n-Lat-mottoes-msg - 3/25/11

non-Latin mottoes.

NOTE: See also the files: mottoes1-msg, mottoes2-msg, banners-msg, Ital-Phrases-art, Latin-msg, languages-msg, literacy-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: James Pratt <cathal at mindspring.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mottos: Must they be latin?
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:27:56 GMT

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:45:08 -0500, Cynthia Virtue
<cvirtue at thibault.org> wrote:
>I see so many requests for latin translations -- surely mottos don't 
>have to be in latin to be historically valid?
>
>cv

	If such is the case, then King John of Bohemia, Edward the
Black Prince and all of the subsequent Princes of Wales who used the
motto: "Ich Dien"  obviously missed the memo.  Likewise the holders of
the Order of the Garter with their: "Honi soit qui mal y pense" must
really feel aggrieved for their social lapse.

	Latin was the more commonly understood language across
national boundaries; hence its common use for a motto is reasonable in
that utility.  It was also a language in which, if one sought the use
of cant or a memorial, the meaning would be readily discernable to the
generally educated or the member of a social caste equal or one
aspiring to that of the bearer.  The modern jingo-isms of trademarks
and their quest for easy recognition follow essentially the same path.

Cathal
 
(whose motto is: Na sir 's na seachain an cath.)


From: "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott at csuohio.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mottos: Must they be latin?
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:29:29 -0500

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:27:56 GMT James Pratt
<cathal at mindspring.com> wrote in rec.org.sca:

> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:45:08 -0500, Cynthia Virtue
> <cvirtue at thibault.org> wrote:

>>I see so many requests for latin translations -- surely mottos don't 
>>have to be in latin to be historically valid?

> 	If such is the case, then King John of Bohemia, Edward the
> Black Prince and all of the subsequent Princes of Wales who used the
> motto: "Ich Dien"  obviously missed the memo.  Likewise the holders of
> the Order of the Garter with their: "Honi soit qui mal y pense" must
> really feel aggrieved for their social lapse.

To which I will add: 'Fais ce que dois advienne que
pourra!', used by a score or so of European families; 'A
tout venant, beau jeu', used by the house of Beaujeu; 'Bois
ton sang, Beaumanoir, ta soif passera', used by the
Beaumanoirs; 'Moult me tarde', used by Philippe le Hardi;
'Je le tiens', used by Jean sans Peur; 'Aultre n'auray',
used by Philippe le Bon; 'Je l'ay emprins', used by Charles
le Téméraire; and 'Dieu aide au premier baron chrétien!',
used by Anne de Montmorency, all given by Michel Pastoureau
in his Traité d'Héraldique.

In England Woodcock & Robinson, The Oxford Guide to
Heraldry, mention the motto 'Dieu Veulant Je Feray' in a
1552/3 grant to William Bromefeyld.

And that's not even mentioning war-cries.

[...]

Brian


From: "Christophe Bachmann" <Chris_CII at compuserve.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mottos: Must they be latin?
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:18:46 +0100
Organization: Wanadoo, l'internet avec France Telecom

"Brian M. Scott" <b.scott at csuohio.edu> said:

I thought the translations would interest some people :

Ich Dien : I serve

Honi soit qui mal y pense : evil be to him who evil thinks

Fais ce que dois advienne que pourra! : Do what you must, whatever happens
!
A tout venant, beau jeu : For all comers, fair play (Translated litteraly,
I don't figure the meaning)
Bois ton sang, Beaumanoir, ta soif passera : Drink your blood, Beaumanoir,
your thirst will abate
Moult me tarde : I am most anxious
Je le tiens : I hold it
Aultre n'auray : I will have no other
Je l'ay emprins : (don't know sorry)
Dieu aide au premier baron chrétien! : God help the first christian baron !

Dieu Veulant Je Feray : God willing, I'll do
-- 
Guiraud Belissen, Château du Ciel, Drachenwald
Chris CII, Rennes, France


From: Steve Mesnick <steffan at pobox.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mottos: Must they be latin?
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:53:43 -0500

Cynthia Virtue wrote:
> I see so many requests for latin translations -- surely mottos don't 
> have to be in latin to be historically valid?

Of course not. Fairbarn's Crests lists scads of mottoes, a large
number in Latin, but many also in English, French, German, Greek,
Italian, Gaelic, and a number of other languages. My own warcry is
Gwrandewch a' Rheswm, Welsh for "Listen to Reason".

I think those looking for languages other than Latin just look
elsewhere for a translation; it's easier to find a native speaker
of French than of Latin in one's neighborhood %^).

	Steffan ap Kennydd


From: Sandy Straubhaar <orchzis at hotmail.com>
Date: February 27, 2006 8:59:23 PM CST
To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] RE: Mottos

Hmmm -- I've never had a motto.  Doesn't seem really Nordic, the motto on a little floating scroll and all.  But then, neither do Coats of Arms.  Anachronisms R Us.  So I started thinking about possibilities.

The following are all cool for different reasons; they have lots of different tones (pessimistic and less pessimistic, maybe; that seems Nordic enough to me).  Anybody out there have a favorite that I maybe should oughta settle on?

Medhalsnotr skyli manna hverr.   (Hçvamçl 54 & 55)
(Each person should be middle-wise [i.e., not too wise nor too stupid])

Fimbulfambi heitir sç er fçtt kann segja.  (Hçvamçl 103)
(They call him a fool who can't say much)

Ek drykk of gat ins d1⁄2yra mjadhar.     (Hçvamçl 140)
(I got me a drink of the costly mead [=the mead of poetic inspiration])

Illr er dùmr norna.  (HlÜdhskvidha, last line)
(Ill is the Doom of the Norns) (=Life's a b***ch)

Sigr£nar skaltu kunna. (SigrdrÆfumçl 6)
(Victory-runes shalt thou know)

Mçlr£nar skaltu kunna. (SigrdrÆfumçl 12)
(Runes of language shalt thou know)

Fun thinking about anyway.

brynhildr

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