sel-frts-veg-msg - 6/28/00 Comments on selecting the best individual fruits and vegetables. NOTE: See also the files: fruits-msg, vegetables-msg, fruit-apples-msg, root-veg-msg, gourds-msg, fruit-citrus-msg, leeks-msg, turnips-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:39:49 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables "Laura C. Minnick" wrote: > Stefan li Rous wrote: > > No one has answered the main question of my message, though. I was looking > > for suggestions on how to select the best fruits and vegetables in the > > loose produce stacks at the grocery or farmer's market. > > Follow around the older women- 60-70 is my guess, and ask their advice. > They'd probably be tickled to have a 'young fellow' asking their > opinion! And they usually know... at least my gramma is better at > produce than I am (and I'm pretty good...) > > 'Lainie Just watch out for the old ladies that squeeze and pinch everything, a la "Tampopo"; you'll wind up in jail, and the worst part will be having to explain that you were just trying to learn which were the good cantaloupes... Seriously, Stefan, what you asked was a difficult question to answer because the parameters are different for every vegetable and fruit. Much as it kills me to suggest it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were some kind of quick reference on http://www.marthastewart.com . See if there's anything about choosing produce at the USDA site. Another good place to look would be, if you have such things where you are, a farmer's market, usually sponsored by your state's Department of Agriculture And Markets (okay, that's what New York State has; YMMV). They will often print up little flyers on the subject. You might also look and see if any authors such as, for example, Bruce Cost (who has a wonderfully encyclopedic tome on Asian produce), have written something that answers your questions. You might also check vegetarian, organic and/or whole food cookbooks, the rationale being if you're going to eat only vegetables, you don't want to eat bad ones. In general, in the case of fruits, there should be a pronounced fruit aroma (presumably of the fruit that it is!), especially if the fruit is at or near room temperature. Remember part of the fruit's job is to attract animals that'll spread the seeds around. Fruit and vegetables should [almost] never feel light for their size; this is something best learned by experience, but in general you want denser fruits and veggies that are heavier than the others of their approximate volume. You don't want to find a big empty space filled with caterpillars or something, hence this warning, not to mention getting more food for your money. Melons and things which do legitimately have a cavity, you want to have thick walls and a lot of flesh, so again you want them to be heavy. Some should be squeezable (NOT a la "Tampopo"!), others, such as quinces and, of course, turnips, won't be, ideally. Apples of almost all types, some pears, and quinces, as I've said, in addition to most root vegetables, will be pretty hard. (Soft, wiggly root vegetables indicates either that they're dried out or that they've been frozen. Same for green beans and asparagus, which, BTW, should neither be the subject of sexual fantasy nor pencil-thin. Awright, I bet I'm in trouble for that one. Please form an orderly line; everyone will get a shot at me in the order in which you queue up.) As you can see, I could probably go on like this for, well, maybe forever. You can either approach this problem by looking for specific information about, say, turnips, which I'm sure lots of people on this list can help with, or try one of the other, more comprehensive methods above. Adamantius Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:06:26 -0500 From: "Tim & Dee" Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables Greetings to the list and to Lord Stefan. I spent my youth working for different family members in either the greenhouse/farm market or at the large roadside stand. We usually rotate our stock down the oldest out in front. This is also the reason that super markets have sloped displays .Right after high school I worked for a large super market in the pittsburgh area and this is also how they rotated our produce. We would cull out any blemished or bad produce daily and either throw it out or depending on the product rewrap it and put it on a reduced rack. Knowing how long you will be keeping the produce and what it is to be used for will effect the degree of ripeness that you buy them at. In example apples if being used for pies or sauce they can be prepared and canned or frozen until they are needed . If they are to be served fresh the time of the year and space or room you have to store them will dictate as to when you should buy them and this goes for most any produce. Another way is to read the descriptions on or in seed packets/catalogs as to what ready to use produce should look be like. If all else fails ask your mom, grandma, aunts who are good cooks and shoppers. Laochlain Silverwolfe, Member of House Firebrand, Shire of SunderOak, Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:12:59 -0500 From: "Alderton, Philippa" Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables Adamantius is right- there are so many different types of fruit and vegetables, that it's pretty much a plant by plant proposition. For example, with tomatoes, you want bright red ones, with flesh of a certain firmness. What if they're yellow tomatoes? Or what if you want green tomatoes, for cooking? Adamantius sez: >and asparagus, which, BTW, should neither be the subject of sexual fantasy nor pencil-thin. < Here, he's about half accurate, despite his joking. While it is true that most commercial varieties are of a certain thickness in proportion to their length, there are varieties which are very thin and tender, as well as very thick and tender- my local stores carry several strains throughout the year at different times, depending on what's growing where. Most asparagus should be green- there are purplish varieties, some so purple they're almost black, and there are white varieties, some of which are so white they almost glow in the dark. It all boils down to experience, and the only way you're going to get experience is by bringing them home and trying them. You might experiment a bit, by bringing home a couple of whatever, and trying one immediately, and another after a few days sitting on your counter. Many fruits and vegetables are under-ripe because they ship them that way so they look good when they get here, others have been here a bit too long. Another question, is that some people like their f & v more or less ripe than other people do- bananas are an excellent example- it's kinda like, how do you like your meat cooked- rare, medium, or well done. With bananas, most people buy them by the bunch, which usually starts out green on the ends, matures into full yellow, then starts getting brownish spots on it. Some people look for the latter specificly for making banana bread, others think that's the only way to eat them, others will only eat them one of the first two ways, and others just don't care- they want a banana. The suggestions about checking with little old ladies is good but don't forget talking to your produce manager as well. They can tell you what has just arrived, and what has been there for a few days, and if they're not terribly busy, might take the time to show you about a specific item. Don't forget to look around, too, for giveaway recipes and produce information- a lot of stores are putting up racks with information about their produce (and meats) so people will try different things, and maybe buy more. Also, many stores are doing samples on weekends, with fresh f & v, either to showcase them, or to showcase a dip or spread. I used to joke, when I lived in Athens, that I was going down to my local grocery for lunch on Saturday afternoon, on all the samples ;-) When you are looking, though, you use several of your senses. First, you use your eyes- what colors are on the item? Does it have blemishes, or what appear to be blemishes? Some fruits do, at their peak of ripeness, others have blemishes which will cause no problems at all, for your purposes. Smell them- A was right on that- the smell will tell you a lot. He was also absolutely correct about feeling their weight. Gently squeezing them, with the softer skinned things, like tomatoes, peaches, etc, will help, too. And for melons, most of them you can tap gently with your knuckles. There is a sort of hollow thump, which varies a bit from melon to melon, which tells me where they are. Once you've looked them over, you then make your decisions- are they something you'll want to sit on your counter in a paper bag for a couple days, so they finish ripening? Are they perfect now, but they'll keep a couple days in the fridge, until the meal you planned for them? Are they good today, but will be past their prime tomorrow, so you want to cook them today? Or are they just plain too old, and you'll give them a pass- if you really need them for something, you'll look in the frozen food case? Phlip Philippa Farrour Caer Frig Southeastern Ohio Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:51:03 EST From: DianaFiona at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables In addition to all the good suggestions made so far, I seem to recall reading occasional articles in gardening magazines on how to tell if various veggies are ready to pick. You might, opportunity and time allowing, look in back issues of Organic Gardening, and perhaps Kitchen Garden, since those are the main ones I read. The information, best I remember, was both in separated articles on what's ripe when, and mixed in with articles highlighting individual fruits and veggies.............. Ldy Diana Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:52:01 -0800 From: Anne-Marie Rousseau Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables hey all from Anne-Marie on selection of produce here's a few tips my mommy and the nice man at the local independant grocery store told me.... 1. regular button mushrooms should be white. dirt is ok. no squishyparts, and the cap underneath should be sealed. Dont buy a lot of stem. 2. cantelopes should have a faint orange tint behind the "net". the place where the vine was should be slightly soft, and if you sniff there, you'll smell a nice melon smell. 3. asparagus should be local! and if you bend it, it should snap close to the root end, not up at the top, and not just bend 4. carrots when you go wiggle wiggle shouldnt flop around 5. different varieties of pears are at different hardnesses when ripe, so sniff 'em and if they smell like a nice ripe pear, you're good to go. Otherwise, buy one and eat it. if its good, buy more... 6. bananas should be unblemished and uniformly yellow. If you buy them green, let them sit in a paper bag or on the counter in a bowl with other fruit to ripen 7, avacados can be ripened in a bag too, and should be bought as squishy as possible, as long as they're uniformly squishy (ie ripe, not just mooshed) 8. As a general rule, bigger isnt better for fruits and veggies. Often the bigger ones are just woody or watery. 9. if you're buying herbs or greens in bags, avoid water in the container like the plague...this often means they've been frozen by accident and will go mushy in a day or so. 10. tomatoes should smell like tomatoes. If they dont, they wont have much flavor... 11. Bell peppers should be nice and shiney and unblemished, but most importantly, if you take your finger and rub the skin, it shouldnt wrinkle or move (this is sign that they're older and drying out) 12. be polite about squeezing fruit...often it bruises it and the produce man gets cranky. I find a good sniff helps, and if they're good, they'll give you a sample even. 13. everything is better when its local, and most importantly in season. Apples in the new crop are tasty treats. Apples from a year ago can be mealy and flavorless. Ditto turnips and even squashes. Again, I find the nice man in the produce dept of my local Ballard Market to be an amazing help. Also, if I'm doing a banquet, I call my local Sosio brothers produce stand and ask them to pick out primo stuff for me ahead of time. I show up, pay them and leave with boxes of wonderful stuff. I understand that in France, when you go to the grocer, you are not supposed to handle the food. All much more sanitary, but somehow unsatisfying!!! I find the sniff and inspect ritual a very important part of my grocery shopping....the hunting and gathering genes, I guess :). - --AM Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:14:04 -0600 From: "Branwen" Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables Is iceburg lettuce period? Even if it's not, here's a tip: don't go by the "heavy for its size" rule when dealing with lettuce. Heads of lettuce should be light - if they're not, they're probably full of bitter, white-and-yellow icky parts. The good leaves weigh a lot less than the bad ones. And someone already mentioned how to choose a melon, but I just need to say that melon season is my absolute favorite. The produce section gets pretty musical when I'm around. :) Branwen Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:47:20 -0800 From: "Laura C. Minnick" Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables Philip & Susan Troy wrote: >... Same for green beans and > asparagus, which, BTW, should neither be the subject of sexual fantasy > nor pencil-thin. Awright, I bet I'm in trouble for that one. Please form > an orderly line; everyone will get a shot at me in the order in which > you queue up.) BANG! Personally, I prefer the 'sparagus that is 1/2-5/8" thick. It seems (IMHO) to have better developed flavor that the pencil stuff. But fatter is woody and tends to be dry. Takes all kinds, I suppose. I also store it standing up in a shallow dish of water. Does anyone else do this? 'Lainie Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:17:33 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables "Laura C. Minnick" wrote: > Personally, I prefer the 'sparagus that is 1/2-5/8" thick. It seems > (IMHO) to have better developed flavor that the pencil stuff. But fatter > is woody and tends to be dry. Takes all kinds, I suppose. Yes, but that's kind of what I'm driving at. You can't assume that the little bitty ones are tender (and they often lack flavor), and the really thick ones are usually either woody and tough, or at least have to be pretty extensively peeled. I think the measurements you mention are about on the money. Of course there may be different varieties with different characteristics in different markets, different areas. > I also store it standing upin a shallow dish of water. Does anyone else > do this? No, storage usually isn't a problem; they're rarely in the house for more than a couple of hours. I've heard of people cooking them upright in a tall pot, like a coffee pot, though. Adamantius Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:24:40 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - selecting fruits and vegetables acrouss at gte.net writes: << avocados can be ripened in a bag too, and should be bought as squishy as possible, as long as they're uniformly squishy (i.e. ripe, not just mooshed) >> Excuse me for disagreeing. Avocados should yield to slight pressure. "Squishy' ones have flesh that is discolored in spots and develops an off taste which can border on bitterness. Also avoid avocados than have dark spots on the skin. The skin should be bright green, glossy and smooth with no discoloration for the large California types while Florida types should be pebbly, black with no sign of discolored spots and no wrinkles. Do not refrigerate avocados as they will develop blotched brown/greyish flesh. Ras Edited by Mark S. Harris sel-frts-veg-msg Page 7 of 7