1) (1) (2) | | | | | | | (2) | | (3) | | | | (3) | (4) (4) Trust me; it works. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn From: Charly.The.Bastard at f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Charly The Bastard) Date: 22 Jun 94 16:28:24 -0500 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds Organization: Fidonet: In the distance...Vanishing Point After you build your Viking Bed, run out to the lumberyard and get some 1/2" plywood and make a panel to fit inside the frame, about 6" smaller than the inside dimensions and lay it on top of the rope netting. this spreads the load over all the ropes right up by the frame rails and prevents the dreaded 'Bjornsag factor' that you get when your weight is carried by only a few strands in the middle. I tip the scales at two hundredweight, and my bed is damn near sagproof. Just a thought... --------- Fidonet: Charly The Bastard 1:147/1077 Internet: Charly.The.Bastard at f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org From: haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Tusk-tennons Date: 29 Jun 1994 01:12:15 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Greetings from Fiacha, I built a workable tusk tenon joint for this application but in birch and ash rather than 2x6 and 4x4 lumber. However, it should still work. Top view - L = Leg, S = side rail, E = end rail, each letter = 1"x1" LLLL EEELLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEELLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LLLL SS SS Bed Area SS ^ Pin goes sideways through tusk in end rail Side View LLLL LLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LEELSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LEELSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LLLL LLLL LLLL Adjust for height End View LLLL EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSLL EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSLL EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSLLEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSLLEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSLL EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSLL LLLL LLLL LLLL Decomposed Top LLLL SS LLLL SS EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LLLL SS EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LLLL SS SS SS SS Side LLLL LLLL EE SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LLLL EE SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS L L EE S SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS L L EE S SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LLLL EE SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LLLL EE SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS LLLL LLLL LLLL End LLLL EEEEEEEE SS LL EEEEEEEE SS LL EEEEEEEEEEEEE SS LL EEEEEEEEEEEEE SS LL EEEEEEEE ^ SS LL EEEEEEEE | SS LL | LLLL Make hole for pin here LLLL LLLL This assumes 2x6 lumber for the rails and 4x4 lumber for the legs. An alternative assembly would spin the legs to the inside of the side rails and let the short ropes squash the legs between the side rails and the end rails. The next step is to make the head legs tall enough to support a head board. Alternatively, fit poles into the tops of the legs and add fabric to covert it into a fourposter. Using the post to simply support a mosquito net might be preferred but I want the extra insulation of a heavier fabric. Fiacha From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: 17 May 1994 01:22:26 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <1994May15.230432.7408 at ucbeh>, <laityna at ucbeh.san.uc.edu> wrote: >about getting off the ground while sleeping at Pennsic... > >If you really want to sleep in comfort and warmth, may I suggest the Therm a >Rest air mattress available at sporting goods stores (unless of course, you > >Tangwystel vyrgh Gwythenek If I may venture a different opinion, if you _really_ want to sleep in comfort and warmth, I have not yet found anything to beat my own furniture: a rope-mattress bed (I've even gotten around the problem of lacing and unlacing for every set-up), padded with a sheep-skin sheet, a feather-bed upon that, made up with sheets of linen, and to cover it another feather bed. One of the major advantages of an actual bed-stead is that you needn't worry about the ground being a bit muddy. The above may sound a bit elaborate, but I put the bed-frame together myself with about $20 worth of lumber, the feather-beds are ones I use at home, so I didn't buy anything special, the sheep-skin blanket was a bit of a find, but isn't really essential -- any heavy blanket that supports the feather-bed will do. I've slept in this arrangement and woken up warm and toasty at Estrella on mornings when the first order of business was to break the ice in the water bucket. And best of all -- it's historcally authentic. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re:Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: 16 May 1994 13:05:17 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana We do a lot of camping (well, maybe less of it this year if the season is as rainy as last year), and we have come up with three good bedding methods, which we use according to what we remember and bring. Straw is excellent for your bedding. Make yourself a nest and put down a bunch of blankets and furs, and you have yourself a comfortable, adjustable and warm bed. Drawbacks: allergies, bugs and clean-up (spread a garbage bag beneath the straw to help you pack it away when you decamp; alternatively, some sites we've dealt with like you merely to kick it and spread it out over the site). Benefits: if it gets damp and muddy, you don't have to take it home. We have an air mattress that we often use. We use a survival blanket (you know, that silver uncomfortable thing that is supposed to reflect heat back at you; it works, since we used one on our waterbed and didn't realize for several days that our heater had broken) on top of the mattress, followed by the blankets, etc. Drawbacks: they *always* leak, usually develop holes after a while and need to be reinflated regularly at lengthy encampments. Benefits: comfort. Finally, we have a pair of ridge rests: compressed foam, done with little designs to help circulation beneath you. They keep you up off the ground and keep you warm. Unfortunately, not very high off the ground, so if you're camping in a swamp (such as the time we had like four inches of rain in our tent--and we were the *lucky* ones) you're gonna get wet. Benefits: easy to pack, easy to maintain, insulates. Drawbacks: not much of a cushion; my wife uses an additional foam mat (like you used in kindergarten for naptime) on her side of the bed. You will notice that we do not use sleeping bags. We haven't for years. A bunch of nice wool blankets are much more versatile and have served us extremely well. Hope to see people at Pennsic. We'll be at the usual spot most probably. Yrs, Folo -- Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA) From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: 17 May 1994 01:53:29 GMT Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto Last year I slept wrapped in a blanket without benefit of tent nor mattress. One night on the deck by the lagoon behind the bath-house, and one in the E-ground courtesy of Ilaine. It was interesting to do Pennsic with only the supplies I could carry on my back. I recommend it as a good lesson in perspective. For two nights. Cheers, Aryk Nusbacher From: davis at aur.alcatel.com (Alan Davis) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re:Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: 16 May 1994 16:29:21 GMT Organization: Alcatel Network Systems, Inc. ... > >Straw is excellent for your bedding. Make yourself a nest and ... > >We have an air mattress that we often use. We use a survival ... > >Finally, we have a pair of ridge rests: compressed foam, > >Yrs, Folo >-- >Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org >Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA) The most comfortable Pennsic I've had was the year that I splurged and went Campaign style : 9x15 pavillion, slat bed, camp chairs, trestle table, chests, etc. I used a woven grass mat over the ground tarp. It was a rainy year and except for a slight trickle that ended about 2' from the door one day when I left it open, it was dry and comfy. Pavillions have the added advantage of staying MUCH cooler than 'modern' tents, I could sleep till noon w/o baking. Specifically the bed : $30 worth of lumber and minor hardware and about an hours work with a saw and router makes a portable slat bed frame. The slats are attached to 2 strips of hemp-like webbing and roll up. The sides and ends slot together w/o fasteners. Put a futon on top and you are as comfortable as at home. There is storage space under the bed for items you don't need quick access to. --- Alan Davis davis at aur.alcatel.com | Employed by, but not CAD Specialist | speaking for Alcatel Alcatel Network Systems Raleigh, NC, USA | Network Systems. From: odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds and other means of not sleeping on the ground Date: 20 Oct 1994 05:10:42 GMT Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team (We're Trained Professionals) [What do you sleep on at Pennsic?] My solution to the problem of cold ground and flat air-mattresses may not be suitable for everyone, but it works well for me and my subaru station- wagon. I bought a futon (full-sized) that has a two piece frame [It turns into a nice couch occasionally ;) ]. The frame, its two pieces fit together compactly, get tied to the roof-rack and the mattress goes into the back on top of all my other gear boxes. There's enough airspace left over it for me to (a) see out, and (b) sleep on it on my way to and from Pennsic. Not for everyone, I admit, but it serves my purposes and adds that extra bit of decadance to my "palace" ["That's nicer -- and bigger -- than my apartment," was a frequent phrase uttered by visitors. It's still not as period as I'd like, but I'm working on it]. -Iain, Decadant Pursuivant ------------------------- Iain Odlin, odlin at reed.edu ------------------------- 42 Clifton Street, Portland ME 04101 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) Subject: Re: Rope beds and other means of not sleeping on the ground Organization: University of Chicago Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 02:17:10 GMT Elizabeth and I used a rope bed for years, but were never entirely happy with it. This Pennsic I made a slat bed (a mortress-and-tenon peg together four poster) for our four year old daughter, and liked it so much I made a full size one for us. It worked very nicely. It is easier to set up than the rope bed because you do not have the problem of tightening the ropes, and it has much less sag. The railings, which I thought were for a canopy and curtains (which I did not make), are very convenient as a place to put damp clothes when you take them off, hang up my purse and belt when I am sleeping, and similar purposes. Incidentally, both the rope bed and the slat bed used a futon as the mattress. David/Cariadoc From: ifdz176 at utxsvs.cc.utexas.edu (Amanda Shields- Queen of the Smurfs) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds and other means of not sleeping on the ground Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 01:08:23 -0600 Organization: University of Texas at Austin M'lady, I feel I must warn you of a potential hazard of rope beds. Now, I have had no _experience_ with this phenomenon (at least not in a rope bed :)), but I have heard reports of the noise such beds make, especially under _ahem_ certain conditions. I would take that into consideration if I were you, as a precaution in case there be smalls in the adjoining encampment. Anne Margarethe (Anagret) von Bayern Collegium Turris Animarum Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra From: randally at aol.com (RandallY) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds and other means of not sleeping on the ground Date: 20 Oct 1994 09:16:03 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) In article <ifdz176-201094010823 at smf-f6.facsmf.utexas.edu>, ifdz176 at utxsvs.cc.utexas.edu (Amanda Shields- Queen of the Smurfs) writes: >I have heard reports of the noise such beds make, especially under >_ahem_ certain conditions. Having made and "used" my own rope bed, I will attest to Amanda's response. (And my wife and I were sharing our divided tent with another couple!) Oh well. Pay heed, it is advise well given! From: paulb at saturn.uark.edu (Paul A. Byers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rope beds and other means of not sleeping on the ground Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 14:11:30 Organization: University of Arkansas In article <38jski$mcm at crcnis1.unl.edu> tmyers at unlinfo.unl.edu (tim myers) writes: >I would think that the most important aspect of the rope would be whether >it stretched or not. A rope that stretches would make a rope bed basically >a hammock in an enclosing frame. Thats why I when to a breakdown platform bed. At 250+ (never you mind how much +) By the time I got a frame strong enough and enough rope its was cheaper and easier to pack a platform bed. Pavel Calontir From: jtn at cse.uconn.EDU (J. Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Need Pennsic Info - bring camper? Date: 27 Apr 1995 13:31:22 -0400 Organization: The Internet Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Chris Faubert writes about what to sleep on at Pennsic: > This is a big issue. I am less inclined toward her using what we usually > use (a blow-up matteress) for a variety of reasons, most notably that she > would have to kneel, crouch etc to get in and out and that the thing is a > moisture magnet. Too many nights we slept in a damp bed. But what to do > for a economical alternative?? I have seen Don Danulf's bed (a hand-made > rope affair) and while I admire it greatelt, it's one more bulky thing to > bring to the war. That and you have to constantly adjust the ropes (I > think). A camp cot was an idea but we've looked at what's available from > Sears and other sporting goods stores and they are really flimsy. Mostly > aluminium and thin canvas. My lord and I, being both large, and these days creaky in the joints, faced this issue a couple of years back. After some research, I realized that I was looking for a period solution to a modern problem: medieval travellers did not have to worry about fitting a bed into a Toyota, along with two weeks' gear. So we started looking for cheap modern solutions. The inspiration for what follows, is the way the platforms that hold up really cheap old-style waterbeds are made. It's simple, it's cheap, and it works; you may find it helpful. Take some plywood. Cut it into strips: at least two and up to four of the length of your bed, ditto of the width, and all as wide as you want your bed to be high. Notch them so that you can set the long pieces on edge with the notches up, and slide the shorter ones in across them to lock into a frame. Then cut a couple of sheets each to be the length of your bed and half the width. Slap them on top of the frame, and voila, you have a platform on which to put a futon (or for that matter, an air mattress). BTW: many people complain of damp bedding. I have found that the usual problem is dew, which collects (yes, inside tents) at around sundown. I bring an extra sheet to put overtop of all bedding during the day, to act as a dewcatcher. At night, I peel the damp sheet of, and we go to bed in dry bedding. The same principle can be used to help keep clothing dryer. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: SADV153 at uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Need Pennsic Info - bring camper? Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 08:28:41 CDT Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham jtn at cse.uconn.EDU (J. Terry Nutter) writes: ->Take some plywood. Cut it into strips: at least two and up to four of the ->length of your bed, ditto of the width, and all as wide as you want your ->bed to be high. Notch them so that you can set the long pieces on edge ->with the notches up, and slide the shorter ones in across them to lock into ->a frame. Then cut a couple of sheets each to be the length of your bed ->and half the width. Slap them on top of the frame, and voila, you have a ->platform on which to put a futon (or for that matter, an air mattress). -> ->BTW: many people complain of damp bedding. I have found that the usual ->problem is dew, which collects (yes, inside tents) at around sundown. I ->bring an extra sheet to put overtop of all bedding during the day, to act ->as a dewcatcher. At night, I peel the damp sheet of, and we go to bed in ->dry bedding. -> ->The same principle can be used to help keep clothing dryer. This works. We also used a futon raised on a platform (really makeshift...we took two flat wooden boxes that we happened to have on hand, put a piece of plywood on top of them, and the futon on top of that), and it stayed dry and comfortable. We also covered our bedding every day with plastic sheeting, which we hid under an extra sheet or a couple of cloaks for aesthetics. We never had a problem with damp bedding. (Damp everything else, yes, but *not* damp bedding!) Jamelyn From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Need Pennsic Info - bring camper? Date: 28 Apr 1995 10:25:47 -0400 Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science A firm believer in the advantages of decadence during long camps; our bed was built into the post&beam frame of our tent. it was fairly high off the ground, 30"? and used slats to support our futon. As to dampness: we covered it with a "flokati" (sp), which is essentially ax8' "woven" fleece, (think of a fairly coarse very long staple sheepskin made without killing the sheep for its hide) I never noticed dampness and if I sometimes dreamed of being asked to recant whilst being "pressed" twas doubtless due to the effects of green mead..... BTW our tent was 8x12" had a raised floor and the height at the top of the wall was 6', ridgepole was 10'. It cost us about $100 and will be in use for many Pennsics to come; though I do tinker with the frame a lot. Dry, comfortable, warm or cool as needed, (can raise the wall cloths); well worth the effort to build it. wilelm the smith who will probably use his smaller "viking condo" this year since his wife will not be attending, (8'x9', 3' wall 10" ridgepole, it cost $30 to make) From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Mounts for a knight Date: 29 Aug 1995 16:59:43 -0400 Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science >>"they were shorter in those days weren't they" > >Yes, I have some offhand confirmation of this fact >I had the opportunity to see the Mannerheim museum in Helsinki, >where peices of Medevil (?) furniture where on display. Some adult-sized >beds of the day were scarce five feet long. The carriage overheads where >also coresponsively lowered. It may not be documented proof, but I hope >it helps. >Vanyev Betzina of Kumpania Kaldaresh Vanyev; I too have seen short beds in several museums in Europe and America. I have also seen documentation that they were used "sitting up" due to a belief that sleeping lying down was injurous to one's health. (I have also seen beds that were gigantic and did not decide that medieval folk were 8'+) I would not accept this as offhand confirmation. But if you are ever in the low countries, visit Muiderslot, (near Naarden). wilelm the smith who has a 8' bed at Pennsic because it is built into the frame of an 8' wide tent. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Mounts for a knight From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 12:28:21 EDT vanyevbtz at aol.com (Vanyev Btz) writes: > in response to your earlier message > > >"they were shorter in those days weren't they" > > Yes, I have some offhand confirmation of this fact > I had the opportunity to see the Mannerheim museum in Helsinki, > where peices of Medevil (?) furniture where on display. Some adult-sized > beds of the day were scarce five feet long. The carriage overheads where > also coresponsively lowered. It may not be documented proof, but I hope > it helps. > > Vanyev Betzina of Kumpania Kaldaresh (and King of the Gypsies.. although > of which Gypsies I am still uncertain....) Respected friends: Most beds were shorter in Northern Europe for a very simple reason: people usually slept partially sitting up. (If you've ever lived through a bad sinus attack without medication, you know why.) Shorter carriages may have an equally simple solution; people weren't clearing roads as well as they did later. More lower branches, more opportunities for a high carriage to come to grief... I don't know if it's _the_ reason, but it might be one of them. }:-> Yours in service to the Society- (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F. Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA Una Wicca (That Pict) From: Patsy Dunham <Patsy.R.Dunham at CI.Eugene.OR.US> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Tents Date: 26 Aug 1996 16:33:12 GMT Organization: City of Eugene, Eugene OR USA brettwi at ix.netcom.com(Brett Williams) wrote: > (snip) >The tourney bed served me as my bed for more than ten years until its >retirement. I personally am not fond of rope beds as the rope tends to >stretch during the night, rolling both occupants to the center...ick. I >make no pretensions as to its period-ish nature (it has none), but >under all its dressing one cannot see the bed itself. Tolerable. > >ciorstan At that, it (slotted plywood pieces) may have more pretensions to period-ness than rope, depending on _your_ period. We have been using a mortise-and-tenon peg-thru Norse bedframe for about the last 12 years. Based on the bedstead from the Oseberg (I think-- the freestanding one you usually see in the books.) (The camp bed finally became the camp bed only when himself finished an oak version (for home) just before 3YC). It breaks down into pieces the largest of which are either the 7' 1x12 side rails, or the 4x4" x30" foot posts, or the 52" 1x18" headboard, all the other pieces are smaller than those, including the carved headposts. Himself (the woodworker) gnashes his teeth every time rope-strung beds come up... his feeling (based on research I'm not very familiar with) is that the common use of rope "mattresses" is probably considerably out-of-period, more like the period of Colonial America. Chimene (I expect we'll have pictures of the bed available on the homepages soon, the scanner arrived this weekend) http://users.aol.com/gerekr/Ravensgard.html [Submitted by: Donna Hrynkiw <donna at Kwantlen.BC.CA>] Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:51:28 -0000 From: "J.D. Ray" <tailored at sns-access.com> Cc: steps at antir.sca.org Subject: Slat bed (very long) Valen here: At home we have a slat bed that m'lady and I purchased supplies for, designed, and constructed all in a few hours one evening. As you can imagine, the workmanship isn't top notch, but I don't mind showing it to people. I guess that puts it "somewhere in the middle" of quality. I tried to do an ASCII drawing of the thing, but it didn't work out. Lend me your imaginations for a second (scratch paper is allowed)... Take a couple of 2x4s (really 1.5" by 3.5") that were the same length as our mattress and attached 1x6 (.75" by 5.5") pine boards to them in such a fashion that .5" of the pine board stuck out to one side of the 2x4 and 1.5" stuck out the other side: ####### <-- 2x4 ########### <-- 1x6 Stand the two of these assemblied up (flip one over and end-for-end) so that the .5" lip is sticking up and the 2x4s are facing each other. These are the sideboards. Next, cut two 2x4s the same length that your mattress is wide. These will be the legs of the bed. Stand them on edge and cut notches in the top of each end that are 1.5" by 1.5" to form a sort of an L: ********************* Top edge ********************* ******************** ******************************** ******************************* ****************************** ******************************* ******************************** With the legs about half the distance apart that the mattress is long, set the sideboards into the notches so that 1/4 of the length of the sideboard is on either side of each leg. That doesn't sound right, but you'll probably get the picture. Top view attempt: | | | | | | |############################### | | | | | | | | | | | |############################### | | | | | | | Next, cut another 2x4 that is the same length as the sideboards. Lay it up against one of the sideboards and mark it on either side of the legs. These marks should be