garum-msg - 12/1/99

A fermented fish sauce used in ancient Rome. Also includes comments on a 
similar fish sauce called liquamen.

NOTE: See also the files: sauces-msg, fish-msg, murri-msg, spices-msg,
pickled-food-msg, vinegar-msg, verjuice-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that
I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some
messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called StefanÕs Florilegium.
These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with
seperate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes
extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were
removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I
make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the
individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these
messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this
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credit to the orignator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  Lord Stefan li Rous
    RSVE60@email.sps.mot.com              stefan@texas.net
************************************************************************

From: "Nick Sasso (fra niccolo)" <grizly@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:12:41 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Definition

> For those of us who are .... vocabularily challenged<g>, what is
> "liquamen"?
>
> Caitlin

   "liquamen":  another name for garum.  A fermented fish sauce used in
ancient Rome.  Made by layering in a well sealed barrel, fatty fish such
as mackerel or sardine, strong herbs, and about
1 1/2" of salt.  Layer this until the barrel is filled and seal.  Leave
in the sun for about seven days.  After this fermentation, stir daily
for 2-3 weeks until it has turned to liquid.

You'll find a detailed description of various methods and varieties on
pages 27-29 in _A Taste of Ancient Rome_ by Giacosa.  I have used
oriental fish sauce, but it lacks the punch described of the original.
Maybe adding the strong herbs to steep for a while in the fish sauce
would help.  Ant other suggestions would be appreciated as this is a
common Roman condiment in cooking.

Giacosa also offers two suggested preparations for garum on p. 29 for
those who wish to avoid the seven day fermentation :o)
- --
In Humble Service to God and Crown;

fra nicol¢ difrancesco
(mka nick sasso)


From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:55:47 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Definition

Nick Sasso (fra niccolo) wrote:

>    "liquamen":  another name for garum.  A fermented fish sauce used in
> ancient Rome.  Made by layering in a well sealed barrel, fatty fish such
> as mackerel or sardine, strong herbs, and about
> 1 1/2" of salt.  Layer this until the barrel is filled and seal.  Leave
> in the sun for about seven days.  After this fermentation, stir daily
> for 2-3 weeks until it has turned to liquid.

Bear in mind that there's  more than one recipe available for liquamen.
Some of them omit the "strong herbs" (some recipes specify oregano, but
others specify only fish and salt). Some also call for whole fish, and
others call for fish entrails.
 
> You'll find a detailed description of various methods and varieties on
> pages 27-29 in _A Taste of Ancient Rome_ by Giacosa.  I have used
> oriental fish sauce, but it lacks the punch described of the original.

That would be hard to say for sure until you had experienced the punch
of the original. It would also depend on _what_ oriental fish sauce you
are referring to. There are dozens, some made from the whole fish or
fish entrails as mentioned above, and some made from cleaned fish. Some
are made from shrimp. Asia is a big place, and every hundred miles or so
you come to a place where they think the people you just saw a hundred
miles back are jerks who couldn't make fish sauce if their lives
depended on it. :  ) Variations on a central theme are therefore common.

> Maybe adding the strong herbs to steep for a while in the fish sauce
> would help.  Ant other suggestions would be appreciated as this is a
> common Roman condiment in cooking.

That's just about the only solution I can think of, unless you make the
stuff yourself. I'm not so sure about how much kick actual Roman
liquamen might or might not have had, actually. There are recipes that
call for adding it to wine as a beverage, IIRC. It might be a question
of total effect, where you use a lot to get a powerful effect, and less
for a more subtle approach.

Adamantius


From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 16:06:16 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Definition

Peters, Rise J. wrote:
> For those of us who are .... vocabularily challenged<g>, what is "liquamen"?
> 
> Caitlin

I seem to be getting messages out of sequence. As previously stated,
liquamen, at least in ancient Roman usage, is a salty, tangy condiment
made from fish. It is described as being a semi-clear liquid after the
solids settle out. The semisolid dregs are called allec or hallec and
are also used as a seasoning.

However, watch out: Platina calls for liquamen in his recipes, and he is
referring to rendered, liquid fat, such as melted lard or suet.

Adamantius


From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 19:03:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Liquamen -- was: SC - Definition

Nick Sasso (fra niccolo) wrote:

> It seems that the brine keeps liquimen sanitary and promotes the
> liquification, so it doesn't seem all that bad to me.  The salt also
> probably effects the pH to activate some of the enzymes and bacteria
> needed as well.  Strange to say the least.

As I understand the process (there was a big to-do on liquamen, garum,
nuoc mam, nampla, etc. in rec.food.historic a couple of weeks ago), the
salt is there to prevent the growth and reproduction of pathogenic
bacteria. This it does.

It does allow a certain proliferation of lactobaccili, even with the
high salinity. They eat whatever it is they eat and produce, in return,
lactic acid, in which the fish are effectively pickled, just like kosher
dills or sauerkraut.

Enzymes in the fish (especially if there are entrails involved) break
the fish down to a paste/liquid.

Yum! ;  )

Adamantius


From: Uduido@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:56:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Liquamen

In a message dated 97-07-08 16:53:56 EDT, you write:
<< what is "liquamen"? >>

I think it was a fish sauce used by the Romans. I use an oriental fish sauce
as a sub or if the dish is more subtle I use oyster sauce.

Lord Ras


From: "Melissa Martines" <melissa.martines@mail.corpfamily.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 08:35:17 CST
Subject: SC - Garum

     I made some garum for the Roman Feast I did at our local May Tourney.
     I used mackerel (3.5 pounds cut into chunks), a lot of salt (6 pounds) 
     oregano, coriander and cumin.
     
     I let it steep two weeks in the back of my car (I used a plastic beer 
     fermenter for this) which sits in the sun most days (I went for two 
     weeks since the Tennessee sunshine in March is probably not as 
     powerful as the Italian).
     
     Then, I began stirring it.  It does make a nice, clear, oily liquid.  
     And, thanks probably to the salt, it never smelled (for which my lord 
     was very grateful when I moved it into the house).
     
     The overwhelming taste of the stuff was salt.  There was an undertaste 
     of fish, and the herbs left a pleasant aftertaste.
     
     Everyone who tried it liked it -- the Baroness particularly liked it 
     on the hardboiled egges in the salad :).
     
     In my research, I concluded that when recipes call for it, they are 
     actually after the salt taste.  The fish oil (very rich in nutrients) 
     is an added benefit without a lot of added taste.
     
     Morgan


From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy@abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:24:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Liquamen -- was: SC - Definition

Adamantius wrote:
  As I understand the process (there was a big to-do on liquamen, garum,
  nuoc mam, nampla, etc. in rec.food.historic a couple of weeks ago), the
  salt is there to prevent the growth and reproduction of pathogenic
  bacteria. This it does.

Indeed.  While some of the exchange got stupidly personal and silly, it is
well worth checking with http://www.dejanews.com for the thread, looking
especially for postings from Andrew Smith.  It was, shall we say,
definitive.  Check in the May/June timeframe.

        Tibor


Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:01:13 EST
From: LrdRas <LrdRas@aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Gulf Wars & a question

mfgunter@fnc.fujitsu.com writes:
<< I've been reading the Roman recipe website and wondered if liquamen could
 be substituted with nuoc muam sauce?  I know we've discussed stuff like this
 before.

Gunthar >>

I always sub Thai fish sauce or a similar Far Eastern fish sauce for
"liquamen". I do not know how close actual manufacturing methods are to the
Roman stuff but, IMHO, such a substitution is far more justified than water or
broth. :-)

Ras


Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:10:43 -0700
From: Rob Baldassano <odla@best.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Garum & Verjuice production sources?

>Can anyone direct me to recipe/directions for Verjuice and garum? 
>niccolo difrancesco

As for the Garum, there are recipes documented in Rosenbaum & Flowers
translation of Apicius "The Roman Cookery Book", they include the
fermented version that was made in mass production and a quick version
you can make on your stove top in one afternoon. I no longer have a
copy of the book, it was lent to me a couple of years ago when I did a
course of Roman food at a feast,  and I have since returned it to its owner.

Euriol of Lothian


[Submitted by: Marilyn Traber <margali@99main.com>]
Subject: [Apicius] garum/liquamen
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:41:08 PST
From: "Susan Hryckiewicz" <susanh99@hotmail.com>
To: Apicius@onelist.com

This gets down to language semantics, but there is a subtle difference
in concept.  Is ÒgarumÓ a translation of ÒliquamenÓ or a period
equivalent term?

Is it a term in current usage anywhere in the world?

If it is a modern translation, WHY?  Where did the word come from, and
how? Any clues?

Susan Hryckiewicz
Selivia de l'Estoile, Lochac (Australia)


Subject: [Apicius] garum
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:36:17 GMT
From: Carol Dery <sr045@lamp.ac.uk>
To: Apicius@onelist.com

The ancient Greeks used a fish sauce called garos (not garon - this is the
accusative case which is why it is not in the dictionary) from about the
fifth century BC, and it is this that the Romans took over. Garum (Lat.)
derives from garos (Gk. actually a type of fish). The Romans used the
various types of fish sauce very much more than the Greeks ever did however,
which is why not many people know about the Greek version.

As regards the various terminology for Roman fish sauces, it goes like this:
Garum is the name for the best quality fish sauce (garum sociorum is the
very best of all - It was made in Spain from mackerel), but it is also used
generically in the early empire.

Liquamen was originally an inferior product to garum, but by the time of the
late Empire (when Apicius' cookbook was being compiled), liquamen had
largely replaced garum as a generic term for fish sauce.

There is also something called muria, which is the pickle that salt fish was
transported in. It could also be used to pickle other things as well.

Then there is allec, which is a fish paste. The other three are all liquids.

Carol


Subject: [Apicius] Re: garum/liquamen
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 05:22:11 -0600
From: Bill Thayer <petworth@suba.com>
To: Apicius@onelist.com

Pliny (XXXI.xliii.93, direct local link to the passage online at
http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/Pliny_the_
Elder/31*.html#93>

is very mildly helpful, merely stating that _garum_ comes from some fish
the Greeks call _garon_, although in his time the stuff was no longer
produced from that fish.

If this is true, it's unlikely to be _karon_ since _k_ and _g_ both existed
as separate sounds and letters in both Greek and Latin. Also, garum doesn't
involve shrimp, and Pliny is rather careful about differentiating between
fish and other sea life: he's writing a natural history encyclopedia, after
all.
   Varro unfortunately only refers to the word _garum_ (ix.66) to tell you
that it has no plural because it's something sold by weight, i.e. not
enumerable.

BT


Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:48:04 -0800
From: Lilinah biti-Anat <lilinah@grin.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts

Aislinn C. C. wrote:
>I have no idea if it is the same plant used by the Romans. Tannahill
>gives an intriguing process for making liquamen in her book. Would
>modern oyster sauce make a good substitute? Adamantius?

I've never tasted actual Roman style liquamen, but have had various
fish sauces from around 4 different Southeast Asian countries.

I recommend Thai fish sauce (nam pla). Vietnamese fish sauce is a
decent second. I REALLY didn't like the taste of Philippino fish
sauce, nor of Chinese fish sauce. Personal taste.

But i should think, knowing how they and liquamen are made, at least
from reading books, that any of them would be closer to liquamen than
oyster sauce, since it isn't made from fish, and has all sorts of
other additives, whereas the Southeast Asian fish sauces are just
little fish and salt, like liquamen.

Anahita Gauri bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi


Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 12:07:24 -0800
From: Lilinah biti-Anat <lilinah@grin.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts

Iu'liana
>aislinncc@mailcity.com writes:
> >Would modern oyster sauce make a good substitute? Adamantius?
>
>I was wondering if Nuoc Nam Nhi would work.

Yeah. That would be fine, as far as i can tell. That's Vietnamese
fish sauce. Thai fish sauce is similar. Both much closer to liquamen
than Chinese oyster sauce (has sugar and other stuff - i don't have a
bottle on hand to list all other additives)

Anahita


Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:50:05 EST
From: ChannonM@aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts

Garum or liquamen to me is a much more substantial sauce than the fish sauces
so far mentioned, unless one of them is more substantial than the nuoc mam
sauce I have seen and tasted. I prefer to use anchovy paste, which is simply
anchovies and salt. For the various garum/liquamen sauces ie
oxygarum,hydrogarum, oenogarum- I simply combine it with the appropriate
liquid vinegar, water or wine respectively.   There is a gentleman he is an
Italian chef, operating a restaurant in Rome I believe) who regularly posts
on the Apicius list and during a thread on this topic put it very well. I
have discussed using his post with him and here it is, in its entirety,
...... go for it Stefan, this would be an excellent contribution to the
Florilegium! (IMO)- Hauviette

Marco Bernini writes--I am probably going to ignite some controversy here but
I do not agree that Nuoc mam and garum are the same thing at all.Nuoc mam is 
basically a fish based soy sauce originally made by fermenting anchovies in 
brine.  Today it is often made with concentrated extracts that are then diluted, 
the resulting sauce is very watery and quite like fishy soy sauce.  Most eastern 
cuisines have a sauce of this sort; the chinese have fish soy, the thaiÕs also 
have a variant as do the Malays and so on.

Garum or liquamen has many recipes according to who you read, it is
alternately made from whole fish, fish livers or fish guts and blood
depending on whoÕs description you read.  This is then layered alternately
with lots of salt and herbs of various sorts again depending on whoÕs recipe you 
use.  The container is then sealed and left to macerate NOT ROT as is commonly 
thought, it is impossible for the contents to rot due to the large amount of 
salt present.

What happens is that the fish liquefy over time as the coarse salt melts and
a thick lumpy brine is formed.  This is then strained either finely or
coarsely depending on the use it is intended for

My reasoning is based on the following:
I am Roman, I was born in the city am 34 years old and live there today
though I have lived much of my life in the UK.  I am a restaurateur and chef
and have an extensive knowledge of Italian cuisine as well as being trained
in classical french, modern British, Chinese, Japanese and Thai.

Italian regional cuisine is very ancient in its origins, many dishes that are
eaten today in Rome on the tables of the ordinary citizens and in the Roman
campagna (not the restaurants which barring a few exceptions are bastardized
and atypical) bear a great resemblance to those eaten by the ordinary
citizens of Rome two millennia ago.  Certainly new ingredients have been
added (most notably the tomato and chilli pepper) as they have been discovered
over the centuries but the basic style of the food remains the same.  The crux 
of the matter is this; if garum was indeed as essential an ingredient in Roman
cuisine as we are told by ancient texts then it is very likely that it would 
remain in the Roman diet in some prominent form today (much as soy sauce and 
Nuoc mam being very ancient still feature prominently in the far east).  The 
fact that Italy has no Nuoc mam type sauce today nor has it had in living memory 
leads me to conclude that garum cannot have been a sauce like nuoc mam or it 
would remain in use today; not just in Italy but in Spain, Greece and North
Africa, it is simply impossible for such an important ingredient to have 
disappeared from all of these countries without trace.

What does remain in all of these countries is an enormous production of
anchovies and other Ôpesci azzurriÕ (sardines, mackerel etc.).  These are
produced in canned form via salting and then packing with olive oil and
sometimes herbs and also as pureed form in tubes for simplified use in
cooking.  Anchovies are used extensively in mediterranean cuisine to impart
salty ÔseaÕ flavour to food, they are sometimes used in stews and soups,
often used in saut*ed clams and other seafood, they are used in salad
dressings and chopped in salads and on top of pizzas, wrapped around olives
and capers,  put on hard boiled eggs and so on and so on.  As you can see
they are very important today.  It is my opinion that garum is the ancestor
of the salted anchovy whether whole, filleted, pureed or in herbs; at some
point production changed to a less liquefied product, possibly due to reduced 
production period, faster transport or maybe just a change in tastes.

Anyway, thatÕs my opinion for what its worth, accept it or not its up to
you.But I will tell you one thing, try sprinkling nuoc mam on a endive salad and
then making one using the recipe I suggest below.  Bet you never use the nuoc
mam again. (remember when using it as a dressing to add a olive oil and wine
vinegar plus pepper to taste.)

Below is a recipe from Gargilius Martialis 3rd C AD as published in the
excellent book ÒA Cena da LuculloÓ by Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa (published in
English as ÒA Taste of Ancient RomeÓ) plus a quick and clean variation that I
have developed myself from a modern day Roman salad dressing.

Garum (Gargilius Martialis 3C AD)
Use fresh fatty fish e.g.. anchovies, sardines or mackerel.
Dried aromatic herbs such as: dill, coriander, fennel, celery seed, mint,
oregano and rosemary.
Coarse sea salt
Clean and wash the fish removing heads fins and guts if desired. (the guts
impart a bitter flavour) Taking a large preserving or pickling jar (the wider
the better) place a generous layer of herbs on the the bottom of the jar then
place a  layer of fish on the top (cutting the fish into sections if it is
large) placing them fairly tightly packed.
Over this add a layer of coarse sea salt (must be sea salt) about * inch
thick!  Repeat these three layers till you have filled the jar to the top.
Let the container rest in the sun for seven days (this is the traditional way).
Then mix the sauce daily for a further twenty days.  After that time it
becomes a liquid and can be filtered if necessary.
Here is a quickish clean garum of my own:

6 tubes of anchovy paste, (or 12 small tins of anchovy fillets drained and
liquidized) * teaspoon of each of the above herbs but fresh if possible.
 1 clove of Garlic (crush it with the side of a knife)
Pepper
Good olive oil
Wine vinegar
Finely chop the herbs and place in a bowl. Add the anchovy paste, add the
crushed garlic clove, ground black pepper (the quantity will dictate the
ÔhotnessÕ of the garum) a little vinegar and the olive oil, mix well (in
ablender if necessary)
The resulting sauce should pour easily, if not add more oil or white wine if
you like. Store in the fridge for a day before use and always shake well before
adding to recipes.  Use sparingly as it is salty and often replaces salt in
recipes.  Makes an excellent dressing for lettuce and rocket salads, the
traditional Roman hors dÕoeuvre and is used in Rome today to dress
ÒpuntarelleÓ a salad leaf from the dandelion family that has been eaten in
and around Romefor more than 2,000 years.Enjoy!

P.S.  If you should keel over with food poisoning after trying the ancient
recipe I deny any responsibility!   :)
Marco Berni


Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:03:03 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts

Lilinah biti-Anat wrote:
> Aislinn C. C. wrote:
> >I have no idea if it is the same plant used by the Romans. Tannahill
> >gives an intriguing process for making liquamen in her book. Would
> >modern oyster sauce make a good substitute? Adamantius?
>
> I've never tasted actual Roman style liquamen, but have had various
> fish sauces from around 4 different Southeast Asian countries.

Definitely not modern oyster sauce. As it happens, I just happened to
sample (one of the few things I was able to sample) actual
garum/liquamen from Pliny's Historia Naturalis, and it was a light amber
color, a bit like filtered apple juice, but with a more substantial
mouth feel/body, and a definite anchovy taste. Yum! I ate mackerel guts!
And liked it! The only harshness to it was in the saltiness, which is
pretty much inevitable. If this was done right, it would seem to suggest
that the fish is preserved from rotting by the salt, and broken down
entirely by enzymatic action, unlike the processes that produce some of
the Southeast Asian fish sauces, at least some of which involve lactic
fermentation, as do things like sauerkraut.

> I recommend Thai fish sauce (nam pla). Vietnamese fish sauce is a
> decent second. I REALLY didn't like the taste of Philippino fish
> sauce, nor of Chinese fish sauce. Personal taste.

There are decent Philipino sauces, you need to watch for the ones that
contain anchovies and salt, and avoid ones with vinegar, these are
basically sauces that are artificially flavored to resemble the real
thing.

> But i should think, knowing how they and liquamen are made, at least
> from reading books, that any of them would be closer to liquamen than
> oyster sauce, since it isn't made from fish, and has all sorts of
> other additives, whereas the Southeast Asian fish sauces are just
> little fish and salt, like liquamen.

Yep. Oyster sauce is oyster essence (reduced stock made from dried
oysters), sugar, cornstarch, sometimes some caramel coloring, sometimes
soy sauce. The best oyster sauces are the ones for which oysters or
oyster essence are the first ingredient listed.

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:44:14 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts

ChannonM@aol.com wrote:
> What happens is that the fish liquefy over time as the coarse salt melts and
> a thick lumpy brine is formed.  This is then strained either finely or
> coarsely depending on the use it is intended for

According to Pliny (admittedly only one source) clear brine (hence the
term liquamen) is siphoned off from the solids, which are used as an
entirely different product called halec.

> Italian regional cuisine is very ancient in its origins, many dishes that are
> eaten today in Rome on the tables of the ordinary citizens and in the Roman
> campagna (not the restaurants which barring a few exceptions are bastardized
> and atypical) bear a great resemblance to those eaten by the ordinary
> citizens of Rome two millennia ago.  Certainly new ingredients have been
> added (mostnotably the tomato and chilli pepper) as they have been discovered
> over the
> centuries but the basic style of the food remains the same.  The crux of the
> matter is this; if garum was indeed as essential an ingredient in Roman
> cuisine
> as we are told by ancient texts then it is very likely that it would remain
> in the Roman diet in some prominent form today (much as soy sauce and Nuoc mam
> being very ancient still feature prominently in the far east).  The fact that
> Italy has no Nuoc mam type sauce today nor has it had in living memory leads 
> me to conclude that garum cannot have been a sauce like nuoc mam or it would
> remain in use today; not just in Italy but in Spain, Greece and North
> Africa,it is simply impossible for such an important ingredient to have
> disappeared from all of these countries without trace.

Actually, it hasn't. One very halec-like paste that is very common in
the south of France is pissalat. Another consideration is that as Rome
is not really a seaport, it's unlikely a center of manufacture for garum
would develop there. On the Mediterranean coastlines of what are now
Spain, France, Italy and Greece, you'll find what seem to be remains of
garum factories.

I wonder if there was some kind of climactic or other shift in the
migrations of some of the fish traditionally used in the manufacture of
liquamen, which might explain why the fish so prepared seemed to be
growing smaller over time, leading perhaps to the modern salted anchovy.
Which, by the way, is not necessarily a moist product packed in oil, you
can still find them in barrels in France, whole, dry, and packed in
salt. Many recipes written before the 1960s have complete instructions
on how to desalt and fillet anchovies. Other possibilities might include
a dearth of garum-suitable fish, due to overfishing, and then there was
this thing called the Fall of The Roman Empire. Modern citizens of Rome
also don't speak Latin, wear togas, or demand that Carthage be
destroyed. That doesn't mean they never did these things. This is simply
an area where there's been sufficient change that a thread of cultural
identity has been cut. Just as there are modern languages closer in
pronunciation and form to Latin than modern Italian, there are other
places that used to be part of the Roman world that probably have closer
ties to the culture of ancient Rome than Rome itself now does, some even
that have never been successively invaded and ruled by Visigoths,
Lombards and Normans. Oh, my!

One place, by the way, that garum appears to have survived into the
early Middle Ages at least is Byzantium. There's a wonderfully plaintive
passage in the writings of Luidprandt, Bishop of Cremona (vaguely
Carolingian) concerning his treatment as a not-especially-welcome envoy
to the Byzantine Court. He arrived to escort a Byzantine princess back
north to wed the Holy Roman/Frankish emperor, and was, among other
indignities, left standing outside the gates in the rain for several
days. Finally he was allowed into the city, and was fed what may have
been a typical Byzantine upper-class meal. He describes it as "...foul
and stinking, soused in oil like some drunkard's slops, and the whole
sprinkled with some vile fishy liquid." This would have been ~9th-10th
centuries C.E.

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:52:37 -0800
From: Lilinah biti-Anat <lilinah@grin.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts

Hauviette posted a long and interesting message:
>Garum or liquamen to me is a much more substantial sauce than the fish sauces
>so far mentioned, unless one of them is more substantial than the nuoc mam
>sauce I have seen and tasted. I prefer to use anchovy paste...
(snip)

and she includes a message from Marco Bernini:
>--I am probably going to ignite some controversy here but I do not agree that
>Nuoc mam and garum are the same thing at all.Nuoc mam is basically a fish
>based soy sauce originally made by fermenting anchovies in brine.  Today it
>is often made with concentrated extracts that arethen diluted, the resulting
>sauce is very watery and quite like fishy soy sauce.

Well, i have to disagree with Mr. Bernini's comment. Having lived in
Southeast Asia and also eaten and cooked a great deal of Southeast
Asian food in America, Southeast Asian fish sauces are not like
"fishy soy sauce". They are made by heavily salting small fish,
letting them stand from some time (i'm not sure for how long), then
straining the resultant mess, errr, mass. The resultant liquid is
fish sauce. There's no soy sauce in any i've had. And as far as i
know, the process producing soy sauce is different from that
producing fish sauce, although i could be under-informed...

Mr. Bernini describes the process:
>And at least some liquamen/garum recipes seem to indicate a similar
>procedure. Garum or liquamen has many recipes according to who you read,
>it is alternately made from whole fish, fish livers or fish guts and blood
>depending on whoís description you read.  This is then layered alternately
>with lots of salt and herbs of various sorts again depending on whoís recipe
>you use.  The container is then sealed and left to macerate NOT ROT as is
>commonly thought, it is impossible for the contents to rot due to the large
>amount of salt present.
>What happens is that the fish liquefy over time as the coarse salt melts and
>a thick lumpy brine is formed.  This is then strained either finely or
>coarsely depending on the use it is intended for

What i'm not certain of is: how different is the liquid from this
stuff, finely strained, is from fish sauce? How different is the
process of producing Southeast Asian fish sauce from that of
producing liquamen/garum?

I've watched the beginnings of making some shrimp paste in an
Indonesian village (strictly for local use), and it was basically
layering tiny shrimp with salt and letting it stand, although i don't
know if  there was some sort of "starter" (along the lines of mother
of vinegar, or yeast, or using yogurt to start a new batch) or
something was introduced later in the process...

as Mr. Bernini continues:
>My reasoning is based on the following:
>I am Roman, I was born in the city am 34 years old and live there today...
(snip)
>The crux of the
>matter is this; if garum was indeed as essential an ingredient in Roman
>cuisine as we are told by ancient texts then it is very likely that it would
>remain in the Roman diet in some prominent form today (much as soy sauce
>and Nuoc mam being very ancient still feature prominently in the far east).
>The fact that Italy has no Nuoc mam type sauce today nor has it had in living
>memory leads me to conclude that garum cannot have been a sauce like nuoc
>mam or it would remain in use today; not just in Italy but in Spain,
>Greece and
>North Africa,it is simply impossible for such an important ingredient to have
>disappeared from all of these countries without trace.

Well, i don't agree with him here. After reading enough old
cookbooks, it seems to me that some things have disappeared from
cuisines, while new things have become popular. I don't think it can
be assumed that if something was important in the Roman Empire it
would necessarily survive virtually unchanged for 1500 years. Maybe
it did, but it seems to me highly likely that time did not stand
still even in isolated Italian country villages.

However, i like anchovies on my pizza and in my Caesar salad (yeah, I
know, not Italian). And I have no objection to anchovy paste. So if
anchovy paste is like liquamen/garum, I can live with that.

So, Master Adamantius, since you've tasted a liquamen made the old
Roman way, how different is it from fish sauce? How different from
liquified anchovy paste? Would a blend of the two in any way
approximate it, or would that be far too different?

(I don't think I'm ready to keep a jar of fish and salt layered in my
kitchen, although possibly some day...)

Anahita


Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:06:04 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy@asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts

Lilinah biti-Anat wrote:
> Well, i have to disagree with Mr. Bernini's comment. Having lived in
> Southeast Asia and also eaten and cooked a great deal of Southeast
> Asian food in America, Southeast Asian fish sauces are not like
> "fishy soy sauce". They are made by heavily salting small fish,
> letting them stand from some time (i'm not sure for how long), then
> straining the resultant mess, errr, mass. The resultant liquid is
> fish sauce. There's no soy sauce in any i've had. And as far as i
> know, the process producing soy sauce is different from that
> producing fish sauce, although i could be under-informed...

The process is different, to say the least. Soybeans are boiled,
drained, mashed and formed into cakes, which are then left in a dark
place to grow a particular mold (as you mention in another context, a
starter may be added) in a process pretty similar to that used for
making sake. The mold-converted cakes are then steeped several times to
produce different grades of soy sauce, and some people eat the leftover
cakes, which are believed to be the cause of the extremely high rate of
stomach cancer in populations where soy sauce is made locally. Never
mind that so many Asians, even now, are chain smokers. But this is also,
I believe, the source of Charles Perry's theory that murri may be a
carcinogen, or contain carcinogens, because soy sauce is far, far more
like murri than like Asian fish sauce.

> Mr. Bernini describes the process:
> >And at least some liquamen/garum recipes seem to indicate a similar
> >procedure. Garum or liquamen has many recipes according to who you read,
> >it is alternately made from whole fish, fish livers or fish guts and blood
> >depending on whoís description you read.  This is then layered alternately
> >with lots of salt and herbs of various sorts again depending on whoís recipe
> >you use.

So, any claims anybody may make about garum are bound to be mostly
inaccurate because they won't apply across the board, while any
statements that _I_ may make, on the other hand, are accurate because of
common factors like salt...according to whose recipe you use? I don't
mean to wrong the man, but this seems a little too pat.

> >  The container is then sealed and left to macerate NOT ROT as is
> >commonly thought, it is impossible for the contents to rot due to the large
> >amount of salt present.
> >What happens is that the fish liquefy over time as the coarse salt melts and
> >a thick lumpy brine is formed.

And this is due not to the salt, either, but to the presence of enzymes
in great amounts in the fish entrails, and to a lesser extent in the
muscle itself (Some Philipino versions of bagoong, I think it's called,
are made with gutted fish: they'd likely be the source of the idea that
these sauces are supposed to be sour as well as salty and fishy).

> What i'm not certain of is: how different is the liquid from this
> stuff, finely strained, is from fish sauce? How different is the
> process of producing Southeast Asian fish sauce from that of
> producing liquamen/garum?

According to some authorities, not much, provided there's enough salt to
prevent lactic fermentation, which does occur in some Asian fish sauces,
but not in all.

> I've watched the beginnings of making some shrimp paste in an
> Indonesian village (strictly for local use), and it was basically
> layering tiny shrimp with salt and letting it stand, although i don't
> know if  there was some sort of "starter" (along the lines of mother
> of vinegar, or yeast, or using yogurt to start a new batch) or
> something was introduced later in the process...

No starter, AFAIK. I've seen this shrimp paste in jars in my
neighborhood, in several forms, some made from dried shrimp, producing a
mysterious purplish paste, others grey or nearly white, depending on
differences in the process according to different regional traditions.

> After reading enough old
> cookbooks, it seems to me that some things have disappeared from
> cuisines, while new things have become popular. I don't think it can
> be assumed that if something was important in the Roman Empire it
> would necessarily survive virtually unchanged for 1500 years. Maybe
> it did, but it seems to me highly likely that time did not stand
> still even in isolated Italian country villages.

Ya think? ;  )  As I said, the toga, real Latin, and a dislike for
Certain North African Empires comes to mind as social factors that have
simply become extinct. I'm sure there are other culinary examples that
come to mind: certain of the wine preparations, for example, the habit
of boiling and pureeing vegetables only to thicken them again into
custards, probably the extensive use of pennyroyal. I'm sure there are others.

> However, i like anchovies on my pizza and in my Caesar salad (yeah, i
> know, not Italian).

Mexican or Italian descent, however.

> And i have no objection to anchovy paste. So if
> anchovy paste is like liquamen/garum, i can live with that.
>
> So, Master Adamantius, since you've tasted a liquamen made the old
> Roman way, how different is it from fish sauce? How different from
> liquified anchovy paste? Would a blend of the two in any way
> approximate it, or would that be far too different?

Real garum seems to taste pretty close to anchovy paste, but the color
and texture aren't even close, and the aroma of either is actually
rather mild compared to what you might expect. I guess it would depend
on your use. What I tasted was a clear yellowish-to-amber liquid, with a
body or "mouth feel" like ale; it's as if it had a high enough specific
gravity you could taste it -- it's a bit heavier than the SE Asian fish
sauces I'm familiar with. A slight oiliness, but not much -- I assume
this is natural fish oil. Garum was always thought to be an extremely
healthy food product, provided you're not a tunny or a mackerel... . It
definitely tasted of anchovies, and then so did the nam pla that was
placed alongside it for comparison, but they weren't the same. I think
perhaps the trace of oil was missing from the nam pla. Maybe if one were
to blenderize a can of anchovies in oil in nam pla or another
non-vinegar-based fish sauce, then let the solids settle out, that'd be
a closer approximation. I'm also a bit surprised that some of the
"quick" boiled versions haven't been experimented with more. I think
it's what Flower and Rosenbaum used for their various trials of Roman
recipes.

Adamantius

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris        garum-msg       16