soup-msg - 6/10/07 Medieval soups. Cooking soups at events. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: sops-msg, stews-bruets-msg, broths-msg, thickening-msg, porridges-msg, mustard-soup-msg, onion-soups-msg. KEYWORDS: period soup recipe pottage cooking heating ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance Subject: Re: Soup for 100? Date: 22 Mar 1996 03:19:17 GMT > : 1) What size cauldrons/cookpots will I need? Warrent writes: > If the soup is the main course I'd say they'll want a quart each, > otherwise maybe half of that. So if NOT the main course: > > Cap = halfquart * 100 = 50 qt = (uhmmmm) 12.5 gallons! > Adding 100% for evaporation (unless you want to stand over > it and add hot water periodically), that's 25 gallons total. We just had soup for dinner; two adults and two small children consumed about a quart, plus some bread. So I would say a pint per person of a reasonably thick soup should do for a main course, a cup per person if there is another main course. And allowing an extra 100% for evaporation loss also seems extreme. I would say about a 10 to 15 gallon pot should dol--or several adding up to that. > : 2) Any suggestions as to good recipes? You can find some period soup recipes at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.html > : 3) Any other suggestions you folks have, especially mistakes to avoid and > : useful equipment to have... You want some tool, possibly a metal hook, to lift a hot pot lid. If you are using a single ten gallon pot, it is going to weigh nearly two hundred pounds full, so if you want to be able to lift the pot onto or off of the fire you will need something like a pole going through a handle, with a person at each end of the pole. It is also going to be hard to get a tripod strong enough to handle that big a pot. You may want a big trivet to put it on instead--although I have no idea where you would get one that big. David/Cariadoc -- ddfr at best.com From: bisbetica at aol.com (Bisbetica) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance Subject: Re: Soup for 100? Date: 22 Mar 1996 12:10:09 -0500 Good luck with your endeavor. I just finished a feast for one hundred myself and am still recovering. Things I have found very useful: get yourself a computer program such as Mangia or Micro kitchen companion. They take recipies and will calculate the ingredients for you up to 999 people. This has been a big help to me. Secondly, I have discovered a broth mix that is meat free but tastes like its meat made counterparts. It is called George Washington's Brown or Yellow broth. My vegetarian friends love it and the meat lovers do'nt ever notice the difference. You just have to watch how salty it gets. Good Luck! Katerina From: hwt at igs.net (Henry Troup) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance Subject: Re: Soup for 100? Date: 25 Mar 1996 20:24:44 -0500 You'll need a lot of firewood or charcoal for a lot of soup. Ideally, you'll need a full-time woodchopper person. My experience with boiling massive qunatities has included maple syrup the hard way. It's astonishing how fast a big fire consumes wood. And if you're reheating soup, start early, bring it to the boil for safety. Wood fires are maybe 30% efficient - and water has a huge latent heat of boiling. I haven't worked it out, but I suspect that a pound weight of wood per pint of cold water (to boiling) is about right - much like the pig roasting rule - the fuel weights in the same as the pig. Luck! -- Henry Troup hwt at igs.net I am responsible for these opinions. From: cclark at vicon.net (C. Clark) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance Subject: Re: Soup for 100? Date: 26 Mar 1996 14:15:07 GMT Organization: EMI Communications In article <4j7h0s$7bs at host.igs.net>, hwt at igs.net says... >And if you're reheating soup, start early, bring it to the boil >for safety. ... >Henry Troup hwt at igs.net I am responsible for these opinions. For reheating soup, I would suggest using several smaller kettles. There's not much advantage to be gained from doing it all in one batch, unless much stirring is required or you have to fit it onto a limited number of cooking spaces and get it all ready at one time. In fact, I'm not sure I see the advantage of doing a single huge batch from scratch. This doesn't necessarily save much time and hardly insures that it will all be made even nearly the same (because some ingredients may settle to the bottom before serving). And if you do want to reheat a single big kettle, there's no need to put it all in at once. You should have nearly the same amount of added heat (from the burner) in the pot after a given time period regardless of how much soup is in, unless you let it boil before it's all in the pot. Start with a quart or less, and then add more whenever it's about to boil. This way, you avoid the problem of keeping it for a long time at temperatures below 140 degrees Fahrenheit. By the way (soup-related topic), my father knew someone who had a job at an Indian reservation. Conditions were bad, there were shortages of food (especially meat), wild dogs scavenging for any food not watched over, and most of the people in charge didn't care. Since this person was a rare exception who did seem to care, the inmates (oops, I mean Indians) invited him to a feast. There was a soup served at the feast that he liked, and he went back for seconds. As he helped himself, a nearby child innocently advised him: "Dig down deep! Puppy in the bottom!" Yum. Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark cclark at vicon.net From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:46:15 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Early 'Celtic Melissa Martines wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone had any good primary sources for early > Celtic food? (like 600 A.D.). I'm working on a coronation feast menu > for some really early celts (English Celts, by the way). > > morgan > melissa.martines at corpfamily.com There's not much out there in the Arthurian food department, that I know of. You will probably pretty much have to work with the earliest recipes you can find for those foods that were available in the British Isles at the time in question. This may or may not be especially accurate. Somewhere in the autobiography (Confessions?) of St. Colmkille (a.k.a. Columba, founder of the monastery on Iona, among others), there is a description of the Irish pottage called Brotchan Foltchep or Brotchan Roy. As I say, it is a description, rather than a recipe. However, this soup is still eaten in Ireland today, and given the list of ingredients, there's no real reason it couldn't be more or less the same soup it was in 597 C.E. Most Irish cookbooks have a recipe for it. Here's mine, for what it's worth... ________________________________________________________________ Brotchan Foltchep This soup probably started out as oatmeal porridge enriched with leeks and milk, and has been eaten in Irish monasteries for about 1400 years or more. Serves 6 3 or 4 medium-size leeks, about 1 1/2 pounds 1/4 to 1/2 stick butter (1 - 2 ounces) 2 cups chicken or vegetable stock 2 cups milk 1/2 cup heavy cream 3/4 cup raw, steel-cut porridge oats, like McAnn's Parsley (flat Italian, chopped) for garnishing salt and white pepper to taste Wash the leeks well. They are usually muddy and sandy. Remove any visible dirt or grit. Trim off the root ends and discard. Starting at the white, root ends, slice the leeks thinly. Place in a deep bowl of cold water, and rub the leeks between your hands, gently, to separate the rings and encourage the last of the grit to sink to the bottom. Lift the leek slices off the surface till the bowl has nothing left in it but water and mud. Drain the leeks in a strainer and set aside. In a large, deep saucepan, bring the stock and milk to a simmer. Stir in the oats, bring almost to a boil, and simmer for 20-30 minutes, or until the oats are done. While the oats are simmering, melt the butter in a deep saute pan, over low heat. Sweat the leeks for five or ten minutes, until they begin to soften, but not brown. When the oats are about half done, add the leeks and their butter to the pan of soup. The leeks and the oatmeal should be done at the same time. Take the pot off the heat, stir in the cream, and season with salt and white pepper to taste. Garnish with the parsley. _______________________________________________________________ Plenty of roast and boiled meats would have been eaten (what with a herd-based economy and all). Ditto milk and cheeses. Watercress in some form (probably cooked, though). Variations on the ham-and-cabbage soup-stew thing. Oh, and don't forget the salmon. Adamantius Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:07:28 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - soups with a grain in it rebecca tants wrote: > So, I went through EVERY book I have this weekend and have been over > and over the stuff online and can't find a soup for my sideboard > this upcoming weekend. I had thought something like a beef with barley > would be nice, but not one of my books on english cooking between the 14's > and the 16's lists any grain or starch in a soup other then breadcrumbs. > > My parameters are > 1) English if at ALL possible > 2) Beef or Pork broth (allergy to poultry I'm avoiding) > 3) Needs to sit on a sideboard all day > 4) It's a fighting event - so it needs to be kind of filling/substantial > > Any Ideas? Am I looking in the wrong places? (I checked the Miscellany, > Pleyn Delite, The Good Housewife, Fabulous Feasts (ick), 7 centuries of > english cooking, cookery in England, Take a THousand Eggs or more, etc.) > > Has anyone seen documentation for something like this? Gervase Markham has several pottages from the late 16th / early 17th century (while the English Housewife is dated 1615, I believe, it's one of his later works, and he had apparently been accused not of plagiarizing someone else's work, but his own, from earlier works, so I think he is acceptable for the tail end of late period). If I remember correctly, at least one of the potttages in TEH contains oatmeal. I think it's Boiled Meats Ordinary, but I could be wrong. I remember it as a pottage of beef broth, cubed mutton or beef, herbs, and oats. Perhaps the odd onion or two. Adamantius Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:39:49 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - soups with a grain in it And it came to pass on 2 Sep 97, that rebecca tants wrote: > So, I went through EVERY book I have this weekend and have been over > and over the stuff online and can't find a soup for my sideboard > this upcoming weekend. I had thought something like a beef with > barley would be nice, but not one of my books on english cooking > between the 14's and the 16's lists any grain or starch in a soup > other then breadcrumbs. Timidly delurking.... In Hieatt's _An Ordinance of Pottage_, there is a recipe for "Gruel enforsed", which is a thick soup-porridge based on a beef-pork broth. She says in her commentary that gruel usually meant oatmeal, but that it was sometimes made with barley, which is the grain she chose for the redaction. Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom Date: 3 Sep 1997 15:16:39 -0500 From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com> Subject: SC - Re:Soups with a grain in it Ruadh asks for a soup with a grain in it. Adamantius points out that Markham has several. I just happened (for a change) to have some sources at work for research I am doing in the evening. Here goes: _Of Boiled Meats Ordinary_ (I am not going to quote the recipe, just the ingredients) Mutton or Beef, Water, Violet leaves, Endive, Succory, Strawberry leaves, Spiach, Langdebeef (anyone have any idea), marigold flowers (calendula, not French marigold), Scallions, Parsley, Oatmeal (half as much as there are herbs), _Pottage without the sight of herbs_ Same as above, but you chop the herbs and oatmeal and "with some of the warm liquor in the pot strain it as hard as may be" _Pottage without herbs_ Use the meat, beaten oatmeal, and onions _Pottage with whole herbs_ Mutton, veal, or kid; Oatmeal; Lettuce; Spinach; Endive; Succory; Leaves of Cauliflower (would this be instead of the white flower?); White cabbage -- insides; Onions; Salt; Verjuice If you need more detail just let me know. Derdiru Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:26:15 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - soups with a grain in it From _An Ordinance of Pottage_ by Constance B. Hieatt, Prospect Books, 1988 (This is from a 15th century English manuscript: Yale Beinecke MS 163) Grewel enforsed Take merybonys & fresch beef; make good gruell therof, than draw hem throrow a streyner. Take fayre porke, tendur sodyn; peke out the bonys & the senowys & do awey the skyn. Grynd hit smal yn a morter. Temper hit up with the same gruell that ys drawyn; make hit smothe. Let hit stond resonabely by the flesshe. Sesyn hit up with salt & saferyn, than sette hym by the fyre. Lete hym boyle a lytyll, and serve hym forthe. Hieatt's redaction and comments are: "Gruel" usually meant oatmeal, but it was sometimes made with barley, an alternative which produces a pleasing variant of modern barley broths. In my adapted version, overleaf, I have included herbs as an optional addition, since some other recipes suggest adding them. Meat and Barley Soup 1 c. barley 1/2 lb. beef shin, 'cracked' by the butcher 2 c. cut-up cooked pork generous pinch of saffron 1/2 tsp. salt optional additions: 1 onion 2-3 TBS minced parsley 1/2 tsp. sage Put the barley in a pan with the beef shin, onion (if used), saffron and salt, cover with 6 cups of water and boil until the barley is very soft (about an hour). Drain the barley, reserving the broth and the bone. Cut any usable meat from the beef bone into pieces and put it into a processor with the barley, pork chunks, and parsley and sage (if used). Add a little of the broth and process into a fairly smooth, thick "porridge". Stir this back into the rest of the broth. If necessary to achieve the right consistency, add a little more water. Check seasoning and serve hot. Harper *** Robin Carroll-Mann harper at idt.net Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:00:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Soup stock-tip Someone mentioned fatty items. If you leave your stock in a cool (read refrigerated) place over night you can then remove the hardened fat from the top the next day. This is a standard practice in the making of any meat based stocks. Lord Ras Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:48:21 +1000 From: KandL Johnston <woodrose at malvern.starway.net.au> Subject: Re: SC - Ein Guter Spise Cathy Harding wrote: > I am going to be doing a lunch for about 14 people in a couple of weeks and > thought I would use my latest aquisition ( a copy of ein guter spise). > This weekend I showed the recipes to one of the persons in charge to see if > any of the recipes apealed to her. Her observation was that there were few > or no recipes with vegetables (There are some no meat eaters in the group). > My question is does anyone know of german vegetable recipes from this time > period? From a friends book in german entitled Mideviel Cookbook there is a Pea Soup recipe we found wonderful. Sorry I don't have the original german or a litteral translation, only my poor attempt, but here goes any (and it was good) 250 g Fresh (or frozen peas if you must) Peas 2 onions 40 g butter 1.25 Litres Stock (we used vegatable stock) 1 strand Saffron Pepper t taste 2 T. Muscatel ( Sweet White Wine) 1 bunch Parsley 40 g bread crumbs Oions peeled and finely chopped. in butter fry until clear, then add the peas. Add stock, pepper, saffron, Muscatel and simmer for 20 minutes on medium heat. for clear soup add parsley and serve. for thicker soup, sprinkle bread crumbs over soup with parsley and stir in. Cook for 15 minutes more. Note: we cooked the soup and took off the heat for about 2 hours before a quick reheat beore serving. None came back to the kitchen. <snip> I have more but out of time right now. Hope this helps. Nicolette - --------------------------------------- Rudolf von der Drau and Nicolette Dufay Baron and Baroness, Stormhold Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:21:36 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - cheese soup Stefan asks: >I imagine cheese soups are period. Any direct evidence? There is a "Green Broth of Eggs and Cheese" in Menagier de Paris (late 14th c.) Quite good, although some people give poached eggs floating in soup a funny look. Take parsley and a little cheese and sage and a very small amount of saffron, moistened bread, and mix with water left from cooking peas, or stock, grind and strain: And have ground ginger mixed with wine, and put on to boil; then add cheese and eggs poached in water, and let it be a bright green. Item, some do not add bread, but instead of bread use bacon. [end of original] 3 T parsley 1/2 oz cheese, grated 3 small leaves fresh sage 5 threads saffron 2 thin slices = 1.5 oz white bread 2 c pea stock or dilute chicken stock 1/8 t ginger 1 T white wine 1 3/4 oz cheese, grated 3 eggs Soak bread in stock (either water left from cooking peas or 1/2 c canned chicken broth + 1 1/2 c water). Grind parsley, sage, and saffron in a mortar thoroughly; add 1/2 oz cheese and soaked bread and grind together. Strain through a strainer; if necessary, put back in mortar what didn't go through, grind again, and strain again. Mix wine and ginger, add to mixture, and bring to a boil over moderate heat; be careful that it does not stick to the bottom. Stir in the rest of the cheese; break eggs into soup, and continue to simmer until eggs are poached. The above is in our Miscellany 6th edition, which is on the Web. For future reference, should I post such recipes or just say "from the Miscellany" and let those interested look it up? Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 23:00:46 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #423 L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt wrote: > >I respectfully submit that if cream of leek soup, slightly thickened > >with oatmeal, has anything in common with mortrews, I suggest that the > >redaction of either or both needs to be re-evaluated. Or are oats being > >classified as a legume, thereby invoking the Ancient Prejudice of Aoife? > > Well, I suppose we must have done something wrong then. The recipe used 2 > ozs. oatmeal, 1 pint of milk, and 1 lb. leeks. It stood like cold gelled > oatmeal and was very bitter. Do you have a recipe that's period? Not as such. Documentation for the dish's existence in period doesn't appear to include a recipe with ingredient quantities or proportons. It sounds as if what you've made is fairly close to what Colmcille would have eaten, but it should be possible to improve on what you had without getting too far from the spirit of the thing. This is pretty much my standard recipe, based loosely on Malachai McCormick's "Irish Country Cooking": 3 or 4 medium-size leeks, about 1 1/2 pounds 1/4 to 1/2 stick butter (1 - 2 ounces) 2 cups chicken or vegetable stock 2 cups milk 1/2 cup heavy cream 3/4 cup raw, steel-cut porridge oats, like McAnn's Parsley (flat Italian, chopped) for garnishing salt and white pepper to taste Wash the leeks well. They are usually muddy and sandy. Remove any visible dirt or grit. Trim off the root ends and discard. Starting at the white, root ends, slice the leeks thinly. Place in a deep bowl of cold water, and rub the leeks between your hands, gently, to separate the rings and encourage the last of the grit to sink to the bottom. Lift the leek slices off the surface till the bowl has nothing left in it but water and mud. Drain the leeks in a strainer and set aside. In a large, deep saucepan, bring the stock and milk to a simmer. Stir in the oats, bring almost to a boil, and simmer for 20-30 minutes, or until the oats are done. While the oats are simmering, melt the butter in a deep saute pan, over low heat. Sweat the leeks for five or ten minutes, until they begin to soften. When the oats are about half done, add the leeks and their butter to the pan of soup. The leeks and the oatmeal should be done at the same time. Take the pot off the heat, stir in the cream, and season with salt and white pepper to taste. Garnish with the parsley. Now, back to the real world (sort of). Possible reasons for bitterness might include the most obvious cause, which is that too much of the dark green of the leek was used. Slightly less likely, but still possible, is that your oats had gone rancid. Whole porridge oats aren't always defatted, and oats contain enzymes that can break down fats (hence the oat bran craze of a few years back). Anyway, real oatmeal, as opposed to the nasty flaky stuff, can become rancid quickly, which might result in bitterness. Salt will cover this if it's not serious, but if it's really bad, nothing will mask it, and you shouldn't be eating them anyway. Now, if the oats and leeks have no trace of bitterness, you may find that some might enjoy a slight zing to the soup. I find a dash of Jameson's (preferably the 15-year old) is just the thing. One more thing: this dish seems, when cooked in quantity, to be really prone to burning. Adding the milk (heated) and cream at the end might help with that... Adamantius Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 23:47:21 -0600 From: Robert Beaulieu <robert.beaulieu at sympatico.ca> Subject: SC - for recipe fans liana_winsauer_at_con016p2 at dnrmail.state.il.us wrote: > here's my recipe for > quick and easy beef barley soup, er, bread spread: > > Liana's Beef Barley Barely Soup > 1/2 to 1 cup pearl barley > 1 can french onion soup mix > 1 can cream of mushroom soup > 1 can beef broth (preferrably low-salt) > mix all ingredients together, simmer for an hour or two, or cook in a > crock pot on LOW all day. Use less barley for longer cooking times, > as it will continue to grow as long as it has liquid, eventually > taking over your whole kitchen. Serve with or on bread. > > Liana Winsauer > liana_winsauer at dnrmail.state.il.us Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 10:37:01 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Re: SC - for recipe fans > here's my recipe for > quick and easy beef barley soup, er, bread spread: I dunno why this was forwarded from the Middle Kingdom list to the Cooks list. But just for fun, here is my followup: And as an apology for another no-fun posting, here's my recipe for quick and easy beef barley soup, er, bread spread: I frequently make barley soup.... A suggestion, if you will. Start with stock, and whatever ingredients you care to use. (I tend to cook from scratch, I like it better.) Saute whatever veggies you are going to use, add the broth, and simmer for a VERY long time. Once the flavor is maximally into the broth, add the barley and let it expand and boil. It makes a richer soup. I tend to use onions, garlic, mushrooms, and whatever else strikes my fancy. Herbs include black pepper, bay leaf, possibly sage, a sprinkle of mustard, etcetera. A tiny touch of dried parsley is nice. Tibor Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:10:03 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: SC - Reposting Brotchan Foltchep Recipe... Mark Harris wrote: > For us uneducated masses, what is Brotchan Foltchep? I think you've > mentioned it before. A stew? Soup? Recipe please. Here it is...I think we've seen this one before. Loosely adapted from Malachai McCormick's "Irish Country Cooking" (the best Irish cookbook I've seen), but apparently of much greater antiquity, having been mentioned and described in the writings of St. Colmcille, c. 597 C.E. There's no telling how the original differs from this, though. I am assuming that Colmcille's dish was a bit more austere. Brotchan Foltchep, a.k.a. Brotchan Roy Serves 6 3 or 4 medium-size leeks, about 1 1/2 pounds 1/4 to 1/2 stick butter (1 - 2 ounces) 2 cups chicken or vegetable stock 2 cups milk 1/2 cup heavy cream 3/4 cup raw, steel-cut porridge oats, like McAnns Parsley (flat Italian, chopped) for garnishing salt and white pepper to taste Wash the leeks well. They are usually muddy and sandy. Remove any visible dirt or grit. Trim off the root ends and discard. Starting at the white, root ends, slice the leeks thinly. Place in a deep bowl of cold water, and rub the leeks between your hands, gently, to separate the rings and encourage the last of the grit to sink to the bottom. Lift the leek slices off the surface till the bowl has nothing left in it but water and mud. Drain the leeks in a strainer and set aside. In a large, deep saucepan, bring the stock and milk to a simmer. Stir in the oats, bring almost to a boil, and simmer for 20-30 minutes, or until the oats are done. While the oats are simmering, melt the butter in a deep saute pan, over low heat. Sweat the leeks for five or ten minutes, until they begin to soften. When the oats are about half done, add the leeks and their butter to the pan of soup. The leeks and the oatmeal should be done at the same time. Take the pot off the heat, stir in the cream, and season with salt and white pepper to taste. Garnish with the parsley. Adamantius Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 19:14:46 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Reposting Brotchan Foltchep Recipe... James and/or Nancy Gilly wrote: > >Brotchan Foltchep, a.k.a. Brotchan Roy > > > >Serves 6 <blah blah blah> > So at what point do you add the whiskey? Along with the cream? Directly > into the serving dish? At the table? Just a few minutes before serving. You want it to have a fresh flavor, but don't want enormous clouds of volatile alcohol fumes. At least, I don't think you do... . Last year, I served haggis at an event, and came out of the kitchen, and spoke to the folks in the hall, describing how the haggis is now traditionally escorted into the dining hall by pipers (a kazoo band), flaming (a couple of lit sparklers inserted at strategic points) with a fine malt whisky (Laphroaig, this time, of which I poured myself a single shot, raised my glass in salute to the crowd, and went back into the kitchen, clutching the bottle). Adamantius Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:12:51 +0000 From: Karen at agent.infodata.com (Harris, Karen) To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: OOP Cheese soup recipe Cariadoc's Miscellany includes not one, but TWO period cheese soup recipes: "Green Broth of Eggs and Cheese" from Le Menagier de Paris (France ca. 1395), and "Zanzarella" from De Honesta Voluptate (Venice ca. 1475). They can both be found at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/soups.html Karen Larsdatter Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:23:49 -0600 From: Sinclair <jeffdp at earthlink.net> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Cheese Soup...Help!! There is a recipe for cheese soup in Pleyn Dilit: Medieval Cookery for Modern Cooks by Constance Hieatt & Sharon Butler. In my copy it's on page 5. Soup of Milk, eggs, cheese 6 hard boiled eggs 3 cups milk 1/2-1 cup breadcrumbs(depending on how finely ground, or 3 TBSP rice flour or cornstarch 1/4 tsp ground cumin 1/4 tsp ground saffron 1/2 tsp salt about 3/4 cup soft or semi-soft cheese cut into pieces Beat together egg yolks, milk, and all other ingredients except the egg wites and the cheese (use a blender). Cook, stirring constantly, in a pan over medium heat until thick. Mince the egg whites and add them to the hot liquid along with the cheese. Stir for a few minutes more before serving. The author atttributes the recipe to Ancient Cookery, a appendage to the 14th C Forme of Cury published in London in the 18th C. Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:38:01 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Stew/Soup. At 10:22 AM -0800 12/17/97, Russell Gilman-Hunt wrote: >I was wondering if anyone had a tasty redaction for a lentil stew/ >soup dish that they had tried for a group of people? This is one of our standards, both for events and at home. From the _Miscellany_. - --- Cooked Dish of Lentils al-Andalusi p. C-5 (no. 377) (Good) Wash lentils and put them to cook in a pot with sweet water, oil, pepper, coriander and cut onion. When they are cooked throw in salt, a little saffron and vinegar; break three eggs, leave for a while on the flame and later retire the pot. Other times cook without onion. If you wish cook it with Egyptian beans pricked into which have been given a boil. Or better with dissolved yeast over a gentle fire. When the lentils begin to thicken add good butter or sweet oil, bit by bit, alike until it gets absorbed, until they are sufficiently cooked and have enough oil. Then retire it from the flame and sprinkle with pepper. 1 1/2 c dried lentils = 10 oz 2 medium onions = 1/2 lb (Egyptian beans) 2 1/4 c water 3/4 t salt (yeast) 1 1/2 T oil 12 threads saffron 4 T butter (or oil) 3/8 t pepper 2 T vinegar more pepper 1 1/2 t coriander 4 eggs Slice onions. Put lentils, water, oil, pepper, coriander and onion in a pot, bring to a boil, and turn down to a bare simmer. Cook covered 50 minutes, stirring periodically. Add butter or oil and cook while stirring for about 5 minutes. Add salt, saffron (crushed into 1 t water) and vinegar, and bring back to a boil. Put eggs on top, cover pot and keep lentils at a simmer; stir cautiously every few minutes in order to scrape the bottom of the pot without stirring in the eggs. We find that if the heat is off, the eggs don't cook; if the heat is up at medium, the eggs cook, but the lentils start to stick to the pot. A larger quantity might hold enough heat to cook the eggs without leaving it on the flame. When the eggs are cooked, sprinkle with a little more pepper and serve. Makes 5 1/4 c. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:17:41 EST From: Tyrca <Tyrca at aol.com> Subject: Re: SC - Marrow Dishes: Osso Bucco << with mustard or ("dessotra"....I couldn't find this word) & on top of the plates, cast parsley, because that looks nice & it is very good. Dan Gillespie >> It may sound strange, but from the Porteguese I know, I think dessotra would mean "some others" or "something else". In the period you are working with, Porteguese was barely recognized as a seperate language, and not just one of the Spanish dialects. It sounds like they add their favorite greens to wilt at the end as they serve. Tyrca Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:34:45 -0500 From: David Friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Soups... >I would be most interested in any info on period soups. My current research >indicates that period soups/stews (or at least period recipes for the same are >pretty much the meat-onion-spice combo with no extraneous vegies or other >ingredients. > >Ras Take a look at the soup section in the _Miscellany_. We have: A Potage with Turnips Platina pp. 117-118 (book 7) Rapes in Potage [or Carrots or Parsnips] Curye on Inglysch p. 99 (Forme of Cury no. 7) Potage from Meat Platina p. 116 (book 7) (includes breadcrumbs, eggs, and cheese) Potage of Beans Boiled Curye on Inglysch p. 77 (Diuersa Servicia no. 81) Green Broth of Eggs and Cheese Menagier p. M-22 and others. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:46:14 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - [fwd] Medieval pasta The "Libro de Guisados" has a recipe for "Potaje de Fideos" which is soup with pasta. I do not know what medieval fideos were like; modern Spanish dictionaries and cookbooks suggest vermicelli as the closest match. The recipe, BTW, calls for the fideos to be cooked in well-salted chicken or mutton broth, along with a piece of sugar. Milk is added to the broth (goat, sheep or almond), and the omnipresent cinnamon-and-sugar are sprinkled on top before serving. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:47:36 EST From: melc2newton at juno.com (Michael P Newton) Subject: SC - my russian inn- a success well, winter challenge has come and gone and my inn was quite well received (the feast is another story, and so another post). I ended up serving a borscht that was a clear soup, what a lovely red!, and three types of turnovers- pork and vegetable (the most popular), cheese (which was a little on the salty side, being a combo of feta and farmer's cheese) and walnuts. For drinks, I served margaret's grape juice and vinegar concoction previously posted on this list, and coffee (I know, I know, <sigh>). My main problem is that I didn't make enough turnovers; if I had known in advance how popular they were going to be I would have made a lot more than 25 of each. The borsch was raved over by those brave enough to try it, but it was a nice sunny day here in Oakheart (that's Springfield, MO, for whoever wanted to know where we were all at) and not a lot of people were interested in soup (now if we had a blizzard....) the recipes all came from Festive Ukrainian Feasts, and are traditional rather than period; although I did double check in the Domostroi to see if they were at least period-oid. Meatless Beet Soup (Pisnyi borsch) 2 lbs beets 1 carrot 1 parsnip 1 turnip 2 celery ribs 2 medium onions 1 bay leaf 3-4 peppercorns 3 dried boletus or 1/2 lbs chopped mushrooms 1 quart of beet Kvas or 1 teaspoon sour salt (crystallized citric acid) 2 tsp salt 1 tsp ground pepper 2 tsp fresh chopped dill Soak boletus overnight. Cook in a little water until tender. [I used the button mushrooms so I skipped this step] Scrub beets and cut into quarters. Cover with water and cook over low heat until tender, about 1 to 2 hours. Cool and pour off liquid [save this, you'll need it later]. slip off peels. [the fun part!] This may be done a day in advance. Peel and cut up the other vegetables. Add bay leaf, peppercorns and mushrooms to vegetables, with enough water to cover and cook in a large non-aluminum pot over low heat until tender. Strain beet liquid into vegetables. Shred beets and add. Simmer for about 10 minutes and strain into a large pot. To keep broth clear, do not press the vegetables.[I did, it wasn't, oh well]Add souring agent, mushroom liquid [if you did the first step] pepper, and salt. Bring to a gentle boil then turn heat low. Taste; the flavor should be tart, mellow, and full. For more tartness[you should need this, to me, it was plenty tart - but then growing up in the midwest may have something to do with that], add fresh lemon juice or sour salt. Keeps well in refrigerator. Reheat gently; do not overcook or the color will turn brown. Garnish with chopped dill. Since this is getting long, I'll give the turnover recipes in another post. Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:35:31 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Remedies (was: SC - coffee/tea)--long At 9:46 PM -0500 2/2/98, Angelique wrote: >So I'm not talking from any period knowledge >base, here, just assuming that a period young woman might have done the >same, were she schooled in how to make those 'tisanes', for household >healing (Also, some are for general health, and could reasonably be >taken with each meal, or daily). (And maybe they didn't call them >tisanes,- Grandma did) And while I cannot vouch for periodicity, as I >will determine the ingredients myself, using what I know will work and >considering what is on hand, (much as I figure my period counterpart >would do)if you would care to let me know what kind of remedy/healing >property you would like to invoke, I will prepare a recipe for you. >I do realise that these would probably not be used for a feast, as the >remedy offered would have to change for each individual, depending upon >their condition, ... This reminds me of my favorite period chicken soup recipe, from Chiquart. Don't blame me for the style--I just translated it. 65. And to give understanding to him who will make the restorative let him arrange that he has a fair and large double flask of glass, as strong as can be found, and then let him wash and rinse it very well and carefully; and, being well washed, let him set it on a wooden trencher or little board and have it held on this strongly by cords and ties. And then let him arrange that he has a large well-fattened capon or two according to the quantity which he wants to make of the restorative and let him pluck, clean, and wash it very well and then drain the water off it very well; and, being well drained, chop it very fine, the meat and the bones also all together, then put it into the said flask, and three ounces or so of good rosewater and also as much of fair fresh water and a little bit of salt, and an ounce or more of fine pearls which should be put in a very little bag made of fair and clean cloth of strong silk or linen, and also very good, virtuous, valiant and worthy precious stones, that is diamonds, pearls, rubies, sapphires, turquoises, emeralds, coral, amber, jasper, jacinth, chalcedonies(?), onyx, crystal, chalcedonies, smaragdus [emerald? malachite?], sardonyx, sard, chrysolites [peridot?], beryls, topazes, chrysoprase, and amethysts, and all other good and virtuous precious stones-of all these only those ordered by the doctor; and let them be put together in another little bag made of white and clean linen cloth, and strong enough that it will never break so that the stones cannot mix with the said capon meat; and also with sixty or eighty or more pieces of fine gold, ducats and jewels and other pieces which should first be very well washed in three or four changes of lukewarm water, and very well dried off with the corner of a very fair, white, and clean linen cloth, and then each of the gold coins should be folded into a cylinder(?) so that they can fit through the neck of the aforesaid flask; and put them in carefully and gently and so that they fall into the capon meat so that they do not break the said flask, and then stop it very well so that no steam comes out. And, this being done, arrange that there is a clear, fair, and clean pot large enough that the said flask can easily be put into it, and let the neck of the said flask be tied to two sticks, and let the said sticks be tied to the said pot so that when the water in the said pot boils the waves and boiling of the said water cannot make the said flask move, shake, or be thrown out of the pot; and then fill the said pot with fair fresh water and then put it on a fair fire of coals and let it cook continually; and also arrange that next to it there is another pot full of fair water and let it be boiling constantly so that as the pot in which is the said flask boils it can always be refilled with the said boiling water, because one who put fresh water in would break the flask, and all the work of what is being made would be lost. And when the said restorative is well cooked let him arrange that he has a small piece of good board and let him heat it very well close to the fire, and when it is sufficiently dried and heated he should also have a little cloth and heat it well also, and then put it folded several times on the said hot board; and then gently take the flask out of the pot in which it is and set it onto the said hot cloth and board and let it cool there until he can hold it comfortably without burning himself. And when it is thus sufficiently cooled let him arrange that he has a good, new, fair, and clean strainer which has never been used before and let him put it over a fair gold dish and empty onto it his restorative which is in the said flask; and if one does not want to empty it quickly let him arrange that he has a fair and clean little wooden hook and stick it into the said flask and draw out what is inside; and when everything is out let him take his little bags of pearls and precious stones and the aforesaid gold pieces, and then squeeze and twist what is left strongly and properly in the said strainer; and, being very well strained and caught in the said gold dish, let him empty it again into a gold pan and then carry it to the sick person who should receive it and use it according to the doctor's orders. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:19:33 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Buckwheat-sca-cooks V1 #645 At 2:47 PM -0900 3/16/98, Anne M. Young wrote: >Greetings, List, from one of your lurkers- >I had to comment on the buckwheat topic. Having worked with unroasted >buckwheat for russian kasha (which is generic for grain) but is made as a >porrige of pilaf style grain dish, ... Domostroi is an end-of-period russian household management book with a very few recipes; it was translated by Carolyn Johnston Pouncy, Cornell University Press: Ithaca 1994. Here is one using kasha, with our version out of the Miscellany. Russian Cabbage and Greens Domostroi pp. 162-3 Chop cabbage, greens, or a mixture of both very fine, then wash them well. Boil or steam them for a long time. On meat days, put in red meat, ham, or a little pork fat; add cream or egg whites and warm the mixture. During a fast, saturate the greens with a little broth, or add some fat and steam it well. Add some groats, salt, and sour cabbage soup; then heat it. Cook kasha the same way: steam it well with lard, oil, or herring in a broth. [end of original] Note: the ingredient translated as "sour cabbage soup" turns up elsewhere in the Domostroi in lists of things to brew: "For brewing beer, ale, or sour cabbage soup, take malt or meal and hops. Beer from the first grade makes good sour cabbage soup. You can make vinegar, too, from a good mash." This suggests that it may really be something like alegar (beer vinegar). We therefore substitute malt vinegar. Version 1 2 3/4 lb green cabbage (1 head) 3/4 lb turnip greens 3 c water meat: 1 1/2 lb beef or lamb 6 egg whites 1 c dry buckwheat groats (kasha) 2 t salt "sour cabbage soup": 4 t malt vinegar Version 2 2 lb green cabbage (1 head) 5/8 lb mustard greens 2 1/2 c water 1 1/4 lb pork butt roast 1/2 c cream 4/3 c dry buckwheat groats (kasha) 1 1/2 t salt "sour cabbage soup": 1 T malt vinegar Chop cabbage and greens very fine. Bring water to a boil, add cabbage and greens and simmer 30-40 minutes covered. Cut meat into bite-sized chunks. Add meat and simmer another 25 minutes (this time probably depends on the cut of meat). Add groats, salt and vinegar, and cook another 15 minutes uncovered on moderate heat, until the liquid is almost absorbed. Stir in egg whites or cream, heat for a minute or two, and remove from heat. These are two possible interpretations of a recipe with lots of alternatives. In particular, it is not clear whether the groats, salt, and "sour cabbage soup" belong only to the fast-day version or to both meat-day and fast-day versions; we have assumed the latter. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:01:26 -0400 From: Bonne <oftraquair at hotmail.com> Subject: SC - Mongolian food-not Bogdan din Brasov's mongolian food query reminds me to follow up on one of the first messages I posted to this list: a request for assistance with food to sell for lunch at an event called "Cossacks,Mongols and Huns". When I volunteered to cook, my mind had fixated on the word Cossacks and I related it to Russia. My request here for food appropriate to the event title didn't really result in anything that quite fit my needs. Stefan probably directed me to his files, but I was reading from work then and evidently didn't have time to follow up on the mongolian files he directs Bogdan to. Or my cossack fixation made me ignore them. At any rate, my research took me as far as the Durham county library. I found there a number of books on Russian cooking. Most were quite obviously recalling the food of the Czar's in the 1800's, interesting, but not what I wanted. The only recipe noted as being Cossack at some point in history involved far too much meat to fit my budget! With time running short, I finally settled for "Black Bread Soup" from "Classic Russian Cuisine", by Alla Sacharow. It fit several of my requirements: cheap, vegetarian, and being a warming stew that would be a good seller at a fighting event outdoors in March. This stew falls into murky non-documentation category of "the peasants had stewpots, so they _could_ have cooked this". Even at the time I'd learned better, but it was too late to start over. The actual recipe follows, my variations because of availability and a big OOPS! are listed below. I mutiplied out to serve 40, and only took enough home for my family of 4 to have one bowlful each Sunday night. Black Bread Soup Sup iz chornovo khleba For 4 2 carrots diced 6 stalks celery, cut in 1 inch pieces 1 parsley root, peeled and diced 1 medium onion, chopped 1 Tablespoon butter 1 quart water salt, pepper 1/2 pound black bread, sliced, and dried or toasted 1/2 cup dried peas (green or yellow) soaked overnight 1 small black radish 1 carrot 2 stalks celery 6-8 stalks asparagus 1/4 spinach, chopped 1 bunch dill, chopped 1 leek, chopped (white part only) 1 bunch parsley, chopped Boil the peas 1 and 1/2 hour, mean while saute 2 carrots, celery,parsley root and onion in butter. Add one quart water, salt,pepper, and cook 1/2 hour Add bread to soup pot and simmer an additional hour Puree the vegetables and bread and return to pot , heat soup again coarsely grate the radish, carrot and celery, cut asparagus into pieces add all vegetables to soup with cooked peas. Cook 10 more minutes serve garnished with leeks and parsley Variations, I was told parsley root = parsnips and so used them. I couldn't find what black radish was, and so also added parsnip to the final mix of vegetables, as well as the pureed broth. Asparagus being too expensive for me to keep the serving price I needed, I left it out. It's usually not to bad in March and I wanted to add a small amount, but El Nino ruined the early crop according to the grocer. Rather than garnishing with the leeks, I included them in the chopped veg. Garnishing isn't really suitable to serving soup in cups by the listfield. At the event soup pot simmered all day, being re-filled and brought to a hard boil now and again, I prepped the soup the night before to the point of adding the chopped vegetables, then chilled it in containers the same size as my double boiler. This kept the vegetables from cooking into a total mush before serving. OOPS! I managed to leave the peas out of the soup served at the event. I discovered this only upon returning home on Sunday to find them still soaking! I'd thought the soup I was serving seemed to be sticking less and had a little less body than in my trial run, but the customers liked it fine. It was kind of sweet, the peas might have balanced this. Bonne Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:14:22 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Will's- more recipes Here are the few recipes my co-feastocrat at Will's Revenge, His Lordship Thorstein, was willing to share. :-) Sorry for the lack of documentation but this isn't my work. Enjoy. They are wonderful. :-) Green almond soup ca 2 cups spinach (tightly packed down whole leaves about * lb. raw) 3-4 scallions, cut in pieces 2-3 sprigs parsley 6 cups water 1 1/2 teaspoon salt 1 tsp. sugar 8 oz ground almonds Bring the water to a boil, adding salt; put in spinach and scallions and boil about 4 minutes; then add parsley, boil for a few more seconds, them remove from the heat. Drain, reserving the cooking water. Chop the vegetables very fine or put in a blender with the almonds and a little of the reserved water, and blend. Stir together the greens, almonds, and all of the reserved water, adding the sugar, in the saucepan, and return to the stove. Simmer together gently for about five minutes. Serve hot or cold. <snip of other recipes> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:18:51 -0500 From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Subject: Re: SC - Tartlettes. I agree with His Grace's description. What you come up with is a little like the won ton soup--the ravioli/dumpling like thing floating in the broth with bits of pork in it, too. A German version is _Maultaschen_ [ox pockets]. This contains, in present day Stuttgart, spinach in the broth, as well. Chicken broth is preferred. China Won ton soup Italy Ravioles in broth Germany Maultaschan (beef, not pork) a number of similar recipes in Granat Apfel, but none with pork England Tartlettes [Jewish: Kreplach -meadhbh] Allison Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:37:11 -0400 From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net> Subject: SC - Harvest Days in (near) Dayton, Ohio I was heading out the door for my second favorite event of the year (my first being the first week of Pennsic) and a message came over the Internet that they would NOT be serving lunch. As it happened, I had a smoked ham, about 6 1/2 lbs, so I figured I'd try to come up with something for lunch. I packed my gas grill, a large pot, and e-mailed Lord Ras for suggestions. While I was waiting, I went and looked in my Platina, and found a suggestion- cook ham in orange juice, so with Lord Ras' suggestions, this is what I came up with. It certainly wasn't period because of the vegetables mixed with the meat, but I would consider it the peri-oid sort of thing that a cook might throw together if unexpectedly asked to feed a crowd on short notice, this time of year. The following is the message I posted on the lunch table. LUNCH Bread Sweet and Savory Ham and Cabbage Soup $2.00 or Donation If you're broke, eat anyway- no-one goes away from my table hungry. Past expenses, all funds will go to Their Royal Majesties Travel Fund from a Suggestion in Platina: Soup- Water, orange juice, smoked ham, cabbage, onions, carrots, pepper, garlic, cinnamon, cloves The soup went over very well. Even though certain people managed to fish out almost all the ham, the broth was good enough that people were coming back for more in order to dip their bread. I deliberately did not serve butter with the bread since not only is it not period, but I wanted them to use the broth for dipping. The only complaint I got was second-hand from a vegetarian who was used to a vegetarian option for lunch, but under the circumstances, it went very well. If I do this again, hopefully with a bit more notice, I will see that there's a vegetarian thing as well. Meantime, anyone want to share stories and recipes about things they've cobbled together in a hurry? Phlip Caer Frig Barony of the Middle Marches Middle Kingdom Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:23:54 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: SC - Biscotti, brodo of chickpeas, chard poree I was off board at Namron Protectorate (Northern Ansteorra) this weekend, helping some fellow cooks prepare a small celebratory dinner for the 10th wedding anniversary of Baroness Gwyneth of Ramsey Mere. I handled the breads, producing cheese bread for casual snacking, and wheat bread, Tuscan almond schiacciata and biscotti. I also had the opportunity to make a soup and a vegetable dish from The Medieval Kitchen. I made the chickpea soup from Martino's Libro de arte coquinaria and the chard poree from Le Menagier de Paris. Both dishes were very well received. The recipes follow. Bear Brodo of red chickpeas. To make eight platefuls: take a libra and a half (1 libra = about 10 1/2 oz. (300 g.)) of chickpeas and wash them in hot water, drain them, the put them in a pot in which they will be cooked. Add half an oncia (1 oncia = about 1 oz. (30 g.)) of flower (of wheat), a little good oil, a little salt and about 20 crushed peppercorns and a little ground cinnamon, then thoroughly mix all these things together with your hands. Then add three measures of water, a little sage, rosemary and parsley roots. Boil until it is reduced to the quantity of eight platefuls. And when they are nearly cooked pour in a little oil. And if you prepare this soup for invalids, add neither oil nor spices. I didn't have red chickpeas, so I substituted dried yellow. The soup was to feed 24, so I cleaned and soaked 4 cups of chickpeas overnight. Should I prepare this again, I'll use 5 cups of chickpeas per 24 people. I crushed about 25 peppercorns and stirred them, about 4 tablespoons of flour, and 1 teaspoon of ground cinnamon into a 1/4 cup of olive oil. I drained the chickpeas and mixed them and the spiced oil in a large pot. I covered the chickpeas with water and brought it to a boil. A gray-brown scum formed on the surface and was skimmed off. I had to add more pepper in the cooking, so if I make this quatity again, I'll start with about 40 peppercorns. The heat was set set to low and the soup simmered for about two hours. I added a teaspoon of rubbed sage, a teaspoon of rosemary needles crushed into the pot and 3 tablespoons of fresh parsley (no root available). Toward the end of the cooking I added about a teaspoon and a half of salt for seasoning. The soup is rich and flavorful. Everyone at the dinner tried it and the majority found it to be excellent. It reheats well. I would be tempted to use this recipe at a feast. As I prepared it, the recipe makes just under a gallon or one cup of soup per person. Using 5 cups of chickpeas per 24 people insures that everyone will get fed without having to scrape the bottom of the pot. Chard poree. A poree of chard that is washed then cut up and boiled will stay greener than one that is first boiled, then chopped.. But it will stay even greener if it is trimmed, washed, cut up, and soaked in two changes of cold water, then, after drying it by handfuls, put it into the pot to boil with broth, fat pork and mutton broth; when it has cooked a little and you wish to serve it, top it with trimmed, washed and chopped parsley and a little young fennel; bring it to the boil only once. I took 4 bunches of red chard and cut the leaves from the stems. I also cut out some of the heavier veining in the leaves, but that was possible excessive. I washed the leaves in a collander and soaked them in cold water. I cut the leaves into strips and put them back in cold water. When I had finished, I drained the leaves and packed them in large ziplock bags to take to the site. My meat broth had gone bad, so I was stuck using beef boullion. I sliced up about six ounces of salt pork and added it to the boullion while I brought it to a boil. The mutton shank and the parsley didn't make it to the site. No fennel bulb was locally available. I did not add salt to the bouillon. I brought the bouillon to a boil, then added the chard, having to wait as the greens wilted and opened space in the pot. After about 15 minutes, it was ready to serve. The people who like greens declared it superb. The people who don't like greens didn't eat it. I don't particularly care for greens, but found the dish edible. Four bunches made about enough for 12 people. Should I do this again (my wife wants me to do it at home), I'll use meat broth, although the bouillon made an acceptable substitute. I will cut the salt pork very fine so that any pieces of salt pork tangled in the greens will not be noticeable. I am considering how to reduce the fat for a friend who is diabetic and likes greens. I had to hold the dish for about 20 minutes and to me there was a noticeable textural change although it was still acceptable. This dish should be served immediately upon cooking. Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:37:21 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Squash soup-recipe uther at lcc.net writes: << I would love the recipes for the...<snip>.... squash soup. >> Pumpkin Soup (Squash) Redaction copyright L. J. Spencer, Jr. 1998 Original from Le Viandier (VT XV 181). Translation taken from 'The Medieval Kitchen"; O. Redon. F. Sabban, S. Serventi. Trranslated by E. Schneider. Squash. For squash, peel them and cut them into slices. Remove the seeds if there are any and cook them in water in a pan, then drain them and rinse in cold water; squeeze them and chop them finely; mix with some beef broth and other meat broth and add cow's milk, and mix half a dozen egg yolks, put through a sieve, into the broth and milk; on fast days (use) the cooling water from (dried) peas, or almond ,ilk, and butter. 6 cups Italian edible gourd, peeled and sliced (you may substitute zucchini) 2 cups beef broth 1 cup chicken broth 3/4 cup whole milk 6 egg yolks, beaten Salt, to taste Put gourd slices into a pan. Cover with water. Bring to a boil. Reduce heat to simmer. Simmer until gourd is fork tender but not mushy. Drain. Rinse in cold water. Drain well carefully pressing out excess water. Finely chop cooked gourd. Bring broth to a boil. Add chopped gourd. Add milk, stirring continuously while pouring. Reduce heat to low. Remove a small portion of the broth and mix with egg yolks. Using a whisk, slowly pour yolks into gourd mixture. Immedieately remove from heat. Add salt to taste. (NOTE: Garnish with whatever is at hand (e.g. chopped parsley or the unused egg white which has been poached, rinsed, drained and choped)). Serve. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:56:16 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com> To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: Mushroom Soup Found this recipe from The Forme of Cury c1390:- This is simple enough. Take as many mushrooms as required, clean, pare and cut into small pieces. Put into a pan with shredded leek and plenty of good broth. Colour and flavour with saffron and add spices to taste. 1lbs, mushrooms to 1 leek, to 2 pts broth, saffron 1 pinch, spices nutmeg, mace, cinnamon, a touch of sugar ? this would be my interpretation of it. I tend to use field or horse mushrooms for my soups, but as this mentiones saffron for colour, they must of been using them early or another type, as my mushroom soup tends to be almost black (I love it very tasty) but no amount of saffron would colour it :) Mel Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:33:57 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - trencher history guesses > -Poster: Jean Holtom <Snowfire at mail.snet.net> > > If the bread doesn't meet the specifications, it's a > >sop. Daily bread was used as a sop by all classes. Sops were eaten, not > >given away. > > Did "Sop" gave us "Supper" and "Soup" then? > > Elysant As I understand it, a sop could be either a soup or the bread dipped in the soup, although soup in this usage might mean drippings. And I believe you are correct that sop is the root of soup and supper. Bear Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:18:51 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: SC - Cheese soup At 10:17 AM -0500 3/12/99, Jeff Gedney wrote: >Does anyone have nay references to a dish that would now be called >"cheese soup". I have been requested to find one for easter dinner. From le Menagier de Paris by way of the Miscellany: Green Broth of Eggs and Cheese Menagier p. M-22 Take parsley and a little cheese and sage and a very small amount of saffron, moistened bread, and mix with water left from cooking peas, or stock, grind and strain: And have ground ginger mixed with wine, and put on to boil; then add cheese and eggs poached in water, and let it be a bright green. Item, some do not add bread, but instead of bread use bacon. [end of original] 3 T parsley 1/2 oz cheese, grated 3 small leaves fresh sage 5 threads saffron 2 thin slices = 1.5 oz white bread (or bacon) 2 c pea stock or dilute chicken stock 1/8 t ginger 1 T white wine 1 3/4 oz cheese, grated 3 eggs Soak bread in stock (either water left from cooking peas or 1/2 c canned chicken broth + 1 1/2 c water). Grind parsley, sage, and saffron in a mortar thoroughly; add 1/2 oz cheese and soaked bread and grind together. Strain through a strainer; if necessary, put back in mortar what didn't go through, grind again, and strain again. Mix wine and ginger, add to mixture, and bring to a boil over moderate heat; be careful that it does not stick to the bottom. Stir in the rest of the cheese; break eggs into soup, and continue to simmer until eggs are poached. Note: We have used both Gouda and cheddar cheese; both are good. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:27:24 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: SC - Sour Cabbage Soup? Regarding sour cabbage soup as an ingredient -- After a bell went off in my head, I went and looked for the relevant passage in Paul Kovi's "Transylvanian Cuisine". It says: "NOTE: Cibere, the fine cracked wheat or sour bran soup, has a characteristic and unique taste. It is also rich in various vitamins. It is prepared in the following way, according to an ancient Transylvaniahn recipe: in a large jar or clay pot (about 10 quarts), combine 1 pound cracked wheat and 1/2 cup fresh corn. Add 1 slice of brown bread, 2 or 3 slices of lemon, and one sour cherry tree twig (with leaves). Add 5 quarts boiling water, stirring with a wooden spoon. Cover jar or pot and keep in a warm place, being careful to stir it at least two more times in the next 2 hours. After 24 hours, the cracked wheat will become sour. Strain, pour into smaller jars, and keep in a cold place for 8 days. Always retain a cupful of the mixture to use as a fermentation starter for the next batch. " Now, there's apparently a similar preparation of soured milk, which is boiled until semi-solid and then stored in jars, used similarly to flavor soups and stews. We needn't get into how "ancient" this recipe is, with its use of what appears to be maize, etc. Given that in both cases there appears to be some kind of lactobacilic fermentation going on, as there is also with sauerkraut, which is also fairly common in Rumanian cookery, and also given that modern Russian Jews sometimes eat a soup called schav, which is nowadays often made with sorrell, but which I have been told used to be made with cabbage, I wonder if the cabbage version of schav is what the author of the Domestroi is talking about. A friend of mine of Russian Jewish ancestry disdainfully told me, "So my ancestors used to drink rancid sauerkraut juice. Whaddaya want from me?" Speculative, yes, but I wonder... Adamantius Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:03:06 -0500 From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Domostroi Recipes >Have you checked the original of the term that she translates as "sour >cabbage soup?" In context, it sounds as though it might be alegar or >something similar. > >David/Cariadoc I thought you'd like to know that. :) The original term is "kislye shchi", which does literally translate to "sour/fermented cabbage soup" (shchi). **************************************************************************** Conjectures follow: I am wondering if it (the sour cabbage soup) might just be the juice lef