paella-msg - 5/13/08 Comments on the possible history of the Spanish rice and seafood dish called paella. NOTE: See also the files: fd-Spain-msg, rice-msg, seafood-msg, Basques-bib, Basques-msg, saffron-msg, saffron-art, Spain-msg, utensils-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 09:31:25 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" Subject: Re: SC - saffron/paella And it came to pass on 6 Aug 00,, that Mark S. Harris wrote: > Any idea/documentation whether this paella is period? I don't know. The word does not appear in the 1726 edition of the Royal Spanish Academy's dictionary. Certainly the modern recipes contain New World ingredients like tomatoes. De Nola has a recipe for an oven-baked rice-and-meat casserole*, so it is conceivable that a rice dish similar to paella was being cooked in period. But I have not seen any mention of one. Lady Brighid ni ChiarainSettmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 22:39:16 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning Subject: SC - "paella" originally means 'pan' << OK, to specifics. Some evidence suggests the word "paella" is derived from Indo-European roots meaning, simply, "rice", but which have come to refer as well to a cooking process common from India and southern Russia through the Middle East and across North Africa -- (...) >> I think the name of the dish is derived from the Catalan/ Valencian word "paella" 'pan'. French "paelle" ('pan, cooking vessel') is used in the Enseignements, in the Menagier and the Viandier. More important: Catalan "paella" is used in the Libre de Sent Sovi (also in the variant form "pella") and in the Catalan version of De Nola in the sense 'pan'. In one of the Spanish De Nola parallel recipes, I looked up, the Spanish word used instead of Catalan "paella" is "sarten" 'pan'. A Catalan-German vocabulary printed in 1502 has an entry "Pella Pfann" (Paella 'pan') in the chapter about kitchen stuff. Thus it seems to me that the name of the Spanish dish paella is derived from the Catalan/ Valencian expression _paella_, _pella_, used to refer to the pan in which the dish is made. Thomas (The next step would be to look up Corominas, the Diccionari Catal‡, Valenci‡, Balear, and others, but I don't have them here.) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 01:22:57 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning Subject: Re: SC - "paella" originally means 'pan' Master Adamantius wrote: << ... but then where does that leave words like pilau and its variants, which could have made it to Spain across North Africa from Persia? >> Is there some textual evidence for the use of the word "pilau" and its variants on its way to Spain? << and then it wouldn't explain why every dish called paella is always based on rice (at least now, and as far as I know) >> The culinary tradition of Valencia explains this fact. They had a particular dish with rice and other stuff prepared in a pan. I would not be surprised if the earliest quotations mentioning this particular preparations would have something similar to _Valencian pan_. << Adamantius (confused now, my confusion not abated by my elation at seeing the O.E.D. and Larousse discredited >> Thanks for explaining, what you meant by "Some evidence suggests...". However, the OED-entry "paella" is very much in spirit with the 'pan'-interpretation: "paella (...). [Cat. paella, f. OFr. paele (mod. poÍle), f. L. patella pan, dish.] A Spanish dish of rice with chicken, seafood, vegetables, etc., cooked and served in a large shallow pan. Also fig. [follow quotations...]" As to Larousse, my "Grand dictionnaire" does not have an entry for "paella". Perhaps you are refering to the Larousse Gastronomique. I never saw this book up to now. What evidence do they quote? The "Petit Robert" traces the French word to a Spanish word meaning 'pan', too. Anyway: all of my (and your) references are of little value, unless they give us some evidence of the use of the word "paella" referring to a certain culinary dish (the _content_ of the pan), rather to a pan, in some text. I will keep my eyes open. Thomas Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:53:01 -0700 From: "E. Rain" Subject: SC - "paella" originally means 'pan' According to 'The Spanish Heritage' by Alicia Rios & Lourdes March, Paellas are named for the pan, (from the Roman Patella as Thomas mentioned) but the dish is possibly a descendant of the rice dishes of muslim andalusia. Originally called 'arroz a la valenciana', the name fairly quickly changed to 'Paella valenciana'. A quick look through Scullys translation of the neapolitan recipe collection reveals no paella like dishes either. Eden Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:50:10 +0200 From: agora at algonet.se Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Basque Food To: Micheal , Cooks within the SCA , sca-cooks-bounces+agora=algonet.se at ansteorra.org My arabic friends tell me Paella is either Basque or Spanish, it's arabic! The word "paella" comes from "Baquiyah, which means leftovers! But in some parts of the Arab world the word is "paella". By my catalan friends the word come from "patella", a frying pan in their dialect. But according to my sources the origin of the dish is Valencia, They were made under a popular festival, the Fallas. And they use huge plates to cook in the street and invite everyone to share. In Valencia, Catalonien, some of the paella is made with noodles and not with rice and it's called "fideoada". Surely the basques make excellent fish dishes but they are done in the whole Mediterranean area. The french Buillabuisse, a thick and reddish fish soup, it's one. Ana >>> On 7 Sep 2005 at 11:22, Micheal wrote: Anyway off to the point of the intent of my message today, Basque food. Anyone know for sure whether Paella is Basque or Spanish? I know its development has fallen to the Spanish cusine. I have made several and they are realy great crowd feeders. But I am trying to find actual documentable period recipees for them. I also realize they may have flown under the umbrella as they were primarily a peasant food for farm hands. Cealian Of Moray <<< Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:17:23 -0500 From: "otsisto" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] RE: Basque Food To: "Cooks within the SCA" Traditional Basque cooking by Jose' Maria Busca Isusi. P.32 In the Basque Country, and principally on our farms, we find ourselves midway between the two methods(which is on page 31), which is not a virtue in this instance. These lines are offered as a piece of advice to the reader unfamiliar with the rice paellas served in our country homes which consist of gummy mixtures of grains of rice and more or less flavorful pieces of meat and fowl. Earlier in the book he gives the impression that the paella is a Spanish dish (from Valencia) that is transformed to Basque taste. It is a casserole of sorts. This book has a tiny bit of history of Spanish Basque foods with itty bitty amounts of references and conclusion to the references. Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:43:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Basque Food To: Cooks within the SCA According to the Oxford Companion to Food, Paella actually refers to the pan it is made in and not the food, although through the ages, it has come to mean the food now. According to the OCF, it is a mixture of Roman tools [the Patella] and Arabic cookery. There are references to it in 13th and 14th century Toledo, but no recipes. It is apparently originally from Islamic Andalucia. And it was intended to be a group dish eaten directly out of the pan. There apparently is mention of such dishes in the "Libro de Sent Sovi". The article in the OCF was written by Lourdes March, who is an authority on Spanish cookery. Huette Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:57:45 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Basque Food To: "Cooks within the SCA" Paella is more likely Catlan than Basque as the word comes into Spanish from Old French by way of Catalonian. As for the modern recipe, no earlier than the 8th Century, in my estimation. Bear Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:13:03 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Basque Food To: "Cooks within the SCA" If you go back far enough, paella derives from the Greek "patane" meaning platter. The Latin "patella" is a diminutive of "patina" and commonly refers to a kneecap shaped frying pan similar to a modern paella pan. The Arabic use of paella is probably from contact with the Europeans. The Romans ate similar mixed seafood dishs, such as Embractum Baianum, so paella is very possibly a fusion of Arabic rice and Roman cooking. Bear Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:11:36 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Basque Food To: "Cooks within the SCA" > And not simply a cognate of pilau? > > Adamantius, shaving with Occam's Razor Not according to the philologists. Considering that pilau is the Persian "pilaw" as derived from the Turkish "pilav," and the time frame of the Turkish expansion, it is possible that pilaf might be a derivation of paella from Andalusia or Byzantium. Given the simplicity of the dish, I'm inclined to think it is a coincidence of parallel development with unrelated but similar names. Bear Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:56:02 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Basque Food To: Cooks within the SCA Proceedings from Oxford Symposium did The Valencian paella - its Origin, Tradition and Universality 1988, 102 by March, Lourdes & Rios, Alicia Also did March, Lourdes Rice, a Staple Food in Spain 1989, 158 Johnnae Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:10:36 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Basque Food To: "Cooks within the SCA" > Bear commented: >> Paella is more likely Catlan than Basque as the word comes into Spanish from >> Old French by way of Catalonian. As for the modern recipe, no earlier than >> the 8th Century, in my estimation. > > Based on what? What makes you think it is even prior to 1600 CE? > > Stefan The modern recipe uses rice. Rice arrives in Spain in the 8th or 9th Centuries, so the dish can not be earlier then 8th Century. I did not state that the recipe was pre-17th Century, merely that it could not be prior to a certain date. Do I think paella predates 1600? Yes. The dish is fairly simple to make. There is a similar dish without rice in Apicius and the nomenclature for similar dishes in the Middle East suggests that they were prepared there prior to the 17th Century. I haven't had time to check various cookbooks or references, but I will when I have time. Bear Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:51:29 -0800 (PST) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Tomatoes To: Cooks within the SCA --- Micheal wrote: > Been doing research actually into Paella checking out recipes There is a wonderful article on paella in the Smithsonian magazine several years ago. But I can't remember which year, or find my copy. You probably can find out in which issue by using the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature. Do you have this book?: March, Lourdes El libro de la paella y de arroces. Madrid : Alianza, 1985. ISBN 8420638617 Also, in the Oxford Companion to Food, they say there is a similar recipe to paella in the Book of Sent Souvi. Huette Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:44:58 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Paella was Tomatoes( was Philip) To: "Cooks within the SCA" In considering paella, we can easily reach a conclusion (which may or may not be wrong) that the dish predates tomatoes in the Mediterranean. Now let me ask, does the dish predate rice in the Mediterranean? Tomatoes arrived in the 16th Century and may not have been used in paella before the 17th Century. Rice became an available crop in the Mediterranean Basin some time between the 8th and 10th Centuries with the Islamic Expansion. Prior to that, rice was a very expensive product used primarily to thicken sauces. Therefore, paella with rice was probably not known before the 8th Century. The history of the dish may be obscure, but rather than run willy-nilly around the Mediterranean trying to compare recipes, concentrate on the Kingdoms of Valencia and Catalonia and the culinary influences that came there. Culinarily, the region was first settled by Greeks. The region became a Roman province with a very strong Roman influence. The Visigoths probably did not add much culinarily to the region and there is little documentation. The Moors brought the rice and their culinary style. The results of these culinary migrations should show up in the Medieval and Renaissance Catlan recipes. Where would I look? I've done very little research of the Greek corpus. Most of my forays have been modern works about the original sources. The Roman corpus is more promising. Paella is a derivation of patella, which suggests a strong Roman tie. A quick look at Apicius shows there are recipes for Patellam Tyrotaricham Ex Quocumque Salso Volueris (Patella with Cheese and Salt Fish) and Patellam Lucretianam (Patella a la Lucretius), which may bear some relation to paella. The Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook and the Sent Sovi will probably be critical to any study of paella. Were I attacking this problem, I would look at the modern variations of paella and the techniques of preparation, then look for similarities and differences of preparation in older dishes while considering the evolution of ingredients. It would be speculative, but hopefully it would be a logical progression with evidence to support the leaps of faith. Bear Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:45:20 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paella was Tomatoes( was Philip) To: "Cooks within the SCA" Paella is possibly due to the confluence of culinary traditions, but I wouldn't say that paella is a Spanish phenomenon. The name has been retained there. You might wish to take a look at Sicilian tummala. Bear > Half expecting to see you sitting in the living room. Because I find > myself nodding yes as I read you note. > But here`s the twist only in Spain does Paella reach the level of > notice that it does. Why ? that is my project. > Da Edited by Mark S. Harris paella-msg Page 8 of 8