pies-msg - 9/6/09 ਀ഊGeneral comments on period fruit and meat pies. Baking pies. Pie crusts. ਀ഊNOTE: See also the files: meat-pies-msg, tarts-msg, dough-contain-msg, fruits-msg, apples-msg, fruit-pears-msg, fruit-quinces-msg, pastries-msg, fruit-pies-msg, fish-pies-msg. ਀ഊ************************************************************************ ਀一伀吀䤀䌀䔀 ⴀഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀攀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀洀瀀甀琀攀爀 渀攀琀眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 搀愀琀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 ㄀㤀㠀㤀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 愀猀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀椀氀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 攀搀椀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀 眀椀琀栀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀 眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀瀀氀椀琀 椀渀琀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 攀砀琀爀愀渀攀漀甀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀 䤀䐀猀 眀攀爀攀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 猀愀瘀攀 猀瀀愀挀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 挀氀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀瀀漀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀 洀愀欀攀 渀漀 挀氀愀椀洀猀 愀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀甀爀愀挀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 最椀瘀攀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 愀甀琀栀漀爀猀⸀ഊ ਀倀氀攀愀猀攀 爀攀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀 愀渀搀 攀昀昀漀爀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀琀甀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 椀猀 甀渀挀氀攀愀爀 愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 䤀昀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 最椀瘀攀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀漀爀⠀猀⤀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀愀渀欀 礀漀甀Ⰰഊ Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous ਀                                          匀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ************************************************************************ ਀ഊFrom: "Sue Wensel" ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㘀 䄀瀀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㄀　㨀　㔀㨀　㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊSubject: Re: SC - SC: Viking's Pies & Feast Themes ਀ഊ> Now that I have some idea of what pies I can make in persona, does anyone ਀㸀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 愀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀㼀  䄀氀氀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀猀 䤀 最漀琀 栀愀渀搀攀搀 搀漀眀渀ഊ> are definitly modern, and the libraries around here seem not to have much of ਀㸀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 昀爀漀洀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 琀栀攀 ㄀㠀　　✀猀 甀渀氀攀猀猀 椀琀 椀猀 愀 戀爀漀愀搀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 琀攀砀琀⸀ഊ ਀匀椀洀瀀氀攀 爀攀搀愀挀琀椀漀渀 昀爀漀洀 䴀愀爀欀栀愀洀 ⠀洀礀 昀愀瘀漀爀椀琀攀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 ⴀⴀ 栀攀✀猀 猀漀 攀愀猀礀℀℀⤀ ⴀⴀഊWarning -- I tend to work in quantity: ਀ഊ5 lbs of white flour ਀㄀ 琀攀愀猀瀀漀漀渀 漀昀 猀愀氀琀ഊ1 lb of butter ਀圀愀琀攀爀ഊ ਀䴀椀砀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀 猀愀氀琀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀⸀  䌀甀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 ⠀琀栀椀猀 椀猀 愀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 洀攀愀琀ഊ coffins -- use more butter for fruit); this much butter won't create the ਀氀椀琀琀氀攀 搀漀甀最栀 戀愀氀氀猀⸀  ഊ ਀匀氀漀眀氀礀 洀椀砀 椀渀 爀漀漀洀 琀攀洀瀀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀 眀愀琀攀爀⸀  䤀 眀漀爀欀 戀礀 琀漀甀挀栀 猀漀 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀礀ഊidea how much I add; the amount changes with the ambient humidity. The dough ਀椀猀 搀漀渀攀 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 猀琀椀挀欀猀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀猀 渀漀琀 挀氀愀洀洀礀⸀  䤀琀 栀愀猀 愀 渀椀挀攀 瀀氀愀礀ⴀ搀漀甀最栀礀ഊtexture. ਀ഊI prefer to use a pastry knife to cut in the butter and mix the early ਀愀搀搀椀琀椀漀渀猀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀⸀  吀栀攀渀 䤀 琀愀欀攀 漀昀昀 洀礀 爀椀渀最猀 愀渀搀 最攀琀 洀礀 栀愀渀搀猀 洀攀猀猀礀⸀  㨀ⴀ⤀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀椀氀氀 洀愀欀攀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 ㄀　 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀猀Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 栀漀眀 琀栀椀渀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀ഊthem. For meat pies, a 1/4 inch thick is good. ਀ഊDerdriu ਀猀眀攀渀猀攀氀 愀琀 戀爀愀渀搀攀最攀攀⸀氀洀⸀挀漀洀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:14:27 -0400 (EDT) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䬀椀洀椀戀㈀ 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: Re: SC - pie beans? ਀ഊ<< What are *pie beans*? Are these some kind of special ਀ 㸀 猀礀渀琀栀攀琀椀挀 戀攀愀渀ⴀ氀椀欀攀 椀琀攀洀 洀愀搀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀椀猀 瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀㼀 ഊ > Or do you mean just use a pile of uncooked beans? >> ਀ഊI use this method all the time!!! Finally, somthing I know about! You put a ਀氀愀礀攀爀 漀昀 眀愀砀 瀀愀瀀攀爀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀Ⰰ 挀漀瘀攀爀 眀椀琀栀 甀渀挀漀漀欀攀搀 戀攀愀渀猀 漀爀 爀椀挀攀⸀ 夀漀甀ഊcan save these for later useage, just don't cook them to eat! (yuck!) ਀ഊkimib2 ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ 㐀 䴀愀礀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㈀㄀㨀㐀㘀㨀㈀㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀椀渀最 戀爀攀愀搀 挀漀昀昀礀渀猀ഊ ਀㸀 ㈀⸀ 䴀椀砀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀愀氀琀⸀ 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 眀栀礀 琀栀攀 猀愀氀琀 ⴀ 洀礀ഊ> mum told me. Roll and line dish for bottom, keep some for the top. Beware ਀㸀 漀昀 猀栀爀椀渀欀愀最攀⸀⸀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䌀栀愀爀氀攀猀 刀愀最渀愀爀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 猀愀氀琀 栀攀氀瀀猀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀攀渀搀攀爀 ⠀愀猀 愀 最攀渀琀氀攀 氀愀搀礀 爀攀洀椀渀搀攀搀 洀攀 琀栀攀 氀愀猀琀ഊtime I commented on one of my pie shell experiments). A little salt ਀瀀爀漀瘀椀搀攀猀 猀漀洀攀 爀椀猀攀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:08:44 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Researching bread coffyns ਀ഊ> I am researching great pies and all of the recipes that I can find for ਀㸀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀猀 搀漀 渀漀琀 猀琀愀琀攀 栀漀眀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 洀愀搀攀⸀  䔀瘀攀渀 眀漀爀猀攀Ⰰ 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀ഊ> find anything of the type anywhere. Does anyone have any suggestions? ਀㸀 䰀䰀䔀圀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀渀 攀砀挀攀氀氀攀渀琀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀 戀礀 䰀愀搀礀 䄀漀椀昀攀 椀渀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀ഊFlorilegium, which can be found at: ਀ഊhttp://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/rialto.html ਀  嬀渀攀眀 愀搀搀爀攀猀猀 ⴀ 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最 ⴀ匀琀攀昀愀渀崀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 眀愀猀 洀漀爀攀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 愀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 搀漀甀最栀 漀昀 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀 眀椀琀栀ഊpossibly some salt or lard or both mixed in. In general, bread doughs would ਀戀攀 琀漀漀 猀漀昀琀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 昀漀挀愀挀挀椀愀 搀漀甀最栀 挀漀甀氀搀 攀愀猀椀氀礀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀ഊsmall filled breads. ਀ഊMarkham's The English Hous-wife (1615) gives the following recipe: ਀ഊOf the Mixture of Paste . . . Your course Wheat-crust should be kneaded with ਀栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 漀爀 䴀甀琀琀漀渀 戀爀漀琀栀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 最漀漀搀 猀琀漀爀攀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀攀 洀愀搀攀ഊstiffe and tough, because the Coffin must be deep. ਀ഊThe Good Huswifes Handmaid (1588) provides: ਀ഊTo make Paste another Way Take butter and ale, and seeth them together; ਀琀栀攀渀 琀愀欀攀 礀漀甀爀 昀氀漀眀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀爀攀攀 攀最猀Ⰰ 猀愀昀昀爀漀渀 愀渀搀 猀愀氀琀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀猀攀 琀眀漀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀攀愀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀愀礀 渀漀琀 戀攀 椀渀 愀渀礀ഊway similar to the pastry for most medieval pies. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 　㜀㨀　㔀㨀㔀㐀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong) ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 吀愀爀琀礀猀 椀渀 䄀瀀瀀氀椀猀ⴀ一䔀圀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀ⴀ攀渀樀漀礀ഊ ਀吀礀爀挀愀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>Very interesting, Ras, and it brings up a question that I have had for ਀㸀猀漀洀攀 琀椀洀攀Ⰰ 愀戀漀甀琀 洀椀渀挀攀洀攀愀琀⸀  䤀 最爀攀眀 甀瀀 眀椀琀栀 洀椀渀挀攀洀攀愀琀 瀀椀攀猀 昀漀爀ഊ>Christmas as something with _meat_ in them. My mother usually used ਀㸀氀攀昀琀漀瘀攀爀 爀漀愀猀琀 戀攀攀昀 漀爀 瘀攀渀椀猀漀渀Ⰰ 瀀甀琀 椀琀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 愀 栀愀渀搀 最爀椀渀搀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊ>added the apples and raisins, and canned the filling to use for the ਀㸀栀漀氀椀搀愀礀猀⸀  䤀琀 椀猀 洀礀 昀愀琀栀攀爀✀猀 昀愀瘀漀爀椀琀攀⸀  䄀猀 䤀 最爀攀眀 漀氀搀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀攀渀琀 洀漀爀攀ഊ>out into the world, I discovered that other people I talked to had ਀㸀渀攀瘀攀爀 栀攀愀爀搀 漀昀 洀攀愀琀 椀渀 洀椀渀挀攀 瀀椀攀猀⸀  吀栀攀礀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 䤀 眀愀猀 挀爀愀稀礀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀䐀椀搀 琀栀攀礀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 甀猀攀 洀攀愀琀 椀渀 洀椀渀挀攀洀攀愀琀 瀀椀攀猀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀㼀  伀爀 椀猀 洀礀 昀愀洀椀氀礀ഊ>just an abberation? Any recipes? Anyone? ਀ഊFruit in medieval meat pies was a very common occurance. ਀ഊActually, until the second half of the fifteenth century recipes for meat ਀瀀椀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 昀爀甀椀琀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 戀攀 洀甀挀栀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀愀渀 昀漀爀 昀爀甀椀琀 瀀椀攀猀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀ഊmeat. Many meat pies were baked in a heavy flour and water crust that ਀猀攀爀瘀攀搀 洀漀猀琀氀礀 愀猀 愀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀攀爀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀 愀渀搀 挀漀甀氀搀 猀琀愀渀搀 甀瀀 甀渀搀攀爀ഊlong cooking times. Some writer's have claimed that the innovation of a ਀氀椀最栀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 洀漀爀攀 攀搀椀戀氀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 愀渀搀 猀甀最最攀猀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀椀猀 渀攀眀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀ഊmade the fruit pies (which needed shorter cooking times) much more popular. ਀ഊThis is all supposition on the part of the historians so I set out to see ਀椀昀 䤀 挀漀甀氀搀 瘀攀爀椀昀礀 椀琀 戀礀 猀挀愀渀渀椀渀最 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀 昀漀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀ഊfruit pies that did not include meat. Out of about twenty English, French ਀愀渀搀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 ㄀㐀琀栀 琀漀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 漀渀攀 瀀攀爀挀攀渀琀 漀爀 昀攀眀攀爀ഊrecipes were for fruit pies in the earlier two centuries while twelve ਀瀀攀爀挀攀渀琀 漀昀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 昀漀爀 昀爀甀椀琀 漀渀氀礀 瀀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀猀攀 愀爀攀 椀洀瀀攀爀昀攀挀琀 猀琀愀琀椀猀琀椀挀猀 猀椀渀挀攀 洀漀猀琀 漀昀 洀礀 ㄀㘀琀栀 䌀⸀ 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀ഊ- - so it might be a regional fad. ਀ഊValoise ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㄀　 一漀瘀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㈀㈀㨀㐀㘀㨀㔀㜀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Laura C Minnick ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䈀爀攀愀搀 匀漀甀瀀 䈀漀眀氀猀ഊ ਀伀渀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 一漀瘀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀Ⰰ 匀琀攀昀愀渀 氀椀 刀漀甀猀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ ਀㸀 圀栀愀琀 搀椀搀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 昀漀氀欀 搀漀 昀漀爀 昀漀漀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 最漀㼀 䐀椀搀 琀栀攀礀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 猀椀琀 搀漀眀渀 琀漀ഊ> eat? We can't seem to find proof of sandwiches or breadbowls or flatbreads ਀㸀 眀椀琀栀 洀攀愀琀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀洀 ⠀猀甀挀栀 愀猀 䜀爀攀攀欀 䜀礀爀漀猀 漀爀 琀漀爀琀椀氀氀愀猀⤀⸀ഊ ਀匀琀攀昀愀渀Ⰰഊ ਀        䤀渀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 漀昀 洀礀 ✀瀀爀攀琀琀礀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀 戀漀漀欀猀✀ 愀爀攀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 漀昀 眀栀愀琀 椀猀ഊgenerally labeled (if at all) as a '14thc. ivory carving'- a triptyc with ਀愀 猀挀攀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䴀愀搀漀渀渀愀 愀渀搀 䌀栀椀氀搀 愀渀搀 眀漀爀猀栀椀瀀瀀椀渀最 愀渀最攀氀猀 戀攀氀漀眀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀戀漀瘀攀 愀ഊtournament with jousting and ladies in the gallery. In one area, there is ਀琀眀漀 洀攀渀 愀渀搀 愀 眀漀洀愀渀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 漀瘀攀爀 愀 挀爀攀渀攀氀氀愀琀攀搀 攀搀最攀 愀琀 琀栀攀 猀挀攀渀攀 戀攀氀漀眀Ⰰഊand one of the men is holding in his hand what I can only describe as a ਀䠀漀猀琀攀猀猀 䘀爀甀椀琀 倀椀攀ⴀ 礀漀甀 欀渀漀眀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 栀愀氀昀ⴀ洀漀漀渀 猀栀愀瀀攀Ⰰ 昀椀氀氀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 挀爀椀洀瀀攀搀ഊalong the rounded edge. Given the particular contortions his face is in, ਀椀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 愀猀 琀栀漀甀最栀 栀攀✀猀 攀愀琀椀渀最Ⰰ 猀漀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 最愀琀栀攀爀 栀攀✀猀 渀椀戀戀氀椀渀最 漀渀 栀椀猀ഊpie. What might be in the pie, I don't know. It could be what we call a ਀✀䐀愀爀椀漀氀攀✀Ⰰ 漀爀 椀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 栀攀 眀攀渀琀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 搀爀椀瘀攀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀漀挀愀氀ഊGolden Arches on the way to the tourney and picked up one of those pyes ਀眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 琀漀漀ⴀ栀漀琀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最⸀ 圀栀愀琀攀瘀攀爀ⴀ 椀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 氀椀欀攀 昀漀漀搀 琀漀漀 洀攀⸀ 䤀 挀愀渀 氀漀漀欀ഊfor a reference on the triptyc if you are desperate to see it. ਀ഊ'Lainie ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 一漀瘀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 　㈀㨀㈀㔀㨀㐀㘀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Laura C Minnick ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䈀爀攀愀搀 䈀漀眀氀 䔀焀椀瘀愀氀攀渀琀猀ഊ ਀伀渀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 一漀瘀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀Ⰰ 䰀夀一 䴀 倀䄀刀䬀䤀一匀伀一 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Since I've got the recipes, I am desparate to see the illustration! Be ਀㸀 渀椀挀攀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 瘀椀猀甀愀氀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 椀昀 礀漀甀✀搀 戀攀 猀漀 欀椀渀搀Ⰰ ✀䰀愀椀渀椀攀⸀ഊ ਀䤀✀氀氀 琀爀礀⸀ 䤀 眀攀渀琀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 洀礀 猀栀攀氀昀 愀渀搀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 漀渀攀ഊ(the triptyc) was not there- probably loaned out. But I found a picture ਀漀昀 愀 渀攀愀爀氀礀 椀搀攀渀琀椀挀愀氀 椀瘀漀爀礀 椀渀 愀渀 漀氀搀 吀椀洀攀ⴀ䰀椀昀攀 戀漀漀欀Ⰰ 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀愀氀氀礀 开䄀最攀 漀昀ഊFaith_ by Anne Fremantle (Time Incorporated, New York, 1965). On pages ਀㄀　㠀ⴀ㤀 椀猀 琀栀攀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 椀瘀漀爀礀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 樀漀甀猀琀 愀✀瀀氀愀椀猀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀ഊgallery,etc. In the upper right corner is the guy with something in his ਀栀愀渀搀⸀ 䤀琀 猀琀椀氀氀 氀漀漀欀猀 氀椀欀攀 愀 瀀椀攀 漀昀 猀漀洀攀 猀漀爀琀 琀漀 洀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀 椀猀 渀漀琀 愀猀 挀氀攀愀爀ഊas the other ivory. If I have time in the next couple of days I'll go to ਀琀栀攀 愀爀琀 氀椀戀爀愀爀礀 愀渀搀 猀攀攀 椀昀 䤀 挀愀渀 氀漀挀愀琀攀 琀栀攀 琀爀椀瀀琀礀挀⸀ഊ ਀✀䰀愀椀渀椀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:24:15 -0700 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 瘀愀爀洀猀琀爀漀 愀琀 稀椀瀀挀漀渀⸀渀攀琀 ⠀嘀愀氀漀椀猀攀 䄀爀洀猀琀爀漀渀最⤀ഊSubject: SC - Hot water pie crust ਀ഊHas anyone (Bear, for instance?) tried the hot water method for making pie ਀挀爀甀猀琀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 椀渀 匀愀戀椀渀愀 圀攀氀猀攀爀椀渀㼀 匀栀攀✀猀 最漀琀 琀眀漀 欀椀渀搀猀 漀昀 琀攀渀搀攀爀 挀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰഊone that uses eggs and at least a couple of mentions of crust that starts ਀戀礀 搀椀猀猀漀氀瘀椀渀最 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 椀渀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最 眀愀琀攀爀⸀ 吀栀愀琀 最漀攀猀 愀最愀椀渀猀琀 攀瘀攀爀礀琀栀椀渀最 洀礀ഊmother (best pie baker in the world) taught me. ਀ഊBut yesterday I decided to give it a try. I dissolved 3/4 cup of shortening ਀⠀渀攀砀琀 琀椀洀攀 䤀✀氀氀 琀爀礀 氀愀爀搀⤀ 椀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀⼀㈀ 挀甀瀀 漀昀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 猀琀椀爀爀攀搀 椀琀ഊuntil it was thoroughly mixed and then added flour. It took about 2 cups of ਀昀氀漀甀爀 琀漀 最攀琀 琀栀攀 爀椀最栀琀 挀漀渀猀椀猀琀攀渀挀礀⸀ 䤀 氀攀琀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 挀栀椀氀氀 昀漀爀 愀 昀攀眀 栀漀甀爀猀⸀ഊAfter warming it up to room temperature, it handled just fine, rolled out ਀焀甀椀琀攀 攀愀猀椀氀礀⸀ 吀栀攀 昀椀渀椀猀栀攀搀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀 眀愀猀 焀甀椀琀攀 琀攀渀搀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀嘀愀氀漀椀猀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 14:14:36 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 倀栀椀氀椀瀀 ☀ 匀甀猀愀渀 吀爀漀礀 㰀琀爀漀礀 愀琀 愀猀愀渀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Hot water pie crust ਀ഊValoise Armstrong wrote: ਀㸀 䠀愀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 ⠀䈀攀愀爀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀㼀⤀ 琀爀椀攀搀 琀栀攀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 洀攀琀栀漀搀 昀漀爀 洀愀欀椀渀最 瀀椀攀ഊ> crust mentioned in Sabina Welserin? She's got two kinds of tender crusts, ਀㸀 漀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 甀猀攀猀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀猀 漀昀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 猀琀愀爀琀猀ഊ> by dissolving the fat in boiling water. That goes against everything my ਀㸀 洀漀琀栀攀爀 ⠀戀攀猀琀 瀀椀攀 戀愀欀攀爀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀⤀ 琀愀甀最栀琀 洀攀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 愀最爀攀攀Ⰰ 椀琀✀猀 渀漀琀 愀渀礀眀栀攀爀攀 渀攀愀爀 琀栀攀 琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀愀氀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 眀椀猀搀漀洀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀ഊarea; _MY_ mother, (best pie maker in the world, with myself a humble ਀挀氀漀猀攀 猀攀挀漀渀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 渀漀琀 愀爀爀漀最愀渀琀 愀戀漀甀琀 椀琀 㬀  ⤀   ⤀ 愀氀猀漀 渀攀瘀攀爀ഊused this method AFAIK. There's a bazillion types of pastry out there, ਀愀渀搀 洀漀猀琀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀猀 氀攀愀爀渀 漀渀氀礀 愀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 琀礀瀀椀挀愀氀 猀栀漀爀琀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀ 䄀 最漀漀搀 栀漀琀ഊwater crust comes out something like a cookie texture when done right. ਀ഊ> But yesterday I decided to give it a try. I dissoved 3/4 cup of shortening ਀㸀 ⠀渀攀砀琀 琀椀洀攀 䤀✀氀氀 琀爀礀 氀愀爀搀⤀ 椀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀⼀㈀ 挀甀瀀 漀昀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 猀琀椀爀爀攀搀 椀琀ഊ> until it was thoroughly mixed and then added flour. It took about 2 cups of ਀㸀 昀氀漀甀爀 琀漀 最攀琀 琀栀攀 爀椀最栀琀 挀漀渀猀椀猀琀攀渀挀礀⸀ 䤀 氀攀琀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 挀栀椀氀氀 昀漀爀 愀 昀攀眀 栀漀甀爀猀⸀ഊ> After warming it up to room temperature, it handled just fine, rolled out ਀㸀 焀甀椀琀攀 攀愀猀椀氀礀⸀ 吀栀攀 昀椀渀椀猀栀攀搀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀 眀愀猀 焀甀椀琀攀 琀攀渀搀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀圀椀琀栀 愀氀氀 琀栀愀琀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最Ⰰ 椀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀氀猀漀 琀栀攀 栀攀愀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀ഊbe a factor (cooked glutein and glutenin don't form strands). I might ਀猀甀最最攀猀琀 礀漀甀 琀爀礀 渀漀琀 戀攀椀渀最 琀漀漀 挀愀爀攀昀甀氀 愀戀漀甀琀 猀琀椀爀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀ഊtogether, as that will allow the mixture to cool off a bit just when you ਀渀攀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 栀攀愀琀⸀ഊ ਀䤀✀洀 挀甀爀椀漀甀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 漀渀攀 琀栀椀渀最Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀⸀⸀⸀眀栀愀琀 䤀 眀愀猀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 琀愀甀最栀琀 愀戀漀甀琀ഊthis pastry was to simply make it by mixing the ingredients, stirring ਀甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀 昀漀爀洀猀 愀 戀愀氀氀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀漀 欀渀攀愀搀 椀琀 瘀攀爀礀 戀爀椀攀昀氀礀 愀猀 猀漀漀渀 愀猀 椀琀✀猀ഊcool enough to handle. What I'd always been taught to do, and have ਀愀氀眀愀礀猀 搀漀渀攀Ⰰ 眀愀猀 琀漀 昀漀爀洀 洀礀 ∀挀漀昀昀椀渀∀ 眀栀椀氀攀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 眀愀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 眀愀爀洀 愀渀搀ഊat its most flexible, rather than to chill it, then warm it up again. My ਀攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 琀栀愀琀 爀漀漀洀 琀攀洀瀀 椀猀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 琀漀漀 挀漀氀搀 琀漀 眀漀爀欀 琀栀攀 猀琀甀昀昀ഊproperly (possible, but more difficult). This may have something to do ਀眀椀琀栀 瀀爀漀瀀漀爀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 洀愀礀戀攀 礀漀甀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀漀爀欀猀 漀甀琀 琀漀 洀漀爀攀 昀愀琀 琀栀愀渀 洀椀渀攀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀䌀漀漀氀 猀琀甀昀昀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 椀猀渀✀琀 椀琀㼀ഊ ਀䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:10:15 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Hot water pie crust ਀ഊ> Has anyone (Bear, for instance?) tried the hot water method for making pie ਀㸀 挀爀甀猀琀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 椀渀 匀愀戀椀渀愀 圀攀氀猀攀爀椀渀㼀ഊ ਀䤀✀瘀攀 洀愀搀攀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 愀渀搀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 搀漀甀最栀 椀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 㘀㄀ 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 琀椀洀攀猀Ⰰ 甀猀椀渀最 愀 ㄀⼀㐀 挀甀瀀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 琀漀 ㄀⼀㐀 挀甀瀀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀⸀  䤀✀瘀攀 洀愀搀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 愀氀氀 瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀ഊwith cake flour, but I used them different ways so there is no real ਀挀漀洀瀀愀爀椀猀漀渀 愀猀 琀漀 眀栀椀挀栀 眀漀爀欀猀 戀攀猀琀⸀  吀栀攀 挀愀欀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀猀 洀漀爀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀ഊdoes not get as stiff as the all purpose flour. ਀ഊFor the latest experiment, I used 2 cups of cake flour sifted with 1 ਀琀攀愀猀瀀漀漀渀 漀昀 猀愀氀琀 愀渀搀 ㈀ 攀最最猀 洀椀砀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 椀琀⸀  䄀昀琀攀爀 眀栀椀挀栀Ⰰ㄀⼀㐀 挀甀瀀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 椀渀ഊ1/4 cup of water brought to a boil then removed from the stove and the ਀戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀氀氀漀眀攀搀 琀漀 洀攀氀琀 眀愀猀 愀搀搀攀搀 愀渀搀 猀琀椀爀爀攀搀 椀渀⸀  吀栀攀 爀攀猀甀氀琀椀渀最 搀漀甀最栀 眀愀猀ഊthen worked with additional flour until smooth. ਀ഊUnchilled, I found the dough to be a little sticky, needing a well floured ਀猀甀爀昀愀挀攀 昀漀爀 爀漀氀氀椀渀最⸀  䄀昀琀攀爀 ㌀　 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 爀攀昀爀椀最攀爀愀琀漀爀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 眀愀猀ഊeasy to handle and rolled out well on a lightly floured surface. ਀ഊRolled thin, it is a nice dough for Krapfen. I used it with Sabina ਀圀攀氀猀攀爀椀渀✀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 匀栀爀漀瘀攀 吀甀攀猀搀愀礀 搀漀甀最栀渀甀琀猀 ⠀㄀㜀㌀⤀⸀  䤀琀 昀爀椀攀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀䄀猀 愀 琀愀爀琀 猀栀攀氀氀Ⰰ 䤀 瀀爀攀ⴀ戀愀欀攀搀 椀琀 愀渀搀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀琀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 琀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀ഊover-done. The next time I will not pre-bake. I found the dough superior ਀琀漀 琀栀攀 攀最最Ⰰ 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀猀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 瀀爀攀瘀椀漀甀猀氀礀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 琀漀漀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 琀爀礀 琀栀椀猀 眀椀琀栀 氀愀爀搀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 䤀 眀椀氀氀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀ഊwith meat broth from lamb shanks first. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㌀　 䄀甀最 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㈀㄀㨀㈀　㨀㈀㔀 ⴀ　㐀　　 ⠀䔀䐀吀⤀ഊFrom: cclark at vicon.net ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 椀挀攀氀愀渀搀椀挀 挀栀椀挀欀攀渀 爀攀搀愀挀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ ਀✀䰀愀椀渀椀攀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>david friedman wrote: ਀㸀㸀 ⸀⸀⸀ 䤀渀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 挀漀爀瀀甀猀Ⰰ 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 琀漀ഊ>> short pastes--doughs with shortening. It looks to me as if the default ਀㸀㸀 ∀瀀愀猀琀攀∀ 椀猀 戀愀猀椀挀愀氀氀礀 愀 昀氀漀甀爀⸀⼀眀愀琀攀爀 搀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 愀搀搀椀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最ഊ>> is considered a variation worth noting. ... ਀㸀ഊ>Hmm. By that rationale, perhaps going back to piecrust is the best ਀㸀猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀㼀 䴀礀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀 愀爀攀㨀 眀椀氀氀 琀栀攀 欀椀搀猀 攀愀琀 椀琀㼀 䄀渀搀 栀漀眀 挀愀渀 䤀ഊ>make it in camp with a minimum of fuss and mess (important when ਀㸀㄀㔀ⴀ礀攀愀爀ⴀ漀氀搀猀 愀爀攀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最⤀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀愀琀 搀攀瀀攀渀搀猀 漀渀 眀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 洀攀愀渀 戀礀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀ 䴀漀猀琀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀猀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 ∀欀渀漀眀∀ഊthat pie crust consists of partially hydrogenated vegetable oil (or ਀∀瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最∀⤀ 挀甀琀 椀渀琀漀 猀愀氀琀攀搀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 琀栀攀渀 洀漀椀猀琀攀渀攀搀 眀椀琀栀ഊcold water to make it hold together. If they know that much. What period ਀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 ⠀漀爀 漀琀栀攀爀⤀ 挀漀漀欀猀 欀渀攀眀 眀愀猀 愀 戀椀琀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀⸀ഊ ਀吀漀 戀攀最椀渀 眀椀琀栀Ⰰ 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀漀漀欀猀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 眀愀猀 琀漀 戀攀ഊeaten. But if it was to be eaten, they would likely improve it by using a ਀昀椀渀攀爀 最爀愀搀攀 漀昀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 洀攀氀琀攀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 ⠀戀愀挀欀 琀栀攀渀Ⰰഊbutter seems to have been the most popular shortening for baking). The first ਀爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 琀漀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最 ⠀愀最愀椀渀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⤀ 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 挀甀琀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀ഊdough is from the 17th century (Digby, perhaps?) and the writer implies that ਀琀栀椀猀 椀猀 漀爀 洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 愀 渀攀眀 椀渀渀漀瘀愀琀椀漀渀⸀ 䄀渀搀 琀栀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 椀猀 挀甀琀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀ഊafter the rest is mixed, instead of the modern method of adding water after ਀琀栀攀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最 椀猀 挀甀琀 椀渀⸀ 䰀漀漀欀猀 氀椀欀攀 愀 搀椀爀攀挀琀 愀搀愀瀀琀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瀀甀昀昀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 䤀ഊwould guess that this 17th-century pastry was an ancestor of our modern ਀昀氀愀欀礀 愀渀搀 洀攀愀氀礀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀匀漀 椀昀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 琀漀 甀猀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 猀琀礀氀攀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀甀最最攀猀琀 攀椀琀栀攀爀 愀ഊplain flour-water dough (perhaps lightly salted, and probably using some ਀渀漀渀ⴀ眀栀攀愀琀 昀氀漀甀爀⤀Ⰰ 漀爀 愀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀攀氀琀攀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 搀漀甀最栀⸀ 䐀漀渀✀琀 甀猀攀 愀ഊwhole lot of butter or it gets grease all over your fingers. Not good for ਀礀漀甀爀 搀攀砀琀攀爀椀琀礀⸀ ⠀吀栀漀甀最栀 愀 猀氀甀最 洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀渀挀攀爀渀攀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 猀愀氀琀⸀⸀⸀⤀ഊ ਀䄀氀攀砀 䌀氀愀爀欀⼀䠀攀渀爀礀 漀昀 䴀愀氀搀漀渀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:37:23 EDT ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䰀爀搀刀愀猀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: Re: SC - RE:New CA: French Food in the Renaissance ਀ഊDeborah.Schumacher at iac.honeywell.com writes: ਀ 㰀㰀䄀渀漀琀栀攀爀 琀栀椀渀最 椀 渀漀琀攀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀猀⼀琀愀爀琀猀 眀栀攀渀 昀椀氀氀攀搀Ⰰ 栀愀瘀攀 愀ഊ rather thin filling and that the filling may need to be doubled for modern ਀ 琀愀猀琀攀猀⸀⸀⸀⸀㰀猀渀椀瀀㸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀眀攀爀攀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 瀀椀攀猀 氀攀猀猀 昀甀氀氀㼀 伀爀 眀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀ഊ crusts smaller making the filling more substantial? Do we know what the ਀ 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 瀀椀攀 猀椀稀攀 眀愀猀㼀   㸀㸀ഊ ਀䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 琀栀椀渀欀 眀攀 欀渀漀眀⸀ 䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 洀椀搀搀氀攀 愀最攀猀 猀栀漀眀 愀ഊcommon type of 'pie' which appears to be about 6-7 inches across, about 4 ਀椀渀挀栀攀猀 栀椀最栀Ⰰ 猀琀爀愀椀最栀琀 猀椀搀攀搀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 栀漀氀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀攀渀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀䤀昀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 爀攀昀攀爀爀椀渀最 琀漀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 愀洀漀甀渀琀猀 椀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀 瀀椀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀ഊadapted from period recipes, I would suggest that the author either did not ਀琀爀礀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 愀洀漀甀渀琀猀 猀琀愀琀攀搀 漀爀 甀猀攀搀 愀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀愀戀氀礀 猀洀愀氀氀攀爀 挀爀甀猀琀ഊdiameter than stated. If you are referring to a period recipe, then no ਀愀洀漀甀渀琀猀 愀爀攀 最椀瘀攀渀 猀漀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 洀愀欀攀 愀猀 洀甀挀栀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 愀猀 椀琀 琀愀欀攀猀 琀漀 昀椀氀氀ഊthe pie. ਀ഊRas ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀ 匀攀瀀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㄀㨀　㠀㨀㐀㘀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 匀䌀 刀攀㨀 一攀眀 䌀䄀㨀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 䘀漀漀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 刀攀渀愀椀猀猀愀渀挀攀ഊ ਀㸀 䐀攀戀漀爀愀栀⸀匀挀栀甀洀愀挀栀攀爀 愀琀 椀愀挀⸀栀漀渀攀礀眀攀氀氀⸀挀漀洀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ> << are there any surviving pie plates? Where would I look for ਀㸀  椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 琀栀攀洀㼀  㸀㸀ഊ> ਀㸀 倀攀爀椀漀搀 椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀 搀漀渀✀琀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 猀栀漀眀 愀渀礀 搀椀猀栀 琀栀愀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀愀戀氀礀ഊ> called a pie plate. The pies were apparently free standing. The key to ਀㸀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀椀攀猀 椀猀 琀漀 爀攀愀氀椀稀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀攀爀 眀愀猀 洀漀猀琀ഊ> likely not meant to be eaten. ਀㸀ഊ> Ras ਀ഊPieter Brueghel's Peasant Wedding shows pies which look suspiciously like ਀洀漀搀攀爀渀 瀀椀攀猀 戀攀椀渀最 挀愀爀琀攀搀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 猀漀洀攀 瀀氀愀渀欀椀渀最 氀愀椀搀 漀瘀攀爀 琀眀漀ഊpoles. I would say they could have been baked in a standard pie tin or a ਀瀀氀愀椀渀 琀愀爀琀 瀀愀渀⸀  吀栀椀猀 椀猀 䈀爀甀攀最栀攀氀 琀栀攀 䔀氀搀攀爀Ⰰ 挀⸀ ㄀㔀㈀㔀ⴀ㄀㔀㘀㤀⸀ഊ ਀䔀愀爀氀椀攀爀 眀漀漀搀挀甀琀猀 愀渀搀 搀爀愀眀椀渀最猀 猀栀漀眀 戀愀欀攀爀猀 甀猀椀渀最 搀椀猀栀攀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 爀攀猀攀洀戀氀攀 搀攀攀瀀Ⰰഊcovered casserole dishes, but without explanation of precisely what is being ਀瀀爀攀瀀愀爀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀䤀䤀刀䌀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀 昀爀漀洀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀✀猀 伀瀀攀爀愀 猀栀漀眀 猀漀洀攀 琀愀爀琀 瀀愀渀猀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:42:48 -0700 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䄀渀渀攀ⴀ䴀愀爀椀攀 刀漀甀猀猀攀愀甀 㰀愀挀爀漀甀猀猀 愀琀 最琀攀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - SC Re: New CA: French Food in the Renaissance ਀ഊhey all from Anne-Marie ਀吀攀爀爀礀 猀攀稀㨀ഊ>Pieter Brueghel's Peasant Wedding shows pies which look suspiciously like ਀㸀洀漀搀攀爀渀 瀀椀攀猀 戀攀椀渀最 挀愀爀琀攀搀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 猀漀洀攀 瀀氀愀渀欀椀渀最 氀愀椀搀 漀瘀攀爀 琀眀漀ഊ>poles. I would say they could have been baked in a standard pie tin or a ਀㸀瀀氀愀椀渀 琀愀爀琀 瀀愀渀⸀  吀栀椀猀 椀猀 䈀爀甀攀最栀攀氀 琀栀攀 䔀氀搀攀爀Ⰰ 挀⸀ ㄀㔀㈀㔀ⴀ㄀㔀㘀㤀⸀ഊ ਀䘀甀渀渀礀Ⰰ 䤀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 椀渀琀攀爀瀀爀攀琀攀搀 琀栀椀猀 愀猀 戀漀眀氀猀 漀昀 猀漀甀瀀 漀爀 挀甀猀琀愀爀搀Ⰰ 猀攀攀椀渀最 愀猀 栀漀眀ഊthere's a guy in the back tilting it back like a drinking bowl? Or am I ਀洀椀猀爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀椀渀最㼀ഊ ਀ⴀ ⴀⴀ䄀䴀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:05:33 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - SC Re: New CA: French Food in the Renaissance ਀ഊ> Terry sez: ਀㸀 㸀倀椀攀琀攀爀 䈀爀甀攀最栀攀氀✀猀 倀攀愀猀愀渀琀 圀攀搀搀椀渀最 猀栀漀眀猀 瀀椀攀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 氀漀漀欀 猀甀猀瀀椀挀椀漀甀猀氀礀 氀椀欀攀ഊ> >modern pies being carted around the table on some planking laid over two ਀㸀ഊ> Funny, I always interpreted this as bowls of soup or custard, seeing as how ਀㸀 琀栀攀爀攀✀猀 愀 最甀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀椀氀琀椀渀最 椀琀 戀愀挀欀 氀椀欀攀 愀 搀爀椀渀欀椀渀最 戀漀眀氀㼀 伀爀 愀洀 䤀ഊ> misremembering? ਀㸀ഊ> --AM ਀ഊI'm working for memory also so we both may be wrong. It is also possible ਀琀栀攀爀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀 猀攀爀椀攀猀 漀昀 瀀愀椀渀琀椀渀最猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀⸀  吀栀攀 漀渀攀 䤀✀洀ഊremember has a couple husky fellows lugging the pies around in the ਀昀漀爀攀最爀漀甀渀搀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:41:06 -0400 (EDT) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 挀挀氀愀爀欀 愀琀 瘀椀挀漀渀⸀渀攀琀ഊSubject: SC - Edible pastry (was: The first fish recipe) ਀ഊKerri (Cedrin Etainnighean, OL) wrote: ਀㸀 ⸀⸀⸀ 䄀氀猀漀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀ഊ>make distinctions between edible and inedible dough coverings? ਀ഊThanks for posing these precise questions. I was being a little too vague in ਀洀礀 瀀爀攀瘀椀漀甀猀 爀攀洀愀爀欀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 最漀椀渀最 漀渀 洀攀洀漀爀礀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 挀漀渀猀甀氀琀椀渀最 戀攀琀琀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 爀攀挀愀氀氀 愀渀礀 琀栀愀琀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀愀琀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀 搀椀猀琀椀渀挀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 愀猀 䤀ഊrecall _The_English_Huswife_, ed. by Markham, has a group of pie crust ਀爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 爀愀渀最椀渀最 昀爀漀洀 挀漀愀爀猀攀 琀漀 昀椀渀攀 ☀ 猀栀漀爀琀⸀ 䈀甀琀 椀琀✀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 氀椀戀爀愀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊthe library is closed at this hour. Anyway it's relatively modern (slightly ਀愀昀琀攀爀 ㄀㘀　　⤀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀 椀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 氀椀欀攀 愀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 椀渀搀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 眀栀愀琀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀ഊpractices *might* have been. ਀ഊ_A_Proper_newe_Booke_of_Cokerye_, in Duke Cariadoc's collection, often makes ਀猀漀洀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 眀栀愀琀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 椀猀 甀猀攀搀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 椀猀 椀渀 椀琀Ⰰ 漀爀ഊ(sometimes) even how to make it. Usually it's a short pastry. Here are some ਀攀砀愀洀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 猀琀愀爀琀椀渀最 攀愀爀氀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 愀渀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀搀椀渀最 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀爀攀⸀ 倀愀最攀 渀甀洀戀攀爀猀ഊare from the 1987 edition. ਀ഊ"a Custarde" (p. 23/C7) says that the coffin must first be hardened in the ਀漀瘀攀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 椀猀 昀椀氀氀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀 挀爀攀愀洀 愀渀搀 猀甀最愀爀 挀甀猀琀愀爀搀 眀椀琀栀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 愀渀搀ഊdates, and choice of butter or marrow. No further instructions for the crust. ਀ഊ"pyes of grene apples" (p. 29/C8) calls for a coffin made with "a lyttle ਀昀愀礀爀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 栀愀氀昀 愀 搀礀挀栀攀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 匀愀昀昀爀漀渀Ⰰ∀ 栀攀愀琀攀搀Ⰰ 洀椀砀攀搀ഊwith flour and two egg whites, and assembled in a two crust pie. ਀ഊ"chekins in lyke paest" (pp. 29-31/C8-C9) describes chickens baked in the ਀猀愀洀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 愀猀 琀栀攀 ∀最爀攀渀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ∀ 眀椀琀栀 昀爀甀椀琀 愀渀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀 椀琀✀猀 戀愀欀攀搀Ⰰഊit says "drawe youre baken chekins" and serve with a sauce of verjuice and ਀攀最最 礀漀氀欀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 眀栀攀琀栀攀爀 琀栀攀 挀栀椀挀欀攀渀猀 愀爀攀 猀攀爀瘀攀搀 椀渀ഊthe pastry. The next recipe calls for pigeons, spices, and verjuice, baked ਀椀渀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 䄀琀 琀栀攀 攀渀搀Ⰰ 椀琀 猀愀礀猀 ∀䤀昀 礀攀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀礀洀 搀爀礀攀Ⰰ 琀愀欀攀 愀ഊlyttle vergis and butter and put to theim and serve theym." ਀ഊ"pescoddes" (p. 33/C9) are spiced marrow fried in a pastry described as ਀昀漀氀氀漀眀猀㨀 ∀洀愀欀攀 礀漀甀爀攀 瀀愀攀猀琀攀 愀猀 昀礀渀攀 愀猀 礀攀 挀愀渀渀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀猀 猀栀漀爀琀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀礀渀 愀猀ഊye canne." The next recipe, "stock frytures," is cooked in the same pastry, ਀愀渀搀 洀愀礀 戀攀 昀爀椀攀搀 漀爀 戀愀欀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀∀愀 瀀礀攀 漀昀 愀氀漀眀攀猀∀ ⠀瀀⸀ ㌀㔀⼀䌀㄀　⤀ 椀猀 昀椀氀氀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀Ⰰ 栀愀爀搀 攀最最 礀漀氀欀猀Ⰰഊherbs and spices, all rolled in thin slices of mutton, plus spices, more ਀栀愀爀搀 攀最最 礀漀氀欀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀⸀ 䤀琀 椀猀 戀愀欀攀搀 椀渀 愀渀 甀渀猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀攀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊthen a spiced syrup is poured in before serving. ਀ഊThe next few pages (37-41/C10-C11) have recipes for tarts. First comes the ਀爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 ∀猀栀漀爀琀 瀀愀攀猀琀 昀漀爀 琀愀爀琀攀㨀∀ 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 猀愀昀昀爀漀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 攀最最ഊyolks. It looks like the only definite proportion stated is a dish of butter ਀琀漀 琀眀漀 攀最最 礀漀氀欀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 琀愀爀琀猀 琀栀愀琀 昀漀氀氀漀眀 愀爀攀 昀椀氀氀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 戀攀愀渀猀Ⰰ 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀ഊfruits and flowers, spinach, and cheese. ਀ഊ"couer tarte after the frenche fashyan" (p. 45/C12) has two crusts; the ਀挀爀甀猀琀猀 愀爀攀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀搀 愀猀 ∀挀愀欀攀猀 漀昀 昀礀渀攀 瀀愀攀猀琀攀⸀∀ 吀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 椀猀 愀 猀眀攀攀琀 挀爀攀愀洀ഊcustard. ਀ഊEarlier recipes that call for pastry tend not to specify the kind of pastry, ਀攀砀挀攀瀀琀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 爀愀爀攀 椀渀挀氀甀猀椀漀渀 漀昀 愀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 椀渀挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀 氀椀猀琀Ⰰഊsuch as the eggs or almond milk in the dough for cuskyn ... Am I allowed to ਀洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 琀栀漀猀攀 栀攀爀攀㼀 圀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 栀攀挀欀㨀ഊ ਀䌀甀猀欀礀渀漀氀攀猀℀ 㨀ⴀ⤀ഊ ਀䤀 最攀琀 琀栀攀 椀洀瀀爀攀猀猀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 椀猀 洀漀爀攀 漀昀琀攀渀ഊdescribed for things like rissoles, turnovers, or dumplings, rather than for ਀瀀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀愀爀琀猀⸀ 倀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 琀栀愀琀 洀攀愀渀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀 洀漀爀攀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀ഊformer, while the latter were baked with just one or two standard types of ਀瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 䴀愀礀戀攀 琀栀攀 昀漀爀洀攀爀 眀攀爀攀 洀漀爀攀 漀昀琀攀渀 挀漀漀欀攀搀 椀渀 昀椀渀攀Ⰰ 猀眀攀攀琀Ⰰ 漀爀 猀栀漀爀琀ഊpastry. Or maybe not. Who knows? (That's not necessarily a rhetorical question.) ਀ഊIf I were to leap to conclusions now, I would guess that almost any pie from ਀琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 洀椀搀搀氀攀 愀最攀猀 漀爀 爀攀渀愀椀猀猀愀渀挀攀 ⠀愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀⤀ 挀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀ഊbaked in a short pastry, but that some types, such as savory meat pies, ਀洀椀最栀琀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 挀漀漀欀攀搀 椀渀 愀 挀漀愀爀猀攀爀 愀渀搀 氀攀猀猀 戀甀琀琀攀爀礀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀ 吀栀攀 ∀倀爀漀瀀攀爀 渀攀眀攀ഊBooke" seems to prefer egg whites in the pastry for two crust pies and yolks ਀昀漀爀 漀渀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀愀爀琀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 昀爀椀攀搀 昀漀漀搀猀 椀渀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 甀猀攀搀ഊunshortened pastry, while others used a pastry as short as the cook could ਀栀愀渀搀氀攀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 琀攀愀爀椀渀最 ⠀猀攀攀 ∀瀀攀猀挀漀搀搀攀猀∀ 愀戀漀瘀攀⤀⸀ഊ ਀䄀氀攀砀 䌀氀愀爀欀⼀䠀攀渀爀礀 漀昀 䴀愀氀搀漀渀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:58:16 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 搀愀瘀椀搀 昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀 㰀搀搀昀爀 愀琀 戀攀猀琀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Edible pastry (was: The first fish recipe) ਀ഊAt 2:41 AM -0400 9/7/99, cclark at vicon.net wrote: ਀㸀䬀攀爀爀椀 ⠀䌀攀搀爀椀渀 䔀琀愀椀渀渀椀最栀攀愀渀Ⰰ 伀䰀⤀ 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>> ... Also, what sources ਀㸀㸀洀愀欀攀 搀椀猀琀椀渀挀琀椀漀渀猀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 攀搀椀戀氀攀 愀渀搀 椀渀攀搀椀戀氀攀 搀漀甀最栀 挀漀瘀攀爀椀渀最猀㼀ഊ ਀䤀✀洀 渀漀琀 挀漀渀瘀椀渀挀攀搀 琀栀攀礀 甀猀攀搀 椀渀攀搀椀戀氀攀 搀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 椀琀✀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀ഊseems to be a distinction between paste and short paste. I think a possible ਀椀渀琀攀爀瀀爀攀琀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 ∀瀀愀猀琀攀∀ 渀漀爀洀愀氀氀礀 洀攀愀渀猀 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀ഊwater (and probably salt) kneaded to a dough, that it was edible (that is ਀栀漀眀 䤀 搀漀 䤀挀攀氀愀渀搀椀挀 挀栀椀挀欀攀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 挀愀猀椀渀最 椀猀 攀搀椀戀氀攀ⴀⴀ攀瘀攀渀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 瀀愀爀琀ഊthat hasn't soaked in the fat and juices) but relatively tough, like a hard ਀瀀椀稀稀愀 搀漀甀最栀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 愀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀ 䤀渀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀攀 椀琀 洀椀最栀琀 渀漀琀 愀氀氀 最攀琀ഊeaten, and the remains might be sent out to the poor at the gate, of fed to ਀琀栀攀 瀀椀最猀 漀爀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最⸀ 匀漀 ∀瀀愀猀琀攀∀ 椀猀 搀漀甀最栀 漀瀀琀椀洀椀稀攀搀 愀猀 愀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀攀爀Ⰰ ∀猀栀漀爀琀ഊpaste" is optimized as food (and contains fat), but each also serves the ਀漀琀栀攀爀 瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀⸀ഊ ਀䐀漀攀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀愀瘀攀 挀氀攀愀爀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀琀攀爀瀀爀攀琀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 眀爀漀渀最㼀 䤀✀洀ഊbasing it on my experience with making "paste" in that sense, plus the ਀最攀渀攀爀愀氀 椀搀攀愀 琀栀愀琀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 爀攀氀甀挀琀愀渀琀 琀漀 爀漀甀琀椀渀攀氀礀 眀愀猀琀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 漀渀ഊsomething nobody could eat when they could always use crockery containers ਀椀渀猀琀攀愀搀⸀ഊ ਀䐀愀瘀椀搀⼀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀ഊhttp://www.best.com/~ddfr/ ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀ 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㤀㨀㈀㘀㨀　㜀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Laura C Minnick ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 昀漀甀爀 愀渀搀 琀眀攀渀琀礀 戀氀愀挀欀戀椀爀搀猀ഊ ਀伀渀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀ 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀Ⰰ 䌀椀渀搀礀 刀攀渀昀爀漀眀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> The problem is that the flour used to fill the coffin hardened ਀㸀 椀渀琀漀 愀 挀栀愀氀欀礀 洀愀猀猀⸀  䤀✀瘀攀 挀栀椀瀀瀀攀搀 愀眀愀礀 愀琀 椀琀Ⰰ ☀ 昀椀渀愀氀氀礀 洀愀渀愀最攀搀 琀漀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀ഊ> it all without breaking the bottom crust. (The bottom crust was not stiff ਀㸀 攀渀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 猀漀 䤀✀瘀攀 瀀漀瀀瀀攀搀 椀琀 戀愀挀欀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀 愀琀 㐀　　䘀⸀⤀  䴀礀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 椀猀Ⰰ 挀愀渀ഊ> my 6 lbs. of baked flour be re-used for another recipe? ਀ഊI don't know what to do with the flour either, but I have an idea ਀昀漀爀 愀渀 愀氀琀攀爀渀愀琀椀瘀攀ⴀ 洀礀 最爀愀渀搀洀愀Ⰰ 眀栀攀渀 戀愀欀椀渀最 戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 昀漀爀 挀甀猀琀愀爀搀Ⰰഊetc, used to put a couple of inches of dried beans in the bottom. She had ਀愀 琀椀渀 漀昀 戀攀愀渀猀 猀攀琀 愀猀椀搀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀愀琀ⴀ 漀渀挀攀 礀漀甀✀瘀攀 戀愀欀攀搀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀✀爀攀 渀攀砀琀 琀漀ഊimpossible to cook up for soup. Could you fill a whole shell with beans, ਀攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀㼀 䤀 愀氀猀漀 猀攀攀渀 琀漀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 琀栀愀琀ഊWilliams-Sonoma had some bean-like things made of ceramics that were for ਀琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀 戀攀愀渀猀 愀爀攀 愀氀漀琀 挀栀攀愀瀀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀✀䰀愀椀渀椀攀ഊ- - ਀䰀愀甀爀愀 䌀⸀ 䴀椀渀渀椀挀欀ഊUniversity of Oregon ਀䐀攀瀀愀爀琀洀攀渀琀 漀昀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:57:48 EST ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 匀椀最爀椀搀倀圀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: Re: SC - four and twenty blackbirds ਀ഊfiondel at fastrans.net writes: ਀㰀㰀 猀甀最最攀猀琀椀漀渀ⴀ 渀攀砀琀 琀椀洀攀Ⰰ 琀爀礀 甀猀椀渀最 爀椀挀攀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 昀氀漀甀爀⸀ 㸀㸀ഊ ਀伀爀 戀攀愀渀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 戀氀椀渀搀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 眀攀椀最栀琀猀⸀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀䰀愀搀礀 䜀椀甀最氀椀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 01:13:44 PST ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䰀椀渀搀愀 吀愀礀氀漀爀∀ 㰀氀洀琀开椀渀瀀渀眀 愀琀 栀漀琀洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Traps? ਀ഊIn regard to pies and tarts and what, if anything, they were baked in, I did ਀猀漀洀攀 挀栀攀挀欀椀渀最 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 愀 昀攀眀 洀漀渀琀栀猀 戀愀挀欀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 琀愀甀最栀琀 愀 挀氀愀猀猀 漀渀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 ഊpastry for our monthly Baronial culinary night. ਀ഊI noticed that there actually seemed to be two distinct types of pie/tart ਀爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀攀砀琀猀⸀ 伀渀攀 眀愀猀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 开倀椀攀开Ⰰ ഊwas as tall or taller than it was wide, seems to have been made with ਀栀漀琀ⴀ眀愀琀攀爀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀愀猀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 洀愀搀攀 戀礀 猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀椀稀攀搀 瀀椀攀ⴀ洀愀欀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ഊbaked in a full-size oven. The other was called _Tart_ (or torte, torta). It ਀眀愀猀 猀栀愀氀氀漀眀 愀渀搀 戀爀漀愀搀Ⰰ 愀猀 漀甀爀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 瀀椀攀猀 愀爀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀愀猀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 ഊflour-water-olive oil pastry or any of several different kinds of ਀猀栀漀爀琀挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀 栀漀琀ⴀ眀愀琀攀爀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 䤀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 戀愀欀攀搀 愀琀 栀漀洀攀Ⰰ 漀渀 琀栀攀 ഊhearth, in a lidded pan with coals placed both beneath the pan and on top of ਀琀栀攀 氀椀搀Ⰰ 洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 漀瘀攀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀愀渀 椀琀猀攀氀昀⸀ 吀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 昀漀爀 愀 倀椀攀 挀漀甀氀搀 ഊinclude whole, unboned poultry or joints of meat (though it did not always), ਀愀渀搀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 漀昀琀攀渀 戀攀攀渀 猀攀爀瘀攀搀 戀礀 猀挀漀漀瀀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀漀渀琀攀渀琀猀 漀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ഊcrust after the lid was removed (the lid being put back on the leftovers to ਀猀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀洀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 渀攀砀琀 搀愀礀⤀⸀ 吀愀爀琀猀Ⰰ 漀渀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 栀愀渀搀Ⰰ 眀攀爀攀 昀椀氀氀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 ഊfine-textured mixtures, which could be sliced, and served, with the crust. ਀吀栀攀 栀漀琀ⴀ眀愀琀攀爀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 倀椀攀 眀愀猀 猀琀甀爀搀礀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀漀氀搀 ഊits shape in the oven without benefit of a pan (indeed, that was largely the ਀瀀漀椀渀琀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀 椀琀 眀愀猀 戀愀欀攀搀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 漀渀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 ⠀甀猀甀愀氀氀礀⤀ 洀漀爀攀 琀攀渀搀攀爀 愀渀搀 ഊthinly-rolled dough of the Tart needed more support, not only for its own ਀猀愀欀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 愀氀猀漀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 椀琀 眀愀猀 昀爀攀焀甀攀渀琀氀礀 昀椀氀氀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最猀 氀椀欀攀 挀甀猀琀愀爀搀 ഊor applesauce which were fairly liquid before being baked. The dough for a ਀吀愀爀琀 眀愀猀 氀愀椀搀 椀渀 愀 开琀爀愀瀀开Ⰰ 愀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀渀⼀瀀椀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀Ⰰ 戀攀昀漀爀攀 椀琀 眀愀猀 昀椀氀氀攀搀⸀ 倀椀攀猀 ഊalways had a top crust, which was necessary to keep the filling moist during ਀琀栀攀 氀漀渀最 戀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀椀爀 搀攀攀瀀 猀栀愀瀀攀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀搀⸀ 吀愀爀琀猀 挀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀爀 ഊnot, as they were shallow, and baked relatively quickly. ਀ഊI would be interested to hear if others have gotten these impressions as ਀眀攀氀氀⸀ഊA couple of specific references: ਀ഊI am looking at some drawings from _Opera_ by Bartolomeo Scappi, 1570, as ਀爀攀瀀爀漀搀甀挀攀搀 椀渀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀 䐀愀瘀椀搀✀猀 开䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 䌀漀漀欀椀渀最开 ⠀琀栀攀 ㄀㤀㤀㘀 攀搀椀琀椀漀渀 眀椀琀栀 愀氀氀 ഊthe pretty pictures). The drawings are of cooking equipment. He shows ਀猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 爀漀甀渀搀 瀀愀渀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 栀攀 氀愀戀攀氀猀 开琀漀爀琀攀爀攀开⸀ 伀渀攀 栀愀猀 猀氀漀瀀椀渀最 猀椀搀攀猀 愀渀搀 椀猀 ഊvery shallow,looking very much like an American pie pan. Another has ਀猀琀爀愀椀最栀琀 猀椀搀攀猀 愀渀搀 椀猀 猀氀椀最栀琀氀礀 搀攀攀瀀攀爀 ⠀琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀 猀挀愀氀攀 栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀昀 琀栀攀 ഊpans were 9 inches in diameter, I would say the first would be about 1 inch ਀搀攀攀瀀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 猀攀挀漀渀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀ⴀ㄀⼀㈀ 椀渀挀栀攀猀⤀⸀ 吀栀攀渀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 瀀愀渀猀 氀愀戀攀氀氀攀搀 开瀀愀搀攀氀氀攀 ഊda torta alte_ which are slightly deeper (1-1/2 to 2 inches, again assuming ਀愀 㤀 椀渀挀栀 搀椀愀洀攀琀攀爀⤀ 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 猀栀愀氀氀漀眀 爀椀洀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 攀搀最攀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ 伀渀攀 ഊof these appears to have a torta with a lattice-top in it! He also shows a ਀开琀漀爀琀攀爀愀 挀漀渀 椀氀 挀漀瀀攀爀琀漀开Ⰰ 愀渀 愀猀猀攀洀戀氀愀最攀 漀昀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀栀愀氀氀漀眀攀爀 琀漀爀琀攀爀攀 ഊsitting on/in a short, 3-legged base, with a sort of inverted pan on longer ਀氀攀最猀 愀戀漀瘀攀 椀琀 昀漀爀 愀 氀椀搀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 椀琀攀洀猀 氀愀戀攀氀氀攀搀 开挀漀瀀攀爀挀栀椀 瀀攀爀 ഊtortere_ which appear to be another sort of lid - they look like nothing so ਀洀甀挀栀 愀猀 琀栀攀 昀氀愀琀Ⰰ 戀爀漀愀搀ⴀ戀爀椀洀洀攀搀 栀愀琀猀 眀漀爀渀 戀礀 䌀愀爀搀椀渀愀氀猀⸀ 唀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀攀氀礀Ⰰ 䤀 搀漀 ഊnot have a picture of these pans actually in use, but Platina's recipes for ਀琀漀爀琀攀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 爀攀昀攀爀 琀漀 琀栀攀猀攀 猀愀洀攀 愀爀爀愀渀最攀洀攀渀琀猀⸀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀 䐀愀瘀椀搀 戀漀漀欀Ⰰ 愀 爀攀瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 愀 氀愀琀攀 ㄀㔀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 ഊfresco in Val d'Aosta shows a pie-baker's shop. One man is spreading a lump ਀漀昀 搀漀甀最栀 漀甀琀 戀礀 瀀爀攀猀猀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 栀椀猀 栀愀渀搀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀氀攀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 椀猀 甀猀椀渀最 愀 瀀攀攀氀 琀漀 ഊput a completed pie into a large oven built into the wall. Many more pies ਀愀眀愀椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 挀漀甀渀琀攀爀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 猀栀愀瀀攀Ⰰ 挀礀氀椀渀搀爀椀挀愀氀 眀椀琀栀 愀 ഊslightly domed top, but of varying sizes. The majority look to be about 8 ਀椀渀挀栀攀猀 愀挀爀漀猀猀 愀渀搀 㔀 椀渀挀栀攀猀 栀椀最栀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 猀漀洀攀 猀洀愀氀氀攀爀 漀渀攀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 㘀砀㐀 椀渀挀栀攀猀Ⰰ ഊand a large one about 10x5 inches. They appear to be free-standing, and ਀琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 渀漀 洀漀氀搀猀 漀爀 瀀愀渀猀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀瀀⸀ഊ ਀䠀漀瀀攀 琀栀椀猀 栀攀氀瀀猀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀✀猀 洀漀爀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 最漀琀琀愀 最攀琀 琀漀 戀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀䴀漀爀眀礀渀 漀昀 圀礀攀Ⰰ 伀⸀䰀⸀ഊBarony of Three Mountains, An Tir ਀⠀倀漀爀琀氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 伀刀Ⰰ 唀匀䄀⤀ഊmka Linda Taylor, lmt_inpnw at hotmail.com ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㤀 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　　 　㜀㨀㌀㄀㨀㄀㘀 䔀匀吀ഊFrom: Elysant at aol.com ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 倀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 吀愀爀琀猀ഊ ਀䴀漀爀眀礀渀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀 ഊ>I noticed that there actually seemed to be two distinct types of pie/tart ਀㸀爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀攀砀琀猀⸀ 伀渀攀 眀愀猀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 开倀椀攀开Ⰰ ഊ>was as tall or taller than it was wide, seems to have been made with ਀㸀栀漀琀ⴀ眀愀琀攀爀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀愀猀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 洀愀搀攀 戀礀 猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀椀稀攀搀 瀀椀攀ⴀ洀愀欀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ഊ>baked in a full-size oven. The other was called _Tart_ (or torte, torta). It ਀㸀眀愀猀 猀栀愀氀氀漀眀 愀渀搀 戀爀漀愀搀Ⰰ 愀猀 漀甀爀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 瀀椀攀猀 愀爀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀愀猀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 ഊ>flour-water-olive oil pastry or any of several different kinds of ਀㸀㼀猀栀漀爀琀挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀 栀漀琀ⴀ眀愀琀攀爀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ ഊ ਀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 琀栀椀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 栀漀氀搀猀 琀爀甀攀 眀椀琀栀 瀀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀愀爀琀猀 椀渀 䈀爀椀琀愀椀渀 琀漀搀愀礀⸀ ഊ Pork pies and another pie of a veal and ham combination with whole hard ਀戀漀椀氀攀搀 攀最最猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀椀搀搀氀攀Ⰰ 琀漀 渀愀洀攀 琀眀漀Ⰰ 愀爀攀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 琀栀椀挀欀 ഊcrusts, and both are very deep pies, Pork pie "sides" measure almost, if not ਀洀漀爀攀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 搀椀愀洀攀琀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 猀洀愀氀氀攀爀 愀渀搀 ഊround shaped. The veal and ham pies, on the other hand, are a long loaf ਀猀栀愀瀀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 氀漀漀欀 猀焀甀愀爀攀 眀栀攀渀 瘀椀攀眀攀搀 ∀攀搀最攀 漀渀∀ ⠀氀椀欀攀 愀 氀漀渀最 戀爀椀挀欀⤀⸀ ഊ ਀䤀渀猀椀搀攀 琀栀攀猀攀 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 樀甀猀琀 愀 猀漀氀椀搀 挀栀甀渀欀 漀昀 洀椀渀挀攀搀 洀攀愀琀Ⰰ 漀爀 ഊmeat and whole hard boiled eggs. They are usually eaten cold, and are ਀瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀 ∀瀀甀戀 昀漀漀搀∀⸀  䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 戀漀琀栀 瀀椀攀猀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 挀漀洀攀 搀漀眀渀 琀漀 甀猀 昀爀漀洀 焀甀椀琀攀 ഊsome time back, but I do not have documentation as to how old they really are ਀甀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀攀氀礀⸀  ഊ ਀∀吀愀爀琀猀∀  挀漀渀琀椀渀甀攀 猀琀椀氀氀 琀漀 戀攀 挀漀渀猀琀爀甀挀琀攀搀 愀猀 洀✀氀愀搀礀 䴀漀爀眀礀渀 猀琀愀琀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀㸀䤀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 戀愀欀攀搀 愀琀 栀漀洀攀Ⰰ 漀渀 琀栀攀 ഊ>hearth, in a lidded pan with coals placed both beneath the pan and on top of ਀㸀琀栀攀 氀椀搀Ⰰ 洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 漀瘀攀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀愀渀 椀琀猀攀氀昀⸀ ഊ ਀唀猀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 洀攀琀栀漀搀 漀昀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最 挀愀欀攀猀 椀猀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀愀氀 圀攀氀猀栀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 ഊalso, one version of "Teisen Lap" that I posted a while back has this ਀洀攀琀栀漀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀 挀漀愀氀猀 漀渀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀椀搀⸀ഊ ਀䄀氀猀漀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 ∀瘀攀爀礀 漀氀搀 愀渀搀 最漀漀搀∀ 圀攀氀猀栀 瀀椀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀栀攀爀攀椀渀 琀栀攀 洀攀愀琀 愀渀搀 ഊvegetables are placed in a dish, 2 inches of water is poured on top, a crust ਀椀猀 愀搀搀攀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 椀猀 琀栀攀渀 挀漀漀欀攀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀漀渀攀猀 愀渀搀 漀渀椀漀渀 愀渀搀 猀愀氀琀 愀渀搀 瀀攀瀀瀀攀爀 愀爀攀 ഊboiled together seperately as the pie is baking, and this stock is then ਀猀琀爀愀椀渀攀搀 愀渀搀 瀀漀甀爀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀Ⰰ 漀渀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最Ⰰ 戀攀昀漀爀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 椀猀 ഊserved. ਀ഊI'm wondering if there are any other pie recipes people know that are ਀瀀爀攀瀀愀爀攀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀椀猀㼀ഊ ਀䄀氀猀漀Ⰰ 琀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀猀 昀漀爀 愀 漀渀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 瀀椀攀⸀  䤀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀渀礀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀 愀猀 琀漀 ഊwhether one crust or two crust pies are earlier in origin? I seem to ਀爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀猀 戀爀漀甀最栀琀 甀瀀 愀 眀栀椀氀攀 愀最漀 栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 洀椀猀琀愀欀攀渀⸀⸀⸀  ഊ ਀䔀氀礀猀愀渀琀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:44:34 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䈀攀琀栀愀渀礀 倀甀戀氀椀挀 䰀椀戀爀愀爀礀∀ 㰀戀攀琀瀀甀氀椀戀 愀琀 瀀琀搀瀀爀漀氀漀最⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Traps? ਀ഊActually, the crust in which the meat pies were often cooked could be ਀爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 愀猀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀猀 椀渀 洀愀渀礀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 漀渀攀 洀椀最栀琀ഊreceive the instruction to "raise" the coffin. Now, if one were deceased, ਀琀栀愀琀 洀椀最栀琀 瀀爀漀瘀攀 愀渀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 昀攀愀琀⸀ 䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 眀愀猀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 愀ഊbox-shape (coffin being a generic word for Box in Middle English, IIRC), and ਀琀栀攀 挀漀渀琀攀渀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 眀愀猀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 昀漀眀氀 漀爀 瀀漀爀欀 漀爀 最愀洀攀Ⰰ 爀愀爀攀氀礀 戀攀攀昀Ⰰഊthough there are always exceptions. Naturally I don't have my sources with ਀洀攀 栀攀爀攀 愀琀 眀漀爀欀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 氀漀漀欀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀⸀ 唀猀琀愀 琀攀愀挀栀 愀 挀氀愀猀猀ഊon the subject. My favorite English butcher has departed this earth, but she ਀愀氀眀愀礀猀 洀愀搀攀 栀攀爀 䴀攀氀琀漀渀 䴀漀眀戀爀愀礀 瀀椀攀猀 猀焀甀愀爀攀 漀爀 爀攀挀琀愀渀最甀氀愀爀Ⰰ 甀猀椀渀最 樀甀猀琀 猀甀挀栀 愀ഊ, well, not a ring, but a bottomless rectangle with a rolled upper edge. ਀吀栀愀琀✀猀 渀漀琀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 漀昀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀攀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 樀甀猀琀 愀 昀漀渀搀 洀攀洀漀爀礀⸀ഊ ਀刀愀椀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀 漀昀 甀猀椀渀最 愀 猀琀椀昀昀 搀漀甀最栀 琀漀 洀漀氀搀ഊthe shape: perhaps with the aid of a trap (mold), perhaps not. I know that ਀挀氀愀礀 瀀漀琀ⴀ洀愀欀椀渀最 猀欀椀氀氀猀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 戀攀攀渀 栀愀渀搀礀 昀漀爀 洀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 䤀 甀猀攀ഊthe outside of a handy container for the mold. We know those solid pies were ਀洀攀愀渀琀 琀漀 猀琀愀渀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 漀眀渀 愀昀琀攀爀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 愀椀搀 漀昀 愀 瀀愀渀 漀爀 昀漀爀洀⸀ഊYou'd need a very hard-baking, stiff crust to do that. It has been ਀瀀漀猀琀甀氀愀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 椀渀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 眀愀猀 洀攀愀渀琀 琀漀 戀攀ഊdiscarded and was used primarily for containment (I have even read a ਀搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀渀 愀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀漀渀 愀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 甀戀椀焀甀椀琀漀甀猀ഊ"alms" that were given to the poor though I am not sure if this is ਀瘀攀爀椀昀椀愀戀氀攀⤀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀 搀漀甀戀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀琀攀渀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 洀愀椀渀 ∀琀栀椀渀最∀ഊhowever, and the crust may have served the purpose of a temporary container, ਀栀攀氀瀀椀渀最 琀漀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 琀栀攀 昀漀漀搀 椀渀猀椀搀攀 昀漀爀 愀 昀攀眀 洀漀爀攀 搀愀礀猀 漀昀 椀琀✀猀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀ഊshelf life. ਀ഊAdamantius could probably give us a good exposition on the make-up of a ਀最漀漀搀Ⰰ 栀愀爀搀 挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 椀昀 栀攀 眀愀猀 昀攀攀氀椀渀最 猀漀 椀渀挀氀椀渀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 渀椀挀攀 猀瀀爀椀渀最 搀愀礀⸀ 䤀ഊgo for hot-water crust myself, made with real butter. Butter always hardens ਀眀攀氀氀 昀漀爀 洀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀猀 洀甀挀栀 栀愀爀搀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 洀漀猀琀 漀琀栀攀爀 昀愀琀猀 愀爀攀 眀栀攀渀 挀漀氀搀 䤀䴀伀⸀ 䤀ഊusually need the use of a collar to restrain the sides of the pie while ਀戀愀欀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀䄀渀搀 最椀瘀攀渀 洀礀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 戀愀挀欀最爀漀甀渀搀Ⰰ 䤀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 猀攀爀瘀攀 洀攀愀琀 瀀椀攀猀 挀漀氀搀⸀ 䠀漀眀 攀氀猀攀ഊwould done get that wonderful, flavorful jelly? ਀ഊAoife ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㤀 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㤀㨀㌀㈀㨀㈀㠀 ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "RANDALL DIAMOND" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀䔀㨀匀䌀 吀爀愀瀀猀ഊ ਀䄀漀椀昀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀㨀ഊ>>>Adamantius could probably give us a good exposition on the make-up of a ਀最漀漀搀Ⰰ 栀愀爀搀 挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 椀昀 栀攀 眀愀猀 昀攀攀氀椀渀最 猀漀 椀渀挀氀椀渀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 渀椀挀攀 猀瀀爀椀渀最 搀愀礀⸀ 䤀ഊgo for hot-water crust myself, made with real butter. Butter always hardens ਀眀攀氀氀 昀漀爀 洀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀猀 洀甀挀栀 栀愀爀搀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 洀漀猀琀 漀琀栀攀爀 昀愀琀猀 愀爀攀 眀栀攀渀 挀漀氀搀 䤀䴀伀⸀ 䤀ഊusually need the use of a collar to restrain the sides of the pie while ਀戀愀欀椀渀最⸀㰀㰀㰀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 洀愀搀攀 洀礀 䴀攀氀琀漀渀 䴀漀眀戀爀愀礀猀 椀渀 爀愀椀猀攀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 挀漀昀昀椀渀猀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀ഊusually round. Hi-gluten flour and boiling lard are what I use to make the ਀搀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 挀漀椀氀椀渀最 漀渀 愀渀 椀渀挀栀 琀栀椀挀欀 戀愀猀攀 氀椀欀攀 洀愀欀椀渀最 瀀漀琀琀攀爀礀⸀  吀栀椀猀 椀猀 眀栀愀琀ഊElisabeth Ayrton instructs in _Provential English Cooking_. She notes ਀琀栀愀琀 栀攀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 挀漀洀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 ㄀㐀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀  䄀爀甀渀搀攀氀 䌀愀猀琀氀攀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀⸀ഊActually, the crust if you pour in sufficient stock becomes quite tasty ਀愀渀搀 愀 最漀漀搀 搀攀愀氀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 椀猀 攀愀琀攀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 昀攀愀猀琀攀爀猀 椀渀 洀礀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀 ⠀愀戀漀甀琀ഊa third of the crust) ਀ഊAkim Yaroslavich ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㄀ 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　　 　㠀㨀㈀㄀㨀㔀　 ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "Rhonda New" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 愀搀瘀椀挀攀ഊ ਀䜀爀攀攀琀椀渀最猀 昀爀漀洀 䰀愀搀礀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀 䠀愀眀欀眀漀漀搀 漀昀 䔀氀昀猀攀愀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 洀攀愀琀 瀀椀攀猀 昀漀爀 昀攀愀猀琀 ⠀猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 搀愀礀猀 愀栀攀愀搀 ⴀ 猀漀洀攀ഊwere frozen, some were refrigerated) and had no problem ਀眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀 戀攀椀渀最 猀漀最最礀⸀ 䄀氀氀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 搀漀甀最栀 眀愀猀ഊmade from "scratch." (Food processor yielded a tougher ਀搀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 洀椀砀椀渀最 戀礀 栀愀渀搀 眀愀猀 洀甀挀栀 猀漀昀琀攀爀⼀昀氀愀欀椀攀爀⸀⤀  䤀 渀攀瘀攀爀ഊoil the bottom of the pan, but I sometimes dust it with flour. ਀ഊWhen I do meat pies at home for dinner, I use a cake pan ਀眀椀琀栀 猀琀爀愀椀最栀琀 猀椀搀攀猀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀氀愀渀琀攀搀 猀椀搀攀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀渀⸀ 吀栀椀猀ഊworks great, too, and I've never had a soggy bottom - only ਀渀椀挀攀 猀氀椀挀攀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 挀愀渀 戀攀 栀攀氀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 栀愀渀搀⸀ഊ ਀倀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 椀琀✀猀 琀栀攀 氀攀渀最琀栀 漀昀 琀椀洀攀 猀瀀攀渀琀 戀愀欀椀渀最㼀  䄀渀搀Ⰰ 椀昀 琀栀攀ഊmeat mixture is not too soupy. ਀ഊ/Ly Elizabeth ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀㈀ 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　　 　㄀㨀㄀㐀㨀㐀㄀ 䔀匀吀ഊFrom: allilyn at juno.com ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 愀搀瘀椀挀攀ഊ ਀㸀㸀 䤀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀氀礀ഊdeplore uncooked/soggy bottom crust, and since it's *MY* feast, I want to ਀搀漀 攀瘀攀爀礀琀栀椀渀最 䤀 挀愀渀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 猀甀爀攀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀 戀愀欀攀猀 甀瀀 渀椀挀攀 ☀ 搀爀礀 愀渀搀ഊintact.<< ਀ഊBuy some extra beans--northern, pea, whatever sort of dry beans, or rice, ਀礀漀甀 最攀琀 愀 最漀漀搀 搀攀愀氀 漀渀⸀  唀猀攀 琀栀攀洀 琀漀 ✀戀氀椀渀搀 戀愀欀攀✀ 礀漀甀爀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀猀Ⰰ 戀攀昀漀爀攀ഊthe filling goes in. Any good modern cook book should have a description ਀漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀椀洀攀猀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀  䤀✀洀 眀椀琀栀 礀漀甀ⴀⴀ猀漀最最礀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 愀爀攀ഊyucky. ਀ഊYou can use a foil 'collar' around the edge to keep the crust there from ਀漀瘀攀爀挀漀漀欀椀渀最 漀爀 戀甀爀渀椀渀最⸀  䨀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 椀琀 漀昀昀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 愀搀搀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 漀爀ഊlattice, or whatever you are using for the topper. Brushing the baked ਀戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀 眀椀琀栀 猀漀洀攀 攀最最 礀漀氀欀 洀椀砀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 眀椀氀氀 栀攀氀瀀 琀漀ഊseal it, too. ਀ഊAllison, allilyn at juno.com ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㄀㐀 䴀愀礀 ㈀　　　 ㈀㄀㨀㈀㔀㨀㄀㄀ ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: Kerri Canepa ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䰀愀爀搀ഊ ਀䴀愀爀攀搀甀搀搀 戀攀最椀渀猀㨀ഊ>I'll use lard in preference to butter (unless the recipe calls for butter) ਀㸀昀漀爀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀猀 挀椀琀攀搀 戀礀 一椀挀挀漀氀漀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 氀愀爀搀 椀猀 猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 昀漀爀 甀猀ഊ>than butter. ਀ഊand then states some interesting dietary info about lard. ਀ഊThanks for quoting the particulars; I _knew_ I'd heard that lard was better than ਀戀甀琀琀攀爀 椀渀 琀攀爀洀猀 漀昀 搀椀攀琀⸀ഊ ਀圀椀琀栀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 洀椀渀搀Ⰰ 䤀✀氀氀 愀最爀攀攀 琀栀愀琀 氀愀爀搀 洀愀欀攀猀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀氀礀 昀氀愀欀礀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 䤀琀Ⰰഊhowever, makes a terrible crust for a free standing tall coffin shape. You look ਀愀琀 椀琀 昀甀渀渀礀 愀渀搀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 瀀椀氀攀 漀昀 昀氀愀欀攀猀⸀ 䐀漀渀✀琀 攀瘀攀渀 琀栀椀渀欀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 挀甀琀ഊthrough it. ਀ഊWhat I'd like to know is what type of pastry would work best for a free standing ਀挀漀昀昀椀渀㼀 伀爀 眀漀甀氀搀 愀 搀漀甀最栀 戀攀 愀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 椀搀攀愀㼀ഊ ਀䌀攀搀爀椀渀ഊPrincess Oertha ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㄀㔀 䴀愀礀 ㈀　　　 　㈀㨀㔀㐀㨀㔀㠀 䔀䐀吀ഊFrom: CBlackwill at aol.com ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䰀愀爀搀ഊ ਀欀攀爀爀椀挀 愀琀 瀀漀戀漀砀⸀愀氀愀猀欀愀⸀渀攀琀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ> What I'd like to know is what type of pastry would work best for a free ਀㸀 猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 挀漀昀昀椀渀㼀 伀爀 眀漀甀氀搀 愀 搀漀甀最栀 戀攀 愀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 椀搀攀愀㼀ഊ ਀䤀猀 琀栀椀猀 ∀挀漀昀昀椀渀∀ 猀甀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 攀搀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ 漀爀 洀攀爀攀氀礀 昀漀爀 愀 ഊcenterpiece/decoration effect? If it is meant to be edible, you may want to ਀挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀 愀 挀爀攀愀洀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 ⠀猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀攀 栀愀氀昀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 眀椀琀栀 挀爀攀愀洀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ ഊand proceed with the recipe as usual). If it is merely decorative, a good ਀猀愀氀琀 搀漀甀最栀 椀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 眀愀礀 琀漀 最漀⸀  匀愀氀琀 搀漀甀最栀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 甀猀攀搀 昀漀爀 愀 ഊlong time for all manner of centerpiece and dough sculpture work, and is very ਀攀愀猀礀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀渀搀 洀漀氀搀⸀  䤀琀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀 琀愀猀琀攀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 最漀漀搀Ⰰ 渀漀爀 椀猀 椀琀 昀氀愀欀礀 ഊ(rather like plaster of paris when it is baked), but it will hold its shape ਀挀漀洀攀 䠀攀挀欀 漀爀 䠀椀最栀 圀愀琀攀爀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀䈀愀氀琀栀愀稀愀爀 漀昀 䈀氀愀挀欀洀漀漀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:38:42 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 匀甀攀 䌀氀攀洀攀渀最攀爀 㰀洀漀漀渀挀愀琀 愀琀 椀渀ⴀ琀挀栀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: SC - Re: hand-grinding wheat and sturdy pastry crusts ਀ഊRe: wheat grinding. According to the documentation, she used a lava ਀洀椀氀氀猀琀漀渀攀 愀渀搀 最爀椀渀搀椀渀最 爀漀氀氀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀渀搀ⴀ最爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 眀栀攀愀琀⸀ഊOh, and the recipe she used for her pastry castle, the walls and turrets ਀漀昀 眀栀椀挀栀 眀攀爀攀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀 漀昀 礀漀甀爀 愀瘀攀爀愀最攀 最爀愀栀愀洀 挀爀愀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊboth sturdy and edible, used a mix of flour, lard, butter, egg yolk, and ਀愀 戀椀琀 漀昀 挀栀攀攀猀攀⸀  匀栀攀 渀漀琀攀猀 愀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀愀氀欀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 戀攀椀渀最ഊhard/strong "because it was often made with little fat." Perhaps that's ਀琀栀攀 欀攀礀 琀漀 洀愀欀椀渀最 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 氀攀猀猀 昀氀愀欀礀⸀  䠀攀爀 昀椀渀椀猀栀攀搀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀 栀愀搀 愀 琀攀砀琀甀爀攀ഊquite similar to that of a cracker. ਀ⴀ ⴀⴀ䴀愀椀爀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:53:25 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀刀䄀一䐀䄀䰀䰀 䐀䤀䄀䴀伀一䐀∀ 㰀爀椀渀最漀昀欀椀渀最猀 愀琀 洀椀渀搀猀瀀爀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: SC - Re: Lard ਀ഊBalthazar says: ਀㸀㸀㸀㸀䄀氀氀爀椀最栀琀⸀⸀⸀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 䤀 愀洀 挀氀甀攀氀攀猀猀 愀最愀椀渀⸀  䌀愀渀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 猀攀渀搀 洀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀ഊfor ਀琀栀椀猀㼀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 猀攀攀 眀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 琀愀氀欀椀渀最 愀戀漀甀琀⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 洀礀 椀搀攀愀 漀昀 愀ഊ"coffin" pastry is different than the one you folks are thinking of.<<<< ਀ഊHere is the recipe I use for raised (coffin) pyes: ਀㄀ 䬀最 栀椀最栀 最氀甀琀攀渀 眀栀攀愀琀 昀氀漀甀爀 ⠀㈀⸀㈀ 氀戀⸀⤀ ⠀一䔀嘀䔀刀 猀攀氀昀 爀椀猀椀渀最⤀ഊ15g Salt (1 Tbsp) ਀㄀⼀㈀ 䬀最 䰀愀爀搀 ⠀㄀⸀㄀ 氀戀⸀⤀ഊ1.5 dl milk (5/8 cup) ਀㄀⸀㔀 搀氀 眀愀琀攀爀 ⠀㔀⼀㠀 挀甀瀀⤀ഊ2 large eggs well beaten ਀㄀ 猀琀椀挀欀 戀甀琀琀攀爀ഊ ਀匀椀昀琀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀 猀愀氀琀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 愀渀搀 爀甀戀 琀栀攀ഊfirm butter into the flour with the fingertips ਀甀渀琀椀氀 挀爀甀洀戀氀礀⸀  䈀漀椀氀 琀栀攀 氀愀爀搀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 洀椀氀欀 愀渀搀ഊwater. (Warning: do not add either to already ਀戀漀椀氀椀渀最 氀愀爀搀⸀  䈀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀 琀漀 愀 戀漀椀氀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀℀⤀ഊMake a well in your mixed flour and pour in the ਀戀漀椀氀椀渀最 ⠀愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最Ⰰ 渀漀琀 樀甀猀琀 栀漀琀⤀ 氀愀爀搀⸀ 匀琀椀爀ഊwith a stout wood spoon until cooled enough to ਀欀渀攀愀搀 眀椀琀栀 礀漀甀爀 戀愀爀攀 栀愀渀搀猀⸀⸀⸀ 猀琀椀氀氀 瘀攀爀礀 栀漀琀Ⰰ 洀椀渀搀ഊyou. You may wear rubber gloves, but I find the ਀瘀攀爀礀 栀漀琀 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀 最爀攀愀猀攀 琀漀 戀攀 瘀攀爀礀 最漀漀搀 昀漀爀ഊmy arthiritis and very moisturizing to the skin. ਀䬀渀攀愀搀 眀攀氀氀 愀渀搀 氀攀琀 猀琀愀渀搀 昀漀爀 ㄀　 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀⸀ഊRoll out some of the dough for the bottom of ਀琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 ㈀挀洀 琀漀 ㌀挀洀 琀栀椀挀欀 ⠀㌀⼀㐀∀ 琀漀㄀ ㄀⼀㐀∀ ⬀⼀ⴀ⤀ഊand cut to shape of pye (round is easiest) and ਀愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀挀洀 ⠀㄀⼀㌀∀⤀ 戀椀最最攀爀 琀栀愀渀 礀漀甀 琀栀椀渀欀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀ഊthe finished coffin to be. The dough/ paste must be ਀眀漀爀欀攀搀 眀栀椀氀攀 栀漀琀 漀爀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 眀愀爀洀⸀ 吀栀攀 琀愀氀氀攀爀 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀Ⰰഊthe thicker the base and walls required, so adjust ਀礀漀甀爀 搀漀甀最栀 愀洀漀甀渀琀猀 瀀爀攀瀀愀爀攀搀 愀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最氀礀⸀  䈀甀椀氀搀ഊup the sides with coiled dough like a potter builds ਀愀 瀀漀琀 甀渀琀椀氀 礀漀甀 最攀琀 椀琀 琀栀攀 栀攀椀最栀琀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀⸀  匀洀漀漀琀栀ഊthe outsides carefully outside and in, always working ਀琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀攀 甀瀀眀愀爀搀猀⸀  䤀昀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 甀猀椀渀最 愀 猀漀椀氀搀 洀攀愀琀ഊfilling like small pieces of pork with currants and such, ਀礀漀甀 挀愀渀 瀀愀挀欀 椀琀 椀渀 猀漀氀椀搀氀礀 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 漀渀 愀 氀椀搀 瀀椀攀挀攀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀ഊsetting the pastry. If your filling is more liquid like ਀愀 昀爀甀椀琀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最Ⰰ 礀漀甀 眀椀氀氀 渀攀攀搀 琀漀 猀攀琀 琀栀攀 昀漀爀洀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最⸀ഊI recommend using long sheets of aluminum foil folded ਀猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 琀椀洀攀猀 氀攀渀最琀栀眀椀猀攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 ∀戀攀氀氀礀戀愀渀搀∀ഊto help keep the form from bowing or collapsing. I use ਀瀀愀瀀攀爀挀氀椀瀀猀 琀漀 栀漀氀搀 琀栀攀 樀漀椀渀攀搀 昀漀氀搀猀 漀昀 昀漀椀氀 挀氀漀猀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀䈀爀甀猀栀 琀栀攀 瀀礀攀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 戀攀愀琀攀渀 攀最最Ⰰ 爀攀猀攀爀瘀椀渀最 猀漀洀攀 昀漀爀 氀愀琀攀爀⸀ഊBake at 190C (375F, Gas Mark 5) for 20 minutes to set ਀琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀  䤀昀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 昀椀氀氀攀搀Ⰰ 爀攀搀甀挀攀 琀漀 ㄀㜀　䌀 ⠀㌀㈀㔀䘀Ⰰ 䜀愀猀 䴀愀爀欀ഊ3) to continue baking. If not filled, cool and fill, then bake at ਀㄀㜀　䌀 ⠀㌀㈀㔀䘀Ⰰ 䜀愀猀 䴀愀爀欀 ㌀⤀⸀  伀戀瘀椀漀甀猀氀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 眀椀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀ഊa great deal to do with the time of baking required, as will ਀琀栀攀 猀椀稀攀 漀昀 礀漀甀爀 挀爀攀愀琀椀漀渀⸀  䄀 猀漀椀氀搀 爀愀眀 洀攀愀琀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 眀椀氀氀 琀愀欀攀 ㄀ ㌀⼀㐀ഊto 2 1/2 hours for a largish pye like this one. Fruit/ mincemeat ਀眀椀氀氀 琀愀欀攀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀ 琀漀 ㄀ ㄀⼀㈀ 栀漀甀爀猀⸀  匀甀挀挀攀猀猀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀猀 猀漀洀攀ഊexperimentation, but generally even the failures are delicious. ਀䄀戀漀甀琀 ㄀　 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 琀栀攀 攀渀搀 漀昀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最 琀椀洀攀Ⰰ 戀愀猀琀攀 琀栀攀ഊwhole thing with the remaining beaten egg to give the pastry ਀愀 最漀漀搀 最漀氀搀 最氀漀猀猀⸀  䰀攀琀 琀栀攀 瀀礀攀 戀攀挀漀洀攀 焀甀椀琀攀 挀漀漀氀 戀攀昀漀爀攀ഊserving. ਀ഊA few notes: For the pork pye, trim picnic shoulder to bite ਀猀椀稀攀搀 最漀戀戀攀琀猀Ⰰ 椀渀挀氀甀搀椀渀最 昀愀琀 ⠀戀甀琀 渀漀琀 猀欀椀渀 漀爀 最爀椀猀琀氀攀⤀⸀  匀攀愀猀漀渀ഊwith fresh rubbed sage, basil, salt and pepper; maybe some ਀爀漀猀攀洀愀爀礀 漀爀 最愀氀椀渀最愀氀攀 椀昀 礀漀甀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀 琀愀猀琀攀⤀⸀  䰀攀愀瘀攀 愀 㔀挀洀 ⠀㈀∀⤀ 栀漀氀攀ഊin the top crust to let out steam and to pour in some reduced ਀猀琀漀挀欀 椀昀 礀漀甀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 昀椀氀氀 琀栀攀 瀀礀攀 愀昀琀攀爀 椀琀 挀漀洀攀猀 漀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀⸀ഊYou can use leftover paste/dough to ornament the lid with ਀昀氀漀眀攀爀猀 漀爀 栀攀爀愀氀搀椀挀 挀爀椀琀琀攀爀猀⸀  䤀琀 椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 攀愀猀礀 琀漀 搀漀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 攀氀愀戀漀爀愀琀攀ഊsculpture as long as you do it in high relief and not freestanding. ਀䈀愀猀琀攀 氀椀戀攀爀愀氀氀礀 眀椀琀栀 戀攀愀琀攀渀 攀最最 愀渀搀 甀猀攀 昀漀椀氀 琀攀渀琀猀 琀漀 欀攀攀瀀 椀琀 昀爀漀洀ഊbrowning unevenly. For the less adventuresome, I suggest using ਀愀 氀愀爀最攀 猀瀀爀椀渀最昀漀爀洀 琀漀 洀漀氀搀 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 愀渀搀ഊsides must still be thick so as not to fall apart from the weight of ਀琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 爀攀氀攀愀猀攀 椀琀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀漀爀洀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 椀猀 渀漀琀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 洀攀琀栀漀搀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀 䤀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 瀀礀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 爀愀椀猀攀搀ഊby the coil method in period. I would think they had some kind ਀漀昀 挀氀愀礀 瀀漀琀琀攀爀礀 昀漀爀洀猀 琀栀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 愀猀 琀栀攀礀 洀愀搀攀 琀栀攀猀攀 焀甀椀琀攀 爀攀焀甀氀愀爀氀礀Ⰰഊwhereas a special form for our ocassional use is not very ਀瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀愀氀⸀  吀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀 愀爀攀 琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀愀氀 琀漀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 挀漀漀欀攀爀礀Ⰰഊallegedly back to the 14th century. Of late, the English have been ਀猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀椀渀最 栀愀氀昀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀愀爀搀 眀椀琀栀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 琀栀漀甀最栀⸀  吀栀攀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀ഊrecipe for Melton Mowbray Pyes supposedly has its roots in 14th c. ਀䄀爀甀渀搀攀氀 䌀愀猀琀氀攀⸀  倀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 漀甀爀 氀椀猀琀 洀攀洀戀攀爀猀 愀挀爀漀猀猀 琀栀攀 瀀漀渀搀ഊcould see if they can find a period source from there? ਀䠀愀瘀攀 昀甀渀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀椀渀最℀ഊ ਀䄀欀椀洀 夀愀爀漀猀氀愀瘀椀挀栀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:48:30 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䨀攀昀昀 䜀攀搀渀攀礀∀ 㰀䨀䜀攀搀渀攀礀 愀琀 搀椀挀琀愀瀀栀漀渀攀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC -Mus, Brei and confusion ਀ഊAdamantius (long may he wave) did write: ਀㸀 伀栀Ⰰ 搀攀昀椀渀椀琀攀氀礀℀ 䄀 琀攀爀爀椀渀攀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 椀猀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 洀愀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 爀愀眀 洀攀愀琀Ⰰഊ> etc., packed into an earthenware pot/mold, and baked, while a mortrews ਀㸀 椀猀Ⰰ 愀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 䤀 欀渀漀眀Ⰰ 椀渀瘀愀爀椀愀戀氀礀 洀愀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 洀椀渀挀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀漀甀渀搀攀搀Ⰰഊ> previously cooked meat, then thickened with bread or other starchy ਀㸀 猀琀甀昀昀⸀ ഊ ਀䠀攀椀愀琀琀 栀愀猀 愀 䌀愀甀搀漀渀 漀昀 䈀攀攀昀 椀渀 愀渀 ∀伀爀搀椀渀愀渀挀攀 漀昀 倀漀琀琀愀最攀∀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 爀攀愀搀猀ഊas a minced beef mixture, which is molded, and cooked in a "Coffin". ਀ഊ> As for the idea of mortrews being molded, it's a nice idea, and ਀㸀 洀愀欀攀猀 猀攀渀猀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 栀漀眀 洀甀挀栀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 搀漀 礀漀甀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 栀愀瘀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀椀猀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀ഊ> being done? It occurs to me that unless you have a recipe or a specific ਀㸀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 洀漀爀琀爀攀眀猀 椀渀 挀漀渀渀攀挀琀椀漀渀 眀椀琀栀 洀漀氀搀猀Ⰰ 愀 昀攀愀猀琀 搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 漀爀ഊ> some such (which you may actually have, for all I know), it would be ਀㸀 栀愀爀搀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀愀琀 猀琀爀漀渀最 愀 挀愀猀攀 昀漀爀 椀琀⸀ 伀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 椀琀✀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 瀀攀爀昀攀挀琀氀礀ഊ> viable as speculation. ਀ഊMy personal theory is that they used Prebaked molded shells of Coffin dough ਀愀猀 戀愀欀椀渀最 搀椀猀栀攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 䐀漀甀最栀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 戀爀漀欀攀渀 漀昀昀 愀渀搀 最椀瘀攀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 ഊstaff, or given out with the crusts to the poor. ਀䌀攀爀琀愀椀渀氀礀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 昀漀爀挀攀洀攀愀琀 琀礀瀀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 戀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀搀 椀渀 挀漀昀昀椀渀猀ഊbut dont otherwise read like pie recipes. I think that it is likely that they ਀甀猀攀搀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 搀漀甀最栀 愀 氀漀琀 氀椀欀攀 眀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 戀愀欀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀氀甀洀椀渀甀洀 昀漀椀氀 琀漀搀愀礀Ⰰഊas a disposible dish or dish liner to aid cleanup. ਀ഊFWIW, a hard coffin shell, infused with meat juices, egg, and fat would ਀戀攀 搀愀渀搀礀 搀漀最 昀愀爀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 愀 琀栀爀椀昀琀礀 栀漀甀猀攀栀漀氀搀 眀漀甀氀搀 昀椀渀搀 愀 眀愀礀 甀猀攀 ഊthem, without waste. ਀ഊbrandu ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㌀ 伀挀琀 ㈀　　㄀ ㄀㜀㨀㌀㤀㨀㐀㠀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: johnna holloway ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Tur-duc-kin Q and A ਀ഊ ਀ഊBear most ably answered the query about pies and ਀琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 瀀椀攀⸀ 伀渀攀 洀椀最栀琀 欀攀攀瀀 椀渀 洀椀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀ഊtoday tend to call open-faced (single crust) fruit pies ਀∀琀愀爀琀猀∀⸀ 圀攀 栀攀爀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 唀匀䄀 猀琀椀氀氀 挀愀氀氀 琀栀攀洀 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 搀攀猀瀀椀琀攀ഊthe foodie craze of the last 20 years where fancied up ਀漀渀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀琀愀爀琀猀∀⸀ഊ ਀䨀漀栀渀渀愀攀 氀氀礀渀 䰀攀眀椀猀  䨀漀栀渀渀愀 䠀漀氀氀漀眀愀礀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." ਀吀漀㨀 ∀✀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最✀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊSubject: Dough was ([Sca-cooks] za'atar seeds and more) ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㄀㜀 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　㄀ ㄀㘀㨀　㜀㨀　㈀ ⴀ　㘀　　ഊ ਀䤀昀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 猀愀礀猀 ∀琀愀欀攀 搀漀甀最栀∀ 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 ∀琀愀欀攀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ∀ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀ഊsay that it is a flour and water dough possibly with a little salt. It ਀洀椀最栀琀 愀氀猀漀 戀攀 愀 猀漀甀爀搀漀甀最栀 琀漀 栀攀氀瀀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 瀀甀昀昀 甀瀀 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 昀爀椀攀搀⸀ഊHowever, an unleavened dough will work fine. I tend to use a German recipe ਀昀漀爀 琀栀椀猀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 琀栀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀䤀 愀洀 漀昀 琀栀攀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 搀漀甀最栀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀琀椀昀昀⸀  吀栀攀 攀最最ഊand the oil will shorten and soften it. I would try 1 egg and 1 tablespoon ਀漀昀 漀椀氀 琀漀 ㄀ⴀ㄀ ㄀⼀㈀ 挀甀瀀猀 漀昀 搀漀甀最栀 愀猀 愀 猀琀愀爀琀椀渀最 瀀漀椀渀琀⸀  䤀 洀椀最栀琀 愀氀猀漀 猀甀最最攀猀琀ഊusing soft flour to reduce the gluten. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊJust for reference, here's the German dough recipe from Sabina Welserin I ਀琀攀渀搀 琀漀 甀猀攀 愀猀 愀 琀栀椀渀氀礀 爀漀氀氀攀搀 眀爀愀瀀瀀攀爀㨀ഊ ਀㘀㄀ 吀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 愀氀氀 猀栀愀瀀攀搀 瀀椀攀猀ഊ ਀吀愀欀攀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 最攀琀Ⰰ 愀戀漀甀琀 琀眀漀 栀愀渀搀昀甀氀猀Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 栀漀眀ഊlarge or small you would have the pie. Put it on the table and with a knife ਀猀琀椀爀 椀渀 琀眀漀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀愀氀琀⸀ 倀甀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 椀渀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀愀渀 愀渀搀 愀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀ഊfat the size of two good eggs, let it all dissolve together and boil. ਀䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 瀀漀甀爀 椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 漀渀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 愀 猀琀爀漀渀最 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀ഊwork it well, however you feel is right. If it is summer, one must take meat ਀戀爀漀琀栀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀欀椀洀洀椀渀最猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀ഊbroth. When the dough is kneaded, then make of it a round ball and draw it ਀漀甀琀 眀攀氀氀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 昀椀渀最攀爀猀 漀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 爀漀氀氀椀渀最 瀀椀渀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊmiddle a raised area remains, then let it chill in the cold. Afterwards ਀猀栀愀瀀攀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 愀猀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀攀搀 漀甀琀 琀漀 礀漀甀⸀ 䄀氀猀漀 爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀ഊcover and roll it out into a cover and take water and spread it over the top ਀漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀瘀攀爀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀漀爀洀攀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 猀栀攀氀氀 愀渀搀 樀漀椀渀 椀琀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀ഊwell with the fingers. Leave a small hole. And see that it is pressed ਀琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 挀漀洀攀 漀瀀攀渀⸀ 䈀氀漀眀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀洀愀氀氀 栀漀氀攀 眀栀椀挀栀ഊyou have left, then the cover will lift itself up. Then quickly press the ਀栀漀氀攀 挀氀漀猀攀搀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 瀀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀⸀ 匀瀀爀椀渀欀氀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 椀渀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀栀ഊbeforehand. Take care that the oven is properly heated, then it will be a ਀瀀爀攀琀琀礀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 吀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 愀氀氀 猀栀愀瀀攀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀椀攀猀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 洀愀渀渀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀㸀 䰀愀猀琀氀礀Ⰰ  挀愀渀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀攀氀瀀 洀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 搀漀甀最栀 洀愀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 攀最最 愀渀搀 漀椀氀㼀  䤀琀ഊ> will wrap a filling and be fried, then covered with honey and sugar. The ਀㸀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 猀愀礀猀 琀愀欀攀 愀 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀 欀渀攀攀搀 椀渀 攀最最 愀渀搀 最漀漀搀 猀眀攀攀琀 漀椀氀⸀ഊ> Does this mean a water and flour dough, then the egg and oil or just flour, ਀㸀 攀最最 愀渀搀 漀椀氀⸀ഊ> Recipe is 1520 Catalan. ਀㸀ഊ> Kay ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䈀愀爀戀愀爀愀 䈀攀渀猀漀渀∀ 㰀瘀漀砀㠀 愀琀 洀椀渀搀猀瀀爀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊTo: ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 倀椀攀 䌀爀甀猀琀ഊDate: Tue, 28 May 2002 18:16:04 -0400 ਀ഊ ਀㸀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 愀猀欀攀搀 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 䤀✀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 瀀愀猀猀 漀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 最爀漀甀瀀⸀ഊ> "One of these days I will do some food entries. So tell me, how ਀㸀 搀漀 礀漀甀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀㼀  圀愀猀 琀栀愀琀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 椀琀攀洀 攀瘀攀爀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 搀漀眀渀㼀∀ഊ> ਀㸀 䤀猀 䐀椀最戀礀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 瀀氀愀挀攀 琀漀 爀攀挀漀洀洀攀渀搀Ⰰ 漀爀 椀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀㼀ഊ ਀䤀 愀洀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀 琀栀愀琀 最漀漀搀 最攀渀琀氀攀猀 猀甀挀栀 愀猀 䈀攀愀爀 眀椀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 洀愀渀礀 洀漀爀攀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀猀Ⰰഊbut the one that sprang to my mind was in Sabina Welserin - German 1553. I ਀栀愀瘀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀眀漀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀愀渀甀猀挀爀椀瀀琀 愀渀搀 䤀 愀洀 渀漀琀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀 琀栀攀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 椀渀ഊintent between them. I am more inclined towards 70 for normal pies and ਀琀愀爀琀猀⸀ 㘀㄀ 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 戀攀 洀漀爀攀 昀漀爀 愀 昀爀攀攀砀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 挀漀昀昀椀渀 猀琀礀氀攀 瀀椀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀 挀漀甀氀搀ഊbe wrong. ਀ഊ61 To make a pastry dough for all shaped pies ਀吀愀欀攀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 最攀琀Ⰰ 愀戀漀甀琀 琀眀漀 栀愀渀搀昀甀氀猀Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 栀漀眀ഊlarge or small you would have the pie. Put it on the table and with a knife ਀猀琀椀爀 椀渀 琀眀漀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀愀氀琀⸀ 倀甀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 椀渀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀愀渀 愀渀搀 愀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀ഊfat the size of two good eggs, let it all dissolve together and boil. ਀䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 瀀漀甀爀 椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 漀渀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 愀 猀琀爀漀渀最 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀ഊwork it well, however you feel is right. If it is summer, one must take meat ਀戀爀漀琀栀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀欀椀洀洀椀渀最猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀ഊbroth. When the dough is kneaded, then make of it a round ball and draw it ਀漀甀琀 眀攀氀氀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 昀椀渀最攀爀猀 漀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 爀漀氀氀椀渀最 瀀椀渀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊmiddle a raised area remains, then let it chill in the cold. Afterwards ਀猀栀愀瀀攀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 愀猀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀攀搀 漀甀琀 琀漀 礀漀甀⸀ 䄀氀猀漀 爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀ഊcover and roll it out into a cover and take water and spread it over the top ਀漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀瘀攀爀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀漀爀洀攀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 猀栀攀氀氀 愀渀搀 樀漀椀渀 椀琀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀ഊwell with the fingers. Leave a small hole. And see that it is pressed ਀琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 挀漀洀攀 漀瀀攀渀⸀ 䈀氀漀眀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀洀愀氀氀 栀漀氀攀 眀栀椀挀栀ഊyou have left, then the cover will lift itself up. Then quickly press the ਀栀漀氀攀 挀氀漀猀攀搀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 瀀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀⸀ 匀瀀爀椀渀欀氀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 椀渀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀栀ഊbeforehand. Take care that the oven is properly heated, then it will be a ਀瀀爀攀琀琀礀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 吀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 愀氀氀 猀栀愀瀀攀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀椀攀猀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 洀愀渀渀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀ഊ70 A tart with plums, which can be dried or fresh ਀䰀攀琀 琀栀攀洀 挀漀漀欀 戀攀昀漀爀攀栀愀渀搀 椀渀 眀椀渀攀 愀渀搀 猀琀爀愀椀渀 琀栀攀洀 愀渀搀 琀愀欀攀 攀最最猀Ⰰ 挀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀 愀渀搀ഊsugar. Bake the dough for the tart. That is made like so: take two eggs and ਀戀攀愀琀 琀栀攀洀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 猀琀椀爀 昀氀漀甀爀 琀栀攀爀攀椀渀 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀 戀攀挀漀洀攀猀 愀 琀栀椀挀欀 搀漀甀最栀⸀ഊPour it on the table and work it well, until it is ready. After that take ਀猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 洀漀爀攀 琀栀愀渀 栀愀氀昀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀 爀漀氀氀 椀琀 椀渀琀漀 愀 昀氀愀琀 挀愀欀攀 愀猀 眀椀搀攀 愀猀ഊyou would have your tart. Afterwards pour the plums on it and roll out after ਀琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 挀爀甀猀琀 愀渀搀 挀甀琀 椀琀 甀瀀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀 礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀椀欀攀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 椀琀 漀渀ഊtop over the tart and press it together well and let it bake. So one makes ਀琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 愀 琀愀爀琀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 琀爀椀攀搀 椀琀 礀攀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 渀攀攀搀 琀漀 椀昀 䤀 愀洀 最漀椀渀最 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀 䌀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀 琀愀爀琀ഊfrom scratch. Now if I can only figure out what size/shape it might be. ਀ഊGlad Tidings, ਀匀攀爀攀渀愀 搀愀 刀椀瘀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:15:18 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䈀愀爀戀愀爀愀 䈀攀渀猀漀渀∀ 㰀瘀漀砀㠀 愀琀 洀椀渀搀猀瀀爀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Pie Crusts ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 洀愀搀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 愀渀搀 猀甀挀栀 愀渀搀 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀 栀愀瘀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀 栀愀搀 愀渀礀ഊproblem - you can probably chalk it up to luck. That being said, I have a ਀挀爀甀猀琀 爀攀挀椀瀀椀琀 琀栀愀琀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 洀甀挀栀 琀愀欀攀猀 愀氀氀 漀昀 琀栀攀 琀漀甀挀栀礀 昀攀攀氀礀 愀猀瀀攀挀琀猀 漀甀琀 漀昀ഊit and hot hands do not enter into the picture: ਀ഊ> From Sabina Welserin #61 To make a pastry dough for all shaped pies ਀吀愀欀攀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 最攀琀Ⰰ 愀戀漀甀琀 琀眀漀 栀愀渀搀昀甀氀猀Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 栀漀眀ഊlarge or small you would have the pie. Put it on the table and with a knife ਀猀琀椀爀 椀渀 琀眀漀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀愀氀琀⸀ 倀甀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 椀渀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀愀渀 愀渀搀 愀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀ഊfat the size of two good eggs, let it all dissolve together and boil. ਀䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 瀀漀甀爀 椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 漀渀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 愀 猀琀爀漀渀最 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀ഊwork it well, however you feel is right. If it is summer, one must take meat ਀戀爀漀琀栀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀欀椀洀洀椀渀最猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀ഊbroth. When the dough is kneaded, then make of it a round ball and draw it ਀漀甀琀 眀攀氀氀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 昀椀渀最攀爀猀 漀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 爀漀氀氀椀渀最 瀀椀渀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊmiddle a raised area remains, then let it chill in the cold. ... ਀䴀礀 椀渀琀攀爀瀀爀攀琀愀琀椀漀渀㨀ഊ3 C - Flour ਀㄀ 琀 ⴀ 䬀漀猀栀攀爀 猀愀氀琀ഊ2 - Eggs, beaten ਀㄀⼀㌀ 䌀 ⴀ 圀愀琀攀爀ഊ1/3 +1/4 C - Lard ਀ഊMeasure flour into a goodly size bowl and add salt. Stir together with a ਀欀渀椀昀攀⸀ 䌀爀愀挀欀 攀最最猀 椀渀琀漀 愀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 戀漀眀氀 愀渀搀 戀攀愀琀 洀漀搀攀爀愀琀攀氀礀Ⰰ 愀搀搀 攀最最猀 琀漀ഊflour mixture and cut together with a knife until you all egg has been ਀愀戀猀漀爀戀攀搀 愀渀搀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 挀爀甀洀戀氀礀 琀攀砀琀甀爀攀搀 昀氀漀甀爀⸀ 䤀渀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 猀愀甀挀攀瀀愀渀 挀漀洀戀椀渀攀ഊwater and lard, melt and bring to a boil. Add boiling lard mixture to bowl ਀愀渀搀 挀漀洀戀椀渀攀 甀渀琀椀氀 眀攀氀氀 洀椀砀攀搀 愀渀搀 挀漀漀氀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 栀愀渀搀氀攀⸀ 吀甀爀渀 漀甀琀 漀渀琀漀 琀愀戀氀攀ഊand knead a bit, adding flour if the dough is sticky or greasy. Pat dough ਀椀渀琀漀 愀 搀椀猀欀 猀栀愀瀀攀 愀渀搀 眀爀愀瀀 眀椀琀栀 瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀 ⴀ 瀀氀愀挀攀 椀渀 爀攀昀爀椀最攀爀愀琀漀爀⸀ 䄀氀氀漀眀 琀漀ഊcool for at least an hour. Roll out on a well floured surface. This makes ਀攀渀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 琀眀漀 琀愀爀琀猀 漀爀 漀渀攀 挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀 琀愀爀琀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀猀漀 洀愀搀攀 琀栀椀猀 猀甀戀戀椀渀最 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 氀愀爀搀 愀渀搀 䤀 最漀 眀椀琀栀 ㈀⼀㌀ 䌀 漀昀ഊshortening. The resulting dough is easier to work with than the lard based ਀搀漀甀最栀⸀ 吀栀攀 氀愀爀搀 戀愀猀攀搀 搀漀甀最栀 挀愀渀 戀攀 愀 戀椀琀 昀椀搀搀氀礀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 爀漀氀氀 椀琀 漀甀琀Ⰰ 椀昀 椀琀ഊgets too warm it starts tearing and sticking. I have only had this problem ਀眀栀攀渀 洀愀欀椀渀最 洀愀渀礀 猀洀愀氀氀 琀愀爀琀猀 漀甀琀 漀昀 愀 搀漀甀戀氀攀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀椀攀⸀ 吀漀 昀椀砀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀ഊtaken to making sure that the dough is seperated into single crust disks and ਀欀攀瀀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀爀椀搀最攀 甀渀琀椀氀 渀攀攀搀攀搀⸀ 䄀渀搀 椀昀 椀琀 最攀琀猀 琀漀漀 眀愀爀洀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 愀洀 眀漀爀欀椀渀最ഊwith it I just re-wrap it and chuck it back into the fridge and work ਀眀椀琀栀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 搀椀猀欀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 琀栀椀渀最 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 椀昀 椀琀 椀猀 愀氀氀漀眀攀搀 琀漀 猀琀愀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀爀椀搀最攀ഊfor more than a couple of hours the dough gets tough. I once kept it ਀漀瘀攀爀渀椀最栀琀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 䤀 昀漀爀洀攀搀 琀栀攀 渀攀砀琀 搀愀礀 眀愀猀 瘀攀爀礀 琀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀ഊthe nice flavor that it does initially. Conversely, once the crust is ਀戀愀欀攀搀 椀琀 欀攀攀瀀猀 瘀攀爀礀 眀攀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀䤀昀 礀漀甀 昀攀攀氀 氀椀欀攀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 氀攀琀 洀攀 欀渀漀眀 栀漀眀 礀漀甀爀 挀爀甀猀琀 挀漀洀攀猀 ഊout and if my instructions are confusing in any way. ਀ഊHope this helps. ਀䜀氀愀搀 吀椀搀椀渀最猀ⰀഊSerena da Riva ਀ഊ> Samrah [or anyone else for that matter]: I have never managed to learn ਀㸀 琀栀攀 䐀愀漀 漀昀 倀椀攀 䌀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 洀漀爀攀 漀昀 愀渀 愀爀琀 琀栀愀渀 愀 洀攀爀攀 挀爀愀昀琀⸀  ഊ> Could you teach me? ਀㸀ഊ> Humbly, Selene C. ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ 　㘀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㌀ ㈀㈀㨀㔀㠀㨀㈀㠀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Ron Carnegie ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 倀椀攀 䌀爀甀猀琀猀 眀愀猀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀崀 䌀漀漀欀椀攀猀 眀愀猀 栀攀氀氀漀 琀栀攀爀攀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊahrenshav> Neither have I, because you have to have cold ਀愀栀爀攀渀猀栀愀瘀㸀 栀愀渀搀猀 琀 洀愀欀攀 瀀爀漀瀀攀爀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 愀渀搀 洀椀渀攀 愀爀攀ഊahrenshav> always too hot and will melt the butter, which is ਀愀栀爀攀渀猀栀愀瘀㸀 愀 渀漀ⴀ渀漀⸀ഊahrenshav> ਀愀栀爀攀渀猀栀愀瘀㸀 䠀甀攀琀琀攀ഊ ਀     夀漀甀 挀愀渀 洀愀欀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 眀椀琀栀 栀漀琀 栀愀渀搀猀⸀  䤀 甀猀攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 愀 瘀攀爀礀ഊhot high humidity kitchen! The tric is to work quickly. Do not ਀漀瘀攀爀眀漀爀欀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀  䤀 甀猀攀搀 椀挀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀 ⠀愀 琀爀椀挀欀 䤀 瀀椀挀欀攀搀 甀瀀 昀爀漀洀ഊa visitor). Not period but effective. Most people think they are ਀栀愀爀搀攀爀 琀栀攀渀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 愀渀搀 昀甀猀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀洀 琀漀 洀甀挀栀⸀  吀栀攀 昀甀猀猀椀渀最 搀攀猀琀爀漀礀猀ഊthem. ਀ഊRanald deBalinhard, ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ 㜀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㌀ 　㘀㨀㔀　㨀㈀㔀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Avraham haRofeh of Sudentur" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 倀椀攀 䌀爀甀猀琀猀 眀愀猀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀漀漀欀椀攀猀 眀愀猀 栀攀氀漀 琀栀攀爀攀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" ਀ഊ> Samrah [or anyone else for that matter]: I have never managed to learn ਀㸀 琀栀攀 䐀愀漀 漀昀 倀椀攀 䌀爀猀琀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 洀漀爀攀 漀昀 愀渀 愀爀琀 琀栀愀渀 愀 洀攀爀攀 挀爀愀昀琀⸀  ഊ> Could you teach me? ਀ഊ1. Keep everything COLD COLD COLD. ਀㈀⸀ 唀猀攀 礀漀甀爀 昀漀漀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀 琀漀 眀漀爀欀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⼀猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最⼀氀愀爀搀 ⴀ 甀猀攀ഊ1-second pulses, until the chunks of fat are the size of peas. ਀㌀⸀ 唀猀攀 椀挀攀搀 眀愀琀攀爀⸀ 唀猀攀 琀栀攀 䴀䤀一䤀䴀唀䴀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀礀 琀漀 戀爀椀渀最 ഊthe mass together - more water = more gluten, which is tough. ਀㐀⸀ 䐀漀 一伀吀 漀瘀攀爀眀漀爀欀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 琀漀 氀攀愀瘀攀 猀漀洀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 戀攀栀椀渀搀 ഊthan to overwork the dough. ਀㔀⸀ 唀猀攀 愀 氀椀最栀琀 栀愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 搀甀猀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀挀漀甀渀琀攀爀 琀漀 爀漀氀氀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀⸀ഊ6. Use a French rolling pin, it gives you more control. ਀㜀⸀ 圀栀攀渀 椀琀✀猀 琀栀攀 爀椀最栀琀 猀椀稀攀Ⰰ 搀甀猀琀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 䰀䤀䜀䠀吀䰀夀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 爀漀氀氀 椀琀ഊonto your pin to carry it to the pie plate. Brush the excess flour away with ਀愀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 戀爀甀栀⼀瀀愀椀渀琀 戀爀甀猀栀 漀渀挀攀 椀琀✀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀愀渀⸀ഊ ਀䠀漀瀀攀 琀栀攀猀攀 琀椀瀀猀 栀攀氀瀀⸀ഊ ਀䄀瘀爀愀栀愀洀ഊ******************************************************* ਀刀攀戀 䄀瘀爀愀栀愀洀 栀愀刀漀昀攀栀 漀昀 匀甀搀攀渀琀甀爀ഊ (mka Randy Goldberg MD) ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ 㠀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㌀ 　㤀㨀㔀㈀㨀㔀㤀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Generys ferch Ednuyed" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 倀椀攀 䌀爀甀猀琀猀 眀愀猀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀漀漀欀椀攀猀 眀愀猀 栀攀氀氀漀 琀栀攀爀攀ഊTo: "'Cooks within the SCA'" ਀ഊ> Samrah [or anyone else for that matter]: I have never managed to learn ਀㸀 琀栀攀 䐀愀漀 漀昀 倀椀攀 䌀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 洀漀爀攀 漀昀 愀渀 愀爀琀 琀栀愀渀 愀 洀攀爀攀 挀爀愀昀琀⸀  ഊ> Could you teach me? ਀㸀ഊ> Humbly, Selene C. ਀ഊSelene, ਀ഊMy tricks for insuring flaky pie crusts are some that I got from a book ਀挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀䈀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 匀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 䘀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 䔀最最猀∀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 洀礀 昀愀瘀漀爀椀琀攀 洀甀渀搀愀渀攀 ഊdessert cookbook. They are: ਀ഊ1. Stick your pastry marble and rolling pin, also pref. marble, in the ਀昀爀攀攀稀攀爀 眀栀椀氀攀 洀愀欀椀渀最 礀漀甀爀 搀漀甀最栀⸀ഊ ਀㈀⸀  唀猀攀 椀挀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 氀椀焀甀椀搀 椀渀 猀愀椀搀 搀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 愀氀猀漀Ⰰ 愀搀搀 愀 琀攀愀猀瀀漀漀渀 漀爀 猀漀ഊof vinegar per batch (top and bottom crust for a pie worth). This prevents ਀最氀甀琀攀渀 昀爀漀洀 昀漀爀洀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀猀 椀洀瀀攀爀挀攀瀀琀椀戀氀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀渀愀氀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀ഊ ਀㌀⸀  䌀栀椀氀氀 礀漀甀爀 栀愀渀搀猀 椀渀 椀挀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀猀 洀甀挀栀 愀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 眀漀爀欀椀渀最 ഊwith dough. ਀ഊ(All these "chill everything" steps keep the butter from melting, so it ਀挀愀渀 洀愀欀攀 昀氀愀欀礀 戀椀琀猀 氀愀琀攀爀⸀⸀⸀⤀ഊ ਀䜀攀渀攀爀礀猀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 02:13:43 -0700 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀愀洀攀猀 倀爀攀猀挀漀琀琀 㰀瀀爀攀猀挀漀琀樀 愀琀 琀攀氀甀猀瀀氀愀渀攀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] torte vs. tart ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䄀琀 　㄀㨀　　 ⴀ　㘀　　 ㈀　　㌀ⴀ㄀㄀ⴀ㌀　Ⰰ 匀琀攀昀愀渀 氀椀 刀漀甀猀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>> Indeed, my wife has made me suspicious that a lot of the "tart" recipes ਀㸀㸀 椀渀 琀栀攀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀猀 漀昀 匀愀戀椀渀愀 圀攀氀猀攀爀椀渀 ⠀愀渀搀 䜀甀琀攀爀 匀瀀椀猀攀㼀⤀ 爀攀愀氀氀礀 䄀刀䔀ഊ>> "torte" and not "tarts" at all... ਀㸀 伀欀Ⰰ 猀漀 眀栀愀琀 椀猀 琀栀攀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 愀 ∀琀漀爀琀攀∀ 愀渀搀 愀 ∀琀愀爀琀∀㼀 吀愀爀琀猀 ഊ> are pies without a top pastry shell or even lacing, right? ਀ഊThat's probably going to depend very much on the country and / or ਀挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 挀漀渀猀甀氀琀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀✀猀 渀漀 ✀爀椀最栀琀✀ 愀渀猀眀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀匀椀渀挀攀 眀攀✀爀攀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 搀攀愀氀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 挀甀椀猀椀渀攀 眀栀攀渀 眀攀 琀愀氀欀ഊabout historical food, I tend to go with Larousse Gastronomique ਀⠀㄀㤀㘀㄀⤀ 愀猀 戀攀椀渀最 琀栀攀 洀漀猀琀 琀礀瀀椀挀愀氀氀礀 ✀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀✀ 猀漀甀爀挀攀 漀昀 洀漀搀攀爀渀ഊcooking terms. ਀ഊThe 'tart' in Larousse is exclusively sweet, and comes in versions ਀眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 甀瀀瀀攀爀 挀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 甀瀀瀀攀爀 挀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 氀愀琀琀椀挀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 ✀琀漀甀爀琀攀✀ 椀渀 䰀愀爀漀甀猀猀攀 椀猀 愀 琀眀漀ⴀ挀爀甀猀琀 猀愀瘀漀甀爀礀 洀愀椀渀 搀椀猀栀⸀  吀栀攀ഊauthor says "There are also sweet tourtes, but these are really ਀琀愀爀琀猀⸀⸀⸀⸀∀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 ✀琀漀爀琀攀✀Ⰰ 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 挀爀攀愀琀甀爀攀 攀渀琀椀爀攀氀礀Ⰰ 椀猀 愀 ⠀䜀攀爀洀愀渀椀挀⤀ 挀愀欀攀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀漀爀瘀愀氀搀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:05:16 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] torte vs. tart ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀㸀㸀 䤀渀搀攀攀搀Ⰰ 洀礀 眀椀昀攀 栀愀猀 洀愀搀攀 洀攀 猀甀猀瀀椀挀椀漀甀猀 琀栀愀琀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ∀琀愀爀琀∀ 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀ഊ>> in the translations of Sabina Welserin (and Guter Spise?) really ARE ਀㸀㸀 ∀琀漀爀琀攀∀ 愀渀搀 渀漀琀 ∀琀愀爀琀猀∀ 愀琀 愀氀氀⸀⸀⸀ഊ> Ok, so what is the difference between a "torte" and a "tart"? Tarts are ਀㸀 瀀椀攀猀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 愀 琀漀瀀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 猀栀攀氀氀 漀爀 攀瘀攀渀 氀愀挀椀渀最Ⰰ 爀椀最栀琀㼀ഊ> ਀㸀 匀琀攀昀愀渀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 椀渀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀⸀  ∀吀漀爀琀攀∀ 挀愀渀 洀攀愀渀 瀀椀攀Ⰰ 昀氀愀渀Ⰰ 琀愀爀琀 漀爀 愀ഊflat cake. You start getting specific when you modify the noun with a ਀瀀爀攀昀椀砀Ⰰ 愀猀 椀渀 ∀䰀椀渀稀攀爀琀漀爀琀攀⸀∀  吀漀 洀愀欀攀 洀愀琀琀攀爀猀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀渀昀甀猀椀渀最Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 琀栀攀ഊprefix is used to describe two different things. "Obsttorte" is used to ਀搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀 戀漀琀栀 琀愀爀琀猀 愀渀搀 昀氀愀渀猀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 椀琀 椀猀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀漀 搀爀漀瀀 琀栀攀 ∀伀戀猀琀∀ ഊwhen referring to a tart. ਀ഊAs near as I can tell, the derivation of all European forms of "tart" ਀䄀爀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 䰀愀琀椀渀 ∀琀漀爀琀愀∀ 洀攀愀渀椀渀最 ∀昀氀愀琀 挀愀欀攀⸀∀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:39:22 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀倀栀椀氀 吀爀漀礀 ⼀ 䜀⸀ 吀愀挀椀琀甀猀 䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀∀ഊ ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 匀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 挀爀甀猀琀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊAlso sprach Nancy Kiel: ਀㸀䤀✀瘀攀 栀愀搀 最漀漀搀 氀甀挀欀 甀猀椀渀最 ㄀㠀琀栀 ☀ ㄀㤀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 爀攀挀攀椀瀀琀猀 ⠀栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 栀愀搀 ഊ>occasion to research a period standing crust). They called for ਀㸀戀漀椀氀椀渀最 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 ☀ 眀愀琀攀爀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 欀渀攀愀搀椀渀最⸀ഊ>Also, I thought a "standing crust" meant more specifically a ਀㸀挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀氀礀 挀氀漀猀攀搀 瀀椀攀 昀漀爀洀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 椀渀琀攀渀搀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 攀愀琀攀渀⸀ഊ ਀䄀 猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀 漀渀攀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀搀攀瀀攀渀搀攀渀琀氀礀 漀昀 愀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀渀 漀爀 瀀愀琀攀 洀漀氀搀⸀ ഊIt... stands. Modern ones, at least, are intended to be eaten, as in ਀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 瀀漀爀欀 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 猀漀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀伀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀渀最猀 愀戀漀甀琀 栀漀琀ⴀ眀愀琀攀爀 搀漀甀最栀猀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀椀攀 搀漀甀最栀猀 ഊseem to occasionally, or maybe often, call for egg yolks. (See Ein ਀䈀甀漀挀栀 嘀漀渀 䜀甀琀攀爀 匀瀀椀猀攀Ⰰ 䐀椀最戀礀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀⤀ 夀漀甀 挀愀渀✀琀 戀漀椀氀 琀栀攀 氀椀焀甀椀搀 琀漀 愀搀搀 ഊto your pastry if the liquid is egg yolk, so even though there's a ਀氀漀琀 漀昀 琀愀氀欀 愀戀漀甀琀 爀愀椀猀椀渀最 愀 挀漀昀昀椀渀Ⰰ 琀栀攀猀攀 愀爀攀 瀀爀攀猀甀洀愀戀氀礀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 ഊcold pastry. Or at least, the small bits of evidence we have would ਀猀攀攀洀 琀漀 瀀漀椀渀琀 琀栀愀琀 眀愀礀Ⰰ 椀昀 渀漀琀 挀漀渀挀氀甀猀椀瘀攀氀礀⸀ഊ ਀䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:38:10 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀 㰀攀搀漀甀愀爀搀 愀琀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Standing crust ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 䘀攀戀 ㄀㜀Ⰰ ㈀　　㐀Ⰰ 愀琀 㘀㨀㔀㘀 倀䴀Ⰰ 一愀渀挀礀 䬀椀攀氀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> I've had good luck using 18th & 19th century receipts (haven't had ਀㸀 漀挀挀愀猀椀漀渀 琀漀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 挀爀甀猀琀⤀⸀  吀栀攀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 昀漀爀 ഊ> boiling the fat & water together, and a lot of kneading. ਀㸀 䄀氀猀漀Ⰰ 䤀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 愀 ∀猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 挀爀甀猀琀∀ 洀攀愀渀琀 洀漀爀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀愀氀氀礀 愀 ഊ> completely closed pie form, not intended to be eaten. Out of ਀㸀 挀甀爀椀漀甀猀椀琀礀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 爀攀挀攀椀瀀琀⼀椀搀攀愀 愀爀攀 礀漀甀 戀愀猀椀渀最 礀漀甀爀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀渀㼀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 挀氀漀猀攀猀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 最攀琀 琀漀 眀漀甀氀搀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 戀攀 昀爀漀洀 ∀䄀 ഊProper newe Booke of Cokerye": ਀∀吀漀 洀愀欀攀 猀栀漀爀琀 瀀愀攀猀琀 昀漀爀 琀愀爀琀攀⸀ 吀愀欀攀 昀礀渀攀 昀氀漀甀爀攀 愀渀搀 愀 挀甀爀猀攀礀 漀昀 昀愀礀爀攀 ഊwater and a dysche of swete butter and a lyttel saffron, and the ਀礀漀氀挀欀攀猀 漀昀 琀眀漀 攀最最攀猀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀 琀栀礀渀渀攀 愀渀搀 愀猀 琀攀渀搀攀爀 愀猀 礀攀 洀愀礀攀⸀∀ഊ ਀吀栀愀琀✀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀椀攀猀琀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 愀 猀栀漀爀琀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 䤀✀瘀攀 挀漀洀攀 ഊacross. In the same source is a recipe for meat pies which has a note ਀愀琀 琀栀攀 攀渀搀 猀琀愀琀椀渀最 ∀愀渀搀 礀昀 礀漀甀 眀礀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀愀攀猀琀 爀漀礀愀氀氀Ⰰ 琀愀欀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 ഊyolkes of egges and so tempre the flowre to make the paeste." ਀ഊReally though, I make no claim that what I made was period - the whole ਀琀漀瀀椀挀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 戀攀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀✀猀 瘀攀爀礀 栀愀爀搀 琀漀 琀栀漀爀漀甀最栀氀礀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀⸀  䤀 ഊwas basically trying to see what I could do with short crust in the way ਀漀昀 洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 猀攀爀瘀椀渀最 搀椀猀栀⸀ഊ ਀ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ਀  䔀搀漀甀愀爀搀 䠀愀氀椀搀愀椀  ⠀䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀⤀ഊ http://www.medievalcookery.com/ ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㈀㌀ 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㈀㨀㔀㈀㨀㔀㐀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Daniel Myers ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 䴀愀最愀稀椀渀攀 ⠀眀愀猀ऀ洀攀愀琀瀀愀猀琀椀攀猀愀渀搀ഊ theirlongevity) ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 䘀攀戀 ㈀㌀Ⰰ ㈀　　㐀Ⰰ 愀琀 ㄀㄀㨀㔀㐀 䄀䴀Ⰰ 瘀椀挀欀椀 猀栀愀眀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Well, the article does say that they experimented with the coffyn because ਀㸀 琀栀攀礀 昀氀琀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 漀渀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 甀渀瀀愀氀愀琀愀戀氀攀渀 愀渀搀 洀漀猀琀 氀椀欀攀氀礀ഊ> discarded after the filling was reached and consumed. I am going to write ਀㸀 琀漀 匀琀攀昀愀渀 爀椀最栀琀 渀漀眀 愀渀搀 最椀瘀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀礀渀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最⸀ഊ> Among the ingredients for the coffyns s 200 g of drippings. What is meant ਀㸀 戀礀 琀栀愀琀㼀  眀漀甀氀搀 琀栀椀猀 戀攀 搀爀椀瀀瀀椀渀最猀 昀爀漀洀 爀漀愀猀琀椀渀最 洀攀愀琀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 栀愀猀 戀攀挀漀洀攀 猀漀氀椀搀ഊ> at room temperature? I say that because in the recipe you are to put water ਀㸀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 搀爀椀瀀瀀椀渀最猀 椀渀琀漀 愀 猀愀甀挀攀瀀愀渀 愀渀搀 猀椀洀洀攀爀 甀渀琀椀氀 琀栀攀 搀爀椀瀀瀀椀渀最猀 洀攀氀琀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀ഊ> Ok okay, you are getting it all back asswards here, but for those of ਀㸀 礀漀甀 眀栀漀 洀愀礀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀漀甀爀挀攀㨀ഊ> ਀㸀 ∀吀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀猀 䠀愀爀氀攀椀愀渀 䴀匀⸀ ㈀㜀㤀Ⰰ 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀攀挀琀椀漀渀ഊ> titled 'Dyuerese Bake Metis,' as reproduced by indy Renfrow nin Take a ਀㸀 吀栀漀甀猀愀渀搀 䔀最最猀 漀爀 䴀漀爀攀⸀  䄀渀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 椀搀攀渀琀椀挀愀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 漀挀挀甀爀猀 椀渀 䠀愀爀氀攀椀愀渀 䴀匀⸀ഊ> 4016, as well as a number of similar recipes with titles such as 'Tarte de ਀㸀 挀栀愀爀攀✀ 愀洀搀 ✀䄀渀漀琀栀攀爀 洀愀渀攀爀攀 嬀漀昀 琀愀爀琀攀猀崀✀ 愀渀搀 ✀䐀漀甀挀攀琀琀攀猀✀ 椀渀 䴀匀⸀ ㈀㜀㤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊ Douce MS. " ਀ഊBelow are the relevant recipes from Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery ਀䈀漀漀欀猀⸀  䤀渀 琀栀攀洀 䤀 挀愀渀 昀椀渀搀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 琀漀 瀀爀攀ⴀ戀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀Ⰰ 琀漀ഊcoloring it with saffron and egg yolks, and to putting a top crust on ਀椀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 搀漀 渀漀琀 猀攀攀 愀渀礀 渀漀琀攀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀攀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 眀愀氀氀猀Ⰰഊwhether they were edible, or the ingredients or methods used for making ਀琀栀攀洀⸀ഊ ਀䄀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀渀礀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 漀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 琀漀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀 琀栀攀椀爀ഊmethods? I am concerned that the "hot liquid fat poured into flour" ਀眀愀礀 漀昀 愀欀椀渀最 愀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀 愀 ⠀爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀氀礀⤀ 洀漀搀攀爀渀 漀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀漀猀攀 昀爀漀洀 愀ഊfaulty source or assumption and is unintentionally being promoted as ਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀椀渀最 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 ⠀攀⸀最⸀ 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 椀琀✀猀ഊvery rustic looking - thick and inedible). ਀ഊ From TFCB ਀嬀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀栀琀椀⸀甀洀椀挀栀⸀攀搀甀⼀挀最椀⼀挀⼀挀洀攀⼀挀洀攀ⴀ椀搀砀㼀ഊtype=HTML&rgn=TEI.2&byte=3356093] ਀ഊ.I. Tartes de chare.--Take Freyssche Porke, & hew it, & grynd it on a ਀洀漀爀琀攀爀攀㬀 ☀ 琀愀欀攀 椀琀 瘀瀀瀀攀 椀渀ⴀ琀漀 愀 昀愀礀爀攀 瘀攀猀猀攀氀氀攀㬀 ☀ 琀愀欀攀 ︀攀 眀栀礀琀攀 愀渀 ︀攀ഊ3olkys of Eyroun, & strayne into Vesselle þorw a straynoure, & ਀琀攀洀瀀攀爀攀 ︀椀渀 倀漀爀欀攀 ︀攀爀ⴀ眀椀琀栀㬀 ︀愀渀 琀愀欀攀 倀礀渀攀稀Ⰰ 刀漀礀猀漀渀礀猀 漀昀 䌀漀爀愀甀渀挀攀Ⰰ ☀ഊfrye hem in freysshe grece, & caste þer-to pouder Pepir, & Gyngere, ਀䌀愀渀攀氀氀攀Ⰰ 匀甀最爀攀Ⰰ 匀愀昀爀漀甀渀Ⰰ ☀ 匀愀氀琀Ⰰ ☀ 挀愀猀琀攀 ︀攀爀ⴀ琀漀Ⰰ ☀ 搀漀 椀琀 漀渀 愀 挀漀昀礀渀渀攀Ⰰഊ& plante þin cofyne a-boue with Pyne3, & kyt Datys, & gret Roysonys, & ਀猀洀愀氀 戀礀爀搀礀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 攀氀氀礀猀 栀愀爀搀 ㌀漀氀欀礀猀 漀昀 䔀礀爀漀甀渀㬀 ☀ ㌀椀昀 ︀漀甀 琀愀欀攀 戀礀爀搀礀猀Ⰰഊfrye hem on a lytel grece or þow putte hem on þin cofynne, & endore ਀眀椀琀栀 ㌀漀氀欀礀猀 漀昀 䔀礀爀漀甀渀Ⰰ ☀ 匀愀昀爀漀甀渀Ⰰ ☀ 氀愀琀 戀愀欀攀 琀椀氀 椀琀 戀攀 礀ⴀ渀漀眀Ⰰ ☀ 猀爀甀攀ഊforth. ਀ഊ.xv. Doucete3.--Take Creme a gode cupfulle, & put it on a straynoure; ਀︀愀渀渀攀 琀愀欀攀 ㌀漀氀欀礀猀 漀昀 䔀礀爀漀甀渀 ☀ 瀀甀琀 ︀攀爀ⴀ琀漀Ⰰ ☀ 愀 氀礀琀攀氀 洀礀氀欀攀㬀 ︀攀渀 猀琀爀愀礀渀攀ഊit þorw a straynoure in-to a bolle; þen take Sugre y-now, & put þer-to, ਀漀爀 攀氀氀礀猀 栀漀渀礀 昀漀爀搀攀 昀愀甀琀攀 漀昀 匀最爀攀Ⰰ ︀愀渀 挀漀氀漀甀爀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 匀愀昀爀漀甀渀㬀 ︀愀渀ഊtake þin cofyns, & put in þe ovynne lere, & lat hem ben hardyd; þan ਀琀愀欀攀 愀 搀礀猀猀栀攀 礀ⴀ昀愀猀琀攀渀礀搀 漀渀 ︀攀 瀀攀氀礀猀 攀渀搀攀㬀 ☀ 瀀漀爀攀 ︀椀渀 挀漀洀愀搀攀 椀渀ⴀ琀漀 ︀攀ഊdyssche, & fro þe dyssche in-to þe cofyns; & when þey don a-ryse wel, ਀琀愀欀攀 栀攀洀 甀琀Ⰰ ☀ 猀攀爀甀攀 栀攀洀 昀漀爀琀栀⸀ഊ ਀倀礀攀㌀ 搀攀 瀀愀爀攀㌀⸀ⴀⴀ吀愀欀攀 ☀ 猀洀礀琀攀 昀愀礀爀攀 戀甀琀琀礀猀 漀昀 倀漀爀欀攀Ⰰ ☀ 戀甀琀琀礀猀 漀昀 嘀攀氀攀Ⰰഊto-gederys, & put it on a fayre potte, & do þer-to Freyssche broþe, & a ਀焀甀愀渀琀礀琀攀 漀昀 眀礀渀攀Ⰰ ☀ 氀愀琀 戀漀礀氀攀 愀氀氀攀 琀漀ⴀ最攀搀攀爀礀猀 琀礀氀 礀琀 戀攀 礀ⴀ渀漀眀㬀 ︀愀渀 琀愀欀攀ഊit fro þe fyre, &lat kele a lytelle; þan caste þer-to 3olkys of ਀䔀礀爀漀甀渀Ⰰ ☀ 瀀漀甀搀攀爀 漀昀 䜀礀渀最攀爀攀Ⰰ 匀甀最爀攀Ⰰ ☀ 匀愀氀琀Ⰰ ☀ 洀礀渀挀攀搀 䐀愀琀礀猀Ⰰ ☀ 刀漀礀猀漀渀礀猀ഊof Coraunce; þen make fayre past, and cofynnys, & do þer-on; kyuer it, ਀☀ 氀攀琀 戀愀欀攀Ⰰ ☀ 猀攀爀甀攀 昀⸀ഊ ਀ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ਀   䔀搀漀甀愀爀搀 䠀愀氀椀搀愀椀  ⠀䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀⤀ഊ http://www.medievalcookery.com/ ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㈀㌀ 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㌀㨀㔀㌀㨀　　 䔀匀吀ഊFrom: KristiWhyKelly at aol.com ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 䴀愀最愀稀椀渀攀 ⠀眀愀猀 洀攀愀琀瀀愀猀琀椀攀猀愀渀搀ഊ theirlongevity) ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀圀栀椀氀攀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 氀愀琀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 吀眀漀 䘀椀昀琀攀攀渀琀栀ⴀ䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䌀漀漀欀攀爀礀 戀漀漀欀猀Ⰰ 琀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀ഊbelow from Sabrina Welserin's cook book does call for boiled water and ਀戀甀琀琀攀爀 琀漀 戀攀 洀椀砀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 昀氀漀甀爀⸀  䤀琀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀渀 猀栀愀瀀攀搀 戀愀欀攀搀 琀栀攀渀 昀椀氀氀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀䜀爀愀挀攀ഊ ਀㘀㄀ 吀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 愀氀氀 猀栀愀瀀攀搀 瀀椀攀猀ഊ ਀吀愀欀攀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 最攀琀Ⰰ 愀戀漀甀琀 琀眀漀 栀愀渀搀昀甀氀猀Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 栀漀眀 氀愀爀最攀 漀爀 猀洀愀氀氀 礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀⸀ 倀甀琀 椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 愀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀 欀渀椀昀攀 猀琀椀爀 椀渀 琀眀漀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀愀氀琀⸀ 倀甀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 椀渀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀愀渀 愀渀 愀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀 昀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀椀稀攀 漀昀 琀眀漀 最漀漀搀 攀最最猀Ⰰ 氀攀琀 椀琀 愀氀氀 搀椀猀猀漀氀瘀攀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 愀渀搀 戀漀椀氀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 瀀漀甀爀 椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 漀渀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 愀 猀琀爀漀渀最 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀 眀漀爀欀 椀琀 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀 礀漀甀 昀攀攀氀 椀猀 爀椀最栀琀⸀ 䤀昀 椀琀 椀猀 猀甀洀洀攀爀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 洀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 洀攀愀琀 戀爀漀琀栀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀欀椀洀洀椀渀最猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 戀爀漀琀栀⸀ 圀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 椀猀 欀渀攀愀搀攀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 洀愀欀攀 漀昀 椀琀 愀 爀漀甀渀搀 戀愀氀氀 愀渀搀 搀爀愀眀 椀琀 漀甀琀 眀攀氀氀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 昀椀渀最攀爀猀 漀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 爀漀氀氀椀渀最 瀀椀渀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀椀搀搀氀攀 愀 爀愀椀猀攀搀 愀爀攀愀 爀攀洀愀椀渀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 氀攀琀 椀琀 挀栀椀氀氀椀渀 琀栀攀 挀漀氀搀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 猀栀愀瀀攀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 愀猀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀攀搀 漀甀琀 琀漀 礀漀甀⸀ 䄀氀猀漀 爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 挀漀瘀攀爀 愀渀搀 爀漀氀氀 椀琀 漀甀琀 椀渀琀漀 愀  挀漀瘀攀爀 愀渀搀 琀愀欀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀 椀琀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀瘀攀爀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀  昀漀爀洀攀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 猀栀攀氀氀 愀渀搀 樀漀椀渀 椀琀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 眀攀氀氀 椀琀栀 琀栀攀 昀椀渀最攀爀猀⸀ 䰀攀愀瘀攀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀  栀漀氀攀⸀ 䄀渀搀 猀攀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 椀猀 瀀爀攀猀猀攀搀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 挀漀洀攀  漀瀀攀渀⸀ 䈀氀漀眀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀洀愀氀氀 栀漀氀攀 眀栀椀挀栀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 氀攀昀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 挀漀瘀攀爀 眀椀氀氀 氀椀昀琀 椀琀猀攀氀昀  甀瀀⸀ 吀栀攀渀 焀甀椀挀欀氀礀 瀀爀攀猀猀 琀栀攀 栀漀氀攀 挀氀漀猀攀搀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 瀀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀攀渀⸀ 匀瀀爀椀渀欀氀攀  昀氀漀甀爀 椀渀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀栀 戀攀昀漀爀攀栀愀渀搀⸀ 吀愀欀攀 挀愀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀 椀猀 瀀爀漀瀀攀爀氀礀 栀攀愀琀攀搀Ⰰ  琀栀攀渀 椀琀 眀椀氀氀 戀攀 愀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 吀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 愀氀氀 猀栀愀瀀攀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀椀攀猀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀  琀栀椀猀 洀愀渀渀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀攀搀漀甀愀爀搀 愀琀 洀攀椀攀瘀愀氀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀挀漀洀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊBelow are the relevant recipes from Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery ਀䈀漀漀欀猀⸀  䤀渀 琀栀攀洀 䤀 挀愀渀 昀椀渀搀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 琀漀 瀀爀攀ⴀ戀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀Ⰰ 琀漀ഊcoloring it with saffron and egg yolks, and to putting a top crust on ਀椀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 搀漀 渀漀琀 猀攀攀 愀渀礀 渀漀攀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 眀愀氀氀猀Ⰰഊwhether they were edible, or the ingredients or methods used for making ਀琀栀攀洀⸀ഊ ਀䄀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀渀礀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 漀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 琀漀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀 琀栀攀椀爀ഊmethods? I am concerned that the "hot liquid fat poured into flor" ਀眀愀礀 漀昀 洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀 愀 ⠀爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀氀礀⤀ 洀漀搀攀爀渀 漀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀漀猀攀 昀爀漀洀 愀ഊfaulty source or assumption and is unintentionally being promoted as ਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀椀渀最 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 ⠀攀⸀最⸀ 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 椀琀✀猀ഊvery rustic looking - thick and inedible). ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㈀㌀ 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㘀㨀㄀㜀㨀㐀㠀 ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: Edouard de Bruyerecourt ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 䴀愀最愀稀椀渀攀 ⠀眀愀猀ऀ洀攀愀琀ഊ pastiesand theirlongevity) ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䌀愀椀氀氀椀渀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> The Pyes of Parys article was quite fascinating. What I found ਀㸀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 眀愀猀 眀栀攀渀 栀攀 洀愀搀攀 栀椀猀 挀漀昀昀礀渀猀 栀攀 洀愀搀攀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 ㌀ 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀ഊ> parts; a bottom part, the side part and then the top. He pre-baked them ਀㸀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 昀椀氀氀攀搀 琀栀攀洀 愀渀搀 搀椀搀 愀 昀氀漀甀爀ⴀ 眀愀琀攀爀 洀椀砀琀甀爀攀 琀漀 猀攀愀氀 琀栀攀洀⸀  圀栀愀琀ഊ> I am curious about is the need for the sides to be separate. I have not ਀㸀 猀攀攀渀 愀渀礀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀 昀漀爀 琀栀椀猀 愀渀搀 眀愀猀 挀甀爀椀漀甀猀 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 漀甀琀 椀昀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀猀ഊ> indeed period. ਀ഊMy deductions are that using the three parts is a more efficient use of ਀琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 愀瘀漀椀搀猀 攀椀琀栀攀爀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀挀欀攀爀 昀漀氀搀猀 愀氀漀渀最 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀ഊwalls, or the thicker walls and thinner bottom, if you took formed the ਀挀漀昀昀椀渀 昀爀漀洀 愀 氀愀爀最攀 挀椀爀挀氀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 琀栀爀攀攀 瀀椀攀挀攀 搀攀猀椀最渀 洀愀欀攀猀 愀氀氀 琀栀爀攀攀 猀椀搀攀猀ഊthe same thickness and with the same heating and drying properties. ਀ഊI don't know how old the 'tin can' style of meat pie coffin has been ਀甀猀攀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀✀猀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 甀戀椀焀甀椀琀椀漀甀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䈀爀椀琀椀猀栀 䤀猀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 昀漀爀洀攀爀ഊcolonies. The original pyes could have been just as easily a pasty ਀猀栀愀瀀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 漀渀攀 氀愀爀最攀 爀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 䈀甀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 愀最愀椀渀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 洀椀最栀琀 爀甀渀ഊinto problems with a good seal along the crimped seam. ਀ഊMight make for an interesting experiment. Make a dozen pies, three each ਀漀昀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 搀攀猀椀最渀猀㨀 琀栀爀攀攀ⴀ瀀椀攀挀攀 ✀琀椀渀 挀愀渀Ⰰ✀ ✀琀椀渀 挀愀渀✀ 眀椀琀栀 眀栀漀氀攀ഊbottom/sides, pasty/turn-over, and something else. See how the fare over ਀愀 昀漀甀爀 眀攀攀欀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 挀漀甀渀琀攀爀Ⰰ 挀栀攀挀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 挀爀愀挀欀猀 愀渀搀 搀爀礀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀猀ഊwell as the pastry to filling ratio it took to make each style. ਀ⴀⴀ  ഊEdouard, Sire de Bruyerecourt ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㈀㌀ 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㘀㨀㐀㤀㨀㄀ ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: david friedman ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䴀愀欀攀 䘀愀礀爀攀 倀愀猀琀攀 ⠀眀愀猀㨀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀ഊ Magazine...) ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䔀搀漀甀愀爀搀 䠀愀氀椀搀愀椀  ⠀䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀⤀ 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Below are the relevant recipes from Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery ਀㸀 䈀漀漀欀猀⸀  䤀渀 琀栀攀洀 䤀 挀愀渀 昀椀渀搀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 琀漀 瀀爀攀ⴀ戀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀Ⰰ 琀漀ഊ> coloring it with saffron and egg yols, and to putting a top crust ਀㸀 漀渀 椀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 搀漀 渀漀琀 猀攀攀 愀渀礀 渀漀琀攀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀昀昀椀渀ഊ> walls, whether they were edible, or the ingredients or methods used ਀㸀 昀漀爀 洀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䄀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀渀礀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 漀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 琀漀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀 琀攀椀爀ഊ> methods? I am concerned that the "hot liquid fat poured into flour" ਀㸀 眀愀礀 漀昀 洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀 愀 ⠀爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀氀礀⤀ 洀漀搀攀爀渀 漀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀漀猀攀 昀爀漀洀 愀ഊ> faulty source or assumption and is unintentionally being promoted as ਀㸀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀椀渀最 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 ⠀⸀最⸀ 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀ഊ> it's very rustic looking - thick and inedible). ਀ഊ(recipes snipped) ਀ഊAs far as I know, none of the pie recipes in Two Fifteenth-Century ਀䌀漀漀欀攀爀礀 䈀漀漀欀猀 琀攀氀氀猀 礀漀甀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 愀戀漀甀琀 栀漀眀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀ 吀栀攀ഊonly recipes I remember which do tell you are for pasty-types things ਀⠀愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 洀礀 最甀攀猀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 眀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀⤀ 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 最漀椀渀最 琀漀 戀攀ഊfried, and I am not sure how much of a guide that is to what pastry ਀礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 甀猀攀 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 最漀椀渀最 琀漀 戀攀 戀愀欀攀搀⸀ 䠀攀爀攀 椀猀 漀渀攀 漀昀ഊthese recipes: ਀ഊRyschewys Closed and Fried. Take figs, and grind them small in a ਀洀漀爀琀愀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 漀椀氀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 最爀椀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀洀 挀氀漀瘀攀猀 愀渀搀 洀愀挀攀猀㬀 愀渀搀ഊthen take it up into a vessel, and cast thereto pines, saunders and ਀爀愀椀猀漀渀猀 漀昀 挀漀爀椀渀琀栀 愀渀搀 洀椀渀挀攀搀 搀愀琀攀猀Ⰰ 瀀漀眀搀爀攀搀 瀀攀瀀瀀攀爀Ⰰ 挀愀渀攀氀Ⰰ 猀愀氀琀Ⰰഊsaffron; then take fine paste of flour and water, sugar, saffron and ਀猀愀氀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 昀愀椀爀 挀愀欀攀猀 琀栀攀爀攀漀昀㬀 琀栀攀渀 爀漀氀氀 琀栀椀渀攀 猀琀甀昀昀 椀渀 琀栀椀渀攀ഊhand and couch it in the cakes and cut it, and fold them in ryshews, ਀愀渀搀 昀爀礀 琀栀攀洀 甀瀀 椀渀 漀椀氀㬀 愀渀 猀攀爀瘀攀 昀漀爀琀栀 栀漀琀⸀ 嬀猀瀀攀氀氀椀渀最 洀漀搀攀爀渀椀稀攀搀崀ഊ ਀䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀⼀䈀攀琀琀礀 䌀漀漀欀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:13:51 +1300 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 倀栀椀氀 䄀渀搀攀爀猀漀渀 㰀甀爀椀稀攀渀 愀琀 瀀愀爀愀搀椀猀攀⸀渀攀琀⸀渀稀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Pyes of Pares article author's comments ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀䤀 昀漀爀眀愀爀搀攀搀 琀栀攀 搀椀最攀猀琀猀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀椀渀最 琀栀攀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀漀渀 漀昀 䐀攀氀✀猀 倀礀攀猀 漀昀ഊPares article to him and he sent back the reply below. He can be ਀挀漀渀琀愀挀琀攀搀 愀琀 搀攀氀 愀琀 戀愀戀攀氀⸀挀漀洀⸀愀甀ഊ ਀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀ഊ ਀夀攀猀Ⰰ 䤀✀洀 琀栀攀 愀甀琀栀漀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀Ⰰ 搀攀猀瀀椀琀攀 琀栀攀 昀愀挀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀ഊmagazine failed to spell my last name correctly. It is in ਀昀愀挀琀 ∀䔀氀猀漀渀∀⸀ഊ ਀䤀✀洀 栀愀瀀瀀礀 琀漀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀 愀渀礀 椀猀猀甀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 漀昀昀 氀椀猀琀 戀甀琀ഊI don't really have the time to subscribe to this list. I'm ਀漀渀 琀漀漀 洀愀渀礀 洀愀椀氀椀渀最 氀椀猀琀猀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 昀甀氀氀 琀椀洀攀 樀漀戀 愀渀搀ഊa half, and trying to keep a kingdom together at the moment ਀愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀吀漀 愀渀猀眀攀爀 猀漀洀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀猀㨀ഊ ਀⨀ 䤀 眀愀猀 愀眀愀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 挀漀瘀攀爀椀渀最 栀漀眀ഊto make pastry for these "coffins", and have used the post-period ਀猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 眀愀猀 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 琀爀愀挀攀 戀愀挀欀⸀  吀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 挀漀渀樀攀挀琀甀爀攀猀ഊthat *should* pastry have been made in this way in period then ਀椀琀 ⨀挀愀渀 戀攀 瀀爀漀瘀攀渀⨀ 琀漀 戀攀 愀渀 攀昀昀攀挀琀椀瘀攀 洀攀愀渀猀 漀昀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀愀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊTherefore it is reasonable to conjecture that these pies would ਀栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀礀Ⰰ 戀愀猀攀搀 漀渀 戀漀琀栀 琀栀攀 氀椀琀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀 愀渀搀ഊscientific evidence presented. ਀ഊ* The "pies bought from a service station" were in fact plain ਀洀攀愀琀 瀀椀攀猀⸀  吀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 欀攀瀀琀 爀攀昀爀椀最攀爀愀琀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀攀爀攀 樀甀猀琀ഊstored in paper bags. I don't believe that the difference ਀戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 眀漀漀搀攀渀 戀漀眀氀Ⰰ 挀氀漀琀栀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀愀瀀攀爀 戀愀最猀 洀愀搀攀 愀 猀椀最渀椀昀椀挀愀渀琀ഊdifference to the experiment. The reason that the service- ਀猀琀愀琀椀漀渀 瀀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 欀攀瀀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 瀀愀挀欀椀渀最 眀愀猀 琀漀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀ഊany doubt about introducing baccillus or fungi through handling. ਀ഊThe primary difference between the service station pies and ਀琀栀攀 瀀礀攀猀 搀攀 瀀愀爀攀猀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀  吀栀攀 猀攀爀瘀椀挀攀 猀琀愀琀椀漀渀 瀀椀攀猀ഊhad a meat filling, but the pastry was a thin-walled flaky ਀瀀愀猀琀爀礀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 猀漀洀攀 最愀瀀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 椀渀攀昀昀攀挀琀椀瘀攀 猀攀愀氀猀⸀  䤀琀 椀猀ഊapparent that airborne baccilli or spores were able to enter ਀琀栀攀 瀀椀攀猀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 眀愀氀氀猀 愀渀搀⼀漀爀 猀攀愀氀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⸀  䴀愀欀椀渀最ഊthe pastry heavier, dryer, and of a different composition, ਀瀀爀攀瘀攀渀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀⸀ഊ ਀伀渀 挀愀洀瀀Ⰰ 眀攀 欀攀攀瀀 漀甀爀 瀀礀攀猀 椀渀 愀 眀椀挀欀攀爀 戀愀猀欀攀琀 挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀ഊdry cloth. This is based on our understanding of the use ਀漀昀 眀椀挀欀攀爀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀攀爀猀 椀渀 昀椀攀氀搀 欀椀琀挀栀攀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 ㄀㔀琀栀 䌀Ⰰഊbased on woodcuts and artwork of the period. The wooden ਀戀漀眀氀 愀渀搀 挀氀漀琀栀 爀攀瀀爀漀搀甀挀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀 甀渀搀攀爀ഊlaboratory supervision as much as I was able to (I wasn't ਀愀戀氀攀 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 猀椀稀攀搀 眀椀挀欀攀爀 戀愀猀欀攀琀 椀渀 琀椀洀攀⤀⸀  䄀氀猀漀ഊthere appears to be some use of wooden boxes for food storage, ਀愀最愀椀渀 戀愀猀攀搀 漀渀 椀挀漀渀漀最爀愀瀀栀椀挀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀ഊappears that these boxes are not usually well sealed or ਀愀椀爀琀椀最栀琀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀昀漀爀攀 椀琀 椀猀 洀礀 挀漀渀樀攀挀琀甀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 昀漀漀搀 猀琀漀爀攀搀ഊinside these boxes or baskets had the ability to withstand ਀愀琀琀愀挀欀 戀礀 愀椀爀戀漀爀渀攀 瀀愀琀栀漀最攀渀猀⸀ഊ ਀⨀ 吀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 渀漀爀洀愀氀氀礀 甀猀攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 瀀礀攀猀 搀攀 瀀愀爀攀猀ഊis somewhat, although not excessively salted. It is edible, ਀愀渀搀 焀甀椀琀攀 琀愀猀琀礀 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 愀琀 愀 挀愀洀瀀椀渀最 攀瘀攀渀琀 眀栀攀爀攀 礀漀甀 琀攀渀搀ഊto get dehydrated and crave salt anyway. I often make larger ਀挀漀昀昀椀渀猀 琀漀 猀琀漀爀攀 爀漀愀猀琀攀搀 漀爀 戀漀椀氀攀搀 愀渀搀 猀愀氀琀攀搀 洀攀愀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀ഊpastry that I use to act as a storage is very salty, rock ਀栀愀爀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 渀漀琀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 攀搀椀戀氀攀⸀ഊ ਀⨀ 䤀 愀洀 甀渀愀戀氀攀 琀漀 最攀琀 愀 爀攀氀攀愀猀攀 昀漀爀 瀀漀猀琀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 琀漀ഊthe florilegium without first a word with the magazine editor. ਀䤀 眀椀氀氀 搀漀 琀栀愀琀 猀栀漀爀琀氀礀⸀  䤀✀洀 爀攀愀猀漀渀愀戀氀礀 猀甀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 栀攀 眀椀氀氀ഊhave no problems with that, perhaps after a suitable time ਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 挀愀氀氀 昀椀爀猀琀⸀ഊ-- ਀䐀攀氀ഊaka Delbert von Strassburg ਀䰀漀挀栀愀挀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:05:58 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀一愀渀挀礀 䬀椀攀氀∀ 㰀渀愀渀挀礀开欀椀攀氀 愀琀 栀漀琀洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Make Fayre Paste (was: Medieval History ਀ऀ䴀愀最愀稀椀渀攀⸀⸀⸀⤀ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org ਀ഊSo I'm an idiot, of course the coffin pastries CAN be baked empty-- those ਀昀漀甀爀ⴀ愀渀搀ⴀ琀眀攀渀琀礀 戀氀愀挀欀戀椀爀搀猀 眀漀渀✀琀 戀攀 猀椀渀最椀渀最 椀昀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀渀✀琀 瀀爀攀ⴀ戀愀欀攀搀⸀  䤀ഊwas wondering why one would pre-bake the crust and then bake it again with ਀琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最㬀 渀漀 搀漀甀戀琀 椀琀 搀攀瀀攀渀搀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 ⠀礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀愀琀 戀礀 渀漀眀ഊ I would know that no one did everything exactly the same way all the ਀琀椀洀攀⤀⸀ഊ ਀一愀渀挀礀 䬀椀攀氀ഊ ਀㸀 䘀爀漀洀㨀 搀愀瘀椀搀 昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀 㰀搀搀昀爀 愀琀 搀愀瘀椀搀搀昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊ> Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers) wrote: ਀㸀㸀 䈀攀氀漀眀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀氀攀瘀愀渀琀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 吀眀漀 䘀椀昀琀攀攀渀琀栀ⴀ䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䌀漀漀欀攀爀礀 䈀漀漀欀猀⸀ഊ>> In them I can find references to pre-baking the coffin, to coloring it ਀㸀㸀 眀椀琀栀 猀愀昀昀爀漀渀 愀渀搀 攀最最 礀漀氀欀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀漀 瀀甀琀琀椀渀最 愀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀渀 椀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 搀漀 渀漀琀ഊ>> see any notes about the thickness of the coffin walls, whether they were ਀㸀㸀 攀搀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ 漀爀 琀栀攀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀 漀爀 洀攀琀栀漀搀猀 甀猀攀搀 昀漀爀 洀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:15:47 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Make Fayre Paste (was: Medieval History ਀ऀ䴀愀最愀稀椀渀攀⸀⸀⸀⤀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" ਀ഊOne reason to pre-bake a pie shell is to prepare it to hold liquid filling. ਀倀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀猀Ⰰ 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最Ⰰ 栀愀瘀攀 愀 琀攀渀搀攀渀挀礀 琀漀 愀戀猀漀爀戀ഊliquids. An unbaked pie shell that is absorbing liquids may not bake ਀瀀爀漀瀀攀爀氀礀⸀  吀栀攀 愀渀猀眀攀爀 猀 琀漀 瀀愀爀琀椀愀氀氀礀 漀爀 昀甀氀氀礀 戀愀欀攀 椀琀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: David Friedman ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Period Pie crust recipies ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㄀㜀 䨀甀氀 ㈀　　㐀 ㈀㈀㨀㈀㤀㨀㔀㄀ ⴀ　㜀　　ഊ ਀䬀椀洀戀攀爀氀礀 匀愀爀最攀渀 㰀欀猀愀爀最攀渀 愀琀 挀栀愀爀琀攀爀⸀渀攀琀㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> I'm trying to find something that is more period than our ਀㸀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 猀栀漀爀琀挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀猀 愀 戀椀琀 洀漀爀攀 瀀愀氀愀琀愀戀氀攀 琀栀愀渀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ∀挀漀昀昀椀渀猀ഊ> made of paste" pie crusts of our esteemed ancestors. ਀ഊYou might want to try this one: ਀ഊTo make short paest for tarte ਀ 䄀 倀爀漀瀀攀爀 一攀眀攀 䈀漀漀欀 瀀⸀ ㌀㜀⼀䌀㄀　ഊ ਀吀愀欀攀 昀礀渀攀 昀氀漀甀爀攀 愀渀搀 愀 挀甀爀猀挀礀 漀昀 昀愀礀爀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 愀 搀礀猀挀栀攀 漀昀 猀眀攀琀攀 ഊbutter and a lyttel saffron, and the yolkes of two egges and make it ਀琀栀礀渀渀攀 愀渀搀 愀猀 琀攀渀搀攀爀 愀猀 礀攀 洀愀礀攀⸀ ഊ ਀伀甀爀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 ⠀昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 䴀椀猀挀攀氀氀愀渀礀⤀ഊ ਀䌀爀甀猀琀㨀 㘀 琀栀爀攀愀搀猀 猀愀昀昀爀漀渀 挀爀甀猀栀攀搀 椀渀 ㄀ 琀 挀漀漀氀 眀愀琀攀爀 㔀ⴀ㘀 吀 瘀攀爀礀 猀漀昀琀 戀甀琀琀攀爀ഊ1 c flour 2 egg yolks ਀ഊTo make crust, mix saffron water into flour; add egg yolks and mix well ਀⠀眀椀氀氀 戀攀 挀爀甀洀戀氀礀⤀⸀ 䄀搀搀 㐀 吀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 洀椀砀 眀攀氀氀㬀 愀搀搀 攀渀漀甀最栀 漀昀 爀攀洀愀椀渀椀渀最 ഊbutter to make a smooth paste. (Amount used depends upon softness of ਀戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 眀愀爀洀琀栀 漀昀 欀椀琀挀栀攀渀⸀⤀ 刀漀氀氀 猀洀漀漀琀栀 愀渀搀 瀀氀愀挀攀 椀渀 㤀∀ 瀀椀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀⸀ ഊCrimp edge. Pour into raw crust and bake at 350? for about 50 minutes ਀⠀琀漀瀀 挀爀愀挀欀猀⤀⸀ 䌀漀漀氀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 攀愀琀椀渀最⸀ഊ-- ਀䐀愀瘀椀搀⼀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀ഊwww.daviddfriedman.com ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㄀㤀 䨀甀氀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㈀㨀㈀㄀㨀㐀㌀ 䔀䐀吀ഊFrom: Devra at aol.com ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀瀀椀攀 猀漀最最礀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org ਀ഊThis won't work with baked fruit pies, but if you are making a custard pie, ਀攀椀琀栀攀爀 瀀氀愀椀渀 漀爀 眀椀琀栀 爀愀眀 昀爀甀椀琀 漀渀 琀漀瀀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 搀漀 琀栀攀 漀氀✀ 猀氀椀搀攀 琀栀椀渀最⸀ 䈀愀欀攀 琀栀攀ഊcrust. Bake the filling in an identical-sized pan. After they both cool, ਀猀氀椀琀栀攀爀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 戀愀欀攀搀 猀栀攀氀氀⸀  夀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 戀攀 挀愀爀攀昀甀氀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀ഊjust slide right in and settle down... I used to do that with a coffee ਀挀甀猀琀愀爀搀 瀀椀攀⸀ഊ ਀      䐀攀瘀爀愀 ⠀洀洀洀 ⴀ 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 漀昀 琀栀愀琀 挀漀昀昀攀攀 瀀椀攀 昀漀爀 礀攀愀爀猀⸀⸀⸀⤀ഊ ਀䐀攀瘀爀愀 䰀愀渀最猀愀洀ഊwww.poisonpenpress.com ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 　㤀㨀㈀㔀㨀㌀㈀ ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: David Friedman ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䄀 猀洀愀氀氀 昀攀愀猀琀 ⠀氀漀渀最⤀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊCynata wrote: ਀㸀 夀漀甀 猀愀椀搀 礀漀甀 洀愀搀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 椀渀 愀搀瘀愀渀挀攀 愀渀搀 昀爀漀稀攀 琀栀攀洀⸀ 䐀漀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 愀ഊ> recipe, and more importantly, sme pointers on making good pie crust? Up ਀㸀 甀渀琀椀氀 渀漀眀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 爀攀氀椀攀搀 漀渀 瀀爀攀ⴀ洀愀搀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 倀椀氀氀猀戀甀爀礀 樀甀猀琀 爀攀挀攀渀琀氀礀ഊ> changed their packaging on their refrigerated crusts, and it seems like they ਀㸀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀猀漀 挀栀愀渀最攀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 昀漀爀洀甀氀愀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 猀椀稀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀攀挀攀 漀昀 搀漀甀最栀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ഊ> At any rate, I haven't had good luck with the new crusts. And my local ਀㸀 最爀漀挀攀爀礀 椀猀 渀漀 氀漀渀最攀爀 挀愀爀爀礀椀渀最 琀栀攀 䴀爀猀⸀ 匀洀椀琀栀✀猀 ⠀搀愀椀爀礀ⴀ昀爀攀攀⤀ 昀爀漀稀攀渀 猀栀攀氀氀猀⸀ഊ> So I have to learn to make my own. I would need to use either vegetable ਀㸀 猀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最 漀爀 猀漀礀 洀愀爀最愀爀椀渀攀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀䘀漀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 渀漀 椀渀搀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 眀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀Ⰰ 䤀 甀猀攀ഊa standard modern flaky pie crust made with partly whole wheat flour ਀愀渀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 椀琀 挀愀渀 戀攀 搀漀渀攀 眀椀琀栀 洀愀爀最愀爀椀渀攀⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀 椀搀攀愀ഊwheher or not this is right--I know of no pie crust recipes before ਀琀栀攀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀猀 琀栀攀渀 椀渀挀氀甀搀攀 戀漀琀栀 ∀猀栀漀爀琀 瀀愀猀琀攀∀ 愀渀搀ഊpie crusts without fat. ਀ഊFor two 9" crusts, mix 2/3 c whole wheat flour and 1 1/3 c white ਀昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 挀甀琀 愀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀 椀猀 椀渀ഊvery small lumps (I generally use a food processor for this; I have ਀搀漀渀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 琀眀漀 欀渀椀瘀攀猀 挀甀琀琀椀渀最 堀ⴀ眀椀猀攀 愀最愀椀渀猀琀 攀愀挀栀 漀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀ഊfor feast quantities), then add about 6 tablespoons of water a ਀猀瀀漀漀渀昀甀氀 漀爀 琀眀漀 愀琀 愀 琀椀洀攀愀渀搀 洀椀砀 瘀攀爀礀 挀愀爀攀昀甀氀氀礀 眀椀琀栀 愀 昀漀爀欀 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀ഊstarts to hang together, working it as little as possible. I roll ਀琀栀攀洀 漀甀琀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀眀漀 猀栀攀攀琀猀 漀昀 眀愀砀攀搀 瀀愀瀀攀爀 椀渀琀漀 愀 挀椀爀挀氀攀 琀栀攀 搀椀愀洀攀琀攀爀ഊof the waxed paper, remove one sheet of waxed paper and loosen the ਀漀琀栀攀爀 戀攀漀爀攀 椀渀瘀攀爀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀渀琀漀 愀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀渀 ⠀椀琀 戀攀椀渀最 愀 氀漀琀ഊeasier to peel waxed paper off the pie crust when it is lying flat ਀琀栀愀渀 愀昀琀攀爀 椀琀 椀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀渀⤀⸀ 倀甀琀 椀渀琀漀 愀 最愀氀氀漀渀 稀椀瀀ⴀ氀漀挀欀 戀愀最Ⰰഊsqueeze the air out and seal, and you can have a stack of these ਀猀椀琀椀渀最 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 昀爀攀攀稀攀爀 昀漀爀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 渀攀攀搀 琀栀攀洀⸀ 䤀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 漀渀攀ഊearlier occasion for a larger feast when we had a real assembly line ਀最漀椀渀最 椀渀 洀礀 欀椀琀挀栀攀渀 愀渀搀 搀椀渀椀渀最 爀漀漀洀 洀愀欀椀渀最 ㈀　 漀爀 洀漀爀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 昀漀爀ഊthe event a few weeks away. It is a way of getting a labor intensive ਀樀漀戀 漀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 氀攀椀猀甀爀攀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀Ⰰ 愀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 䤀ഊcan tell, compromising quality. ਀ഊElizabeth/Betty Cook ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㐀 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㌀㨀㔀㐀㨀㌀㄀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Daniel Myers ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 倀椀氀氀猀戀甀爀礀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊOn Nov 4, 2004, at 11:48 AM, Chris Stanifer wrote: ਀㸀 䄀渀漀琀栀攀爀 爀攀愀猀漀渀 礀漀甀 洀愀礀 眀椀猀栀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 ✀瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀✀ 戀礀 栀愀渀搀 昀漀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀ഊ> feasts is that there appears ਀㸀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 戀椀琀 漀昀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 ✀瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀✀ 甀猀攀搀 椀渀 洀愀渀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊ> extant recipes were not all that ਀㸀 昀氀愀欀礀 漀爀 琀攀渀搀攀爀 琀漀 戀攀最椀渀 眀椀琀栀⸀  䤀琀 愀氀氀 搀攀瀀攀渀搀猀 漀渀 栀漀眀 愀甀琀栀攀渀琀椀挀 礀漀甀ഊ> want to be. A crust used to ਀㸀 攀渀挀愀猀攀 愀 爀愀戀戀椀琀 ⠀䠀愀爀攀 倀椀攀㼀㼀㼀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 猀栀愀瀀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀ഊ> creature would need to be ਀㸀 猀琀甀爀搀礀⸀  䄀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 昀氀愀欀礀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 洀愀礀 眀攀氀氀 挀爀甀洀戀氀攀 甀渀搀攀爀 椀琀猀 漀眀渀ഊ> weight if used in this manner. ਀ഊHaving done a good amount of research and experimentation on pie ਀挀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰ 䤀✀洀 椀渀挀氀椀渀攀搀 琀漀 搀椀猀愀最爀攀攀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 洀愀渀礀 瀀愀椀渀琀椀渀最猀 昀爀漀洀 樀甀猀琀ഊafter period of standing crust pies where it can clearly be seen that ਀琀栀攀 眀愀氀氀猀 愀爀攀 氀攀猀猀 琀栀愀渀 愀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀 漀昀 愀渀 椀渀挀栀 琀栀椀挀欀⸀  䤀✀瘀攀 愀氀猀漀 洀愀搀攀 愀ഊnumber of dishes using standard pie crust recipes that are sculpted and ਀猀琀愀渀搀 甀瀀 焀甀椀琀攀 眀攀氀氀 漀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 漀眀渀 ⠀猀攀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀挀猀 愀琀 琀栀攀 唀刀䰀猀 戀攀氀漀眀⤀⸀ഊNone of them had a tendency to crumble. As long as there's something ਀琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀 眀爀愀瀀瀀攀搀 愀爀漀甀渀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 椀琀 栀愀猀 瀀氀攀渀琀礀 漀昀 猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀⸀ഊ ਀ऀ∀匀琀椀氀氀ⴀ氀椀昀攀 眀椀琀栀 吀甀爀欀攀礀ⴀ倀椀攀∀ ⠀搀攀琀愀椀氀⤀Ⰰ 倀椀攀琀攀爀 䌀氀愀攀猀稀Ⰰ 挀⸀ ㄀㘀㌀　ഊ http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/standing1.jpg ਀ഊ "Breakfast Table with Blackberry Pie" (detail), Willem Claesz Heda ਀⠀㄀㘀㌀㄀⤀ഊ http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/standing4.jpg ਀ഊSome of my own experiments: ਀ऀ䄀 䐀椀猀栀 漀昀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀  ⴀഊhttp://www.medievalcookery.com/images/artichoke.jpg ਀ऀ䄀 挀栀椀挀欀攀渀 瀀椀攀 猀栀愀瀀攀搀 氀椀欀攀 愀 昀椀猀栀  ⴀഊhttp://www.medievalcookery.com/images/fish.jpg ਀ഊ Standing crust experiment - ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀挀漀洀⼀椀洀愀最攀猀⼀挀爀甀猀琀⸀樀瀀最ഊ (the final version of this one was larger and thinner) ਀ഊAlso see the painting "Kitchen" (Vincenzo Campi, 1580s) in which there ਀椀猀 愀 眀漀洀愀渀 爀漀氀氀椀渀最 漀甀琀 愀 琀栀椀渀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀 昀漀爀 愀 搀漀甀戀氀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 瀀椀攀 椀渀 愀ഊmodern-shaped pie pan. ਀ഊ http://www.wga.hu/art/c/campi/vincenzo/2kitchen.jpg ਀ഊ> There are those, like myself, who believe that some of these crusts ਀㸀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 攀瘀攀渀 洀攀愀渀琀 琀漀 戀攀ഊ> eaten, but rather acted as sturdy little pastry ovens to help keep the ਀㸀 挀漀渀琀攀渀琀猀 洀漀椀猀琀 愀渀搀ഊ> protected from excessive heat. When the dish was served, the crust ਀㸀 眀愀猀 挀甀琀 愀眀愀礀 愀渀搀 搀椀猀挀愀爀搀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀圀栀椀氀攀 猀漀洀攀 猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 挀爀甀猀琀猀 洀愀礀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 甀猀攀搀 愀猀 愀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀愀琀椀漀渀 洀攀琀栀漀搀ഊand were not intended to be eaten, this is certainly not the case for ਀愀氀氀 挀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰ 愀猀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 ⠀攀洀瀀栀愀猀椀猀 愀搀搀攀搀⤀㨀ഊ ਀∀吀漀 洀愀欀攀 倀愀猀琀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀攀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀猀⸀ 吀愀欀攀 昀椀渀攀 昀氀漀眀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 氀愀礀 椀琀 漀渀 愀ഊboord, and take a certaine of yolkes of Egges as your quantitie of ਀昀氀漀眀攀爀 椀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀愀欀攀 愀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀攀 漀昀 䈀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 戀漀椀氀 琀栀攀洀ഊtogether, but ye must take heed ye put not too many yolks of Egges, *** ਀昀漀爀 椀昀 礀漀甀 搀漀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 眀椀氀氀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀 搀爀椀攀 愀渀搀 渀漀琀 瀀氀攀愀猀愀渀琀 椀渀 攀愀琀椀渀最 ⨀⨀⨀㨀ഊand yee must take heed ye put not in too much Butter for if you doe, it ਀眀椀氀氀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀 猀漀 昀椀渀攀 愀渀搀 猀栀漀爀琀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀渀漀琀 爀愀椀猀攀⸀ 䄀渀搀 琀栀椀猀 瀀愀猀琀攀 椀猀ഊgood to raise all manner of Coffins: Likewise if ye bake Venison, bake ਀椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀攀 愀戀漀瘀攀 渀愀洀攀搀⸀ ∀ഊ ਀匀漀甀爀挀攀 嬀吀栀攀 䜀漀漀搀 䠀甀猀眀椀昀攀猀 䠀愀渀搀洀愀椀搀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 䬀椀琀挀栀攀渀Ⰰ 匀琀甀愀爀琀 倀攀愀挀栀攀礀ഊ(ed.), c. 1588] ਀ഊ- Doc ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㐀 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㈀㌀㨀㄀　㨀㐀㌀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Glenn A. Crawford" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 倀椀氀氀猀戀甀爀礀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀ഊTo: "'Cooks within the SCA'" ਀ഊ> "To make Paste, and to raise Coffins. Take fine flower, and lay it on a ਀㸀 戀漀漀爀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀愀欀攀 愀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀攀 漀昀 礀漀氀欀攀猀 漀昀 䔀最最攀猀 愀猀 礀漀甀爀 焀甀愀渀琀椀琀椀攀 漀昀ഊ> flower is, then take a certaine of Butter and water, and boil them ਀㸀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 礀攀 洀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 栀攀攀搀 礀攀 瀀甀琀 渀漀琀 琀漀漀 洀愀渀礀 礀漀氀欀猀 漀昀 䔀最最攀猀Ⰰ ⨀⨀⨀ഊ> for if you doe, it will make it drie and not pleasant in eating ***: ਀㸀 愀渀搀 礀攀攀 洀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 栀攀攀搀 礀攀 瀀甀琀 渀漀琀 椀渀 琀漀漀 洀甀挀栀 䈀甀琀琀攀爀 昀漀爀 椀昀 礀漀甀 搀漀攀Ⰰ 椀琀ഊ> will make it so fine and short that you cannot raise. And this paste is ਀㸀 最漀漀搀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀攀 愀氀氀 洀愀渀渀攀爀 漀昀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀猀㨀 䰀椀欀攀眀椀猀攀 椀昀 礀攀 戀愀欀攀 嘀攀渀椀猀漀渀Ⰰ 戀愀欀攀ഊ> it in the paste above named. " ਀ഊJust a lurker peek out again, when I read this recipe it sounds like a ਀爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 琀漀搀愀礀✀猀 瀀琀攀  挀栀漀甀砀 ⠀瀀甀昀昀 猀栀攀氀氀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀⤀⸀ 䄀猀 䤀 爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀ഊinstructions, it is similar to the procedure except the egg is added last ਀渀漀琀 昀椀爀猀琀⸀ഊ ਀㘀 琀愀戀氀攀猀瀀漀漀渀猀 ⠀㌀ 漀甀渀挀攀猀⤀ 甀渀猀愀氀琀攀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀ഊ3/4 cup water ਀㄀ 挀甀瀀 愀氀氀 瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀 昀氀漀甀爀ഊ1/8 teaspoon salt ਀㄀ 琀攀愀猀瀀漀漀渀 猀甀最愀爀ഊ4 eggs ਀ഊPreheat oven to 450 degrees. In 2 quart pot, combine the butter and water. ਀伀渀 愀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀 眀愀砀 漀爀 瀀愀爀挀栀洀攀渀琀 瀀愀瀀攀爀Ⰰ 猀椀昀琀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 猀愀氀琀 愀渀搀ഊsugar. Bring the water and butter to a rolling boil, remove from heat and ਀搀甀洀瀀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 洀椀砀琀甀爀攀 椀渀 愀氀氀 愀琀 漀渀挀攀⸀ 匀琀椀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 眀漀漀搀攀渀 猀瀀漀漀渀 漀爀 瀀愀搀搀氀攀 琀漀ഊincorporate. ਀ഊReturn the saucepot to high heat and cook, stirring, for about one minute. ਀吀栀攀 洀椀砀琀甀爀攀 眀椀氀氀 昀漀爀洀 愀 戀愀氀氀 愀渀搀 挀漀愀琀 琀栀攀 瀀愀渀 眀椀琀栀 愀 琀栀椀渀 昀椀氀洀⸀ഊ ਀吀爀愀渀猀昀攀爀 琀栀攀 洀椀砀琀甀爀攀 琀漀 愀 洀椀砀椀渀最 戀漀眀氀 漀爀 猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 洀椀砀攀爀 攀焀甀椀瀀瀀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀ഊpaddle attachment. Mix the dough for a minute or so, on low speed, to ਀爀攀氀攀愀猀攀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 栀攀愀琀⸀ 䄀搀搀 琀栀攀 攀最最猀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 愀琀 愀 琀椀洀攀Ⰰ 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀氀礀ഊincorporating each one before adding the next. Beat until the dough gets ਀琀栀椀挀欀 愀渀搀 爀椀戀戀漀渀礀⸀ഊ ਀䘀椀琀 愀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 戀愀最 眀椀琀栀 愀 爀漀甀渀搀 ⌀㔀 琀椀瀀 愀渀搀 昀椀氀氀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 眀愀爀洀 搀漀甀最栀⸀ 䰀椀渀攀 愀ഊheavy cookie sheet with parchment paper and anchor it to the tray with a ਀氀椀琀琀氀攀 搀愀戀 漀昀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 愀琀 攀愀挀栀 挀漀爀渀攀爀⸀ 倀椀瀀攀 愀戀漀甀琀 昀漀爀琀礀 琀漀 昀漀爀琀礀 昀椀瘀攀 ㄀ഊ1/2-inch mounds about 2 inches apart on a cookie sheet lined with parchment ਀瀀愀瀀攀爀⸀ 䈀愀欀攀 昀漀爀 ㄀　 琀漀 ㄀㔀 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀Ⰰ 甀渀琀椀氀 最漀氀搀攀渀 愀渀搀 瀀甀昀昀攀搀⸀ 刀攀搀甀挀攀 栀攀愀琀 琀漀ഊ350 degrees and bake for another 10 minutes or until they are golden brown ਀愀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 渀漀 搀爀漀瀀氀攀琀猀 漀昀 洀漀椀猀琀甀爀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀爀攀瘀椀挀攀猀⸀ 吀甀爀渀 漀昀昀 漀瘀攀渀 愀渀搀ഊleave the choux to dry for another 10 minutes. Use when cool, or freeze, ਀眀爀愀瀀瀀攀搀 椀渀 愀 瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀 戀愀最Ⰰ 昀漀爀 ㈀ⴀ㌀ 洀漀渀琀栀猀⸀ഊ ਀䜀氀攀渀渀 䄀⸀ 䌀爀愀眀昀漀爀搀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 19:14:24 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re:non-soggy pie crust bottoms - OOP ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䈀椀氀氀 䘀椀猀栀攀爀∀ 㰀氀椀愀洀昀椀猀栀攀爀 愀琀 最洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀Ⰰऀ∀䌀漀漀欀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ഊ ਀ഊ> Typically the easiest (and probably non-period) way to make your ਀㸀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀 渀漀渀ⴀ猀漀最最礀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 琀漀 戀氀椀渀搀ⴀ戀愀欀攀 礀漀甀爀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 昀椀氀氀攀搀ഊ> with beans, or arbles, or small stones. Then put in the fillling ਀㸀 愀渀搀 戀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䌀愀搀漀挀ഊ ਀䈀氀椀渀搀 戀愀欀椀渀最 洀愀礀 渀漀琀 戀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䴀愀爀琀椀渀漀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀猀 戀氀椀渀搀 戀愀欀椀渀最 愀 挀氀漀猀攀搀ഊpie shell for a dish of live birds in a pie. We've discussed it here ਀瀀爀攀瘀椀漀甀猀氀礀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀洀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:28:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 刀漀戀椀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䴀愀渀渀 㰀爀挀洀愀渀渀㐀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Carrot-Cheese Pie (recipe and redaction) ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䠀攀爀攀✀猀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 䤀 眀愀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀吀漀爀琀愀 搀攀 娀愀渀愀栀漀爀椀愀 ⠀䌀愀爀爀漀琀 倀椀攀⤀ഊ ਀ऀ圀愀猀栀 愀渀搀 猀挀爀愀瀀攀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀爀漀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 琀栀攀洀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 挀漀漀欀 ഊthem in good meat broth, and being cooked remove them and chop them ਀猀洀愀氀氀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 欀渀椀昀攀Ⰰ 愀搀搀椀渀最 琀漀 琀栀攀洀 洀椀渀琀 愀渀搀 洀愀爀樀漀爀愀洀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 昀漀爀 攀愀挀栀 ഊtwo pounds of chopped carrots [use] a pound of Tronchon cheese and a ਀瀀漀甀渀搀 愀渀搀 愀 栀愀氀昀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀礀 倀椀渀琀漀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀椀砀 漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 昀爀攀猀栀 ഊcheese, and one ounce of ground pepper, one ounce of cinnamon, two ਀漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 挀愀渀搀椀攀搀 漀爀愀渀最攀 瀀攀攀氀 挀甀琀 猀洀愀氀氀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 攀椀最栀琀 ഊeggs, three ounces of cow's butter, and from this composition make a ਀琀漀爀琀愀 眀椀琀栀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 愀戀漀瘀攀 愀渀搀 戀攀氀漀眀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀愀爀琀 瀀愀渀 眀椀琀栀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 愀氀氀 ഊaround, and make it cook in the oven, making the crust of sugar, ਀挀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 爀漀猀攀眀愀琀攀爀⸀ 䤀渀 琀栀椀猀 洀愀渀渀攀爀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 洀愀欀攀 琀漀爀琀愀猀 漀昀 愀氀氀 ഊsorts of roots, such as that of parsley, having taken the core out of ਀琀栀攀洀⸀ऀഊ ਀䐀椀攀最漀 䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀Ⰰ 䰀椀戀爀漀 搀攀氀 䄀爀琀攀 搀攀 䌀漀稀椀渀愀Ⰰ ㄀㔀㤀㤀ഊ ਀刀攀搀愀挀琀椀漀渀㨀ഊ1/2 lb. carrots, cooked and drained ਀㄀⼀㈀ 漀稀⸀ 挀愀渀搀椀攀搀 漀爀愀渀最攀 瀀攀攀氀ഊ4 oz. mozzarella, shredded ਀㄀⼀㐀 琀猀瀀⸀ 搀爀椀攀搀 洀愀爀樀漀爀愀洀ഊ6 oz. monterey jack, shredded ਀㄀⼀㈀ 琀猀瀀 搀爀椀攀搀 洀椀渀琀ഊ1-1/2 oz. ricotta cheese ਀㈀ 攀最最猀Ⰰ 戀攀愀琀攀渀ഊ1-1/2 TBS butter ਀瀀愀猀琀爀礀 昀漀爀 ㈀ⴀ挀爀甀猀琀 瀀椀攀 ⠀瀀爀攀昀攀爀愀戀氀礀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⤀ഊ1/2 TBS cinnamon ਀挀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀 猀甀最愀爀ഊ1/2 c. sugar ਀爀漀猀攀眀愀琀攀爀ഊ ਀倀爀攀栀攀愀琀 漀瘀攀渀 琀漀 ㌀㜀㔀 䘀⸀  䌀漀洀戀椀渀攀 愀氀氀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀 愀渀搀 洀椀砀 ഊthoroughly. Place in the bottom crust. Put on the top crust, and seal ਀琀栀攀 攀搀最攀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀  䈀爀甀猀栀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀 眀椀琀栀 爀漀猀攀眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀瀀爀椀渀欀氀攀 眀椀琀栀 ഊcinnamon sugar. Bake for 45-50 minutes, until the crust is brown, and ਀琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 椀猀 猀攀琀⸀ഊ ਀一漀琀攀猀㨀ഊThis appears to be one of the recipes that Granado "borrowed" from ਀匀挀愀瀀瀀椀⸀  䤀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 椀渀 愀 挀栀愀瀀琀攀爀 攀渀琀椀琀氀攀搀Ⰰ ∀䐀椀瘀攀爀猀 䴀愀渀渀攀爀猀 漀昀 吀漀爀琀愀猀Ⰰ ഊor Tortadas, Which in Italy are Called Costradas, and in Naples, ਀䌀漀瀀漀猀∀⸀  䤀 洀愀搀攀 猀漀洀攀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀椀漀渀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀栀攀攀猀攀猀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 甀渀愀戀氀攀 ഊto identify Pinto cheese, so I substituted mozzarella, which is a ਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 ⠀䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀 爀攀昀攀爀猀 琀漀 椀琀 椀渀 漀琀栀攀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀⤀⸀  吀爀漀渀挀栀漀渀 椀猀 愀 ഊSpanish variety which is still produced today, but it is rare and hard ਀琀漀 漀戀琀愀椀渀⸀  䤀琀猀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀 椀猀 猀甀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 洀椀氀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 䴀漀渀琀攀爀攀礀 ഊJack, though a modern cheese, might work in this recipe. Fresh cheese ਀椀猀 愀 猀漀昀琀Ⰰ 渀攀眀氀礀ⴀ洀愀搀攀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 刀椀挀漀琀琀愀 栀愀猀 愀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 琀愀猀琀攀 愀渀搀 ഊtexture, even though it is a whey cheese. ਀ഊLady Brighid ni Chiarain ਀䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 匀攀琀琀洀漀甀爀 匀眀愀洀瀀Ⰰ 䔀愀猀琀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:59:31 -0800 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 匀甀猀愀渀 䘀漀砀ⴀ䐀愀瘀椀猀 㰀猀攀氀攀渀攀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Carrot-Cheese Pie (recipe and redaction) ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䌀愀爀爀漀琀 䌀栀攀攀猀攀 倀椀攀 洀愀礀 渀漀琀 猀漀甀渀搀 愀瀀瀀攀琀椀稀椀渀最 琀漀 琀栀漀猀攀 甀渀ⴀ猀漀挀椀愀氀椀稀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀ഊHistorical Cooking asthetic, but Carrot Cake and Cheese Cake do. Go ਀昀椀最甀爀攀⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 嬀愀渀搀 礀漀甀爀 爀攀搀愀挀琀椀漀渀崀 猀漀甀渀搀 礀甀洀洀礀℀ഊ ਀䄀 猀渀愀椀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀 䰀椀戀爀漀Ⰰ ഊPARA HAZER COSTRADAS DE CARACOLES SACADOS DE LA ਀䌀䄀匀䌀䄀刀䄀 ⴀⴀ 吀漀 䴀愀欀攀 䌀愀欀攀猀 漀昀 匀渀愀椀氀猀 刀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 匀栀攀氀氀Ⰰ 挀愀氀氀猀 昀漀爀 ∀愀ഊlittle grated Pinto Cheese" which implies something about its texture ਀眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 渀漀琀 猀漀昀琀 氀椀欀攀 刀椀挀漀琀琀愀Ⰰ 礀攀猀渀漀㼀ഊ ਀  䘀爀漀洀 愀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 洀攀爀挀栀愀渀琀✀猀 眀攀戀猀椀琀攀㨀ഊ http://www.bacchuscellars.com/cheese/tronchon.htm ਀ഊ"Tronchon is a very small village in the southeastern part of Spain's ਀眀椀氀搀 愀渀搀 洀漀甀渀琀愀椀渀漀甀猀 吀攀爀甀攀氀 瀀爀漀瘀椀渀挀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 琀漀眀渀 愀渀搀 椀琀猀 猀甀爀爀漀甀渀搀椀渀最 愀爀攀愀ഊhas an age-old tradition of raising sheep and goats in mixed herds. This ਀琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀 氀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 挀爀攀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 吀爀漀渀挀栀漀渀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 愀ഊblend of goat, sheep and cow milk. This uniquely volcano-shaped cheese ਀椀猀 戀攀愀甀琀椀昀甀氀 愀渀搀 搀攀氀椀挀椀漀甀猀⸀ 圀椀琀栀 椀琀猀 猀洀漀漀琀栀Ⰰ 戀甀琀琀攀爀礀Ⰰ 昀爀攀猀栀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀 愀渀搀ഊspringy texture, Tronchon is a longtime family favorite in Spain. It ਀最漀攀猀 最爀攀愀琀 眀椀琀栀 最爀攀攀渀 匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀 漀氀椀瘀攀猀 愀渀搀 愀 昀爀甀椀琀礀 爀攀搀 刀椀漀樀愀⸀∀ഊ ਀䈀攀猀琀Ⰰ 匀攀氀攀渀攀ഊ ਀㸀 一漀琀攀猀㨀ഊ> This appears to be one of the recipes that Granado "borrowed" from ਀㸀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀⸀  䤀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 椀渀 愀 挀栀愀瀀琀攀爀 攀渀琀椀琀氀攀搀Ⰰ ∀䐀椀瘀攀爀猀 䴀愀渀渀攀爀猀 漀昀 吀漀爀琀愀猀Ⰰ ഊ> or Tortadas, Which in Italy are Called Costradas, and in Naples, ਀㸀 䌀漀瀀漀猀∀⸀  䤀 洀愀搀攀 猀漀洀攀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀椀漀渀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀栀攀攀猀攀猀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 甀渀愀戀氀攀 ഊ> to identify Pinto cheese, so I substituted mozzarella, which is a ਀㸀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 ⠀䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀 爀攀昀攀爀猀 琀漀 椀琀 椀渀 漀琀栀攀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀⤀⸀  吀爀漀渀挀栀漀渀 椀猀 愀 ഊ> Spanish variety which is still produced today, but it is rare and hard ਀㸀 琀漀 漀戀琀愀椀渀⸀  䤀琀猀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀 椀猀 猀甀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 洀椀氀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 䴀漀渀琀攀爀攀礀 ഊ> Jack, though a modern cheese, might work in this recipe. Fresh cheese ਀㸀 椀猀 愀 猀漀昀琀Ⰰ 渀攀眀氀礀ⴀ洀愀搀攀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 刀椀挀漀琀琀愀 栀愀猀 愀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 琀愀猀琀攀 愀渀搀 ഊ> texture, even though it is a whey cheese. ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㄀㨀　㤀㨀　㔀 ⴀ　㔀　　 ⠀䜀䴀吀ⴀ　㔀㨀　　⤀ഊFrom: Robin Carroll-Mann ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀愀爀爀漀琀ⴀ䌀栀攀攀猀攀 倀椀攀 ⠀爀攀挀椀瀀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀搀愀挀琀椀漀渀⤀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊ-----Original Message----- ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 匀甀猀愀渀 䘀漀砀ⴀ䐀愀瘀椀猀 㰀猀攀氀攀渀攀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊ> Carrot Cheese Pie may not sound appetizing to those un-socialized to the ਀㸀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 䌀漀漀欀椀渀最 愀猀琀栀攀琀椀挀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䌀愀爀爀漀琀 䌀愀欀攀 愀渀搀 䌀栀攀攀猀攀 䌀愀欀攀 搀漀⸀  䜀漀ഊ> figure. I think this recipe [and your redaction] sound yummy! ਀ഊIt went over well at the feast. Leftovers were made available to the ਀瀀漀瀀甀氀愀挀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 搀椀猀愀瀀瀀攀愀爀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀㸀 䄀 猀渀愀椀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀 䰀椀戀爀漀Ⰰ 倀䄀刀䄀 䠀䄀娀䔀刀 䌀伀匀吀刀䄀䐀䄀匀 䐀䔀 䌀䄀刀䄀䌀伀䰀䔀匀ഊ> SACADOS DE LA ਀㸀 䌀䄀匀䌀䄀刀䄀 ⴀⴀ 吀漀 䴀愀欀攀 䌀愀欀攀猀 漀昀 匀渀愀椀氀猀 刀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 匀栀攀氀氀Ⰰ 挀愀氀氀猀 昀漀爀 ∀愀ഊ> little grated Pinto Cheese" which implies something about its texture ਀㸀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 渀漀琀 猀漀昀琀 氀椀欀攀 刀椀挀漀琀琀愀Ⰰ 礀攀猀渀漀㼀ഊ ਀吀爀甀攀⸀  䤀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀攀搀 洀漀稀稀愀爀攀氀氀愀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 瀀椀渀琀漀 挀栀攀攀猀攀㬀 琀栀攀 爀椀挀漀琀琀愀 眀愀猀 ഊserving as "new cheese". ਀ഊLady Brighid ni Chiarain ਀䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 匀攀琀琀洀漀甀爀 匀眀愀洀瀀Ⰰ 䔀愀猀琀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:32:33 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䈀椀氀氀 䘀椀猀栀攀爀 㰀氀椀愀洀昀椀猀栀攀爀 愀琀 最洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Carrot-Cheese Pie (recipe and redaction) ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀　㨀㈀㠀㨀㔀　 ⴀ　㔀　　 ⠀䜀䴀吀ⴀ　㔀㨀　　⤀Ⰰ 刀漀戀椀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䴀愀渀渀ഊ wrote: ਀㸀 䠀攀爀攀✀猀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 䤀 眀愀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀椀渀最⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 吀漀爀琀愀 搀攀 娀愀渀愀栀漀爀椀愀 ⠀䌀愀爀爀漀琀 倀椀攀⤀ഊ> pound of Tronchon cheese and a pound and a half of buttery Pinto ਀㸀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀椀砀 漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 昀爀攀猀栀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰഊ ਀夀漀甀 挀漀甀氀搀 甀猀攀 儀甀攀猀漀 䈀氀愀渀挀漀 昀漀爀 愀 渀攀眀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀Ⰰ 䤀✀瘀攀 甀猀攀搀 椀琀 戀攀昀漀爀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀 愀 挀甀爀搀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 ⠀椀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 氀椀欀攀 挀漀洀瀀愀挀琀攀搀 挀漀琀琀愀最攀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 椀琀 椀猀⤀ 栀愀猀 愀 渀椀挀攀 昀爀攀猀栀 琀愀猀琀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀攀氀琀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀  䐀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 礀漀甀爀 氀漀挀愀氀 洀愀爀欀攀琀Ⰰ 䤀 眀愀猀 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 椀琀 椀渀 倀䄀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 氀椀瘀攀搀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀渀搀 甀猀攀搀 椀琀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 洀愀搀攀 琀愀爀琀猀 琀栀愀琀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 昀漀爀 昀爀攀猀栀 挀栀攀攀猀攀⸀ഊ ਀䤀昀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀礀 挀愀爀渀椀挀攀爀椀愀猀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 愀爀攀愀 琀栀攀礀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 椀琀⸀  䤀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀琀 愀琀 匀栀愀搀礀 䴀愀瀀氀攀 甀瀀 椀渀 倀䄀 愀渀搀 愀琀 䜀椀愀渀琀⸀  䘀愀爀洀攀爀✀猀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 椀猀 愀 渀攀眀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 甀猀攀 最漀愀琀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 昀漀爀 吀爀漀渀挀栀漀渀⸀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 最漀 眀椀琀栀 愀 爀愀眀 洀椀氀欀 漀渀攀 琀栀漀甀最栀Ⰰഊthey tend to be stronger in flavor. ਀ഊCadoc ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㠀㨀㌀㄀㨀㐀㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　 ⠀䜀䴀吀ⴀ　㔀㨀　　⤀ഊFrom: Robin Carroll-Mann ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀愀爀爀漀琀ⴀ䌀栀攀攀猀攀 倀椀攀 椀渀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊOkay, I've located the original recipe in Scappi's "Opera". It's at: ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀愀氀昀愀洀愀⸀猀椀洀⸀甀挀洀⸀攀猀⼀搀椀漀猀挀漀爀椀搀攀猀⼀挀漀渀猀甀氀琀愀开氀椀戀爀漀⸀愀猀瀀㼀爀攀昀㴀堀㔀㌀㌀㌀㔀㄀㤀㔀㄀ഊGo to image 739. ਀ഊI could use some help from the Italian readers out there. (Helwyse, ਀礀漀甀 氀椀猀琀攀渀椀渀最㼀⤀ഊ ਀䤀琀 挀愀氀氀猀 昀漀爀 漀渀攀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 最爀愀琀攀搀 倀愀爀洀愀猀愀渀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 漀爀 开开开开开开开开开 ⠀挀愀渀✀琀 爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀⤀ഊA pound and a half of fatty cheese ਀匀椀砀 漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 瀀爀漀瘀愀琀甀爀愀ഊ ਀吀漀 爀攀昀爀攀猀栀 礀漀甀爀 洀攀洀漀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀✀猀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 挀愀氀氀猀 昀漀爀 ∀愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀  ഊTronchon cheese and a pound and a half of buttery Pinto cheese, and six ਀漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 昀爀攀猀栀 挀栀攀攀猀攀∀⸀ഊ ਀䰀愀搀礀 䈀爀椀最栀椀搀 渀椀 䌀栀椀愀爀愀椀渀ഊBarony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㈀　㨀㄀㤀㨀㌀㌀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Bill Fisher ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀愀爀爀漀琀ⴀ䌀栀攀攀猀攀 倀椀攀 椀渀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀ഊTo: Robin Carroll-Mann , Cooks within the SCA ਀ऀ㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㠀㨀㌀㄀㨀㐀㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　 ⠀䜀䴀吀ⴀ　㔀㨀　　⤀Ⰰ 刀漀戀椀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䴀愀渀渀ഊ wrote: ਀㸀 伀欀愀礀Ⰰ 䤀✀瘀攀 氀漀挀愀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀渀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀✀猀 ∀伀瀀攀爀愀∀⸀  䤀琀✀猀 愀琀㨀ഊ> http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?ref=X533351951 ਀㸀 䜀漀 琀漀 椀洀愀最攀 㜀㌀㤀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䤀 挀漀甀氀搀 甀猀攀 猀漀洀攀 栀攀氀瀀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 爀攀愀搀攀爀猀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀⸀  ⠀䠀攀氀眀礀猀攀Ⰰ  ഊ> you listening?) ਀㸀ഊ> It calls for one pound of grated Parmasan cheese or _________ (can't ਀㸀 爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀⤀ഊ> A pound and a half of fatty cheese ਀㸀 匀椀砀 漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 瀀爀漀瘀愀琀甀爀愀ഊ> ਀㸀 吀漀 爀攀昀爀攀猀栀 礀漀甀爀 洀攀洀漀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀✀猀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 挀愀氀氀猀 昀漀爀 ∀愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀  ഊ> Tronchon cheese and a pound and a half of buttery Pinto cheese, and ਀㸀 猀椀砀 漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 昀爀攀猀栀 挀栀攀攀猀攀∀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䰀愀搀礀 䈀爀椀最栀椀搀 渀椀 䌀栀椀愀爀愀椀渀ഊ ਀䤀 戀氀攀眀 椀琀 甀瀀Ⰰ 椀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 氀椀欀攀 刀椀甀椀攀爀愀Ⰰ 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 昀爀漀洀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 愀琀 琀栀攀 猀挀爀椀瀀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊrest of the document. No idea what it means, but I have found references ਀漀渀氀椀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 挀漀爀爀攀氀愀琀攀 琀漀 刀椀瘀攀爀 刀椀甀椀攀爀愀 搀攀 䜀攀渀甀愀  ⴀ 刀椀瘀椀攀爀愀 搀攀 䜀攀渀漀瘀愀 ⴀ 刀椀瘀攀爀 漀昀 䜀攀渀漀瘀愀ഊ ਀䄀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀渀礀 椀琀愀氀椀愀渀 挀栀攀攀猀攀猀 愀最攀搀 渀攀愀爀 爀椀瘀攀爀猀 漀爀 洀愀礀戀攀 爀椀瘀攀爀 挀愀瘀攀猀㼀ഊ ਀䴀愀礀戀攀 椀琀 椀猀 愀 戀氀攀甀 挀栀攀攀猀攀㼀 䜀漀爀最漀渀稀漀氀愀ഊ ਀䌀愀搀漀挀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:35:58 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pinto cheese? ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀圀栀椀氀攀 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 瀀爀漀瘀攀 椀琀Ⰰ 䤀 猀甀猀瀀攀挀琀 倀椀渀琀漀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 漀渀挀攀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀ഊPinto, Spain (near Madrid). The region is mostly industrial these days and ਀洀漀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 漀氀搀 愀最爀椀挀甀氀琀甀爀愀氀 戀愀猀攀 椀猀 氀漀渀最 最漀渀攀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀ഊto Pinto cheese in a poem from around the early 17th Century. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ> I haven't been able to find a mention of this cheese anywhere. Could it ਀㸀 瀀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 戀攀 愀 洀椀猀瀀爀漀渀甀渀挀椀愀琀椀漀渀⼀洀椀猀猀瀀攀氀氀椀渀最 昀漀爀 愀 䌀愀琀愀氀愀渀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 渀愀洀攀搀 倀椀挀渀㼀ഊ> ਀㸀 倀椀挀渀Ⰰ 愀 挀氀漀猀攀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀 漀昀 䌀愀戀爀愀氀攀猀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䌀愀渀琀愀戀爀椀愀渀 瘀椀氀氀愀最攀猀 漀昀ഊ> Bejes and Tresviso. The cheeses are soft inside, some spreadably and others ਀㸀 挀爀甀洀戀氀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 挀甀琀 爀攀瘀攀愀氀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 最愀氀氀攀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 挀愀瘀攀爀渀猀 椀渀栀愀戀椀琀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀ഊ> greenish-blue mold which gives them their characteristic strong big complex ਀㸀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䬀愀琀攀爀礀渀 搀攀 䐀攀瘀攀氀礀渀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:40:25 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Carrot-Cheese Pie in Scappi ਀吀漀㨀 ∀刀漀戀椀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䴀愀渀渀∀ 㰀爀挀洀愀渀渀㐀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀㸀Ⰰऀ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀ഊ SCA" ਀ഊProvatura is a buffalo (not bison) milk cheese with a texture similar to ਀洀漀稀稀愀爀攀氀氀愀⸀  夀漀甀 挀愀渀 甀猀攀 洀漀稀稀愀爀攀氀氀愀 愀猀 愀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀攀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀㸀 伀欀愀礀Ⰰ 䤀✀瘀攀 氀漀挀愀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀渀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀✀猀 ∀伀瀀攀爀愀∀⸀  䤀琀✀猀 愀琀㨀ഊ> http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?ref=X533351951 ਀㸀 䜀漀 琀漀 椀洀愀最攀 㜀㌀㤀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䤀琀 挀愀氀氀猀 昀漀爀 漀渀攀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 最爀愀琀攀搀 倀愀爀洀愀猀愀渀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 漀爀 开开开开开开开开开 ⠀挀愀渀✀琀  ഊ> read the word) ਀㸀 䄀 瀀漀甀渀搀 愀渀搀 愀 栀愀氀昀 漀昀 昀愀琀琀礀 挀栀攀攀猀攀ഊ> Six ounces of provatura ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 　㘀㨀㔀㔀㨀㌀　 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Louise Smithson ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 䌀愀爀爀漀琀ⴀ䌀栀攀攀猀攀 倀椀攀 椀渀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org ਀ഊ>>>> ਀伀欀愀礀Ⰰ 䤀✀瘀攀 氀漀挀愀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀渀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀✀猀 ∀伀瀀攀爀愀∀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 愀琀㨀ഊhttp://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?ref=X533351951 ਀䜀漀 琀漀 椀洀愀最攀 㜀㌀㤀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 挀漀甀氀搀 甀猀攀 猀漀洀攀 栀攀氀瀀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 爀攀愀搀攀爀猀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀⸀ ⠀䠀攀氀眀礀猀攀Ⰰ 礀漀甀  ഊlistening?) ਀ഊIt calls for one pound of grated Parmasan cheese or _________ (can't ਀爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀⤀ഊA pound and a half of fatty cheese ਀匀椀砀 漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 瀀爀漀瘀愀琀甀爀愀ഊ ਀吀漀 爀攀昀爀攀猀栀 礀漀甀爀 洀攀洀漀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀✀猀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 挀愀氀氀猀 昀漀爀 ∀愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀  ഊTronchon cheese and a pound and a half of buttery Pinto cheese, and six ਀漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 昀爀攀猀栀 挀栀攀攀猀攀∀⸀ഊ<<<< ਀ഊAsk and you shall receive. (I have not transcribed it for speed and ਀猀瀀愀挀攀⤀⸀ഊ ਀吀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀 瀀椀攀 漀昀 挀愀爀爀漀琀猀 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀 爀漀漀琀猀 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀 琀栀椀渀最猀⸀  䌀栀愀瀀琀攀爀 ㄀㄀㄀ഊ ਀圀愀猀栀 愀渀搀 瀀攀攀氀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀爀漀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀愀爀戀漀椀氀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀  ഊout of the water and put them to cook in good meat broth. When they ਀愀爀攀 挀漀漀欀攀搀 琀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 漀甀琀 愀渀搀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 瘀攀爀礀 猀洀愀氀氀 眀椀琀栀 愀 欀渀椀昀攀⸀  䄀搀搀  ഊmint and marjoram and for every two pounds of chopped carrots add a ਀瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 倀愀爀洀攀最椀愀渀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 漀爀 漀昀 刀椀瘀椀攀爀愀  最爀愀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 瀀漀甀渀搀 愀渀搀 愀 栀愀氀昀  ഊof fat cheese and six ounces of provatura. One ounce of pepper ground, ਀琀眀漀 漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 一愀瀀漀氀攀琀愀渀 戀椀猀挀漀琀琀椀 最爀漀甀渀搀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 漀甀渀挀攀 漀昀 挀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀Ⰰ 琀眀漀  ഊounces of candied sour orange peel cut small, one poind of sugar, eight ਀攀最最猀Ⰰ 琀栀爀攀攀 漀甀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ 䄀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 洀椀砀琀甀爀攀 洀愀欀攀 愀 瀀椀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀  ഊsheet (of pastry) below and above and "tortiglione sfogliato" around, ਀愀渀搀 挀漀漀欀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀 漀爀 甀渀搀攀爀 愀 ∀琀攀猀琀漀∀⸀  䴀愀欀攀 愀 挀爀甀猀琀 ⠀椀挀椀渀最⤀ 眀椀琀栀  ഊsugar and cinnamon and rose water. In this way you can make a tart of ਀愀渀礀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 瀀愀爀猀渀椀瀀 漀爀 爀漀漀琀 漀昀 瀀愀爀猀氀攀礀Ⰰ 栀愀瘀椀渀最 攀洀瀀琀椀攀搀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀  ഊheart/seed. ਀ഊNotes: Parmesan - a hard salty cheese, ਀刀椀瘀椀攀爀愀 ⴀ 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 栀愀爀搀 愀最攀搀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 琀栀椀渀欀 漀昀 最爀愀渀漀 瀀愀搀愀渀漀⸀ഊfat cheese - never quite worked out what this is other than a fresh, ਀猀漀昀琀攀爀 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 洀愀礀戀攀 愀欀椀渀 琀漀 昀愀爀洀攀爀猀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 戀甀琀 椀猀 渀漀琀 爀椀挀漀琀琀愀 伀刀  ഊmozzarella because those are always refered to by name. ਀倀爀漀瘀愀琀甀爀愀 ⴀ 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 洀漀稀稀愀爀攀氀氀愀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 戀甀昀昀愀氀漀 洀椀氀欀⸀ഊNapoletan biscotti - biscotti made with flour, eggs, sugar, aniseed and ਀椀昀 䤀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 爀椀最栀琀氀礀 洀甀猀欀⸀  伀昀琀攀渀 甀猀攀搀 愀猀 愀 琀栀椀挀欀攀渀椀渀最 愀最攀渀琀⸀ഊPies were frequently embelished around the rim with Tortiglione ਀猀昀漀最氀椀愀琀漀⸀  吀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀 䤀 挀愀渀 最椀瘀攀 椀猀 漀昀 瘀攀爀礀 琀栀椀渀 氀愀礀攀爀猀 漀昀  ഊpasty (think flaky or filo) layered and then twisted into rounds. ਀吀栀攀 吀攀猀琀漀 椀猀 琀栀攀 搀甀琀挀栀 漀瘀攀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 爀攀渀愀椀猀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 愀氀氀漀眀猀 礀漀甀 琀漀  ഊcook pies in the coals of the fire. ਀吀栀攀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀爀 氀椀戀爀漀 椀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀㈀ 洀漀搀攀爀渀 漀甀渀挀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䠀攀氀攀眀礀猀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:07:19 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 爀愀渀瘀愀椀最 愀琀 挀漀氀甀洀戀甀猀⸀爀爀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pie crust was what's wierd-ish, what isn't ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䌀愀椀氀琀攀 愀猀欀攀搀㨀ഊ> speaking of pastry and pie crust.... i am about to do 700 small ਀㸀 猀愀氀洀漀渀 瀀愀猀琀椀攀猀⸀ 栀愀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 洀愀搀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀渀 愀 昀漀漀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀㼀  栀漀眀ഊ> do you do it, and does it work well? ਀ഊI have use a food processor. It might not be quite as flaky, but its ਀洀漀爀攀 琀栀愀渀 愀挀挀攀瀀琀愀戀氀攀⸀  唀猀攀 琀栀攀 瀀甀氀猀攀 挀礀挀氀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 猀甀爀攀 礀漀甀 搀漀渀✀琀ഊcut the fat in too finely, leave pieces the size of peas, then pulse ਀椀渀 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀⸀  匀琀漀瀀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 椀琀 焀甀椀琀攀 昀漀爀洀猀 愀 戀愀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀刀愀渀瘀愀椀最ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:00:07 -0800 (PST) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 匀愀洀爀愀栀 㰀愀甀渀琀椀攀开猀愀洀爀愀栀 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pie crust was what's wierd-ish, what isn't ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䌀愀椀氀琀攀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊspeaking of pastry and pie crust.... i am about to do 700 ਀猀洀愀氀氀 猀愀氀洀漀渀 瀀愀猀琀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀  唀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀攀氀礀Ⰰ 䤀 愀洀 渀漀琀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 洀漀爀攀 琀栀愀渀 ㄀ 挀爀甀猀琀 愀琀 ഊtime (she could do 2), and a pastry blender ("d-shaped" hand tool with ਀氀漀琀猀 漀昀 眀椀爀攀猀 戀攀渀琀 椀渀 栀愀氀昀 挀椀爀挀氀攀⤀ 椀猀 渀漀眀 洀礀 ∀眀攀愀瀀漀渀∀ 漀昀 挀栀漀椀挀攀⸀ഊ ਀䄀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 椀琀 洀愀欀攀猀 洀攀 昀攀攀氀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 椀渀琀攀氀氀攀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 挀栀愀氀氀攀渀最攀搀 琀漀 愀搀洀椀琀 椀琀Ⰰ ഊI can be a rather slow learner. Originally for pasties, I was rolling ਀漀甀琀 愀氀氀 漀昀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀 挀甀琀琀椀渀最 椀琀 椀渀 挀椀爀挀氀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 愀 猀愀氀愀搀 瀀氀愀琀攀⸀  ഊMakes the dough awful tough when you rework it. Tried adding sour ਀挀爀攀愀洀 愀渀搀 氀漀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀椀渀欀猀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀 昀氀愀欀椀攀爀⸀  䘀椀渀愀氀氀礀 氀攀愀爀渀攀搀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀 ഊroll/log, cut off slices and roll each pasty crust separately. Better ਀挀爀甀猀琀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 愀洀 猀甀爀攀 礀漀甀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀愀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 椀琀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀渀 ഊcase we had anyone who didn't. Although better (ie softer, flakier) ਀挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 洀甀挀栀 氀攀猀猀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 愀洀 渀漀琀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀 䤀 愀洀 ഊdevoted enough to roll out 700 pasties individually. ਀ഊGood luck with your pasties--all 700 of 'em ;0) ਀ഊSamrah ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㐀㨀㐀㠀㨀㌀㤀 ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: David Friedman ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 眀愀猀 眀栀愀琀✀猀 眀椀攀爀搀ⴀ椀猀栀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 椀猀渀✀琀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊcailte asked: ਀㸀 猀瀀攀愀欀椀渀最 漀昀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 愀渀搀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀⸀⸀⸀ 椀 愀洀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀漀 搀漀 㜀　　 猀洀愀氀氀ഊ> salmon pasties. has anyone made pie crust in a food processor? how ਀㸀 搀漀 礀漀甀 搀漀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 搀漀攀猀 椀琀 眀漀爀欀 眀攀氀氀㼀ഊ ਀䤀琀 椀猀 栀漀眀 䤀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 搀漀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 礀攀猀Ⰰ 椀琀 眀漀爀欀猀 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 最椀瘀椀渀最 洀攀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀ഊresults as if I do it by hand. I use the food processor to cut the ਀戀甀琀琀攀爀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 搀甀洀瀀 椀渀琀漀 愀 戀漀眀氀 愀渀搀 洀椀砀 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 椀渀 戀礀ഊhand. In fact, I posted my description of doing it to this list a ਀眀攀攀欀 漀爀 琀眀漀 愀最漀ⴀⴀ䤀✀氀氀 爀攀瀀攀愀琀 琀栀愀琀 瀀漀猀琀 愀琀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀⸀ഊ ਀䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀 漀昀 䐀攀渀搀攀爀洀漀渀搀攀⼀䈀攀琀琀礀 䌀漀漀欀ഊ---------- ਀ഊCynara wrote: ਀ഊ> You said you made the pie crusts in advance and froze them. Do you have a ਀㸀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀漀爀攀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀愀渀琀氀礀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀攀爀猀 漀渀 洀愀欀椀渀最 最漀漀搀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀㼀 唀瀀ഊ> until now I have relied on pre-made crusts, but Pillsbury just recently ਀㸀 挀栀愀渀最攀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀愀挀欀愀最椀渀最 漀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 爀攀昀爀椀最攀爀愀琀攀搀 挀爀甀猀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀 猀攀攀洀猀 ഊ> like they ਀㸀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀猀漀 挀栀愀渀最攀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 昀漀爀洀甀氀愀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 猀椀稀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀 搀漀甀最栀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ഊ> At any rate, I haven't had good luck with the new crusts. And my local ਀㸀 最爀漀挀攀爀礀 椀猀 渀漀 氀漀渀最攀爀 挀愀爀爀礀椀渀最 琀栀攀 䴀爀猀⸀ 匀洀椀琀栀✀猀 ⠀搀愀椀爀礀ⴀ昀爀攀攀⤀ 昀爀漀稀攀渀 猀栀攀氀氀猀⸀ഊ> So I have to learn to make my own. I would need to use either vegetable ਀㸀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最 漀爀 猀漀礀 洀愀爀最愀爀椀渀攀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀䘀漀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 渀漀 椀渀搀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 眀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀Ⰰ 䤀 甀猀攀ഊa standard modern flaky pie crust made with partly whole wheat flour ਀愀渀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 椀琀 挀愀渀 戀攀 搀漀渀攀 眀椀琀栀 洀愀爀最愀爀椀渀攀⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀 椀搀攀愀ഊwhether or not this is right--I know of no pie crust recipes before ਀琀栀攀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀猀 琀栀攀渀 椀渀挀氀甀搀攀 戀漀琀栀 ∀猀栀漀爀琀 瀀愀猀琀攀∀ 愀渀搀ഊpie crusts without fat. ਀ഊFor two 9" crusts, mix 2/3 c whole wheat flour and 1 1/3 c white ਀昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 挀甀琀 愀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀 椀猀 椀渀ഊvery small lumps (I generally use a food processor for this; I have ਀搀漀渀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 琀眀漀 欀渀椀瘀攀猀 挀甀琀琀椀渀最 堀ⴀ眀椀猀攀 愀最愀椀渀猀琀 攀愀挀栀 漀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀ഊfor feast quantities), then add about 6 tablespoons of water a ਀猀瀀漀漀渀昀甀氀 漀爀 琀眀漀 愀琀 愀 琀椀洀攀 愀渀搀 洀椀砀 瘀攀爀礀 挀愀爀攀昀甀氀氀礀 眀椀琀栀 愀 昀漀爀欀 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀ഊstarts to hang together, working it as little as possible. I roll ਀琀栀攀洀 漀甀琀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀眀漀 猀栀攀攀琀猀 漀昀 眀愀砀攀搀 瀀愀瀀攀爀 椀渀琀漀 愀 挀椀爀挀氀攀 琀栀攀 搀椀愀洀攀琀攀爀ഊof the waxed paper, remove one sheet of waxed paper and loosen the ਀漀琀栀攀爀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 椀渀瘀攀爀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀渀琀漀 愀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀渀 ⠀椀琀 戀攀椀渀最 愀 氀漀琀ഊeasier to peel waxed paper off the pie crust when it is lying flat ਀琀栀愀渀 愀昀琀攀爀 椀琀 椀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀渀⤀⸀ 倀甀琀 椀渀琀漀 愀 最愀氀氀漀渀 稀椀瀀ⴀ氀漀挀欀 戀愀最Ⰰഊsqueeze the air out and seal, and you can have a stack of these ਀猀椀琀琀椀渀最 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 昀爀攀攀稀攀爀 昀漀爀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 渀攀攀搀 琀栀攀洀⸀ 䤀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 漀渀攀ഊearlier occasion for a larger feast when we had a real assembly line ਀最漀椀渀最 椀渀 洀礀 欀椀琀挀栀攀渀 愀渀搀 搀椀渀椀渀最 爀漀漀洀 洀愀欀椀渀最 ㈀　 漀爀 洀漀爀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 昀漀爀ഊthe event a few weeks away. It is a way of getting a labor-intensive ਀樀漀戀 漀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 氀攀椀猀甀爀攀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀Ⰰ 愀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 䤀ഊcan tell, compromising quality. ਀ഊElizabeth/Betty Cook ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㔀㨀㄀㐀㨀㄀㘀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Chris Stanifer ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 眀愀猀 眀栀愀琀✀猀 眀椀攀爀搀ⴀ椀猀栀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 椀猀渀✀琀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊ--- David Friedman wrote: ਀㸀 挀愀椀氀琀攀 愀猀欀攀搀㨀ഊ>> speaking of pastry and pie crust.... i am about to do 700 small ਀㸀㸀 猀愀氀洀漀渀 瀀愀猀琀椀攀猀⸀ 栀愀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 洀愀搀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀渀 愀 昀漀漀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀㼀  栀漀眀ഊ>> do you do it, and does it work well? ਀㸀ഊ> It is how I usually do it, and yes, it works well, giving me the same ਀㸀 爀攀猀甀氀琀猀 愀猀 椀昀 䤀 搀漀 椀琀 戀礀 栀愀渀搀⸀ 䤀 甀猀攀 琀栀攀 昀漀漀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀 琀漀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀ഊ> butter into the flour, then dump into a bowl and mix the water in by ਀㸀 栀愀渀搀⸀ 䤀渀 昀愀挀琀Ⰰ 䤀 瀀漀猀琀攀搀 洀礀 搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 搀漀椀渀最 椀琀 琀漀 琀栀椀猀 氀椀猀琀 愀ഊ> week or two ago--I'll repeat that post at the bottom of this. ਀ഊThis is a much faster way to do the pie crust, and if you have a plastic blade attachment for your food processor, you can even mix the pastry to completion in it. Place all of your liquid into the bowl at one time, and mix only until the mass comes together, and not a moment longer. If you drizzle the liquid in, or add it in batches, you'll over mix the dough, so make sure your recipe is ਀愀挀挀甀爀愀琀攀⸀ഊ ਀圀椀氀氀椀愀洀 搀攀 䜀爀愀渀搀昀漀爀琀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:52:29 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䈀椀氀氀 䘀椀猀栀攀爀 㰀氀椀愀洀昀椀猀栀攀爀 愀琀 最洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pie crust was what's wierd-ish, what isn't ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㄀㨀　㜀㨀㄀㤀 ⴀ　㔀　　Ⰰ 爀愀渀瘀愀椀最 愀琀 挀漀氀甀洀戀甀猀⸀爀爀⸀挀漀洀ഊ wrote: ਀㸀㸀 猀瀀攀愀欀椀渀最 漀昀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 愀渀搀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀⸀⸀⸀ 椀 愀洀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀漀 搀漀 㜀　　 猀洀愀氀氀ഊ>> salmon pasties. has anyone made pie crust in a food processor? how ਀㸀㸀 搀漀 礀漀甀 搀漀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 搀漀攀猀 椀琀 眀漀爀欀 眀攀氀氀㼀ഊ> ਀㸀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 甀猀攀 愀 昀漀漀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀⸀  䤀琀 洀椀最栀琀 渀漀琀 戀攀 焀甀椀琀攀 愀猀 昀氀愀欀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀猀ഊ> more than acceptable. Use the pulse cycle and make sure you don't ਀㸀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 椀渀 琀漀漀 昀椀渀攀氀礀Ⰰ 氀攀愀瘀攀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀 琀栀攀 猀椀稀攀 漀昀 瀀攀愀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 瀀甀氀猀攀ഊ> in the water. Stop before it quite forms a ball. ਀㸀ഊ> Ranvaig ਀ഊI freeze the fat first, cut it in with the machine till it looks ok, ਀爀攀ⴀ昀爀攀攀稀攀 椀琀 愀最愀椀渀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 眀漀爀欀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 戀礀 栀愀渀搀⸀  吀栀攀渀ഊrest it in the fridge till I need to use it, wrapped in plastic ਀眀爀愀瀀⸀  䤀 昀椀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 昀爀攀攀稀椀渀最猀 欀攀攀瀀猀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 ⠀甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 戀甀琀琀攀爀ഊfor me) from melting and prematurely causing the gluten ਀猀琀爀愀渀搀猀 琀漀 猀眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀攀 眀栀椀爀爀椀渀最 戀氀愀搀攀猀 漀昀 愀 昀漀漀搀ഊprocessor generate quite a bit of heat. ਀ഊI work the dough as little as possible, kind of like making ਀愀 戀椀猀挀甀椀琀⸀   䈀甀琀 椀昀 䤀 渀攀攀搀 椀琀 琀漀 戀攀 猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 椀琀猀 漀眀渀Ⰰ 䤀ഊabuse it a bit to create some gluten. ਀ഊI've also made pie dough with oil as well, it is an interesting ਀琀攀砀琀甀爀攀⸀ഊ ਀䌀愀搀漀挀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 04:31:29 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀刀甀琀栀 吀愀渀渀愀栀椀氀氀∀ 㰀爀琀愀渀栀椀氀 愀琀 昀愀猀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Re: tips for making better pies ਀吀漀㨀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀匀漀 猀瀀漀欀攀 䄀渀愀栀椀琀愀㨀ഊ> So first, he suggests for the crust: make it with less liquid and ਀㸀 洀漀爀攀 昀愀琀⸀ 吀栀攀 昀愀琀 眀椀氀氀 爀攀瀀攀氀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 洀漀椀猀琀渀攀猀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀夀攀瀀⸀ 䤀 搀漀 琀栀愀琀 眀栀攀渀 䤀✀洀 洀愀欀椀渀最 瀀椀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 眀椀氀氀 昀椀氀氀 愀渀搀 戀愀欀攀 琀栀愀琀 搀愀礀⸀ 䤀ഊdeliberately add a bit more fat (shortening or butter, depending on the ਀愀甀搀椀攀渀挀攀⤀ 愀渀搀 氀攀猀猀 眀愀琀攀爀⸀ 䈀甀琀 䤀 昀椀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 眀栀攀渀 䤀✀洀 洀愀欀椀渀最 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 琀漀 昀爀攀攀稀攀ഊand roll out later, or pie shells to freeze and fill later, or transport to ਀愀渀 攀瘀攀渀琀 愀渀搀 昀椀氀氀 琀栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 栀椀最栀 昀愀琀 爀愀琀椀漀 洀愀欀攀猀 琀栀攀洀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 琀漀漀 戀爀椀琀琀氀攀ഊfor easy handling. In other words, if I'm going to make the pastry and bake ਀琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 琀栀攀渀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 䤀 最漀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 爀椀挀栀攀爀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀ 䤀昀 琀栀攀爀攀✀猀 猀琀漀爀愀最攀 漀爀ഊtransport involved, I sacrifice a bit of crispness, flakiness, and ਀琀攀渀搀攀爀渀攀猀猀 昀漀爀 愀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 眀漀渀✀琀 搀椀猀椀渀琀椀最爀愀琀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 洀漀爀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 礀漀甀 愀搀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀ഊmore gluten will toughen the dough. It will hold together better in storage ਀漀爀 琀爀愀渀猀瀀漀爀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 礀漀甀 樀甀猀琀 眀漀渀✀琀 最攀琀 琀栀愀琀 挀爀椀猀瀀ⴀ礀攀琀ⴀ洀攀氀琀椀渀最 挀爀甀猀琀 䤀 挀愀渀 最攀琀ഊwhen I know the pies won't be handled a lot between prep and serving. ਀倀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 眀栀礀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 椀猀 猀漀 搀甀爀愀戀氀攀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 愀 琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀愀氀 瀀椀挀渀椀挀 昀漀漀搀Ⰰഊused for something like pork pies, and needs to be able to handle a bit of ਀爀漀甀最栀 栀愀渀搀氀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀㸀 吀栀攀渀Ⰰ 猀攀挀漀渀搀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最㨀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀 氀攀猀猀 洀漀椀猀琀 戀礀 瀀爀攀ⴀ挀漀漀欀椀渀最 椀琀ഊ> to some extent before putting into crust to bake. ਀ഊI routinely do this with fruit fillings. I cook the fruit with whatever ਀戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 猀甀最愀爀 䤀✀洀 最漀椀渀最 琀漀 甀猀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 愀氀氀漀眀 椀琀 琀漀 挀漀漀氀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 琀栀攀ഊpies. You must let the filling cool. Otherwise you'll melt the fat in the ਀瀀愀猀琀爀礀 愀渀搀 氀漀猀攀 琀栀攀 昀氀愀欀椀渀攀猀猀⸀ 䄀氀氀 琀栀攀 攀砀琀爀愀 氀椀焀甀椀搀 眀椀氀氀 搀漀 椀猀 猀琀攀愀洀 琀栀攀ഊcrust. Also, once the filling is cooked (sweated out is probably a more ਀愀瀀瀀爀漀瀀爀椀愀琀攀 琀攀爀洀Ⰰ 猀椀渀挀攀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀渀✀琀 最漀椀渀最 昀漀爀 洀甀猀栀⤀Ⰰ 椀琀 眀漀渀✀琀 猀栀爀椀渀欀 愀猀 洀甀挀栀ഊor bubble over. You can get a pie with a domed top that will stay that way ਀琀栀爀漀甀最栀漀甀琀 愀渀搀 愀昀琀攀爀 戀愀欀椀渀最⸀ 䰀攀猀猀 氀椀欀攀氀椀栀漀漀搀 漀昀 漀瘀攀渀 猀瀀椀氀氀漀瘀攀爀 愀挀挀椀搀攀渀琀猀Ⰰഊtoo. As an added bonus, you don't need to add as much thickener (e.g. flour) ਀愀猀 礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 眀椀琀栀 爀愀眀 昀爀甀椀琀⸀ 圀栀攀渀 䤀 洀愀欀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 瀀椀攀Ⰰ 愀猀 䤀 眀椀氀氀 椀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 㘀ഊhours, I don't need to add any flour. The apples and butter turn out just ਀昀椀渀攀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 愀渀礀 琀栀椀挀欀攀渀攀爀 愀琀 愀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀䤀昀 䤀 眀攀爀攀 洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀 漀爀 洀攀愀琀 瀀椀攀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 渀漀琀 搀爀攀愀洀 漀昀 甀猀椀渀最 爀愀眀ഊingredients. I would definitely brown the meat and sweat the vegetables. ਀ഊFor custard pies, you really can't cook your filling. I prebake the shells ਀昀漀爀 ㄀　ⴀ㈀　 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀 ⠀搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 猀椀稀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀 漀昀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀ⴀⴀ昀漀爀 愀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀ഊ9" pie with an average crust, 15 minutes is about right). But I prick the ਀戀漀琀琀漀洀 眀椀琀栀 愀 昀漀爀欀 愀渀搀 甀猀攀 搀爀椀攀搀 戀攀愀渀猀 琀漀 欀攀攀瀀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 昀爀漀洀 眀愀爀瀀椀渀最 搀甀爀椀渀最ഊblind baking. ਀ഊ> I haven't had a chance to experiment and test this, but if anyone ਀㸀 最椀瘀攀猀 椀琀 愀 琀爀礀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 爀攀瀀漀爀琀 戀愀挀欀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 愀搀瘀椀挀攀 椀猀 最漀漀搀⸀ 䤀琀 眀漀爀欀猀 昀漀爀 洀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀✀洀 琀栀攀 漀昀昀椀挀椀愀氀 瀀椀攀 戀愀欀攀爀 漀昀 洀礀ഊfamily. ਀ഊWhen baking pies for an event, I often make a few sacrifices. I go for a ਀洀漀爀攀 搀甀爀愀戀氀攀 挀爀甀猀琀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 洀攀愀渀猀 洀漀爀攀 氀椀焀甀椀搀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 樀甀猀琀 攀愀猀椀攀爀 琀漀 栀愀渀搀氀攀 琀栀攀ഊpastry without it falling apart. And I go for speed. Ideally, I would use my ਀昀漀漀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀 琀漀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀 挀漀氀搀 昀愀琀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 搀爀礀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀爀愀渀猀昀攀爀ഊthe result into a bowl, where I would judiciously add water until it just ਀栀攀氀搀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 爀漀氀氀 漀甀琀⸀ 䤀渀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀 洀漀搀攀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 䤀 樀甀猀琀 爀甀渀ഊthe processor and slowly add water, a tablespoon or so at a time, until it ਀昀漀爀洀猀 愀 洀愀猀猀 愀渀搀 猀琀愀爀琀猀 琀栀甀洀瀀椀渀最 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀欀戀漀眀氀⸀ 吀栀愀琀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 洀攀愀渀猀ഊI've reached workable texture. I know that's dough brutality, but it's ਀昀愀猀琀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀爀攀氀椀渀搀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:05:42 -0800 (PST) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䰀愀眀爀攀渀挀攀 䈀愀礀渀攀 㰀猀栀漀渀猀甀开㜀㠀 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Tips for Better Pies ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀㸀㸀㸀ഊ-- "Laura C. Minnick" wrote: ਀∀昀漀爀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最㨀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀 氀攀猀猀 洀漀椀猀琀 戀礀 瀀爀攀ⴀ挀漀漀欀椀渀最 椀琀ഊto some extent...I prebaked the crust for about 10 ਀洀椀渀甀琀攀猀 漀昀 猀漀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 搀爀礀 椀琀 愀 戀椀琀Ⰰ 猀漀 椀琀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀ഊget waterlogged with the filling." ਀㰀㰀㰀ഊ ਀圀栀椀氀攀 愀瀀瀀爀攀渀琀椀挀攀搀 琀漀 愀 匀眀椀猀猀 䴀愀猀琀攀爀 倀愀猀琀爀礀 䌀栀攀昀 䤀 眀愀猀ഊtold and it proved itself true, that whenever we were ਀琀漀 戀愀挀欀 愀 瀀椀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 洀漀椀猀琀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 眀攀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀椀渀攀 琀栀攀ഊprebaked shell with cake crumbs, which would help ਀愀戀猀漀爀戀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 洀漀椀猀琀甀爀攀 愀渀搀 欀攀攀瀀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀ഊfrom becoming soggy. ਀ഊLothar ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ 　㤀 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㔀 ㈀㌀㨀㔀㜀㨀　㠀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Robin Carroll-Mann ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 伀欀愀礀 䠀愀爀氀椀攀渀 䴀匀 ㈀㜀㤀 ☀ 䠀愀爀氀⸀ 䴀匀 㐀　㄀㘀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊMicheal wrote: ਀㸀 唀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀攀氀礀 䤀 挀愀渀 渀漀琀 最攀琀 琀栀攀  戀漀漀欀猀 琀栀攀洀猀攀氀瘀攀猀 礀攀琀⸀ഊ> Cealian Of Moray ਀ഊThose two manuscripts were published by the Early English Text Society ਀愀猀 ∀吀眀漀 䘀椀昀琀攀攀渀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䌀漀漀欀攀爀礀 䈀漀漀欀猀∀⸀  吀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 漀渀氀椀渀攀 愀琀㨀ഊhttp://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/c/cme/cme-idx?type=header&idno=CookBk ਀ഊYou might also look at the Liber Cure Cocorun ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀猀琀愀昀昀ⴀ眀眀眀⸀甀渀椀ⴀ洀愀爀戀甀爀最⸀搀攀⼀縀最氀漀渀椀渀最⼀氀挀挀㌀⸀栀琀洀ഊRecipe #51 "For a Pye" is worth looking at. The pie contains a capon ਀⠀愀瀀瀀愀爀攀渀琀氀礀 眀栀漀氀攀⤀Ⰰ 琀眀漀 眀漀漀搀挀漀挀欀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀 洀愀氀氀愀爀搀Ⰰ 猀漀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀愀琀 眀漀甀氀搀ഊqualify as "grete". ਀ⴀⴀ ഊLady Brighid ni Chiarain ਀䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 匀攀琀琀洀漀甀爀 匀眀愀洀瀀Ⰰ 䔀愀猀琀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:11:59 -0800 (PST) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 倀愀琀 㰀洀漀爀搀漀渀渀愀㈀㈀ 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] re: Okay Harlien MS 279 & Harl. MS 4016 ਀吀漀㨀 匀䌀䄀 䌀漀漀欀猀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䌀攀愀氀椀愀渀 漀昀 䴀漀爀愀礀 愀猀欀攀搀㨀ഊ> are these the only books with Pyes de Paris or Great Pyes , is there ਀㸀 愀渀礀 漀琀栀攀爀 瀀爀椀洀愀爀礀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 眀漀爀欀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀⸀ 䔀瘀攀爀礀眀栀攀爀攀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 琀爀椀攀搀 ഊ> already, refers you directly back to them. Including mincemeat pies ਀㸀 椀渀 渀攀眀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀⸀ 䤀 愀洀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 猀氀椀最栀琀氀礀 洀漀爀攀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀 琀栀攀渀 䤀 ഊ> have been able to find so far. Unfortunately I can not get the books ਀㸀 琀栀攀洀猀攀氀瘀攀猀 礀攀琀⸀ഊ> Cealian Of Moray ਀ഊPyes of Pares ਀ഊHieatt, Constance B. An Ordinance of Pottage: An Edition of the ਀䘀椀昀琀攀攀渀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䌀甀氀椀渀愀爀礀 刀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 椀渀 夀愀氀攀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀✀猀 䴀匀 䈀攀椀渀攀挀欀攀 ഊ163. Published by Prospect Books. 1988. ISBN 0 907325 38 6. Pages 88, ਀㈀　㈀ഊ ਀倀椀攀猀 漀昀 倀愀爀礀猀ഊ ਀䄀 䈀漀欀攀 漀昀 䬀漀欀攀爀礀Ⰰ  昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀愀挀猀椀洀椀氀攀 椀渀 䐀甀欀攀 䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀✀猀 䌀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀 ഊCollection ਀ഊTo make Pyes ਀䄀 倀爀漀瀀爀攀 渀攀眀 戀漀漀欀攀 漀昀 䌀漀欀攀爀礀ഊ ਀䤀 愀洀 猀甀爀攀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀椀戀爀愀爀椀愀渀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 氀椀猀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 挀漀洀攀 甀瀀 眀椀琀栀 ഊmore for you. ਀ഊPat Griffin ਀䰀愀搀礀 䄀渀渀攀 搀甀 䈀漀猀挀ഊknown as Mordonna the Cook ਀匀栀椀爀攀 漀昀 吀栀漀爀渀最椀氀氀Ⰰ 䴀攀爀椀搀椀攀猀ഊMundanely, Millbrook, AL ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㔀 ㄀　㨀㈀㌀㨀㈀㘀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" ਀ऀ㰀愀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀⸀洀愀最椀猀琀攀爀 愀琀 瘀攀爀椀稀漀渀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Okay Harlien MS 279 & Harl. MS 4016 ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䄀氀猀漀 猀瀀爀愀挀栀 䴀椀挀栀攀愀氀㨀ഊ> Actually I was looking for more primary and secondary sources then ਀㸀 琀栀攀 ㈀ ㄀㔀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 挀漀漀欀 戀漀漀欀猀⸀ 圀栀椀挀栀 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 瘀攀爀礀 最漀漀搀 戀漀漀欀猀 愀爀攀ഊ> the source for multitude of other papers of the same topic. I have ਀㸀 挀漀瀀椀攀搀 漀爀 搀漀眀渀氀漀愀搀攀搀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀猀 琀栀攀洀 猀攀氀瘀攀猀 漀爀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 眀栀愀琀✀猀 甀瀀 漀渀ഊ> their web pages. ਀㸀 䐀愀ഊ ਀倀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 琀栀攀 ∀搀攀愀搀 攀渀搀∀ 礀漀甀✀爀攀 爀甀渀渀椀渀最 椀渀琀漀 昀漀爀 昀椀渀搀椀渀最 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀ഊreferences to Great Pies is that the concept may not be English, ਀漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀氀礀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀 琀漀 戀攀 猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 漀氀搀攀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀ഊhuge pies with multiple filling ingredients, but they're in French, ਀䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 甀氀琀椀洀愀琀攀氀礀Ⰰ 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀愀琀 䌀栀椀焀甀愀爀琀 眀爀椀琀攀猀 攀砀琀攀渀猀椀瘀攀氀礀 漀渀 倀椀攀猀 漀昀 倀愀爀洀愀 椀渀 䐀甀 䘀愀椀琀ഊde Cuisine (he gives long, huge, and very detailed accounts for both ਀洀攀愀琀 愀渀搀 昀椀猀栀ⴀ搀愀礀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀猀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀✀猀 樀甀猀琀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 戀椀琀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀ഊthan the T15CCB references to Grete Pyes/Pyes of Parys. There seems ਀琀漀 戀攀 渀漀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 猀甀挀栀 愀 搀椀猀栀 椀渀 吀栀攀 䘀漀爀洀攀 漀昀 䌀甀爀礀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀ഊsurprising, but there's a recipe for Tourtes Parmerienne in the ਀嘀椀愀渀搀椀攀爀 搀攀 吀愀椀氀氀攀瘀攀渀琀 ⠀氀愀琀攀 ㄀㐀琀栀ⴀ挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 瘀愀最甀攀氀礀ഊrecall some reference, at least, to them in the Enseignements, which ਀椀猀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀 猀琀椀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 礀攀愀爀猀 愀最漀Ⰰ 䤀 最甀攀猀猀Ⰰ 愀 昀愀猀挀椀渀愀琀椀渀最ഊarticle in Petits Propos Culinaires about the origins of the huge, ਀洀甀氀琀椀ⴀ氀愀礀攀爀攀搀 瀀椀攀 ⠀䤀 昀漀爀最攀琀 攀砀愀挀琀氀礀 眀栀攀渀Ⰰ 漀爀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀猀甀攀⸀⸀⸀ 䨀漀栀渀渀愀攀㼀ഊCan you help us out with a pointer here?). Anyway, the article ਀猀甀最最攀猀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀栀 挀漀甀氀搀Ⰰ 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 戀攀 䜀爀攀攀欀 漀爀ഊMiddle Eastern, if I'm remembering it correctly. ਀ഊAdamantius ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㔀 ㈀㈀㨀㄀㤀㨀㄀　 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Johnna Holloway ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 伀欀愀礀 䠀愀爀氀椀攀渀 䴀匀 ㈀㜀㤀 ☀ 䠀愀爀氀⸀ 䴀匀 㐀　㄀㘀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊ>>> ਀䤀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 礀攀愀爀猀 愀最漀Ⰰ 䤀 最甀攀猀猀Ⰰ 愀 昀愀猀挀椀渀愀琀椀渀最ഊarticle in Petits Propos Culinaires about the origins of the huge, ਀洀甀氀琀椀ⴀ氀愀礀攀爀攀搀 瀀椀攀 ⠀䤀 昀漀爀最攀琀 攀砀愀挀琀氀礀 眀栀攀渀Ⰰ 漀爀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀猀甀攀⸀⸀ 䨀漀栀渀渀愀攀㼀 䌀愀渀ഊyou help us out with a pointer here?). Anyway, the article suggested the ਀漀爀椀最椀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀栀 挀漀甀氀搀Ⰰ 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 戀攀 䜀爀攀攀欀 漀爀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀Ⰰ 椀昀ഊI'm remembering it correctly. ਀ഊAdamantius ਀㰀㰀㰀ഊ ਀䤀 猀甀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 琀栀漀猀攀 琀栀愀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀 椀 倀倀䌀 㔀㤀 愀渀搀 㘀㄀ ⠀㄀㤀㤀㠀 愀渀搀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀⤀⸀  吀栀攀 倀愀爀洀攀猀愀渀 倀椀攀 戀礀 䄀渀渀愀 䴀愀爀琀攀氀氀漀琀琀椀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀漀猀攀 椀猀猀甀攀猀 椀渀 琀眀漀  ഊparts. She does tie it altogether from the Middle Eastern to Italian recipes ਀昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 䰀椀戀爀漀 瀀攀爀 挀甀漀挀漀⸀ഊ ਀䨀漀栀渀渀愀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:24:01 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䔀氀椀猀攀 䘀氀攀洀椀渀最∀ 㰀愀氀礀猀欀 愀琀 椀砀⸀渀攀琀挀漀洀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Coffyns ਀吀漀㨀 ∀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䜀爀攀攀琀椀渀最猀℀  䤀瘀愀渀 䐀愀礀 栀愀猀 猀漀洀攀 ∀昀愀渀挀礀 瀀椀攀猀∀ 漀渀 栀椀猀 眀攀戀猀椀琀攀ഊ(historicfood.com). With one of them is a carved wooden mould to produce ਀氀攀愀瘀攀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 愀爀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀搀 愀猀 搀攀挀漀爀愀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 琀栀攀 氀椀搀猀⸀  吀栀愀琀 漀甀氀搀 戀攀 愀 昀愀猀琀ഊway for non-artistic types to produce quality decorations in quantity. He ਀愀氀猀漀 猀栀漀眀猀 猀漀洀攀  洀攀琀愀氀 琀椀渀猀 昀漀爀 洀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀 搀攀挀漀爀愀琀椀瘀攀 猀椀搀攀猀⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀猀攀ഊare from the mid-1600s and later. ਀ഊAlys Katharine ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㄀㤀 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㔀 　㤀㨀㄀㘀㨀㔀　 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Daniel Myers ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 䌀漀昀昀礀渀猀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊOn Feb 19, 2005, at 1:59 AM, Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote: ਀㸀 䤀琀 洀愀礀 愀氀猀漀 戀攀 琀栀愀琀 氀愀爀最攀 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀椀渀最 戀椀爀搀猀 ⠀愀猀 漀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀ഊ> custardy variants that may also contain small birds, marrow, etc., in ਀㸀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最⤀Ⰰ 眀攀爀攀 洀愀搀攀 漀昀 琀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 昀爀攀攀ⴀ猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 琀漀 栀攀氀瀀 最攀琀ഊ> them safely to the table intact, and possibly to preserve the filling ਀㸀 昀漀爀 愀 琀椀洀攀 ⠀愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 琀栀愀琀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀 欀椀挀欀 漀昀昀 甀渀琀椀氀 琀栀攀ഊ> seventeenth century, AFAICT, when you start seeing the pie recipes ਀㸀 眀椀琀栀 ∀最爀攀愀琀 猀琀漀爀攀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀∀ 戀攀椀渀最 瀀漀甀爀攀搀 椀渀⤀⸀ 䤀 最甀攀猀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 洀愀礀 栀愀瘀攀ഊ> been some visual expectation on the part of the diner, such that, when ਀㸀 琀栀攀礀 猀愀眀 猀甀挀栀 愀 氀愀爀最攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 攀砀瀀攀挀琀攀搀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 瀀椀最攀漀渀猀ഊ> inside, which is what made the live birds inside so cool... ਀ഊDepends on what you mean by "kick off". Here's two 15th c. recipes and ਀愀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀⸀ 漀渀攀 甀猀椀渀最 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 愀猀 愀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀愀琀椀漀渀 洀攀琀栀漀搀㨀ഊ ਀匀漀甀爀挀攀 嬀䰀椀戀攀爀 挀甀爀攀 挀漀挀漀爀甀洀崀㨀 䘀漀爀 氀礀漀甀爀攀 戀攀猀琀⸀ 吀愀欀攀 搀爀礀攀 昀氀漀甀爀攀Ⰰ 椀渀ഊcofyne hit close, And bake hit hard, as I suppose. Thou may hit kepe ਀愀氀氀攀 琀栀礀猀 昀礀瘀攀 ㌀攀爀攀Ⰰ 吀栀攀爀攀ⴀ眀椀琀栀 愀氀礀攀 洀漀渀礀 洀攀琀攀猀 猀攀爀攀⸀ ⠀䔀渀最氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 挀⸀ഊ1430) ਀ഊSource [Liber cure cocorum]: To keep herb3 over the wyntur. Take floure ਀愀渀搀 爀攀爀攀 琀栀漀 挀漀昀礀渀猀 昀礀渀攀Ⰰ 圀攀氀攀 猀琀漀渀搀愀渀搀攀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀攀渀 猀琀椀渀攀⸀ 吀愀欀攀ഊtenderons of sauge with owte lesyng, And stop one fulle up to tho ryng. ਀吀栀攀渀渀攀 挀氀漀猀攀 琀栀漀 氀礀搀 昀愀礀爀攀 愀渀搀 眀攀氀攀Ⰰ 吀栀愀琀 愀礀爀攀 最漀 渀漀琀 漀甀琀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀 愀ഊdele, Do so with saveray, percil and rewe. And thenne bake hom harde, ਀眀攀氀 渀攀㌀攀 戀爀攀渀搀攀⸀ 匀礀琀栀甀渀Ⰰ 欀攀瀀攀 栀漀洀 搀爀礀攀 愀渀搀 琀漀 栀漀洀 琀攀渀琀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 瀀漀眀搀攀爀ഊschalle be of more vertu, Then opone erthe when hit gru. (England, c. ਀㄀㐀㌀　⤀ഊ ਀匀漀甀爀挀攀 嬀吀栀攀 䜀漀漀搀 䠀甀猀眀椀昀攀猀 䠀愀渀搀洀愀椀搀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 䬀椀琀挀栀攀渀Ⰰ 匀琀甀愀爀琀 倀攀愀挀栀攀礀ഊ(ed.)] To make a pie to keep long. You must first perboile your flesh + ਀瀀爀攀猀猀 椀琀Ⰰ ⬀ 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 瀀爀攀猀猀攀搀Ⰰ 猀攀愀猀漀渀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 瀀攀瀀瀀攀爀 愀渀搀 猀愀氀琀 眀栀椀氀攀猀琀ഊit is hot, then lard it, make your paste of rie flower, it must be very ਀琀栀椀挀欀Ⰰ 漀爀 攀氀猀攀 椀琀 眀椀氀 渀漀琀 栀漀氀搀攀Ⰰ 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 猀攀愀猀漀渀攀搀 ⬀ 氀愀爀搀攀搀Ⰰ 氀愀礀 椀琀ഊin your pie, then cast on it before you close it, a good deale of ਀挀氀漀瘀攀猀 愀渀搀 䴀愀挀攀 戀攀愀琀攀渀 猀洀愀氀氀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 氀愀礀 甀瀀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 愀 最漀漀搀 搀攀愀氀攀 漀昀 䈀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰഊand so close it up: but you must leave a hole in the top of the lid, + ਀眀栀攀渀 椀琀 栀愀琀栀 猀琀漀漀搀 琀眀漀 栀漀甀爀攀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 伀瘀攀渀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 洀甀猀琀 昀椀氀氀 椀琀 愀猀 昀甀氀氀 漀昀ഊvinigar as you can, and then stop the hole as close as you can with ਀瀀愀猀琀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 猀攀琀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 伀瘀攀渀 愀最愀椀渀㨀 礀漀甀爀 伀瘀攀渀 洀甀猀琀 戀攀攀 瘀攀爀椀攀 栀漀琀ഊat the first, and then your pies will keep a great while: the longer ਀礀漀甀 欀攀攀瀀攀 琀栀攀洀 琀栀攀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 眀椀氀 琀栀攀礀 戀攀㨀 愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 礀攀 栀愀瘀攀 琀愀欀攀渀 琀栀攀洀 漀甀琀ഊof the oven, and that they be almost cold, you must shake them betweene ਀礀漀甀爀 栀愀渀搀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀攀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 伀瘀攀渀Ⰰ 戀攀 眀攀氀氀 眀愀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 漀渀攀 瀀椀攀 琀漀甀挀栀ഊnot another by more than ones hand bredth: Remember also to let them ਀猀琀愀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 伀瘀攀渀 愀昀琀攀爀 琀栀攀 嘀椀渀椀最愀爀 戀攀 椀渀Ⰰ 琀眀漀 栀漀甀爀攀猀 愀渀搀 洀漀爀攀⸀ഊ(England, c. 1588) ਀ഊ- Doc ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㄀㤀 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㔀 ㄀　㨀㌀㐀㨀㌀㈀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Johnna Holloway ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 䌀漀昀昀礀渀猀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊPhil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote: ਀㸀 一漀眀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀 挀漀洀瀀攀氀氀椀渀最 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 猀甀最最攀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀椀猀 洀攀琀栀漀搀 眀愀猀ഊ> used in period, nor that anything like a hot-water dough appears until ਀㸀 琀栀攀 猀攀瘀攀渀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀✀猀 琀攀洀瀀琀椀渀最 琀漀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 猀甀挀栀 愀 琀栀椀渀最ഊ> could have been done (whether or not it actually was is another ਀㸀 猀琀漀爀礀⤀Ⰰ 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 琀攀挀栀渀漀氀漀最礀 挀氀攀愀爀氀礀 攀砀椀猀琀攀搀 昀漀爀 漀琀栀攀爀 琀礀瀀攀猀 漀昀ഊ> manufacture. ਀㸀ഊ> As for the question of the thickness of the pastry and whether you ਀㸀 渀攀攀搀 猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀Ⰰ 椀琀 愀氀猀漀 戀攀挀漀洀攀猀 洀漀爀攀 猀琀愀戀氀攀 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 椀猀 昀椀氀氀攀搀ഊ> with something fairly solid, and a lid sealed in place. ਀㸀ഊ> Adamantius ਀ഊI am on my way out the door but Markham does include a ਀∀爀礀攀 瀀愀猀琀攀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 欀渀攀愀搀攀搀 漀渀氀礀 眀椀琀栀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀ഊbutter, or sweet seam and rye flour very finely sifted, and it ਀眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 洀愀搀攀 琀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀 猀琀椀昀昀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 洀愀礀 猀琀愀渀搀 眀攀氀氀 椀渀 琀栀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀最ഊfor the coffin thereof must ever be very deep: your coarse wheat crust ਀眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 欀渀攀愀搀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 漀爀 洀甀琀琀漀渀 戀爀漀琀栀 愀渀搀 最漀漀搀 猀琀漀爀攀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰഊand the paste made stiff and tough because that coffin must be deep also..." ਀ഊBest edition on pages 96-98. ਀ഊJohnnae ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㈀ 䘀攀戀 ㈀　　㔀 　　㨀㄀　㨀㌀　 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Daniel Myers ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 䌀漀昀昀礀渀猀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊOn Feb 21, 2005, at 6:50 PM, Nancy Kiel wrote: ਀㸀 䴀礀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀挀爀甀猀琀 漀昀 愀 猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 瀀椀攀 眀愀猀 渀漀琀ഊ> the light, flaky delicacy we know and love today, it was not intended ਀㸀 琀漀 戀攀 攀愀琀攀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀昀漀爀攀 渀攀攀搀渀✀琀 戀攀 洀愀搀攀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 琀栀椀渀⸀ 䰀漀漀欀椀渀最 愀琀ഊ> some pictures of standing pies from Dutch paintings, the pies appear ਀㸀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 戀爀漀欀攀渀 漀瀀攀渀Ⰰ 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 猀氀椀挀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀ഊ> definitely thicker (2-3 times at least) than the metal plate onwhich ਀㸀 椀琀 椀猀 猀攀爀瘀攀搀 ⠀䨀愀渀 䐀愀瘀椀搀猀稀⸀ 搀攀 䠀攀攀洀Ⰰ ㄀㘀　㘀ⴀ㄀㘀㐀㠀Ⰰ 昀爀漀洀  吀䠀攀 䐀甀琀挀栀 吀愀戀氀攀ഊ> by Gillian Riley). ਀ഊWhile this may partly true, it is not always the case. Note the ਀眀愀爀渀椀渀最 椀渀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 戀攀氀漀眀 愀戀漀甀琀 瀀甀琀琀椀渀最 椀渀 琀漀漀 洀愀渀礀 攀最最猀⸀  吀栀椀猀ഊimplies that the crusts were (at least sometimes) intended to be eaten. ਀ഊSource [The Good Huswifes Handmaide for the Kitchen, Stuart Peachey ਀⠀攀搀⸀⤀崀 吀漀 洀愀欀攀 倀愀猀琀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀攀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀猀⸀ 吀愀欀攀 昀椀渀攀 昀氀漀眀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 氀愀礀ഊit on a boord, and take a certaine of yolkes of Egges as your quantitie ਀漀昀 昀氀漀眀攀爀 椀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀愀欀攀 愀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀攀 漀昀 䈀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 戀漀椀氀 琀栀攀洀ഊtogether, but ye must take heed ye put not too many yolks of Egges, for ਀椀昀 礀漀甀 搀漀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 眀椀氀氀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀 搀爀椀攀 愀渀搀 渀漀琀 瀀氀攀愀猀愀渀琀 椀渀 攀愀琀椀渀最㨀 愀渀搀 礀攀攀ഊmust take heed ye put not in too much Butter for if you doe, it will ਀洀愀欀攀 椀琀 猀漀 昀椀渀攀 愀渀搀 猀栀漀爀琀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀渀漀琀 爀愀椀猀攀⸀ 䄀渀搀 琀栀椀猀 瀀愀猀琀攀 椀猀 最漀漀搀ഊto raise all manner of Coffins: Likewise if ye bake Venison, bake it in ਀琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀攀 愀戀漀瘀攀 渀愀洀攀搀⸀ ⠀䔀渀最氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 挀⸀ ㄀㔀㠀㠀⤀ 嬀攀洀瀀栀愀猀椀猀 愀搀搀攀搀崀ഊ ਀䄀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀Ⰰ 挀栀攀挀欀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 戀攀氀漀眀⸀  䤀渀 攀愀挀栀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀ഊis notably thin (with parts missing, which I assume have been eaten). ਀ഊStill-life with Turkey-Pie, Pieter Claesz (c. 1630) ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀爀椀樀欀猀洀甀猀攀甀洀⸀渀氀⼀椀洀愀最攀猀⼀愀爀椀愀⼀猀欀⼀稀⼀猀欀ⴀ愀ⴀ㐀㘀㐀㘀⸀稀ഊ ਀䈀爀攀愀欀昀愀猀琀 匀琀椀氀氀ⴀ䰀椀昀攀Ⰰ 圀椀氀氀攀洀 䌀氀愀攀猀稀 䠀攀搀愀 ⠀㄀㘀㌀㜀⤀ഊhttp://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/heda/breakfa.jpg ਀ഊBreakfast Table with Blackberry Pie, Willem Claesz Heda (1631) ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀最愀氀氀攀爀礀⸀攀甀爀漀眀攀戀⸀栀甀⼀愀爀琀⼀栀⼀栀攀搀愀⼀戀爀攀愀欀昀愀猀⸀樀瀀最ഊ ਀ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ਀   䔀搀漀甀愀爀搀 䠀愀氀椀搀愀椀  ⠀䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀⤀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:22:32 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 䌀漀昀昀礀渀猀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" ਀ഊAll of these appear to have been baked in a form. Woodcuts from about 200 ਀礀攀愀爀猀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀 猀栀漀眀 瀀愀猀琀爀椀攀猀 戀攀椀渀最 戀愀欀攀搀 椀渀 爀漀甀渀搀 搀攀攀瀀 眀愀氀氀攀搀 搀椀猀栀攀猀ഊ(trappes). These look suspiciously like what would come out of the dishes ਀椀渀 琀栀攀 眀漀漀搀挀甀琀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀㸀 䄀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀Ⰰ 挀栀攀挀欀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 戀攀氀漀眀⸀  䤀渀 攀愀挀栀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 ഊ> is notably thin (with parts missing, which I assume have been eaten). ਀㸀ഊ> Still-life with Turkey-Pie, Pieter Claesz (c. 1630) ਀㸀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀爀椀樀欀猀洀甀猀攀甀洀⸀渀氀⼀椀洀愀最攀猀⼀愀爀椀愀⼀猀欀⼀稀⼀猀欀ⴀ愀ⴀ㐀㘀㐀㘀⸀稀ഊ> ਀㸀 䈀爀攀愀欀昀愀猀琀 匀琀椀氀氀ⴀ䰀椀昀攀Ⰰ 圀椀氀氀洀 䌀氀愀攀猀稀 䠀攀搀愀 ⠀㄀㘀㌀㜀⤀ഊ> http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/heda/breakfa.jpg ਀㸀ഊ> Breakfast Table with Blackberry Pie, Willem Claesz Heda (1631) ਀㸀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀最愀氀氀攀爀礀⸀攀甀爀漀眀攀戀⸀栀甀⼀愀爀琀⼀栀⼀栀攀搀愀⼀戀爀攀愀欀昀愀猀⸀樀瀀最ഊ> ਀㸀 ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:55:21 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀 㰀攀搀漀甀愀爀搀 愀琀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: coffyns ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 䘀攀戀 ㈀㌀Ⰰ ㈀　　㔀Ⰰ 愀琀 㜀㨀　㜀 倀䴀Ⰰ 一愀渀挀礀 䬀椀攀氀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Something to look for (hint, hint, researchers): period ਀㸀 搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀猀⼀椀渀猀琀爀甀挀琀椀漀渀猀 昀漀爀 猀攀爀瘀椀渀最 瀀椀攀猀ഊ ਀  䘀爀漀洀 ∀吀栀攀 䈀漀欀攀 漀昀 䬀攀爀甀礀渀最攀∀ 戀礀 圀礀渀欀礀渀 搀攀 圀漀爀搀攀 ⠀倀攀琀攀爀 䈀爀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 攀搀⸀⤀ഊ ਀嬀昀爀漀洀 昀愀挀猀椀洀椀氀攀崀ഊAll bake metes that ben hote open them aboue the coffyn & all that ben ਀挀漀氀搀攀 漀瀀攀渀 琀栀攀礀洀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀礀搀眀愀礀攀⸀ഊCustarde cheke them inche square that your souerayne may ete therof. ਀䐀漀甀挀攀琀琀攀猀 瀀愀爀攀 愀眀愀礀 琀栀攀 猀礀搀攀猀 ☀ 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀攀 戀攀眀愀爀攀 漀昀 昀甀洀漀猀礀琀攀攀猀⸀ ⠀㼀⤀ഊFruyter vaunte fruyter saye be good better is fruyter pouche apple ਀昀爀甀礀琀攀爀猀 戀攀渀 最漀漀搀 栀漀琀攀㨀 愀渀搀 愀氀氀 挀漀氀搀 昀爀甀礀琀攀爀猀 琀漀甀挀栀攀 渀漀琀⸀ഊ ਀嬀䈀爀攀愀爀猀✀ 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀崀ഊAll hot meat pies: open the crust at the top, and all cold, at the side. ਀䌀甀猀琀愀爀搀㨀 挀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀 椀渀挀栀 猀焀甀愀爀攀猀 昀漀爀 礀漀甀爀 氀漀爀搀⸀ഊDoucettes: pare away the sides and the bottom; beware of indigestible ਀瀀愀爀琀猀⸀ഊMeat fritters and sage fritters are good; pouch fritter is better. ਀䄀瀀瀀氀攀 昀爀椀琀琀攀爀猀 愀爀攀 最漀漀搀 栀漀琀㬀 戀甀琀 搀漀 渀漀琀 琀漀甀挀栀 愀渀礀 挀漀氀搀 昀爀椀琀琀攀爀猀⸀ഊ ਀ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ਀   䔀搀漀甀愀爀搀 䠀愀氀椀搀愀椀  ⠀䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀⤀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:12:44 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀 㰀攀搀漀甀愀爀搀 愀琀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] tarts vs. pies, a bit of help ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀 栀攀爀攀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 攀瘀攀渀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 愀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀ഊsource, the terms "pie", "tart", "tort", and "pasty" are not used ਀挀漀渀猀椀猀琀攀渀琀氀礀⸀  吀栀椀猀 挀愀渀 戀攀 昀甀爀琀栀攀爀 挀漀洀瀀漀甀渀搀攀搀 戀礀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 椀渀ഊtranslation. ਀ഊFor example, in Scully's "Neapolitan Recipe Collection", there are some ਀爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀琀漀爀琀愀∀ 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 搀漀甀戀氀攀ⴀ挀爀甀猀琀 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀猀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀ഊtarts. The only way to figure out which one is meant is through ਀挀漀渀琀攀砀琀⸀ഊ ਀ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:35:10 -0800 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 氀椀氀椀渀愀栀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] tarts vs. pies, a bit of help ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀䄀氀攀砀愀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> --- Micheal wrote: ਀㸀㸀  䴀漀猀琀 漀昀 甀猀 琀栀椀渀欀 漀昀 琀愀爀琀猀 愀猀 洀椀渀椀 瀀椀攀猀 戀甀琀 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 琀愀爀琀氀攀琀 椀猀 洀漀爀攀ഊ>> properly the name. Such things as Apple tart, Mince tarts, Butter tarts, ਀㸀㸀 愀渀搀 猀漀 漀渀⸀ 䘀漀爀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 愀爀漀甀渀搀 ㌀ ∀ 椀渀 搀椀愀洀攀琀攀爀 漀爀 猀洀愀氀氀攀爀 琀栀攀礀 洀愀礀 漀爀 洀愀礀ഊ>> not have a cover. ਀㸀ഊ> Ok, I was hoping for the small ones. Now, the fun ਀㸀 瀀愀爀琀Ⰰ 栀漀眀 搀漀 礀漀甀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 氀漀漀欀 渀椀挀攀 昀漀爀 猀愀礀 㠀　ⴀ㄀㈀　ഊ> and still keep what little bit of sanity you have? Is ਀㸀 椀琀 琀漀漀 椀渀愀瀀瀀爀漀瀀爀椀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 伀伀倀 琀漀 甀猀攀 琀栀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 琀愀爀琀ഊ> tins-kind of what potpies come out of only shorter. I ਀㸀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀攀 愀氀甀洀椀渀甀洀 眀漀甀氀搀渀琀 戀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 昀漀爀 猀愀欀攀 漀昀ഊ> the SCA, it would make preparing this a little simpler. ਀ഊWhy make hors d'oeuvre tarts? They wouldn't have done so in SCA-period. ਀ഊAround here (central West Kingdom) we tend to have tables for eight. ਀䤀 洀愀欀攀 漀渀攀 瀀椀攀⼀琀愀爀琀⼀琀漀爀琀愀 瀀攀爀 琀愀戀氀攀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 戀漀甀最栀琀 愀 瀀椀攀ⴀ挀甀琀琀攀爀 琀栀椀渀最礀 愀琀 愀 爀攀猀琀愀甀爀愀渀琀 猀甀瀀瀀氀礀 瀀氀愀挀攀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 愀ഊcircle of metal with eight blunt metal "knives" attached. You just ਀瀀甀琀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀渀最礀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 愀渀搀 瀀爀攀猀猀 搀漀眀渀 愀渀搀Ⰰ 瘀椀漀氀愀℀ 攀椀最栀琀 攀焀甀愀氀氀礀ഊsized pieces. Since folks are often concerned about everyone getting ਀愀 昀愀椀爀 猀攀爀瘀椀渀最Ⰰ 琀栀椀猀 最甀愀爀愀渀琀攀攀猀 攀焀甀愀氀氀礀 猀椀稀攀搀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀伀䬀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀✀猀 渀漀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 攀椀琀栀攀爀⸀ 䈀甀琀 椀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 猀愀礀Ⰰ 椀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 搀漀渀✀琀ഊlike having someone else's dirty knife cutting the pie - even thought ਀琀栀愀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ 䈀唀吀⸀⸀⸀ 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀　 瀀攀爀 挀攀渀琀 瘀攀最攀琀愀爀椀愀渀猀 愀琀ഊmy feasts, and by pre-cutting, they don't have to worry about ਀猀漀洀攀漀渀攀✀猀 洀攀愀琀ⴀ挀漀渀琀愀洀椀渀愀琀攀搀 欀渀椀昀攀 琀漀甀挀栀椀渀最 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀椀攀 猀氀椀挀攀⸀ഊ ਀匀漀洀攀 挀漀漀欀猀 栀愀瘀攀 攀砀瀀爀攀猀猀攀搀 漀戀樀攀挀琀椀漀渀猀 琀漀 甀猀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 搀攀瘀椀挀攀 愀琀 愀 昀攀愀猀琀ഊas (a) it interferes with a Medieval experience, and (b) some folks ਀洀椀最栀琀 眀愀渀琀 氀愀爀最攀爀 漀爀 猀洀愀氀氀攀爀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀⸀ 䤀 昀椀最甀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀昀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 眀愀渀琀猀 愀ഊsmaller piece, they can cut one in half, and whoever wants the larger ਀瀀椀攀挀攀 挀愀渀 栀愀瘀攀 椀琀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 愀氀猀漀 猀氀椀挀攀爀猀 琀栀愀琀 洀愀欀攀 㘀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀 ⴀ 愀渀搀 椀 琀栀椀渀欀 漀渀攀猀 琀栀愀琀ഊmake more smaller slices. ਀ഊAt one feast we needed more small pieces of a rich creamy cheese ਀琀愀爀琀⼀琀漀爀琀愀⼀瀀椀攀⸀ 圀攀 樀甀猀琀 甀猀攀搀 琀栀攀 挀甀琀琀攀爀 琀眀椀挀攀 漀渀 攀愀挀栀 瀀椀攀 愀渀搀 最漀琀 ㄀㘀ഊpieces. One of the cooks had expressed skepticism about the cutter, ਀戀甀琀 眀愀猀 挀漀渀瘀攀爀琀攀搀 愀昀琀攀爀 甀猀椀渀最 椀琀 漀渀 漀渀攀 瀀椀攀⸀ഊ ਀䄀渀礀眀愀礀Ⰰ 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 琀栀攀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 愀琀 栀愀渀搀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 礀漀甀✀爀攀 洀愀欀椀渀最 眀愀礀 琀漀漀 洀甀挀栀 眀漀爀欀 昀漀爀 礀漀甀爀猀攀氀昀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 洀愀欀攀ഊcocktail quiches. Just do it the Medieval way with large ਀瀀椀攀猀⼀琀愀爀琀猀⼀琀漀爀琀愀猀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀✀爀攀 挀漀渀挀攀爀渀攀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 猀攀爀瘀椀渀最 猀椀稀攀Ⰰ 瀀爀攀ⴀ挀甀琀ഊthem in the kitchen. ਀ഊAnahita ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀ 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　㔀 ㄀㄀㨀㈀㌀㨀㐀㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Barbara Benson ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 琀愀爀琀猀 瘀猀⸀ 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀 戀椀琀 漀昀 栀攀氀瀀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊ>> Ok, I was hoping for the small ones. Now, the fun ਀㸀㸀 瀀愀爀琀Ⰰ 栀漀眀 搀漀 礀漀甀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 氀漀漀欀 渀椀挀攀 昀漀爀 猀愀礀 㠀　ⴀ㄀㈀　ഊ>> and still keep what little bit of sanity you have? Is ਀㸀㸀 椀琀 琀漀漀 椀渀愀瀀瀀爀漀瀀爀椀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 伀伀倀 琀漀 甀猀攀 琀栀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 琀愀爀琀ഊ>> tins-kind of what potpies come out of only shorter. ਀ഊ> Anahita > Why make hors d'oeuvre tarts? They wouldn't have done so in ਀㸀 匀䌀䄀ⴀ瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ഊ ਀㸀 䌀攀愀氀椀愀渀 伀昀 䴀漀爀愀礀 㸀 伀渀 眀栀愀琀 瀀攀爀 挀栀愀渀挀攀 䄀渀愀栀椀琀愀 搀漀 礀漀甀 戀愀猀攀 琀栀愀琀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀 ഊ> ? I have never found a size restriction so I am curious. Honestly ਀㸀 䤀 愀洀 猀椀洀瀀氀礀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 氀攀愀爀渀 ⸀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀 猀攀攀渀 愀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 挀愀氀氀 昀漀爀 洀愀欀椀渀最 琀椀渀礀 琀愀爀琀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 爀攀愀搀ഊnumerous instructions to make a pie "whatever size you will". Because ਀漀昀 琀栀椀猀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀 栀愀搀 愀 搀椀昀昀椀挀甀氀琀礀 樀甀猀琀椀昀礀椀渀最 猀洀愀氀氀 琀愀爀琀猀 琀漀ഊmyself. I see no reason why a period cook might not have decided to do ਀猀洀愀氀氀 琀愀爀琀猀⸀ 䄀猀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀攀搀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀 洀甀挀栀 氀攀猀猀 琀椀洀攀 挀漀渀猀甀洀椀渀最 琀漀ഊmake one big, or several good sized pies/tarts than it is to make many ਀猀洀愀氀氀 漀渀攀猀⸀ 䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 瀀爀攀猀攀渀琀椀渀最 搀漀稀攀渀猀 愀渀搀 搀漀稀攀渀猀 漀昀 琀攀攀渀礀 瀀椀攀猀ഊwould be an exercise in conspicuous consumption in that you have the ਀氀愀戀漀爀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 愀戀椀氀椀琀礀 琀漀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀攀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 琀栀愀琀⸀ഊ ਀匀漀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀爀攀猀攀渀琀攀搀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀椀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀 愀氀漀渀最 琀栀攀 氀椀渀攀猀 漀昀 愀瀀瀀攀琀椀稀攀爀ഊsized. A suggestion to the good gentle that started this conversation. ਀圀栀攀渀 䤀 洀愀欀攀 洀愀渀礀 猀洀愀氀氀 琀愀爀琀猀 䤀 甀猀攀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀 洀甀昀昀椀渀 琀椀渀猀⸀ 夀漀甀 挀愀渀 洀愀欀攀ഊa dozen or so per pan and they have high straight sides. They are also ਀愀 瘀攀爀礀 渀漀渀ⴀ洀漀搀攀爀渀 猀椀稀攀 椀渀 瘀椀猀甀愀氀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀愀渀挀攀 椀渀 挀漀渀琀爀愀猀琀 琀漀 戀漀琀栀 琀栀攀ഊstandard 9" size and the standard mini-quiche size. ਀ഊAnother option that I have been taught to use is the half sheet pan ਀瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀⸀ 䤀渀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 猀瀀椀爀椀琀 漀昀 洀愀欀椀渀最 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 ∀眀栀愀琀攀瘀攀爀 猀椀稀攀 礀漀甀ഊwill". I have made large flat pies that are then divided up and served ਀椀渀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 眀漀爀欀猀 戀攀猀琀 眀椀琀栀 愀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 栀愀猀 猀漀洀攀ഊbulk and holds together on it's own, and needs some finagling for a ਀挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀搀 瀀氀愀渀渀攀搀 琀漀 搀漀 琀栀愀琀 愀琀 洀礀 洀漀猀琀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 昀攀愀猀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 最漀琀 琀栀攀爀攀ഊI was luck enough to find that they had some very strange sheet pans ਀琀栀愀琀 眀攀爀攀 氀漀渀最 戀甀琀 渀愀爀爀漀眀⸀ 䤀 甀猀攀搀 琀栀漀猀攀 愀渀搀 眀愀猀 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 愀挀栀椀攀瘀攀 猀漀洀攀ഊvery interesting shapes. ਀ഊI hope that this may be of some use. ਀䜀氀愀搀 吀椀搀椀渀最猀Ⰰഊ--Serena da Riva ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㈀㜀 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　㔀 　㘀㨀㐀㐀㨀㄀㔀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Louise Smithson ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 圀栀攀愀琀 琀愀爀琀 眀愀猀 刀攀㨀 匀瀀爀椀渀最⼀䔀愀猀琀攀爀 瀀椀攀猀㼀ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org ਀ഊAmelyn wrote: Here is a traditional Italian Easter Pie but I'm not sure ਀栀漀眀 昀愀爀 戀愀挀欀 椀琀 最漀攀猀⸀ഊhttp://www.recipezaar.com/65382 ਀ഊIt's ancestor was cooked and eaten in 16th century Italy. I know that ਀琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀瀀礀 椀渀 䴀攀猀猀椀猀戀甀最漀 愀渀搀 戀攀氀漀眀 椀猀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀 昀爀漀洀 匀挀愀瀀瀀椀⸀  䴀漀爀攀  ഊcheese, more spices no "cream" but definately the ancester of the wheat ਀瀀椀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 最椀瘀攀渀 愀戀漀瘀攀⸀ഊ ਀倀攀爀 昀愀爀攀 琀漀爀琀愀 搀椀 昀漀爀洀攀渀琀漀渀攀 最爀漀猀猀漀 䌀愀瀀 䰀堀堀堀嘀䤀䤀䤀ഊ ਀䤀氀 昀漀爀洀攀渀琀漀渀攀 攀 甀渀 最爀愀渀漀 愀猀猀愀椀 瀀椀甀 最爀愀渀搀攀 ☀ 瀀椀甀 最爀漀猀猀漀 搀攀氀 昀漀爀洀攀渀琀漀Ⰰ ☀  ഊin Lombardia se n'usa assai in vivande, piglisi, & nettisi & faccisi ਀猀琀愀爀攀 椀渀 洀漀氀氀漀 渀攀氀氀✀愀挀焀甀愀 琀椀攀瀀椀搀愀Ⰰ 瀀攀爀 焀甀愀琀琀爀漀 栀漀爀攀Ⰰ ☀ 氀愀瘀椀猀椀 愀 瀀椀甀  ഊacqua tiepide, & facciasi cuocere in buon brodo di carne che se fatto ਀椀氀 爀椀猀漀Ⰰ ☀ 昀愀爀爀漀Ⰰ ☀ 昀愀挀挀椀猀攀渀攀 琀漀爀琀愀 挀漀渀 氀攀 洀攀搀攀猀椀洀攀 挀漀洀瀀漀猀椀琀椀漀渀攀 ☀  ഊordine del capitolo sopradetto. ਀ഊTo make a tart of large wheat berries ਀ഊFormentone is a grain much larger and fatter than wheat and in Lombardy ਀椀琀 椀猀 眀椀搀攀氀礀 甀猀攀搀 椀渀 搀椀猀栀攀猀⸀  吀愀欀攀 椀琀Ⰰ 眀愀猀栀 椀琀 愀渀搀 氀攀琀 椀琀 猀漀愀欀 椀渀 琀攀瀀椀搀  ഊwater for four hours then wash with more warm water and put it to cook ਀椀渀 最漀漀搀 洀攀愀琀 戀爀漀琀栀 愀猀 漀渀攀 洀愀欀攀猀 琀栀攀 爀椀挀攀 愀渀搀 眀栀攀愀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 愀 琀愀爀琀  ഊwith the same ingredients and method as that in the chaper above. ਀ഊPer fare torta di riso cotta in brodo di carne Cap LXXXVII ਀ഊCuocasi una libra di riso ben mondo in brodo di carne grasso, & cotto ਀挀栀攀 猀愀爀愀 搀椀 洀漀搀漀 挀栀攀 猀椀愀 戀攀渀 猀漀搀漀Ⰰ 挀愀瘀椀猀椀 ☀ 氀愀猀挀椀 猀挀漀氀愀爀攀 ☀ 瀀攀猀琀椀猀椀 渀攀氀  ഊmortaro con libra una e mezza di prevatura fresca, & una lebra & mezza ਀搀椀 挀愀猀挀椀漀 倀愀爀洀椀最椀愀渀漀 戀甀漀渀漀Ⰰ ☀ 洀攀稀稀愀 氀椀戀爀愀 搀椀 挀愀猀挀椀漀 最爀愀猀猀漀Ⰰ 琀爀攀 焀甀愀爀琀椀  ഊdi pepe, un'oncia di cannella, una libra e mezza di zuccaro, quattro ਀漀渀挀椀攀 搀椀 戀甀琀琀椀爀漀 瀀攀爀 挀漀渀猀攀爀瘀愀爀氀愀 洀漀爀戀椀搀愀Ⰰ 猀攀椀 漀瘀愀 昀爀攀猀挀栀攀Ⰰ ☀ 搀✀攀猀猀愀  ഊcompositione facciasene torta con un sfoglio sotto e sopra, & il ਀琀漀爀琀椀最氀椀漀渀攀 椀渀琀漀爀渀漀㬀 昀愀挀挀椀愀猀椀 挀甀漀挀攀爀攀 渀攀氀 昀漀爀渀漀Ⰰ 漀 猀漀琀琀漀 椀氀 琀攀猀琀漀 挀漀渀  ഊla sua crostata sopra. In questo modo si puo fare del farro, & ਀瘀漀氀攀渀搀漀猀椀 戀椀愀渀挀愀 昀愀挀挀椀猀椀 挀甀漀挀攀爀攀 椀氀 爀椀猀漀 渀攀氀 氀愀琀琀攀 搀椀 挀愀瀀爀愀Ⰰ ☀  ഊvolendosi passare per la stamigna sara in arbitrio, in luogo della ਀瀀爀漀瘀愀琀甀爀愀 瀀漀渀最愀猀椀 爀椀挀漀琀琀愀Ⰰ ☀ 椀渀 氀甀漀最漀 搀攀氀氀攀 猀瀀攀琀椀攀爀椀攀Ⰰ 最攀渀最攀瘀攀爀漀 瀀椀猀琀漀Ⰰ  ഊ& chiare d'ova senza il rosso, con piu zuccaro, & un poco di cascio ਀倀愀爀洀椀最椀愀渀漀 最爀愀琀琀愀琀漀⸀ഊ ਀吀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀 琀愀爀琀 漀昀 爀椀挀攀 挀漀漀欀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 洀攀愀琀 戀爀漀琀栀⸀ഊ ਀䌀漀漀欀 愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 眀攀氀氀 瀀攀攀氀攀搀 爀椀挀攀 椀渀 最漀漀搀 昀愀琀 戀爀漀琀栀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀  ഊcooked in a way that it is good and soft empty it out (of the pan) and ਀氀攀琀 椀琀 搀爀愀椀渀⸀  吀栀攀渀 最爀椀渀搀 椀琀 椀渀 愀 洀漀爀琀愀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 愀渀搀 愀 栀愀氀昀 漀昀  ഊfresh mozzarella, a pound and a half of good Parmesan cheese, and half ਀愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 昀愀琀 ⠀猀漀昀琀⤀ 挀栀攀攀猀攀Ⰰ 琀栀爀攀攀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀猀 漀昀 愀渀 漀甀渀挀攀 漀昀 瀀攀瀀瀀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀  ഊounce of cinnamon, a pound and a half of sugar, and four ounces of ਀猀甀最愀爀 琀漀 欀攀攀瀀 椀琀 洀漀椀猀琀Ⰰ 猀椀砀 昀爀攀猀栀 攀最最猀⸀  䄀渀搀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 洀椀砀琀甀爀攀 洀愀欀攀 愀  ഊtart with a sheet (of pastry) below and above and pastry decorations ਀愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 爀椀洀⸀  倀甀琀 椀琀 琀漀 挀漀漀欀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀 漀爀 甀渀搀攀爀 愀 ∀琀攀猀琀漀∀ 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀  ഊcrust on top. In this way one can make wheat. And if you want it white ਀挀漀漀欀 琀栀攀 爀椀挀攀 椀渀 最漀愀琀猀 洀椀氀欀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 瀀愀猀猀 椀琀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 愀 猀椀攀瘀攀 椀昀 礀漀甀  ഊwant, and in place of mozzarella add ricotta, in place of the spices ਀甀猀攀 最爀漀甀渀搀 最椀渀最攀爀Ⰰ 愀搀搀 攀最最 眀栀椀琀攀猀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 礀漀氀欀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 洀漀爀攀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ  ഊand a little bit of grated Parmesan. ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 䄀瀀爀 ㈀　　㘀 ㄀㤀㨀㔀㐀㨀　㤀 ⴀ　㜀　　ഊFrom: Susan Fox ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 䜀爀攀攀渀 倀礀攀猀 眀愀猀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀漀漀欀椀渀最 䘀攀愀猀琀猀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 愀ഊ Kitchen ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀㸀㸀 䴀礀 洀漀琀栀攀爀 猀甀最最攀猀琀攀搀 琀栀椀猀 洀漀爀渀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 眀攀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 䜀爀攀攀渀 倀礀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 䤀✀洀 猀漀ഊ>> fond of. It can be done in advance and served at room temp. Muriath ਀㸀㸀 栀愀猀 琀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀⸀  䰀漀愀搀 椀琀 甀瀀 眀椀琀栀 爀漀愀猀琀攀搀 最愀爀氀椀挀 愀渀搀 䤀  ഊ>> think we will have a winner. ਀ഊI wouldn't have "spoon teased" but I was at work and the recipe was ਀愀琀 栀漀洀攀⸀ഊOh drat, the one on my computer is the abbreviated "atkins" type with no ਀挀爀甀猀琀⸀  䰀攀琀 洀攀 搀爀攀搀最攀 琀栀椀猀 甀瀀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 戀爀愀椀渀㨀ഊ ਀吀愀欀攀 愀渀 甀渀戀愀欀攀搀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀昀 礀漀甀爀 挀栀漀椀挀攀⸀  倀甀琀 椀琀 漀渀 愀 挀漀漀欀椀攀 猀栀攀攀琀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀ഊit will inevitably spill, burn and meld to the bottom of your oven. Place ਀琀栀攀爀攀椀渀Ⰰ 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 漀爀搀攀爀㨀ഊ ਀䨀甀氀椀攀渀渀攀搀 昀爀攀猀栀 栀攀爀戀猀 漀昀 礀漀甀爀 挀栀漀椀挀攀  ⴀ 䤀 氀椀欀攀 猀愀最攀ഊ ਀伀渀攀 洀攀搀椀甀洀 漀渀椀漀渀Ⰰ 挀栀漀瀀瀀攀搀 昀椀渀攀 愀渀搀 猀愀甀琀攀攀搀⸀  嬀䴀愀礀戀攀 渀漀琀 猀愀甀琀攀攀搀 椀昀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀ഊusing one of those Vidalias we have discussed recently.] This is where the ਀䜀愀爀氀椀挀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 最漀 愀氀猀漀 椀昀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 甀猀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀⸀ഊ ਀㄀ 氀愀礀攀爀 漀昀 最爀愀琀攀搀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 漀昀 礀漀甀爀 挀栀漀椀挀攀⸀ഊ ਀∀匀瀀爀椀渀最 䜀爀攀攀渀猀∀ 漀爀 ∀䴀攀猀挀氀甀渀 䴀椀砀∀ 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 瀀爀攀ⴀ眀愀猀栀攀搀 愀渀搀 戀愀最最攀搀 琀栀攀猀攀 搀愀礀猀⸀ഊ[Actually, spinach or any leafy greens will work.] 1 average handful if ਀礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 戀椀最 栀愀渀搀猀Ⰰ ㈀ 戀椀最 栀愀渀搀昀甀氀氀猀 椀昀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 瀀愀眀猀 氀椀欀攀 洀椀渀攀⸀  夀攀猀Ⰰഊthis will poke out over the top and look like a big salad, that's all right, ਀椀琀 猀栀爀椀渀欀猀 愀猀 椀琀 挀漀漀欀猀⸀ഊ ਀㄀ 氀愀礀攀爀 漀昀 最爀愀琀攀搀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 漀昀 礀漀甀爀 挀栀漀椀挀攀⸀ഊ ਀倀漀甀爀 漀瘀攀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 洀椀砀琀甀爀攀 漀昀 ㌀ 攀最最猀 琀漀 ㈀ 挀甀瀀猀 漀昀 洀椀氀欀⸀  䤀昀 椀琀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 爀攀愀挀栀ഊthe lip of the pie crust, mix up some more. Make Pain Perdu with the excess ਀攀最最ⴀ洀椀氀欀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 搀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 愀 琀爀攀愀琀⸀ഊ ਀䈀愀欀攀 愀琀 ㌀㔀　 搀攀最爀攀攀猀 䘀 昀漀爀 伀渀攀 䠀漀甀爀 漀爀 甀渀琀椀氀 眀攀氀氀 戀爀漀眀渀攀搀 漀渀 琀漀瀀⸀  唀猀攀  ഊthe skewer test to determine doneness. ਀ഊI have tried this in a convection oven and found that it browned nicely on ਀琀栀攀 漀甀琀猀椀搀攀 䰀伀一䜀 䈀䔀䘀伀刀䔀 椀琀 眀愀猀 搀漀渀攀 椀渀猀椀搀攀Ⰰ 猀漀 䤀 挀愀渀渀漀琀 爀攀挀漀洀洀攀渀搀 甀猀椀渀最 愀ഊconvection oven for this kind of cooking. ਀ഊSelene ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀㠀 䨀甀渀 ㈀　　㘀 ㈀　㨀㈀㤀㨀㈀㤀 ⬀　㈀　　ഊFrom: Volker Bach ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 匀攀攀欀椀渀最 倀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀椀攀 䌀爀甀猀琀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊAm Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2006 20:15 schrieb wildecelery at aol.com: ਀䤀 愀洀 洀愀欀椀渀最 猀愀洀戀漀挀愀搀攀 ⠀挀栀攀攀猀攀挀愀欀攀 眀椀琀栀 爀漀猀攀眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 攀氀搀攀爀昀氀漀眀攀爀⤀ 愀猀 瀀愀爀琀ഊof a Royalty presentation for Pennsic. I plan to make them tart/muffin tin ਀猀椀稀攀搀⸀  䐀漀攀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 ⠀礀攀琀 攀搀椀戀氀攀⸀⸀⸀渀漀琀 挀漀昀昀礀渀 猀琀礀氀攀⤀ 挀爀甀猀琀ഊrecipe? Last time I made them, I used a standard 3-2-1 dough, but I would ਀氀椀欀攀 琀漀 甀猀攀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 洀漀爀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 椀昀 琀栀攀爀攀✀猀 愀 猀椀洀瀀氀攀 漀渀攀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 ⠀ 䤀ഊneed something that will survive the travel from Northern VT to Pennsic). ਀ഊThis might help ਀ഊAin pastetentaig z? machen z? allen auffgesetzten pasteten ਀一攀洀瀀琀 愀椀渀 洀攀氀氀Ⰰ 搀愀猀 瀀攀猀琀Ⰰ 猀漀 樀爀 戀攀欀漀洀攀渀 洀㼀最攀渀Ⰰ 瘀渀最攀昀愀爀氀椀挀栀ഊ2 g?t ga?ffen oder darnach jr die gros? oder klain haben ਀眀攀氀琀Ⰰ 琀栀椀攀琀猀 愀甀昀昀 搀攀渀 搀椀猀挀栀 瘀渀渀搀 爀椀攀爀琀 ㈀ 愀椀爀 洀椀琀 愀椀渀攀洀 洀攀猀猀攀爀ഊdaran vnnd saltzt ain wenig, macht jn ainem pfenndlin ain ਀眀愀猀猀攀爀 瘀渀渀搀 眀椀攀 ㈀ 最㼀琀攀 愀椀爀 最爀漀猀㼀 猀挀栀洀愀氀琀稀Ⰰ 氀愀猀琀 攀猀 愀氀猀 愀渀愀椀渀愀渀搀攀爀ഊergan vnnd sieden/ darnach schit es an das obgemelt ਀洀攀氀氀 漀戀 搀攀洀 搀椀猀挀栀 瘀渀渀搀 洀愀挀栀 愀椀渀 猀琀愀爀挀欀攀渀 琀愀椀最 瘀渀渀搀ഊarbait jn woll, wie dich g?t d?nckt, wan es jm somer jst, ਀洀㼀猀㼀 洀愀渀 愀渀 搀攀猀 眀愀猀猀攀爀 猀琀愀琀 愀椀渀 昀氀攀猀挀栀戀爀椀攀 渀攀洀攀渀 瘀渀渀搀 愀渀ഊdes schmaltz stat ain abscheffet von der s?pen nemen, wan ਀搀攀爀 琀愀椀最 最攀愀爀戀愀椀琀 樀猀琀Ⰰ 猀漀 洀愀挀栀攀渀琀 樀渀 稀㼀 愀椀渀攀爀 爀㼀渀搀攀渀 欀㼀最攀氀ഊvnnd thenet jn fein mit den fingern vornen aus oder mit ainem ਀眀愀氀最攀氀栀漀氀琀稀⼀ 搀愀猀 樀渀 搀攀爀 洀椀琀 愀椀渀 栀攀挀栀椀渀 戀攀氀攀椀戀Ⰰ 搀愀爀渀愀挀栀ഊlands erstaren an der keltin, ਀ഊTo make a pastry dough for all shaped pies ਀ഊTake flour, the best that you can get, about two handfuls, depending on how ਀氀愀爀最攀 漀爀 猀洀愀氀氀 礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀⸀ 倀甀琀 椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 愀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀 欀渀椀昀攀 猀琀椀爀 椀渀 琀眀漀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀愀氀琀⸀ 倀甀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 椀渀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀愀渀 愀渀搀 愀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀 昀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀椀稀攀 漀昀 琀眀漀 最漀漀搀 攀最最猀Ⰰ 氀攀琀 椀琀 愀氀氀 搀椀猀猀漀氀瘀攀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 愀渀搀 戀漀椀氀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀眀愀爀搀猀 瀀漀甀爀 椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 漀渀 琀栀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 愀 猀琀爀漀渀最 搀漀甀最栀 愀渀搀 眀漀爀欀 椀琀 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀 礀漀甀 昀攀攀氀 椀猀 爀椀最栀琀⸀ 䤀昀 椀琀 椀猀 猀甀洀洀攀爀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 洀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 洀攀愀琀 戀爀漀琀栀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀欀椀洀洀椀渀最猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 戀爀漀琀栀⸀ 圀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 搀漀甀最栀 椀猀 欀渀攀愀搀攀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 洀愀欀攀 漀昀 椀琀 愀 爀漀甀渀搀 戀愀氀氀 愀渀搀 搀爀愀眀 椀琀 漀甀琀 眀攀氀氀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 昀椀渀最攀爀猀 漀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 爀漀氀氀椀渀最 瀀椀渀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀椀搀搀氀攀 愀 爀愀椀猀攀搀 愀爀攀愀 爀攀洀愀椀渀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 氀攀琀 椀琀 挀栀椀氀氀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀漀氀搀⸀ഊ(Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin, translation by Valoise Armstrong) ਀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 漀渀攀 愀氀猀漀 眀漀爀欀猀 昀漀爀 猀眀攀攀琀 瀀椀攀猀ഊ ਀䌀稀甀 洀愀挀栀攀渀 攀椀渀 欀爀愀瀀昀昀攀渀 琀攀椀最⸀ 䤀琀攀洀 猀攀甀搀 栀漀渀椀最 椀渀 眀攀椀渀 愀氀㼀 瘀椀氀 搀甀 眀椀氀琀 甀渀搀ഊnym auch ein weitte schussel und zwir den wein mit weissem melbe als ein ਀洀甀猀氀攀椀渀⸀ 匀挀栀氀愀挀栀 攀椀渀 愀礀攀爀 琀漀琀琀攀爀渀 搀攀爀 爀漀琀 猀攀礀 椀渀 攀椀渀 愀渀搀攀爀 猀挀栀甀猀猀攀氀 甀渀搀ഊauch ein wenig saffran das treib gar wol mit dem gemachten honig wein und ਀琀甀 攀猀 椀渀 搀攀渀 最攀稀眀攀爀琀攀渀 琀攀椀最 琀攀洀瀀攀爀椀爀 攀猀 愀甀挀栀 眀漀氀⸀ 唀渀搀 眀甀爀昀昀 礀攀 攀椀渀ഊsteublein melbs dar zu in die schusseln als lang bi? du ein litigen teig ਀最攀洀愀挀栀猀琀⸀ 䐀攀渀 猀漀 戀攀爀攀椀琀 攀椀渀 猀愀甀戀攀爀 琀甀挀栀 愀甀昀 甀渀搀 稀攀甀最 搀攀渀 琀攀椀最 搀愀爀愀甀昀 洀椀琀ഊeinem welgerholtz zu massen duen. Un schneid den form gro? od klein all? du ਀搀椀攀 欀爀愀瀀昀昀攀渀 栀愀戀攀渀 眀椀氀琀 渀愀挀栀 礀攀搀攀爀 昀甀氀 搀愀 爀椀挀栀琀 搀椀挀栀 渀愀挀栀⸀ 伀搀 眀愀猀 琀攀椀最 洀愀渀ഊmit hefel od bier od hopf wasser macht dy mu? man lassen auf gen und ਀搀愀爀渀愀挀栀 愀戀攀爀 攀椀渀 欀渀攀琀琀攀渀 洀椀琀 氀漀攀洀 眀愀猀猀攀爀 漀搀 洀椀琀 攀椀渀攀洀 最攀猀漀琀琀攀渀 栀漀渀椀最 眀攀椀渀ഊda wi? dich nach zu richten. ਀⠀䬀㼀挀栀攀渀洀愀椀猀琀攀爀攀礀Ⰰ ㄀㐀㤀　⤀ഊ ਀吀漀 洀愀欀攀 搀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 䬀爀愀瀀昀攀渀⸀ 䈀漀椀氀 栀漀渀攀礀 椀渀 眀椀渀攀Ⰰ 愀猀 洀甀挀栀 愀猀 礀漀甀 渀攀攀搀Ⰰ 琀愀欀攀 愀ഊwide bowl and stir the wine with white flour until it is the consistency of ਀瀀漀爀爀椀搀最攀⸀ 䈀爀攀愀欀 愀渀 攀最最 礀漀氀欀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 爀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 猀愀昀昀爀漀渀 椀渀琀漀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 戀漀眀氀 愀渀搀ഊstir it with the honey wine. Add that to the other bowl and mix it well. ਀䄀搀搀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 氀椀琀琀氀攀 戀礀 氀椀琀琀氀攀Ⰰ 甀渀琀椀氀 礀漀甀 最攀琀愀 猀琀椀昀昀 ⠀㼀⤀ 搀漀甀最栀⸀ 吀甀爀渀 琀栀愀琀 漀甀琀ഊon a clean cloth and roll it out to the proper thickness. Cut out the ਀猀栀愀瀀攀猀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 琀栀攀 䬀爀愀瀀昀攀渀 椀渀Ⰰ 氀愀爀最攀 漀爀 猀洀愀氀氀Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最ഊyou want to use. But the doughs that are made with yeast or beer or hop ਀眀愀琀攀爀 渀攀攀搀 琀漀 爀椀猀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 戀攀 欀渀攀愀搀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 氀甀欀攀眀愀爀洀 眀愀琀攀爀 漀爀 栀漀渀攀礀ഊwine. Heed this advice. ਀ഊNow, this is not very clear, but it shows the major components of one dough ਀眀栀椀氀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀椀渀最 愀琀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 漀琀栀攀爀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀椀氀椀琀椀攀猀⸀ 䴀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 眀漀甀氀搀ഊbe: ਀ഊ1/2 cup white wine ਀㌀ⴀ㐀 琀戀氀猀瀀 栀漀渀攀礀ഊ2 eggs ਀㈀ⴀ㌀ 挀甀瀀猀 昀氀漀甀爀ഊsaffron ਀ഊHeat the wine and dissolve the honey in it. Beat the eggs with a pinch of ਀猀愀昀昀爀漀渀⸀ 䤀渀 愀 氀愀爀最攀 洀椀砀椀渀最 戀漀眀氀Ⰰ 挀漀洀戀椀渀攀 栀漀渀攀礀ⴀ眀椀渀攀Ⰰ 攀最最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 昀氀漀甀爀 甀渀琀椀氀 愀ഊstiff dough results. Cool and rest, then roll out to use. This dough does not ਀栀愀瘀攀 愀渀礀 氀攀愀瘀攀渀椀渀最 愀最攀渀琀猀 椀渀 椀琀 ⠀甀渀氀攀猀猀 甀渀戀漀椀氀攀搀 眀椀渀攀 椀猀 愀搀搀攀搀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 洀椀最栀琀 ഊintroduce a miminal quantity of yeast), but it deep-fries well and the honey ਀昀氀愀瘀漀甀爀 栀愀爀洀漀渀椀猀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 猀眀攀攀琀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最猀⸀ഊ ਀䜀椀愀渀漀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:22:30 +0200 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 嘀漀氀欀攀爀 䈀愀挀栀 㰀挀愀爀氀琀漀渀开戀愀挀栀 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀搀攀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seeking Period pie Crust ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䄀洀 䐀漀渀渀攀爀猀琀愀最Ⰰ ㈀㤀⸀ 䨀甀渀椀 ㈀　　㘀 　㠀㨀㈀　 猀挀栀爀椀攀戀 爀愀渀瘀愀椀最 愀琀 挀漀氀甀洀戀甀猀⸀爀爀⸀挀漀洀㨀ഊ<<< Czu machen ein krapffen teig. ਀ഊTo make dough for Krapfen. ਀ഊModernly Krapfen are fried donuts, not pies. Maybe the word has ਀挀栀愀渀最攀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀椀猀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀 猀漀甀渀搀 氀椀欀攀 愀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀  䄀渀搀 ㄀⼀㈀ 挀 眀椀椀渀攀ഊfor 3 c flour sounds like too much liquid. ਀刀愀渀瘀愀椀最   㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 椀猀 昀漀爀 昀爀椀琀琀攀爀猀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 戀愀欀攀搀 最漀漀搀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 愀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 琀椀洀攀 椀琀✀猀 渀漀琀 昀漀爀 ഊanything like modern Krapfen. It makes something like deep-fried pastries, ਀愀渀搀 椀琀 挀愀渀 戀攀 戀愀欀攀搀 猀甀挀挀攀猀猀昀甀氀氀礀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀 椀琀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 戀攀栀愀瘀攀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 ഊcrust dough we are used to - much softer and liable to tear in unbaked form. ਀䤀琀 椀猀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 漀氀搀攀爀 戀礀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 搀攀挀愀搀攀猀 琀栀愀渀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀甀爀瘀椀瘀椀渀最 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 ഊrecipes, and indicates considerable variety in existence at the time. ਀ഊ1/2 cup is the high estimate - depends on what flour and what kind of honey ਀礀漀甀 甀猀攀 愀渀搀 栀漀眀 礀漀甀 氀椀欀攀 礀漀甀爀 搀漀甀最栀⸀ 䤀 洀椀最栀琀 眀攀氀氀 琀爀礀 氀攀猀猀 琀漀 最攀琀 愀 洀漀爀攀 ഊcrust-like mix, but for fritters, this makes a decent proportion. ਀ഊAlso, it's an early sweetened crust. That's a good thing. Almost a century ਀氀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 䬀漀攀欀攀爀礀攀 猀琀椀氀氀 爀攀昀攀爀猀 漀渀氀礀 琀漀 ✀洀愀欀攀 愀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀昀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 昀氀漀甀爀✀Ⰰ ഊwhich tastes less than satisfying. ਀ഊGiano ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㤀 䨀甀渀 ㈀　　㘀 　㘀㨀㔀　㨀㌀㄀ ⴀ　㜀　　 ⠀倀䐀吀⤀ഊFrom: Tomasia ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 匀攀攀欀椀渀最 倀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀椀攀 䌀爀甀猀琀ഊTo: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org ਀ഊwildecelery at aol.com: ਀㰀㰀㰀 䤀 愀洀 洀愀欀椀渀最 猀愀洀戀漀挀愀搀攀 ⠀挀栀攀攀猀攀挀愀欀攀 眀椀琀栀 爀漀猀攀眀愀琀攀爀ഊand elderflower) as part ਀漀昀 愀 刀漀礀愀氀琀礀 瀀爀攀猀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀 昀漀爀 倀攀渀渀猀椀挀⸀  䤀 瀀氀愀渀 琀漀ഊmake them tart/muffin tin ਀猀椀稀攀搀⸀  䐀漀攀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 ⠀礀攀琀ഊedible...not coffyn style) crust recipe? >>> ਀ഊBefore I answer, I should introduce myself as I have ਀戀攀攀渀 氀甀爀欀椀渀最 栀攀爀攀 昀漀爀 愀戀漀甀琀 㘀 洀漀渀琀栀猀⸀ 䴀礀 渀愀洀攀 椀猀ഊSignora Tomasia da Collivento, I am apprenticed to ਀䴀愀猀琀攀爀 䠀甀攀渀 䐀愀洀攀戀爀椀最最攀Ⰰ 漀眀渀攀爀 漀昀 䜀漀搀攀 䌀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀ 䤀ഊreside in Aethelmearc. Ciao to the list! ਀ഊI have been researching period pie crusts for about 2 ਀礀攀愀爀猀 渀漀眀⸀ 䤀 瀀氀愀渀 琀漀 瀀爀攀猀攀渀琀 琀栀椀猀 挀氀愀猀猀 琀栀椀猀 昀愀氀氀⸀ 䴀礀ഊhandout is nearly complete. My findings from over 30 ਀猀漀洀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 戀愀猀椀挀愀氀氀礀 挀漀洀攀 搀漀眀渀 琀漀 琀栀椀猀㨀 吀栀攀爀攀ഊare 8 basic period pastry recipes, each with their own ਀瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀 琀漀 攀渀栀愀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最⸀ 吀栀攀 漀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 眀漀甀氀搀ഊwork the best to enhance the sambocade is my redaction ਀漀昀 眀栀愀琀 䤀 挀愀氀氀 ഊ ਀∀吀栀攀 䌀甀猀琀愀爀搀 倀愀猀琀攀∀ഊThe original comes from Libro di Cucina - Recipe "C" ਀㌀⌀ 眀栀椀琀攀 昀氀漀甀爀ഊ1# Almonds ਀㄀⼀㈀⌀ 栀愀稀攀氀渀甀琀猀Ⰰ 琀漀愀猀琀攀搀Ⰰ 最爀漀甀渀搀ഊ1/4 c. butter melted ਀㈀吀 猀甀最愀爀ഊ2-3 T almond milk ਀䴀愀欀攀 愀氀洀漀渀搀 洀椀氀欀 昀爀漀洀 礀漀甀爀 愀氀洀漀渀搀猀⸀ 䐀爀愀椀渀 洀椀氀欀ഊreserving nuts and chop them well. Mix the almonds ਀眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 栀愀稀攀氀渀甀琀猀⸀ 䄀搀搀 猀甀最愀爀 愀渀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀ഊuntil your dough forms. This dough works out better if ਀礀漀甀 瀀爀攀猀猀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀愀渀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 椀昀 礀漀甀 爀漀氀氀 猀氀漀眀氀礀ഊon a WELL floured surface this will work. Place in ਀礀漀甀爀 瀀椀攀 瀀愀渀⸀ 䘀椀氀氀⸀ 䈀愀欀攀⸀ 夀椀攀氀搀㨀㈀ 挀爀甀猀琀猀ഊ ਀一漀琀攀猀㨀 吀栀椀猀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 琀攀猀琀攀搀 愀渀搀 愀挀挀攀瀀琀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀ഊpopulace and they loved it. For tarts grease your tart ਀瀀愀渀猀 眀攀氀氀 眀椀琀栀 䈀唀吀吀䔀刀⸀ 夀漀甀 洀愀礀 愀搀搀 ㄀⼀㈀ 琀 猀愀氀琀 琀漀 栀攀氀瀀ഊpreserve the crust a bit longer without affecting the ਀琀愀猀琀攀⸀ ㄀ 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀椀氀氀 礀椀攀氀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 㐀㠀 琀愀爀琀猀⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 甀猀攀搀ഊpecans as a substitute for hazelnuts due to price and ਀愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀椀氀椀琀礀⸀ 䄀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 攀砀琀爀愀 昀氀漀甀爀 眀椀氀氀 栀攀氀瀀 猀琀椀昀昀攀渀ഊthe dough a bit. ਀ഊIf anyone is interested in the hand out, either now or ਀眀栀攀渀 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀搀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 挀漀渀琀愀挀琀 洀攀 瀀爀椀瘀愀琀攀氀礀 愀琀㨀ഊtomasia at padronadicasa dot us. ਀䤀 栀漀瀀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀椀猀 眀椀氀氀 眀漀爀欀 眀攀氀氀 昀漀爀 礀漀甀⸀ഊ ਀匀椀最渀漀爀愀 吀漀洀愀猀椀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 13:06:26 -0700 (PDT) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䌀愀爀漀氀攀 匀洀椀琀栀 㰀爀攀渀愀椀猀猀愀渀挀攀猀瀀椀爀椀琀㈀ 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] help with a pie ਀吀漀㨀 搀愀椀氀氀攀甀爀猀 愀琀 氀椀爀椀瀀椀瀀攀⸀挀漀洀Ⰰऀ䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀ഊ ਀ഊI second what Anne-Marie said about overfilling the pie and about ਀挀栀椀氀氀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 愀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀⼀眀愀猀 挀栀椀氀氀攀搀  ഊbrowns slower, which may well be a good thing. ਀ഊ One more thought that might be useful. If you look at Robert ਀䴀愀礀✀猀 氀椀渀攀 搀爀愀眀椀渀最猀 漀昀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀漀瀀猀Ⰰ 愀氀氀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 昀愀渀挀礀 搀攀猀椀最渀猀  ഊ(which have holes) have a round hole in the middle. There's no way I ਀挀愀渀 琀栀椀渀欀 漀昀 琀漀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀 搀攀猀椀最渀 愀昀琀攀爀 戀愀欀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 搀愀洀愀最椀渀最 琀栀攀  ഊcrust once it is crispy, so I cut it before placing it over the ਀昀椀氀氀攀搀 瀀椀攀⸀  ⠀䘀甀渀渀礀 琀栀愀琀✀猀 攀砀愀挀琀氀礀 眀栀愀琀 洀礀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 挀漀甀猀椀渀 搀椀搀 愀渀搀 猀栀攀  ഊknows nothing about historic cooking.) ਀ഊ Cordelia Toser ਀ഊAnne-Marie Rousseau wrote: ਀   漀渀 瀀椀攀猀㨀ഊ ਀礀攀猀Ⰰ 挀栀椀氀氀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 氀攀琀 椀琀 戀愀欀攀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 椀琀 猀氀甀洀瀀攀搀 愀  ഊbit better. Like how you prebake a shell and it sometimes slumps on the edges? ਀ഊalso, overfilling the shell so that as teh fruit cooked down, you were left with a space helps (my homemade fruit pies will often have this by accident. grr. Blue ribbon pies dont do that. oh well. I tended to enter pickles in the ਀昀愀椀爀 愀渀礀眀愀礀⸀⤀ഊ ਀氀愀猀琀氀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 ∀猀氀甀洀瀀∀ 椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 洀甀挀栀 搀椀挀琀愀琀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 琀礀瀀攀 漀昀 挀爀甀猀琀⸀ 愀ഊsturdier crust will be less likely to slump (many of the period recipes for pie ਀挀爀甀猀琀 礀椀攀氀搀 愀 猀琀甀爀搀礀 搀漀甀最栀 椀渀搀攀攀搀⸀⸀⸀⤀⸀ 愀 猀漀昀琀 搀漀甀最栀 眀椀氀氀 猀氀甀洀瀀 洀漀爀攀⸀  䤀 氀攀愀爀渀攀搀 琀栀椀猀 琀栀攀 栀愀爀搀 眀愀礀⸀⸀⸀琀栀攀 琀攀猀琀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 洀礀 瀀愀爀洀愀 琀愀爀琀猀 栀愀搀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 氀椀琀琀氀攀  ഊsturdy crenellations. when we did it forthe banquet, in a hot kitchen with ਀猀琀漀爀攀 戀漀甀最栀琀 搀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 愀氀氀 猀氀甀洀瀀攀搀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 昀椀攀爀挀攀 愀渀搀 椀琀 眀愀猀 瘀攀爀礀 瘀攀爀礀 猀愀搀⸀ഊ ਀⠀愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 氀椀昀攀 氀攀猀猀漀渀⸀⸀⸀搀漀 礀漀甀爀 琀攀猀琀 眀椀琀栀 䔀堀䄀䌀吀䰀夀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀ഊbrands/recipe/ingredients/conditions for a true test....) ਀ഊhope this helps some! (raspberry cream tart sounds very yummy, by the ਀眀愀礀 㨀⤀⤀ഊ ਀ⴀⴀ䄀渀渀攀ⴀ䴀愀爀椀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 17:18:51 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀愀渀椀攀氀  倀栀攀氀瀀猀∀ 㰀瀀栀攀氀瀀猀搀 愀琀 最愀琀攀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] help with a pie ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀圀愀猀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀㨀ഊ<<< One more thought that might be useful. If you look at Robert May's line ਀搀爀愀眀椀渀最猀 漀昀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 琀漀瀀猀Ⰰ 愀氀氀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 昀愀渀挀礀 搀攀猀椀最渀猀 ⠀眀栀椀挀栀 栀愀瘀攀ഊholes) have a round hole in the middle. There's no way I can think of to ਀挀甀琀 琀栀攀 搀攀猀椀最渀 愀昀琀攀爀 戀愀欀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 搀愀洀愀最椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀渀挀攀 椀琀 椀猀 挀爀椀猀瀀礀Ⰰ 猀漀ഊI cut it before placing it over the filled pie. (Funny that's exactly what ਀洀礀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 挀漀甀猀椀渀 搀椀搀 愀渀搀 猀栀攀 欀渀漀眀猀 渀漀琀栀椀渀最 愀戀漀甀琀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最⸀⤀ 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀圀栀攀渀 䤀 挀漀漀欀 洀礀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 氀愀洀戀 瀀椀攀 䤀 瀀爀攀ⴀ戀愀挀欀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀 昀椀氀氀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀ഊcooked ground lamb and veggie mixture, pop on the pastry top and cut a ਀氀椀琀琀氀攀 堀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀攀渀琀攀爀 漀昀  琀栀攀 琀漀瀀⸀  䤀 琀栀攀渀 昀漀氀搀 戀愀挀欀 琀栀攀 昀漀甀爀 琀愀戀猀 挀爀攀愀琀攀搀ഊby the X, pour in sherry. and cook the pie. ਀ഊWorks for me. ਀ഊDaniel ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ 　㠀 䨀甀氀 ㈀　　㘀 ㄀㤀㨀㄀㌀㨀㐀㤀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Nina ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 栀攀氀瀀 眀椀琀栀 愀 瀀椀攀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊYou might try an old fashioned pie bird or pie funnel. Besides helping ਀瘀攀渀琀 琀栀攀 猀琀攀愀洀 琀漀 欀攀攀瀀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀 昀氀愀欀礀 愀渀搀 琀攀渀搀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 愀氀猀漀 栀攀氀瀀ഊkeep the top crust from sagging. ਀ഊOdette ਀ഊOn Fri Jul 7 11:44 , Devra at aol.com sent: ਀㸀 䠀攀氀瀀℀ 䄀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 挀愀氀氀 昀漀爀 愀 瀀椀攀 琀漀 戀攀 瀀愀爀琀氀礀 挀漀漀欀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊ> then a hole made in the crust and a 'lyre' of some kind of liquid poured in ਀㸀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 琀栀攀 昀椀渀椀猀栀椀渀最 挀漀漀欀椀渀最⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 渀椀挀攀 戀漀漀欀 ⠀✀䈀漀漀欀 漀昀 伀氀搀 吀愀爀琀猀✀⤀ 琀栀愀琀 䤀ഊ> got on sale while in England, and have been trying a few recipes. One ਀㸀 漀昀 琀栀攀洀 ⠀爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀礀 挀爀攀愀洀 琀愀爀琀⤀ 挀愀氀氀攀搀 昀漀爀 樀甀猀琀 猀甀挀栀 愀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:25:53 EDT ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䐀攀瘀爀愀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pie bird/pie funnel? ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀䄀 瀀椀攀 戀椀爀搀 椀猀 愀 栀漀氀氀漀眀 挀攀爀愀洀椀挀 椀琀攀洀Ⰰ 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀栀愀瀀攀 漀昀 愀 戀氀愀挀欀戀椀爀搀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 漀瀀攀渀 洀漀甀琀栀 ⠀欀椀渀搀 漀昀 瀀氀愀礀椀渀最 漀渀 琀栀攀 ✀㐀 ☀ ㈀　  戀氀愀挀欀戀椀爀搀猀✀  樀漀欀攀⸀⤀ 䤀琀 椀猀 瀀氀愀挀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 椀猀 瀀椀氀攀搀   愀爀漀甀渀搀 椀琀⸀ 吀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀 瀀甀琀 漀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瘀攀渀琀攀搀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 戀椀爀搀 猀漀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀   栀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 戀攀愀欀 瀀漀欀攀 漀甀琀⸀ 吀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 戀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 戀椀爀搀 昀甀渀挀琀椀漀渀猀 琀漀 瘀攀渀琀 猀琀攀愀洀   愀渀搀 愀氀猀漀 攀砀琀爀愀 氀椀焀甀椀搀㬀 椀琀 栀攀氀瀀猀 欀攀攀瀀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 昀爀漀洀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最 漀瘀攀爀⸀ 䤀 最甀攀猀猀 愀 瀀椀攀   昀甀渀渀攀氀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀攀爀瘀攀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 昀甀渀挀琀椀漀渀㬀 渀攀瘀攀爀 猀攀攀渀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀     䐀攀瘀爀愀Ⰰ 眀栀漀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 猀栀攀 栀愀搀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀洀 琀栀攀爀攀 琀栀椀渀最猀 栀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀眀栀攀爀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:36:23 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀漀栀渀渀愀 䠀漀氀氀漀眀愀礀 㰀樀漀栀渀渀愀 愀琀 猀椀琀欀愀⸀攀渀最椀渀⸀甀洀椀挀栀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Coffins was beets... ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䄀猀 爀攀最愀爀搀猀 挀漀昀昀礀渀猀ⴀⴀ 䤀瘀愀渀 䐀愀礀 栀愀猀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 漀昀 爀愀椀猀攀搀 瀀椀攀猀ഊalong with a description of various recipes. ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀昀漀漀搀⸀挀漀洀⼀倀椀攀─㈀　爀攀挀椀瀀攀⸀栀琀洀ഊhttp://www.historicfood.com/Pie%20recipe2.htm ਀ഊCoffins need not be casket shaped. ਀䄀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 愀氀猀漀 眀愀猀 愀 戀愀猀欀攀琀⸀ 伀䔀䐀 猀愀礀猀ഊ*coffin* ਀ഊ*1. * A basket; transl. L. /cophinus/, Gr. /ko/enticons/acute.giffinoj/. ਀ഊ[So in OF. and many mod.F. dialects.] ਀ഊ * *C. 1380* Wyclif /Serm./ Sel. Wks. I. 62 ?ei gedriden and filden ਀       琀眀攀氀瘀攀 挀漀昀昀礀渀攀猀 漀昀 爀攀氀椀昀 漀昀 昀礀瘀攀 戀愀爀氀礀 氀漀瘀攀猀㬀ഊ * *1382* Wyclif /2 Kings/ x. 7 Thei..slewen the seventy men, and ਀       瀀甀琀琀攀渀 琀栀攀 栀攀瘀攀搀椀猀 漀昀 栀攀洀 椀渀 挀漀昀礀渀攀猀⸀ഊ * *1432-50* tr. /Higden/ (Rolls) I. 15 Gedrenge..the fragmentes of ਀       琀栀攀 挀漀瀀栀椀渀渀攀猀 爀攀洀愀渀攀渀琀⸀ഊ * *1542* Elyot /Dict./, /Tibin/, a baskette or coffyn made of ਀       眀礀挀欀攀爀猀 漀爀 戀甀氀氀 爀甀猀栀攀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 戀愀爀欀攀 漀昀 愀 琀爀攀攀㨀 猀甀挀栀 漀漀渀攀 眀愀猀 䴀漀礀猀攀猀ഊ put in to. ਀ഊ*. * Cookery.* * A mould of paste for a pie; the crust of a pie. Obs. ਀ഊ * *C. 1420* /Liber Cocorum/ (1862) 41 Make a cofyne as to smalle pye. ਀     ⨀ ⨀䌀⸀ ㄀㐀㈀　⨀ ⼀䌀漀漀欀攀爀礀 䈀欀⸀⼀ 㐀㔀 䴀愀欀攀 昀愀礀爀攀 瀀愀猀琀 漀昀 昀氀漀眀爀攀 ☀ 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰഊ Sugre, & Safroun, & Salt; & ?an make fayre round cofyns ?er-of; ਀     ⨀ ⨀㄀㔀㠀㠀⨀ 匀栀愀欀猀⸀ ⼀吀椀琀⸀ 䄀⸀⼀ 瘀⸀ 椀椀⸀ ㄀㠀㤀 伀昀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀攀 愀 挀漀昀昀攀渀 䤀 眀椀氀氀ഊ reare. ਀     ⨀ ⨀䄀⸀ ㄀㘀㔀㐀⨀ 匀攀氀搀攀渀 ⼀吀愀戀氀攀ⴀ琀⸀⼀ ⠀䄀爀戀⸀⤀ ㌀㌀ 吀栀攀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀 漀昀 漀甀爀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀洀愀猀ഊ Pies in shape long, is in imitation of the Cratch. ਀ഊIt was also ਀䄀 瀀愀瀀攀爀 挀愀猀攀㬀 猀瀀攀挀⸀ 愀 爀攀挀攀瀀琀愀挀氀攀 洀愀搀攀 戀礀 琀眀椀猀琀椀渀最 瀀愀瀀攀爀 椀渀琀漀 愀 挀漀渀椀挀愀氀ഊform or `cornet', to contain groceries, etc., or for use as a filter; ਀猀琀椀氀氀 愀瀀瀀氀椀攀搀 戀礀 瀀爀椀渀琀攀爀猀 琀漀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀愀瀀攀爀 戀愀最猀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 猀栀愀瀀攀 琀漀 栀漀氀搀ഊspare type, superfluous sorts, etc.*1577* Frampton /Joyful News/ (1580) ਀㐀㈀ 吀栀攀 猀洀漀欀攀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 䠀攀愀爀戀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 琀栀攀礀 爀攀挀攀愀甀攀 愀琀 琀栀攀 洀漀甀琀栀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀ഊcertaine coffins, suche as the Grocers do vse to put in their Spices. ਀ഊThere are various reasons why pies might have been round. Stability ਀椀猀 漀渀攀 愀猀瀀攀挀琀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 愀氀猀漀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 昀愀爀 攀愀猀椀攀爀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀攀 愀 瀀椀攀挀爀甀猀琀 椀渀 愀ഊround shape. ਀ഊJohnnae ਀ഊStephanie Ross wrote: ਀㸀 䄀氀猀漀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ> Were there certain shapes for making cofyns/coffins, and did the shapes ਀㸀 挀栀愀渀最攀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 挀攀渀琀甀爀椀攀猀㼀 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 椀洀愀最椀渀攀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 洀漀爀攀 眀愀猀琀攀昀甀氀 漀昀 猀瀀愀挀攀ഊ> in an oven than a round pie tin. Weren't coffins square for the most part? ਀㸀 圀栀愀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 礀漀甀 甀猀攀 琀漀 椀洀椀琀愀琀攀 愀 挀漀昀昀椀渀 瀀愀渀㼀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 愀渀 㠀 堀 㠀 瀀愀渀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀ഊ> too deep, but I'm really not sure. ਀㸀 縀䄀椀猀氀椀渀渀縀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 22:53:09 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Speaking of beets... ਀吀漀㨀 㰀栀氀愀椀猀氀椀渀渀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀㸀Ⰰऀ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ഊ ਀ഊ> Also, I have another question. ਀㸀 圀攀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀 猀栀愀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀 洀愀欀椀渀最 挀漀昀礀渀猀⼀挀漀昀昀椀渀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 搀椀搀 琀栀攀 猀栀愀瀀攀猀ഊ> change over the centuries? I can't imagine anything more wasteful of space ਀㸀 椀渀 愀渀 漀瘀攀渀 琀栀愀渀 愀 爀漀甀渀搀 瀀椀攀 琀椀渀⸀ 圀攀爀攀渀✀琀 挀漀昀昀椀渀猀 猀焀甀愀爀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 洀漀猀琀 瀀愀爀琀㼀ഊ> What could you use to imitate a coffin pan? I think an 8 X 8 pan would be ਀㸀 琀漀漀 搀攀攀瀀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀✀洀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 渀漀琀 猀甀爀攀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 縀䄀椀猀氀椀渀渀縀ഊ ਀䈀爀攀愀搀 眀愀猀 爀漀甀渀搀Ⰰ 琀爀愀瀀瀀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 爀漀甀渀搀Ⰰ 琀愀爀琀 瀀愀渀猀 眀攀爀攀 爀漀甀渀搀Ⰰ 猀漀 䤀 猀攀攀 渀漀ഊparticular problem with a round, free standing coffyn. When you are talking ਀愀戀漀甀琀 愀 栀攀洀椀猀瀀栀攀爀椀挀愀氀 戀愀欀椀渀最 挀栀愀洀戀攀爀 ⠀昀愀椀爀氀礀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 椀渀 栀攀愀琀 洀愀猀猀 漀瘀攀渀猀⤀Ⰰഊsquare or rectangular actually wastes space. ਀ഊAs a baker, I would say the shape of the piece is less of an issue than ਀戀攀椀渀最 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 最攀琀 椀琀 椀渀 愀渀搀 漀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 猀栀愀瀀攀 漀昀 愀渀礀 瀀愀渀猀Ⰰ 洀漀氀搀猀ഊor utensils for preparing the dish. In fact, I was looking at a wood-cut ਀琀漀渀椀最栀琀 漀昀 愀 琀愀爀琀 猀栀愀瀀攀搀 氀椀欀攀 愀 瀀攀愀挀漀挀欀 眀栀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 戀漀搀礀 椀猀 昀漀爀洀攀搀 椀渀 愀渀 漀瘀愀氀ഊpan. I can also see where a heavy paste might have been shaped to the cut ਀漀昀 洀攀愀琀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 洀愀搀攀 爀漀甀渀搀Ⰰ 猀焀甀愀爀攀Ⰰ 漀爀 猀漀洀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 猀栀愀瀀攀⸀ഊ ਀䄀猀 昀漀爀 搀攀瀀琀栀Ⰰ 椀渀 琀栀攀 椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 琀爀愀瀀瀀攀猀 氀漀漀欀 氀椀欀攀 搀攀攀瀀 挀愀猀猀攀爀漀氀攀 瀀愀渀猀ഊwith sides that might be 4 to 8 inches deep, while tart pans have relatively ਀猀栀愀氀氀漀眀 猀椀搀攀猀⸀  吀栀攀 瀀愀渀猀 礀漀甀 甀猀攀搀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 搀攀挀椀搀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀栀ഊyou were preparing and the type of paste or dough you used. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ 　㠀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㘀 　㜀㨀㔀㄀㨀㔀㌀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Johnna Holloway ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 倀椀攀 匀栀愀瀀攀爀猀㨀  圀愀猀 匀瀀攀愀欀椀渀最 漀昀 䈀攀攀琀猀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊThe web sites that I gave in the posting on coffins ਀愀氀猀漀 猀栀漀眀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀 昀爀漀洀 刀漀戀攀爀琀 䴀愀礀ഊand several raised pies-- ਀ഊSee also the marvelous cutwork custard pies at ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀昀漀漀搀⸀挀漀洀⼀匀攀琀挀甀猀琀愀爀搀猀⸀栀琀洀ഊ ਀䄀猀 爀攀最愀爀搀猀 挀漀昀昀礀渀猀ⴀⴀ 䤀瘀愀渀 䐀愀礀 栀愀猀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 漀昀 爀愀椀猀攀搀 瀀椀攀猀ഊalong with a description of various recipes. ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀昀漀漀搀⸀挀漀洀⼀倀椀攀─㈀　爀攀挀椀瀀攀⸀栀琀洀ഊhttp://www.historicfood.com/Pie%20recipe2.htm ਀ഊJohnnae ਀ഊTerry Decker wrote: ਀㸀 伀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 最爀攀愀琀 猀欀椀氀氀猀 漀昀 愀 戀愀欀攀爀 椀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 挀甀琀 愀渀搀 昀漀爀洀 搀漀甀最栀 戀礀ഊ> hand to produce decorations for breads and other bakegoods (I haven't ਀㸀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀攀搀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 戀攀 愀渀礀眀栀攀爀攀 渀攀愀爀 最漀漀搀⤀⸀  吀栀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 昀漀甀渀搀ഊ> makes me think molds were used where freehand decoration wasn't practical ਀㸀 ⠀愀猀 眀椀琀栀 最椀渀最攀爀 戀爀攀愀搀⤀ 漀爀 眀栀攀爀攀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀搀 ⠀愀猀  ഊ> with the Eucharist). ਀㸀ഊ> Using molds with a pie shaper or for a pie cover would probably work, but I ਀㸀 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 猀攀攀渀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 琀漀 猀甀最最攀猀琀 椀琀 漀挀挀甀爀爀攀搀⸀  䤀琀✀猀 愀渀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最  ഊ> question. ਀㸀ഊ> Bear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ 㤀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㘀 ㄀㔀㨀㐀㐀㨀㄀㌀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Elise Fleming" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 倀椀攀 匀栀愀瀀攀爀猀ഊTo: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" ਀ഊCealian wrote: ਀㸀 一漀眀 礀漀甀 猀攀攀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀攀挀漀渀搀 猀椀琀攀 栀愀猀 挀爀漀眀渀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 瘀攀渀琀 漀渀ഊ> top bottom of the picture. That one is the one which set me to ਀㸀 琀栀椀渀欀椀渀最 漀昀 眀漀漀搀 挀甀琀 洀漀氀搀⸀ഊ ( http://www.historicfood.com/Pie%20recipe.htm ) ਀ഊActually, I believe Cealian is correct. That crown was made using ਀䤀瘀愀渀✀猀 最椀渀最攀爀戀爀攀愀搀 洀漀氀搀 眀栀椀挀栀 䨀漀栀渀渀愀攀Ⰰ 䤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀猀 甀猀攀搀 氀愀猀琀  ഊApril. Ivan let me make a "Sculpy" copy of it which is sitting in my ਀欀椀琀挀栀攀渀⸀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀稀愀爀搀 愀 最甀攀猀猀 琀栀愀琀 䤀瘀愀渀 甀猀攀搀 琀栀攀 洀漀氀搀 琀漀 瀀爀椀渀琀 琀栀攀  ഊcrowns, cut around the shape and affixed that dough to the side of ਀琀栀攀 瀀椀攀⸀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀琀愀欀攀 愀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀 漀昀 洀椀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 洀漀氀搀 眀愀猀 甀猀攀搀Ⰰ  ഊalthough I'm not sure about the cutting-out method. ਀ഊAlys Katharine ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ 　㤀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㘀 ㈀㌀㨀㔀　㨀㐀㤀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Johnna Holloway ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 倀椀攀 匀栀愀瀀攀爀猀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊStart with Three pies were made from seventeenth century designs ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀昀漀漀搀⸀挀漀洀⼀倀椀攀─㈀　爀攀挀椀瀀攀⸀栀琀洀ഊ ਀一漀眀 挀漀洀瀀愀爀攀 琀栀漀猀攀 瀀椀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀猀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀搀 栀攀爀攀ഊhttp://www.historicfood.com/FransFranken.htm ਀ഊThe picture is by Frans Franken [Frans Francken II] ਀愀渀搀 眀愀猀 瀀愀椀渀琀攀搀 椀渀 挀椀爀挀愀 ㄀㘀　㌀ⴀ㄀㘀　㔀⸀ഊIt's titled /Lazarus and Dives/ or Der Arme Lazarus. ਀匀漀 搀攀挀漀爀愀琀攀搀 瀀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀椀渀最 椀渀 瀀愀椀渀琀椀渀最猀 樀甀猀琀 愀昀琀攀爀 ㄀㘀　　⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 瀀愀椀渀琀椀渀最 䰀愀稀愀爀甀猀 愀琀 琀栀攀 刀椀挀栀 䴀愀渀✀猀 吀愀戀氀攀Ⰰ ㄀㘀㄀㠀 戀礀 䬀愀猀瀀愀爀 瘀愀渀 搀攀渀 䠀漀攀挀欀攀ഊis also probably the inspiration for the pie with the peacock. It's featured ਀漀渀 琀栀攀 昀爀漀渀琀 漀昀 吀栀攀 倀氀攀愀猀甀爀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 吀愀戀氀攀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 愀 戀漀漀欀 琀栀愀琀 䤀瘀愀渀ഊday co-authored with Peter Brown. I've [not] found anything on the web ਀攀砀挀攀瀀琀 昀漀爀 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 瀀漀猀琀攀爀猀⸀ഊ ਀䨀漀栀渀渀愀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:35:44 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀漀栀渀渀愀 䠀漀氀氀漀眀愀礀 㰀樀漀栀渀渀愀 愀琀 猀椀琀欀愀⸀攀渀最椀渀⸀甀洀椀挀栀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pie Shapers ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䤀 猀栀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 瀀漀猀琀 氀愀琀攀 漀渀 匀愀琀甀爀搀愀礀 渀椀最栀琀猀⸀ഊIt's Ivan Day and I found only posters on the web of that Lazarus ਀瀀愀椀渀琀椀渀最⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 猀漀 椀琀✀猀 愀 爀椀挀栀 愀爀攀愀 琀漀 攀砀瀀氀漀爀攀⸀ഊ ਀䨀漀栀渀渀愀攀⸀ഊ ਀㸀 吀栀攀 瀀愀椀渀琀椀渀最 䰀愀稀愀爀甀猀 愀琀 琀栀攀 刀椀挀栀 䴀愀渀✀猀 吀愀戀氀攀Ⰰ ㄀㘀㄀㠀 戀礀 䬀愀猀瀀愀爀 瘀愀渀 搀攀渀 䠀漀攀挀欀攀ഊ> is also probably the inspiration for the pie with the peacock. It's featured ਀㸀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀爀漀渀琀 漀昀 吀栀攀 倀氀攀愀猀甀爀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 吀愀戀氀攀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 愀 戀漀漀欀 琀栀愀琀 䤀瘀愀渀ഊ> day co-authored with Peter Brown.I've found anything on the web ਀㸀 攀砀挀攀瀀琀 昀漀爀 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 瀀漀猀琀攀爀猀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 21:11:54 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pie Shapers ਀吀漀㨀 㰀愀氀礀猀欀 愀琀 椀砀⸀渀攀琀挀漀洀⸀挀漀洀㸀Ⰰऀ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ഊ ਀ഊ> Cealian wrote: ਀㸀㸀 一漀眀 礀漀甀 猀攀攀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀攀挀漀渀搀 猀椀琀攀 栀愀猀 挀爀漀眀渀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀 眀椀琀栀  ഊ>> a vent on ਀㸀㸀 琀漀瀀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀⸀ 吀栀愀琀 漀渀攀 椀猀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀 眀栀椀挀栀 猀攀琀 洀攀 琀漀  ഊ>> thinking of wood cut mold. ਀㸀 ⠀ 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀昀漀漀搀⸀挀漀洀⼀倀椀攀─㈀　爀攀挀椀瀀攀⸀栀琀洀 ⤀ഊ> ਀㸀 䄀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 䌀攀愀氀椀愀渀 椀猀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀⸀  吀栀愀琀 挀爀漀眀渀 眀愀猀 洀愀搀攀 甀猀椀渀最 䤀瘀愀渀✀猀ഊ> gingerbread mold which Johnnae, I, and others used last April. Ivan let ਀㸀 洀攀 洀愀欀攀 愀 ∀匀挀甀氀瀀礀∀ 挀漀瀀礀 漀昀 椀琀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 猀椀琀琀椀渀最 椀渀 洀礀 欀椀琀挀栀攀渀⸀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀ഊ> hazard a guess that Ivan used the mold to print the crowns, cut around the ਀㸀 猀栀愀瀀攀 愀渀搀 愀昀昀椀砀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 搀漀甀最栀 琀漀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀⸀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀琀愀欀攀 愀ഊ> cookbook of mine that the mold was used, although I'm not sure ਀㸀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 挀甀琀琀椀渀最ⴀ漀甀琀 洀攀琀栀漀搀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䄀氀礀猀 䬀愀琀栀愀爀椀渀攀ഊ ਀䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 琀攀氀氀 椀昀 琀栀攀 挀爀漀眀渀猀 愀爀攀 椀洀瀀爀椀渀琀攀搀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀氀礀 愀渀搀 愀昀昀椀砀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀ഊpanels or if the crown is cut into plate that would create the panel while ਀攀洀戀漀猀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀爀漀眀渀⸀  吀栀攀 瀀椀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 爀椀最栀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 愀猀 椀昀 椀琀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 挀愀爀瘀攀搀Ⰰഊbut due to the even work and sharpness of the detail, I'm wondering if it ਀栀愀猀渀✀琀 戀攀攀渀 瀀爀攀猀猀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 愀 昀氀愀琀 猀琀爀椀瀀 漀昀 搀漀甀最栀 眀椀琀栀 愀 洀漀搀攀爀渀氀礀 洀椀氀氀攀搀ഊrolling stamp. ਀ഊI've got 15 pounds of flour and a can of shortening. Using Markham's short ਀搀漀甀最栀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀Ⰰ 䤀 挀愀渀 搀漀 猀漀洀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀椀渀最⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 愀 猀椀洀渀攀氀 搀攀挀漀爀愀琀攀搀 氀椀欀攀ഊone of these pies might be fun. ਀ഊCome to think of it, I've inherited some German tin molds. It might be fun ਀琀漀 搀爀漀瀀 䴀愀爀欀栀愀洀✀猀 ∀瀀椀攀 漀昀 洀椀渀挀攀搀 洀攀愀琀∀ 洀愀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 氀愀洀戀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀栀愀瀀攀 漀昀 愀 氀愀洀戀ഊon the head table one of these days. Not quite period, due to the style of ਀洀漀氀搀 ⠀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀⤀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 昀甀渀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 21:57:19 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cofyns ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀㸀 䠀攀爀攀✀猀 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 挀愀洀攀 甀瀀 眀栀椀氀攀 䤀 眀愀猀 栀攀氀瀀椀渀最 琀漀 樀甀搀最攀 琀栀攀 刀漀礀愀氀ഊ> Baker competition in Atlantia: ਀㸀ഊ> When a recipe refers to a "Cofyn", does it ALWAYS mean an inedible pie ਀㸀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀爀 椀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 爀漀漀洀 琀漀 愀猀猀甀洀攀⼀瀀爀漀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 眀愀猀 愀渀 攀搀椀戀氀攀 挀爀甀猀琀㼀ഊ> ਀㸀 嘀椀琀栀愀ഊ> Lady Hrosvitha von Celle ਀ഊCoffin, in any of its various spellings, is usually a reference to a ਀挀漀渀琀愀椀渀攀爀㬀 愀 戀愀猀欀攀琀Ⰰ 愀 戀漀砀Ⰰ 愀 挀栀攀猀琀 漀爀 愀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 猀漀洀攀 洀漀爀攀ഊobscure meanings, but let's stick with the container. The word in this ਀甀猀愀最攀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 昀爀漀洀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀礀 ㄀㔀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 ㄀㠀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀ഊIn most references, they are talking about a pastry pie shell, but Hugh Plat ਀洀愀欀攀猀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 ∀挀漀昀昀椀渀猀 漀昀 眀栀椀琀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀∀ 椀渀 䐀攀氀椀最栀琀猀 昀漀爀 䰀愀搀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䌀漀昀昀椀渀猀 爀愀渀最攀 昀爀漀洀 愀 栀愀爀搀 瀀愀猀琀攀 漀昀 昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀 琀漀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀攀愀渀 瀀椀攀ഊshells that are apparently meant to be eaten. According to the OED, there ਀椀猀 愀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 挀漀昀昀椀渀猀 昀爀漀洀 ∀㄀㐀㈀　 䌀漀漀欀攀爀礀 䈀欀⸀∀ 琀栀愀琀 爀攀愀搀猀Ⰰ ∀洀愀欀攀 昀愀礀爀攀ഊpast of flowre & water, Sugre, & Safroun & Salt; & then make fayre, round ਀挀漀昀礀渀猀 琀栀攀爀攀漀昀⸀∀ ⠀猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀椀渀最 ∀琀栀∀ 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 琀栀漀爀渀 猀礀洀戀漀氀⤀⸀ഊIn this case, the addition of sugar makes me think this coffin was meant to ਀戀攀 攀愀琀攀渀⸀  䘀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 ㄀㐀㈀　 搀愀琀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 椀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 䠀愀爀氀攀椀愀渀 ㈀㜀㤀⸀ഊ ਀䤀䤀刀䌀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀椀攀猀琀 愀搀搀椀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀愀琀 琀漀 愀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 眀漀甀氀搀ഊimprove the edibility, is mid-16th Century. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ 㐀 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　㜀 ㈀㌀㨀　㄀㨀㐀㤀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Daniel Myers ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀漀昀礀渀猀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊOn Mar 4, 2007, at 10:01 PM, Kerri Martinsen wrote: ਀㸀 䠀攀爀攀✀猀 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 挀愀洀攀 甀瀀 眀栀椀氀攀 䤀 眀愀猀 栀攀氀瀀椀渀最 琀漀 樀甀搀最攀 琀栀攀ഊ> Royal Baker competition in Atlantia: ਀㸀ഊ> When a recipe refers to a "Cofyn", does it ALWAYS mean an inedible ਀㸀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀爀 椀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 爀漀漀洀 琀漀 愀猀猀甀洀攀⼀瀀爀漀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 眀愀猀 愀渀 攀搀椀戀氀攀 挀爀甀猀琀㼀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 猀漀洀攀 挀氀攀愀爀 瀀爀漀漀昀 琀栀愀琀 爀愀椀猀攀搀 挀漀昀昀椀渀猀 眀攀爀攀渀✀琀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 椀渀攀搀椀戀氀攀ഊ- note the marked text. ਀ഊ From "The Good Huswifes Handmaide for the Kitchen", Stuart Peachey ਀⠀攀搀⸀⤀  ⴀ  䔀渀最氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 挀⸀ ㄀㔀㠀㠀ഊTo make Paste, and to raise Coffins. Take fine flower, and lay it on ਀愀 戀漀漀爀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀愀欀攀 愀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀攀 漀昀 礀漀氀欀攀猀 漀昀 䔀最最攀猀 愀猀 礀漀甀爀 焀甀愀渀琀椀琀椀攀 漀昀ഊflower is, then take a certaine of Butter and water, and boil them ਀琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 礀攀 洀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 栀攀攀搀 礀攀 瀀甀琀 渀漀琀 琀漀漀 洀愀渀礀 礀漀氀欀猀 漀昀 䔀最最攀猀Ⰰഊfor if you doe, ***it will make it drie and not pleasant in ਀攀愀琀椀渀最⨀⨀⨀㨀 愀渀搀 礀攀攀 洀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 栀攀攀搀 礀攀 瀀甀琀 渀漀琀 椀渀 琀漀漀 洀甀挀栀 䈀甀琀琀攀爀 昀漀爀ഊif you doe, it will make it so fine and short that you cannot raise. ਀䄀渀搀 琀栀椀猀 瀀愀猀琀攀 椀猀 最漀漀搀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀攀 愀氀氀 洀愀渀渀攀爀 漀昀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀猀㨀 䰀椀欀攀眀椀猀攀 椀昀 礀攀ഊbake Venison, bake it in the paste above named. ਀ഊI've got some notes collected about pie crusts online, but not too ਀洀愀渀礀 挀漀渀挀氀甀猀椀漀渀猀 礀攀琀⸀ഊ ਀ऀ栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀挀漀洀⼀渀漀琀攀猀⼀瀀椀攀挀爀甀猀琀⸀猀栀琀洀ഊ ਀ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 19:36:16 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀 㰀攀搀漀愀爀搀 愀琀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cofyns ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 䴀愀爀 㔀Ⰰ ㈀　　㜀Ⰰ 愀琀 㜀㨀㄀㜀 䄀䴀Ⰰ 倀栀椀氀 吀爀漀礀 ⼀ 䜀⸀ 吀愀挀椀琀甀猀 䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Isn't there a relatively early French piecrust recipe in verse that ਀㸀 椀猀 洀漀爀攀 漀爀 氀攀猀猀 挀漀渀琀攀洀瀀漀爀愀爀礀 眀椀琀栀 䰀攀 䴀攀渀愀最椀攀爀 愀渀搀 吀愀椀氀氀攀瘀攀渀琀㼀 䄀猀 䤀ഊ> recall (which I don't, not very well) it called for little bits of ਀㸀 昀愀琀⸀ 䴀愀礀戀攀 椀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 椀渀 愀 昀漀漀琀渀漀琀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 倀椀挀栀漀渀 攀搀椀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 䰀攀ഊ> Menagier? ਀ഊThe recipe below from Viandier (1485) seems to suggest a crust made ਀眀椀琀栀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀吀䄀刀吀刀䔀匀 䌀伀唀嘀䔀刀吀䔀匀⸀ 吀愀爀琀爀攀猀 挀漀甀瘀攀爀琀攀猀Ⰰ 猀漀椀琀 搀攀猀琀爀愀洀瀀㼀ഊla crouste d'oeufz et de beurre, la farce destramp?e de deux ਀漀攀甀昀稀 攀琀 搀✀攀愀甀攀 攀渀 挀栀攀猀挀甀渀攀 琀愀爀琀爀攀 攀琀 渀漀渀 瀀氀甀猀Ⰰ 攀琀 戀攀甀爀爀攀ഊdestramp? avec le fromage broy? en ung mortier. ਀ഊ ਀嬀爀漀甀最栀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀崀ഊCOVERED TARTS. Covered tarts, that is tempered ਀琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 漀昀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最 琀攀洀瀀攀爀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 琀眀漀ഊeggs and water for each tart and no more, and butter ਀琀攀洀瀀攀爀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 最爀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 愀 洀漀爀琀愀爀⸀ഊ ਀ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ਀   䔀搀漀甀愀爀搀 䠀愀氀椀搀愀椀  ⠀䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀⤀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:42:13 +1200 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䄀渀琀漀渀椀愀 䌀愀氀瘀漀 㰀氀愀搀礀愀搀攀氀攀 愀琀 瀀愀爀愀搀椀猀攀⸀渀攀琀⸀渀稀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Coffyn Paste ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䰀椀氀椀渀愀栀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ<<< We've had some lively conversations about the dough needed to make an ਀椀渀攀搀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ 昀爀攀攀ⴀ猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 挀漀昀昀礀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀 昀攀眀 洀漀渀琀栀猀⸀ഊ ਀倀攀漀瀀氀攀 栀愀瘀攀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀 ⴀ 昀氀漀甀爀 ⴀ 氀愀爀搀 愀渀搀⼀漀爀 眀愀琀攀爀 ⴀ 猀愀氀琀 ⴀ ഊsometimes eggs. But i don't recall seeing one with some idea of ਀瀀爀漀瀀漀爀琀椀漀渀猀⸀ 䤀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀愀琀 昀氀漀甀爀猀 瘀愀爀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 琀栀攀礀✀氀氀 ഊabsorb, so i'm not asking for an exact recipe. But i was hoping to get ਀猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 洀漀爀攀 搀攀琀愀椀氀猀 琀栀愀渀 樀甀猀琀 愀 氀椀猀琀 漀昀 瀀漀琀攀渀琀椀愀氀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 爀攀愀氀椀稀攀 琀栀椀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 戀愀猀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀 漀昀 挀漀漀欀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 氀椀猀琀 ഊand not an actual historical recipe. >>> ਀ഊI just use Mrs. Beeton's recipe (no. 1217)-- 1lb flour, 10oz water, 3oz ਀昀愀琀⸀  ഊ ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀洀爀猀戀攀攀琀漀渀⸀挀漀洀⼀㈀㜀ⴀ挀栀愀瀀琀攀爀㈀㜀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ-- ਀䄀渀琀漀渀椀愀 搀椀 䈀攀渀攀搀攀琀琀漀 䌀愀氀瘀漀 ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:53:41 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䐀愀渀椀攀氀 䴀礀攀爀猀 㰀攀搀漀愀爀搀 愀琀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Coffyn Pan? ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 䨀愀渀 ㄀㜀Ⰰ ㈀　　㠀Ⰰ 愀琀 㘀㨀㌀　 倀䴀Ⰰ 䔀氀椀猀攀 䘀氀攀洀椀渀最 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Doc wrote: ਀㸀㸀 吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 挀氀攀愀爀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀ഊ>> intended to be eaten, that they were not always thick, and that they ਀㸀㸀 眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 昀椀渀攀 昀氀漀甀爀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 爀礀攀⸀ 䤀✀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 愀ഊ>> number of recipes and pictures on the subject, and have them online ਀㸀㸀 愀琀 琀栀攀 唀刀䰀 戀攀氀漀眀⸀ഊ>> http://www.medievalcookery.com/notes/piecrust.shtm ਀㸀ഊ> What a superb web page! Just the thing I was always hoping someone would ਀㸀 搀漀⸀  圀栀椀氀攀 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 搀椀猀愀最爀攀攀 琀栀愀琀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 挀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 攀愀琀攀渀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊ> missing crusts that are pictured there, I don't think that that is what ਀㸀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 栀愀瀀瀀攀渀攀搀⸀  䤀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 眀攀爀攀 戀爀漀欀攀渀 椀渀琀漀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 眀愀猀 渀漀琀ഊ> edible, would it really have been left on the serving dish? I would ਀㸀 猀甀爀洀椀猀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 洀椀最栀琀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 愀渀搀 最椀瘀攀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀漀漀爀 ⴀ 漀爀 琀漀ഊ> whomever the leftovers went. ਀ഊYes, they might have thrown/given the crust away, but then there's ਀琀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 ⠀渀漀琀攀 琀栀攀 瀀愀爀琀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 ⨀⨀⨀⤀㨀ഊ ਀吀漀 洀愀欀攀 倀愀猀琀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀攀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀猀⸀ 吀愀欀攀 昀椀渀攀 昀氀漀眀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 氀愀礀 椀琀 漀渀ഊa boord, and take a certaine of yolkes of Egges as your quantitie of ਀昀氀漀眀攀爀 椀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀愀欀攀 愀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀攀 漀昀 䈀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 戀漀椀氀 琀栀攀洀ഊtogether, ਀⨀⨀⨀戀甀琀 礀攀 洀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 栀攀攀搀 礀攀 瀀甀琀 渀漀琀 琀漀漀 洀愀渀礀 礀漀氀欀猀 漀昀 䔀最最攀猀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 椀昀ഊyou doe, it will make it drie and not pleasant in eating:***and yee ਀洀甀猀琀 琀愀欀攀 栀攀攀搀 礀攀 瀀甀琀 渀漀琀 椀渀 琀漀漀 洀甀挀栀 䈀甀琀琀攀爀 昀漀爀 椀昀 礀漀甀 搀漀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 眀椀氀氀ഊmake it so fine and short that you cannot raise. And this paste is ਀最漀漀搀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀攀 愀氀氀 洀愀渀渀攀爀 漀昀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀猀㨀 䰀椀欀攀眀椀猀攀 椀昀 礀攀 戀愀欀攀 嘀攀渀椀猀漀渀Ⰰഊbake it in the paste above named. [The Good Huswifes Handmaide for ਀琀栀攀 䬀椀琀挀栀攀渀Ⰰ 匀琀甀愀爀琀 倀攀愀挀栀攀礀 ⠀攀搀⸀⤀崀ഊ ਀ⴀ 䐀漀挀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:05:21 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Coffyn Pan? ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䠀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 愀 昀攀眀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 䤀 氀椀昀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 匀愀猀猀 礀攀愀爀猀 愀最漀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀伀昀 琀栀攀 䴀椀砀琀甀爀攀 漀昀 倀愀猀琀攀⸀⸀⸀夀漀甀爀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 圀栀攀愀琀ⴀ挀爀甀猀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 欀渀攀愀搀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 栀漀琀ഊwater, or Mutton broth, and good store of butter, and the paste stiff and ਀琀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀愀琀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀 洀甀猀琀 戀攀 搀攀攀瀀⸀ഊ ਀䜀攀爀瘀愀猀攀 䴀愀爀欀栀愀洀Ⰰ 吀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 䠀漀甀猀ⴀ眀椀昀攀Ⰰ ㄀㘀㄀㔀ഊ ਀吀漀 洀愀欀攀 倀愀猀琀攀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 圀愀礀⸀  吀愀欀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 愀氀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀攀攀琀栀 琀栀攀洀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀㬀ഊthen take your flower, and put there into three egs, sugar, saffron, and ਀猀愀氀琀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 䜀漀漀搀 䠀甀猀眀椀瘀攀猀 䠀愀渀搀洀愀椀搀 昀漀爀 䌀漀漀欀攀爀椀攀Ⰰ ㄀㔀㠀㠀ഊ ਀䄀渀漀琀栀攀爀 圀愀礀⸀  吀栀攀渀 洀愀欀攀 礀漀甀爀 瀀愀猀琀攀 眀椀琀栀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 昀愀椀爀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 礀漀氀欀猀 漀昀ഊtwo or three Egs, and so soone as ye have driven your paste, cast on a ਀氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 爀漀猀攀眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀爀搀攀渀 礀漀甀爀 瀀愀猀琀攀 愀昀漀爀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀⸀  吀栀攀渀ഊtake it out, and fill it, and set it in againe... ਀ഊThe Good Huswives Handmaid for Cookerie, 1588 ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㈀㜀 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　㠀 　㜀㨀　㜀㨀㄀㌀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 倀愀猀琀爀礀 儀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊOn Dec 26, 2008, at 10:41 PM, osermart at msu.edu wrote: ਀㰀㰀㰀 䄀昀琀攀爀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 栀愀搀 戀愀欀攀搀 昀漀爀 ㄀　 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀Ⰰ 䤀 琀漀漀欀 椀琀 漀甀琀 琀漀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀  ഊthe beans I'd used to weight it and the the sides of the crust had ਀猀氀甀洀瀀攀搀 漀瘀攀爀 椀渀 猀瀀漀琀猀℀  䤀 眀愀猀 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 甀猀攀 洀礀 氀漀渀最 椀挀椀渀最 猀瀀愀琀甀氀愀 琀漀  ഊpress everything back up against the sides of the pan and it stayed ਀琀栀愀琀 眀愀礀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀愀欀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 瀀愀渀 䤀 甀猀攀搀 眀愀猀 愀 猀琀爀愀椀最栀琀ⴀ猀椀搀攀搀 㠀ⴀ椀渀挀栀 爀漀甀渀搀 挀愀欀攀 瀀愀渀 ⠀琀栀攀  ഊrecipe called for an 8-inch springform pan, which also has straight ਀猀椀搀攀猀⤀⸀  䠀甀猀戀愀渀搀 猀愀礀猀 䤀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 昀椀氀氀攀搀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 戀攀愀渀猀 栀椀最栀 攀渀漀甀最栀  ഊup to hold the sides up as it baked. Is this the case, or is there ਀猀漀洀攀 琀爀椀挀欀 琀漀 猀琀椀挀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 琀漀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀愀渀 猀漀 椀琀  ഊdoesn't slump while baking? >>> ਀ഊPiling the beans high enough to give a little added support to the ਀猀椀搀攀猀 挀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 栀甀爀琀Ⰰ 愀猀 氀漀渀最 愀猀 琀栀攀爀攀✀猀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀椀洀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 栀攀愀琀 琀漀  ഊget to the sides in baking (you can get artificial pie beans made of ਀愀氀甀洀椀渀甀洀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 洀漀爀攀 栀攀愀琀ⴀ挀漀渀搀甀挀琀椀瘀攀⤀⸀ഊ ਀匀漀洀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 搀漀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀礀 最爀攀愀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 戀甀琀 渀漀琀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀  ഊpan for this reason, but I believe that's mostly a cake thing. ਀ഊIn general, though, piling the beans a little higher and being ਀瀀爀攀瀀愀爀攀搀 琀漀 昀椀砀 椀琀 眀栀椀氀攀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 椀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 眀愀爀洀Ⰰ 洀漀椀猀琀 愀渀搀 昀氀攀砀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ  ഊas you did, should the problem arise, is what most people do. ਀ഊAdamantius ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㈀ 䨀愀渀 ㈀　　㤀 ㄀　㨀㔀　㨀㈀㌀ ⴀ　㘀　　 ⠀䌀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䈀攀猀琀 戀甀氀欀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀㼀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊOn Thu, 22 Jan 2009, jimandandi at cox.net wrote: ਀㰀㰀㰀 䤀 愀洀 攀洀戀愀爀爀愀猀猀攀搀 琀漀 愀搀洀椀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀 洀愀搀攀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 昀爀漀洀 猀挀爀愀琀挀栀 昀漀爀 愀 昀攀愀猀琀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 愀洀 洀愀欀椀渀最 挀栀愀爀搀 愀渀搀 爀椀挀漀琀琀愀 瀀椀攀猀 昀漀爀 愀 昀攀愀猀琀 挀漀洀椀渀最 甀瀀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀✀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 搀漀 挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀 挀漀昀昀椀渀ⴀ猀琀礀氀攀 瀀椀攀猀 戀甀琀 䤀✀洀 愀昀爀愀椀搀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 栀愀爀搀 挀爀甀猀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 猀攀攀渀 愀猀 樀甀猀琀 ∀戀愀搀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀∀ 愀爀漀甀渀搀 栀攀爀攀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 瀀爀攀昀攀爀 渀漀琀 琀漀 甀猀攀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最 ⠀礀甀挀欀⤀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 琀漀漀 攀砀瀀攀渀猀椀瘀攀 愀渀搀 氀愀爀搀 洀攀愀渀猀 攀瘀攀渀 昀攀眀攀爀 瘀攀最攀琀愀爀椀愀渀 搀椀猀栀攀猀⸀ 伀椀氀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 攀渀漀甀最栀 猀琀愀戀椀氀椀琀礀 昀漀爀 愀 挀漀昀昀椀渀ⴀ猀琀礀氀攀 瀀椀攀⸀ഊ ਀圀栀愀琀 椀猀 礀漀甀爀 昀愀瘀漀爀椀琀攀 戀甀氀欀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀㼀 䠀愀瘀攀 礀漀甀 洀愀搀攀 栀愀爀搀 瀀愀猀琀爀礀 挀愀猀攀猀 昀漀爀 昀攀愀猀琀猀㼀 䠀漀眀 眀攀爀攀 琀栀攀礀 爀攀挀攀椀瘀攀搀㼀ഊ ਀䴀愀搀栀愀瘀椀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀䤀 甀猀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀爀漀洀 栀攀爀攀 昀漀爀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀㨀 ഊhttp://www.diynetwork.com/diy/lc_desserts/article/0,2041,DIY_14000_2273785,00.html ਀ഊWith the fibro and the tendinitis my hands aren't up to cutting fat into ਀昀氀漀甀爀 愀渀礀洀漀爀攀 猀漀 椀琀 最攀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䬀椀琀挀栀攀渀䄀椀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 昀攀愀猀琀猀Ⰰ 愀 搀漀甀戀氀攀 ഊbatch will make five generous 9" single crusts easily. I've found that ਀礀漀甀 挀愀渀 瀀氀愀礀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀瀀漀爀琀椀漀渀猀 漀昀 昀愀琀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 琀漀漀 洀甀挀栀 琀爀漀甀戀氀攀Ⰰ ഊalthough I've not tried an entirely butter or an entirely shortening crust ਀礀攀琀Ⰰ 渀漀爀 栀愀瘀攀 䤀 琀爀椀攀搀 甀猀椀渀最 氀愀爀搀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀爀琀攀渀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 挀爀甀猀琀 椀猀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 搀甀爀愀戀氀攀Ⰰ 攀愀猀礀 琀漀 爀漀氀氀Ⰰ 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 昀漀爀最椀瘀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀✀猀 ഊtasty. It's also hella easy, which my hands appreciate. ਀ഊMargaret FitzWilliam ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㈀ 䨀愀渀 ㈀　　㤀 ㄀　㨀㈀㔀㨀　㈀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Euriol of Lothian" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䈀攀猀琀 戀甀氀欀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀㼀ഊTo: "'Cooks within the SCA'" ਀ഊ<<< What is your favorite bulk pastry recipe? Have you made hard pastry cases ਀昀漀爀 昀攀愀猀琀猀㼀 䠀漀眀 眀攀爀攀 琀栀攀礀 爀攀挀攀椀瘀攀搀㼀ഊ ਀䴀愀搀栀愀瘀椀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀䠀漀眀 洀愀渀礀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀 愀爀攀 礀漀甀 攀砀瀀攀挀琀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀㼀ഊ ਀䤀✀瘀攀 甀猀攀搀 愀 爀愀琀椀漀 漀昀 ㄀ 挀甀瀀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ ㄀⼀㌀ 挀甀瀀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ ㄀⼀㈀ 琀猀瀀⸀ 猀愀氀琀 愀渀搀 ㌀ⴀ㐀 吀戀猀瀀ഊice cold water with lots of success for making a single pie crust. For a 1 ਀氀戀⸀ 戀漀砀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 䤀 挀愀渀 最攀琀 㘀 瀀椀攀 挀爀甀猀琀猀⸀ 䤀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀愀琀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 椀猀 猀漀氀搀 椀渀ഊbulk at some of the big wholesale stores and sometimes I can find it for ਀␀㈀⼀瀀漀甀渀搀 愀琀 琀栀攀 氀漀挀愀氀 洀愀爀欀攀琀⸀ഊ ਀䔀甀爀椀漀氀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:07:30 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䜀爀攀琀挀栀攀渀 䈀攀挀欀 㰀最爀洀 愀琀 愀渀搀爀攀眀⸀挀洀甀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pie sources ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀匀瀀椀渀愀挀栀 瀀椀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀⸀ 䠀攀爀攀✀猀 愀 漀渀攀 昀爀漀洀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 ⠀栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀ഊinterpreted them yet): ਀ഊFrom the Good Housewife's Handmaid in the Kitchen (1594) ਀ഊTo make a tart of Spinnage. ਀ഊ Take some cast creame, and seeth some spinnage in faire water till it be ਀瘀攀爀椀攀 猀漀昀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 瀀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀琀漀 愀 䌀漀氀氀攀渀搀愀爀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 洀愀礀 猀漀愀欀攀 昀爀漀洀 椀琀㨀ഊthen straine the Spinnage, and cast the creame together, let there be good ਀瀀氀攀渀琀礀 漀昀 匀瀀椀渀渀愀最攀㨀 猀攀琀 椀琀 甀瀀漀渀 愀 挀栀愀昀椀渀最 搀椀猀栀 漀昀 挀漀愀氀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 琀漀 椀琀ഊSugar and some Butter, and let it boyle a while. Then put it in the paste, ਀愀渀搀 戀愀欀攀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 挀愀猀琀攀 戀氀愀渀挀栀 瀀漀眀搀攀爀 漀爀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀 猀攀爀瘀攀 椀琀 椀渀⸀ഊ ਀琀漀漀搀氀攀猀Ⰰ 洀愀爀最愀爀攀琀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:32:06 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lunch suggestions ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀㰀㰀㰀 䤀渀搀攀攀搀 ⴀⴀ 眀椀琀栀 瀀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 ␀㈀ⴀ㌀⨀㔀　Ⰰ 挀漀猀琀 戀攀挀漀洀攀猀 愀渀 椀猀猀甀攀⸀ 䐀漀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 琀漀ഊspend $.25 per head on something that's just going to be used once then ਀琀栀爀漀眀渀 愀眀愀礀 ⠀琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 琀椀渀猀⤀Ⰰ 漀爀 挀愀渀 礀漀甀 甀猀攀 琀栀愀琀 攀砀琀爀愀 ␀㄀㈀ 昀漀爀 愀 昀漀漀搀 椀琀攀洀㼀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀圀栀攀渀 䤀 瀀甀爀挀栀愀猀攀 昀爀漀稀攀渀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀猀 椀渀 戀甀氀欀Ⰰ 䤀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 最攀琀 琀椀渀猀 愀渀搀 猀栀攀氀氀猀 昀漀爀 ഊaround $.15 per serving. However, YMMV depending on what kind of discount ਀最爀漀挀攀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀甀瀀瀀氀椀攀爀猀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀⸀  䘀漀爀 㔀　 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀Ⰰ 䤀✀搀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 ഊjust pull the tins out of the cupboard. (Something about being addicted to ਀戀愀欀椀渀最⸀⤀ഊ ਀㰀㰀㰀 一漀琀攀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 最漀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 攀洀瀀愀渀愀搀愀 瀀爀攀猀猀Ⰰ 礀漀甀✀爀攀 琀爀愀搀椀渀最ഊmoney cost with time cost (it takes more time to make the individual ਀椀琀攀洀猀ⴀⴀ愀渀搀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 琀眀漀 瀀爀攀猀猀攀猀 椀猀 愀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 最漀漀搀 琀栀椀渀最⤀ഊ ਀琀漀漀搀氀攀猀Ⰰ 䴀愀爀最愀爀攀琀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀圀栀椀氀攀 洀愀渀礀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 渀攀愀琀Ⰰ 愀 昀攀眀 氀愀爀最攀 瀀椀攀猀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀 愀 氀漀琀 氀攀猀猀 ഊexertion. I like my 4" and 5" pastry presses. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㌀　 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　㤀 ㄀㠀㨀㐀㌀㨀㐀㤀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 氀甀渀挀栀 猀甀最最攀猀琀椀漀渀猀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" ਀ഊ<<< Just out of curiosity, though... where do you get your frozen pie shells? ਀䌀攀氀椀愀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀䤀 琀攀渀搀 琀漀 戀甀礀 洀椀渀攀 愀琀 愀 氀漀挀愀氀 最爀漀挀攀爀礀 挀栀愀椀渀Ⰰ 䌀爀攀猀琀 䘀漀漀搀猀⸀  吀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 氀愀爀最攀爀 ഊquantity packages and better quality than Wal-Mart and a couple other ਀搀椀猀挀漀甀渀琀 最爀漀挀攀爀椀攀猀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 挀栀攀挀欀攀搀 漀甀琀 匀愀洀✀猀 䌀氀甀戀 愀渀搀 眀攀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 ഊCostco close at hand. At Christmastide, I was in New Mexico and found Marie ਀䌀愀氀氀攀渀搀愀爀 昀爀漀稀攀渀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀猀 漀渀 猀愀氀攀 愀琀 ␀㄀⸀㈀㔀 攀愀挀栀⸀  吀栀攀礀✀爀攀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 焀甀愀氀椀琀礀 ഊfrozen pie shell I've found and are vegetarian friendly, but I'd hesitate to ਀戀甀礀 琀栀攀洀 愀琀 昀甀氀氀 瀀爀椀挀攀 昀漀爀 愀 昀攀愀猀琀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀 ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:56:41 -0700 (PDT) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䄀爀椀愀渀眀攀渀 昀攀爀挀栀 䄀爀琀栀甀爀 㰀挀愀攀爀开洀愀戀 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 36, Issue 6 ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀㰀猀渀椀瀀㸀ഊ<<< lumpia wrappers...As pie pastry? Did it hold well? I would have never thought to use that and while I positively am horrible at making pastry dough, I can sling lumpia wrappers with the best of them. How did you get them to not burst with only one layer of pastry? ਀ഊThat would make little pasties quite easy to bring for our potluck ਀猀椀搀攀戀漀愀爀搀猀⸀ ⠀吀栀攀 猀攀愀猀漀渀 椀猀 甀瀀漀渀 甀猀⸀⤀ 㰀猀渀椀瀀㸀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀䄀猀 氀漀渀最 愀猀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 漀瘀攀爀猀琀甀昀昀攀搀 椀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 眀漀爀欀 樀甀猀琀 昀椀渀攀 ⠀戀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀攀猀 漀昀 眀爀愀瀀瀀攀爀猀 琀漀漀℀ഊ ਀䄀爀椀愀渀眀攀渀 昀攀爀挀栀 䄀爀琀栀甀爀ഊ ਀㰀琀栀攀 攀渀搀㸀ഊ ਀ഊEdited by Mark S. Harris pies-msg 72 of 73 ਀ഊ