thickening-msg - 6/11/10

Comments on and the use of period food thickening agents. Bread crumbs, liver, eggs, rice-flour, oatmeal.

NOTE: See also the files: bread-msg, flour-msg, organ-meats-msg, stews-bruets-msg, aspic-msg, grains-msg, rice-msg, gravy-msg, breadcrumbs-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:23:25 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Thickening agents

Another (candidate for a) thickening agent not yet mentioned is (ground/
roasted) liver. If I am not mistaken, it is used e.g. in the 14th
century German 'Buch von guter Speise' #16, #29 or #40. Later on, there
are examples in the Rheinfr‰nkisches Kochbuch and in other 15th century
German sources.

Scully mentions liver as a thickening agent for broths and sauces too,
so there should also be examples in Romance texts, he has been working
on (see e.g. Early French Cookery p. 135 on a poitevine sauce).

Thomas


Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:21:12 EDT
From: allilyn at juno.com
Subject: Re: SC - Egils news and a question

>>. Instead of thinkening the broth into sauce, the eggs shredded and it
looked like eggdrop soup.<<

Broth was too hot.  If you add the eggs to luke-warm broth, beat in well,
then heat, they thicken.

Allison,     allilyn at juno.com


Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 06:32:12 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Egils news and a question

"Laura C. Minnick" wrote: 
> allilyn at juno.com wrote:
> > >>. Instead of thinkening the broth into sauce, the eggs shredded and it
> > looked like eggdrop soup.<<
> >
> > Broth was too hot.  If you add the eggs to luke-warm broth, beat in well,
> > then heat, they thicken.
> 
> So I didn't sette it fro the fyre long enough? Hmm. Sounds about right.
> Sigh. Serves me right for trying to cook in the dark.

A modernish trick that makes this procedure pretty well foolproof
(although I've never tried it in the dark!) is to beat up your egg yolks
in a large mixing bowl, then ladel your broth into the bowl with the
eggs, a bit at a time, beating it as you go. This is the "tempering"
Balthazar spoke of; the idea is to protect the delicate egg proteins
from sudden temperature shifts, especially upward ones. When you have
all your broth in the bowl, or at least most of it, and the bowl is
almost full, then pour it back into the pot and heat it until thick. You
still can't let it boil, but if you have enough yolks it'll thicken it
with an uncurdled, velvety texture.

This process is also used for fine custards, BTW: you know, where you
add scalded milk or cream in a thin stream to your cold egg yolks,
beating continuously, then return to the pot or double boiler and
reheat until thickened...

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:51:34 -0500 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread Crumb Thickening

Dry breadcrumbs crushed into a coarse meal is what I use.  The speed of the
thickening depends largely on the quantity of breadcrumbs to quantity of
broth.  Slowly adding breadcrumbs and cooking down to get the required
thickness is probably the best way to do it, since I once created instant
sludge by adding to many breadcrumbs too fast.

A little water or broth can be used to help thin an overly thickened dish.

I use a breadcrumb thickened broth in making chicken and leek pies and have
found that a thin broth keeps the meat moister and sets up reasonable well
during the baking.

Bear

> I recently tried the chicken and pear stew from "Ein Buch von Guter Spise,"
> which calls for bread crumbs as a thickener.  On the first day, the broth
> was thick, but still soupy.  After a day or two, it was quite thick, almost
> the consistency of gravy.  Does it always take more than a day for the
> breadcrumbs to break down and be absorbed into the liquid?  Should I be
> using drier or moister breadcrumbs to cause the reaction to happen faster?
> Should I use more and chance the leftovers having the consistency of
> concrete?
> 
> Rose :)


Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:48:55 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread Crumb Thickening

"Hupman, Laurie" wrote: 
> I recently tried the chicken and pear stew from "Ein Buch von Guter Spise,"
> which calls for bread crumbs as a thickener.  On the first day, the broth
> was thick, but still soupy.  After a day or two, it was quite thick, almost
> the consistency of gravy.  Does it always take more than a day for the
> breadcrumbs to break down and be absorbed into the liquid?  Should I be
> using drier or moister breadcrumbs to cause the reaction to happen faster?
> Should I use more and chance the leftovers having the consistency of
> concrete?

Probably not. I don't have a lot of experience with storing leftover
bread-thickened sauces, but I get the feeling that while stale bread is
what is often intended in a lot of period recipes, completely dry bread,
akin to commercial croutons or zweibeck crumbs, are not generally what
is intended, unless specifically mentioned. Some recipes do tell you to
toast the bread on the gridiron before using it in a dark-colored sauce,
and many don't, but a large number of them seem to call for the bread to
be steeped for an unspecified length of time in vinegar, wine, water, or broth.

Having made some modern bread-thickened sauces such as rouille and
skordalia (not to mention real gazpacho), I can state that it does take
a while for breadcrumbs to reach their full thickening power. You can
guess and hope for the best, using less than immediately seems
necessary, but I've had fair success with soaking the bread (actual
bread, not crumbs) in just enough liquid to cover in a container barely
big enough to hold it and the liquid. Yes, the bread will swell, but
when it's pushed down into the liquid it generally doesn't get much
bigger than its original volume plus that of the liquid, since air
bubbles are less of an issue in soaked bread. When you're ready to
thicken your sauce, puree the bread (which can be toasted for browning
before soaking) or push it through a strainer or sieve, then add and
beat it into your boiling liquid.

Done this way, you don't get a lot of change from the product when
freshly cooked and the next day, as far as I can tell, and you get a
pretty speedy thickening, requiring less guesswork.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 09:02:52 -0500 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread Crumb Thickening

A standard 1 pound loaf of wheat bread will last about four days unwrapped
and uncut, two days if cut.  After that, they make excellent bread crumbs,
which seem to thicken better than the commercial breadcrumbs.  

After I serve a homemade bread at a dinner party, I often make breadcrumbs
from the leftover slices.  By the following day, they are dry enough to
grind into fine breadcrumbs.

Bear


Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:42:30 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - cornstarch

Christina van Tets wrote:
> Ras asked about documentation for cornstarch.  There is a recipe for this,
> IIRC, in Hieatt's Anglo-Norman article in Speculum.  Will get it to you as
> soon as my time frees up.  Mother in law currently visiting.
> 
> Cairistiona

Finish your cuppa, Cairistiona. I've got it.

"21. Wheat Starch. How to make a year's supply of wheat starch which
will keep as long as desired. Take clean wheat around St. john's Day and
put it in a vessel; for nine days, put plenty of clean water with the
wheat; every day the wheat is to be well washed and the water changed;
then grind it thoroughly, put back into clean water, and let stand
overnight; then strain and place on a cloth in the sun until dry; when
it is dry, take it and put it in a clean vessel; keep it as long as you
wish, well covered and cut into pieces, etc. [Here, 'etc' must mean 'and
grind it for use as needed', rather than 'serve'.]"

Translation from Constance Hieatt and Robin Jones, "Two Anglo-Norman
Culinary Collections Edited from British Library Manuscripts Additional
32085 and Royal 12.C.xii", Speculum v. 61, October 1986 pp 859-882.

FWIW, Saint John's Day is June 24th; presumably the folk in Lochac and
such places will want to try this in late January?
 
Adamantius


Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:28:48 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - cornstarch

> So, where is arrowroot from originally? Was it used anywhere 
> in "period"?
> 
> Anahita

True arrowroot is Maranta arundinacea, from the American tropics.  There are
some other plants which are called arrowroot and are in the genera Canna and
Tacca.  

Bear


Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:29:57 EDT
From: BalthazarBlack at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - cornstarch

lilinah at earthlink.net writes:
> So, where is arrowroot from originally? Was it used anywhere in "period"? 

Arrowroot is a New World food, I believe... knowledge of the use of which was 
given by North American Indian tribes who had been using it for a good long 
time for it's alleged therapeutic qualities for the treatment of arrow 
wounds.  Its a starch extracted from the roots of certain tropical plants, 
though which ones, exactly, escape me at the moment.

Balthazar of Blackmoor


Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 01:13:33 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - wheatstarch/ amylum/ amidon/ umerdum etc.

I guess I missed the original question (just back from my Zuerich
workshop). Anyway: here is a small collection of texts where the
preparation of wheatstarch/ amylum etc. is described (1) or where the
use of wheatstarch etc. is mentioned in a recipe (2). I am sure there
are other passages of this kind ...

Best, Thomas

1. How to make amylum/ amidon/ umerdum

- -- Simili modo e tritici semine tragum fit, in Campania dumtaxat et
Aegypto, amylum vero ex omni tritico ac siligine, sed optimum e
trimestri. inventio eius Chio insulae debetur; et hodie laudatissimum
inde. est appellatum ab eo quod sine mola fiat. proximum trimestri quod
e minime ponderoso tritico. madescit dulci aqua in ligneis vasis, ita ut
integatur quinquies in die mutata; melius, si et noctu, ita ut misceatur
pariter. emollitum priusquam acescat, linteo aut sportis saccatum
tegulae infunditur inlitae fermento, atque ita in sole densatur. post
Chium maxime laudatur Creticum, mox Aegyptium - probatur autem levore et
levitate atque ut recens sit -, iam et Catoni dictum apud nos.
(Plinius)


- -- Hieatt/Jones 1986, Ms. A Nr. 21 (Amydon. Pur fere amidon pur tut l'an
...)


- -- Wiltu eine [!] Amelunck machen so nim den besten weissen vnd erlise
in also scho:ene also du iemer kanst vnd tu:o in denne in einen zuber
vnd sch?tte frisch wasser dar vber alle tage vncz das er xiiij tage
gewessert wirt so tu:on denne daz wasser abe vnd stosse in in einem
steine wol vnd tu:o in denne in ein wis Du:och vnd swinge in wol in dem
frischen wasser so du aller vaste mahs vnd seige das wasser denne abe so
du aller truckenste maht vnd slahe in denne vf ein wi? du:och vnd lo? in
dorren an der sunen so er iemer veste mag vnd hencke in denne an den
luft in einen korp oder in einen sag.
(Cod. guelf. 16.17. Aug. 48, Blatt 111r/v; nach 1415, wohl noch erste
H‰lfte 15. Jh.)


- -- For to make amydon. -- Nym whete at midsomer / & salt, & do it in a
faire vessel / do water therto, that thy whete be yheled / let it stonde
ix days & ix ny(g)t, & everyeday whess wel thy whete / & at ye ix days
ende bray hit wel in a morter / & drie hit to(g)enst ye sonne / do it in
a faire vessel / & kouere hit fort, thou wil it note.
(Austin 1888, p. 112; Laud Ms. 553)


- -- Wie man vmberdumb soll machen.
ccliiij. Nimb ein scho:enen lautern Winter waitz/ vnd das er 
scho:en erklaubt sey/ ge¸? ein frisch wasser daran/ vnnd seyhe 
es alle tag ab/ ge¸? als offt ein frisch //wasser\\ wider daran/ mu:osts 
acht oder zehen tag thu:on/ so lang bi? sich der waitz kle¸bet/ 
so nimb dann den Waitzen/ vnd sto? jn/ vnnd ge¸? ein frisch 
wasser daran/ vnd truck jhn mit den henden/ vnnd nimb ein 
scho:ens leines Sa:ecklein/ ge¸? den geru:erten Waitzen darein/ 
gibt ein wei? ding ausser. So du jn allen ein mal geru:ert hast/ 
das ist der erst schu?/ so sto? jhn stets zum andern mal/ den 
[N2a||46a] sto? besonder durch/ der ist nicht so gu:ot. So nun der
Vmmerdumb 
in ein Zinnbecken/ oder schaff gesetzt/ so seicht das wasser 
gantz ab/ vnd ge¸? ein anders daran/ bi? es dick [=dich] bedunckt 
es sey am boden gantz wei?/ Ob aber fa:e?lin darinnen weren/ 
so ru:er jhn durch einander/ von boden auff/ la? wider durchs 
Sa:eckel/ dann so ge¸? das wasser gantz darab/ das gleich wie 
ein taiglein der Vmmerdumb sey/ breyt den auff ein scho:ens 
wei? ha:erins tu:och/ auff ein bra:etle/ ge¸? das taiglin zettelwei? 
darauff/ vnd setz jn an die Sonnen/ so er vbertrucknet/ ledigs 
von dem tu:och/ kers vmb/ vnnd setz an ein heisse Sonnen/ so 
wirt er scho:en wei?/ man mag jn in einer warmen stuben auch 
tr¸cknen.
(Staindl 1569)


2. Some recipes where amylum/umerdum etc. is mentioned

- -- Mincebek. E une autre viaunde, ke ad a noun mincebek. Pernez amydon e
myncez le en un morter, e si vos n'avez ceo, pernez flur demeyne; e
pernez let de almaundes ou ewe teve, e metez dedenz un poi de gest ou un
poi de past egre; e puys festes temprer; e pernez une esquele e festes
un pertuz parmy, e festes culer le mincebek parmy cel pertuz en oile ou
en gresse; e puys pernez sucre e festes sirop boiller; e festes bainer
le myncebek dedenz, e metez du cel desus; e puys les dressez.
Hieatt/Jones 1986, Ms. A Nr. 4; see also Nr. 13 (De amydoun. E une autre
viaunde, ke ad noun amydoun. Pernez amydoun, ...).


- -- Ain mandel mu:o? machen
Item wildu machen ein mandel mu:oss, So nym ein pfunt mandels, vnd nymm
auch vm?dum, vnd ob du des nicht hast, So nym semlein prot dar zue vnd
das thue jn ain wasser, vnd wall das darauss vnd das schlach mit der
milich durch ain tu:och. So wirt es klain, wiltu es su:ess haben So thue
zugker daran, das haist ain mandel mu:oss.
(Maister Hanns; 15. Jh.)


- -- WJlt du machen ein mandel mues so nym ein halb l mandel vnd vmerdum
darczue ob du ez nicht enhast so nym semeln prat dorzue vnd das tue in
ain wasser vnd pall es schˆn aus daz slach mit der milch durch ein tuch
so wirt es klain wildu es sue? haben so tue ein zuker dor zue das haist
ain mandel mues.
(Cod. vind. 2897, fol. 5r; 15. Jh.)


- -- Vmmerdumb mu:e?lin
cclv. Machs also/ Nimb des Vmmerdumbs ein wenig/ 
vnnd mach jn zu meel/ damit mach ein taiglin mit milch/ ein 
d¸nns/ setz ein gu:ote milch in einer pfannen vber/ ge¸? dises 
taiglin darein/ ru:ers fein/ se¸ds wie sonst ein milch koch. 
Solliches mu:o? ist krancken le¸ten/ die ein bo:esen 
kopff haben gu:ot/ es sterckt das Hirn. 
Man braucht den Vmmerdumb sonst vil.
(Staindl 1569)


- -- Amidono d'amido.
Se tu vuo' fare amiduni per XII persone, tuoi do libre de mandole e una
libra de amido, Ë meza de zucharo Ë toi 1/2 de pignoli mondi e mezo
quarto de garofali, Ë toi le mandole bene monde Ë bene maxenate, Ë
distempera con aqua chiara bene bolita Ë toy tre parte de lacte Ë mitilo
a bolire; di quello che te romane crudo meti a molo l'amidon. Quando lo
lacte Ë bolito asay, distempera l'amido e mitil dentro e meschola spesso
e trailo in suso per menestrare, e mitige zucharo asay, e poni per sopra
le scutelle zucharo e garofalli e pignoli mondi. E se tu vuo' fare per
pi? persone o per men, toy le chosse a questa medesima raxone e ene
perfecta vivanda. 
(Anonymo Veneziano)


- -- 28. Et encor plus, les flons de lait d'amendres: selon la quantitÈ
des flons que ferÈs si prennÈs la quantitÈ des amendres, si les faictes
bien plumer nectement et laver et puis les faciÈs tresbien broyer; et
prennÈs de belle eaue bien necte et colle son lait d'amendres en celluy
ou en cornue que soit belle et necte selon la quantitÈ des flons qu'il
doibt faire. Et puis prennÈs de bel amidon et le lavÈs de belle eaue
fresche et le mectÈs en une belle seille quant il sera lavÈs; et puis
prennÈs vostre lait d'amendres et puis le mectÈs dedans son amidon
trempÈ, et si mectÈs un petit de saffran pour lui donner couleur; et
puis coulÈs cela a une belle estamine dedans une belle et necte seille,
et mectÈs ung petit de sel dedans et de succre grant foyson. Et quant
cecy est fait si appellÈs vostre patissier que on face les crostes et
qu'il les mecte dedans le four ung petit enroydir; et que puis ledit
patissier hait une belle cuillier ou de boys ou de fer estachiee a bon
bastonnet bauc pour emplir dedans le four les cortelletes dudit flons.
(Maistre Chiquart, 1420; there are more recipes; see index of the Scully
ed. p. 208)


3. References

AUSTIN (1888): Austin, Thomas (ed.): Two fifteenth-century
cookery-books. Harleian ms. 279 (ab. 1430), & Harl. ms. 4016 (ab. 1450),
with extracts from Ashmole ms. 1439, Laud ms. 553, & Douce ms. 55.
Hertford 1888 (EETS 91). Reprint Millwood, N.Y. 1988.
FACCIOLI (1966): Faccioli, Emilio: Arte della cucina. Libri di ricette,
testi sopra lo scalco, il trinciante e i vini dal XIV al XIX secolo.
Zwei B‰nde. Mailand 1966.
FRATI (1899): Frati, Ludovico: Libro di cucina del secolo XIV. Livorno
1899. Nachdruck Sala Bolognese 1977.
HIEATT/JONES (1986): Hieatt, Constance B./Jones, Robin F.: Two
anglo-norman culinary collections edited from British Library
manuscripts Additional 32085 and Royal 12.C.xii. In: Speculum 61 (1986)
859-882.
MAISTER HANNS (1996): Maister Hanns, des von Wirtenberg Koch: Guot Ding
von allerlay Kochen (1460). Faksimile der Handschrift A.N.V. 12 der UB
Basel. Hg. von Tupperware. Transkription, ‹bersetzung, Glossar und
kulturgeschichtlicher Kommentar von Trude Ehlert. Frankfurt a.M. 1996.
PLINIUS: C. Plini Secvndi natvralis historiae libri XXXVII. Hg. von Karl
Mayhoff (1897). F¸nf B‰nde. Nachdruck Stuttgart 1967.
SCULLY (1985): Scully, Terence: Du fait de cuisine par Maistre Chiquart
1420. In: Vallesia 40 (1985) 101-231.
STAINDL (1569): Staindl, Balthasar.: Ein sehr K¸nstlichs vnd nutzlichs
Kochbuoch/ vormals nye in so leicht/ Mannen vnnd Frawen personen/ von
jnen selbst zu lernen/ in Truck verfast (...). Auch wie man Essig macht/
und Wein guot behelt. Dillingen 1569. Nachdruck Dietikon-Z¸rich 1979.


Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 20:12:21 EDT
From: BalthazarBlack at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC -corn in the USA

TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:
>  Arrowroot powder which is either the ground tuber or the starch
>  extracted from the tuber of the arrowroot is also used as a thickener,
>  but I have no experience with it.

Arrowroot provides a little less thickening power than cornstarch (2/3
roughly) but produces a smoother, satiny sauce.  It also tends to clarify a
little more than cornstarch.  In my experience with arrowroot, however, I
have found that it tends to lose a lot of it's thickening ability when it is
re-heated.  I believe that (and possibly cost) is why it is not in more
common use here in the U.S.

Balthazar of Blackmoor


Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:49:02 GMT
From: "Vincent Cuenca" <bootkiller at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - Re: historical liver

As far as I can tell, the Spanish corpus
>uses the livers of most edible creatures.  There are a lot of recipes
>for roast fowl which use the bird's liver in a sauce.

The technique still survives in modern Catalan cooking.  Liver and nuts are 
ground into a paste, thinned with broth or wine or water, and then added to 
the sauce both as a thickener and a flavoring agent.  The technique is 
called "picada", and can also include breadcrumbs, herbs and spices, peppers 
and chocolate, depending on the sauce.  De Nola uses the technique over and 
over again, but does not give it a name.

Vicente


Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:43:44 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cornflour? In Apicius? Moo-ooo-ooo

Also sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:
> For the Roman feast i'm doing in September, i'm reading through;
> -- Flower and Rosenbaum, Apicius
> -- Giacosa, A Taste of Ancient Rome
> -- Dalby and Grainger, The Classical Cookbook
>
> There are a number of sauce recipes that call for some sort of
> thickening. The original Latin appears to be "amula", given as
> "starch" in the translations, but as "cornstarch" in the recipe.
>
> Of course, i know the Romans didn't have what we call "corn" in
> America, that is, maize. Is this a case where "cornstarch" in British
> means "wheat starch" in American?
>
> And would fine white flour work? Or should I be using something else?
>
> Thanks,
> Anahita

See if you can get some wheat starch in a Chinese grocery. Amulum =
amydoun = wheat starch. Medieval recipes involve soaking kernels
until they burst and release starch, which separates from the
glutinous parts of the grain (to some extent), leaving a starchy
precipitate in your soaking water. You pour off the water and dry the
dregs, and grind it in a mortar.

Flower and Rosenbaum are using the term "cornflour" to mean a generic
starch, I suspect, and wheat starch could come under that heading.

Adamantius


Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:46:29 +0000
From: "Vincent Cuenca" <bootkiller at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Janete of hens
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

>Has anyone ever done this recipe? I'm trying to figure out a redaction
>(last minute, I know, but the feast is next weekend....*sigh*), and I'm
>wondering about the chicken liver in the dish.  I'm not an organ meat
>person, so I'm entirely unsure as to how much I should figure on 
>adding.....
>--maire, starting to tear her hair out....

I haven't done the recipe, but I can tell you that chicken livers, either 
raw or cooked, are a common thickener and flavoring agent in Spanish 
cooking.  Use one liver per whole chicken.  Alternately, try it without the 
livers and see what you get.  De Nola does encourage his readers to get 
inventive, after all...

Vicente


Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:37:31 -0700
From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] in the thick of it...
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Lonnie D. Harvel wrote:
>> First, would the broth from stewed meat be thickened in the 9th
>> century, Danelaw area.
> At a guess, crumbs.
>
>> Second, what is the technique for thickening with bread or bread crumbs.
> Grind bread. Put crumbs in liquid to be thickened.  Allow it to cook a
> little longer. If it still doesn't seem thick enough, repeat.

Make sure you give enough time for the starch to dissolve and get good and
mixed in.  Too little and it is more grainy than you'd like.  This is a
really easy test to work out to see how it behaves.  I did a Neapolitan dish
that was thickened with egg yolks, bread crumbs AND liver.  It was a
startling surprise to see the spaetzel appear in my Italian braised lamb :o)
(I mixed egg and crumbs together before adding to liquid . . . oops.)

Bread is a forgiving master to thicken with, really, just watch it and learn
how much to use, based on moisture in your crumbs, type of grain and quality
(density) of your original crumb.

niccolo difrancesco


Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:57:03 -0600
From: "wyldrose" <wyldrose at tds.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Buttered wortes

I suspect the oatmeal thing is cultural.  Many older Native Americans put 
oatmeal in all their soups as a thickening agent and just love it.  (you 
don't add a lot just a little and you don't really taste  it.)   When I 
lived on the Rez I got over my  bias and had lots of pot luck dishes that 
had oatmeal hidden in them.   The Native Americans began their love of 
oatmeal  in the 1600's when fur traders brought oatmeal along as a staple 
food when trading.  The oatmeal is fairly quick to cook and can be added 
into the  other foods (usually salt pork)  for a quick high calorie meal. 
For the fur traders the food  was easy to transport on the long routes and 
was taken every where the traders went.

  Another thing to think about is that oats are a quick and easy crop and 
can be harvested in multiple ways to get different  taste and textures. 
They usually grow faster than the weeds! A good farmer could easily get  at 
least 2 crops of oats a year, a great farmer  could get 3 or  4 in the right 
climate, and the grain when for human food and the straw as bedding or food 
for the animals.  Most wheat is more temperamental than oats for growing and
takes longer for maturity.  In the  British Islands I suspect the cooler 
wetter weather was more suited to oats than to  most of  the wheat of the 
time.

I wish I could get Outlook to do the insetty arrow thing when quoting other
people. 

I have no particular objection to oatmeal - I actually really like porridge
- but I do find the idea of using it to thicken things a bit unusual. It has
a lot more texture than flour, for instance, and I can't see it going as
soft or smooth as breadcrumbs do when used for thickening. But then I
haven't used it for cooking much - just in parkin, and a few strange
experiments putting it in pancakes. 
As a matter of curiosity, when Americans say 'oatmeal' do they mean
porridge? This is the impression I have. For me, raised in England, and
living most of my adult life in Australia, oatmeal is the finely ground
stuff, and porridge is a breakfast cereal made with rolled oats. 

Angharad


Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:49:21 +0000
From: CHARLES POTTER <basiliusphocas at hotmail.com>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] First Recipe from Libro di cucina/ Libro per
	cuoco,	in parts

  I found wheat starch online at eFoodDepot.com for $1.55 for 12ozs. This is cheap!

                                     Master B


Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:55:00 +1300
From: Antonia Calvo <dama.antonia at gmail.com>
To: yaini0625 at yahoo.com, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] First Recipe from Libro di cucina/ Libro per
	cuoco, in parts

yaini0625 at yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Is wheat gluten the same as wheat starch?

No.  Gluten is a protein in wheat.
-- 
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	thickening-msg	Page 11 of 11