nuts-msg - 1/7/08 Nuts, acorns, nut flours in medieval foods. Chestnuts, Almonds, acorns, coconuts, hazelnuts. NOTE: See also the files: almond-milk-msg, food-msg, food2-msg, flour-msg, coconuts-msg, almond-cream-msg, chestnuts-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: polsons at cruzio.com (The Polsons) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Acorns give a payne? Date: Sun, 07 May 1995 18:35:47 -0800 Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond) wrote: > JTN> From: jtn at cse.uconn.EDU (J. Terry Nutter) > > JTN> Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. > > JTN> As to acorns, I have definitely heard of their use in porriges (though > JTN> not bread); I've also heard that they don't taste very good. This > JTN> does not, of course, contradict their use in hardship (indeed, it > JTN> indicates it); but it does suggest that people hungry enough to eat > JTN> acorns are hungry enough to try other unfamiliar grains. > > > BTW, do acorns require as much preparation as tapioca to be edible? > > JTN> No. My impression is that they need to be ground, then soaked, to > JTN> leech out the problem substance (which I have a feeling might have > JTN> been an excess of tannin, but I certainly wouldn't swear to that). > JTN> This came from a description of making acorn porrige in Europe. I > JTN> seem dimly to recall something about American acorns not being as > JTN> problematic, but again certainly wouldn't swear to it. > [...] > JTN> Certainly. My understanding is that they taste pretty vile. Anyone > JTN> on the net ever tried them? > > They were a staple food item of many Indian tribes on the central West > coast before the white invasion. I tasted some as a curious child. I don't > recall them being especially "vile". About as bitter as raw peanuts, or > uncooked split peas. > > Of course they were native oaks. "Pin oaks" I think they're called. > > ... Moreach Okay, here's the deal. I have done reenacting of the CA Indian life arts for some years. Acorns must be leached of their tannic acids before you can eat them. Yes, tannic acid is the same stuff you use to tan hides, or as a dye mordant. Here's how you leach acorns according to the Central CA Indians: Shell the acorns, peel them of their inner skin, and grind the clean nuts into a fine flour (a blender works okay, but leaves some lumps). Make a mound of sand about 12" high, level off the top, and make a 2" deep level basin in the middle. Cross section: /-\_________/-\ / \ __ / \__ Line the basin with cloth, evenly distribute the acorn flour in the basin, and pour hot water over the flour until the basin is full. Use a branch or basket so the water doesn't make a dent in the flour. When the water in the basin is gone, add more water. You'll be flooding the basin 10 times, and the water should go from hot to warm to cold by the last rinse. Remove the flour by patting it and sticking it to your fingers in clumps. I have recipes for authentic CA Indian acorn foods, including soup (or mush if you like it thicker) and bread if anyone's interested. I like the flavor. It reminds me of mild walnuts (and it makes an absolutely WONDERFUL ice cream!) Hope this helps...! 8-) ********************************************************* Willow Polson, Editor polsons at sirius.com Recreating History Magazine "The Resource for Living History Enthusiasts of All Eras" ********************************************************* Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: rayotte at badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert Ayotte) Subject: Re: Acorns give a payne? Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 03:41:11 GMT Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network You have to have the correct species, not all acorns are good to eat. White and live oak are sited by McGee as most often eaten. They have a high carbohydrate percent (68) which is really very high and low fat content. Oaks also invest their fruits with their favorite defense chemicals, Tannins, and as such they need to be ground and steeped in several changes of water. There are undoubtedly other species that were eaten. Horace From: Maryanne.Bartlett at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Maryanne Bartlett) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cooking for 50 Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 11:52:00 -0800 -=> Quoting J. Terry Nutter to All <=- JTN> As to acorns, I have definitely heard of their use in porriges (though JTN> not bread); I've also heard that they don't taste very good. This JTN> does not, of course, contradict their use in hardship (indeed, it JTN> indicates it); but it does suggest that people hungry enough to eat JTN> acorns are hungry enough to try other unfamiliar grains. They can be used in bread. They make a good flat bread, much like corn bread, actually, or can be mixed with finer flours to make yeast-raised loaves. I've also used acorn flour to make something like a cross between a cracker and a tortilla chip. Mixed with barley flour, I've made deep-fried fritters (kinda like hush puppies) of them that are a big hit. I had a reference (mine's buried, too!) to an acorn loaf being prepared as an insult for somebody. I think it implied that he was not used to better, which would imply that some people did eat this. I *was* working from the original language on this one so I may have screwed up the translation, but "acorn" was clear as was the word that implies some kind of bread or loaf. > BTW, do acorns require as much preparation as tapioca to be edible? JTN> No. My impression is that they need to be ground, then soaked, to JTN> leech out the problem substance (which I have a feeling might have JTN> been an excess of tannin, but I certainly wouldn't swear to that). I would. If you don't soak 'em long enough your flour tastes like *really* strong tea. You know, when you leave the bag in for a hour without realizing it and then take a swig? Blech! > And if acorns tasted as good as tapioca, I'm sure they would still be in > use for food, despite the special processing needed. (Tapioca, after all, > is made from manioc root, which is highly toxic.) JTN> Certainly. My understanding is that they taste pretty vile. Anyone JTN> on the net ever tried them? Yes, and prepared properly, they're good. They don't have the *usual* flavour for bread, but neither does cornbread. Actually, if you've ever worked with *any* nut flours (particularly pecan), the process (and taste) bears a great resemblance to the acorn variety. The reason that I mentioned pecans, is that there is a papery membrane around the acorn that *has* to be completely gotten rid of, just like pecans, or they taste like somebody's old shoes, complete with a soapy flavour. If they "taste vile" this is most likely why! ...and, since *somebody* is going to call me on this, I have made my stuff from American acorns, starting from picking 'em up and peeling 'em. BTW, that my bet why they're not more popular. They take forever to peel, worse than chestnuts. Oh, and you can use them in stuffing like chestnuts, too! --Anja-- From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - walnut oil My current favorite book, The Fruits, Herbes, and Vegetables of Italy (1614) has this to say about Walnuts and Walnut Oil: We also have walnust, which are common everywhere. The green ones start to be good about the feast of St Lawrence [10 August], and are highly esteemed and eaten by the gentry, who consider the dried ones to be rather coarse and unrefined. Dried walnuts are used in a garlic sauce called agliata, and this is how you make it: first take the best and whitest walnut kernels, in the quantity you need, and pound them in a really clean stone mortar (not a metal one) in which you have first crushed two or three cloves of garlic. When they are all well mixed, take three slices of stale white bread, well soaked in a good meat broth which is not too fatty, and pound them with the nuts. When everything is well mixed, thin the sauce out with some of the same warm meat broth, until you have a liquid like the pap they give to little babies. Serve it tepid, with a little crushed pepper. Prudent folk eat this sauce with fresh pork as an antidote to its harmful qualities, or with boiled goose, an equally indigestible food. Serious pasta eaters even enjoy agliata with macaroni and lasagne. It is also good with boletus mushrooms, which I shall describe in due course. In Lombardy they make oil from the poorer quality nuts, which they use to light the stables. Poor people and evern worthy artisans use it in lamps about the house or on the table. The peasants in the countryside use nothing else in their lamps. This oil is good for various ailments. it also makes furniture made out of walnut wood--bedstads, tables, benches, and so forth -- shine like a mirror. toodles, margaret From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:06:49 -0500 Subject: Re: SC - butter Hi, Katerine here. Cariadoc quotes me and responds: >>There are at least six recipes for almond butter extant from the 14th and >>15th centuries in England. However, there is no evidence that it was used >>as a spread. It seems to have been served sliced as a dish. > >As I recall, almond butter is not, as one might think from the name, butter >flavored with almonds, but rather a butter like product made (like almond >milk) from almonds. Is that correct? More or less right, except that I'm not all that sure I'd call it butter-like. It's made of almond milk, thickened and coagulated to a more-or-less butter-like consistency. Cheers, - -- Katerine/Terry From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 19:00:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #156 >From: "Mark Harris" <mark_harris at quickmail.sps.mot.com> >Date: 13 Jun 1997 14:40:15 -0500 >Subject: SC - Almond butter and cheese > >On Thursday, June 12, Aoife said: > >>Almonds also add a richness you can't get with wine/water/broth. In >>addition, almonds, as you stated, thicken to an amazing degree, and not just >>when the almonds are sieved out of the almond milk. The milk itself can be >>heated and made into Almond Butter or Almond Cheese. So we have several >>purposes for those almonds besides protein on non-meat days. > >Has anyone here made either this almond butter or almond cheese? How about >a redaction or two? I'm not at all sure about this almond cheese, but it >might be worth a try, after I try making some milk cheese. > >Stefan li Rous >markh at risc.sps.mot.com I think my recipes came from Huswife's Jewel (Dawson? I'm going on sleepy memory, aided by 2 two-year olds). They are self-explanatory, so I'll leave you to look them up, at least until my nephew goes home and I can type in peace. At any rate, Almond Cheese is merely thicker almond butter. The recipe I am thinking of is Almond butter "After the Latest Fashion" or some such wording (newest and best fahsion??), which won me an Ice Dragon Category when combined with the preserved oranges and some flaky pastry from the same book. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about the title of the recipe. Anyhooo, it's a process whereby you pound the almonds, seive them through the water, grind/pound 'em again, etc, until you get quite a concentration of "Almond Milk. This is heated till the bits swell and make a thickened mixture, which is then strained through cheesecloth to make a more solid mass. Viola, smooth creamy almond butter. Drain more water, and it would be cheese. It keeps well, but weeps. Aoife From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:06:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: SC - Almond Butter To Make Almond Butter Take Almondes and blanch them, and beate them in a morter verye small and in the beating put in a little water, and when they be beaten, poure in water into two pots, and put in halfe into one and halfe into another, and put in suger, and stirre them still, and let them boyle a good while, then straine it through a strainer with rose water and so dish it up. **I believe the two pots were meant to be colored differently, then served parti-colored. Also: To make Almond butter after the best and newest fashion. take a pound of Almondes or more, and blanch themin cold water or in warme water as you may have leysure, after the blanching let themlye one houre in cold water, then stamp them inm faire cold water as fine as you can, then put your Almondes in a cloth, and gather your cloth round up in your hands, and press out the iuice as much as you can, if you thinke they be not small enough, beate them again, and so get out milke as long as you can, then set it ove the fire, and when it is ready to seeth, put in a good quantitie of salte, and Rosewater that will turne it, after that is in, let it have one boyling, and then take it from the fire, and cast it abroad upon a linnen cloth, and underneath the Cloth scrape of the Whay so long as it will runne, then put the butter togetherinto the midest of the cloth, binding the cloth together, and let it hang so long as it will drop, then take peeces of Suger, and so much fine pouder of Saffron as you think will colour it, then let both your suger and saffron steep together in the quantitye of Rosewater, and with that season up your butter when you will make it. **I believe the bit about rosewater and saffron should be inserted into the bit about using "Rosewater to Turn it" if the directions are to be listed in correct order. Strictly speaking, since this is not a milk product, it cannot be 'turned' by the addition of a clotting agent. So although the flavor would be different, it is perfectly possible to omit the rosewater and still have a wonderful end result. This additon, however, would give you your butter color, along with the saffron. Scraping the cloth is excellent advice, so that the butter will drain well without 'clogging' the holes in the cloth. My personal experience tells me to call this more of a Cheese rather than a Butter. Have fun. Aoife From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Re: Marzipan texture In a message dated 97-06-23 13:56:43 EDT, you write: << I often wonder just how "smooth" >medieval almond paste was compared to what I can get from the >processor. They had plenty of time and lots of muscle power. >> Surprising smooth, IMO. To test> take 2 or 3 almonds and grind them in a mortar and pestle. With a little elbow grease these may be made to come out extremely smooth and pasty. During the middle ages, there were "professional" people who made the rounds, so to speak, grinding various spices, etc. in large batches. Lord Ras Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:13:20 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Redactions ND Wederstrandt wrote: > Admantius (and also Ras) said concerning their redactions > *Mine contained (more or less) 1/2 cup hazelnuts, 1/2 cup pine nuts, > toasted and crushed,* > > After you toasted the hazelnuts did you rub the skins off? Or did > you leave them on. I happily spent part of the weekend squeezing the > skins off almonds > (Great projectile weapons) making almond milk. I hadn't really > thought much about the skins until now. > > Clare St. John In my case, I cheated, and used hazelnut meal. Finely ground, but not quite flour. I had it in the house and it becomes rancid if you don't use it up in a couple of months. Pignoles were whole, though. The hazelnut meal's color suggests that they were not peeled before grinding. Adamantius Date: 10 Jul 1997 08:59:31 -0700 From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu> Subject: SC - nut skinning (was Redaction > After you toasted the hazelnuts did you rub the skins off? Or did you > leave them on. I happily spent part of the weekend squeezing the skins off I don't know how it would work for hazelnuts, but to de-skin almonds: drop the lot of them into boiling water for just a few seconds, until the skins start to balloon a bit, then quickly scoop them out with a strainer so they don't get water logged. lay them out on a table between two dish towels and knead the bundle for a few minutes. It goes faster this way than trying to pop each little nut out of it's skin [ ;) ]. And it is worth the little bit of time to save the dollar difference between store bought blanched almonds. (Having blanched alot of nuts, being a marzipan junkie) brid hecgwiht Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:17:40 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <Ceridwen at commnections.com> Subject: Re: SC - recipe request > If I may trouble the list, I have a friend looking for a recipe for 'acorn > cakes'? Can't imagine why as acorns are so bitter, Puck, Acorns were a staple food for the indigenous peoples of North America. for centuries. The bitterness in acorns is tannin, which is suloble in water. The old method was to place your acorns in a net in a running stream and let the running water carry away the tannin, then roast them and grind them to meal. Somewhat easier method is to peel your acorns, then boil them in water, changing the water as it becomes dark with tannin, until the water remains clear. Drain them, then roast as you would peanuts in a slow oven until dry and brittle. Grind in a grain mill or coffee grinder, or salt and eat them as is. I can't find a recipe here in the house, but if you can find sources of Native American recipes, they'll be there. Survival cookbooks also will be useful, as will the Euell Gibbons publications. Oh, by the way, White Oak acorns contain the least tannin, thereby being the best for food. They are high in protein and B-vitamins, IIRC. Happy Gathering! Ceridwen Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:59:00 -0500 From: margali <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - recipe request kappler wrote: > If I may trouble the list, I have a friend looking for a recipe for > 'acorn cakes'? Can't imagine why as acorns are so bitter, > > Merry Yule, Puck acorns tannic acid leaches out and leaves a very mild flavored flour, and acorn cakes are easy, parched acorn flour, a dolop of melted lard, salt and water to make it a thick paste, pan fry relatively dry[no extra fat, it has lard in it] sort of like you do scones margali Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:01:26 -0500 From: margali <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - recipe request Sharon L. Harrett wrote: > Puck, > Acorns were a staple food for the indigenous peoples of North > America for centuries. Happy Gathering! > Ceridwen acorn mast was also a pesant staple in europe from prehistoric times as well. margali Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 10:52:04 +0200 (METDST) From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se> Subject: Acorns (was: SC - recipe request) On Wed, 24 Dec 1997, kappler wrote: > If I may trouble the list, I have a friend looking for a recipe for 'acorn > cakes'? Can't imagine why as acorns are so bitter, but then again so are > hops and you know how we Pucks love our beer!:-) Acorns (Quercus ssp). The bitter flavour comes from tannic acid. While tannic acid isn't really toxic in the kind of quantities you are likely to be able eat, but why make life harder than nessesary? Leach the acorns by shelling, and perhaps coarsly split, them and placing in a basket in a flowing stream (whose water you'd be willing to use for cooking/drinking) for perhaps a week. You most likely have such a source handy; the tank of your toilet (unless your tastes are *wierd* remove any sanitary "bluing" stuff first). Simply place the acorns in a netting bag and forget about them for a week or so. Dry, grind and use. You can also roast them and get rid of most of the bitter flavour. Simply place the acorns on the coals of your fire; when the shell is brown and charred they are done (about 15'). Or use an oven at 275 C (525 F). In case anyone is interested, acorns contain 18% water, and 73.2% of the dry weight is carbohydrate (mainly starch). About 5% fat, and 9% protein (by dry weight). (The nutritional data are from Kallman "Vilda vaxter som mat och medicin", 1997) Roasted and eaten like chestnuts (with butter) they are rather nice. /UlfR Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:17:00 EST From: melc2newton at juno.com (Michael P Newton) Subject: Re: SC - recipe request On Wed, 24 Dec 97 02:28:22 PST "kappler" <kappler at edgenet.net> writes: >If I may trouble the list, I have a friend looking for a recipe for >'acorn cakes'? Can't imagine why as acorns are so bitter, >Merry Yule, Puck ok, Puck, 2 acorn recipes: Acorn muffins 1C acorn flour 1C cornmeal 1C flour 3 tsp. baking powder 1 tsp onion or garlic salt 1 egg, slightly beaten 1 1/2 C milk 2 Tbsp. bacon drippings melted preheat oven to 425F, sift together the dry ingredients. Beat egg and milk together, stir in the bacon drippings. Add liquid to dry ingredients and stir just until moistened, don't over mix. Pour into well greased muffin tins and bake 15 min. or until brown and crusty (18 muffins) Acorn griddle bread 1 Tbsp. butter 3 Tbsp. wild leeks (white part) or chives, chopped 1C cornmeal 1C acorn flour 1/2 tsp baking soda 1 tsp salt 1 tsp baking powder 1 Tbsp flour 1C buttermilk 1 egg, well beaten 1 tsp Tabasco, or other hot pepper sauce Melt butter in a small skillet over low heat and cook leeks/chives until wilted but not brown. Sift together dry ingredients. Add buttermilk and leeks/chives to dry ingredients and stir well. Stir eggs and hot sauce into batter. Drop by Tbsp. onto hot greased griddle and bake until bubbles at edges begin to break, turn and bake until the 2nd side is brown. (serves 4) For acorn flour, you need to: Put the decupped, cracked and hulled acorns in a pot cover them with boiling water, and boil from 2-4 hours, changing the water for fresh, already boiling water whenever it becomes dark. They are leached enough when they no longer have bitter taste. They will darken as they cook. Drain and let dry off, then roast them for about an hour in a 300F oven. then you can eat them as nuts or grind them into flour, using either a food processor, or a grain mill. From Billy Joe Tatum's Wild foods field Guide and Cookbook. true, the recipes are OOP, but there you have the ones I have.... Lady Beatrix Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:12:59 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Pine-Kernels/Nuts--candied >Many people have told me you can substitute slivered almonds for pine nuts. >While it is my considered opinion that people like that could probably Corn >syrup for honey you might try that. Otherwise look to the Middle Eastern >Markets unless you live out in the desert U.S. > >Corwyn Frankly, I prefer the flavor of pine nuts to almonds. You could substitute one for the other, especially if you are grinding them to a powder, toasted pine nuts and blanched slivered almonds have approximately the same texture, but unless you overpower the flavor of the nuts, you can taste the difference. Bear Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 18:58:30 EST From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com> Subject: Re: SC - Pine-Kernels/Nuts--candied << Many people have told me you can substitute slivered almonds for pine nuts. >> If you do this be sure to add a juniper berry or 2 for a mock pine nut flavor. I have tried this substitute (e.g. almonds for pine nuts and find that although the texture is similar the flavor is definately lacking. A far better course of action would be to avoid pine nut containig recipes if you can't afford the real McCoy. Ras Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:52:23 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: SC - Sugared Nuts and Cookbooks (was: Tiramisu) Someone asked about sugared nuts; from the Andalusian cookbbok by way of the Miscellany: Sukkariyya, a Sugar Dish from the Dictation of Abu 'Ali al-Bagdadi Andalusian p. A-23 Take a ratl of sugar and put in two qiyas of rosewater and boil it in a ceramic pot until it is on the point of thickening and sticks between the fingers. Then take a third of a ratl of split almonds, fried, not burnt, and pound well and throw the sugar on them and stir it on the fire until thickened. Then spread it out on a dish and sprinkle it with ground sugar. [end of original. ratl = ~lb, 12 qiyas = 1 ratl] 2 c sugar 5 oz = 7/8 c slivered or sliced almonds 5 T rosewater 1-2 T more sugar for sprinkling at the end Toast the almonds in a hot (400) frying pan for 3-5 minutes, stirring continuously. Then crush them with mortar and pestle to something between ground and chopped. Cook sugar and rosewater mixture on medium high until it comes to a boil, reduce to medium and continue cooking to a temperature of 275, about ten minutes. Combine syrup and nuts in a frying pan, cook at medium to medium high, stirring constantly, for another nine minutes, turn out on a plate and sprinkle with sugar. An alternative interpretation of the original recipe is that you cook the syrup and nuts together only long enough to get them well mixed; the binder is then sugar syrup rather than carmelized sugar. Both ways work. Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:34:35 -0400 From: Angie Malone <alm4 at cornell.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Pine nuts >>Pinon are from the pinion pine. They are supposedly more buttery than >>traditional pine nuts. Thanks for the confirmation. >> >Hmm. As far as I am aware, there is only one type of pine nut - the pinion >pine. As with other plants, there are regional variations, but it is the >same species. BTW most pine nuts world wide come from China (ah trivia) > >Rowan Hmmm... I always thought they came from Italy and from Utah. My brother used to live in Utah and there was someone who had a pine nut business and sold them for $2 a pound. They were still in the shells but the shells were very thin, and if you put them in the microwave for a certain amount of time the shells would pop off without hurting the nuts. You had to throw the container you popped them in out--it had what amounted to shell tar on it, but it worked well. Angeline Lady Angeline di Aquila email:alm4 at cornell.edu Deputy Seneschal Dominion of Myrkfaelinn mka. Angie Malone mundanely located in Ithaca, NY Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 12:26:40 +1000 From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au> Subject: Re: SC - Pine nuts At 09:08 PM 02/06/98 EDT, Meghan wrote: >Has anyone tried storing freshly purchased pine nuts bought in quantity in the >freezer? I've had occasion to find them at very good prices, and I'd love to >know if anyone else has found success with this. I'm curious if the natural >oils in the nuts would cause them to freeze badly or get mushy. Yes indeed! They store very well in the freezer and it stops the oil in the nuts going rancid. They defrost beatifully. This is recommended for all nuts and seeds and "high qual" suppliers always store them this way. Rowan Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:21:32 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Pine nuts Here is a brief, incomplete list, of conifers producing edible pine nuts. I haven't located pictures of the seeds to see if the resemble each other. I found it interesting that at least 3 species are considered to be Pinons. Bear Araucaria imbricata (Chile pine) Andes Pinus Cembra (Swiss stone pine) Alps Pinus Pinea fragilis (Tarentine pine) Italy Pinus edulis (Pinon pine) North America Pinus parryana (Pinon pine) North America Pinus monophylla (Pinon pine) North America Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:34:56 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Pine nuts > I've heard that you can use heat to > force the cones open, but I'm not sure exactly how you would do that. > > Noemi I had one open up over a couple years just sitting on my desk. You can probably get them to open a little quicker by wrapping them loosely in foil, and warming them in an oven at low temperature. Bear Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 13:31:54 -0600 From: Yumitori no Kiyoshi <yumitori at montana.com> Subject: Re: SC - Pine nuts > You can probably get them to open a little quicker by wrapping them loosely > in foil, and warming them in an oven at low temperature. > > Bear Lodgepole cones have evolved to open when fire sweeps through an area, so you may need a high setting to accomplish this at home, but start low, as Bear-sama suggests, and increase it if you don't get results. I'd also be concerned about the sap from the cone contaminating the cones, so you might try 'roasting' the cones vertically instead of horizontally. Yumitori Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:00:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Pine nuts Found a "Nut of the Month" club that had Pine Nuts as their February Nut of the Monty. This is what they had to say: European pine nuts, commonly called pignolia nuts, are obtained primarily from the stone pine, Pinus Pinea, native to northern Mediterranean regions. These seeds are 1cm (0.4 in) in length and are rich in oil. Pinon nuts of the southwestern United States and northern Mexico are gathered from several pine species, including the pinyon pine, P. edulis, and the single-leaf pinyon, P monophylla. Similar in quality to pignolia nuts, pinons have a rich, slightly sweet taste. (Then goes on to describe a few others). Site is http://www.europa.com/~grosman/nutclub/feb_nut.htm Of interest to the original thread (i.e. what can I substitute) ius http://www.northcoast.com/~alden/Nuts.html -- gives synonyms, equivalents, and substitutions for nuts used in cooking. Anyhow, browsing gets Chinese pine nuts described as triangular in shape, and less subtle than the European variety, which are described as torpedo shaped. toodles, margaret Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:45:57 -0500 (CDT) From: jeffrey stewart heilveil <heilveil at students.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Pine nuts > Lodgepole cones have evolved to open when fire sweeps through an area, > so you may need a high setting to accomplish this at home, but start > low, as Bear-sama suggests, and increase it if you don't get results. > I'd also be concerned about the sap from the cone contaminating the > cones, so you might try 'roasting' the cones vertically instead of > horizontally. > > Yumitori Don't know about this. If you are really worried about it, don't roast them vertically, do it inverted so that the seeds fall out and don't get hit with resin. If you look at most of the fire dependent species, their cones hang upsode down as it is for this reason. Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:47:28 -0500 (CDT) From: jeffrey stewart heilveil <heilveil at students.uiuc.edu> Subject: RE: SC - Pine nuts > Maybe this is another time when you could use a microwave. I wouldn't do > it on full power, maybe 50 %? > > Just a thought, since you can get the seeds to pop open. > > Angeline AK!!! Umm, don't do it. I have seen some of them pop open, and that would be bad. Also, the resin won't be happy about coming off of anything it splatters on. Bogdan Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:51:26 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - walnuts. heilveil at students.uiuc.edu writes: << is there an old world walnut? If so, has anyone tried making "walnut milk," or seen recipes using walnuts?? >> English walnuts are Old World. Their point of origin was possibly Persia (of course! :-)) << If so, has anyone tried making "walnut milk," or seen recipes using walnuts?? >> IIRC, Apicius has a few recipes which use walnuts. Andakusia and al-Baghdadi have MANY recipes which use walnuts. And I have my own OOP recipe for sauted chicken served with a sauce made from green pepper strips, sliced sweet onion, walnuts and coconut milk. :-) Ras (spelled A'aql) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:38:53 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - walnuts. jeffrey stewart heilveil wrote: > I know that Juglens nigra is native to the US, but is there an oldworld > walnut? If so, has anyone tried making "walnut milk," or seen recipes > using walnuts?? > > Bogdan Juglens nigra, which is the black walnut, is American, while the more common English walnut is, well, English, or rather European. Walnuts are one of the possible candidates for the nuts being used by Le Menagier in his famous "composte" recipe, beginning, "Take five hundred new nuts...". These would be like the green nuts used for pickling. which is essentially what is being done in this stuff, too, producing a sort of cross between chutney and Italian mustard fruits. I think perhaps walnuts are a little too hard to peel of their bran layer (yeah, I know it's not really bran) to make a really nice white "milk". One of the semi-disasters we had to deal with at the last EK Crown Tourney was opening a case of alleged shelled, blanched, and chopped almonds, which I had bought for almond milk, and discovering that they were in fact shelled walnuts. We used most of them anyway, but not for milk. Adamantius Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:52:43 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - walnuts. Walnuts appear in the recipe for Badinjan Muhassa, which is in a collection assembled in the 10th century. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:06:49 -0800From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>Subject: Re: SC - Badinjan MuhassaAt 9:14 AM -0400 7/22/98, LrdRas at aol.com wrote:><< Walnuts appear in the recipe for Badinjan Muhassa, which is in a collection> assembled in the 10th century.>> David/Cariadoc >>>>Where could a person obtain this collection? Is it published? By whom? , etc.>Thanks in advance.The Arabic text was published by Studia Orientalia in Helsinki. There is nopublished translation of the collection. I have a few recipes that CharlesPerry translated, including Badinjan Muhassa.David/Cariadochttp://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:45:52 EDT From: RuddR at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: Walnuts <I know that Juglens nigra is native to the US, but is there an old world walnut? If so, has anyone tried making "walnut milk," or seen recipes using walnuts?? Bogdan> Sauce for stockysshe in an-other maner (Ashmole MS 1439, Two 15th Cent. Cookery Books, p109), has walnuts, garlic, pepper, bread and salt ground together and thinned with fish broth: thick garlic walnut milk. It goes great with more than fish, and very easy in a blender. Rudd Rayfield Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:50:40 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - New pet peeve melc2newton at juno.com writes: << first course board - walnuts . . . in their shells. Without nut crackers.(new peeve) Maybe these manly fighter types can crack walnuts with their bare hands, but I can't. >> Simply place the point of your knife firmly in the large end of the walnut and twist. Voila! The nut seperates easily and cleanly into two halves without any effort. :-) Ras Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:51:41 -0700 (MST) From: grasse at mscd.edu Subject: re: SC - Honey covered nuts Helen, I do not claim expertise, but in "Ein New Kochbuch" (Marx Rumpolt, 1581) he has a section on "von Allerlei Zucker Konfect wie in der Apoteken".... All sorts of sugar confectionery like from the Apothecary. #1 on his list is coated almonds. "If you wish to coat such confectionery with sugar/ so take a clean clay vessel/ that has two handles, hand it at a height with a rope at both handles/ set a fire kettle with glowing coals thereunder/ put the confectionery into the vessel/ and make it fine warm/ pour fine let sugar thereto/ and stir it often therewith/ till the confectionery takes up the sugar / so will it be pretty white and dry. also coat allsort of grain with sugar / and allsorts of spices/ so it will be good and also good tasting." I have been trying various ways of melting the sugar, and coating the nuts, but I have never yet gotten it to stay white, it carmelizes. If any on the list have suggestions I would love to hear them. Oh, and the carmel-colored, candy-coated almonds are VERY yummy, but get sticky with humidity. Gwen-Cat Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:05:53 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - almonds vs, walnuts Gerekr at aol.com wrote: > And while you can produce walnut oil for cooking from them, I don't think > you'd have much luck trying to make "walnut milk" for use in meatless > contexts (fast days, Lent, etc.) > > Chimene I don't recall exactly where I saw this, but I recently saw a recipe (European, and period, I believe) that suggested exactly that. I believe the walnuts were blanched and "peeled" first. I have also seen it done with hazelnuts. Both of these are more or less local products, of course. I'm not sure why almonds were so important, if not for the status imparted by importation. Yes, the Romans did bring almond trees to Britain, but I don't believe any significant almond crop is recorded in Britain in period, and I believe there are records indicating massive importation from the East. Blights and climate shifts might be factors, too. Of course, the Romans also brought grape vines to Britain, and while they did produce some wine there for a while, it doesn't seem to have made enough of a dent in the demand in period to make importing unnecessary. It may be the same with almonds. Adamantius Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:45:58 -0500 From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net> Subject: SC - Re: Almonds and Sundry Nuts and Seeds Regarding almonds, it is my understanding that honey from their blossoms is poisonous does anyone recall period references to this? By the by, if you are in search of a really good reference on the topic of nuts you might try "The Book of Edible Nuts" by Fredric Rosengarten, Jr. 1984, Walker Publishing Co., Inc. ISBN: 0-8027-0769-9, Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 83-40389. The author holds the "Order of the Quetzal" from Guatemala for his agricultural development effort there. He is a fellow of the Linnean Society and an Associate in Economic Botany in the Botanical Museum at Harvard. My copy is an autographed first edition and never leaves the house except for copying but the book should be available on inter-library loan. I'm hoarding it on the hopes someone will offer me my weight in little airline bottles of Fra Angelico for it. Within the chapter titled Twelve Selected Edible Nuts it has great short sections with fairly detailed histories, including archeological evidence and numerous period botanical woodcuts, on such nuts period to western European and Mediterranean basin, as almonds, chestnuts, coconuts (referred to in period as Indian Nuts), pistachio, filberts (hazelnuts), and walnuts. Twenty pages on almonds and 25 pages on walnuts alone. The section chapter titled "Thirty other Edible Nuts" covers such things period as acorns, beechnuts, cola nuts, pine nuts, and sesame seeds. Five pages are devoted to pine nuts and two and a half to sesame seeds. Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:00:21 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Re: Almonds and Sundry Nuts and Seeds phelpsd at gate.net writes: << Regarding almonds, it is my understanding that honey from their blossoms is poisonous does anyone recall period references to this? >> The following was taken from the book you referenced. It seems to indicate that honey bee production and almond groves have a close partnership with one another. The section on the household inventory of the queen of France in 1372 is of particular interest to cooks. ;-) - ---------- Almond Nut Facts The Almond, Prunus dulcis, is a graceful, medium-sized tree of the rose family. It is closely related to and resembles the peach, plum and apricot. Almonds are grouped into two principal types: sweet almonds and bitter almonds. The sweet almond is grown for its edible nuts. Bitter almonds provide oil used as a flavoring and an ingredient in cosmetic skin preparations. The almond is believed to have originated in the temperate, desert parts of western Asia. From there it spread west to the warm, dry regions of the Mediterranean. Almonds are referenced several times in the Bible. Jacob's sons carried almonds and pistachio nuts to Egypt when they went begging for food from their brother Joseph (Genesis 43:11). The Hebrews looked at the almond tree as a symbol of haste because of its sudden blossoming (Numbers 17:8). By 716 A.D., almonds were introduced into Northern Europe. In 812 Charlemagne ordered almonds trees to be planted on the imperial farms. An inventory of household goods of the queen of France in 1372 listed only 20 pounds of sugar, but 500 pounds of almonds. Almonds have symbolized good luck for many centuries in southern Europe. At Greek weddings, candied almonds are given away as tokens of long life and happiness. At Spanish weddings sugar coated "Jordan" almonds are given away. The term "Jordan" probably comes from the French word for garden-jardin. The first almond trees planted in North America were in the Spanish missions between San Diego and Santa Barbara, California. These trees did not take however, due to the moist conditions in the area. During the 1850's the almond tree was introduced to north-central California and has flourished ever since. Ninety-nine percent of the almonds grown in the United States today, are grown along a 400 mile stretch of land between Bakersfield and Red Bluff, California. Almonds are California's most important tree crop, based on acreage, dollar value and total world distribution. Almond trees normally reach a height of twenty to thirty feet. Their wood is harder than that of a peach tree and they generally live longer. California almond trees usually begin to bear at three to four years of age. Flowers of most almond varieties are "genetically self-incompatible". Satisfactory pollination only comes from planting two different varieties near each other. Pollen is then transferred from one tree to another by honey bees. Growers bring bees to their orchards in February when the trees begin to bloom. The honey bee industry has become an essential part of almond production. Today, the United States is by far the largest producer of almonds in the world. Spain is second and Italy a distant third. Other almond producing countries include, Portugal, Iran, Morocco, Turkey, Greece, Algeria and China. The majority of information in this section has been taken from "The Book of Edible Nuts, by Frederic Rosengarten, Jr., copyright-1984. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:45:05 -0400 From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net> Subject: Re: SC - black walnuts and butternuts When it comes to nut questions I always check "The Book of Edible Nuts" by Frederic Rosengarten, Jr. Regarding the walnut the good news is that Juglans regia the English or Persian walnut has been has been around in the old world a very long time, prehistoric in point of fact. They are mentioned in the Song of Solomon 6:11. Juglans is a contraction of Jovis glans, nut of Jupiter. When the nut reached England the name "Gaul nut" may have been contracted to walnut conversely the "wal" may be derived from the Anglo-Saxon word "wealh" meaning foreign or alien. Walnuts are referenced by Shakespeare in "The Taming of the Shrew". As a dye it has a long history as well, the green hulls yield a yellowish dye while a brownish one is obtained from the mature husks. The bad news is that J. nigra the Eastern Black Walnut is native to the forests of the eastern U.S. and Canada. Butternut J. cinerea is also native to the forest of the eastern U.S. and Canada and is the most northern and cold-resistant member of the walnut family. Young butternut twigs, leaves, buds and fruits are covered with a sticky, hairy fuzz which when boiled or distilled produced a light brown dye. Daniel Raoul Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:10:15 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re: Pennsic Tales As for acorns, I suppose it might sort of defeat the purpose, but you can buy pre-leeched acorns, peeled and soaked free of tannins and other objectionable chemicals, at good Korean groceries. I haven't been able to find out what people do with them. Adamantius Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:12:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com> Subject: SC - Acorns I recently looked up acorns in the "Oxford Companion of Food". Unfortunately, the book is at home and I am at work. However, IIRC, it talked about a variety of acorn from the holly oak in Spain that a person could eat without leaching. Also, while OCOF agreed with everyone's opinion that in England during period acorns were only eaten during famines because of the tannin problem, it quoted a passage from Cervantes' "Don Quixote" which mentions that there was a passion in Spain for eating this particular acorn roasted like a nut. Huette Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:56:31 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Acorns And it came to pass on 22 Aug 00,, that Huette von Ahrens wrote: > it quoted a passage from Cervantes' > "Don Quixote" which mentions that there was a passion > in Spain for eating this particular acorn roasted like > a nut. FWIW, the 16th century Spanish health manual by de Villena includes a "chapter" (one paragraph) on acorns. However, it only discusses their health characteristics, and does not give any indication if these were eaten as food, or only medicinally. I don't remember seeing any Spanish recipes for them, but that proves nothing. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:31:38 +0200 From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE> Subject: Re: SC - Acorns This is from the 'Book of nature' of Konrad of Megenberg' (around 1350): "die aicheln kelent mr wan die kesten, aber die frht paid sterkent diu gelider und fuorent wol, iedoch allermaist diu swein, den menschen niht s wol, man mische dann die kesten mit zukker. (...) wer die aicheln prtt und si izt, die sint guot fr die harmwinden und ir pulver ist guot fr den f 0uhten lauf." (Megenberg343) Roughly: 'The acorns have a cooling effect (humorally speaking) that is stronger than that of the chestnut. But both make the body stronger and they nourish well, but especially the pigs, less the men, except you mix the chestnuts with sugar. (...) If you roast the acorns and eat them, this is good for urinary trouble (urge to pass water, micturition), powdered, they are good against diarrhoea'. The medicinal passage is to be found later on in a recipe collection, the 'Konstanzer Rezepte: "Item wer die aichellen brent vnd si ist, die sint gu:ot fr die harnnwinden. vnd ir bulfer ist gu:ot fr fchten laff" (ed. Ehlert 1993, 15.1). In Maister Hanns (1460): "Item ysss grn aicheln fr den Reissennden harenstain" (Roughly: 'Furthermore: eat green/fresh/unripe acorns against the painful urinary calculus'). Among the earlier quotes, that show that acorns have been eaten by men, Johannes Hoops mentions an anglosaxon runic source (in: Waldb 0ume und Kulturpflanzen, 1905, p. 476): ac by(th) on eor(th)an elda bearnum flaesces fodor 'the oak is on earth to the men nourishment of the flesh/the body' But in most passages, the acorn counts as food of inferior value (for pigs, oxen); Konrad von Megenberg again: "als nert auch den menschen wein und prot paz wan wazzer und aicheln: dar umb hofft der mensch d  zuo und lobt got, daz er imz gibt." Roughly: 'Similarly, wine and bred nourish men better than water and acorns. Thus, man longs for them and praises god if god gives it to her/him'. There were medieval German treatises about the medical value of oaks, see: - -- Telle, Joachim: Altdeutsche Eichentraktate aus medizinischen Handschriften. In: Centaurus 13 (1968/69) 37-61. The Lobera d'Avila-treatise, Lady Brighid mentioned, with the acorn passage, was also translated into German in 1531. Later on there were also abbreviated versions, e.g. in 1551. BTW, Villena, Don Henrique de Aragon, who wrote a different treatise, mentions _bellotas_ among the edible food, too (in 1423, if I recall correctly). Thomas Here are the references, in case someone needs them: Ehlert, T.: Die (Koch-)Rezepte der Konstanzer Handschrift A I 1. Edition und Kommentar. In: Khn, I./ Lerchner, G. (Hg.): Von wy?heit wrt der mensch geert. Festschrift fr Manfred Lemmer. Frankfurt a.M. 1993, 39-64. Heyne, M.: Das deutsche Nahrungswesen von den 0ltesten geschichtlichen Zeiten bis zum 16. Jahrhundert. Leipzig 1901 (= Fnf Bcher deutscher Hausaltertmer Band 2). Hoops, J.: 9ber die altenglischen Pflanzennamen. Diss. 1889. Hoops, J.: Waldb 0ume und Kulturpflanzen im germanischen Altertum. Stra?burg 1905. Konrad von Megenberg: Das Buch der Natur. Die erste Naturgeschichte in deutscher Sprache. Mit einem Wrterbuch. Hg. von F. Pfeiffer. Stuttgart 1861. -- Related source: Thomas Cantimpratensis: Liber de natura rerum. Editio princeps secundum codices manuscriptos. Teil 1: Text. Hg von H. Boese. Berlin/ New York 1973. Lobera de Avila, Luis/ Krautwadel, Mich. ( 9bs.): Ein nutzlich regiment der gesundtheyt/ genant das vanquete oder gastmal (...). Augsburg 1531. [Sp 0tere Auflagen 1551, 1556, 1563.] Lobera de Avila, L.: Bancket der Hofe vnd Edelleut. DEs Gesundenn Lebens Regiment. Von eygenschafft/ nutz vnd schedlicheyt alles so zu Menschlicher speise/ tranck/ vnd gebrauch (...) von nten. Frankfurt a.M. (Egenolff) 1551. Lobera de Avila, L.: El Banquete de nobles caballeros. Donostia-San Sebastin (R & B Ediciones) 1996. Maister Hanns, des von Wirtenberg Koch: Guot Ding von allerlay Kochen (1460). Faksimile der Handschrift A.N.V. 12 der UB Basel. Hg. von Tupperware. Transkription, 9bersetzung, Glossar und kulturgeschichtlicher Kommentar von T. Ehlert. Frankfurt a.M. 1996. Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:41:01 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: SC - Acorns Lobera de Avila, _Banquete De Nobles Caballeros_ Originally published in 1530. Modern edition c. 1996. ISBN 84-88947-59-3 CAPITULO XXX DE LAS BELLOTA Y SU COMPLEXION Las bellotas son frias en el primer grado, secas en el segundo. Son dificiles de digerir, constipativas del vientre, provocativas de orina. Tarde descienden del estomago. Causan dolor de cabeza. Las cascaras dellas son estiticas. Aprovechan al fluxo de sangre, maxime a las mujeres. Aprovechan contra el veneno. Polvo de la substancia dellas provoca orina, y es bueno para estrangurria bebido con vino blanco o con aqua de regaliza (Rasis e Isaac.) My rough translation: Chapter XXX OF ACORNS AND THEIR NATURE Acorns are cold in the first degree, dry in the second. They are difficult to digest, constipate the belly, and provoke urine. They are slow to descend from the stomach. They cause headaches. Their shells are astrigent. They are useful for the flux of blood, above all in women. They are useful against poison. The powder of their substance provokes urine, and is good for "estrangurria" [a bladder ailment] when drunk with white wine or with licorice water. (Rasis and Isaac.) note: according to my dictionary of medieval Spanish, "estrangurria" is a condition of the bladder in which urine only comes out drop by drop. The word seems to be related to "strangulation". I do not know if there is an appropriate modern term. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:58:24 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Acorns And it came to pass on 23 Aug 00,, that Robin Carroll-Mann wrote: > Lobera de Avila, _Banquete De Nobles Caballeros_ Originally published in > 1530. Modern edition c. 1996. ISBN 84-88947-59-3 ::sigh:: That should be Lobera de Avila, Luis. And I was wrong in this morning's post when I referred to the author as Villena. Enrique de Villena wrote the 15th century carving manual... which has nothing to say about acorns. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:08:45 +0200 From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE> Subject: Re: SC - Acorns << Enrique de Villena wrote the 15th century carving manual... which has nothing to say about acorns. >> I think, they are mentioned in chapter six (De las cosas, que se acostunbran cortar, segunt las viandas de que vsan comer en estas partes): "De las frutas que se cortan o mondan e parten: melones, idrias, pepinos, alficoes, granadas, figos, uvas, azimbogas, naranjas, limones, peras, mananas, peros, membrillos, duraznos, priscos, nuezes, castanas, avellanas, BELLOTAS, piones, alfztigos e las d'este linaje." Th. Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:47:11 +0200 From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE> Subject: Re: SC - Acorns (Maister Hanns 1460 etc.) > > Maister Hanns, des von Wirtenberg Koch: Guot Ding > > von allerlay Kochen (1460). <snip> > What is "Hg. von Tupperware"? In America, Tupperware is a > manufacturer of plastic food containers. My mind is > boggling about a connection between them and 15th > century German cookbooks. "Hg." is "herausgegeben", published by. Over here, Tupperware has sponsored five facsimile editions of old German cookbooks: - -- Nuernberger Kochbuch 1609 (facsimile only) - -- Maister Hanns 1460 (facsimile, transcription, translation into modern German, comments) - -- Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch 1445 (facsimile, transcription, translation, comments) - -- Muenchner Kochbuchhandschriften aus dem 15. Jahrhundert (facsimile, transcription, translation, comments) - -- There is also the Buch von guter Speise, but for this text the Hayer edition is more important. As far as I know, Tupperware donated about 2000 copies of each to the public libraries of Germany, the rest of the books is sold by Ludwig Auer, Donauwoerth (auer-verlag at t-online.de). Thomas Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:46:52 -0500 From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net> Subject: Re: SC - Coconuts in Period Stefan quoted me: For further information on this and other nuts check out >> "The Book of Edible Nuts" by Fredrick Rosengarten, Jr. I have a signed >> copy, it's a great book. And asked: > Would this be a good book on use >of nuts in Medieval Europe? Or is it more oriented toward modern times? Yes all though it is oriented to modern times it would in in selected cases be a good general secondary source and a possible source of primary quotes. The text is broken down into two main sections, Twelve Selected Edible Nuts and Thirty Other Edible Nuts. The entries in the first section are, as might be expected, more extensive and generally start with roughly 2 to 5 pages of history of which, depending on the nut, usually two thirds to half is period or pre-period European. The first section consists of entries for almonds, brazil nuts, cashew nuts, chestnuts, coconuts, filberts (hazelnuts), macadamia nuts, peanuts, pistachio nuts, sun flower seeds, and Persian walnuts. Each entry ends with a page or two of tasty, if modern, sounding recipes. A couple of caveats, yes I suppose some of these "nuts" are not true nuts, i.e. peanuts, or not period, i.e. macadamia nuts, but even the non-period entries are quite interesting. The entries in the second section for acorns, beechnuts, betel nuts, sesame seeds, and water melon seeds contain some excellent historical information as well. The book's ISBN and LCCCN's are: 0-8027-0769-9 and 83-40389 respectively. The books fly leaf indicates that he also wrote "The Book of Spices" and "Freebooters Must Die!" I presume that the first would be of interest to the list but I have never seen it. The book also contains a seven page glossary, an extensive bibliography, a multi-page "Illustration Acknowledgements" and a recipe index. As numerous period wood cuts are reproduced in the book it is nice that their sources, for the purpose of documentation of a primary source, are revealed. Daniel Raoul Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:08:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net> Subject: Re: SC - (no subject) > I realized I have not > made up the spiced nuts for the on the table course --- does anyone know of > a reference to a spiced nut recipe in period that is not too time consuming > using a mixture of walnuts and almonds There's one in _The Medieval Kitchen_ by Redon, I don't remember who did it, which calls for boiling your honey, adding spices and quickly cooking the nuts in it, then spread them on a sheet with your hands (or a spatula). I found it relatively quick to do. - -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:46:25 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Spiced, Candied Nuts - was, Re: SC - (no subject) Jenne Heise wrote: > > not too time consuming using a mixture of walnuts and almonds > > There's one in _The Medieval Kitchen_ by Redon, I don't remember who did > it, which calls for boiling your honey, adding spices and quickly cooking > the nuts in it, then spread them on a sheet with your hands (or a > spatula). I found it relatively quick to do. That would be nucato, essentially an ancestor of praline? I think it comes from one of the more obscure Italian MS sources. Adamantius Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:49:40 -0800 (PST) From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: SC - almond milk source - Almond Breeze - --- lilinah at earthlink.net wrote: > However now that i've been to Morocco, i have to say that giant > American almonds don't have half the flavor of the tiny Moroccan > almonds - and i am very careful to buy the freshest almonds i can, > and never the sad stale almonds one finds in little sacks at the > supermarket. > > Mmmmm, Moroccan almond milk... > > Anahita al-shazhiyya al-Andalusiyya Have you ever bought fresh almonds from Arvin, California? I have. I have also been to Morocco. When you buy almonds picked fresh from the grower, even the giant almonds of California have lots of flavor. Also, don't ever store any nuts on a shelf or anywhere that is not refrigerated. The oils in the nuts go rancid. When I was a child, I used to hate nuts of any kind because they all tasted bad. But that was because my mother always used to store nuts in jars on her pantry shelf and used them in cooking even when they smelled stale. [Shudder] Now all nuts in my house go directly into the freezer after purchase. No more rancid nuts. Huette Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:22:34 -0600 From: "Robbin Long" <rlong at srrc.ars.usda.gov> Subject: Freezing nuts, was Re: SC - Re: losenges fryes/potageof beans boiled >It helps if you freeze anything like flour/dried legumes, box mixes etc. >to 0 degrees fahrenheit for 3 days, it kills the eggs that are extant >that survived the milling process. I have also gotten them in bags of >chopped nuts [IIRC walnuts] >margali As an addendum: freezing walnuts will also help prevent the accumulation of mycotoxic fungus. It is not common, but walnuts, even commercially grown, are subject to fungal infection, and storing them frozen will help keep it from increasing if you happen to get a bad batch. That this still happens was something I discovered quite graphically when I came down with mycotoxicosis not once, but twice. I made Thanksgiving stuffing with walnuts and came down with some very strange tremorgenic symptoms that sent me to the emergency room. They thought I was having a panic attack (which I have NEVER had), and I didn't make the connection until I used the same batch to make a walnut-ricotta pasta sauce (very tasty) and banana bread several weeks later, and got the same symptoms times two (my lord did, too, but he is twice my weight, he didn't eat as much, and he got it far milder). It was pretty frightening. Just goes to show the medical professionals don't know everything... Broinnfhionn Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:47:26 -0700From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>Subject: Re: SC - Almond milk left oversAt 09:08 -0700 2001-04-08, Cathy Harding wrote:> In the aftermath of the Baronial Banquet (Madrone, An Tir), I came home with> a lot of the ground almonds which are left over from making Almond milk. I> seeem to remember that there are some recipes for things which can be made> from them, like almond cheese. However, I can't find any of them now.Viandier has a ton of possibilities which start with whole almondsand include the resulting crushed almonds in the dish -- there would of course be some difference if using almond leftovers, since the almond milk has already been removed. Adding a bit of cow's milk would, I think, restore the balance:Almond cumin dishCassia soupWhite capon soupGerman meat, rabbit and chicken soupYellow SaucePerch mashCapon white dish for an invalidTo make flans or tarts in LentLaces of white capon meatTailleGarlic Jance SauceGinger Jance SauceThere are some further recipes in Viandier where there is ambiguity about whether the ground almonds would remain in the dish, or wereused solely to provide their milk.Can one make good marzipan with almond leftovers?Thorvald Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:46:16 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: SC - Cordials On 11 Apr 01,, R. Del Boccio wrote: > Someone mentioned walnuts - I just ran across references to > it in something I'm working on. > > Serian Walnuts are mentioned in Catalan, Spanish, and Italian cookbooks at least as far back as the 14th century. Possibly earlier -- I don't know much about Arabic cuisine. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:46:51 -0700 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Cordials >On 11 Apr 01,, R. Del Boccio wrote: >> Someone mentioned walnuts - I just ran across references to >> it in something I'm working on. >> >> Serian > >Walnuts are mentioned in Catalan, Spanish, and Italian cookbooks >at least as far back as the 14th century. Possibly earlier -- I don't >know much about Arabic cuisine. Much earlier. They are an ingredient in a c. 10th c. recipe for Badinjan Muhassa - -- David/Cariadoc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:16:42 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Green Almonds - challenge Bonne of Traquair wrote: > last week, I bought a pound of green almonds at the Persian grocery. > Anyone know what you do with green almonds? What they are is the unripe > almond fruit, the seed to be is a clear jelly in the middle. Yup, remember those. They can be eaten raw in salads, also when lightly blanched, pickled like green walnuts, and they make a very respectable compost like the ones found in the Forme of Cury and in Le Menagier (okay, the Menagier version has the steeped immature nuts, but you can parboil them like the other ingredients in the FoC version, and proceed with that version to get a final product that is pretty similar to the Menagier version). (If that makes any sense. You're not the only one in need of some tea.) Adamantius Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08