salads-msg – 10/9/18

Period salads. lettuce, greens. Recipes.

NOTE: See also these files: herbs-msg, cook-flowers-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, vegetables-msg, vinegar-msg, cooking-oils-msg, lettuce-msg, greens-msg, olives-msg, celery-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: hwt at bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup)
Subject: Re: Truth and Beauty
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 14:07:23 GMT

ck290 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chandra L. Morgan-Henley) writes:
|> dip recipes is that the people who ate plain raw vegetables
|> were most likely to be peasants, who ate whatever they had
|> available to eat and didn't take time out for fancy sauces
|> when crunching on a turnip for lunch during a long day in the

Well, Dear Poster of Silly Notes, I'm going to disagree politely.
(Would you like some salt for that turnip, my dear?)

Background: I was born in Scotland, my grandmother was "in service" in
a hotel in her youth, and my grandfather was a "scaffie" - a collector
of garbage for the city of Dundee.  Great aunts, etc, were still 
involved in farming.  In short, I come from a modern peasant background.
(I'll conceed the modernity.)

My grandparents believed that raw vegetables, specifically root veg
like carrots, and turnips were actively harmful. We ate lots of root
veg, frequently in soups or stews.  We did eat some salad in summer.

The extant medieval herbals and the like also held that raw vegetables
were harmful, "cold and wet" in the doctrine of humours.

So there's some evidence of a tradition in two points of at least some
people not eating raw turnip. The times in between are reasonably
documented too, and no where is the eating of much raw veg recorded.

Harry, a peasant by birth.
-- 
Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	   A former member of a religious para military organization


From: ctallan at epas.utoronto.ca (Cheryl Tallan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: raw vegetables
Date: 12 Oct 1993 14:32:18 -0400
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto

jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) writes:
>Ther has been a discussin going on whether the average peasant ever
>ate raw food. Here's my contribution:

As the "raw food" thread was started by me, I think I should clarify
matters.

Certainly medieval people ate raw vegetables. I would recommend that
anyone doubting this read Platina's _On Honest Indulgence_ (Venice,
1475) or the Salad recipe in _The Form of Curye_ (England, late 14th
century). The latter shows up in almost all of the modern "medieval" cookbooks.

I merely voiced doubts about the presence of "crudites" (ie. those
carrot and celery sticks) at noble feasts. Here in the SCA, they
appear at almost every feast (they seem to be second only to honey
butter in popularity) whereas one almost never sees a salad (never
mind one based on a medieval recipe, even though one is readily available).

Of course, I could start a whole new thread on the ever-present honey
butter. Does anyone know what leads folk to believe that this is
medieval. A friend and I were speculating some time ago that if
medieval nobles had really wanted to sweeten their butter for a feast
(and honey butter most often appears in a feast context) they would
more likely have used the then more expensive sugar...

David/Thomas
tallan at flis.utoronto.ca


From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Veggies
Date: 7 Oct 1993 21:37:11 GMT
Organization: The Rialto

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

David Tallan writes,
>Yet. personally, I find a lack in cookbooks as a strong piece of
>evidence that medieval people *did not eat* carrot and celery sticks!
>For I cannot imagine that they could have eaten them for many
>generations with stumbling across the concept of "dip", much as they
>loved sauces. And a "dip" recipe they WOULD have written down and put
>with the sauces. The lack of such a trace is, to me, a pretty strong
>indication that, however they ate their vegetables, it probably wasn't
>as crudites.

(Assuming that we are talking about the upper classes:)

I'd agree except for one point.  We know, from lots of evidence, that
they ate many salads.  But the only surviving recipes I am aware
of that mention salad dressing call for vinegar and oil (and don't treat
them as constituting a separate "dressing", but just as shaken over the
salad).

Then again: fresh vegetables and fruits were only available in season.
While they aren't as "sexy" as something like beef, they are, in their
own way, more special.  I suspect that they ate them pretty plainly --
though clearly often boiled -- but also that they ate them raw and plainly
in salads, and possibly more simply, because they were enjoying them while
they could.

Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry


From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Date: 4 Jan 1995 03:58:47 -0500
Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

Jerome of York asks,
>Our local group will shortly be having a small potluck, and I have been 
>asked to bring a "salad-type" dish.  I'd like to keep things as "period" 
>as is possible, but I don't have any recipes that fit the bill.  I recall 
>having been told, long ago, that what we think of as "salads" are 
>completely non-period...do any of you have a good recipe for this sort of 
>vegetable based appetizer?  I would *greatly* appreciate any help!

Fortunately for your situation, you were told wrong.  Salads are 
perfectly period, and were eaten far more widely than most people 
dream of.  (The household accounts of one archbishop actually mention 
that he insisted on salad with every meal, for instance.)

One might expect that this is the sort of thing that is so simple that
no recipe would survive, but amazingly, one would be wrong.  There's a 
recipe for salad in _Forme of Curye_ (one of the best known collections 
of recipes from period, dating to late 14th C England).  I rather suspect
that it's actual purpose was to remind folks that there are more 
interesting things to put in salads than simple leafy vegs.  Anyhow,
the text is as follows:

	Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles, oynouns, leek,
	borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew,
	rosemarye, purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.
	Pluk hem small wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with
	rawe oile; lay on vyneger and salt, and serue it forth.

Slightly modernized:

	Take parsley, sage, green garlic, chiboles, onions, leeks,
	borage, mint, poretts, fennel, and garden [town] cress,
	rue, rosemary, parsley; lave and wash them clean.  Pick
	[the nasty bits out of] them.  Pluck them small with your
	hand, and mix them will with oil; add vinegar and salt,
	and serve it forth.

Obviously, you'll have a hard time finding some of this stuff (I
wouldn't go looking for chiboles or poretts ;^}; rue and borrage
are tough too, though at least possible).  And I wouldn't rule out
some lettuces, or spinach, or any readily available fresh herbs
(many supermarkets carry fresh basil these days, for example).

Things to avoid: tomatoes and bell peppers (New World).  I know
that there are appropriate cucumbers, but haven't seen them in
recipes.  I've seen recipes that call for radish, but am not
convinced as to the variety.  Carrots appear to have been relatively
rare; I know of no English recipe that calls for them, and the
only French recipe I know of offhand includes immediately afterwards
a description of what they are, where to get them, and what they
cost -- indicating that the author (the Menagier) considered them
exotic enough that his young wife might not know what they are.

Hope this gives you some guidelines.  Enjoy!

-- Angharad/Terry


From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Date: 4 Jan 1995 04:11:55 -0500
Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs

Greetings, again, from Angharad.  Looking over my recent response
to Jerome of York:

>One might expect that this is the sort of thing that is so simple that
>no recipe would survive, but amazingly, one would be wrong.  There's a 
>recipe for salad in _Forme of Curye_ (one of the best known collections 
>of recipes from period, dating to late 14th C England).  

Probably more information than Jerome ever wanted, but to clear up
a possible false inference....

On second glance, this sounds as if that's the only period recipe 
for salad.  Actually, not.  For instance, Platina has a recipe for 
"a salad of several greens", in among many vegetable recipes.  (It
adds lettuce to the list explicitly, and catmint -- yes, catnip --
and chervil, all of which are available, if you're in the mood, as 
well as some other rather less avaiable stuff, and that wonderful
standby, "other fragrant greens".)  Also calls for a very simple
vinegar and oil dressing.  (With all those herbs in the salad, who
needs more in the sauce?)  He also has a separate section on preparing
endive, and lots of other stuff.

There are probably other recipes out there too; these are just the
ones that jump to mind.

In other words, live wildly!
-- Angharad/Terry


From: jlv at coho.halcyon.com (Vifian(s))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Date: 4 Jan 1995 16:17:00 GMT
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.

Greetings from Jean Louis de Chambertin

greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose) writes:
>Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.
<SNIP>

>Obviously, you'll have a hard time finding some of this stuff (I
>wouldn't go looking for chiboles or poretts ;^}; rue and borrage
>are tough too, though at least possible).

We have stopped using rue (although I think that we only had it available 
in dried form) because of its reputation as an abortificant.  I suspect 
that the amounts that we would have used would have had negligible 
effects, as probably would a few leaves in a salad, but not knowing this 
for sure we have opted for the safer course of just not using it.

Jean Louis de Chambertin
jlv at halcyon.com


From: hairy at sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 10:16:23 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc

Angharad writes:

>Obviously, you'll have a hard time finding some of this stuff (I
>wouldn't go looking for chiboles or poretts ;^}; rue and borrage
>are tough too, though at least possible).

Borage tough to find? What sort of vicious climate have you _got_!? 
That stuff is about the most combat-ready herb I ever saw. I guess I 
haven't seen it in the supermarket, but once it's in the garden it's not 
going away in a hurry...

While on the topic of herbs, anyone got suggestions for what to use 
wormwood for? My plant seems to like its new home, so bits of it may as 
well be pressed into service...

Edward Long-hair
Southron Gaard, Caid


From: tallison at mcs.com (Tim Allison)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Date: 4 Jan 1995 18:16:03 GMT
Organization: MCSnet

coren at teleport.com (Gary Heavysege) wrote:

> Our local group will shortly be having a small potluck, and I have been 
> asked to bring a "salad-type" dish.  I'd like to keep things as "period" 
> as is possible, but I don't have any recipes that fit the bill.  I recall 
> having been told, long ago, that what we think of as "salads" are 
> completely non-period...do any of you have a good recipe for this sort of 
> vegetable based appetizer?  I would *greatly* appreciate any help!

If you can hold of a book called Sallets Humbles and Shrewsbury Cakes, it
will help you with suggestions. The author is Ruth Ann Beebe. She agrees
that modern salads are totally non-period-they thought raw vegetables and
fruit were harmful-but they did occasionally eat them. Some possibilities
that involve currently available foods are boiled onions with vinegar and
oil, or samphire(whatever that is)with bean pods, aspauragus and
cucumbers, also with vinegar and oil, or olives and capers, or (this may
sound unlkely, but they're claiming documentation) young lettice, cabage,
purslan(pursley) and divers other hearbes(whatever's available, I guess).
This time the vinagrette has a little sugar added.
You might also went to check the rec.arts.cooking.historical newsgroup for
other suggestions.
Hope this is helpful. I went through the same problem years ago at a
Richard III Society potluck.
Caroline Richenda of the White Rose mka Carol Mitchell
-- 
Tim Allison
tallison at mcs.com


From: mujle at uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jennifer L Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Date: 9 Jan 1995 03:32:27 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

Greg Rose (greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu) wrote:
: Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

: One might expect that this is the sort of thing that is so simple that
: no recipe would survive, but amazingly, one would be wrong.  There's a 
: recipe for salad in _Forme of Curye_ (one of the best known collections 
: of recipes from period, dating to late 14th C England).  I rather suspect
: that it's actual purpose was to remind folks that there are more 
: interesting things to put in salads than simple leafy vegs.  Anyhow,
: the text is as follows:

: 	Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles, oynouns, leek,
: 	borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew,
: 	rosemarye, purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.
: 	Pluk hem small wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with
: 	rawe oile; lay on vyneger and salt, and serue it forth.

: Slightly modernized:

: 	Take parsley, sage, green garlic, chiboles, onions, leeks,
: 	borage, mint, poretts, fennel, and garden [town] cress,
: 	rue, rosemary, parsley; lave and wash them clean.  Pick
: 	[the nasty bits out of] them.  Pluck them small with your
: 	hand, and mix them will with oil; add vinegar and salt,
: 	and serve it forth.

: Obviously, you'll have a hard time finding some of this stuff (I
: wouldn't go looking for chiboles or poretts ;^}; rue and borrage
: are tough too, though at least possible).  And I wouldn't rule out
: some lettuces, or spinach, or any readily available fresh herbs
: (many supermarkets carry fresh basil these days, for example).

: -- Angharad/Terry

Greetings from Gwenhwyvar Lawen, someone who cooks alot. I just thought 
I'd add something to the advice given above. According to Hieatt and 
Butler, the editors of the Early English Text Society's version of Curye 
on Inglysch (where my copy of the Forme of Cury comes from), chybolles 
are spring onions (US scallions), and porrettes are young leeks or green 
onions. Also, when I make this salad and don't have all of the herbs 
available fresh, I put dried herbs into the vinegar and oil dressing. It 
turns out very well. I never use rue, as the herb book I have says that 
strong doses are toxic and should never be taken internally without 
strict medical supervision (that's good enough for me).

Pro cocto-
Gwenhwyvar Lawen
March of Lochmorrow, MK

Jennifer Edwards-Ring
Western Illinois University


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: Question about period food
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:45:55 GMT

Suze Hammond (Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org) wrote:

: Is it a correct assumption that this lettuce would be more like one of the 
: modern leaf lettuces, such as red or romaine, instead of iceberg heads?

     I wish I had more reference on this,(I'm still working on that 
carrot issue).    Since there are at least 6 more types of lettuce than 
I've ever seen in a grocery store, and since the types that are sold in 
the US aren't the types that are popular in Europe (where most lettuces 
were developed anyway)...it's probably not safe to assume that one (leaf) 
is more period than the other (iceberg) without checking it out. For all 
I can tell there's one that 's a crunchy leaf-head lettuce (not Romaine) that
could be older than either of them. (If anyone comes up with any info 
please let me know and I'll add it to the research I come up with)

    Also, Catmint (Nepeta mussinii) and Catnip (Nepeta cataria) are two 
seperate herps (in the same family, obviously), although catmint could be 
refering to catnip. (someone noted that Rue was used as an abortificant 
and should probably be avoided for that reason...Catnip was historically 
used in a tea to induce menstruation so pregnant women may want to avoid 
it, also. (My SO drinks it occaisionally with no ill effects)
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry at netcom.com>


From: kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu (kathleen keeler)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cooking Question
Date: 10 May 1995 19:08:21 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	

Margaret Griffith (peggieg at u.washington.edu) wrote:
: I have seen several references in sixteenth/seventeenth century cookbooks 
: (Digby, etc.) to "Pot-herbs" (for examples, add to the pottage a 
: collander of pot herbs...").
: Can anyone enlighten me as to what would constitute "pot herbs" in this 
: time period?
: Thank you.
: Meg Penrose

Generally, "greens".  Leaves to toss into the pot.  For country folk, 
stuff you didn't need to grow but could gather:  leaves of lettuce, 
chickweed (_Stellaria media_) shepherd's purse (_Capsella 
bursa-pastoris_), purslane (_Portulaca olearcea_), watercress, 
turnips, spinach, goosefoot (_Chenopodium album_), dandelion, 
salad burnet, arugala to name a few I like.
For city folk, cheaply purchased leaves.

If we're talking Digby, then English rather than Italian edible wild 
plants, and Culpeper (Complete Herbal) is a pretty good source as he 
often mentions which are potherbs.   Many American lawn weeds are period
potherbs, likely because they were repeatedly introduced by people who
wanted to eat them, and so became established in the New World. 
But check any plant you don't purchase in a major market for safety in
2 modern herbals--a variety of period greens are considered unsafe 
today.  (2 herbals because authors vary greatly in their willingness 
to express cautions).   
Agnes/Kathy
kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu


From: alysk at ix.netcom.com(Elise Fleming )
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pickled Lemons
Date: 21 Jan 1997 01:14:34 GMT

In <5c08ju$jla$1 at news.ptd.net> L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt
<liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net> writes: 

>I am searching for a source (unredacted) that will have directions for
>making Pickled Lemons and the other sorts of things that might be
>strewn upon a grand Elizabethan Salad.

Robert May, _The Accomplisht Cook, 4th edition, 1678, has "To pickle
Lemons" and says simply "Boil them in water and salt, and put them up
with white-wine."

May also includes a number of things for "sallats" which would include
the grand sallat.  You may want to search out a copy.  Ditto for
Gervase Markham's _The English Housewife_, 1615, as edited by Michael
Best.  This you might find in a library.  He includes a number of salad
ideas including carving carrots into fantastic shapes and making
"strange sallats" with flowers composed of parts of vegetables.  May
would be an excellent resource.

May also has "Of pickling sallats" where he says "...they are only
boiled, and then drained from the water, spread upon a table, and a
good store of salt thrown over them, then when they are thorough cold,
make a pickle with water, salt, and a little vinegar, and with the same
pot them up in close earthen pots, and serve them forth as occasion
shall serve."

Seems to me there was at least one other reference to pickled lemons
but I can't find it right now.

Elise/Alys


From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:03:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Recipe

OK. Here's my first one. This is a very tasty salad that I redacted from  the
Charles Perry translation of The Baghdad Cookery Book, 1226 C.E. which is
found in Duke Coriadoc's "Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks".
To serve 100 multiply by 20, etc.

......................
DRY CURDS WITH VEGETABLES

1/8 cp fresh mint, chopped finely
1 stalk celery, chopped finely
1 leek (white part only), choppped finely
1 lb. cottage cheese (large curd), drained in a colander in a cool place over
night
Salt, to taste
1/2 tsp dry mustard, fine ground
1/2 cp walnuts, finely chopped

Mix mint, celery and leek together. Add drained cottage cheese. Mix well. Add
salt and dry mustard. Mix thoroughly. Sprinkle walnuts across top. Serves 5.
(The Baghdad Cookery Book; 1226 c.e.)
(Trans: Charles Perry, pub. Duke Coriadoc of the Bow 
"A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks")

Redaction by Lord Ras al Zib 


From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:07:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Spice Use and Food Poisoning, etc.

In a message dated 97-04-16 04:06:38 EDT, you write:

<< If you try eating the dandelion greens and other wild herbs, you will
 find them to be quite bitter.>>

Bring to a boil; drain. Repeat 2 x more. The bitterness is then almost
non-existenant and even mild when compared with endive, etc.

<<  A great deal of game has a strong taste compared to our supermarket
meats.  These would be very good reasons to add sugar to so many foods and to
use many spices.  Given the natural foods and the use of verjuice in so many
receipts, I think that medieval preferances must have been rather different
from ours.  Personally, I don't much like 'sour' and do not at all enjoy 'bitter'.  >>

When I was growing up a flask of vinegar always was at the table at every
meal to slosh onto spinach and other green vegetables. Dandelions were ALWAYS
served with vinegar and bacon.. Other foods such as sauerkraut, sauerbraten,
salad dressings of all sorts, etc. leap to mind. IMHO, I don't think the
taste for vinegar (read verjuice or sour has changed for certain populations.
General tastes for most Americans have changed but we're generally wierd
anyway and our food was described as tasting like "cardboard" by a Japanese
friend of mine.

Lord Ras


From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:52:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Spice Use and Food Poisoning, etc.

Lord Ras wrote:
  When I was growing up a flask of vinegar always was at the table at every
  meal to slosh onto spinach and other green vegetables. Dandelions were ALWAYS
  served with vinegar and bacon.

Very period.  Modernly, saute those greens in a mild broth with some orange
juice...  You'll love it.

Period style, see below.

	Tibor

Leafy Greens			("Joutes", Harleian MS 279, #3)
Sources found in "Take a Thousand Eggs or More", Cindy Renfrow, 1991.

Leafy Greens, or Joutes

  "Joutes. Take Borage, Vyolet, Malwys, Percely, Yong Wortys, Bete, Auence,
  Longebeff, wyth Orage and o(th)er, pyke hem clene, and caste hem on a
  vessel, and boyle hem a goode whyle; (Th)an take hem and presse hem on
  a fayre bord, an hew hem ryght smal, an put whyte brede (th)er-to, an
  grynd wyth-al; an (th)an caste hem in-to a fayre potte, an gode freshe
  brothe y-now (th)er-to (th)orw a straynowr, [& caste] (th)er-to .ii. or
  .iii.  Marybonyes, or elles fayre freshe brothe of beff, and let hem sethe
  to-gederys a whyle: an (th)an caste (th)er-to Safron, and let hem sethe
  to-gederys a whyle, an(th)an caste (th)er-to safron and salt; and serue
  it forth in a dysshe, an bakon y-boyled in a-no(th)er dysshe, as men seruyth
  furmenty wyth venyson."

This dish calls for many spring greens.  I could not find most of those, and
therefore chose to use other, more available but still period greens.  I
also converted this to a Lenten recipe by substituting vegetable broth for
beef broth or marrow.  I expect you may use any greens you choose.  Of
course, this being Lenten, no boiled bacon for you...  I omited salt, as it
appears in the bouillion

2 cups each of the following greens: broccoli rabe, Chard, Kale, Parsley.
1/2 vegetable boullion cube
1 cup plain breadcrumbs
pinch saffron

Wash, dry, pick over and de-stem the various greens.  Place a cup or so of
water in the bottom of a pot.  Boil, and once it is boiling, place the
greens in the pot.  Stir frequently, until the greens color intensifies, and
they become softer.  Don't bother over-boiling: they cook another time.

Take off the heat, drain and dry carefully.  I used both a salad spinner,
and pressed them between two plates lined with paper towel. Chop finely by
hand, or as I did in a food processor.

Heat a cup or so of water in the pot, and dissolve the boullion cube and the
saffron in the water.  Once it boils, add the vegetables, and the bread
crumbs, a little at a time.  The crumbs should sort of bind the vegetables
together a little, but not really change the color of the dish.  Heat until
it begins to stick together.


From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:42:28 GMT
Subject: Re: SC - Mediterranean Feast

While not as "Mediterranean" in style as Greece or Turkey, there are
an exceptional number of salads and fruit/veggie dishes listing in
"The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy. An offering to Lucy, Countess
of Bedford", by Giacomo Castelvetro. The original is in Italian and
written in 1614 (just a hair post period). I tend to have the greatest
interest in Late Renaissance Italian cuisine, so this and Platina are
my current bibles. ;-) The copy I have is put out by Viking Press,
with Introduction and Translation by Gillian Riley (c) 1989 and
Foreword by Jane Grigson. ISBN 0-670-82724X. I am not sure if this
book is even in print any longer, but Amazon.Com was able to come up
with a copy for me.

The basic Italian salad would consist of greens (yes, including
lettuce) placed in a bowl rubbed with garlic and sprinkled with
vinegar, salt and (usually olive) oil. (Modern Italian salads, at
least in Northern Italy, are pretty much the same thing to this day.
Dump the "Italian Dressing"! ;-))

To be more specific, Castelvetro proclaims:"Of all the salads we eat
in the spring, the mixed salad is the best and most wonderful of all.
Take young leaves of mint, those of garden cress, basil, lemon balm,
the tips of salad burnet, tarragon, the flowers and tenderest leaves
of borage, the flowers of swine cress, the young shoots of fennel,
leaves of rocket, of sorrel, rosemary flowers, some sweet violets, and
the tenderest leaves or the hearts of lettuce. When these precious
herbs have been picked clean and washed in several waters, and dried a
little with a clean linen cloth, they are dressed as usual, with oil,
salt and vinegar." Let me reiterate that drying part, I know quite a
few people who can't stand going to a restaurant and having a puddle
of water at the bottom of their salad bowl. It is apparently
unappetizing to some people.

If you had some specific flavors or styles in mind, let me know and
I'll see what M. Castelvetro has to say about them. The listings are
by season and then, generally, by fruit/herb/veggie. Oh, and one of my
favorites is the listing under Sweet Fennel (it has a seed that tastes
like licorice): "Fennel Seeds are gathered in the autumn. We flavour
various dishes with them, and eat them on their own after meals." So
now I always have a little dish with Fennel Seeds to "sweeten the
breath" after a feast. It just seems like such a nice little touch.

Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)
zarlor at acm.org


From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 16:27:54 GMT
Subject: Re: SC - medieval Italian salads

On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:01:19 -0500 (CDT), Stefan li Rous wrote:
[brief description of late period Italian salad snipped]
>I'm not sure if I understand this description or not. Are you saying 
>that the empty bowl is rubbed with garlic and sprinkled with
>vinegar, salt and oil and then the salad is added? Rather than the
>salad being rubbed with garlic and then sprinkled with the other
>items?
>
>Definitely a different effect than "modern"salads. It seems like most
>of the garlic taste would end up on the bowl and not in the salad and
>that the medieval salad would be much drier.

Apparently Castelvetro is indeed proclaiming that the bowl itself is
rubbed with garlic. Personally I would go for this technique in a
salad anyways, instead of chopping garlic into it, because garlic can
be a bit strong. This way that hint of garlic would be imparted on the
flavor of the salad. Especially since we are used to finely chopped
garlic that has been made milder by a form of pickling in modern Italian
dressings. The rubbing on the inside of a bowl will certainly impart
some of the stronger oils there providing a scent as well at allowing
some of the oils to rub off onto the leaves. Besides, the garlic is
optional since not all of his salad recipes use it.

Now for the fuller explanation, Castelvetro basically states that in
Italy a good salad is made by taking herbs, such as mint, garden
cress, basil, fennel shoots, edible flowers, rosemary and tender
leaves or hearts of lettuce. All should be washed several times, (He
discusses swishing them in a bowl of water and draining several times
until all of the sand and gunk is off of them) dried well on a linen
cloth (the reason well explained by a good gentle in an earlier
posting) and then placed into a  bowl which has some salt in it. The
herbs and salt are then thoroughly stirred together and oil is added
"with a generous hand" and again stirred "so that each leaf is
properly coated with oil". Then vinegar is added last of all, but just
a bit to provide a good flavor. 

Castelvetro proclaims, "The secret to a good salad is plenty of salt,
generous oil and little vinegar". He also states that his experiences
in other countries show that Germans take poorly washed leaves and
without draining or drying will put on just a little salt, too much
oil and far too much vinegar, generally producing a more decorative
effect to the detriment of the flavor of the salad.

He also proclaims that the English are "worse" and that after a very
poor washing of the salad (he almost questions if the salads are
washed at all) that a good deal of vinegar is then put on the salad
and is not stirred in with either oil or salt, both of which are added
at the table. (Which implies that vials of oil and salt shakers were
evident as condiments already on the table in England by the early
17th Century. At least in the places Castelvetro went to. Kinda cool,
eh?)

Remember the accounts above are by an Italian traveling into areas of
these other countries, so while we might deduce that the English MAY
prefer more Vinegar than Germans or Italians, in general, we cannot
truly take into account what the real preferences were. After all,
Castelvetro may have just eaten at the "wrong" places.

So if you mean that a Renaissance salad was drier than an American
salad, where we usually pour on a big glob of dressing, then you are
probably quite right. But such salads were not completely "dry", since
Castelvetro expected the leaves to be lightly coated with (usually
olive) oil. Just remember that this is for a specific time and place
and that a hundred years earlier it's possible that people in Padua
despised salads, while those in Milano could have eaten vast
quantities with lots of vinegar, no oil and parmesan cheese (wild
examples only with no bearing on historical fact).

Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Bjornsborg
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio)
zarlor at acm.org


Date: Mon,  4 Aug 1997 15:20:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: SCA myths

Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 4-Aug-97 Re: SC - Re: SCA
myths by Stephen Bloch at adl15.adel 
> Although I consider it quite likely that "some vegetables were often
> eaten raw" (and fruits, for that matter, although medieval medical books
> seem to consider both unhealthy), and that the "recipes" were too simple
> to write down, I wonder what evidence we DO have for the practice.

There are period recipes for herb salad that don't require cooking. 
Platina mentions eating various greens raw, including lettece, colewort,
endive, ox-tongue, purslain, and chicory.  There is also a mention that
eating turnips without cooking them causes inflammations and
obstructions, which I believe is an indication that they were
occasionally eaten raw.

toodles, margaret


Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 19:42:42 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re:  SC - period salads

Hi, Katerine here.  Stefan asked for pointers to the salads from Platina.
I don't do much work from Platina, and I'm not in the mood to dig them
out at the moment, but here's one from Forme of Cury (recipe 78, page
115 in Cury on Inglysch):

	Salat.  Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles,
	oynouns, leek, borage, myntes, porettes, fenel, and
	toun cressis, rew, rosemarye, purslarye; laue and
	waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem small wi[th]
	[th]yn honde, any myng hem wel with rawe oile; lay on
	vyneger and salt, and serue it forth.

In more Modern language:

	Salad.  Take parsley, sage, green garlic, scallions
	[possibly spring onions], onions, leeks, borage, mint, 
	young leeks [or green onions], fennel [the bulb], and
	town cress [or water cress for a close analog], rue,
	rosemary, purslane; lave and wash them clene ["lave"
	means "wash" too].  Pick them [to remove bad bits].
	Pluck them small with your hands, and mix them well 
	with oil; lay on vinegar and salt, and serve.

I wouldn't feel compulsive about finding everything.  This *is* a salad.
Some of the things that make it different from most modern salads are
the large number of herbs (fresh clearly best in this context), the
use of leeks, the fennel and cress, and the simple variety.  All of 
those are easy enough to reproduce in small quantity, and possible 
even in feast amounts.  You will also notice that lettuce is conspicuously
absent!  Not to say that the English didn't eat it in salads; it's
conspicuously absent from the recipe corpur, but they grew it, and
ate it somehow.  Just, it's possible to make a green salad without it.

Enjoy!
- -- Katerine/Terry


Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 15:42:28 GMT
From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann)
Subject: Re: SC - period salads

On the questions about salads in period I can only offer what I have
on Renaissance Italian styles. I had posted a couple of months ago
what Castelvetro wrote on salads, so I will not repeat that again. (If
you really want that post I can e-mail it privately for those who had
not seen it.) That was just slightly post period (1614) and probably
quite relevant for a late 16th century salat. He does list lettuce
varieties of capucina and romana (or Cos) lettuce. Purslane and endive
appear to be popular lettuce-like substitutes or additions for use in
salads.

So, now I will pull it back to Platina (Venice, Italy, 1475).In his
"On Honest Indulgence and Good Health" he covers a bit on lettuce
stating that there are several varieties available and that
Lacticaulis, Sessilis and Crispa are the best. (All lettuce is
considered cold and damp, for those that care). He also lists
goat-lettuce and Serralia lettuce. He states that lettuce can, and
often is, eaten plain with a sprinkle of ground salt, a little oil and
a little more vinegar. "There are those who add a little mint and
parsley to this preparation, so that it does not seem too bland". I'll
skip the bit about cooking lettuce.

Platina then goes on to endive, which he considers a type of lettuce.
It is also prepared in the same way as lettuce. He also lists a wide
variety of other raw leafy vegetables and how to prepare them, but our
interest is more on:

"On preparing a salad of several greens.
A preparation of several greens is made with lettuce, bugloss, mint,
catmint, fennel, parsley, sisymbrium, origan, chervil, cicerbita which
doctors call teraxicon, plantain, morella, and several other fragrant
greens, well washed and pressed and put in a large dish. Sprinkle them
with a good deal of salt and blend with oil, then pour vinegar over it
all when it has sat a little; it should be eaten and well chewed
because wild greens are tough. This sort of salad needs a little more
oil than vinegar. It is more suitable in winter than in summer,
because it requires much digestion and this is stronger in winter."

For those of you who think you can better figure out the ingredients
from the original Latin:

"CONDITUM Padodopum.
It item cenditu pandodopu ex lactuca: buglesso: meno: ceripholio:
cicerbita: qua teraxicon: laceda: qua arnaglossam medici uocat:
morella: foeniculi flore: ac plersiq; alus odoriferis herbis: bene
lotis: expressisq; pa tina ampla requnut: sale perfuso ubi paululum
resederit: eau? syluatica durities comedenda: ac bene dendibus
coterenda sunt. Hoc coditu plusculu olei & minus aceti requirit. Hieme
magis q aestate conuenit: qa plus concoctionis: quae hieme valida est
requirit."

My copy is tough to read and I don't know Latin, so assume any
transcription errors above are mine.

On a related note about the boiled onions, Platina says this about
preparing onions, for those that might be interested:

"The onion is also cooked under the ashes and coals until all the
rawness is steamed out of it; when it has cooled it is chopped finely
and put in a dish with salt and oil and defrutum, or rolled in must.
There are those who also sprinkle the onion with pepper or cinnamon."

Castelvetro in 1614 wrote this of onions:

"Cooked onions: When there are no spring onions, we make a salad of
roasted onions seasoned with crushed pepper. This is tastier and more
wholesome than eating them boiled. Onions without pepper are excellent
for clearing up the sort of bad cough that lingers after a cold."

I hope that some of you find that useful!

Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX)
zarlor at acm.org


Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 11:20:16 +1100 (EST)
From: Charles McCN <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SC - vegetarian dish help please

There is something in the british museum cookbook for medieval (I think) 
called a Salat. It is basically a colloection of green stuff, adding 
herbs that would be around, and leaving out the iceberg lettuce which (so 
I have been told - anyone know?) was developed in 17th C. Anyway, it is 
on the web at 
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/mjw/recipes/ethnic/historical/med-european-coll.html

What period did you have in mind?
Charles 


Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:47:57 -0000
From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>
Subject: RE: SC - Spring Foods Brain Buster

> The whole thought of these luscious leafy little morsels makes my mouth
> water...and my mind wonder about what exactly  we can find in the way of
> documentation for serving a dish of greens with dressing. I have found
> "boiled salad", salad of Lemons (basically a  preserved peel dish, from a
> Book of Fruits and Flowers), directions for cooking spinach into a tart, or
> to boil and then fry it strewing on spices etc...  I am wondering if anyone
> has found a recipe for FRESH GREENS served in the way of a modern salad.
> Salad is almost always a component of the feasts in the current middle ages
> (regardless of the season). How did that happen? Is it convenience, cost, or
> modern tastes intruding upon our attempt at re-creation? Sometimes the
> simple questions about feast management are the ones that challenge you!
>
        [Yeldham, Caroline S]  And by great co-incidence I'm working on
Formond's list of plants dated to c 1500 (he died 1542/3 but the handwriting
dates it to around 1500 - this information from John Hervey's Early
Gardening Catalogues 1972 SBN 85033 021 1 published by Phillimore).  the
text is also known as Sloane MS 1201 in the British Museum.

        He gives something like 100 plants for gardens under the headings of
' for potage', 'for sauce', 'for the copp', 'for a Salade', ; to stylle',
'for savour and beaute', 'rotys for a gardyn' and 'for a herber'.  BTW if
anyone knows what 'for the copp' or to stylle' mean, I'd love to know.

        'For a Salade' is

        'buddes of Stanmarche, vyollete flourez, perceley, redmyntes, syves,
cresse of boleyn, purselan, ramsons, calamyntes, prime rose buddus, dayses,
rapouses, daundelyon, rokete, red nettell, borage flourz, croppus of Red
fenell, selbestryune, chykynwede'

        the one that puzzled me was 'selbestryune', which John Harvey
identifies as ? Herb Trinity, viola tricolour.

        Lettuce (or letuse or letyse) does appear on the list, but under
pottage.

        By John Aubrey's time (17th century) he identifies lettuce as the
basis for any salad.

> A) Has anyone found a recipe or reference to serving fresh, raw greens (with
> acoutrements) such as we find in a modern salad? If so, how might the dish
> have differed to the "modern" interpretation of a dinner salad? What about
> the dressing (if any)? If the salad differes considerably to modern
> interpretations, what would the finished dish be like?

        [Yeldham, Caroline S]  As for dressings, I've references to oil and
verjuice, but I'll have to hunt them out

> A.1)What about sprouts? Were they a consumed food (apart from barley
> sprouts that were used for beer-making)?

        [Yeldham, Caroline S]  Not seen anything to suggest it.

> B) What sorts of greens might be involved in a period salad? How might they
> differ from region to region?

        [Yeldham, Caroline S]  Not just greens!  Lots of flowers as well -
wonderful visual opportunity!  In the banquet I did in October I got the
people making them up to use pomegranate seeds as decoration - they looked
wonderful

> C) Does salad appear in every culture we study, or just western Europe?
>
> D) Does the nature of Salad evolve through the middle ages and rennaisance,
> or remain constant? Are there "fad" salads that may have been popular at
> one time?

        [Yeldham, Caroline S]  There's the Elizabethan Salmagundy (not seen
earlier references) which involves meat and fish or eggs as well as the
usual range of herbs etc.

>  E) Where in the meal might we expect the salad to occur? Why?

        [Yeldham, Caroline S]  Gervase Markham has the start of any dinner
being 3 salads, one boiled but the other two fresh greens.  I tend to serve them either there, or with the lighter dishes on the second course.

> F) Why might our modern cooks avoid serving preserved fruits and
> vegetables,
> and how does that slant our perception of what a "real feast" would have
> been like?

        [Yeldham, Caroline S]  I've used pickled walnuts, pickled samphire
and olives in salads, which have worked well.  My problem is transporting
glass jars around the countryside, with the risk of breaking them, so I
prefer to minimise the use of glass.  However I do hope to pickle broombuds
and barberries this year!

        Almost forgot - sweetmeats of all sorts - I do try to take those
along too!

Caroline


Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:17:09 -0500
From: Woeller D <angeliq1 at erols.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Spring Foods Brain Buster

>         [Yeldham, Caroline S] 'For a Salade' is
>
>         'buddes of Stanmarche, vyollete flourez, perceley, redmyntes, syves,
> cresse of boleyn, purselan, ramsons, calamyntes, prime rose buddus, dayses,
> rapouses, daundelyon, rokete, red nettell, borage flourz, croppus of Red
> fenell, selbestryune, chykynwede'
>
>         the one that puzzled me was 'selbestryune', which John Harvey
> identifies as ? Herb Trinity, viola tricolour.

Also known as Helen Mount Viola, or popularly (around here, anyways) as
'Johnny Jump Up'. It is a hardy perennial, which looks like a miniature
purple, lavender and yellow pansy.  Seeds are fairly widely avaiable,
usually listed as Viola tricolor. They are a charming, easy to grow,
readily self-sowing flower (they can take on the propagation properties
of a weed, if you aren't careful) I have previously used the flowers as
a very pretty addition in salads, but a recent post on this list
identified pansies as poisonous, and I believe they are fairly closely
related, so I'm not sure if they're truly safe. If I find out more, I'll
pass it on.
Bon chance,
Angelique


Date: 4 Mar 1998 12:45:14 -0800
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Spring Foods Brain

<snip>identified pansies as poisonous, and I believe they are fairly closely

All of my research has shown viola, violets, pansies, johny-jump-ups, etc. as
safe and edible-
- -brid


Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:51:28 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: RE: SC - Spring Foods Brain Buster

<snip>
>       [Yeldham, Caroline S]  And by great co-incidence I'm working on
>Formond's list of plants dated to c 1500 (he died 1542/3 but the handwriting
>dates it to around 1500 - this information from John Hervey's Early
>Gardening Catalogues 1972 SBN 85033 021 1 published by Phillimore).  the
>text is also known as Sloane MS 1201 in the British Museum.
>
>       He gives something like 100 plants for gardens under the headings of
>' for potage', 'for sauce', 'for the copp', 'for a Salade', ; to stylle',
>'for savour and beaute', 'rotys for a gardyn' and 'for a herber'.  BTW if
>anyone knows what 'for the copp' or to stylle' mean, I'd love to know.

Hello!  My hunch is 'for the copp', means literally 'for the cup', i.e.,
herbs to be used to make wine or other beverages, or perhaps to be eaten
with wine as a sop.  To 'stylle' means to distill.

>       'For a Salade' is
>
>       'buddes of Stanmarche, vyollete flourez, perceley, redmyntes, syves,
>cresse of boleyn, purselan, ramsons, calamyntes, prime rose buddus, dayses,
>rapouses, daundelyon, rokete, red nettell, borage flourz, croppus of Red
>fenell, selbestryune, chykynwede'
>
>       the one that puzzled me was 'selbestryune', which John Harvey
>identifies as ? Herb Trinity, viola tricolour.

Gerard has a short section on obsolete English names of plants:
"Stanmarch is Alisander."  Selbestryune is not listed there or in the
index, or in the various names for Viola tricolor (Iacea, Herba Trinitatis,
herb Trinitie, Herba Clauellata, Pensees). (Or in Culpeper, Rohde, or
Britton & Brown.)

Cindy/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:16:00 +0000
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Spring Foods Brain Buster

And it came to pass on  4 Mar 98, that L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt
wrote:

> I am wondering if anyone has found a recipe for FRESH
> GREENS served in the way of a modern salad.
> A) Has anyone found a recipe or reference to serving fresh, raw
> greens (with acoutrements) such as we find in a modern salad?

> Aoife

I do not have a salad recipe per se, but some information on which
vegetables were eaten raw in 15th century Spain.  The _Arte Cisoria_,
 written in 1423, is a carving manual which explains the proper way
to cut up a wide variety of foodstuffs.  Here is a list of vegetables
which are eaten uncooked.  (Note that some veggies were to be served
either raw or cooked in various ways.)

Carrots
Parsnips
Artichokes
Lettuce (the author explains how to cut lettuce, then specifies that
the ones which are to be cooked do not need cutting.  From this I
gather that some lettuces were eaten raw.)
Turnips -- sometimes eaten raw, when tender.
Radishes -- sprinkled with salt after cutting to release their
juices

There is no mention of combining vegetables into a salad, nor of
dressings, but then, this is a carving manual and not a cookbook.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper  at  idt.net


Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 07:31:38 -0500
From: "Tina Carney" <brighid at iserv.net>
Subject: Re: SC - salads

This question about salads has probably already been answered but here is a
recipe  I have, supposedly from the Boke of Nurture c.1460

Take parsel, sawge, garlec, chibollas, onions, leek, borage, myntes,
porrectes, fenel and ton tressis, rew, rosemarye, purslayne, lave, and wash
them clene.  Pike hem, pluk hem small with thyn hond and myng hem wel with
rawe oile.  Lay on vynegar and salt and serve it forth.

Brighid the Ageless
living the canton of Rimsholt
in the Glorious Middle Kingdom


Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:36:55 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - salads

> This question about salads has probably already been answered but here is a
> recipe  I have, supposedly from the Boke of Nurture c.1460
>
> Take parsel, sawge, garlec, chibollas, onions, leek, borage, myntes,
> porrectes, fenel and ton tressis, rew, rosemarye, purslayne, lave, and wash
> them clene.  Pike hem, pluk hem small with thyn hond and myng hem wel with
> rawe oile.  Lay on vynegar and salt and serve it forth.
>
> Brighid the Ageless

According to Lorna Sass, the recipe is from the Forme of Cury (c. 1390
approx.).  Your particular copy was probably taken from Sass' To the Kings
Taste and wrongfully attributed to John Russell's Boke of Nurture because of
the quote which precedes the recipe in Sass' book.  "Beware of saladis,
grene metis, and of frutes rawe."  --  John Russell, Boke of Nurture (c.
1460).  Unfortunately, I do not have copies of the originals to verify this.

Bear


Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 15:01:42 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - Borage

A question was asked, regarding documentaion for borage.

IV 78.  Salat.  Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles, leek,
borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew, rosemarye,
purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem small wi(th)
(th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with rawe oile; lay on vyneger and salt,
and serue it forth.  p.115.
Hieatt, Constance & Sharon Butler. CURYE ON INGLYSCH. Oxford   University
Press. 1985.

The Fromond List, c. 1525, gives uses for borage as both herbs for
pottage and herbs for salad.It is not starred, as a native plant.  This
means that the plant was imported into England.
Landsberg, Sylvia. The Medieval Garden. Thames & Hudson, 1995.  ISBN
0-500-01691-7.          Thames & Hudson, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, NY 10110.

The history section on borage gives several Latin possible
interpretations for the name, quotes a Roman verse in Latin, "Ego, Borage
  Gaudia semper ago."  (I, Borage, bring always courage).  She quotes
Pliny  "maketh a man merry and joyfull."  He claimed that borage steeped
in wine was the famous Nepenthe of Homer.  A 17thC. quote, also.  Candied
flowers were given to persons recovering from long illnesses and those
prone to swooning,  Still called 'cool-ankard' in England, etc. p. 53.
Keville, Kathi.  Herbs, An Illustrated Encyclopedia.  A Complete
Culinary, Cosmetic,     Medicinal, and Ornamental Guide.  Barnes &
Noble, NY, 1997.  ISBN 0 7607 0486 4.

Allison


Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:41:19 +0100
From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>
Subject: RE: SC - Borage

> Alison posted:
>
> The Fromond List, c. 1525, gives uses for borage as both herbs for
> pottage and herbs for salad.It is not starred, as a native plant.  This
> means that the plant was imported into England.
> Landsberg, Sylvia. The Medieval Garden. Thames & Hudson, 1995.  ISBN
> 0-500-01691-7.        Thames & Hudson, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, NY 10110.

Sylvia Landsberg has this slightly wrong.  The starring on the Fromond
list does not necessarily mean it is a native plant; it means it does not
appear on a 13th century list of plants which was used as a comparison by
the later writer who published the list (and MLAH and I can't remember his
name).  This may mean it was introduced between the 13th and the end of
the 15th century, but there are other possible explanations (the 13th
century writer didn't happen to use it, he forgot it when making his list,
he didn't like it or didn't approve of it so left it off the list).  The
other point to make is that the 13th century list isn't necessarily a list
of native plants - there were introductions before the 13th century.

Caroline


Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:14:22 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Will's- more recipes

Here are the few recipes my co-feastocrat at Will's Revenge, His Lordship
Thorstein,  was willing to share. :-) Sorry for the lack of documentation but
this isn't my work. Enjoy. They are wonderful. :-)

<snip of other recipes>

Salat
Salad greens (avoid iceberg lettuce)
1 tbs. each fresh chopped parsley, sage, mint, and any other available,
suitable herbs
1-2 bunches scallions, sliced
1-3 cloves garlic, minced
optional: 2-3 small leeks finely sliced
optional: 2-3 tbs. chopped chives
* cup salad oil (preferably olive)
3 tbs. vinegar
1* tsp. salt

Wash and tear up greens.  When well drained, put in bowl or bowls and add
sliced scallions and leeks.  Herbs, garlic, and oil may be added now, with
the salt and vinegar reserved for the last minute, or if you prefer, mix herbs,
garlic, oil, vinegar and salt as you normally would a salad dressing and add
all at the same time just before serving.  Mix and toss in the usual way


Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:03:49 -0400
From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Pre-mixed field greens - was: Re: SC - salads (long)

needlwitch at msn.com wrote, re premixed field greens:
> Yep, I have gotten it many times at stores in my area. It beats iceberg
> salads hands down. Kind of spoiled me I guess. And it is fun trying to
> identify all the different greens. It does cost a bit more, though it is
> well worth it, IMHO.

Yes, this is good stuff. You can find it at good greenmarkets, farmer's
markets, and maybe some supermarkets, for all I know. Sold as "mixed field
greens" of "mesclun". I usually order it in 3- or 5-lb boxes: a box goes a
long way because these greens are much lighter than lettuce: you get maybe 35
- - 50 good-sized servings from  a box, depending on whether it's a 3 or a 5
- -pounder.

It also generally comes prewashed and pretrimmed, ready for dressing and
serving. A quick look for various, uh, forest floor items might not be such a
bad idea though. Let's say it is clean and ready to serve 98% of the time,
within my experience, and is full of various animal byproducts and hunks of
wood the other 2% of the time. On the other hand, washing it just in case can
hurt the greens, so that should be avoided too, because some of these greens
are really very delicate. (At Bouley we were forbidden to run tap water on
them, to avoid breakage; we had to fill a sink and slowly immerse
them...possibly a bit excessive, but when you're taking someone else's money,
etc.) Drying them afterwards can also be a problem, since salad spinners tend
to be rather small. One trick I encountered is to gather your greens up in a
small tablecloth, hold onto the corners and swing the greens around like a
centrifuge. For events, I recommend finding burly fighter types, the original
food processors!

As for the compromised periodicity of the greens being used in the mix, it's
true there are some lettuces involved, and lettuces would not have appeared in
the average European salad until well after the Middle Ages, but many greens
that _would_ likely have been there in a period mixed salad _are_ there, too.
You'll likely find purslane, baby kale, dandelion, parsley, chives,
watercress, lamb's lettuce, sorrel, baby spinach leaves, endive, along with
some lettuces of various kinds, like baby romaine, red leaf, and baby red oak
leaves (which I don't think are actual oak leaves, but are shaped like them).
The best mixes will also often include some edible flowers, either whole or in petals.

Adamantius
Østgardr, East


Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:23:46 EDT
From: CONNECT at aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re: Pre-mixed field greens - was: Re: SC - salads (long)

Phil & Susan Troy wrote:

<<What I meant was that while lettuce was eaten in period, it seems to have been
consumed mostly in the Eastern Mediterranean regions, and does not appear in
any salad recipes I can think of offhand. I think it's going to be near the
eighteenth century before it will appear with any frequency in an English
salad recipe>>

I'm looking at my copy of The English Housewife, written by Gervase Markham in
1615. In chapter 2, section 11 and 12, it says:

"Of sallats. Simple sallats.
First then to speak of sallats, there be some simple, and some compounded;
some only to furnish out the table, and some both for use and adornation; your
simple sallats are chibols peeled, washed clean, and half oteh green tops cut
clean away, so served on a fruit dish; or chives, scallions, radish roots,
boiled carrots, skirrets, and turnips, with such like served up simply; also,
all young lettuce, cabbage lettuce, purslane, and divers other herbs which may
be served simply without anything but a little vinegar, sallat oil, and sugar;
onions boiled, and stripped from their rind and served up with vinegar, oil
and pepper is a good simple sallat; so is samphire, bean cods, asparagus, and
cucumbers, served in likewise with oil, vinegar, and pepper, with a world of
others, too tedius to nominate.

Of compound sallats.
Your compound sallats are first the young buds and knots of all manner of
wholesome herbs at their first springing; as red sage, mints, lettuce,
violets, marigold, spinach and many other mixed together, and then served up
to the table with vinegar, sallat oil and sugar."

The English Housewife, by Gervase Markham, edited by Michael R Best, and
published by McGill-Queen Unversity Press. The ISBN of the paperback edition
is 0-7735-1103-2.

Your humble servant,
Rosalyn MacGregor
(Pattie Rayl)


Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:30:13 +0200
From: Jessica Tiffin <melisant at iafrica.com>
Subject: SC - Salad questions

I find myself currently up to the eyebrows in period salad recipes - we're
going into summer, and I'm putting together an article for our newsletter on
period salads, in the hopes that it'll persuade our non-cooking Shire
members that it's possible to bring something both simple and authentic to
our potluck events.

I have no problem with the Form of Curye salad or the one from Platina,
having primary versions of both.  It's with the earlier (Roman) and later
(Elizabethan) salad recipes that the trouble starts.

I have lots of Elizabethan salad recipes, but all from secondary sources.
The main one is Ruth Ann Beebe's "Sallets, Humbles and Shrewsbury Cakes",
which quotes acres of primary sources, but doesn't specifically attribute
them.  She merrily tells us that all the recipes quoted come from Dawson's
"Good Huswife's Jewel" and "Good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchin",
Gervase Markham's "English Huswife", "Countrey Contentments", and Murrell's
"Delightful Daily Exercise for ladies and gentlewomen".  She doesn't
attribute each individual recipe at all.  I've managed to track down some,
but there are several I can't identify: please, if anyone has copies of the
Elizabethan sources and recognises these, can you tell me where the darned
things come from?  Quoting from secondary sources only is outraging my
earnest postgraduate soul...

It seems logical to assume that this one and the long series of "Anothers"
are all from one source:
Sallet for FIsh Daies
First a sallet of green fine hearbs, putting Perriwincles among them with
oyle and vineger.

Another
Olives and Capers in one dish, with vinegar and oyle.

Another
Carret rootes being minced, and then made in the dish, after the proportion
of a Flowerdeluce, then picke shrimps and lay upon it with oyle and viniger.

Another
Onions in flakes laid round about the dishe, with minced carrets laid inthe
middle of the dish, with boyled Hippes in five partes like an Oken leafe,
made and garnished with tawney long cut with oile and vinegar.
(Any ideas what on earth "tawney long cut" is??  And I assume "Hippes" are
rose hips?)

Another
Salmon cut long waies, with slices of onions laid upon it, and upon that to
cast violets, oyle and vineger.

Another
Take pickelde Herrings and cut them long waies, and so lay them in a dish,
and serve them with oyle and vineger.

To compound an excellent Sallet, and which indeed is usall at great Feasts,
and upon Princes Tables
Take a good quantity of blaunch't Almonds, and with your Shredding knife cut
them grosly; then take as manie Raisyns of the sunne cleane washt, andthe
stones pick't out, as many Figges shred like the Almonds, as many Capers,
twise so many Olives, and as many Currants as of all the rest cleane washt:
a good handfull of the small tender leaves of red Sage and Spinage; mixe all
these well together with a good store of Sugar and lay them in thebottome of
a great dish, then put unto them Vinegar an dOyle, and scrape more Sugar
over all; then take Orenges and Lemmons, and paring away the outward pills,
cut them into thinne slices, then with those slices cover the sallet all
over; which done, take the thin leafe of the red Coleflowre,a nd with them
cover the Orenges and Lemmons all over, then over those red leaves lay
another course of old Olives, and the slices of wel pickld Coucumbers,
together with the very inward hart of your Cabbage lettice cut up into
slices, then adorne the sides of the dish and the top of the Sallet with
more slices of Lemons and Orenges and so serve it up.

The Roman problem is that my only access to Apicius is  "The Roman Cookery
of Apicius," which is translated and adapted by John Edwards.  Would anyone
know if this is a trustworthy translation?  The comments in Stefan's
Florilegium file were fairly disparaging about Edwards's redactions (an
opinon I had independently formed from reading it!) but I'm wondering if the
actual translation has the same kind of errors as the Vehling one?  He
doesn't give the originals, not that I could tell a correct Latin
translation if it was served up to me with oyle and vinegar, but hey.

Sorry to bombard everyone with such a long post, but any help will be
gratefully received, including other sources in which I could dig for salad
recipes - are there, for example, any Andalusian ones??

Melisant

Melisant de Huguenin  *  Jessica Tiffin * melisant at iafrica.com
Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Drachenwald (Cape Town, South Africa)


Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:06:47 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Salad questions

Hiya from Anne-Marie
Meslisant asks us about period (Elizabethan) salads.

None of them look at all familiar to me, except the one that starts:
> To compound an excellent Sallet, and which indeed is usall at great Feasts,
> and upon Princes Tables<snip>

That one is from _The English Hous-wife_  c. 1615. One of my favorites! and
believe it or not, it gets inhaled at banquets. Who says they wont eat
salad??? :)

re: Apicius salads, dont forget to look at #84. Fresh cukes dressed with
vinegar, honey, liquamen, pepper, broth,. rue (or its equivalent) and a bit
of asafetida. Yum! and so quick to make!

- --AM
Madrone/An TIr
Seattle/WA


Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:29:06 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - Salad questions

Melisant,

Sallets for fish daies is from _The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives
Jewell_; so is 'Olives and Capers', 'White Endive', 'Carret rootes being
minced', 'Onions in flakes', Alexander buds', 'Skirret tootes', 'Salmon
cut', '...pickeeld herring cut long waies...rundles winth onions', and
...pickeeld herring cut long waies ...oyle and vinegar'.

>From Spurling, Hilary. _Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book_, Elizabethan
Country House Cooking,

To Make Sallads of Gilloflowers

Take Red gilloflowers and Cutt of all the whight from them soe lett them
stand all night, then take stronge wine vinegar and as much sugger as
will make it sweete boyle it 2 or 3 walmes them take it from the fire and
when it is through cowlde, put yo[r] gilloflowers into it and soe keepe
them for yo[r] use this way you may doe any other fflowers.

"The white base of the petals should be nbipped off because it is said to
be bitter.  Weigh the petals, which must be perfectly dry, measure out an
equal weight of sugar and dissolve it in white wine viegar (which should
do no more than barely boil or it will set solid).  Allow one flued ounce
of vinegar to each ounce of sugar.  These are the proportions given by
Hannah Woolley, in _The Gentlewomans Companion (1673), who reckoned a
pound of sugar per pound of gilliflowers, which would be enough to fill a
plastic carrier bag or large basket.  But the recipe is worth trying even
with only one or two ounces of petals, packed well down in small stone or
glass pots.  Pour the cold syrup over them and seal tightly.  They will
keep their bright colour so long as neither air nor light gets at them."

Does anyone know if Bachelor Buttons are edible?  My wild flower garden
(which is probably dead today after a hard freeze last night) has
Bachelor Buttons in blue, but also all shades of white, pink, lavender,
etc.  Too bad I didn't read this recipe day before yesterday!

Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc


Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:47:52 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - My latest feast (and a few comments)

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> The roasted onion salad sounded good too. But I imagine that is in
> "The Medieval Kitchen".

Yes, but it was in Platina's De Honesta Voluptate et Valetudine, among
other sources, I believe, first. Platina also treats carrots and several
others, as I recall, in the same way. Roast in the embers, peel/scrape,
slice and dress with vinegar, oil, salt, pepper, and perhaps some fresh
chopped herbs. The roasted vegetables get a slightly caramelized
sweetness that doesn't leech out in the boiling water you'd otherwise be
likely to be using to cook them. Yum!

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:39:45 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Thamesreach Culinary Guild event

>The salad had sliced horseradish in it, which I know is a period vegetable
>but am still a bit dubious about our adding it to a salad. Would they have
>done that? I know salads are supposed to 'open the stomach' with their
>'wetness', so would they have added a 'hot' food to it? (I'm assuming
>horseradish is of a hot humor)

If your source mentioned horseradish in salad, it is more likely the
*leaves* of the horseradish which were meant, as I believe I have seen period
references to using them thus (I can't recall the exact source right now,
but I can track it down if you wish).

Francesco Sirene


Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:27:59 -0500
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: SC - Sallat of Cold Capon Rosted

This looks like it to me.  It sure sounds good.  Hey, it's the least I
can do!
Christianna

Sir Kenelme Digbe - The Closet Opened
Sallat of Cold Capon Rosted pg 206
"It is a good Sallet, to slice a cold Capon thin; mingle with it some
Sibbolds, Lettice, Rocket, and Tarragon sliced small.  Season all with
Pepper, Salt, Vinegar and Oyl, and sliced Limon.  A little Origanum doth
well with it."


Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:55:21 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Sallat of Cold Capon Rosted

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> What are "Sibbolds"?

An green-oniony unit, chives or scallions, I forget which. 

> What is "Origanum"?

Oregano

> I think I will have to try
> this one sometime, if I can get the ingredients.

It's an excellent recipe. I vaguely recall having eaten it made with
arugula, radicchio and Belgian endives, which in combination were pretty
bitter, but they offset the sweet capon meat and the vinegar rather well.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:54:20 -0500
From: Lurking Girl <tori at panix.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Period French Toast Recipies

Bonne of Traquair wrote:
> Someone snagged the copy of Digby from UNC library, which is frustrating 
> because I know there is a chicken breast on salad greens recipe in there. 
> I've put a call out for it to be returned. 

For bizarre reasons, I have my copy here at work:

SALLET OF COLD CAPON ROSTED

It is a good Sallet, to slice a cold Capon thin; mingle with it some
Sibbolds, Lettice, Rocket and Tarragon sliced small.  Season all with
Pepper, Salt, Vinegar and Oyl, and sliced Limon.  A little Origanum
doth well with it.

The glossary says that Sibbolds are Welsh onions, and doesn't give an 
entry for Rocket.

HTH, HAND, etc.,

Vika


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:21:29 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Early recipes (was: New World Foods-rant)

At 4:07 AM +0100 2/10/00, Thomas Gloning wrote:
>In respect to these 1000 years, we have thousands of
>15th century recipes, we have -- maybe -- hundreds of 14th century
>recipes, we have a few 13th century recipes; some of the early _texts_
are extant only in _later manuscripts_. I would love to see _one_ 7th or
8th or 9th century cookery recipe (30% of the time).

How about 6th century?

Mustard Greens
Anthimus, De Observatio Ciborum

Mustard greens are good, boiled in salt and oil. They should be eaten 
either cooked on the coals or with bacon, and vinegar to suit the 
taste should be put in while they are cooking. [end of original]

1 1/4 lb mustard greens (including smaller stems)
1 t salt
3 T oil
4 slices bacon
4 t vinegar

Wash mustard greens. Boil stems two minutes, then add leaves, boil 6 
more minutes and drain. Fry bacon or cook 6 minutes in microwave. 
Heat oil, add greens and stir, then add salt and cook five minutes. 
Crumble bacon and put over greens with vinegar. Stir it all up and 
cook another 3 minutes.

Elizabeth/Betty Cook


Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 03:54:37 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Early recipes (was: New World Foods-rant)

Elizabeth/Betty Cook said:
<<<<
Thomas Gloning wrote: 'In respect to these 1000 years, we have thousands
of 15th century recipes, we have -- maybe -- hundreds of 14th century
recipes, we have a few 13th century recipes; some of the early _texts_
are extant only in _later manuscripts_. I would love to see _one_ 7th or
8th or 9th century cookery recipe (30% of the time).'

How about 6th century?

Mustard Greens
Anthimus, De Observatio Ciborum
Mustard greens are good, boiled in salt and oil. They should be eaten 
either cooked on the coals or with bacon, and vinegar to suit the 
taste should be put in while they are cooking. [end of original]

1 1/4 lb mustard greens (including smaller stems)
1 t salt
3 T oil
(...)
>>>>

How about 6th century? Well, there is no 6th century recipe. The recipe
is 20th century, based on an English translation of a certain version of
a 6th century dietetic Latin text.

The 'De observatione ciborum' is not a cookbook with recipes, but a
medical, a dietetic work. It is true, that several kinds of culinary
preparations are mentioned in this text. Mentioning a kind of culinary
preparation within a dietetic text is not the same as giving a recipe.
In some cases, mentioning a kind of preparation in some detail can come
close to giving a recipe. The difference between the two is a difference
in function. The function of a recipe is to describe how to prepare a
dish. The function of a dietetic passage is to give medical information
about the health value of some food stuff depending on the _type_ of
food stuff, the _age_, the _preparation_ [here is where the culinary
aspect comes in], etc.

As far as I can see, the reconstructed recipe you gave us, is yours
(20th century), based on a 6th century dietetic description.

The "original" you quoted in English is not an original, but a
translation. The original is in Latin, and the best edition I know of is
the one of Eduard Liechtenhan (Berlin 1963) in the "Corpus Medicorum [!]
Latinorum" ('Collection of Latin Medical Texts; Collection of Medical
doctors who wrote in Latin').

What comes close to your translation is this piece of Latin text (or
what else is the translation a translation of?):

"Napi boni sunt. elixi in sale et oleo manducentur, siue cum carnibus
uel laredo cocti ita, ut acetum pro sapore in coctura mittatur." (p.21).

What is interesting here among other things is the difference "on the
coals" and the latin "cum carnibus". Looking at the apparatus criticus
of the Liechtenhan edition, [where all the variants of the extant
manuscripts are printed] two of the oldest codices have "carbonibus"
(coals) instead of the "carnibus" of the other manuscripts. Thus, the
translation was based upon a certain _version_ of the Latin text.

To sum up:
- -- Anthimus' 'De observatione ciborum' is a 6th century dietetic text,
not a cookbook with recipes;
- -- However, Anthimus mentions several preparations in some detail so
that one can reconstruct 20th century recipes from his 6th century text;
- -- The earliest manuscripts extant with the 6th century text are from
the 9th century (from St. Gallen and Bamberg);
- -- As always, there is textual variation to some extent in the early
manuscripts (e.g. "cum carnibus"/ "cum carbonibus") that makes it
difficult to decide what exactly is the "kind of preparation" meant.

Why did you choose the version "cum carbonibus", and not "cum carnibus"?
Seem to be very different recipes!

I still believe that the global picture of the short recipe statistics,
you quoted, is not inadequate ("thousands of 15th century recipes, we
have -- maybe -- hundreds of 14th century recipes, we have a few 13th
century recipes").

Thanks a lot for pointing me and others to the _near relatives_ of
cookery recipes in the dietetic texts.

Cheers,
Thomas


Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:14:28 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Salads, anyone? OOP and not

Branwen wrote: 
> In an attempt to eat a bit healthier, I wish to eat more salad - and force
> some down the throat of my fiance as well. We're pretty much stuck in the
> iceburg-tomato-cucumber-crouton-ranch dressing rut (although I made a nice
> salad nicoise once). Does anyone have ideas for creative, healthy salads,
> preferrably ones that don't require a ton of dressing? I'd love to try some
> period ones!

First, stop using Iceberg lettuce! It is just cellulose and water- no
flavor, and virtually no vitamins or other nutritive value.
Try leaf lettuce, red or green, romaine, spinach, escarole, butter
lettuce, endive, radicchio... there's lots of stuff. Also, try cutting
herbs into the greens. For instance, in the summer when the leaves are
big, I use basil as though it were a green. Is VERY yummy! Also parsley,
thyme, mint, rosemary, oregano, chervil arugula (in small quantities- it
can be very bitter), a little sage, watercress...

As for period salads, there's an excellent one in _Forme of Cury_ (in_Curye on Inglysch_) 

#78- "Salat. Take persel, sawge, grene garlec,
chibolles, oynouns, leek, borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and touncressis, rew, rosemarye, purslarye; laue and waische hem clene. Pike
hem. Pluk hem small with thyn honde, and myng hem wel with rawe oile;
lay on vinegar and salt, and serue it forth."

There are many of this ilk, but I like this because there are so many
choices! And no mention of lettuce. Maybe there's no room left in the
bowl!

'Lainie


Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:36:44 EST
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Salads, anyone? OOP and not

Aldyth at aol.com writes:
<<  It was from Apicius, and had endive, fresh  herbs, balsalmic vinegar, 
olive oil, and sea salt.  Noemi, could you post that one since you did it? >>

Sure. . .

I'll give the recipe that I worked off of, although I'm not sure which 
translation of Apicius it came from. (We'll have to rely on Mistress 
Aldyth for that, since she gave the guild the "assignment" to work this 
recipe out, along with some others for our last meeting.)

Seasoned Salad
There may likewise be a seasoned salad from lettuce, borage, mint, calamint, 
parsley, wild thyme, marjoram, chevril, sow-thistle, lancet, nightshade, 
fenel flower, and other aramatic herb, well washed with the water pressed 
out.  They need a large dish.  They ought to be sprinkled with alot of salt 
and moistened with oil and a little vinegar.  When they have sat for a little 
while their wild toughness demands cutting and chewing.  this is better in 
winter than in summer, because it requires strong digestion which is better 
in winter.

My version:

Seasoned salad

lettuce (whichever type your prefer)
fresh parsley, thyme and marjoram
sea salt
olive oil
balsamic vinegar

Wash lettuce and herbs wel, drain and pat dry.  Cut or tear lettuce into 
pieces, and place into a large bowl.  Place herbs over lettuce.  Sprinkle 
salt over lettuce and hebs to taste, and then pour olive and vinegar over 
salad to taste.

When served I left the salt, oil and vinegar next to the bowl so people could 
add more if they wished.

Notes:
I only used a few of the herbs listed because I was unable to find any of the 
others. (This is not surprising for this area, and I'm glad I found what I 
did.)  I chose to use balsamic vinegar since it has a nice flavor and was not 
too overpowering.

Noemi


Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:43:17 EST
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re: A Harmless Salada LONG

<< <<  It was from Apicius, and had endive, fresh  herbs, balsalmic vinegar, 
 olive oil, and sea salt.  Noemi, could you post that one since you did it? >>
  >>

I have worked with the recipe as well, here is my work on it. Let me know if 
the proportions come out with strange characters and I'll repost. I'm getting 
ready to go to work at the moment and don't have time to redo them now.

Hauviette

VNe Agrestes Lactucae Laedant/ A Harmless Salad of Lettuces
Fresh Greens
Original Recipe
ApiciusBook III-XVIII-

1 Endives (a) dress with liquamen, a little oil, wine and chopped onion
(b) In winter use endives instead of lettuce with a dressing or with honey 
and strong vinegar
2 Dress lettuces with oxyporum, vinegar, and a little liquamen, to make them 
more easily digestible , to prevent flatulence and so that the lettuces 
cannot harm your system ;2 oz cumin, 1 oz ginger, 1 oz fresh rue,  12 
scruples  juicy dates, 1 oz pepper , 9 oz honey; the cumin may be Aethiopian, 
Syrian, or Libyan. When it has become dry bind everythign with the honey. 
when needed mix half a teaspoonful with vinegar and a little liquamen, or 
take half a teaspoonful after the meal.

Dressing

Original Recipe
Apicius #111
Ne Lactucae Laedant/A harmless salad
2 ounces of ginger, 1 ounce of green rue, 1 ounce of meaty dates, 12 scruples 
of ground pepper, 1 ounce of good honey, and 8 ounces of either aethiopian or 
syrian cumin. Make an infusion of this in vinegar, the cumin crushed, and 
strain, Of this liquor use a small spoonful mix it with stock and a little 
vineagar:you may take a  small spoonful after the meal.

Modern Adaption
For the  Romans, salad was served as an appetizer beginning sometime under 
Domitin , as Waverly Root conveys the translation:îTelle me why Lettuce, 
which our Grandsires last did eate,? Is now of late become, to be the first 
of meat? 
The recipe for the preparation to î render the salad harmlessî is a medicinal 
treatment ìwhich helps digestion and is taken to conteract inflationî . The 
fresh greens I chose to use included endive, arugula,  leaf lettuce and 
romaine lettuce.
Arugula  was descibed as an aphrodisiac by the Roman Martial, and considering 
its velvety texture and slightly bitter taste it is no wonder people fell in 
love eating it . Endive is specified in the aforementioned recipe. As for 
Romaine lettuce  by virtue of its alternative name ìCosî according to Waverly 
Root, tells us where the Romans got it.  ìIt is still an important crop on 
the Greek island of Cos, a place which gets a good deal of sun; Romaine, 
accordingly, is the only lettuce able to resist heatî  Leaf lettuce was used 
as it is a sweet lettuce, and is reminiscent of the loose leafed variety of 
lettuces that were available to the Romans. Sliced red onion was added for 
colour and flavour. The salad dressing pulls from all three preseeding 
recipes and combines olive oil, vinegar, and the seasoning of the Rx to ìmake 
the salad harmlessî.
1/2 bunch endive
1/2 head leaf lettuce     or any combination of these greens washed and torn
1 bunch arugula
1/2 head romaine lettuce

Dressing

The dressing recipe utilises the basic medium of oil and vinegar and then 
incorporates the spicing from the Apicius recipe. I reduced the original 
recipe down to a manageable quantity of 1/16 as a trial, then to 1/8 for the 
quantity of a feast. The quantity was based on the unit measurement of the 
ounce and converting ìscruplesî into ounces(1/16 ). In addition I measured 
the quantity where possible to convert the measurement into standard teaspoon 
or  tablespoons wherever possible. This was done by using a weight scale then 
transferring the ingredient to a spoon measure. I have found it to be very 
helpful in making the redacted recipe understandable yet maintaining itís 
integrity. The infusion is then refrigerated until required at which time it 
is added to the typical oil and vinegar dressing base.

original recipe measurements     1/16        1/8     
cumin                    2oz     2 TB        1 TB

ginger                   1oz     1 TB       1/2 TB

rue                      1oz*  1 1/2 TB     3/4 TB

pepper                  1 oz   1 1/2 tsp    3/4 tsp

dates     12 scrupples(1/2oz)   2-3 dates    1-2 dates

honey                   9oz     2 Tblsp       1 Tblsp

Vinegar            1 litre**     2 cups       1 cup

 
? the rue was dry vs fresh therefore 1/2 of the end weight was used
** an infusion is described as 30g of dry ingredient to 500 ml of liquid per 
The Complete Medicinal Herbal by Penelope Ody

Method
The Original recipe does  not explain how to combine the spices. I chose to 
combine the dry ingredients in a marble mortar. I added the dates chopped and 
honey last working the mass into a dry paste (this follows the translation by 
Flowers and Rosenbaum of the above recipe)    I heated the white vinegar to a 
boil and poured over the spices in a heat proof bowl. The infusion was 
allowed to steep for 10 minutes then strained. I kept the infusion in a small 
canning jar in the refrigerator until I was ready to make the salad dressing.
The Dressing
Utilizing the smallest quantity  of the infusion 2 TB  were incorporated into 
the following:
1/4 C olive oil
1/8 C  red wine vinegar
1 tsp honey
brine (1/4 tsp salt in 2 TB water)
This can be adjusted to serve your purposes. The above recipe can be made at 
any quantity following the proportions. 

The ingredients were whipped together and served over fresh greens.
This recipe is quite complicated, but the results are fantastic. I was quite 
pleased with the dressing and have stored the spice infusion in the 
refridgerator for  a week  or so. It does require some time to follow the 
steps, but Iím sure youíll be happy with the results.


Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:38:56 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: SC - Three Easy Pieces, or Verjus Redux

The Shire of Crosston, with whom i camp, has a period pot-luck feast 
at every Crown Tournament (3 per year in the West). There are always 
guests, so there are around 2 dozen diners or so, and frequently 
other folks show up looking for food and we feed them, as well. 
Generally, there's plenty. At The West Kingdom March Crown Tourney 
just passed, I made three dishes from Barbara Santich's "The Original 
Mediterranean Cuisine" for the Saturday night feast. I didn't use her 
"redactions" for any of them, just referred to the originals and the 
translations.

VERJUS REDUX
I have now used the Fusion brand Napa Valley Verjus that i bought 
from Whole Foods and i thought it was quite nice. I tasted a spoonful 
of it before pouring some into the dish i was cooking - i'm weird, i 
probably could have drunk a juice glass of it - it was tart and 
fruity, but not bitter. I used it in a recipe for garbanzo beans 
cooked in almond milk.

This was not the unpleasant white grape Fusion brand verjus that 
Niccolo di Francesco wrote about. I used the Fusion red verjus, which 
was a lovely purplish red color and was neither unpleasantly tart nor 
at all bitter, as Niccolo says the Fusion white was. I don't have the 
recommended Navarro brand to compare it with, but the Fusion red was 
quite good.

PIECE ONE

Ciurons Tendres Ab Let de Melles
(from Sent Sovi)

<snip of chickpea recipe - see beans-msg>

PIECE TWO

Cauli Verdi con Carne
(from Libro della Cocina)

<snip of cabbage recipe - see vegetables-msg>

PIECE THREE

On Preparing a Salad of Several Greens
(from de Honesta Voluptate)

ORIGINAL: not included in Santich
TRANS: A preparation of several greens is made with lettuce, bugloss, 
mint, catmint, fennel, parsley, sisymbrium, origan, chervil, 
cicerbita which doctors call teraxicon, plantain [the herb], morella, 
and other fragrant greens, well washed and pressed and put in a large 
dish. Sprinkle them with a good deal of salt and blend with oil, then 
pour vinegar over it all when it has sat a little; it should be eaten 
and well chewed because wild greens are tough. This sort of salad 
needs a little more oil than vinegar. It is more suitable in winter 
than in summer, because it requires much digestion and this is 
stronger in winter.

I used arugula/roquette (long narrow grey-green leaves with rounded 
notches), radicchio (a tight ball of maroon and white leaves), large 
leafed cress (as Santich says, " 'sisymbrium' seems to be a variety 
of cress"), flat-leaf parsley, fresh basil, fresh sage, fresh 
oregano, fresh thyme, fresh mint, and some of the tender green fennel 
stalks. I dressed the leaves with salt and a good olive oil, and 
tossed to distribute. After letting them sit a while, i sprinkled the 
dish with balsamic vinegar and tossed again.

- ---------------

I picked these dishes because they were relatively quick and easy to 
prepare at a busy event, yet authentic. I was actually done cooking 
before the others who cooked on site. (i mention this because i'm 
usually still cooking when everyone is already eating)

Anahita al-shazhiyya


Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:35:25 -0700
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Cold Soup/Vegetables?

Hey all from Anne-Marie
perhaps a nice compound salat? it's cold, and VERY colorful, especially if you
garnish with all kinds of wonderful edible flowers, and fun textures. The taste
will be VERY different from her proposed main dish, which is, at least,
perioide according my lexicon.

In my experience, soup, much less cold soup, no matter how tasty, is not well
recieved in general, and is a bear to serve, and half your diners wont have
bowls, etc etc etc.

THe recipe we use in the Madrone Culinary GUild is a huge hit every time....we
actually get little green salat back. wonders never cease! :)
all rights reserved, no publichation without permission, etc etc etc....:)


COMPOUND SALAT:

Salat [Forme of Curye XX III.XXVI]
Take persel, sawge, garlee, chibon [chives], oynons, leek, borage, mynt,
porrect, fenel and ton tressis [gloss], rew, rosemarye, purslayre, lave and
waische hem clene, pike hem, pluk ye small with thyn honde and mynge hem wel
with rawe oile, layor vyneg and salt, and serve it forth.

Compound Sallet [The English Hous-wife, 1615]: To compound an excellet Sallet,
and which indeed is usuall at great Feasts, and upon Princes Tables, take a
good quantity of blancht Almonds, and with your shredding knife cut them
grossly. Then take as many Raisins of the Sun clean washt, and the stones
pickt
out, as many Figs shred like the Almonds, as many Capers, twice so many
Olives,
and as many Currants as of all the rest, clean washt, a good handfull of the
small tender leaves of red Sage and Spinage: mixe all these well together with
good store of Sugar, and lay them in the bottom of a great dish. Then put unto
them Vineger and Oyl, and scrape more Suger over all: then take Oranges and
Lemmons, and paring away the outward pilles cut them into thinne slices. Then
with those slices cover the Sallet all over. Then over those Red leaves lay
other course of old Olives, and the slices of well pickled Cucumbers, together
with the very inward heart of Cabbage lettice cut into slices. Then adorn the
sides of the dish, and the top of the Sallet with more slices of Lemons and
Oranges, and so serve it up.

Our version:
0.125 c. slivered almonds
1 oz capers
2 oz currants
0.125 c. figs
1 tsp lemon juice
1.5 heads of lettuce, spinach and other greens
1/4 c. olive oil
2 oz olives
1 orange, peeled and sliced (no white part). Reserve half for garnish
1 oz sweet pickles
0.125 c. raisens
1 pinch salt
1 tsp sugar
0.5 c. balsamic vinegar
4-5 lemon slices for garnish

Slice, chop and/or shred all ingredients. Layer in a nice salad bowl. Make a
vinegrette dressing from the oil, vinegar, salt and sugar. Pour on Sallet,
sprinkle with lemon juice and serve, garnished with lemon and orange slices.


Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:09:08 
From: "Vincent Cuenca" <bootkiller at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - Onion Salad Recipe

From Redon, et al. "The Medieval Kitchen"

Manuscript Source: Zambrini, Francesco, ed. Libro della Cucina del secolo 
XIV

"De la insaleggiata di cipolle" (Recipe 90)

"Togli cipolle; cuocile sotto la bragia, e poi le manda, e tagliale per 
traverso longhette et sottili; mettili alquanto d'aceto, sale, oglio, e 
spezie, e da a mangiare"

"Take onions; cook them in the embers, then peel them and cut them across 
into longish, thin slices; add a little vinegar, salt, oil, and spices, and 
serve.

Recipe:

6 sweet onions, red or white, unpeeled
olive oil
salt
pepper
vinegar
1/2 teaspoon fine spices (ginger, cinnamon, pepper, cloves, saffron)

Wrap the onions in tinfoil, then roast them in the embers of a fire, or in a 
500-degree oven, for 1 hour.  Once cooked, unwrap and let cool, then peel 
them and slice them thin.  Toss in a salad bowl with olive oil, salt, 
pepper, vinegar, and fine spices. serve lukewarm."

This is good camp cooking; try roasting fennel along with it.

Vicente


Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:52:52 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: OT RE: [Sca-cooks] How long...
Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

I just made some "Carrot Sallad" from Dining with William Shakespeare for our
demo at the Relay for Life this evening.  They are VERY tasty, easy to make
and should be ok without refrigeration for several hours.  Recipe:

A Carrot Sallad

1 # baby carrots
3 cups water
=BD tsp salt
=BC tsp. chervil
=BD cup white wine vinegar
4 tbsp. Salad oil
=BC tsp. white pepper
1 lg. Sprig parsley

Scrub carrots and cut off green tops.  Bring water, salt, chervil to a boil in
a saucepan.  Add the carrots, cover the pot, and cook until the carrots are
tender but still crisp=97about 10 minutes.

In a deep bowl, mix together the vinegar, oil and pepper. Drain the carrots,
add them to the dressing and stir them until they are nicely coated.  Cover
the bowl and marinate the carrots in the dressing for at least an hour.

Wash the parsley in cold water, shake off the moisture, and snip off the
stems.  Make a rosette of the leaves in the center of a dinner plate.  Arrange
the carrots around the parsley like a sunburst, and pour a little of the
dressing over the carrots

It's really quite tasty...I've found that even folk who don't like carrots
like this stuff.

Kiri


Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:20:45 EDT
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: SC - Cilantro and Pine Nuts Salad  

Could this have been something the early Crusaders had eaten?

Cilantro and Pine Nuts Salad
 
 The famous Arab geographer al-Muqadasi, writing in the year 985 CE,
 noted among the marvels of Jerusalem pine nuts called kadam, which
 are unrivaled anywhere on earth.
 
 Ingredients
 
      200 grams pine nuts
      Olive oil
      A bunch of fresh coriander  (cilantro)
      A bunch of fresh parsley
      Fresh lemon juice
      2-3 garlic cloves, crushed
      A little vinegar-wine I use balsamic vinegar)
      Salt
 
Roast the pine nuts carefully in a small pot on a low flame,
using a little oil. It is important to stir constantly.
 
Don't do other things in the meantime! Stir all the time and
make sure the pine nuts do not burn.

With a large, sharp knife chop the coriander and the
parsley, place in a bowl and add the pine nuts, which have by now cooled.
 
Squeeze in lemon juice, drip in a little olive oil, season
with garlic, vinegar-wine, and salt.
 
Taste, adjust the seasoning, and serve.
 
A few green onions, very thinly sliced, can be added to the
salad.


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:08:38 EDT
From: Gerekr at aol.com
Subject: Re:  SC - Protectorate Feast 2 - No recipes

>From:  TerryD at Health.State.OK.US (Decker, Terry D.)
>I also have one other problem.  I'm short one dish -- Elizabethan,
>vegetable, preferably green, definitely not spinach.  Anyone got any ideas
>or recipes?
>
>Bear

Having had my Lorwin forever (25+ yrs), she was my first reaction...

Let's see, what's "vegetive", not spinach and looks like it would come 
out green?  

To stewe hartechockes in creme - John Murrell, A Booke of cookerie, 1621
"Take the thickest bottomes of the thickest Hartechockes being very 
tender boyled, and stew them in a little butter and vinegar, whole Mace 
and Sugar, then take halfe a pinte of sweete Cream boyled with whole 
Mace, straine it with the yolkes of two-new-laid egges, and brewe them 
together with halfe a ladlefull of the best thicke butter and vinegar, 
and a little Sugar, so dish up the bottomes of the Hartechockes, & lay it 
with sippets of a slickt Lemon round about, then poure your sauce on the 
toppe of the Hartechockes, and sticke them full of fryde tosts upright 
scrape on a little Sugar and serve it to the table hot."

To boyle ... peascods - the same
<snip of boiled peascods recipe - see peas-msg>

A grand salad of watercress - Robert May, The Accomplisht cook, 1660
To boil French beans or lupins - the same
A salad of watercress and violets - the same

Also, she created a lettuce/chicory/endive salad from a material in a 
couple of dietaries :
"All herbs should be eaten according to the time of the year and the 
property of them, the hot sorts for winter, the cold for summer, and the 
temperate for spring and autumn." (Among the cold herbs he placed 
lettuce, white endive, succor (chicory or curly endive). For old people, 
he said, it was) "expedient sometimes to boyle [lettuce] whole in 
pottage, and afterwards to eat them with Sugar, Vinegar and Oyle. In this 
manner Galen used it in his old age against watchfulnesse 
(sleeplessness)". William Vaughan's Directions for health (1617)

and "Among al hearbes, none hath so good juyce as lettice.  Some men doe 
suppose that it maketh abundance of bloud, albeit not very pure or 
perfect : it doth set a hot appetite and eaten in the evening it 
provoketh sleep.  Suckory or Cycory is like in operation to Lettice and 
tempereth choler wonderfully." Thomas Elyot's The Castle of health (1610)

There are several other Salads, esp the two May/watercress items listed 
above.

Well, do you want period or Elizabethan?  Looks like you might squeeze 
the Murrell in, but the May looks pretty late.  Here's hoping others come 
up with references a bit more in period!  

Chimene


Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:37:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Period cookshop at Pennsic?

> I don't have time at the moment to go through lots of sources, but 
> reading through the first five meals in Le Menagier I do not find any 
> mention of any salad or salad like dish. My casual impression is that 
> that is typical. Perhaps someone else has done a more careful 
> examination of the data.

Menu XIX calls for 'cress and sorrel with vinegar'
Menu XXIII calls for 'cress and mint'
Menu XXIV calls for 'lettuces'

All of these are fish menus, so we can conjectorure that the little old
man who got married around 1393 and who lived in Paris, felt that greens
should be served with fish, not meat, and probably thought of them as a
Lenten dish. 

A quick look in the OED suggests that at least by the 15th century it was
a known dish if not common. Of course the term 'sallat' may not have come
into the language for a dish of raw (or lightly cooked) greens much before
then. 

  1481-90 Howard Househ. Bks. (Roxb.) 398 Item, for erbes for a selad j.
d. 1533 ELYOT Cast. Helthe (1539) 41 Yonge men..shell
eate..salades of cold herbes. 1578 LYTE Dodoens 125 This herbe..is much
vsed in meates and Salades with egges. 1601 HOLLAND Pliny
II. 37 If you would make a delicate sallad of Cucumbers, boile them first,
then pill from them their rind, serue them vp with oile, vinegre,
and honey. 

c1390 Forme of Cury (1780) 41 Salat. Take persel, sawge, garlec
[etc.]..waische hem clene..and myng hem wel with rawe oile, lay
on vyneger and salt, and serue it forth. 1550 J. COKE Eng. & Fr. Heralds
30 (1877) 64 Oyle olyve whiche was brought out of
Espayne, very good for salettes. 1597 HOOKER Eccl. Pol. V. lxxvi. 8 A
Sallet of greene herbes. 

Perhaps it was a renaissance fashion, to eat fresh greens in spring?

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise


Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:05:05 -0400
From: "Ron Rispoli" <rispoli at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Period cookshop at Pennsic?

From: Jenne Heise
>All of these are fish menus, so we can conjectorure that the little old
>man who got married around 1393 and who lived in Paris, felt that greens
>should be served with fish, not meat, and probably thought of them as a
>Lenten dish.

>Perhaps it was a renaissance fashion, to eat fresh greens in spring?

Perhaps salads were listed for a Lenten menu because the greens are more
plentiful during that time and unavailable the rest of the year.  Off hand
fall greens such as mustard and kale are best cooked.  Cabbages are best
pickled in case the next years spring greens fail.  The spring in northern
Europe isn't very long even for wild greens.


Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 16:25:29 -0600
From: "Karen O" <kareno at lewistown.net>
Subject: SC - Salads in period & artichokes

>Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, writes:
> > Perhaps it was a renaissance fashion, to eat fresh greens in spring? In
addition to the references you note , Apicius (1st C-4th C AD) has recipes
for salads and dressings, so does Platina (15th C Italian) has recipes and
references and descriptions of salads and their medicinal value. In winter,
there were winter greens (chard, kale, beet tops) in spring more variation.
In every cooking manuscript or work of period that I can recall, there were
salad type recipes. <<

> I think salads were more common than we are giving credit.<
> Hauviette

   _ Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery_  Pages 15 & 16: [Karen Hess
writing]  "There is no recipe for green salad in our manuscript.  For those
who think that simply dressed mixed green salads are a relitively modern
development, I give this delightful recipe from _The Forme of Cury_< 1390,
for  "Salat':  Take parsely, sage, <snip>  and mix them well with raw
[olive] oil.  Lay on vinegar and salt, and serve it forth. . .Gerard in 1597
discusses  the eating of raw salads under numerous headings, including raw
artichokes, usually dressed only with olive oil and salt.
Markham gives three pages to salads in 1615 and John Evely, the diarist,
devoted to the subject an entire book, _Acetaria: A Discourse of Sallets_,
1699  . . . .it seems reasonable to suppose that green salads were eaten in
the household."

Just coz I got it from ILL yesterday  and stumbled upon it.

Caointiarn


Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 01:33:09 +0200
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - salad

- -- In Rumpolt's menues, salad is mentioned several times and in some
variation for the "erste Gang zum Nachtmal" (first course at the evening
dinner). -- His chapter "Von allerley Kr‰uter Salat/ wei? vnd gr¸n/ wie
nachfolget" (About salad from all kinds of herbs (?)/ white and green/as
stated below) has 50 entries.

- -- "salat" is mentioned under the heading "kraut" in the Tegernsee
monastery's year's menu (around 1530), and "kraut" as a part of a meal
is mentioned frequently.

- -- According to Moriz Heyne, the use of salad in 'Germany' is first
attested in Ekkehard's "Benedictiones ad mensas", and this seems to be
an indicator, that lettuce was eaten in the monasteries. -- "lactucas"
are mentioned both in the garden plan of the monastery St. Gallen and in
the Capitulare de vilis. (But how, exactly, where they used?)

- -- There is also an important passage in Wolfram von Eschenbachs
'Parzival' (ca. 1210) 551.19ff.:
"do brahte ein des wirtes sun
purzeln unde latun
gebrochen in den vinaeger ..."
'Then, one of the host's sons brought
portulaca- and lettuce-salad,
prepared with vinegar ....' 
(contrary to what health manuals of the time say, this text goes on and
states that lettuce is not healthy, makes no good blood, etc.)

Th.


Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 07:41:03 -0400
From: Ann & Les Shelton <sheltons at conterra.com>
Subject: SC - Castelvetro & salads (long)

Just got Castelvetro's "The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy" through
ILL yesterday {best $1.58 I've invested in a long time}, had to throw in
his comments about salads in spring:

"Salads:	And now the time has come for me to write about all the
different kinds of salads we have at this time of year.

It is almost impossible to describe our delight in the delicious green
salads of this joyful season.  The cooked salads we ate in the winter
seem so boring, while all this fresh greenery is a pleasure to the eye,
a treat for the palate, and above all, a really important contribution
to our health, purging us of all the unwholesome humours accumulated
during the winter months."

He then talks about a wild chicory salad and an excellent mixed salad,
which he describes as "the best and most wonderful of all."  He then
gives instructions as to how to properly make a salad, because he
complains that housewifes and foreign cooks don't get rid of the sand
and grit on the greens.  You wash your hands, then stirs the greens in a
bowl of water, lifting them out 3-4 times until all the sand has fallen
to the bottom.  Dry the greens with a linen cloth, put them in a bowl to
which salt has already been added, add oil and stir, then add vinegar. 
He has some pretty harsh comments about the salad making abilities of
other countries . . . 

"Never do as the Germans and other uncouth nations do - pile the badly
washed leaves, neither shaken nor dried, up in a mound like a pyramid,
then throw on a little salt, not too much oil and far too much vinegar,
without even stirring.  And all this done to produce a decorative
effect, where we Italians would much rather feast the palate than the
eye.

You English are even worse; after washing the salad heaven knows how,
you put the vinegar in first, and enough of it that for a footbath for
Morgante, and serve it up, unstirred, with neither oil nor salt, which
you are supposed to add at the table.  By this time some of the leaves
are so saturated with vinegar that they cannot take the oil while the
rest are quite naked and fit only for chicken food.

So, to make a good salad the proper way, you should put the oil in first
of all, stir it into the salad, the add the vinegar and stir again.  And
if you do not enjoy this, complain to me.

The secret of a good salad is plenty of salt, generous oil and a little
vinegar, hence the Sacred Law of Salads:  Insalata ben salata, poco
aceto e ben oliata (Salt the salad quite a lot, then generous oil put in
the pot, and vinegar, but just a jot).

And whosoever transgresses this benign commandment is condemned never to
enjoy a decent salad in their life, a fate which I fear lies in store
for most inhabitants of this Kingdom."

John le Burguillun


Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 21:39:09 +0200
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - salad & Castelvetro translation

Eden wrote:
<< Thomas writes that the germans have many period recipes for salad,
but I must point out that per castelvetro these were hardly fit to be
called salad ;->  >>

Haha. Good point. Yes, since the days of Tacitus, the culinary
reputation of the Germans, seen from the south, was never really a very
good one ... But I guess, Castelvetro's chapter on German salad would
have been a bit more hymnic if he had tasted a few of the 50 RUMPOLT
salad recipes... ;-)
           *****
I think I mentioned this website with the Castelvetro text earlier:
http://www.liberliber.it/biblioteca/c/castelvetro/index.htm

What strikes me, are some differences between the English version quoted
and the Italian text:

" ... where we Italians would much rather feast the palate than the
eye. YOU ENGLISH are even worse; ..."
" ... ma noi Italici abbiam pi? riguardo di piacere a monna bocca. ALTRI
fan vie peggio, ..."

As far as I can see, there is no mention of "You English", but only of
"others" in this Italian text (based on the Firpo edition in 1974). And
I cannot find anything that comes close to the "footbath of Morgante",
nor do I find anything for "a fate which I fear lies in store
for most inhabitants of this Kingdom" in the Italian text of the Firpo
edition; "Ë degno" is not "is condemned" but "is worth", "paperi" are
not chicken, but geese etc.

What is going on here? On which Castelvetro text is the translation
based? Could someone please take a look?

Thomas
- -- Altri fan vie peggio, che cosÏ pure ammucchiate con sale e solo aceto
in tavola le mandino, onde convien poi quivi porvi líolio, chÈ líerbe di
gi‡ abbeverate díaceto non posson pigliar líolio; nÈ rimovendole mai, la
maggior parte di quelle si rimangano pura erba, buona da dare aí paperi.
- -- You English are even worse; after washing the salad heaven knows how,
you put the vinegar in first, and enough of it that for a footbath for
Morgante, and serve it up, unstirred, with neither oil nor salt, which
you are supposed to add at the table.  By this time some of the leaves
are so saturated with vinegar that they cannot take the oil while the
rest are quite naked and fit only for chicken food.
***
- -- and whosoever transgresses this benign commandment is condemned never
to enjoy a decent salad in their life, a fate which I fear lies in store
for most inhabitants of this Kingdom.
- -- e chi contro a cosÏ giusto comandamento pecca Ë degno di non mangiar
mai buona insalata.


Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:37:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)
Subject: SC - German Salads in  sca-cooks V1 #2560

Thomas,

Thanks for going to bat on behalf of German salads... I have webbed 3 of Rumpolts 50 in translation, though 2 of them are the ubiquitous oil and vinegar types...

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_salad1.htm

Im still working on the Gebackenes chapter translation (and tomorrow looks like a good day for much progress) and also working on a class on period pickling, A Feast based on Rumpolt (in early November) and getting a class ready for Knowne World Cooks Collegium...

Gwen Cat  ^^ ~
still up to her ears in Caerthe, Outlands


Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 01:38:33 -0400
From: Ann & Les Shelton <sheltons at conterra.com>
Subject: SC - Re: Castelvetro

Subject: Re: SC - Castelvetro & salads (long)
 
John,
I know I'm being a bit ignorant here, but can you tell me a bit about
this individual?  I really liked what he had to say about salads, and
would probably go online to see if someone can scare up a copy of the
book for me...if it's a period source!  Kiri

The author is Giacomo Castelvetro, and the translation I'm reading is by
Gillian Riley.  The full title is "The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of
Italy.  An Offering to Lucy, Countess of Bedford," and is dated 1614. 
Castelvetro was born in 1546.  His support for the Reformation led to
him being smuggled to a sympathetic uncle, who led him on a tour of
France, Switzerland, and Italy. The uncle was a vegetarian and Giacomo
developed an appreciation for simple vegetable dishes.  After his uncle
died, he eventually wound up in England where he received the patronage
of Sir Walter Raleigh and then went to Edinburgh to be the Italian tutor
to James VI.  However, he finally fell on hard times and wrote and
dedicated this book to Lucy, the sister of one of his former pupils,
hoping for patronage (she was broke too and couldn't give him anything).
He died in poverty in 1616.

He breaks down the year into seasons, discussing the vegetables, fruits
and herbs, with simple recipes and frequent digressions {such as the
salad dissertation already noted}.  As another example, he laments the
weedy status of asparagus in London and dedicates 1-1/2 pages to
explaining how it should properly be grown and harvested {also pointing
out that the landowners in Verona had given up growing flax and wheat
because they could make 3 times as much money growing asparagus to sell
to Venice}.

The book is 176 pages and contains a number of color illustrations. 
Riley also adds about 10 pages of glossary and notes.  It was published
in 1989 by Viking Penguin in London, ISBN # 0-670-82724X.  I got the one
I'm reading via ILL from UNC-Charlotte.  I haven't looked for a personal
copy yet, but if the price is reasonable, I intend to buy it.

I hope this answers your question Kiri!

John


Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 22:58:47 -0700
From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>
Subject: RE: SC - salad & Castelvetro translation

Thomas asked after finding a discrepancy in the castelvetro translation:

> What strikes me, are some differences between the English
> version quoted
> and the Italian text:
>
> " ... where we Italians would much rather feast the palate than the
> eye. YOU ENGLISH are even worse; ..."
> " ... ma noi Italici abbiam pi? riguardo di piacere a monna
> bocca. ALTRI
> fan vie peggio, ..."
>
> As far as I can see, there is no mention of "You English", but only of
> "others" in this Italian text (based on the Firpo edition in
> 1974). And
> I cannot find anything that comes close to the "footbath of Morgante",
> nor do I find anything for "a fate which I fear lies in store
> for most inhabitants of this Kingdom" in the Italian text of the Firpo
> edition; "Ë degno" is not "is condemned" but "is worth", "paperi" are
> not chicken, but geese etc.
>
> What is going on here? On which Castelvetro text is the translation
> based? Could someone please take a look?

interestingly the online version ends:
"Finisce il racconto degli erbaggi e deí frutti.  Riscritto in Eltam Parco a
í quattordici di giugno 1614."  which translates as "End of the account of
the herbs and of the fruit.  Written in Eltam Park on the 14th of June 1614"

Whereas the Riley translation ends "The end of the account of the Fruit,
Herbs & Vegetables that are eaten in Italy.  Written out on the 28th day of
September in the village of Charlton in England MDCXIV"


I can't tell from the website which manuscript the online Italian copy is
from, but I assume it is the 1st of the 3 MSs Gilian Riley lists in her
bibliography from the Trinity College library, as relevant to her study:
"R.14.19. dated 14 June 1614
R 3.44. dated 28 June 1614, dedicated to 'Il signore Firolamo Biedo, Il
Senatore'.  This copy contains many reworkings and alterations.
R.3.44a. dated 28 September 1614."

Ms. Riley's translation is primarily based on the MS at the British Museum,
Natural History: M.S. Banks 91. "this is the copy dedicated to Lucy,
Countess of Bedford.  Castelvetro wrote out the dedication himself, the rest
of the MS is written in an elegant French hand by a professional scribe."

Thomas, you'll have to post a translation of some of those rumpolt salads
before I'll agree that Castelvetro would have been "hymnic about them :->

ciao,
Eden


Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 14:49:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2561

At Edens request.. here are the 50 German Salads from Rumpolt... they still
 have some bugs in them and Im hoping if Thomas has not left for his vacation
 yet he can clarify some of them.

[These are from "Ein New Kochbuch" 1581, by Marxen Rumpolt.]

Gwen Catrin von Berlin
---------

Of all sorts of herbal Salad/
White and green/ as follows.
I.
Endive salad with oil and vinegar prepared/ and with
salt.

2. White endive salad cut nicely small.

3. White head (lettuce) salad.

4. White head (lettuce) salad soaked (poached) in water/ and again cooled/ 
prepared with vinegar/ oil and salt/ white sugar/ that is crushed/
poured over/ is also good.

5. Green head (lettuce) salad that is half raw and half poached/ is in both 
ways good/ be it sweet or sour.

6. Green field salad (field greens) prepared / with pomegranate seed sprinkled/
is pretty and decorative.

7. Green salad/ that is small and young/ red beets cut small/
and tossed thereover/ when the salad is prepared/ and the red beets are 
cooked and cooled

8. Of a white head (lettuce) salad/ that is cut nicely small/ one part 
poached in cooked water/ and one part raw. And under the 
poached put capers.

9. Watercress salad/ created in a garden/ or grown near a
running creek/ is not bad either.

<CLVIIIb>
10. Cooked onion salad/ or roasted (fried)/ make it sweet with a white 
sugar/ or with small black raisins.

11. Pumpernelle Salat. <<<Thomas, HELP, I have no clue, and its not in Baufeld either.>>>

12. White Rapunzel (Bot. Campanula Rapunculus. L.) Bellflower aka little turnip / the root poached/ and a part raw combined
with the greens/ is in both ways good to prepare.

13. Round Rapunzzel (Bot. Campanula Rapunculus. L.)  poached/ are also not bad to eat.

14. Hops salad/ that is poached.

15. Asparagus salad/ that is also poached/ and cut small/ or
prepared whole/ is in both ways good. You can make it with Peabroth/
with a little butter/ pepper and vinegar/ served warm to the table.

16. Chicory root salad/ that is peeled nicely clean/ cut the 
pit from it/ poach it well/ but that you do not overcook it/ cool it/ make 
it sweet or sour/ so it is in both ways good.

17 Chicory greens salad/ that is green/ that is poached/ make it 
sweet or sour. If the greens are young. So one can serve it with vinegar/
oil and salt.

18. Large capers soaked and poached.

19. Small caper salad.

20. <<<Sorry, another one I don?t know.If it is a typo (and they do exist) it could be Gurken - cucumbers>>> Peel the Murcken/ and cut them broad and thin/ season them 
with oil/ pepper and salt. But if they are salt-preserved/ they are also not
bad/ are better than raw/ because one can salt it with Fennel and with caraway/ 
that both can be kept over one year. And near the Rhine-stream one 
calls it Cucummern 

21. Take Biesen <<<???>>> stems/ peel and poach then in water/ prepare it with 
oil/ vinegar and salt.

22. Pale salad/ that is green and young/ poach it in water/ season it 
with vinegar/ oil and salt. And this salad one should not eat much of/ because it purges much.

23. Take hard boiled eggs/ serve them especially beside the salad/ sprinkle them with green parsley and salt/ and pour vinegar over.

<CLIXa>
24. Sour orange salad/ peel and cut them nicely thick/ sprinkle them with
white sugar.

25. Salad of pomegranate seeds/ sprinkle also with white
sugar.

26. Sorrell salad.

27. Take lemon salad/ cut it broad and thin/ and sprinkle it with 
white sugar.

28. Nettle salad.

29. Red beet salad/ when they are cooked/ so cut them small/ long or 
diced/ season it with oil/ vinegar and salt/ may make it  sweet or sour.

30. Artichoke with a pea broth/ good butter/ pepper/ salt/
and a little broth given to the table/ and crushed pepper on the side.

31. Artichoke cooked with beef broth/ and brought warm to the table.

32. Take endive stems/ serve them poached or raw/ cut nicely small.

33. Take a red head lettuce/ <<<or is this another word drift? Does he mean red cabbage??>>>  cut it nicely small/ and poach it a little in
warm water/ then cool it quickly/ season it with vinegar and oil/
and when it soaks a while in the vinegar/ it gets nicely red.

34. Of the same greens the stems cut nicely small/ seasoned with vinegar
and oil.

35. Take young pumpkin/ that are not large/ peel and cut them nicely 
long/ remove the seeds/ poach it a little/ cool it thereafter/ and 
season it with vinegar/ salt and oil.

36.Roman Wicken (Bot. Vicia sativa L.) (common Vetch, the seeds seem to be similar to red lentils, but may well be slightly toxic)  and poach them well in their shells/ cool them/
and season them with vinegar/ salt and oil.

37. Take lemon/ chop it small/ season it with nice clean sugar/ that 
has been crushed/ sprinkle it with pomogranate seed/ tha are nicely red/
so it is also delicate and good.

38. Krausen (herb???) salad/ that is nicely green.

39. Take sugar (sugar beet!)/ season it and scrape it/ so they turn white/ poach then in water/ and cool/ season it with vineger/ oil and salt. You can also  serve them raw/ if they are clean and well peeled or scraped.

40. Salad of red leaf lettuce.

41. Take roman beans/ poach and cool them/ prepare them with oil/
vinegar and salt.

42. Take borage, parsley, Pumpernellen <<< here it is again, I still don?t know what it ist>>>/ lemon balm and hyssop/
astragalus? and tarragon/ so it is a combined salad of welltasting
 herbs/ with borage flowers tossed over/ it is pretty and decorative.

43. Take borage root/ scrape it/ and cut the core therefrom/
and dispose of it/ poach the remaining / and cool it/ season it with
oil and salt/ so it is healthful and good.

44.Take radish (I use the daikon type)/ and cut it small/ broad and thin/ poach it in water/ cool it / season it with oil/ vinegar and salt. You may sprinkle it 
with sugar or not.

45. Or take a radish/ cut in small and thin/ or fine diced/ 
season it with vinegar/ oil and salt/ so it is good too.

46. You can also arrange a salad in a bowl/ green 
white and red/ nicely made like a rose/ so it is decorative/ good and welltasting.

47. Kollis Fioris is a Spanish salad/ that one can prepare in all sorts of ways.

48. Take white salad/ that in Spanish <<Thomas did I remember that correctly?>> is called lettuce/ poach it in hot water/ cook it nicely clean/ and cook it with beef broth and fresh butter/ that is unmelted/ make it sweet or
not.

49. Take white salad/ that has been poached/ grate a white loaf and 
parmesan cheese/ cut nutmeg thereunder. Take egg yolks and fresh 
butter/ that is unmelted/ cut beef marrow thereunder/ and put the 
salad thereunder/ and a little crushed ginger/ so it is wonderful
and filling/ make a dough with clean eggs/ work it well/ roll it 
nicely thin/ as a veil/ that it is translucent/ put the filling therein/ and take each a quarter of the lettuce/ wrap it in the dough with the filling/ and make krapffen (crullers) therefrom. Take a good beef broth.and a little whole nutmeg-blossom (mace?)/ set over coals/ and let come to a simmer/ put 
the crullers one after the other therein/ and let simmer gently. So makes one 
Schlickrapffen of lettuce/ that are delicious to eat.

50.Take head (lettuce) salad/ cut it in quarters/ and poach it in water/
press it well (to remove water)/ and take a parmesan cheese/ that is well grated/ and grated bread/ mix it together/ and prepare it with egg yolks and
fresh butter/ take also a little crushed ginger thereunder/ stir it all 
together/ and when you want to wrap it in dough/ so take the salad/
that you have quartered/ roll each quarter especially in 
the filling/ wrap it in the dough/ cook with a pea broth and butter. You 
may serve it dry/ or in the broth/ as you want to have it.


Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 17:05:37 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2561

Martina Grasse wrote: 
> 11. Pumpernelle Salat. <<<Thomas, HELP, I have no clue, and its not in Baufeld either.>>>

Any chance this is a reference to pimpernels, which are a flower of the
primrose family and, I believe, edible? I mean, since we're already
eating hops???

I suspect, BTW, that the hops in the hops salad are the shoots, and not
the buds.

Adamantius


Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 03:22:28 +0200
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - hops salad

<< ... pimpernels, which are a flower of the primrose family and, I
believe, edible? I mean, since we're already eating hops??? >>

Dear friend Tacitus Adamantius,

in 1581, hops salad is nothing new.

- -- Hops salad is mentioned two generations earlier in the writings of
the medical doctor Alexander Seitz ("salat von hopffen bro?len"; ed.
86.6)

- -- In the herbal of Hieronymus Bock (ed. 1577) in the "Hopfen"-chapter,
the author says:
"Jm Fr¸ling lassen die Leckermeuler die jungen dolden der Hopffen zu:om
Sallat bereiten/ wie die jungen Spargen/ vnnd halten das f¸r ein gesunde
spei? der verstopfften Lebern"
(in spring, the glutonous have the young shoots/sprouts (?) of hop
prepared as a salad, comparable to the preparation of young asparagus,
and they think that this is a healthy dish for the
constipated/obstructed liver).
About the latin name of hopfen, he says: "andere nennen den Hopffen
lupulum" (others call hop lupulum).

- -- In the German translation of Platina 1542, chapter IV 14 is about
"hopfen salat" (hops salad), and that sheds some light on the (proper)
translation of the latin version (de conditura Lupulorum). -- I guess,
in Platina IV 14 "hop" is meant (Milham p. 224-25). Faccioli's Italian
translation has "Como condire il luppolo" (how to season hop).

- -- according to Victor Hehn and O. Schrader, the consumption of hop
shoots is mentioned VERY much earlier in the writings of Pliny ...

- -- Re: comsumption of pimpernel ("edible?"), see Platina IV 11 ...

BTW, "Ein Hopffen Salat" (a hops salad) is part of the "Das vierdt
Keyerlich Bancket. Der erste Gang zum Nachtmahl/ am Fasttag" (the fourth
banquet of the/for the emperor/Kaiser. The first course of an evening
meal in lent), Rumpolt's menus p. 17; another hops salad is mentioned in
a menu on p. 29.

Thanks Gwen Cat, for the translation!

Best & more on Rumpolt's salads later,
Thomas


Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 23:10:56 +0200
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - German Salads

Here are some contributions about the translation Rumpolt's salads.

> 11. Pumpernelle Salat. <<<Thomas, HELP, I have no clue, and its not in Baufeld either.>>>

As Adamantius mentioned, this should be pimpernel.
(BTW, salad of "le cime della pimpinella" is mentioned by Castelvetro,
too)


> 20. <<<Sorry, another one I don't know.If it is a typo (and they do exist) it could be Gurken - cucumbers>>> Peel the Murcken/ and cut them

The word _murken_ is listed in Marzells "Verzeichnis" as an expression
for "cucumis sat."; so it seems, that it is not a typo but a rare
expression.

> 21. Take Biesen <<<???>>> stems/ peel and poach then in water/ prepare 

According to Hopf #378 and Marzell, this should be white beets.

> 33. Take a red head lettuce/ <<<or is this another word drift? Does he mean red cabbage??>>>  

According to the dictionaries (Hopf, DWb) it is cabbage.

> 38. Krausen (herb???) salad/ that is nicely green.

Hm, _kraus_ is 'curly, frizzy'

> 48. Take white salad/ that in Spanish <<Thomas did I remember that correctly?>> is called lettuce/ 

Here, "auff Welsch" is rather "in Italian". While it is true that
"Waelsch" was used to refer to Spanish, to French and even as a common
expression for all the romanic languages and peoples, around 1600 it was
used to refer to the Italian language and to the Italians. The strange
ways of the history of words ...

Thanks again, Gwen Cat, for the good work!
Thomas


Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 00:17:57 +0200
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - German salads & Insalata da carnovale

> Here are some contributions about the translation Rumpolt's salads.

Sorry, my syntax etc. got scrambled somehow ... ;-(

Here is a recipe of penitence ... and a challenge for our Italian
translators. The text is from the recipe book of a nun, Perugia, Italy,
1583-1607 (G. Casagrande, ed.: Gola e preghiera, 1988):

16 (7v) Insalata da carnovale 
Piglia fegatelli, piei, ventricchi, piei mondi, abrusscati, e 
lava e metteli a lessare con sale comme la carne e poi cava 
fegatelli e piei che si cocano pi? presto, e ventricchi falli bollire
pi?, e trita facendo quadretti grandetti e vitella pure cosÏ; si
volle ova sodi e spaccarli e fare quadretti an frate lunghi i pezzi
di ova e limoni; senpre prima lava limoni con acqua, fa fietti 
tondi e poi spartele per mezzo e fa pezzuoli lucghi tagliati in 
guincio a quello modo che Ë dentro il forte de limoni e poi 
zecchette pretrosello lavato, poi mette in piatette mettendo aceto 
solo non sale e pevere.
 
Have fun,
Thomas


Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 13:22:21 -0700
From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>
Subject: SC - Insalata da carnovale

This is a first pass only, because there are several words I'm unsure of but
I can't follow up right now as I have a sick ferret in my lap so I can only
use the books withn reach of the computer :->

"Salad for carnival
Take liver, feet, lungs, peeled feet, sear and wash and put to boil with
salt as in the meat and then turn out liver and feet that cook more quickly,
and lungs leave to boil more, and slice making great roundels? and good veal
this way; if you want them boiled eggs and split them and make roundels? and
in  long the pieces of egg and lemons; always first wash lemons with water,
make round slices and then separate in half and make pieces cut strewn? in
this mode that is within the strength of the lemon and then sprinkle??
washed parsley, then put in little plates putting on it vinegar only not
salt and pepper."

whew! thomas you were right, this one is a challenge.  Here are the words I
have the most problem with in case anyone sans ferret wants to track down
more resources translations :->
Eden

quadretti - little dishes, roundlets, wreathes, or chargers per Florio
grandetti - greatened/enlarged per Florio
an frate - from "fratto" broken, bruised.. per florio
lucghi - typo for "lunghi"?
guincio - typo for "giunco" which can mean strewn?
zecchette - from "zacchera" splashed


To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org, sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thanksgiving feasts
From: Kirrily Robert <skud at infotrope.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:51:11 -0500

Finnebhir wrote:
>> Now, the one gelled exception is aspic, but that does really follow the
>> rule. It isn't about gelatin, it's about sweetness. Aspic is tart. A salad
>> is tart and vinegary and sets off the meal. Right? *G*
>
>Actually there are two kinds of salads, according to quite a few culinary
>dictionarys. there are simple salads and compound salads. A simple salad
>would be the basic mixed greens and a compound salad f(or example) would be
>something like Waldorf or carrot/raisin salad. Most compound salads don't
>have a lettuce base, if I remember correctly. But it can indeed be jello-
>based or even apic based.
>
>From Cuisine Profeesionelle:
> simple salad is a salad of lettuce, as well as those made from a single
>vegetable, raw or cooked
>  compound salads are all salads made with various vegertables and garnish
>based on meat, fish, pasta, cereals, crustaceans or poultry
> they also are subjected to a more elaborate presentation

For an early 17th century definition of the same terms, see
http://localhost/sca/texts/english-housewife/sallets.html where it says,
in part:

"First then to speak of Sallets, there be some simple, some compounded,
some only to furnish out the Table, and some both for use and adornation:
your simple Sallets are Chibols pilled, washt clean, and half of the green
tops cut clean away, and so served on a fruit dish, or Chives, Scallions,
Rhaddish roots, boyled Carrets, Skirrets and Turnips, with such like served
up simply: Also, all young Lettuce, Cabbage-Lettuce, Purslane, and divers
other herbs which may be served simply without any thing but a little
Vinegar, Sallet Oyl and Sugar; Onions boyled; and stript from their rind,
and served up with Vinegar, Oyl and Pepper, is a good simple Sallet; so is
Camphire, Bean-cods, Sparagus, and Cucumbers, served in likewise with Oyl,
Venegar and Pepper, with a world of others, too tedious to nominate."
--
Lady Katherine Robillard  (mka Kirrily "Skud" Robert)
katherine at infotrope.net  http://infotrope.net/sca/
Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere


From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:57:22 EDT
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] salad dressings
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

stefan at texas.net writes:
> What period salad dressings have you found? I seem to remember oils
> or oil and vinegar being mentioned but I can't remember any others.

The one I'm referring to is the oil and vinegar one, from this recipe:

SALAT
(From Forme of Curye, English, 1390, as redacted by Brangwayna Morgan )

 Take persel, sawge, grene garlec, chibolles, oynouns, leek, borage, myntes,
porrettes, fenel and toun cressis, rew, rosemarye, purslarye; laue and
waische hem clene. Pike hem. Pluk hem small with thyn honde and myng hem wel
with rawe oil; lay on vyneger and salt, and serue it forth.

Modern English:  Take parsley, sage, green garlic, spring onions, onions,
leek, borage, mint, young leeks, fennel and garden cress, rue, rosemary,
purslane;  lave and wash them clean, pick them over.  Pluck them small with
your hand and mix them well with raw oil; lay on vinegar and salt, and serve
it forth.

While it appears from the recipe that the oil and vinegar were added directly
to the salat before it was served; I choose to mix the oil, vinegar, salt,
garlic, and some of the other herbs (usually the sage, as I've had people
concerned about what the "fuzzy stuff" in the salat was, and the rosemary, as
a lot of people don't care to chomp down on a pine needle...) separately and
provide it in a small cup, so people can use the amount of their choice,
including none if they so desire.  This is one of my ways of working around
the allergy thing - if there is something in the dressing that someone
doesn't want, they can still eat the greens dry if they choose.

Brangwayna


From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:55:18 EDT
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salat
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

marilyn.traber.jsfm at statefarm.com writes:
> I don't particularly like dry salad.

I don't either, but I know people who choose to eat it dry even when they
have a choice of dressings.  My father among them.

> I also don't see using the herbs as part of a vinaigrette dressing, per se.
> It is a salat of green leaves plucked off from their stems, torn as needed
> to bite sized bits, dressed with oil and 'garnished' with vinegar and salt.

Oh, I understand that.  Every other herb, and I've used most of the stuff on
the list in the recipe (except for borage, rue, and purslane, all due to lack
of availability), goes in the bowl.  I've put the sage leaves into the bowl;
that's what led to people continually coming up to me to ask what the fuzzy
stuff in the salad was.  It was obvious they didn't like it in it's natural
state.  Therefore, rather than omit it, I chose to add it to the oil and
vinegar instead.  Pretty much the same deal with the roasemary.

> Although I don't see chopping the 'herbal' ingredients into herbs suitable
> for vinaigrette dressing. I might infuse the rosemary into the vinegar or
> oil in a non-period manner [I don't like eating pine needles either!] and
> simply remove the leaves from the stems and gently toss with oil in a bowl,
> and serve the separate vinegar and salt or if it were to my table at home
> drizzle on teh vinegar and salt and toss for serving.

That would be another option.

Brangwayna


From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
To: "SCA Cook's List" <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:31:29 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Compound Salat- was A cheesy question

I was sending this along to my food staff for our upcoming event, and so I
thought I'd resend it here as well, since I suggested it as an alternative
to so much cheese in the 'Cheesy Question' thread.
Christianna

THe recipe we use in the Madrone Culinary GUild is a huge hit every time....we
actually get little green salat back. wonders never cease! :)
all rights reserved, no publichation without permission, etc etc etc....:)
Anne-Marie


COMPOUND SALAT:

Salat [Forme of Curye XX III.XXVI]
Take persel, sawge, garlee, chibon [chives], oynons, leek, borage, mynt,
porrect, fenel and ton tressis [gloss], rew, rosemarye, purslayre, lave and
waische hem clene, pike hem, pluk ye small with thyn honde and mynge hem wel
with rawe oile, layor vyneg and salt, and serve it forth.

Compound Sallet [The English Hous-wife, 1615]: To compound an excellet Sallet,
and which indeed is usuall at great Feasts, and upon Princes Tables, take a
good quantity of blancht Almonds, and with your shredding knife cut them
grossly. Then take as many Raisins of the Sun clean washt, and the stones pickt
out, as many Figs shred like the Almonds, as many Capers, twice so many Olives,
and as many Currants as of all the rest, clean washt, a good handfull of the
small tender leaves of red Sage and Spinage: mixe all these well together with
good store of Sugar, and lay them in the bottom of a great dish. Then put unto
them Vineger and Oyl, and scrape more Suger over all: then take Oranges and
Lemmons, and paring away the outward pilles cut them into thinne slices. Then
with those slices cover the Sallet all over. Then over those Red leaves lay
other course of old Olives, and the slices of well pickled Cucumbers, together
with the very inward heart of Cabbage lettice cut into slices. Then adorn the
sides of the dish, and the top of the Sallet with more slices of Lemons and
Oranges, and so serve it up.

Our version:
0.125 c. slivered almonds
1 oz capers
2 oz currants
0.125 c. figs
1 tsp lemon juice
1.5 heads of lettuce, spinach and other greens
1/4 c. olive oil
2 oz olives
1 orange, peeled and sliced (no white part). Reserve half for garnish
1 oz sweet pickles
0.125 c. raisens
1 pinch salt
1 tsp sugar
0.5 c. balsamic vinegar
4-5 lemon slices for garnish

Slice, chop and/or shred all ingredients. Layer in a nice salad bowl. Make a
vinegrette dressing from the oil, vinegar, salt and sugar. Pour on Sallet,
sprinkle with lemon juice and serve, garnished with lemon and orange slices.


From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:48:55 -0500 (EST)
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] lettuce?

In the course of checking out what greens would be available at a
particular season, I found that Hill (Gardener's Labyrinth, 1579?)
suggests that you should do succession plantings of lettuce so as to have
it all season. Do the menus we have found indicate that lettuce was used
often in that time period?

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa   jenne at fiedlerfamily.net


From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:41:25 -0500 (EST)
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lettuce?

> Also sprach jenne at fiedlerfamily.net:
> >In the course of checking out what greens would be available at a
> >particular season, I found that Hill (Gardener's Labyrinth, 1579?)
> >suggests that you should do succession plantings of lettuce so as to have
> >it all season. Do the menus we have found indicate that lettuce was used
> >often in that time period?
>
> Offhand, I don't remember seeing it on menus, but it does appear in
> Tacuini Sanitatis.  I think it's a southern European thing (we know
> the Romans ate it, for example). I'll see if I can find it in salad
> recipes in sources like Markham.

Sidelight: the Bayard translation of _Le Menagier de Paris_ (_A Medieval
Home Companion_) mentions sowing lettuce in March but doesn't mention
succession planting.

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa   jenne at fiedlerfamily.net


Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:39:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lettuce?
From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:48 PM, jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
wrote:
> In the course of checking out what greens would be available at a
> particular season, I found that Hill (Gardener's Labyrinth, 1579?)
> suggests that you should do succession plantings of lettuce so as to
> have it all season. Do the menus we have found indicate that lettuce was
> used often in that time period?

I did a quick search through "Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books" and
didn't find any references to lettuce.  "Curye on Inglysh" has lettuce
appearing in two recipes (see below) in one particular manuscript of
"Form of Curye", however lettuce doesn't seem to be mentioned in any of
the other manuscripts, and 2 recipes out of 205 is not a high
percentage.

8  Iowtes of Flessh.  Take borage, cool, langdebef, persel, betes
[/letuys], orage, auance, violet, saueray, and fenkel; and whanne
(th)ey buth sode, presse hem wel, hakke [/& hew] hem smale; cast hem in
gode broth & se(th) hem and serue hem forth.

78  Salat.  Take persel, sage, grene garlec, chibolles, onynouns, leek,
borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew, rosemarye,
purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem smale
wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with rawe oile; lay on vyneger
and salt, and serue it forth.

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
  http://www.medievalcookery.com/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:04:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lettuce?
From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 03:41 PM, Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus
Adamantius wrote:
>> 78  Salat.  Take persel, sage, grene garlec, chibolles, onynouns,
>> leek,
>> borage, myntes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis, rew, rosemarye,
>> purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem smale
>> wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with rawe oile; lay on vyneger
>> and salt, and serue it forth.
>
> You know, I thought there might be a reference to lettuce in the
> second recipe above, but I don't see any use of the word at all.

D'oh!  Forgot to put in the addition that the footnote specified for
that particular manuscript (the three-year old just woke up from his
nap and distracted me).  The amended recipe reads as follows:

78  Salat.  Take persel, sage, grene garlec, chibolles, letys, leek,
borage, myntes, prymros, violettes, porrettes, fenel, and toun cressis,
rew, purslarye; laue and waische hem clene.  Pike hem.  Pluk hem smale
wi(th) (th)yn honde, and myng hem wel with good oile; lay on vyneger
and salt, and serue it forth.

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
  http://www.medievalcookery.com/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:49:35 -0500 (EST)
To: <EKCooksGuild at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: [EKCooksGuild] The commentary- very long

> first fresh herbs of spring. With Jadwiga's help, I determined what the
> early herbs available would be, and at Adamantius' suggestion used a
> commercial salad mix, mesclun, which closely approximated her findings.
> Although I feel Germans in period would have used an animal fat, such as
> lard or butter, I used olive oil to make it edible for our vegetarians, and
> dressed the greens lightly with balsamic vinegar, after they were wilted.

Hm... Gwen cat's translation of Rumpolt specifies mostly oil for the
salads, even the poached ones:
http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_salad1.htm

So you probably weren't too far off.

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa   jenne at fiedlerfamily.net


Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:21:14 -0400
From: Ariane H <phoenissa at netscape.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] A poem about salad
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

So, earlier this week I was leafing through one of my poetry books, and
I found this gem of an ode by Pierre de Ronsard, one of the brightest
stars of the French Renaissance (I think it was written in the 1560's).
It's called "La Salade" and is really lovely, and I thought that it
might be of some interest to this list.  The general gist of it is that
Ronsard is speaking to his young friend and apprentice poet, while
they're going out into the fields to collect young greens to make a
salad, and as they're making the salad he's telling the boy about a
poet's lifestyle and responsibilities.  But he also lists the
ingredients and process of putting their salad together.  It's about 150
lines, much too long to reproduce in full, but I'd like to share a few
of the choicer excerpts (with my own admittedly rather free translation
- I had to relie on footnotes and the dictionary for some of the plants'
names):

"Lave ta main, qu'elle soit belle et nette/ Resveille toy--apporte une
serviette;/Une salade amasson, et faison/Part a nos ans des fruicts de
la saison."
"Wash your hands, so they're nice and clean,/Wake up--bring a
napkin;/We'll gather a salad, and make/The season's bounty a part of our
years (?)." (ll.1-4)

"Tu t'en iras, Jamyn, d'une autre part,/Chercher songneux la boursette,
toffue,/La pasquerette a la feuille menue,/Le pimprenelle heureuse pour
le sang/Et pour la ratte, et pour le mal de flanc;/Je cueilleray,
compagne de la mousse,/La responsette a la racine douce,/Et le bouton
des nouveaux groiseliers/Qui le Printemps annoncent les premiers."
"You'll go, Jamyn, in another direction,/To look carefully for the
shepherd's purse, toffue (??),/The slim-leafed daisy,/The pimpernel
healthful for the blood/And for the spleen, and for side-aches;/I will
gather, among the moss,/The campanula (bluebell) with the sweet
roots,/And the buds of the young currant bushes/Which Spring first
announces." (ll. 12-20)

"La, recoursant jusqu'au coude nos bras,/Nous laverons nos herbes a main
pleine/Au cours sacre de ma belle fontaine;/La blanchirons de sel en
mainte part,/L'arrouserons de vinaigre rosart,/L'engresserons de l'huile
de Provence:/L'huile qui vient aux oliviers de France/Rompt l'estomac,
et ne vaut de tout rien."
"There, our arms plunged in up to our elbows,/We'll wash our herbs with
our own hands/In the courtyard of my sacred fountain;/We'll whiten it
with a scant amount of salt,/We'll sprinkle is with rosy vinegar,/We'll
enrich it with oil from Provence:/The oil that comes from French
olive-trees/Tears apart the stomach, and is worth nothing at all."  (ll.
24-31)

That's pretty much all there is about the salad itself, but I found it
interesting.  I love the little bit of humoral theory in the verse on
the properties of the pimpernel, as well as the olive oil critique. :)
And the list of ingredients is pretty intriguing - it's got me wondering
what it all means.  For example, buds of the currant bush - does anyone
know if the flower buds are actually edible, or is this just a poetic
way of describing the fruit?  And the line about slim-leafed daisies
immediately made me think of dandelion greens, but that might have just
been a random association on my part.  Anyway, I hope others have found
this poem interesting and entertaining too...

Vittoria


Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:25:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Serving salads 
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> From: "Harris Mark.S-rsve60" <Mark.s.Harris at motorola.com>
> In Anne-Marie's recent list of period/period-like
> food items which could be picked up from the grocery
> store, she mentioned:
> "--green salad from a salad bar or in a bag, with a
> vineagrette dressing on the side" and that made me
> wonder just how salads were served in period.

> The meat was often sliced at the table by the
> server, not generaly by the guest or previously by
> the kitchen. So, I'm wondering if the same applies
> to salads. Again, I can see three possiblities:
> 1) topped? tossed? in the kitchen with the dressing
> 2) topped at the table by the server
> 3) topped at the table by the guest.
> 
> Do we know from feast or possibly salad descriptions
> how it was done? This may be in the salad-msg file
> in the Florilegium, but I haven't looked.

According to an Italian if you lived anywhere outside
of Italy Salad was prepared and dressed the wrong way.

On salads from Giacomo Castelvetro
Translation from "The fruit, herbs & vegetables of
Italy: an offering to Lucy Countess of Bedford. 
Giacomo Castelvetro, Gillian Riley.  1989 Viking, New
York, NY.  A copy of which was provided to me by
Johnnae Ilyn Lewis last year. 
[His dates are 1546-1616.- Johnnae]

The right way to make a good salad
Of all the salads we eat in the spring, the mixed
salad is the best and most wonderful of all.  Take
young leaves of mint, those of garden cress, basil,
lemon balm, the tips of salad burnet, tarragon, the
flowers and tenderest leaves of borage, the flowers of
swine cress, the young shoots of fennel, leaves of
rocket, of sorrel, rosemary flowers, some sweet
violets, and the tenderest leaves or the hearts of
lettuce.  When these precious herbs have been picked
clean and washed in several waters, and dried a little
with a clean linen cloth, they are dressed as usual,
with oil, salt and vinegar.
It takes more than good herbs to make a good salad, for
success depends on how they are prepared. So, before
going any further, I think I should explain exactly
how to do this.
It is important to know how to wash your herbs, and
then how to season them.  Too many housewives and
foreign cooks get their greenstuff all ready to wash
and put it in a bucket of water, or some other pot,
and slosh it about a little, and then, instead of
taking it out with their hands, as they ought to do,
they tip the leaves and water out together, so that
all the sand and grit is poured out with them. 
Distinctly unpleasant to chew on...
So, you must first wash your hands, then put the
leaves in a bowl of water, and stir them round and
round, then lift them out carefully.  Do this at least
three or four times, until you can see that all the
sand and rubbish has fallen to the bottom of the pot. 

Next you must dry the salad properly and season it
correctly.  Some cooks put their badly washed, barely
shaken salad into a dish with the leaves still so
drenched with water that they will not take the oil,
which they should to taste right.  So I insist that
first you must shake your salad really well and then
dry it thoroughly with a clean linen cloth so that the
oil will adhere properly.  Then put it into a bowl in
which you have previously put some salt and stir them
together, and then add the oil with a generous hand,
and stir the salad again with clean fingers or a knife
and fork, which is more seemly, so that each leaf is
properly coated with oil.
Never do as the Germans and other uncouth nations do -
pile the badly washed leaves, neither shaken nor
dried, up in a mound like a pyramid, then throw on a
little salt, not much oil and far too much vinegar,
without even stirring.  And all this done to produce a
decorative effect, where we Italians would much rather
feast the palate than the eye.  
You English are even worse, after washing the salad
heaven knows how, you put the vinegar in the dish
first, and enough of that for a footbath for Morgante,
and serve it up, unstirred with neither oil nor salt,
which you are supposed to add at table.  By this time
some of the leaves are so saturated with vinegar that
they cannot take the oil, while the rest are quite
naked and fit only for chicken food.  
So to make a good salad the proper way, you should put
the oil in first of all, stir it into the salad, then
add the vinegar and stir again.  And if you do not
enjoy this, complain to me.
The secret of a good salad is plenty of salt, generous
oil and little vinegar, hence the Sacred law of
salads: 
Insalata ben salata, Poco aceta & ben oliata. : Salt
the salad quite a lot, Then generous oil put in the
pot, And vinegar but just a jot. 
And whosoever transgresses this benign commandment is
condemned never to enjoy a decent salad in their life,
a fate which I fear lies in store for most of the
inhabitants of this kingdom.


Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:14:01 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <douard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] (no subject)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Ja 25, 2005, at 5:23 AM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
> Stefan wrote:
>> Does anyone else have some references to specific period salad
>> dressings? I've got a fairly large salad file in the Florilegium.
>> Perhaps it would be nice to have a companion, salad-dressings-msg file
>> if enough of such things exist.
>
> The several recipes i'm familiar with say to dress the greens with
> oil, vinegar, and salt (and maybe pepper). I recall it specifically
> from Form of Cury (on my website, but inaccessible util Feb 1 because
> usage has exceeded my allotted bandwidth), and ISTR it in other later
> cookbooks.

Is this the one?

Salat. XX.III. XVI. Take persel, sawge, garlec, chibolles, oynouns,
leek, borage, myntes, porrectes, fenel and ton tressis, rew, rosearye,
purslarye, laue and waische hem clene, pike hem, pluk hem small wiþ þyn
honde and myng hem wel with rawe oile. lay on vynegur and salt, and
serue it forth.
[Forme of Cury]

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouad Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
   http://www.medievalcookery.com/


Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:07:44 -0500
From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Math time for feast Prep
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

An Excellent Boiled Salad - English Huswife book 2, p.40 (GOOD)
To make an excellent compound boil'd Sallat: take of Spinage well washt two
or three handfuls, and put it into faire water and boile it till it bee
exceeding soft and tender as pappe; then put it into a Cullander and draine
the water from it, which done, with the backside of your Chopping- knife chop
it and bruise it as small as may bee: then put it into a Pipkin with a good
lump of sweet butter and boile it over again; then take a good handfull of
Currants cleane washt and put to it, and stirre them well together, then put
to as much Vinegar as will make it reasonable tart, and then with sugar
season it according to the taste of the Master of the house, and so serve it
upon sippets.

10 ounces spinach
2 T butter
5/8 c currants
3 T wine vinegar
4 T sugar
1 lb loaf of white bread or more, toasted (sippets)

Serve on slices of toast.


Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:12:22 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OoP: Crudites
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> So - to re-iterate again what i've already said before - i'm looking
> for a third a dip - one that is light (i.e., not dense in weight or
> fats) and has NO dairy, since the spinach dip will be made with
> yogurt and sour cream, and the hummos is dense in weight.

I was pretty surprised this weekend, when I made up the radish salad
from rumpolt, with a dressing of wine vinegar, olive oil and salt. I
couldn't stop eating the slices of daikon radish...
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 


Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:32:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] fennel and orange salad
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

I don't have my books here at work (caveat out of the way), however,  
I will post the appropriate references later.

   The book on Italian food (Italian Cuisine: A cultural history,  
Capatti et al) indicates that sweet or fleshy fennel was actually a  
food that was starting to spread in Italy in the mid to late 16th  
century.

   I have the book on geography of food crops at home and as far  as  
I remember it also indicated that bulb/florence/fleshy fennel is a  
16th century crop.  Before then you have the herb type fennel which  
has much less flesh at the base and is mostly stalks with flowers/seeds.
   The salads in Scappi menus for the most part are often single  
item, not compound salads.  So you find salad of asparagus, salad of  
fennel, salad of lettuce etc.  Also there is call for a salad of sour  
oranges dressed with sugar and rosewater, think plate of sliced  
oranges with yummy stuff on.

   There is interestingly a book on salads (Archidopero overo  
dell'insalata) which was published just out of SCA period (1615)  
which covers salads quite comprehensively and has a lot to say about  
what you dress your salad with.

   Now in this book the acids with which you dress your salad vary  
dependent upon the time of year and what you are dressing.
   All salads are dressed with salt and olive oil,
   Acid choices are verjuice, sour orange juice, vinegar,
   Sweet notes may be added by adding mosto cotto.
   Now I cannot tell you what the choice is for fennel (because I  
haven't looked it up yet), however the choice for asparagus is a  
dressing consisting of sour orange juice, salt and olive oil.  I have  
tried this it is a really good combination.

   The dressing combination for roasted onions is vinegar, mosto  
cotto, pepper, salt and oil, also excellent.

   That said I expect that sour orange juice dressing is also one of  
the ones suggested for fennel.  (please note that I have not looked  
it up yet).  So a fennel and orange salad is possible in period BUT  
it is likely not fennel and chunks of sour orange as much as fennel  
served with sour orange dressing.

   I'll follow up later tonight when I have my references handy.

   Helewyse


Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:01:22 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] non-political sallets
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Not to interupt the political discussion, but I'm teaching my Sallets &
Green Pottages class again this Saturday. I'm pretty sure I'm missing
some useful Salad recipes from my handout (I think I've asked for
feedback on the handout before, but it's always welcome). Yes, Stefan, I
*have* looked in the Florilegium file *grin*

Anyway period recipes for salads & cooked greens would be welcome.

BTW, here's the handout:
http://gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/cooking/greens.html

I'd especially like to hear responses to this:

A simple way to do this is to pick over, wash and dry well, and combine

     * 1 part herb leaves minced
     * 1 part parsley
     * 3 parts spring mix or mesclun
     * 2 parts spinach and/or lettuce
     * Optional: 1 part minced scallions, leeks, onions, and/or chives

Dress with vinegar (red or white wine vinegar, balsamic, cider, etc. but
NOT distilled), olive or nut oils, and a sprinkle of salt. You can add
garnishes of herb leaves, flowers, parsley, pomegranate seeds, and/or
lemons. A dash of sugar in your dressing is permissible.

Also this definition of Green pottages:
Basically, this class uses the term to describe cooked greens, and
especially cooked greens with a liquid.
Cooked greens thickened with a little milk, almond milk, eggs, cheese,
and/or broth is a standard of medieval cooking.
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 


Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:04:32 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Periodoid sallads
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Apr 25, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:
> I have a simple question for my fellow cooks.
>
> Would you attempt to make a period-style sallet with period salad greens
> and dressing, but not exactly following one of the extant recipes?
>
> If so, how would you do it?

I'd work on the assumption that few people actually would find all
the greens specified in, say, the sallet recipe in [I think] the
Forme of Cury. I believe they must be suggestions based on a rough
list of what was around in the vicinity and season  specific to the
writing of that recipe. If you're not there and then, you're unlikely
to find all the ingredients in one place at one time. OTOH, if
Richard II's cooks weren't there and then, neither, I suspect, would
they, but I doubt they'd refrain from trying to make a salad if
confronted with the produce section at Wegman's. "That sucketh.
Freshhe owtte of purselaine. Back to ye olde drawyngge boorde."

So, if I'm hearing your question correctly, what would I do to
impersonate Richard II's cooks trying to make a salad, confronted
with the produce section of Wegman's? (We don't actually have
Wegman's here, but you get my drift, I'm sure.)

I'd include some kind of soft, baby lettuces -- Boston, or maybe
Romaine hearts. Endive, which I don't think is period, but its
relative, chicory, is. Definitely watercress, maybe some baby mustard
greens if I could find them (Asian groceries often have them). Maybe
a few dandelion greens, and perhaps some baby spinach in lieu of
mallows. The recipe in FoC seems to rather stress the alia, so
probably one or more oniony greens, say, chives or garlic or scallion
tops, or some baby leeks or ramps,  would seem to be indicated.
Copious amounts of parsley to balance them, maybe just a little fresh
dill,  some mint leaves... I'd think about avoiding those herbs that
blacken easily if bruised, purely for presentation purposes, so while
a few fresh sage leaves might be nice, I'd think about omitting them
under some circumstances. Dandelion greens, if I could find them,
just because, and purslane for the texture, if I could get some.

One of the big differences between period and modern salads (I'm
speaking _very_ generally here) is that too often a modern salad
seems not to be very flavorful. Between the fragging iceberg lettuce,
the need to keep everything cold, and the relegation of flavorful and
aromatic herbs to the seasonings shelf, too many people think of
salad as a bland food whose flavor is enhanced by a pungent dressing.
My suspicion is that a good salad in the springtime may have been
considered very nearly a medical necessity as a tonic, the winter
diet being rather limited in comparison. So, what we're going for is
bowls of herbs some moderns might see purely as a seasoning, used as
part of the bulk of the dish. Now that's flavor.

As I recall, we're not working with emulsified vinaigrettes, and
contrary to modern (and even periodish, if you look at sources like
Evelyn's "Acetaria") wisdom, the oil is laid on first, then vinegar.
I suspect some of the raw greens might be a little tough to digest,
and the oil is partly there for a, shall we say, mechanical reason
(remember to cut the tougher greens in small pieces).

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:25:52 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Periodoid sallads
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Apr 25, 2006, at 5:11 PM, Devra at aol.com wrote:
> I always thought that the oil went on first so as to coat the
> greens, and prevent them from being wilted by the vinegar...
>      Devra

It's certainly possible, but I don't think anyone ever said exactly
why. My own preference is to do the reverse, immediately before
serving. I find it lets the vinegar cling to each leaf a little
better instead of forming a pool at the bottom of the bowl, and
softens the effect of the vinegar in the mouth.

You do sort of have to wonder why the practice of adding the oil
first seems to have been largely abandoned. There must be some
reason. Maybe medieval and Renaissance salads weren't tossed in bowls
prior to serving?

Adamantius


Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:35:46 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Chicken Salad
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

BARIDA OF IBRAHIM IBN AL-MAHDI
9th century, 'Abbasid Dynasty, Baghdad

I served this at a Laurel vigil buffet for two vigilees simultaneously.

ORIGINAL
translated by David Waines in "In a Caliph's Kitchen", pp. 82-83

Two parts almonds and sugar and two parts vinegar and mustard mixed
together in a vessel with partially dried safflower adding colour
around the edges. Cucumber peeled, qutha and faqqas and pomegranate,
chopped up small and sprinkled around the vessel. Add a little oil.
Take a fine young chicken, cooked in vinegar, jointed and cut up in
pieces and placed over the other ingredients in one vessel. Decorate
the dish with pomegranate (seeds) and with almonds and olives chopped
up fine.

Comments [by David Waines]
This cold dish made from chicken was devised by Ibrahim ibn al-Mahdi.
The recipe is expressed in poetic form, not surprising from a man who
was not only a gourmand, but well known as a poet too. He describes
the dish as perfect summertime fare. The physician al-Razi observes
that such dishes of the bawarid type, when made with vinegar or with
the juice of sour fruits, serve to cool the temperament and moderate
it. "Qutha" and "faqqus", mentioned in the original recipe, are
species of cucumber.
- - - - - David Waines, In a Caliph's Kitchen, pp. 82-83

MY VERSION

9 lb. chicken parts
bottle (about 24 oz.) rice vinegar
1/2 cup ground almonds
1/3 cup sugar
1 cup white wine vinegar
1 cup prepared Dijon mustard
partially dried safflower
2 English Cucumbers, diced (no need to peel or seed)
seeds from 3 pomegranates
1/2 cup sesame oil
2 cups slivered blanched almonds
1 cup pitted purple/black olives
1 cup pitted green olives

1. Cook chicken in vinegar, adding a little water as necessary.
The liquid doesn't need to completely cover the chicken, as long as
the cook periodically turns pieces so all spend time submerged. I
don't remember how long this took - 1/2 hour?
2. Mix together almonds and sugar, with vinegar and mustard and
spread around serving dish, then put safflower around the edges.
3. Cut cucumber into medium sized dice. No need to peel or seed.
4. Peel pomegranates over a bowl of cold water, dropping seeds into
water. When done, remove "floaty bits" and drain seeds. Take care
because pomegranate can stain.
5. Sprinkle cucumber and 2/3 of pomegranate seeds around serving dish
on top of mustard sauce.
6. Sprinkle with a little oil.
7. Cool chicken, joint it and cut up in pieces.
8. Place chicken over the other ingredients in serving dish.
9. Decorate the dish with additional pomegranate seeds, slivered
almonds, and sliced olives.

NOTES:
1. I used rice vinegar to cook the chicken because it is milder than
wine vinegar and i didn't want the vinegar taste to be too strong.
2. Prepared Dijon mustard was a short cut; i realize it is not really
"period". It is unclear whether powdered mustard seed or a prepared
mustard would be used in the original.
3. I used safflower, but i think saffron would be more effective.
4. English cucumbers are the closest i could find to those Middle
Eastern cucumbers. They are so much nicer than the usual cucumbers,
much less bitter, less watery, and not "burpy" at all.
5. For the Vigil, we skinned the cooked chicken, then separated the
meat from the bones, discarding fat and connective tissues.
6. For the Vigil, we tossed the cucumber with the mustard sauce, and
took all ingredients to the site in separate zip-close bags, then
tossed chicken with mustard-tossed cucumber and 2/3 of pomegranates,
then put it on the platter and decorated it.
7. I used two colors of olives for aesthetic purposes.

This works well even if all the ingredients are tossed together,
because of their varied colors, although the presentation is far less
dramatic.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:33:26 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Help with a sallat from Markham?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I've tried, once, to make this compound sallat from Markham, and I have
some questions:

The recipe:
Another compound Sallat.
To compound an excellent sallat, and which indeed is usual at great
feasts, and upon princes' tables; take a good quantity of blanched
almonds, and with your shredding knife cut them grossly; then take as
many raisins of the sun, clean washed and the stones picked out, as many
figs shred like the almonds, as many capers, twice so many olives, and
as many currants as of all the rest, clean washed, a good handful of the
small tender leaves of red sage and spinach; mix all these well together
with good store of sugar, and lay them in the bottom of a great dish;
then put unto them vinegar and oil, and scrape more sugar over all; then
take oranges, and lemons, and, paring away the outward peels, cut them
into thin slices, then with those slices cover the sallat all over;
which done, take the fine thin leave of the red cauliflower, and with
them cover the oranges and lemons all over; then over those red leaves
lay another course of old olives, and the slices of well pickled
cucumbers, together with the very inward heart of your cabbage lettuce
cut into slices; then adorn the sides of the dish, and top of the sallat
with more slices of lemons and oranges, and so serve it up.

Red sage-- is that just the redder type of sage, as we know it?
Also, cabbage lettuce vs. red cauliflower?  Can I use red cabbage? Red
Kale? for the red cauliflower? Should I use bibb or similar lettuce for
the cabbage lettuce?
Are Old Olives different from the regular ones? I'm assuming I am
neither pitting nor slicing the olives. I was thinking of the olive type
called 'dry' for the old olive.
in 1611-1615, would the oranges be bitter or sweet? What's the best way
to slice these peeled citrus?
--  
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net  


Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:08:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Help with a sallat from Markham?
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

> From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
> I've tried, once, to make this compound sallat from Markham, and I  
> have some questions:
>
> The recipe:
> Another compound Sallat.

➢	Red sage-- is that just the redder type of sage, as we know it?
➢	
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/s/sages-05.html#com suggests its
the same as regular old common sage.

http://www.holisticonline.com/Herbal-Med/_Herbs/h287.htm says it's  
"Balvia officinal, also known as Garden Sage and Purple Topped sage.

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/index/Ingredients/Plants/Red_Sage says
pretty much the same thing (picture included)

Note sure if this is the historical red sage, but it's a start.

> Also, cabbage lettuce vs. red cauliflower?  Can I use red cabbage? Red
> Kale? for the red cauliflower? Should I use bibb or similar lettuce  
> for the cabbage lettuce?

http://www.photosnapper.com/web/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=725&si=HARD
has a lovely picture of a red cauliflower. Since broccoli and cauliflower
are related, I'd say something that tastes like brocolli leaves. I'd
advise a taste test (most cauliflower or fresh broccoli come with some
leaves attached)

toodles, margaret


Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:15:29 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Help with a sallat from Markham?
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

This might help.
http://culinaryhistoriansny.org/recipes/17_Century_Salads.pdf

It even includes photos and recipes. Oranges by the way could have
either sweet or seville/bitter by then. There's a picture showing
a citron, seville orange and a sweet orange in Besler, dating 1613.
They wouldn't have been navel oranges.

Johnnae


Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:53:15 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] philosophical salad question
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Helewyse's website has a number of menus posted from various
Italian sources.
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/yulefeast.html
salads appear as dinner fare on Dec 15th
Lettuce and borage flower salad, Salad of cooked chicory, Macaroni
salad, Cooked carrot salad, Salad of capers currants and sugar, Salad of
feet of kid.
I know that we went with Giacomo Castelvetro and Platina for the actual
salad recipes.

Johnnae

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:
> I've been doing a lot of salads lately for events and things. Mostly,
> because I don't think enough people experience a medieval-type salad
> often enough, and I think it's good to show them what it's like. I
> haven't done a lot of sops or boiled greens on toast, though.
>
> Since it's unclear how often salads were served, should I try to limit
> how often I make salad in the SCA?


Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:43:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 10, Issue 57
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Jadwiga wrote: Since it's unclear how often salads were served,  
should I try to limit how often I make salad in the SCA?

Depends?  Now for 16th century Italian food, salads turn up just  
about every dinner in the first course, along with such other foods  
not eaten in the north such as raw fruit.  They are listed in just  
about every dinner menu made from any number of interesting things.  
In addition there is a book

Archidipno overo dell'insalata e dell'vso di essa ... / da Saluatore Massonio ... In Venetia : appresso Marc'Antonio Brogiollo ..., 1627.

Which only talks about salads and it's free online at dioscoredes:
http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp? 
ref=B20397215&idioma=0

It talks about vinegar, oil, salt and why this is how a salad should  
be dressed, then talks about other dressing ingredients including:  
sapa, lemon and sour orange juice, pepper and garlic.  Then  
introduces each vegetable and herb that can be served in a salad, and  
how it is prepared for that salad.  It is more of a health manual  
than a cookbook so you have to wade through all the stuff plagiarized  
from worthy Latin sources to find the cooking information but is is  
there (usually in the form: and these are more healthful if roasted  
before serving cold, with a dressing of sour orange juice salt and  
olive oil).

Some vegetables covered:
Parsnips, ramps, beet root, cress, turnip, radishes, sprouts, fennel,  
asparagus, truffles, lettuce, endive, chicory, rocket, nasturtium,  
borage, lemon balm, beans, cauliflower, peas, squash, and a whole  
bunch of herbs.

So I say salad ahead, of course you'll need to start cooking 16th  
century Italian, but that's no bad thing:-)

Helewyse


Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:19:10 -0600
From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Boiled salad and High Table dishes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Nice! Say, can I get your recipes for the Boiled Salad?
> From my Laurel's Prize Tourney notes:

An Excellent Boiled Salad
Country Contentments or The English Huswife
By Gervaise Markham (1615)

To make an excellent compound boil'd Sallat: take of Spinage well  
washt two or three handfuls, and put it into faire water and boile it  
till it bee exceeding soft and tender as pappe; then put it into a  
Cullander and draine the water from it, which done, with the backside  
of your Chopping-knife chop it and bruise it as small as may bee:  
then put it into a Pipkin with a good lump of sweet butter and boile  
it over again; then take a good handfull of Currants cleane washt and  
put to it, and stirre them well together, then put to as much Vinegar  
as will make it reasonable tart, and then with sugar season it  
according to the taste of the Master of the house, and so serve it  
upon sippets.

Spinach was boiled soft and then drained. Then chopped with the back  
of a heavy chef's knife.

The greens were placed into one of the frying pans and a good lump of  
unsalted butter was added and stirred in.  The heat was brought up  
gradually until the juices began to lightly simmer.  When temperature  
was reached I added a good handful of golden raisins and let them  
cook until they began to release their sweet flavor.  Red wine  
vinegar was then added to taste.

The slowly increasing temperature was because I cooked it in a period  
earthenware skillet.

> Olwen
Gunthar


Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:41:59 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vegetables and are you all still there?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

By salad do you mean leafy greens?

De Honesta has lots of salads and variations. Check out Book III,  
Entry 31 (Lettuce and Rocket Salad), Book IV, Entry 2 (Plain Lettuce  
Salad and a variation which includes mint and parsley),  Book IV,  
entry 5 has a salad with many herbs (Lettuce, borage, mint, calamint,  
fennel, parsley, wild thyme, marjoram, chervil, lambs tongue,  
nightshade, fennel flowers and other "oderiferis herbis" (aromatic  
herbs).

There are quite a few more salads and also several cooked greens  
which you may or may not consider a salad.

Eduardo


Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:15:09 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salats was Vegetables and are you all still
	there?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Take a look at
*Salads served in 16th century Italy, it's not just lettuce*
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/salads.html

This is the handout or outline for Baroness Helewyse's Pennsic 36 class, 
a review of the many salads offered by Scappi in his meals and some 
research on how to put the salads together in a manner appropriate for 
16th century Italy. It isn't just about lettuce.

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:18:33 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salad recipes was English Food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Barbara Benson wrote:
<<< By Great salads do you mean a really, really good salad or is a Great
Salad a specific dish? I have a load of large platters - if you have
any specific recipe in mind I would love to see it. >>>

http://www.culinaryhistoriansny.org/files/Recipes/Recipe_17_Century_Salads.pdf
Seventeenth Century English Salads
by Cathy K. Kaufman

That will get you started for the great salat recipes. There ought to be SCA pictures someplace. 

Johnnae


Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:22:56 +0100
From: " Ana Vald?s " <agora158 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period finger/party foods
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I was in Damascus ten days and ate traditional food every day. Many of their
salads were definitely period, no tomatoes or potatoes or sweet corn.
Lettuce or a form of lettuce, cucumber, "nanah" (a kind of mynth), "maramia"
(another kind or related to mynth), and radish. Eaten med fingers, not oil
or vinegar on it. (Rather tasteless for me, used to Italian or Spanish oil,
salt and peppar, but :(
Ana

On Jan 20, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Nancy Kiel <nancy_kiel at hotmail.com>
wrote:
 << Vegetables are a challenge, since today we usually serve them raw and in period they were cooked. >>

They were not always cooked in period.  I've mentioned before that the
"Arte de Cortar" (Spanish carving manual, 1432) has instructions for
cutting carrots and parsnips to be served raw.  Carrot sticks are
period for noble (even royal) feasts.  Small, tender turnips.  Slices
of radish sprinked with salt to mitigate their cold, moist humor.

I'll leave aside the matter of salads, since we're discussing finger
foods.


Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:19:14 -0500
From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Portable Lunch Foods
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Kingstaste <kingstaste at comcast.net> wrote:
<<< Your onion, cucumber and basil salad sounds good, what is the dressing on that? >>>

Cucumber & Onion Salad
Archidipno overo dell'insalata e dell'vso di essa, from Massonio
(Listed as a Salad by Scappi) Translation by Louise Smithson
	In order that cucumbers more easily pass the stomach eat them with
the peel rather than without.  Cut the cucumber in half lengthwise and
make of them pieces moderately thin and dress them with oil, vinegar
and salt like other salads.  But the custom one has learned is to add
several pieces of raw onion and the leaves or sprouts of green basil.
This is not without foundation in art, perhaps it counteracts the
natural coldness of moisture of it and makes the juice less large and
less slow

Single Recipe, serves 12:
1 1/2 - Cucumbers (European seedless)
1 - Onion
6 T - Olive Oil
2 T - Vinegar, White Wine
1 3/4 t - Salt
16 grinds - Pepper, fresh
2 1/2 t - Basil, Finely chopped	

	Cut cucumber in half lengthwise and then slice in 1/8 in slices. Cut
onion in half and slice on Mandolin very thin. Combine Olive Oil,
Vinegar, Salt, Pepper and Basil. Keep separate until approximately 1
hour before service. Add dressing to vegetables and mix well. Allow to
sit in cold place for between 1 and 2 hours ? no longer.

I see I noted in my directions the amount of time that you can allow
to marinate. The marination is important - but I think tossing it in
everything except the salt and then salting it when you open up your
Tiffin might work. The big issue is the salt drawing too much water
out of the veggies and making it watery. When it is time to eat if you
add the salt first thing and then let it sit until the end of your
meal it should be tasty. If that is too much of a pain in the tuckus
then I know that people took leftovers home after the feast and still
liked it - so sitting for several hours shouldn't really hurt it.

Here is another Salad:
Radish Salad
Ein New Kochbuch. Marx Rumpolt. 1581, Transcribed by Dr. Thomas
Gloning; Translated by Gwen Catrin von Berlin.

45. Oder nim ein Rettich/ schneidt in klein und duenn/ oder fein
Wirflicht/ mach in mit Essig/ Oel und Salz ab/ so ist es auch gut.
45. Or take a radish/ cut in small and thin/ or fine diced/ season it
with vinegar/ oil and salt/ so it is good too
	
1/2 lb Radish
1/2 C Apple Cider Vinegar
1 T Olive Oil
1/2 t Salt

Chop radish into small cubes. Add other ingredients. Allow to sit
sealed in refrigerator for up to several hours.

If you like cold or room temp beans - this might go well (you could
sub olive oil for the butter):
Herbed Beans
Ein New Kochbuch. Marx Rumpolt. 1581, Transcribed by Dr. Thomas
Gloning; Translated by Gwen Catrin von Berlin.

30. Nim? Bonen/ quell sie in einem Wasser/ vnd zeuch die H?eutlein
davon hinweg/ machs eyn mit Erbeszbr?eh vnd guter frischer Butter/
auch gr?enen wolschmeckenden Kr?eutern/ die klein gehackt seyn/ lasz
damit auffsieden/ vnd versaltz es nicht/ so werden sie gut vnd
wolgeschmack.
30. Take beans/ poach them in a water/ and pull the skins off make
them with a peabroth and good fresh butter/ also green welltasting
herbs/ that are chopped small/ let simmer therewith and do not
oversalt it/ so they will be good and welltasting.
	
1/2 lb - Dried Black Eyed Peas
3 C - Vegetable Broth
4 T - Butter
2 T - Fresh Parsley
1 1/2 t - Fresh Thyme
1 1/2 t - Fresh Marjoram
1 1/2 t - Fresh Tarragon
1/2 t - Salt
1/2 t - Pepper

Soften peas. Add softened peas to veggie broth with butter, herbs and
spices. Cook uncovered on a vigorous boil. When most of the liquid has
been absorbed, reduce heat. Takes about 45 min to an hour.

Depending on your camps' stance on olives, Epitrium is usually a big
hit and could be made ahead of time at home (the longer it sits the
better it gets). For those who do the starch and dairy, eating it with
bread and some fresh cheese is very period.
--
Serena da Riva


Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] A Sallet of all Kinds of Hearbes and Cucumbers

Here is a period recipe that I have recently redacted.  It has been published already in my barony's newsletter.  I thought I would share it with everyone else.

Huette

A Sallet of all Kinds of Hearbes and Cucumbers
From Thomas Dawson, The good huswifes Jewell, 1587.

Take your hearbes and picke them very fine into faire water, and wash them all clean, and swing them in a strainer, and when you put them in a dish, mingle them with Cowcumbers or Lemmans payred and sliced, and scrape Sugar, and put in Vinegar and Oyle and hard Egges boyled and laid about the dish and upon the Sallet.

For the dressing:

1 tbsp sugar, either white or brown
6 tbsp olive oil
2 tbsp white wine vinegar

Mix together in a bowl and set aside.

For the salad:

1 package, mixed salad greens/lettuce
1 bunch flat-leafed parsley, stemmed
1 bunch fresh basil, stemmed
1 bunch fresh chives, chopped
1 bunch fresh tarragon, stemmed [approximately 1/2 cup]
3 tbsp fresh chervil leaves
1 medium-sized cucumber, peeled and chopped coarsely
3 hard boiled eggs, peeled and cut into wedges.

Wash all greens and herbs. Place into a medium sized muslin draw-string bag and spin the bag until most of the moisture has been removed. [This is an early form of a salad spinner.] Place the greens in a salad bowl and add the cucumbers. Pour on the dressing and toss to mix. Just before serving, add the hard-boiled egg wedges decoratively on top and serve it forth.

Notes:

Olive oil: I just used regular, but any kind you like on a salad would be fine. The recipe said only oil, not even olive oil, but I used my preference of olive oil. I suppose that sesame or almond oil could be okay also, but I don't think of those as salad oils. The vagueness of this recipe I find challenging and exciting. I could make it so many different ways and, as long as I use period ingredients known to that country and era, I am within the parameters of the recipe.

Sugar: Again, whatever you prefer. I used regular white sugar, but I thought that a light or golden brown sugar would be fine also. Elizabethans had both. I suppose that raw sugar could be used if you don't mind the added expense. All have slightly different tastes, but all are within period usage.

Flat-leaf parsley is also called Italian parsley.

Cucumber: A personal choice, whatever you have or like. I would assume that English would be closer to what Thomas Dawson used, but hot house would be fine also. Just consider the size of the cucumber and make adjustments.

Tarragon: with no measurements, it is a personal choice. You could leave this out and still be fine. I checked other recipes in the book and picked herbs that were used fresh.

Eggs:  I used AA large. It is mostly for decoration. From discussions that I have read, period eggs were smaller than ours are, but then whatever you like is fine.

I picked this recipe because of it is so non-specific. It does not even tell you what herbs to use. To me this is a kind of a "what's fresh and what do I want to do with this?" kind of recipe. You can make it in hundreds of different ways and keep coming up with different mixes and flavors. The last time I served it, I used the Moroccan Preserved Lemon, but most people didn't like it. It is expensive to buy, so I left it out of this recipe, but YMMV. I know very few modern people who would eat fresh lemons sliced in a salad. Meyer Lemons, which are modern, and the sweet lemon was not known in Europe, although India and China knew of it. This is one of the few specifics mentioned, but it is cucumbers OR lemons. For me cucumbers won out.


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 19:56:54 -0400
From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Marinated cucumber/onion recipe

I am probably too late for Sunday, but here is a very late Italian
recipe of mine:

Cucumber & Onion Salad
Archidipno overo dell'insalata e dell'vso di essa, Massonio
Translation by Louise Smithson
	In order that cucumbers more easily pass the stomach eat them with
the peel rather than without.  Cut the cucumber in half lengthwise and
make of them pieces moderately thin and dress them with oil, vinegar
and salt like other salads.  But the custom one has learned is to add
several pieces of raw onion and the leaves or sprouts of green basil.
This is not without foundation in art, perhaps it counteracts the
natural coldness of moisture of it and makes the juice less large and
less slow

Single Recipe, serves 12:	
	1 1/2 Cucumbers (English)	
	1 Onion
	6 T Olive Oil
	2 T Vinegar, White Wine
	1 3/4 t Salt	
	16 grinds	Pepper, fresh
	2 1/2 t Basil, Finely chopped	

	Cut cucumber in half lengthwise and then slice in 1/8 in slices. Cut
onion in half and slice on Mandolin very thin. Combine Olive Oil,
Vinegar, Salt, Pepper and Basil. Keep separate until approximately 1
hour before service. Add dressing to vegetables and mix well. Allow to
sit in cold place for between 1 and 2 hours ? no longer.

It is pretty darn tasty if I do say so myself. You can get away
without cutting the cucumber in 1/2 if you want to.
--
Serena da Riva

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Amy Cooper <amy.s.cooper at gmail.com> wrote:
<<< I know I've had, and have seen, a recipe for marinated cucumbers and
onions in an SCA context. 
I'm thinking a salad like that would be just
perfect for an A&S/Armouring/Fighting/BBQ day we're going to on
Sunday. Ilsebet >>>


Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:28:49 -0400
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salad Course in Henry VIII Menu

This appeared in a Twitter link from one of the Hampton Court Cooks.  I 
thought some of you might like the documentation for the "entre de la 
table" - sort of the "appetizer".  Sure wasn't honey butter!
^^^^^^^^^^^^
So, apart from turning readable material into unreadable scrawl, the day 
at the BL [Alys: British Library] was a great success....still loads to 
read through and more trips needed to look through the books I had today 
(not to mention all the others on my list!) but there are only so many 
hours in a day.

Big thing for today as far as food goes was finding a few menus that I'd 
not come across before. They were in:
The Manuscript of William Dunche, being the Book of the new Ordinary of 
the King's Most Honourable Household, anno 31 Henry VIII. Transcripts 
edited with notes by A. G. W. Murray, M.A., and Eustace F. Bosanquet. 
(Reprinted from the Genealogist, N.S., vol. XXIX. and XXX.).

Which is a different version of the household ordinances for Henry 
VIII's court from those printed by the Society of Antiquaries in 1790. 
They didn't bother to transcribe pages that they thought were pretty 
much the same between the two versions, which includes most of the food 
lists, or indeed were subjects that they felt weren't interesting... 
which includes the 20 menus in the original MS, they transcribed 4 of 
which I had time to copy 1 down (below). Next trip up there I'll copy 
the rest and eventually when time allows I'd like to see the original MS 
if I can to look through that, but for the moment this "modern" (1914) 
transcription will suffice.
What stands out from this menu, and one of the other is the salad 
course....the "entre de la table" in this case and the "salat cours" in 
the other.....lots to think about really!

So, here is the menu:

"A fare for a soup[er] for the king, the quene and divse lordes and 
ladies sitting wt ther highnessis in the gardene at his mannor of 
westm[inster] the iijd day of june the xxiiijth yere of the ragne of 
king henry viijth.

la entre de la table

boild borage
cabege lectues rawe
capres
olives
cabege lectues boiled
Lymmaundis dised

The first cours

chekyns in criteney
pestelles of venyson stoped wt cloves
side of venyson forced
capons of grece
pike boiled
a Rose garnysshed
tonge in Rug galentyne
doulcetts
ix frittour napken

The second cours

cawdell ferrey Ruge
herons
ffesauntes
Runner
bremes boiled
godwits
capn chopped
chekins in chawdell
red dere in past larded
a closse bakemeat
cremetories
xj Egis in the moon shyne

The third cours

blaunc maunge
storc
brewes
chekins farcied
quailes
ffreshe sturgin
petite pernelt
pies of Paris
bake kide
pepyns in past
tarte
xj ffrutor crispe

The iiijth cours

jely garnysshed
scraped chese wt sugar
pepyns wt pistarde
Orange conserved
Pepyns conserved
march payne
Waffers and Jpocras"

Although I have copied this as it is in the book, I suspect the original 
transcription was slightly modernised for some spelling as there is no 
u/v substitution as I would expect to see.
^^^^^^^^^

Alys K.

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	salads-msg	Page 2 of 78