wine-cooking-msg - 12/10/06
Cooking wines. Substitutions.
NOTE: See also the files: wine-msg, cider-msg, mead-msg, beer-msg, verjuice-msg, vinegar-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Aldyth at aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:33:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Farmgirls Version
In a message dated 97-04-11 18:07:34 EDT, Sabia writes:
<< I have a question concerning the use of wine in cooking. I am
allergic to sulfates which are present in 'most' wines, do they cook off
or would they remain? I have avoided tasting any dishes that are made
this way and tend to substitute broth or other liquids, any suggestions?>>
I am also afflicted. Gallo does not seem to have an effect, nor does Paisano
for american wine. I usually try to get donated home made wine for feasts.
Try asking one of your vintners for their "not ready for prime time"
offerings. Otherwise, you are stuck cooking with European wines. And the
good ones are usually expensive.
Aldyth Trefaldwyn
Windkeep, Outlands
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:10:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sca-cooks Spiced Wine
<< Do you buy "spiced wine" or would you make it? >>
Spiced wine can be bought in in any liquor store. It is usually labeled
"Holiday Wine".
Lord Ras
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 00:24:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sca-cooks SCA-cks Sulfates in wine
<< I have a question concerning the use of wine in cooking. I am
allergic to sulfates which are present in 'most' wines, do they cook off
or would they remain? >>
Alas, sulfates are persent in almost all wines. They are a natural chemical
in grapes and the supposed sulfate free wine that you see is free of the
added sulfates that are used to kill harmful (and carconiginous (sp) fungi
that would grow grow without them. If you are allergic to sulfur drugs, the
medical studies that prompted the labeling of wines containig sulfites with a
warning message was over-reaction to a 1 in 10000 scenerio and wine
containing this ingredient is basically harmless to those allergic
sulfa-drugs.
If such is not your case ( tested by a medical professional for allergic
reactions to sulphur compounds in the miniscule amounts that wine actually
contains) I would say that your fear of eating foods that have been cooked
in wine are basically groundless and you can safely eat feasts without worry.
If your allergy is based on the AA trash against eating foods with alcohol
then again your fears are irrelevant because the alcohol is cooked out within
a matter of minutes.
Lord Ras.
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:13:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Spiced Wine
Janine writes:
> << Do you buy "spiced wine" or would you make it? >>
and Lord Ras replies:
> Spiced wine can be boughten in any liquor store. It is usually labeled
> "Holiday Wine".
I don't know what spices they throw into "Holiday Wine"; for all I know,
it could be allspice and vanilla. There were specific spices mentioned
in the recipe, which I can't seem to find right now. Offhand, I would
GUESS it was a poudre fort, which might contain cinnamon, ginger, black
pepper, grains of Paradise, etc.
Steve / Joshua
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:16:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sca-cooks SCA Spiced Wine Recipe
The flavor of the following and the the flavor of Brotherhood Holiday Wine is
almost exactly alike. However, if you want to go through the bother and
expence of creating your own Spiced Wine, here is the PERIOD recipe.
The following is from Duke Coriadac's Miscellany, Le Managier de Paris,
c.1395 c.e., translated by Janet Hinson:
HIPPOCRAS. To make powderedd hippocras, take a quarter -ounce of very fine
cinnamon, hand-picked by tasting it, an ounce of very fine meche ginger and
an ounce of grans of paradise, a sixth of an ounce of nutmeg and gallingale
together, and pound it all together. And when you want to make hippocras,
take a good half-ounce or more of this powder and two quarter ounces of
sugar, and mix them together, and a quart of wine as measured in Paris.
And note that the powder and the sugar mixed together make "duke's"
powder".
To make a quart or a quarter-ounce of hippoccras by the measure usedin
Besiers, Carcassonne, or Moontpelier, take five drams of fine select
cinnamon, select peeled white ginger, three drams: of cloves, grains, mace,
galingale, nutmeg, nard, altogether one and a fourth drams: more of the
first, and of the others less and less of each as you go down the list. Grind
to powder, and with this put a pound and a half a quarter ounce, by the
heavier measure (1), of ground rock sugar, and mix with the aforesaid spices;
and have wine and the sugar melted on a dish on the fire, and add the powder,
and mix: then put in the straining bag, and strain until it comes out a clear
red.
Note that the cinnamon and the sugar should dominate.
Lord Ras
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:45:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks SCA Spiced Wine Recipe
To make a quart or a quarter-ounce of hippoccras by the measure usedin
Besiers, Carcassonne, or Moontpelier, take five drams of fine select
cinnamon, select peeled white ginger, three drams: of cloves, grains, mace,
galingale, nutmeg, nard, altogether one and a fourth drams: more of the
first, and of the others less and less of each as you go down the list. Grind
to powder, and with this put a pound and a half a quarter ounce, by the
heavier measure (1), of ground rock sugar, and mix with the aforesaid spices;
and have wine and the sugar melted on a dish on the fire, and add the powder,
and mix: then put in the straining bag, and strain until it comes out a clear
red.
It is also worth noting that the VAST majority of the Hippocris recipes I
know of pour the wine through the spices, instead of heating them. I have
the honor and the privilege to count as friends, two really amazing
brewers/researchers, and one of the (Morgaine) has collected over 50 period
hippocris recipes.
Tibor
From: "Aonghas MacLeoid (B.G. Morris)" <hylndr at ionline.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:53:18 -0400
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Farmgirls Version
I too react to some wines, usually reds, because of the sulfates. They
trigger migraines!!!
You might also try Fetzer wines, of Redwood Valley, California. The
Cabernet Sauvignon is really great and has not triggered any response.
Here in Canada it is about 7.75 a bottle but since its an American product
it will probably cost less there???
Regards,
Ealasaid
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:03:21 -0500
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Farmgirls Version
Hi, Katerine here. Ealasaid writes:
>I too react to some wines, usually reds, because of the sulfates. They
>trigger migraines!!!
Actually, the substance in wines that triggers migraines for many migraine
sufferers is tyramine. (There are a lot of tyramine-containing foods. Most
migraine sufferers will get migraines from one or more of them, but which
depends on the person. I have no problem with any but red wines, which
reliably give me a migraine if I drink more than 1 to 1 1/2 glasses. They
don't give me migraines in sauces -- but then, I rarely consume more than
the equivalent of 1 1/2 glasses of a sauce!)
There are many things that could cause reactions of various kinds to
various wines. One person has mentioned sensitivity to sulfa and
sulfa drugs. Another thing that was a problem back in the early
80s, but is far less so now, is sodium disulphite (or bisulphite,
I forget precisely; both exist, and are different). This is the
stuff that was used in some wines, on salad bars, on fries, and
various other stuff as a preservative, until they discovered just
how many people respond anaphylactically to it. It's bad for
business to kill the customers; after a fair amount of press, most
sources dropped the stuff like a hot rock.
If you don't know what exactly it is that you respond to, it's hard
to predict whether cooking the wine will help. If your response is
serious, simply avoid. If it's mild, experiment.
Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:34:56 -0400
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Farmgirls Version
I've been known, on occasion, to run out of wine (no, that's not why!)
while cooking at events. I generally substitute a dash of vinegar
(perhaps 10%). Red wine vinegar for red wine (oh, well...) and white
wine vinegar or champagne vinegar for white. I don't recommend distilled
white vinegar for much of anything in the world, except possibly for
some pickle recipes, and that, with care. I have no reason to assume
that sulfites would be added to the wine from which vinegar is made,
since they act as a preservative that would fight the action of the
bacteria that make the vinegar.
Adamantius
From: "Chuck Graves" <Chuck_Graves at mmacmail.jccbi.gov>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 09:22:05 CST
Subject: SC - Re[2]: sca-cooks Sulfites in wine/food
Greetings from Tadhg.
Couldn't resist the discussion on this topic. While I am not
sensitive myself, I have had several friends who have complained of
the headaches they receive from store-bought wines.
Now, before you start snickering about knowing the "real" reason for
their aches, consider the following. A "hangover" does not: a) have
an onset of 15 minutes or less, b) normally come accompanied by
symptoms of hay fever or head cold, and c) punish you for drinking a
glass and a half of wine.
Additionally, most of those same friends have been able to identify to
me a small handful of champagnes they can enjoy as well as most of the
wines I have given them. The brands I have been able to investigate
have all been "traditional" champagnes--in other words, bottle
conditioned champagne. While I am not a doctor, the descriptions
certainly sound like allergies to me.
To say the least, these gentles are my main reason for never using
sulfites. (The other reason is I am a closet authenticity maven when
it comes to brewing--chemistry sets are NOT period.)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:54:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Spiced Wine
In a message dated 97-04-15 01:57:09 EDT, you write:
<< I have seen several mentions of allspice and vanilla, and have gotten the
impression they are not period -- or is there part of an argument that I
missed? >>
Allspice and vanilla were introduced well after period by anyone's
definition. There was no argument about the spiced wine only opionions on
whether mundane commersial spiced wine could be used in recipes that are
period. Since I am a hobby vintner and have not come across any recipes that
included the offending spices and through conversations with professional
vintnors who produce spiced wine, e.g. Brotherhood "Holiday" wine, have not
found that these spices are used commercially, I still think that it would be
OK (not authentic necessarily. :-)) to use most commercial spiced wine in the
place of home-made Hippocras.
Lord Ras
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:51:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: SC - Cherries and wine
Ok, for those of us who can't / don't partake, what is a good juice
to substitute for wine if you are cooking cherries? Would white
grape juice work?
There was some discussion of ths a few months ago. The conclusion I walked away with at the time was as follows:
There are three flavors in wine that are key: the fruit flavors from the
grape, the astringency of the alcohol, and the reduced sugar. I suspect
that you could get a close approximation with white grape juice, and a
little wine vinegar for sharpness.
Of course, there are alcohol free wines available now, if you are willing to make the expense.
Tibor
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:27:36 -0400
From: "Nick Sasso (fra niccolo)" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cherries and wine
Erin Kenny wrote:
> Ok, for those of us who can't / don't partake, what is a good juice
> to substitute for wine if you are cooking cherries? Would white
> grape juice work?
Actually, there are some very good dealcoholized wines on the market if
the alcohol is the issue. Check your finery wine retailers and ask for
it. They may be able to get a case for you if they don't regularly
carry it. It uses osmotic action to remove the alcohol from real wine.
The result is very like wine rather than the sweeter, less complex grape
juice. Comes in many varieties as well.
fra niccolo
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:45:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: SC - Wine sub
In a message dated 97-07-10 22:30:34 EDT, you write:
<< Would white grape juice work? >>
Probably but remember that most grape juices are made with Concord grapes and
not varietals. Concord has a definite foxxy taste that is not present in Old
World grapes.
Lord Ras
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:15:37 GMT
From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Subject: Re: SC - Cherries and wine
On 10 Jul, Claricia Nyetgale (Erin Kenny <Erin.Kenny at sofkin.ca>)
wrote:
>Ok, for those of us who can't / don't partake, what is a good juice
>to substitute for wine if you are cooking cherries? Would white
>grape juice work?
That depends on why you aren't "partaking". If you are worried about
the alcohol and you are actually COOKING it, then there is very little
to worry about. The alcohol itself will burn off, as it evaporates at
a much lower temperature than boiling water. (Anyone know the boiling
point of alcohol off the top of their head?)
If you have other problems with alcohol itself you could always try
some of the de-alcoholized wines available from St. Regis, Ariel and
Sutter-Home, where the alcohol content is about the same as you would
find in orange juice or a slice of bread. And if you also cook it, it
should burn off the rest of that as well. This will at least give some
of the qualities imparted from a fermented juice that are not found in
juice alone, such as the tannins in a red wine, for example.
If you simply cannot stand the sulfites that you might find in any of
the above, home-brewed wines might be a consideration with, again,
cooking off the alcohol. (Some people are very sensitive to sulfites
and they can make you sick and/or give you migraines, if you are prone
to them. Some foreign and some home-brewed wines do not use slfites to
stop the fermentation process. Check the label closely or ask the
brewer.) I would suppose, though, that if all else fails I'd go with
grape juice (white or red based on usage) and the addition of a bit of
wine or balsamic vinegar (or both). I'd say a between a tsp and Tbls
per cup of juice as your taste prefers.
That's what I'D do, but others may have better ideas.
Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)
zarlor at acm.org
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:16:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Baaastard at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Cherries and wine
This question was asked:
The alcohol itself will burn off, as it evaporates at
a much lower temperature than boiling water. (Anyone know the boiling
point of alcohol off the top of their head?
It is approximately 178 degrees F. I don't have my _Lore of Still Building_
in front of me to give you the exact temp. Sorry.
(Some people are very sensitive to sulfites
and they can make you sick and/or give you migraines, if you are prone
to them. Some foreign and some home-brewed wines do not use slfites to
stop the fermentation process.
Actually the sensitivities can be much worse than this. The labeling laws
concerning sulfites in foods and beverages came into existence because people
allergic or sensitive to the sulfites were going into anaphlaptic shock and
dying(sorry about the spelling there). The aunt of a friend of mine was
actually the person responsible for the discovery that these chemicals can be
that dangerous. She had a reaction when drinking some homemade wine. She
ended up on Sixty minutes, and laws were made to protect people like her.
Also, there is a growing trend toward organic wines. Any wines that you see
labeled organic are guaranteed to be sulfite free(or as sulfite free as they
can be naturally). Ask at your local liquor store, they are almost sure to
have a couple.
Good luck,
Michael Farrell
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 16:55:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANN1106 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Sherry
Sherry is a fortified wine originally mad in the town of Jerez in the
Andalusian region of Southern Spain. You can also find sherries made in the
US, Australia and S Africa. They range in color, flavor and sweetnes. Finos
being dry and light, manzanillas are very dry with a bit of saltiness.
Amontillados (also called milk sherry) are sweeter and nutty flavored and
darker in color. Olorosos are sometimes called cream or golden sherries.
Audrey (ann1106 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:25:57 -0500
From: margali <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Original nuns, monks and Priest
> For example, I made Saracen Bruet this weekend using burgundy for my "red
> wine" and noticed two things: first, the redaction I was using (Pleyn
> Delit) says to cook until the liquid is mostly absorbed, and that just
> didn't seem to be happening. Second, the resulting sauce (after adding
> almond milk and spices) was a rather unappetizing pinkish gray color.
>
> The taste was fine and it all disappeared into hungry feasters, but I still
> feel like maybe something went wrong in the cooking process.
>
> Any suggestions? Is it supposed to be that color, or did I do something
> wrong?
>
> =Caitlin
I had the same problem, so what I did was not worry about preserving the
red color, I browned the meat well and went for the rich brown color. I
have noticed, and it is backed up in a nifty book on the science of food
and cooking I have that the red coloring in wine is degraded by heat, so
if the pink is unpleasant, go for a good white instead.
margali
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:10:15 +1100
From: Meliora & Drake <meliora at macquarie.matra.com.au>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu, sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Rhenish Wine??
At 03:07 PM 6/01/98 -0500, Margritte wrote:
>Hope this isn't a stupid question, but I'm far from being a wine maven...
>
>If a recipe calls for "good Rhenish wine", what should I use?
>
>>From "A Queen's Delight":
>
>To make Rasberry Wine.
>Take a Gallon of good Rhenish Wine, put into it as much Rasberries very
>ripe as will make it strong, put it in an earthen pot, and let it stand two
>dayes, then pour your Wine from your Rasberries, and put into every bottle
>two ounces of Sugar, stop it up and keep it by you.
>
>-Margritte
I've done this recipe with a cheap flagon of Rhine Reisling and the results
were fantastic. I never had one complaint about the brew. You could
probably use other wines and it would matter that much as the Raspberries
are the dominant flavour. Some brewing tips though:
1) Don't add 2oz of sugar per bottle other wise you will end up with
grenades, a maximum of 1tsp of sugar per 750ml bottle.
2) Use Beer bottles or Champagne bottles (with corks and WIRES). If you
use wine bottles then the pressure will ease the corks out of the bottles.
3) Add just 1-2 grains of yeast to each bottle. Modern wine is so finely
filtered that it is hard to get a fermentation going again to gas the
bottles. The recipe is one that is meant to be 'windy' or carbonated.
4) If you reduce the raspberries with a little sugar to a syrup and then
filter the syrup and then add the syrup to the wine then your will get a
finer product. Don't activate the pectin in the raspberries or you will get
a haze in the wine you can't clear. If you do get a haze the Pectinase from
the Home-Brew shop will clear it. Even better, I can buy (here in
Australia) raspberry syrup which goes great in brewing recipes.
5) Good luck, it's a very tasty and easy recipe and I applaud you good
judgement in choosing this recipe.
Drake Morgan,
Lochac.
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:44:12 -0400
From: Mike Hobbs <llewmike at iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-flavor substitutes
After a great deal of experimentation, I came up with a substitute for
wine that tastes almost the same after cooking. 1/4 lemon, 1/4 vinegar,
and 1/2 grape juice works beautifully. LLEW
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:21:40 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Red Wine for Game Marinade
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Despite the conventional wisdom of "never cook with anything you would not
drink," the qualities sought in a cooking wine are not necessarily the same
ones you want in a drinking wine.
My answer is, cheap jug wine. Cheap is OK here and will make the budget go
further. If it has a harsh acidity, that is just fine because it will have
the tenderizing effect on the game meats which they so dearly need. LONG
cooking will even out the flavor. I have used this at SCA feasts to good
effect. I also use this kind of red rotgut to marinate and baste lamb,
where it undergoes a kind of sea-change, dissolves the hard fat of the lamb
and tenderizing the leg muscles into lusciousness.
Depending on how much it smoothes out, you might not need much vinegar if
any; treat it as a condiment and use it to taste. Any jokes about "Bambi
Bourguignon" should be made at your own risk.
Selene
On 10/28/06 12:32 PM, "JohnKemker" <john at kemker.org> wrote:
> In just a few weeks, I'll be cooking for the Baronial Encampment for
> Their Excellencies South Downs. I have a wide variety of game meats
> to prepare and am planning on marinating quite a bit of it prior to
> cooking.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on both the type of red wine I should use,
> as well as any suggestions for particular brands that are reasonbly
> priced and should do well in the marinade.
>
> --Lord Cian O'Madadhain
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 08:44:22 -0700
From: "Caointiarn" <caointiarn1 at bresnan.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Red Wine for Game Marinade
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Since the axiom has already been stated {use nothing you wouldn't
drink} it still doesn't have to be expensive. A Chianti is bold enough for the game, _Livingston Cellars_ from California is available in larger bottles (half gallon jug) and don't dismiss the boxed
wines! Peter Vella is another inexpensive label.
Caointairn
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:33:54 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Wine in cooking -- was, Re: Sca-cooks Digest,
Vol 6, Issue 81
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
On Oct 29, 2006, at 7:38 AM, Harry Bilings wrote:
> Every thing I have heard about useing wine to cook with is if you
> would not drink it don't cook with it.
>
> plachoya
> humble archer
> Ravens Fort Ansteorra
That's a pretty standard rule, and a variation on the First Rule of
Food Service: Never try to put into anyone's mouth anything which,
for quality concerns, you wouldn't want in your own mouth.
That said, and as has been said here today, you can use cheap jug
wine, or even box wine, in a marinade that you wouldn't want to
necessarily drink a big ol' glass of, or several smaller ones (the
wine, that is, not the marinade). What I never use under any
circumstances is any wine specifically labeled as cooking wine --
generally they're just too awful for words, and after that, they're
often treated with salt (I'll sometimes break this rule in Chinese
cooking with some salted rice or sorghum wines, which are distinctly
high octane and when used with ingredients like soy sauce, what's a
bit more salt among friends?) I've heard that it's to prevent people
from drinking it...
Now, for Sauce Bordelaise, or something like that? You want real,
serious wine that has never known the fatal kiss of the waxed
cardboard carton or the plastic box liner, or even the gallon jug ;-)...
Adamantius, by no means a wine snob
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:58:39 -0600
From: "Lisa" <silvina at allegiance.tv>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wine in cooking -- was, Re: Sca-cooks
Digest, Vol 6, Issue 81
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I've made a venison pepper stew several times that requires wine for the
marinade. The first time I made it I used the cheapest burgundy I could
find, and it tasted great. Several years later, I used a more expensive
burgundy and to be honest, I'll stick with the cheap burgundy lol... the
expensive version totally changed the taste of the dish and not for the
better in my opinion.
Elizabeta
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:32:42 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 6, Issue 81
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
On Oct 30, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:
>> Every thing I have heard about useing wine to cook with is if you
>> would not drink it don't cook with it.
>
> This is one of those things that bugs me. I generally don't drink wine
> for pleasure, and when I do, I only drink a small handful of types.
> That makes this rule not useful for me.
I can see why, but for most people it's a pretty good rule, and then
there's the fact that it's a modern rule based on the principles of a
fairly modern gastronomic approach. Wine is there, when it is there,
to enhance the quality of a meal, but not to compensate for any
weaknesses it may display. In general, if the meal is such that you
either want to get drunk while tackling it or need the wine to help
slide it down your throat, you've got more trouble than a glass of
wine will fix.
On the other hand, if you simply don't like wine enough to feel
comfortable drinking and experimenting with enough of it to acquire a
frame of reference, then yes, you might have trouble applying this
rule. But that doesn't make it a bad rule, per se. Even the original
poster was asking for advice, which would presumably be based on
others' frames of reference.
> I also wonder if a medieval steward would agree with the idea? I
> kind of suspect not, but it is only conjecture.
Probably not, at least not to the full extent you're seeing here.
Certainly there's a lot of period stuff about bad wine and what you
can do to fix it, Biblical references to using the good stuff first
when everyone can taste it and the cheap stuff later when everybody's
good and sloshed, which _may_ in part reflect the opinions of some
relatively modern translators, and also some period condemnation for
those wealthy enough to have good cellars, but who don't keep decent
wines on hand -- was it Richard II about whom it was said his
standard offering was better to be strained through the teeth than
tasted in the mouth? Clearly less-than-stellar wine was known and had
its uses, but when you think about some of the bottling and other
production technology changes wrought in the 17th century, you sort
of have to figure that these were changes in the vintning industry/
occupation, essentially milestones in the path the field was already
taking. It's probably less of an egregious violation of authenticity,
if authenticity is a concern, to use a better wine than you need than
to use one worse than you need.
It's possible that there's a greater range of quality available to
us, as wine buyers who don't necessarily live in wine country,
between recent preservation, packaging, and transportation methods.
Lots of people don't realize that a lot of French vin ordinaire is
sold in plastic or waxed paper cartons like milk in the supermarket,
in France. This is not the best wine by any means.
However, it still may be somewhat better than the lowest of the low
sold in boxes here.
Adamantius
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 11:44:08 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 6, Issue 81
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
At 11:32 AM 10/30/2006, you wrote:
> was it Richard II about whom it was said his
> standard offering was better to be strained through the teeth than
> tasted in the mouth?
That was Henry II's court, and I'm pretty sure it was Gerald of Wales
(who was no fan of Henry) who made the remark.
'Lainie, who is not really awake
<the end>