frumenty-msg - 9/7/08

A period cooked grain dish often with eggs, cream and saffron.

NOTE: See also the files: rice-msg, grains-msg, puddings-msg, breakfast-msg, venison-msg, eggs-msg, polenta-msg, custards-msg, rice-pudding-msg, porridges-msg.

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From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:14:48 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - cooking frumenty for the masses

Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
> Does anyone have experience cooking barley for large numbers of people?
> We will be making frumenty outdoors, and I need to know how it bulks up
> for say, 100 bodies. Is it like rice, ie touchy but doable if you know
> how? Or is it like pasta where if you give it enough water it's fine?

I've never cooked barley in large quantities outdoors, but I do know a
few things about it. To be on the safe side, I'd say it's better to
compare it to rice than to pasta, because if you just boil it till it's
done, and then drain it, it has a tendency to become cemented together
by gravity. You also lose a certain amount of the nutritional value by
filling up your cooking water with barley tea and throwing it away, but
in the case of pearl barley it may be a moot point.

If you're going for a final product which people can neatly pigeonhole
into some prior experience, I suggest you cook it like a pilaf. To do
that, you need 6 cups of boiling liquid
per pound of barley, which equals approximately two cups, BTW. Toss the
barley in a pan with a bit of hot oil or butter, until the barley is
well coated with the oil and begins to toast a bit, and have your liquid
on the boil in a separate pot. Combine, cover, and simmer on LOW heat
for 25 -30 minutes. Depending on how much you're cooking, it may well
really want to burn before the top layer is done, so you may want to
consider cooking two or three smaller batches, and use the heaviest pots
you can get away with.

> I just fear ending up with a gloppy mess (thereby undoing all thepositive
> propaganda I've been giving out about medieval food not being brown
> gloppy messes!).

Now, this is all with the understanding that frumenty is supposed to
have a consistency  something like a risotto or rice pudding: spoonable
but cohesive; in a word, stondyng. However, I'll grant that that might
not be what you necessarily need under your current circumstances.

It just occurred to me that you might consider bulgur wheat, which is
precooked, and wheat being, so far as I know, the more standard grain
for frumenty anyway. I'm thinking that bulgur cooks very much like
Minute (Pfeh!) Rice, especially the smaller-cut varieties of bulgur. You
could essentially pour your boiling liquid over the bulgur, cover it,
and let the wheat drink up the liquid, with no possibility of burning.
Bulgur gets 2 parts liquid to one of bulgur by volume, same as rice.
Better to use too little liquid than too much; if it's too dry or hard
you can add more boiling liquid. Bulgur generally takes about 20 minutes
to "cook", and the initial coating with oil is optional. You might
consider it anyway if you're really concerned about the glop factor.

G. Tacitus Adamantius


From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:27:17 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: SC - cooking frumenty for the masses

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
> Does anyone have experience cooking barley for large numbers of people? 

I have made frumenty outside for about 100 people.  Did it at a camping
event three years ago.  I did not make a 'savory' frumenty with broth
but a plain frumenty cooked in milk.  we served it with cream and 
strawberries.  I know this is not traditional, but the cooking should
be fairly similar.  doing it in broth may actually be easier.

I used cracked wheat rather than barley, and the trick was to warm the
liquid through before adding the grain and then keep stirring without
a stop (three people, almost two hours) and keep the heat steady - not
too hot, but not let it cool off.

the resulting porridge was indeed brown and gloppy, but, sweetened with a 
little honey, tasted marvelous.

let me know if you need anything more specific.  and oh, I used a double
bottomed stock pot filled about 3/4 full and a very large wooden spoon for
stirring.

elaina


From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:57:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - cooking frumenty for the masses

Adamantius wrote:
  It just occurred to me that you might consider bulgur wheat, which is
  precooked, and wheat being, so far as I know, the more standard grain
  for frumenty anyway. I'm thinking that bulgur cooks very much like
  Minute (Pfeh!) Rice, especially the smaller-cut varieties of bulgur. You
  could essentially pour your boiling liquid over the bulgur, cover it,
  and let the wheat drink up the liquid, with no possibility of burning.
  Bulgur gets 2 parts liquid to one of bulgur by volume, same as rice.
  Better to use too little liquid than too much; if it's too dry or hard
  you can add more boiling liquid. Bulgur generally takes about 20 minutes
  to "cook", and the initial coating with oil is optional. You might
  consider it anyway if you're really concerned about the glop factor.

I cook a wide variety of grains at home, because of my limited diet. The
true advantage of bulgur is as he describes: add liquid, mix, cover and
ignore.

My wife has done this for frumenty for feasts, and it works well.

The only concern I might have for you, is that by cooking out of doors a
strong wind can rob your kettles of heat too quickly.  You may wish to
consider setting up a windbreak, to keep all of your cooking times more
predictable.

	Tibor (Watched a 2 hour dish become a 4 hour dish that way...)


From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:37:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: SC - cooking frumenty for the masses

I have cooked outdoors with grains quite a bit since we wind up with lots
of outdoor events.  I made a mushroom barley stew with leeks out doors.  I
like barley which has a nutty taste that works well with stews.  The best
thing I found is to cook smaller batches and mix them together.  The
biggest problem with grains being cooked on Colemans, over fires and such
is too often the pot is too big and isn't stirred well so the bottom burns.
I use 3 gal pots and mix them when they are hot..  Our events usually have
a minimum of 150 hungry people with a maximum of 350 or 400 and the smaller
pots work better even though the dish takes longer to cook.

        Another idea is to precook your grains a bring them out to reheat
and mix with any other ingredients.  Again I think smaller pots work better
than large.

        One of the best outdoor heating facilities I ever used was a water
heater bottom hooked up to a butane tank.  It could boil a 25 gal pot of
hot water in less than two minutes.  Really good......

Clare St. John


From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:07:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #177

>Does anyone have experience cooking barley for large numbers of people? 
>We will be making frumenty outdoors, and I need to know how it bulks up 
>for say, 100 bodies. Is it like rice, ie touchy but doable if you know 
>how? Or is it like pasta where if you give it enough water it's fine?
>
>- --Anne-Marie d'Ailleurs

Hi there! My group does a demo twice a year with another group called the
holistic consortium. You guessed it...we have to serve some vegetarian fare.
I have watched my friend Rowan of Ashebrook making vegetarian barley for the
demo just like one would make  rosotto--brown the barley with a good quality
oil astirring in a ladle full of extra-rich broth at a time, till it is
absorbed, and continuing until the alotted amount is used up, stirring,
stirring all the way. She sautes seasonal veggies and stirs them in at the
last, along with the spices. She uses a pan from a warming table for the
correct size to serve about 100 servings. We always sell out. A friend says
one of the benefits of being a scadian is that cooks in the SCA know how to
make you WANT to eat Barley!

BTW I like my risotto the day afterward, mixed with a beaten egg and fried
into cakes in the griddle. Yum! I suppose there no hope THAT practice is period?

Aoife


From: rousseau at scn.org (Anne-Marie Rousseau)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SC - Frumenty for the masses, continued

Hi all from Anne-Marie.
Wow! Some great suggestions! First off, I should remind you guys that I 
am a real stickler for documentation and sticking to the original source, 
so the wonderful ideas about lighty toasting the barley in oil before 
cooking is right out (not in the original text I'm using). Now, for my 
modern cooking, that's another story! (actually, my biriyani recipe has 
you do that with the rice. Yum!)

The original source that we're using is the Frumenty from Curye on English.
"Nym clene wete and bray it in a morter wel, that the holys gon al of, & 
set yt til ty breset; & nym yt up & lat it kele. And nyum fayre fresch 
broth & smete muylk of almandys or swete mulk of kyne and temper yt al. & 
nym the yolkys of eryrn & saffron & do thereto. Boyle it a lityl & set yt 
adoun, & messe yt forthe wyth fat venysoun & fresch motoun".

I am choosing to use barley, as there is a similar recipe for barley 
gruel in the contemporary _le Menagier a Paris_, and I prefer barley to 
wheat (and also we are playing the conceit of an English Baron and 
Baroness with a French cook).

Our reconstruction:
2 cups hulled barley
5 1/5 cups vegetable broth
1/2 cup cows milk
pinch of saffron
4 egg yolks

Bring the broth and milk to a boil. Stir in the barley. Cover with a 
tight lid and allow to simmer over low heat for about 40 minutes, until 
barley is tender. Stir in the beaten egg yolks and saffron, and cook 
gently a few more minutes until the egg is set.

The resulting dish is a very rich barley. Slightly gloppy, but still 
discernable grains. Outstanding as a foil to something else, like sliced 
meat or stewed mushrooms.

- --AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anne-Marie Rousseau
rousseau at scn.org
Seattle, Washington


From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 14:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty for the masses, continued

At 10:38 PM -0700 6/26/97, Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
Maeve suggested a quick boil then sit aside to let
>it absorbe the rest of the liquid...that might work. I'll try it in a
>small test batch with my crummiest pot to duplicate the conditions as
>best I can :).

Our standard way of making rice in quantity (i.e., 3 to 5 gallons) is to
bring the water to a boil (having previously tested that variety of rice to
get an idea what the water-to-rice ratio is), add the rice, bring back to a
boil while stirring, cover, and remove from heat; let sit 20-30 minutes and
it is done.  You may be able to scrounge lids for your pots--find large
platters or frying pans that would do--and wrap old towels around and over
to insulate, since you are cooking outdoors.  The once we did a larger
quantity--a 9-gallon pot, nearly full-- it was too much; the stuff at the
bottom was squished down into a solid mass by the weight on top.  We
haven't tried this for frumenty.

Betty Cook/Elizabeth


From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 04:29:17 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty for the masses, continued

Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
> Elizabeth tells us how they make rice, and suggests it might work for barley.
> 
> I'm wondering, though, how that works then for the final stage of
> stirring in the egg yolks. You'd need to stir the big pot of stuff over
> heat and make sure all the egg set, but that the stuff didn't burn. Hmmm...
> 
> Thanks for the ideas! Keep 'em coming!
> --Anne-Marie

Another possibility is to make a stirred, unsweetened custard with the
egg yolks and some portion of the total liquid. You could add your
saffron to it, too. When your grain is 90% cooked and still hot, and
your custard is still warm, you can begin stirring the grain into the
custard, a little at a time, until they're fully combined. Then cover
the stuff and leave it to finish cooking in its residual heat. This may
take a little extra management of pots and pans, but it should preclude
burning. I don't think, given the proportion of egg yolks to grain, that
there would be a significant difference in the final texture just
because you don't have the structural support offered by a baked or
unstirred custard.

Adamantius


From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 08:42:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Stirring in the eggs

<< I'm wondering, though, how that works then for the final stage of 
 stirring in the egg yolks. You'd need to stir the big pot of stuff over 
 heat  >>

Actually, leaving the grain on the heat when stirring in the eggs is totally
unnecessary to set them. The heat from the food is more than adequate to cook
the egg. Just stir in  and cover. Leave sit 5 mins. or so. Voila! Set eggs.
:-)

Lord Ras


Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:15:15 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - recipes (vegetarian)

Hi all from Anne-Marie
My favorite (so far! :)) vegetarian documented period recipe is frumenty
(barley), espeicially when served with a big scoop of funges on top.

If you have specific questions on my reconstrucions, feel free to ask away.
Oh, and if you do use these, all I ask is that you let me know (I get a
buzz off knowing people are eating my food all over the place! :))

enjoy!

FRUMENTY (Diuersa Servicia #1, c. 1399)
For to make furmenty. Nym clene wete & bray it in a morter wel, that the
holys gon al of, & seyt yt til ty breste; & nym yt up & lat it kele. And
nyum fayre fresch broth & swete mylk of almandys or swete mylk of kyne and
temper yt al. & nym the yolkys of eyryn & saffron & do thereto. Boyle it a
lityl & set yt adoun, & messe yt forthe wyth fat venysoun & fresch motoun.

1 cup pearl barley
2 3/4 cups veggie broth
1/4 cup milk
pinch saffron
1 egg

Stir barley into broiling broth, along with saffron. Cover pan and cook
over very low heat 30-50 minutes. Stir in beaten egg. Stir over very low
heat for a few minutes before serving.
Serves 6.


Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:05:31 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty for the Masses, revisited

Hi all from Anne-Marie
Kat asks about preparing large amounts of frumenty.

We did it for 150 with great ease. We did the English meat day version,
substituting barley for the wheat (I can provide documentation and
justification on request). We were going to serve it at an outdoor event,
and would ahve very limited facilities. I was desperately afraid that it
would burn or scorch or turn out as a gloppy grey mess.

What we did was two days before the event, cook the barley in the broth and
milk with the saffron. When the barley was perfectly done, we stirred in
the raw beaten egg yolks. We then sealed the slimey mess in boil in the bag
seal-a-meals (NOT ZIPLOCKS!!!). The bags were then stored in coolers with
ice until they were ready to be served.

Right before mealtime on site, we heated up large kettles of water using
monster propane cookstoves, like you get at Costco up here. The bags of
frumenty were dropped in the boiling water bath. The raw egg cooked as the
stuff heated up. You could tell they were done because the cold solid mass
of barley became soft and pliable within the bag. The bags were removed
from the boiling water bath, cut open, and the frumenty dumped into a large
serving dish.

Tadaaaa! no burning, no scorching, no gloppy grey mess. And most tasty with
a big scoopful of Funges (stewed mushrooms and leeks with spices) on top.
Yum yum yum!

Good luck!
- --Anne-Marie


Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 22:35:04 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re:  Frumenty for the Masses, Revisited

Hi all from Anne-Marie....
Kat says...
>
> Not Ziplocs because of the danger of leakage, I assume?
Yep. Especially after being shoved into a very full cooler and then dumped
into a pot of boiling water. Better safe than sorry. The sealer bags are
cheaper than zippies anyway.

> Did you let the cooked grain cool to room temp. first before stirring the
raw beaten eggs in?

Not on purpose...we just let it sit long enough to get the bags ready and
whatever else on the stove to a good point where we could walk away. In
hindsight, it probably doesnt mattter too much as long as you stir really
well before you bag. The original has you add the egg to the hot barley
anyway.

> Just out of curiosity, what seasonings do you use in your Fungys?  I'm
using saffron, pepper and a little cubeb (and I'm using homemade veggie
broth rather than chicken stock this time, since I've had veggie RSVPs);
but I'm open to other varieties as well...  :-)  and I LOOOOOOVE this dish;
so any excuse to make a "test batch" for dinner...

Me too! One of my favorites. I flavor mine with a good dose of poudre forte
(cinnamon, ginger, a tad of clove and grains of paradise. Tony a la World
Spice has my recipe on file and so I can just get a bag of it whenever I
want) plus the saffron. I used veggie broth (I found the Swansons brand to
be the tastiest, though the label says it contains very unfortunate new
world ingredients. For us the biggest thing was that it NOT contain MSG,
which several people in our barony have problems with) as well as the
requisite leeks. The secret, I found was to boil the stuff for a very long
time until there was very little broth left. The leeks cooked down to
almost nothing and the stuff was very very flavorful! Yum!

Good luck! Starch in mass quantities is intimidating to me. This method
worked well for us, and I hope it serves you too.

- --AM


Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:36:47 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: SC - SC-reconstructions of medieval grain and legume dishes

Hi all from Anne-Marie
as promised, here's my reconstructions for medieval dishes that can be used
to combine grains and legumes. As Cariadoc has pointed out, this is not a
medieval concept, but these are reconstructions of medieval dishes, so I
guess its better than sneaking in your Veggie burger cuz there's nothing
else to eat.

Once again, formatting didn't transfer over well, and so if you need
citations, etc, let me know. And, of course, as always, if you choose to
use my recipes, that's great, just let me know and please cite me
appropriately.
Thanks, and enjoy!
- --AM

FRUMENTY (Diuersa Servicia #1, c1399)
For to make furmenty. Nym clene wete & bray it in a morter wel, that the
holys gon al of, & seyt yt til yt breste; & nym yt up & lat it kele. And
nyum fayre fresch broth & swete mylk of almandys or swete mylk of kyne and
temper yt al. & nym the yolkys of eyryn & saffron & do thereto. Boyle it a
lityl & set yt adoun, & messe yt forthe wyth fat venysoun & fresch motoun.

1 cup pearl barley
2 3/4 cups Swanson's brand vegetable broth
1/4 cup whole milk
pinch saffron
2 egg yolks

Stir the barley into the boiling broth, along with the saffron. Cover the
pan with a tight fitting lid and cook over very low heat 30-50 minutes,
until grain is tender. Stir in beaten egg yolks. Stir over very low heat
for a few minutes until the egg sets. Serve hot.
Serves 6 (1/2 cup cooked barley per person)

Reconstruction notes: The original text of the English recipe calls for
wheat, which is boiled until the hulls come off and grains swell and burst.
There is a similar recipe in le Menagier de Paris that uses barley instead
of wheat, as well as a recipe for frumenty that specifies to "hull your
wheat the same as you would for hulled barley". Based on this, and the
conceit of a French cook, we chose to use hulled barley instead of wheat.

<snip>


Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:03:07 -0500
From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for vegetarian "main" dish needed

>Roast venison with pepper sauce
>
>Apple tart (V)
>
>As you can see, we need a vegetarian dish to complement the roast
>venison.

>Brangwayna

        The most obvious choice to me would be a frumenty.  The grains
for the dish varied, but basically it was a dish made of cooked grains
(barley, wheat, oats, etc.).  As an accompaniment to venison, it ususally
had meat chunks and/or fat in it, and sometimes was made with saffron
and/or with eggs and cream to make it rich.  For a vegetarian version, I
would cook your grains in a broth (our store sells a very good vegetarian
broth, chicken and beef flavors!).  I have added onions and mushrooms to
mine  (The "briw" that I made for the Pennsic Cooks Reception was mixed
grains, -cause I had lots of different grains left over and not enough of
any one to make a whole dish,  cooked with chicken soup [with onions], a
bit of salt and pepper, and sliced mushrooms added at the end of the
cooking process.  It was quite tasty.)  I wouldn't try to do without the
meat-flavored broth though, a big part of the richness of the dish comes
from that flavor - otherwise, you've got gruel! (which is what I'm
telling my roommate it is;)

The Bayeaux Tapestry has pictures of the feast for William, and it has
been conjectured tha two of the dishes are Venison and Frumenty.
        Good luck,
        Christianna
        think I'll go warm up some gruel for dinner :)


Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:11:04 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - cooking frumenty

lainie at gladstone.uoregon.edu writes:
<< Something just popped out of the back of my head regarding
 frumently, and I though I'd ask- how do you keep it from scorching,
 particularly in large batches?  >>

Bring the water to a rolling boil, add seasonings, fat and other things except
grain. Bring to a rolling boil again. Add grain; stirring as you add it. This
can be accomplished with one person stirring while the other pours. Bring to a
boil again making sure you stir the grain FREQUENTLY lifting it from the
bottom. Cover TIGHTLY. Turn off heat. DO NOT LIFT THE LID.Leave covered for
about 30 to 40 minutes. DO NOT LIFT THE LID. This should produce mass cooked
grains that are fully cooked and unscorched.

Ras


Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:42:26 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for vegetarian "main" dish needed

Brangwayna also asked about cooking frumenty; here is our current recipe:

Frumente
Curye on Inglysch p. 98 (Forme of Cury no. 1)

To make frumente. Tak clene whete & braye yt wel in a morter tyl the holes
gon of; sethe it til it breste in water. Nym it vp & lat it cole. Tak good
broth & swete mylk of kyn or of almand & tempere it therwith. Nym yelkys of
eyren rawe & saffroun & cast therto; salt it; lat it nought boyle after the
eyren been cast therinne. Messe it forth with venesoun or with fat motoun
fresch. [end of original; thorns replaced by th's]

1 c cracked wheat
2 c water
1/3 c chicken broth
1/3 c whole milk (or almond milk)
2 egg yolks
4 threads saffron
1/2 t salt

Bring water to a boil. Add wheat and bring back to a boil, cook about 10
min, then remove lid and cool, with occasional stirring to hasten the
cooling and break up the pasty lumps. Crush saffron into a little of the
broth; add saffron, broth and whole milk to the wheat and heat. When heated
through, stir in egg yolks and salt. Frumenty is traditionally served with
venison; this recipe also suggests serving with mutton.

Elizabeth/Betty Cook


Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:58 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty Recipes

Hi all from Anne-Marie

Here's the version of frumenty I did for our BoonDay meal a few years back.
Check out _Serve it Forth_ if you want the whole article! We made it in
smallish batches up to the point where you put in the raw egg and put it in
sealed boiling bags (NOT ZIPLOCKS!). On site we got big pots of water boiling
and dropped the bags in. When the hard cold lumps became soft and pliable,
the egg was cooked and the stuff was hot through.

worked like a charm, though not period in method at all. We did this up the
hill from the event so no one would have their little medieval dream shattered
:). The food was carried down from the "kitchen" on big boards by burley
servers, just like a Brugel painting :).

Good luck!
- --AM

FRUMENTY (Diuersa Servicia #1, c1399)
For to make furmenty. Nym clene wete & bray it in a morter wel, that the holys
gon al of, & seyt yt til yt breste; & nym yt up & lat it kele. And nyum fayre
fresch broth & swete mylk of almandys or swete mylk of kyne and temper yt al. &
nym the yolkys of eyryn & saffron & do thereto. Boyle it a lityl & set yt
adoun, & messe yt forthe wyth fat venysoun & fresch motoun.

1 cup pearl barley
2 3/4 cups Swanson's brand vegetable broth
1/4 cup whole milk
pinch saffron
2 egg yolks

Stir the barley into the boiling broth, along with the saffron. Cover the pan
with a tight fitting lid and cook over very low heat 30-50 minutes, until grain
is tender. Stir in beaten egg yolks. Stir over very low heat for a few minutes
until the egg sets. Serve hot.
Serves 6 (1/2 cup cooked barley per person)

Reconstruction notes: The original text of the English recipe calls for wheat,
which is boiled until the hulls come off and grains swell and burst. There is a
similar recipe in le Menagier de Paris that uses barley instead of wheat, as
well as a recipe for frumenty that specifies to "hull your wheat the same as
you would for hulled barley". Based on this, and the conceit of a French
cook, we chose to use hulled barley instead of wheat


Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:51:02 -0500
From: "Gedney, Jeffrey" <gedje01 at mail.cai.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Frumenty Recipes

Here is a link to a recipe I used for a feast I did recently. It had a very
simple and tasty frumente, almost idiot proof ( I am not just any idiot!).

http://www2.iconn.net/gedney/Recipes/frumente.htm

You may want to adjust the saffron amount. I think that a little more would
improve the color. ( use your judgement. the Saffron might change the
lightly sweet flavor of this one.

The original recipe is from a fourteenth century manuscript, as published by
Butler and Heiatt in "an Ordinance of Pottage".

brandu


Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:36:40 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty Recipes

Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
> you cook the barley in the milk, I believe (deleted the orignian message,
> sorry!)
> stir the raw eggs into the cooled cooked barley, bag it up. the heating
> process will cook the eggs and you wont get scrambled eggs.
> --AM

Presumably the vegetable broth is mixed with the milk before cooking. Do
we need to emphasize that the cooked barley should be cooled until
_cold_ before the raw egg is stirred in? We don't want anything that
might be in those eggs to have a chance to incubate for more than an
hour, maximum. I'm sure most of us realize this, but we prolly ought not
to take it for granted.

Adamantius, troublemaker par excellence


Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:11:45 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty Recipes

hi all from Anne-Marie

re: cootie control in cooked barley with raw eggs...

Didn't I mentiion that the barley is refrigerated the whole time until its
cooked? Barley on its own, once cooked makes one of the best bacterial
growth mediums there is. Add raw eggs, and its asking for trouble!
Fortunately the bags fit nicely in a cooler.

- --AM


Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:52:12 -0600
From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - 14th Century Food--barley frumenty

Earlier this week, I posted Anne-Marie for the documentation of barley
frumenty, and yesterday I was looking through Mistress Elizabeth's
Chiquart, and found 3 recipes, in the invalid section: #75, 77, 78, that
are for barley, semolina and oatmeal.  They certainly sound like frumenty
to me.  I can't post them right now without crashing the computer: that
file is too large, but if anyone is looking at the on-line copy in Duke
Sir Cariadoc's web site, or has a file, try these and see if you think
they are frumenty.  I'd like to know other opinions.

Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc


Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:17:46 EST
From: Gerekr at aol.com
Subject: SC - Frumenty using barley?

Every period recipe I can find at the moment (2 15th, Miscellany, etc.)
says wheat for Frumenty.

But I -think- I've seen one slightly vague reference to barley here, and
my lord has an ancient recipe in his files that calls for barley (ancient
means he copied it from a source that left with a former girlfriend,
8-)).  Can anyone quote me a period reference for barley, please?

Chimene & Gerek


Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:39:34 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Frumenty using barley?

> Every period recipe I can find at the moment (2 15th, Miscellany, etc.)
> says wheat for Frumenty.
>
> But I -think- I've seen one slightly vague reference to barley here, and
> my lord has an ancient recipe in his files that calls for barley (ancient
> means he copied it from a source that left with a former girlfriend,
> 8-)).  Can anyone quote me a period reference for barley, please?
>
> Chimene & Gerek

Barley Polenta

(Pliny, Naturalis Historia, 18, 73, as taken from Giacosa, A Taste of
Ancient Rome)

Vicenis hordei libris ternas seminis lini et coriandri selibram salisque
acetabulum.

For each 20 librae of barley, 3 librae of linseeds and 1/2 libra of
coriander, in addition to an acetabulum of salt.

 Serves 4.

12 oz. ground barley
3 Tbs. linseeds
2 tsp. coriander
sufficient salt

Boil 1 quart of water, gradually add the ingredients, and leave to cook for
approximately 1 hour.  Add more boiling water if the barley consumes too
much.  A more flavorful polenta can be obtained by cooking the barley in
meat stock or vegetable broth instead of water.

Frumenty and polenta both mean cooked grain.  Cooked grains are common from
Antiquity to the Present.  I suspect the reason that wheat is the common
grain in frumenty is that wheat has the lowest yield per acre of any of the
cereals and is therefore the most expensive of grains, making it the most
appropriate for a noble's table.

Bear


Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:56:18 EST
From: Gerekr at aol.com
Subject: SC - Frumenty - ANOTHER question!

We got 4 versions of (wheat) frumenty thru cooking night successfully,
and a decision made for the 12N course ... except for the philosophical
debate that arose over whether wheat berries, cracked wheat or bulgur
would have been a closer texture match to what period diners would have
gotten/expected.

That is, chewey whole grain kernels in sauce, or flavored mush.

The issue came up partly because of all the hulling and breaking
instructions in almost all the recipes.  I was assuming that those are
there because whole-grains got stored in a less-refined state than the
wheat berries you can get at the grocery store... that there actually
- -were- hulls to break up and remove (comments in some recipes about
"doing away the chaff" (sic)).  Personally I (Chimene) prefer the chewier
texture of even completely cooked wheat berries (and kept derisively
referring to the cracked wheat result as "peasant pap", 8-0!), but I'm
the beneficiary of 20thC dentistry.  Others (Gerek) preferred the mush
form.

We prepared 4 versions, 3 with wheat berries, and one with cracked wheat,
which may have turned out mushier than if we'd used "bulgur" -- cracked
wheat and bulgur -are- two different things, yes?  We're assuming bulgur
is to cracked wheat sort of like steel-cut oats oatmeal is to rolled oats
oatmeal, and are going to check by doing a set for next meeting.

And someone raised the side issue that the common commercial wheat
berries that we used were probably a hard wheat, where most of the period
European stuff was a soft variety.  Whether this is a distinction we can
expect to impose on hotel cooks (Double Tree) may make this a moot point,
but it was raised.  Although in -this- town, we probably have a
reasonably good chance of their finding it if they look for it, at least.

So, there's another couple of questions!  Who woulda thunk it!

Thanks, & looking forward to erudition, enlightenment, etc., 8-),
Chimene & Gerek


Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:18:41 -0500
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty - ANOTHER question!

>We prepared 4 versions, 3 with wheat berries, and one with cracked wheat,
>which may have turned out mushier than if we'd used "bulgur" -- cracked
>wheat and bulgur -are- two different things, yes?  We're assuming bulgur
>is to cracked wheat sort of like steel-cut oats oatmeal is to rolled oats
>oatmeal, and are going to check by doing a set for next meeting.

To my knowledge, Cracked Wheat and Bulgar Wheat are used interchangeably.
 No doubt someone else will come up with the reason there are two names,
but I think in common (modern) use, they are the same.

        Mistress Christianna MacGrain


Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:15:34 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Frumenty - yet one nore question!

Having finally found the yellowing notes, we have an adaptation of a recipe
for frumenty from Robert May's The Accomplisht Cook (1660), which places it
out of period.  Since the original recipe is not referenced, I have no idea
how close this matches the original.

Bear

Furmenty

1 cup whole grain wheat berries
4 cups water
1 1/2 cup light cream
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon mace
1 3" cinnamon stick
1 tablespoon brown sugar
2 egg yolks

Rinse wheat to remove chaff.  Now you can do all of these steps in a double
boiler, or you can be immensely careful not to let it burn.

Boil water.  Add wheat, remove from heat, cover and let sit for 8 hours.
Reboil the water and simmer for 1/2 hour.
Drain off excess water.  Add cream, salt and spices.
Simmer until most of the cream has been absorbed, stirring frequently.
Just before serving, beat sugar and egg yolks together.  Stir into the
frumenty and let cook for about 5 minutes.
Remove cinnamon stick.  Serve.

I did this dish once for a feast about 14 years ago with reasonable results.
I used crock pots to cook and hold it.  As it thickens, the dish becomes
more prone to burning and it should not be held too long for that reason.

The people who ate it at the feast referred to it as "frog's eggs".

The top of the dish can be dusted with additional brown sugar or cinnamon
sugar, if you choose.


Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:37:29 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: RE: SC - Frumenty - yet one nore question!

>Having finally found the yellowing notes, we have an adaptation of a recipe
>for frumenty from Robert May's The Accomplisht Cook (1660), which places it
>out of period.  Since the original recipe is not referenced, I have no idea
>how close this matches the original.
>
>Bear

<snip>

The adaptation you give came from Dining With William Shakespeare, by Madge
Lorwin, p. 203.  Here is the cited original from May:

"To Make Furmenty
Take wheat and wet it, then beat it in a sack with the wash-beetle, being
finely hulled and cleaned from the dust and hulls, boil it over night, and
let it soak on a soft fire all night; then next morning take as much as
will serve the turn, put it in a pipkin, pan or skillet, and put it a
boiling in cream or milk, with mace, salt, whole cinamon, and saffron, or
yolkes of eggs, boil it thick and serve it in a clean scowred dish, scrape
on sugar, and trim the dish."

Cindy Renfrow
renfrow at skylands.net


Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:41:42 -0600
From: "Sharon R. Saroff" <sindara at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty - yet one nore question!

>And it came to pass on 16 Mar 99,, that THLRenata at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Bear!  I was wondering, after all the list's frumenty
>> (non-sweetened) talk, if I was just reading too many trashy historical
>> novels. ;)
>>
>> Renata
>
>There is a Spanish recipe for wheat which is boiled in water, then
>cooked with almond milk, and served topped with sugar and
>cinnamon.  Sounds like sweet frumenty to me.
>
>Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

I know of a Tu B'Shvat recipe called Prehito (Turkish Wheat pudding) that
is made from bulghur, sugar, honey, cinnamon and chopped walnuts.  It
sounds similar to frumenty to me.

Sindara


Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:33:00 EST
From: Gerekr at aol.com
Subject: Re:  RE: SC - Frumenty - yet one nore question!

When we were doing our research, I charted ingredients on 10 frumenty
recipes from English sources from ca. 1381 thru 2-15th.  Half of them (5)
included sugar.

>From the Misc, the Ancient cookery appended to FC, the recipe on p. 81
>From the Misc, the Noble Boke, the recipe on p. 100
>From my own EETS 2-15th, the recipes on pp. 17, 70 & 105 (that's 75% of
>the recipes in that source)

I was expecting the sweetened recipes, had never run across an
unsweetened one particularly.  Are these early enough?  No particular
connection to Christmas in these sources, however.

Chimene


Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:39:03 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty - yet one nore question!

Gerekr at aol.com wrote:
> When we were doing our research, I charted ingredients on 10 frumenty
> recipes from English sources from ca. 1381 thru 2-15th.  Half of them (5)
> included sugar.
>
> >From the Misc, the Ancient cookery appended to FC, the recipe on p. 81
> >From the Misc, the Noble Boke, the recipe on p. 100
> >From my own EETS 2-15th, the recipes on pp. 17, 70 & 105 (that's 75% of
> the recipes in that source)
>
> I was expecting the sweetened recipes, had never run across an
> unsweetened one particularly.  Are these early enough?  No particular
> connection to Christmas in these sources, however.

Bear in mind, of course, that because a recipe calls for the addition of
some sugar to a dish doesn't necessarily mean the final product is what
we'd call sweet. Many people add a bit of sugar to marinara sauce but
don't eat linguine for dessert.

> And thanks to Bear for the info on bulgur and hard/soft wheat.  Did
> anyone else have more opinions or evidence on the question of whole wheat
> berries vs physically-smashed-in-some-form ones being what period
> upper-class diners would expect?

The fourteenth-and-fifteenth century recipes seem pretty
straightforward: you pound and winnow the wheat, which indicates pretty
clearly it is whole, you cook it until the grains or berries burst and
the dish is thick (which will really become dramatically so after the
grains have burst their starch out). What you'll end up with is a thick
puddingy porridge a bit like Chinese jook or congee (depending on
dialect), only thicker and with bits of wheat bran mixed in, so it will
have more "character" than a porridge made from polished rice.

If you use whole wheat berries, and they remain whole in the finished
dish, however, I'd think it means you used too little liquid to start
with and didn't cook it long enough.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:45:23 -0500
From: Helen <him at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - frumente serving question

Thanks, a ratio like that will really help me.  See below:

Original: 1.  To make frumente. Tak clene whete & braye yt wel in a
morter tyl [th]e holes gon of; se[th]e it til it breste in water.  Nym it
vp & lat it cole.  Tak good bro[th] & swete mylk of kyn or of almand &
tempere it [th]erwith.  Nym yelkys of eyren rawe & saffroun & cast
[th]erto; salt it; lat it naugt boyle after [th]e eyren ben cast
[th]erinne.  Messe it forth with venesoun or with fat motoun fresch.

1.  To make frumente.  Take clean wheat and bray it well in a mortar
until the hulls gone off; seethe it til it burst in water.  Take it up
and let it cool.  Take good broth and sweet cow's milk or almond milk and
temper it therewith.  Take raw yolks of eggs and saffron and cast
thereto; salt it; let it not boil after the eggs are added.  Serve it
forth with venison or with fat, fresh mutton.


Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:07 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Boar Recipe

cclark at vicon.net wrote:
> Adamantius wrote:
> >By hunters and, by extension, cooks. Venison can be used to refer to
> >just about any quadruped game animal with red meat, as far as I know. If
> >you look at various recipes you'll see references to "venison of deer or
> >of boar".

> So does this mean that one could braise one's boar meat and then serve it
> with frumenty?

Probably. Frumenty is also documented as having been served with mutton and with porpoise, after all. I suspect that if there was such a hard-and-fast tradition as serving it with venison, it would be subject to local interpretations of exactly what venison was. This would, of course, be over and above the recipes that specify boar, such as bourbelier, etc.

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:50:35 -0600 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Hard versus soft wheat berries for frumenty?

> Does anyone have any experience or suggestions regarding using hard
> wheat or soft wheat berries for frumenty (versus cracked wheat, bulgur
> wheat, or barley)?
> 
> Seumas

The decision of which to use depends larely on how much time you have and
the texture of the dish you desire.

Most of the recipes I'm familiar with use grain meal (cracked).  I do have
one which uses whole berries cooked in cream, sugar and spices.  Tasty, but
it takes a long time to cook.  Whole grains will take longer to prepare than
grain meal and usually require soaking overnight to soften them.

There are four grades of cracked wheat based on the fineness of the meal (I
would need to find my notes on this to give you the precise grades).  Most
readily available cracked grains are of average fineness.  Bulgur wheat is
cracked wheat which has been pre-cooked.  Bulgur wheat absorbs water quickly
and cooks faster than cracked wheat.  Most grain meals will cook up in about
30 minutes.

Toasted grains taste better (to me, at least) than untoasted.

Millet is also fun to prepare this way.

Bear


Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:13:41 -0600 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Hard versus soft wheat berries for frumenty?

> But back to topic. Generally, I think the parts of Europe where we find
> extant period furmenty recipes is pretty consistent with growing the
> softer strains of wheat. It seems pretty widely agreed, AFAIK, that the
> places where such foods as higher-gluten bread flours, as well as
> semi-automated mills, proliferated in period, were the places where
> harder wheats were grown.
> 
> One _might_ argue that the very fact that this wheat is being used to
> make frumenty argues that it is unsuitable for bread. Of course, that
> argument backfires if we wonder whether it is not being milled into
> flour because of its hardness. But what the hey.
>    
> Adamantius
 
Bread requires a finer meal than frumenty.  It also takes more time.  And it
requires an oven of some type.

If the mill could not turn out a fine enough flour, then frumenty makes
sense.  It also makes sense to use the fine meal from a bolting for bread
and the coarse meal for frumenty.  Harder wheat turns out more fine meal
suitable for bread, so I have no doubt bread was more common in the areas
which raised harder wheats.

Since grain is easy to cook and porridges and gruels seem to be common in
period, the fact that there are recipes for cooked wheat would suggest that
these are dishes less commonly prepared.

Bear


Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 19:38:58 EST
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re: Wheat Berries

<< Does anyone have any experience or suggestions regarding using hard
 wheat or soft wheat berries for frumenty (versus cracked wheat, bulgur
 wheat, or barley)? The question was raised last year by Chimene (but I
 wasn't here then), but I couldn't find an answer to it in Stefan's
 Florilegium (yes, I actually checked first, thus depriving Stefan of the
 opportunity to suggest....)
 
 Seumas >>

I have cooked barley and wheat berries together in a frumenty. The wheat 
needs to be soaked overnight to soften. The difference between hard and soft 
berries did not seem to be significant in the end result. I believe it "MAY" 
be a difference in when or where they are grown. Something about one grown in 
Alberta or Saskatchewan the other in Ontario????? This could be way off, but 
that's my immediate recollection. 

I'm working on the recipe for Clancy Day incorporating the above. I'll post 
it when it's ready.

Hauviette


Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:07:24 EST
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re:Frumenty

Hi everyone,

I contacted my apprentice sister (Ailknn Olafsdotter) who has made frumenty using barley and wheat berries and here is her recipes both for a small size and for feast size. Mind you she had lots left over, so I'd say this would stretch to about 100 gentles. Personally, I would increase the water almost by half again. I like my frumenty fairly wet. In addition, I would use pot barley vs pearl. Takes longer to cook but, works well within the period scope of things. 

Hope this helps the gentle looking for such recipes, 
Hauviette

Wheat berry and Barley Frumenty
2 GRAIN FRUMENTEY
                        serves 5          serves 75
Wheatberries                1/2 C.          8 C. (about 3.5 lbs)
Pearled barley              1/2 C.          8 C.  (4 lbs.)
Water, hot from tap       2 1/2 C.        40+ C.
Powdered Veg. Broth         1T.         1 1/2 C. (Frontier)
Salt                        1 t+            2 T+
Browned Onion-garlic Mixture
    Onions              1 lg. (1/2 lb)   8 lbs    
Garlic                 2 cloves     1 1/2 lg. bulbs       
oil                     1 T.        1 T. per 4C onions being sauteed    
Butter                  1 T.            as oil    
sugar                   pinch        pinch per batch sauteeing        

Cut onions in 1/4 and peel.  Slice in food processor.  In 4 C.
batches place in large frypan with 1T. oil and 1 T. butter.  Cover and cook
over med. heat for 10 to 15 min. to soften. uncover and toss with  about
1/2 t. sugar, turn up the heat and brown the onions, stirring constantly  or
it will burn. Spread out in a baking dish to cool and proceed with the next
batch.  When all onions are browned, mince the garlic.(food processor
works well)  and brown lightly in a little oil. Add garlic to all the
onions and mix well.  When all is cool package in Ziploc bags and freeze
until feast day.

To make Frumentey for 5 I used a Crock-Pot.  

Soak wheatberries in 3 C, water overnight, drain.  Place wheatberries, barley, water, Veg. powder, onion-garlic mixture and salt in the Crock-pot. Cook on Hi for 2 hrs and turn to low for 2 more. Check if there is enough water after about 3 hr

COOKING FOR A FEAST.

Day before the feast - Soak the wheatberries in 3 C. water per cup of berries
Day of the feast - 6 hours before feast    Drain wheatberries and place in an 18 Qt. electric roaster with 16C. hot tap water and  3/4 C powdered Veg. broth.  Cook at 300 for 2 hrs. Then add barley, 16 more cups hot tap water , 3/4 C. Powdered Veg. broth, the thawed onion-garlic mixture and salt. Cook 2 hrs  at 300.  Stir occasionally and add more water if necessary.  Adjust for salt.  Turn temp down to 200 when nearly done and hold until feast is served

NOTES: 1 lb pearl barley = 2 cups
     1 cup barley yields 3 1/2 cups cooked
     1 lb. wheatberries = 2 1/3 Cups      
     1 cup wheatberries yields 2 2/3 cups cooked

The 18 Qt electric roaster was full with one recipe for 75.    I served it right from the roaster on a buffet table to keep it warm

Looks like this copied OK but you will have to read carefullY because the
spacing got all messed up. 

Annette


Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:59:09 -0400
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Frumenty

One of the best frumenties I have ever made was with mixed grains, oats,
wheat, buckwheat, & rye, IIRC, and the texture was very good.  The key is
to cook the grains in a suitably seasoned stock, which imparts plenty of
flavor to the grains as they are cooked.   This eliminates the bland
porridge syndrome nicely.  I think of frumenty as being the porridge that
gets left on the hearth over night, so my vision of it would be pretty
well cooked.  My taste would be for some of the texture to remain. 

Christianna


From: rcmann4 at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:22:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: A Small Known World After All (Frumenty Comment)

On 12 May 01,, Elise Fleming wrote:
> What about an overnight cooking?  In a crockpot to minimize sticking
> to the pot?  Do we know whether cooks cooked up the grains that
> morning, or might it have been one of those things put on the side
> of the fire for a long, slow cooking?
>
> Alys Katharine

Nola has a recipe for boiled wheat, which I think is a frumenty
equivalent.  The cooking starts the night before.  Whole wheat
berries (with the outer hull removed) are washed, then boiled until
the grains burst.  The cooked wheat is then removed from the fire
and allowed to sit over night in a covered dish.  In the morning, it is
put into a fresh pot and cooked again, then almond milk is added
to the mixture.

I assume that the overnight rest would allow the wheat to absorb
more moisture.  Long, slow cooking with a grain dish might be
difficult to achieve without scorching.  There's no indication how
long the second cooking lasts -- it may be only to reheat the wheat.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ruth Frey <ruthf at uidaho.edu>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Frumenty.

	<Alys Katharine wrote:>
> What about an overnight cooking?  In a crockpot to minimize sticking
> to the pot?  Do we know whether cooks cooked up the grains that
> morning, or might it have been one of those things put on the side
> of the fire for a long, slow cooking?

	Actually, some of the recipes do mention pulling the
wheat off the fire and letting it sit for a while before adding
the milk and re-cooking it.  I found that does make a difference;
I got a good redaction down that worked OK done "straight", but
for my tournament entry, I cooked the wheat early in the morning
(so I wouldn't have the 2-hour prep time at the event), let it
sit in the fridge at the site for about 6 hours, then added the
milk and did the final cooking just before the tournament.  The
texture was noticably smoother and creamier, so sitting really
is a Good Thing for this recipe (though not necessary for an
edible result).
	Another thing that helped was trying another variety
of wheat; living in prime wheat-growing territory means I can
actually pick and choose.  I was working with 2 varieties,
"hard red" and "soft white."  Preliminary tests didn't show
a whole lot of difference between the two -- both cooked
to edibility in 45 minutes with 3 cups of water, with no real
difference in taste or texture.  However, with the longer
cooking times needed to get a nice, soft frumenty texture,
the soft white cooked considerably faster and absorbed much
more water than the hard red.  So, it pays to experiment.

		-- Ruth


Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:57:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ruth Frey <ruthf at uidaho.edu>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Frumenty.

	Lady Brighid wrote:

> Nola has a recipe for boiled wheat, which I think is a frumenty
> equivalent.  The cooking starts the night before.  Whole wheat
> berries (with the outer hull removed) are washed, then boiled until
> the grains burst.  The cooked wheat is then removed from the fire
> and allowed to sit over night in a covered dish.  In the morning, it is
> put into a fresh pot and cooked again, then almond milk is added
> to the mixture.
>
> I assume that the overnight rest would allow the wheat to absorb
> more moisture.  Long, slow cooking with a grain dish might be
> difficult to achieve without scorching.  There's no indication how
> long the second cooking lasts -- it may be only to reheat the wheat.

	See my above post -- the extra "sitting" time *does*
increase water absorption, and improves the texture.  So that's
right on.  For my cow's milk recipe, the second cooking is necessary
to thicken the mixture and get the right texture (again, as
mentioned in the historical recipes).

			-- Ruth


From: grizly at mindspring.com
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 23:15:07 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Frumenty.

> Lady Brighid wrote:
<<SNIP>>> I assume that the overnight rest would allow the wheat to absorb
> more moisture.  Long, slow cooking with a grain dish might be
> difficult to achieve without scorching.  There's no indication how
> long the second cooking lasts -- it may be only to reheat the wheat.

See my above post -- the extra "sitting" time *does*
increase water absorption, and improves the texture.  So that's
right on.  For my cow's milk recipe, the second cooking is necessary
to thicken the mixture and get the right texture (again, as
mentioned in the historical recipes).

-- Ruth > > > >

you'll probably find that part of the textural benfit is from the gelatinization of the starches due to long sit times in hot/warm moist environs.  Once the berries burst, and let the starches into the mix, the heat and moisture will basically dissolve or loosen the strands.  Gives a smoother and creamier texture.  Same concept in premise occurs when you malt and mash grains for brewing.  The different strains and varieties will have different levels of the enzymes needed to do the gematinizing . . . different temps and different hold times for each to get same effect.  ruth found that with the hard and soft varieties.

My wondering is which would have been more common among which people's/times . . . harder or softer wheats.  My guess is that it would be regional and seasonal. and that many of today's grains are so engineered and hybridized that they lose any resemblance to 13th century Southern english wheat.  Did your research uncover anything on the available varieties, Ruth?

pacem et bonum,
niccolo difrancesco


Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ruth Frey <ruthf at uidaho.edu>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Frumenty recipe, finally!  (Was: Congrats)

	Anyway the recipe I came up with is:

	1 c. wheat berries
	3 - 4 c. water
	1 c. whole milk
	1 1/2 - 2 tsp sugar
	1/8 tsp. salt, or to taste
	pinch saffron, to taste.

	Pick over and rinse the wheat, then bring wheat
and water to a boil; reduce heat to medium, and simmer,
covered, for approx. 1 1/2 - 2 hours, depending on the type
of wheat used.  Check occasionally, and add more water as
needed.
	When the wheat kernels have broken open and are
soft, they can be removed from the heat and allowd to sit,
to improve the texture (as noted in previous posts), or
you can continue directly with fairly good results.
	Add the milk to the wheat, bring to a simmer,
and cook uncovered, stirring frequently, until the mixture
is thickened (about 20 min.) -- towards the end, you will
probably need to be stirring the stuff constantly, to keep
it from burning.
	At the end of cooking, stir in the sugar, salt, and
saffron.  I've found a brief "sit" before serving is
beneficial here, too, as it allows the color and flavor to
be gently extracted from the saffron.
	After the frumenty has sat and cooled for a few
minutes, stir to distribute the saffron, and serve warm
(though, when our tournament ran overtime on Sunday, it
ended up being served rather lukewarm, and people still liked
it).

Notes on ingredients:

	Wheat: I used a "soft white" wheat, which cooks
more quickly than the "hard red" that was my other option.
The white wheat cooked to tenderness in about 1 1/2 hours,
and absorbed a prodigous amount of water (I ended up adding
several cups' worth above and beyond the 4 cups I started out
with).  As noted in other posts, it turns out that the soft
wheat is probably closer to Period wheat than the hard, another
bonus.  I went for whole wheat berries rather than the cracked
wheat often used in book redactions; I believe the beating of the
wheat in a mortar listed in all the extant recipes refers only
to the removal of hulls, since there is no way that cracked
grain can "break" or "burst" when it's sufficiently cooked
(another universal feature of the recipes).

	Milk: I used grocery-store whole milk for a creamy,
but not too-creamy texture.  Period milk would likely have
had more cream in it, though one recipe that I didn't use as
a source (in _The Medieval Kitchen_, can't recall the authors
at the moment) cautions one to remove a lot of the cream from
the milk used, to avoid curdling of the frumenty.  So the
actual type of milk used historically is open to debate.

	Sugar: For test redactions, I used commercial white
sugar; for the final recipe, I used unrefined cane sugar, of
the type sold in solid cones at Mexican groceries.  The cane
sugar has a nice "brown sugar" flavor, and is less agressively
sweet than white sugar (I used 2 tsp. of cane sugar to get the
same effect as 1 1/2 tsp. white sugar).  I figured this would
be closest to the sugar that would have been used in Period;
refined white sugar was available, but expensive, and often
cooks had to do the refining themselves.  White sugar was
mostly prized for its color and was usually used as a topping
to show it off.  I figured that since the color of the sugar
wouldn't be seen against the colors of the wheat and saffron,
there was no reason to use the really good stuff.

	Salt: For test preps, I used regular table salt; for
the final version, I used "fleur de sel" sea salt, supposedly
one of the finest hand-harvested grades to come out of
Brittany (assuming my supplier is above-board).  No noticeable
difference in the finished product, though apparently the
snob value impressed the judges.  :)  Admittedly, fleur de
sel is such lovely white stuff, it probably would have been used
as table salt, while a less-refined grade would have been used
in the recipe itself, where appearance would be unimportant.

	Saffron: I used genuine Spanish saffron, just enough to
give the dish a faint saffron color and flavor (mostly to prove
the stuff was in there); I have no idea how much would have been
added in Period.  It might have been based on how much saffron
one had, how much one wanted to impress guests, what other food
was being served, etc.

	Some recipes also add egg yolks to thicken the dish
at the end; since that can affect the "keeping" time of the
dish negatively, and since I thought the stuff might have to
sit a while before it was eaten, I skipped that ingredient.
	Also, some recipes call for boiling water or broth
to be added at the time of serving (possibly to thin out the
frumenty a little?), but the extant recipes are not clear
if the broth/water is to be added to the frumenty, the
accompanying meat, or both.  Also, the step is not listed
in all the recipes.  Since I wasn't sure, I skipped it.

	Sadly, I didn't have the time or money to cook up
roast beef or meat to go with this, but at our potluck feast,
the frumenty went quite nicely with the roasted chicken someone
else brought.

References:

	Heiatt, Constance, _An Ordnance of Pottage_, as cited
on the godecookery.com website. (One original source recipe,
for frumenty and porpoise in Lent).

	Heiatt, Constance, et al., _Pleyn Delit_ (One original
source recipe, that helpfully mentions that either cow's milk
*or* almond milk is acceptable, thus bridging the 2 types of
recipes).

	Renfrow, Cindy, _Take a Thousand Eggs or More, vol. 2_
(4 original source recipes -- 2 for frumenty with porpoise,
2 for frumenty with venison -- from 2 different manuscripts.)

	Depending on how you count, 4 or 6 original sources.

	Sorry the citations are so brief -- I don't have the
books here at work with me, and only remember the titles and
authors at the moment (though I'm sure lots of folks here are
familiar with them).

	And that's the winning recipe.  Simple, rather time-
intensive, but tasty.  :)

			-- Ruth


Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:25:33 -0500
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Frumenty Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Susan Fox wrote:
> You seem to have asked the same question in 1999, looking for
> something earlier than Robert May "The Accomplish'd Cook" c. 1660.
> Lady Brighid ni Chiarain answered that there was a Spanish recipe with
> sugar and cinnamon but did not cite it directly.
>
> Selene C.

There are several boiled grain dishes that are topped with sugar and
cinnamon, but as they are 16th c., and she asked for 14th c. recipes...

Frumenty is usually of porridge-like consistency.  If you don't mind
something smoother, there's a recipe in The Anonymous Venetian (14th/15
c. Italian).  It's for "Amidono of Starch", made with wheat starch,
sugar, almond milk, cloves, and pine nuts.

Here's a link to Mistress Helewyse's translation:
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libro.html#I.%20Amidono%20of

If 15th c. will do, there's a sweetened frumenty recipe in the Liber
Cure Cocorum.
Here are the relevant lines, at the end of the recipe:

"With sugur candy, þou may hit dowce,
If hit be served in grete lordys howce.
Take black sugur for mener menne;
Be ware þer with, for hit wylle brenne

The full recipe (and the rest of the cookbook) is on Thomas Gloning's
website:
http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/lcc3.htm
-- 
Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:52:13 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Frumenty Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

SilverR0se at aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of a sweetened frumenty recipe from before 1600? I found one
> for 1653 but I need one from the 14th century, if such exists. The  
> early recipes I've seen call for milk, eggs and saffron but no sugar.
>
> Renata

Ancient Cookery which is in the Warner edition of the
Antiquitates Culinariae (1791) includes

Furmentee
Take qwete[wheat] ftreyned, that is for to fay broften (bburft), and alay hit
with godefwete mylk, and boyle hit, and ftere hit well, and put therto fugre;
and colour hit with faffron; and for a lorde put no brothe therto, but
put therto a few zolkes of eyren beten, and ftere hit wel that hit quayle
noght (stir it well that it does not curdle); and when it is fothen
ferve hit forthe.

406  page 81 Prospect Books facsimile 1981.

The recipes are dated circa 1425. The manuscript is the Arundel 334.
Most sources are wrong and number it as AR 344. If one doesn't have Warner, one
can find the recipes in the 1790 edition of the Household Ordinances.
That was published as a microfilm in 1975.

Johnnae


Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:00:19 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Frumenty Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Another version that includes sugar may be found in the
Sloane Manuscript 1986.

7. Frumenty

Take wheat, and pick it fair ... snipped

With sugar candy <http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/lcc/parallel.html#f21>,
you may sweeten it,
If it is served in [a] great lord's house.
Take black sugar for meaner men;
Beware therewith, for it will burn.

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lcc/parallel.html#r7

This is from the parallel translation of the Liber cure Cocorum.
It's the work of our own Cindy Renfrow.
The dating of the manuscript is 1440.

Johnnae


Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:44:03 -0700
From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sweet frumenty recipes...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Funny how life works, sometimes....There I was, sitting at my kitchen table,
looking through my brand-new copies of _Take a Thousand Eggs_ (which I got
as a late Holiday present from a dear friend), looking for Lenten ideas, and
what do I find in the fish section of volume two but recipes for sweet
frumenty! <g>  Both examples, interestingly, occur in the context of being
served with porpoise.  The first comes from Harleian MS 4016, and the
second, from Harlein MS 279, and they are found on pages 400-401 in the
second volume of Cindy's books.

The first recipe has you make an almond milk with water, which you combine
with cleaned and partially-cooked wheat.  Later, you add sugar, saffron and
salt, and serve it with porpoise that has been prepared as one would salmon,
and boiled in fair water.

The second recipe is virtually identical, lacking only the salt.
It would be interesting, I think, to go through the various sources in which
frumenty and similar grain dishes appear, and see if the seasonings shift
with the type of meat that the grain is to accompany.  Without,
unfortunately, knowing anything extensive about humoral theory, I'd wonder
if the different seasonings had anything to do with balancing the meat,
since porpoise (which they considered a fish) would have had different
humoral qualities than venison, which is what I'd normally associate
frumenty with. 

The other frumenties I've seen all seem to have had pepper
in them, and egg yolks (although the lack of egg in the porpoise recipes
could be attributed to their use in Lent).

I'm going to add the recipes to my Lenten options, although I think I'll
serve it with salmon instead! <g> Does anyone know what kind of wheat would
be most appropriate? A hard winter wheat? something softer?

--Maire, off to go get ready for work....


Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:59:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: AmberRaven <gwyneth_de at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] ANCIENT AND PERIOD RECIPES LINK
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org, amberraven Thompson
	<gwyneth_de at yahoo.com>

For a tried and tested recipe for frumenty complete with modern  
redactions you may like to take a look at:

http://www.history.uk.com/recipes/index.php?archive=8

www.history.uk.com

======
Recipes for frumenty are found in just about every
medieval European cookbook, dating back to 1300.
Normally the frumenty recipes call for wheat, but
other grains such as oats were also used (alone or in
combination). Most commonly in medieval menus,
frumenty was served with venison.

I have Cariadoc's recipe for frumenty on the website
at:

http://www.medievalcookery.com/recipes/frumenty.shtm

If you'd like other examples of the medieval source
recipes, let me know and I'll dig them up.

- Doc


Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:28:10 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ANCIENT AND PERIOD RECIPES LINK
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

If I might be so bold, the modern adaptations of frumenty are actually wheat
polenta (the word first being used in English around 1000 CE).  Frumenty is
made from whole grain, while polenta is made from crushed grain or meal.
The use of bulgar or cracked wheat is a cheat to expedite the cooking and
does not produce the "frogs egg" effect of frumenty.

Frumenty mostly refers to whole, hulled wheat grains.  Polenta initially was
applied to barley, both whole and crushed, but was being commonly used to
describe any boiled grain meal by the time of Apicius.  Porridge primarily
referred to a dish of oatmeal, but was also used to describe other cooked
grain meals.  I suspect the definitions became more generalized over time.

It might be interesting to compare the various recipes and word  
usages over time.

Bear


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:15:33 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] kitchen tips
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

From: "Antonia Calvo" <ladyadele@paradise.net.nz>
<<< I've made milk-and-wheat frumenty at a feast, but it's kind of a pain...
if you don't stir it constantly, it catches and burns.  But now, I'm
wondering if you can cook that in the oven...?  After all, it works  
with rice. >>>

With perhaps some sacrifice to authenticity, for heavy production  
purposes, equal parts Wheatena (or other equivalent whole wheat cereal  
such as fine bulgur) and Cream of Wheat are your friends. They cook  
quickly and can even finish cooking off the flame in their own  
residual heat in a large pot. You can then whisk the bejabbers out of  
it, add milk, yolks, or whatever. The end result is, if not totally  
indistinguishable from the real, slow-cooked article, sure ain't  
Minute Rice...

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:23:46 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] kitchen tips
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

If the recipe under discussion is the one I'm thinking of, the frumenty is 
wheat berries cooked in milk or cream.  It has a decidedly different texture 
from frumenties made with meal or farina.

Bear

<<< With perhaps some sacrifice to authenticity, for heavy production 
purposes, equal parts Wheatena (or other equivalent whole wheat cereal 
such as fine bulgur) and Cream of Wheat are your friends. They cook 
quickly and can even finish cooking off the flame in their own  residual 
heat in a large pot. You can then whisk the bejabbers out of  it, add 
milk, yolks, or whatever. The end result is, if not totally 
indistinguidhable from the real, slow-cooked article, sure ain't  Minute 
Rice...

Adamantius >>>


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:20:45 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] kitchen tips
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

On Aug 22, 2008, at 1:23 AM, Terry Decker wrote:
<<< If the recipe under discussion is the one I'm thinking of, the  
frumenty is wheat berries cooked in milk or cream.  It has a  
decidedly different texture from frumenties made with meal or farina. >>>

Most of the recipes I've seen involve the grains being cooked in water  
until they burst and release their starch; then it's generally cooked  
further, and very slowly, with milk, then eggs and things like saffron  
are added near the end of the process. Perhaps it's a matter of  
interpretation, but if done right, there's not a lot of easily  
discernible wheat berry structure left by the time you're done.

Using whole wheat berries will leave more fibrous berry structure in  
the mass, and there is a difference between that process and using  
coarsely-ground grain, but the difference is not huge, and since using  
coarse-ground grain is faster, less likely to burn, and also more  
appealing to many people (in my own experience, anyway), it's not a  
bad option when cooking for 400 people.

If I were doing a small quantity and authenticity were my main  
priority, rather than one of many, I'd use whole wheat berries.

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:26:20 -0700
From: Lilinah <lilinah@earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Frumenty
To: sca-cooks@ansteorra.org

I've only made frumenty once, at my very first feast. I cooked the 
wheat first, until it burst. Then i stirred in the eggs, saffron, and 
milk.

Original:
To make frumente
Take clene whete & braye yt wel in a morter tyl the holes gon of; 
sethe it til it breste in water. Nym it vp & lat it cole. Tak good 
broth & swete mylk of kyn or of almand & tempere it therwith. Nym 
3elkys of eyren rawe &amp; saffroun & cast therto; salt it; let it 
nau3t boyle after the eyren ben cast therinne. Messe it forth with 
venesoun or with fat motoun fresch.
from: Forme of Cury, late 14th century

My paraphrase:
To make frumenty
Take clean wheat & bray it well in a mortar till the hulls come off.
Seethe it till it bursts in water. Take it up & let it cool.
Take good broth & sweet milk of cow or of almond & temper it therewith.
Take yolks of raw eggs & saffron & cast thereto; salt it; let it not 
boil after the eggs [have] been cast therein.
Mess it forth with venison or with fat fresh mutton.

What We Did:
- We cooked the wheat in water in several rice cookers, dumping each 
potfull into a large pan when done.
- While the wheat was cooking, we soaked the saffron in the vegetable 
broth and cow's milk.
- When the wheat was all cooked, we beat the eggs and stirred them 
into a little broth in a separate bowl.
- Then we added the major portion of broth, milk, and saffron to the 
pot of cooked wheat. No, it wasn't really cool, as the recipes 
directs, but it wasn't completely hot, either.
- We brought it to a simmer, not a boil, on medium heat, stirring, 
from time to time until bubbles just began to form around the edge of 
the pot.
- As soon as that happened we turned the heat down to low.
- Then we tempered the eggs with some of the hot liquid in the pot - 
i do this by adding just a little hot liquid at a time, so the eggs 
don't "cook"/curdle, and until they are quite warm.
- Then we slowly poured the tempered eggs into the wheat, stirring constantly.
- We continued cooking, stirring constantly, until the liquid and 
eggs were absorbed.
- Because the broth was salted, we didn't add salt, but i tasted it 
when it was nearly done, to see if it needed salt - i don't recall if 
it did... but if it does, it's good to add the salt before it gets 
too thick, so it can be evenly distributed.
- When it was thick, we took it off the stove, set it on a heat-proof 
counter with a lid on.

Didn't burn it.
But didn't serve it with venison or fresh mutton, either. It was 
served with roast pork legs with three sauces, salat, and two 
vegetable dishes.

This way it was quite pleasantly creamy and soft, and fairly tasty 
for frumenty (not the tastiest dish, IMO).
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:38:12 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Frog's eggs?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

======
I've made milk-and-wheat frumenty at a feast, but it's kind of a pain...
if you don't stir it constantly, it catches and burns.  But now, I'm
wondering if you can cook that in the oven...?  After all, it works with
rice.
--
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo

Frog's eggs?  I've done it a couple of times.  It's a pain to make, but
crock pots have worked well for me.

Bear
=======

Huh? What do "Frog eggs" have to do with this? What do you mean by  "it"? 
Frog's eggs or frumenty?

Stefan the perplexed >>>>

There is a recipe for frumenty that uses wheat berries cooked in milk or 
cream.  The result is a slightly gelatinous mass that resembles frogs eggs, 
which gives them the nick-name. frogs eggs.

Bear 


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:42:02 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] kitchen tips
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

There are versions of the recipes that call for oven baking until soft 
at 250 degrees.
I would guess timing out a huge quantity would be a problem plus it ties
up oven space. Maybe roasters would do???
The last time I made it we used crock pots and we didn't make that much.
You don't always find recipes that cook in the milk.
A number of modern/traditional recipes call for soaked wheat berries to 
be simmered in fresh water. The soaking produces creed wheat and that gelantinous mass is then used to make the frumenty.
The milk/cream can then be added and it's sweetened and then again baked 
or boiled.

Dorothy Hartley gives a recipe that says "Boyle hit tylle hit brest 
(burst) then; Let hit down, as I thee kenne. Take new mylke, and play hit up.
Till hit be thykkerede to sup."

There's a foodie post with pictures and a discussion at:
http://adambalic.typepad.com/the_art_and_mystery_of_fo/2008/03/frumenty.html

Johnnae

<<< With perhaps some sacrifice to authenticity, for heavy production 
purposes, equal parts Wheatena (or other equivalent whole wheat 
cereal such as fine bulgur) and Cream of Wheat are your friends. They 
cook quickly and can even finish cooking off the flame in their own  
residual heat in a large pot. You can then whisk the bejabbers out 
of  it, add milk, yolks, or whatever. The end result is, if not 
totally indistinguidhable from the real, slow-cooked article, sure 
ain't  Minute Rice...

Adamantius >>>


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:47:06 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] kitchen tips
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

The dish I'm thinking of takes hours to prepare, which is why burning is a 
problem.  The wheat berries get very soft and swell but retain their shape 
inside a translucent white gel of milk and starch, ergo "frogs eggs."  Great 
taste, but it's not a practical dish for large feasts, as you say.

Bear 


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:39:58 -0700
From: edoard@medievalcookery.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] kitchen tips
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

From: Antonia Calvo
<<< I've made milk-and-wheat frumenty at a feast, but it's kind of a pain... 
if you don't stir it constantly, it catches and burns.  But now, I'm 
wondering if you can cook that in the oven...?  After all, it works with 
rice. >>>

I've tried making frumenty in the oven, and it does work with cracked
wheat (see notes at URL below).  I didn't change the water ratio at all
(2 water : 1 grain), but I did have to cook it a *lot* longer (2 hours
as opposed to 15 minutes).  So if oven space is plentiful and you're
making absolutely huge batches, then this may be the way to go.

Frumenty
http://recipes.medievalcookery.com/frumenty.html

For the feast I'm cooking in two weeks I'll probably use the oven
method, but I may try using roasters instead.

- Doc


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:04:31 -0400
From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] kitchen tips
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

I wonder if using slow cookers would work...there are liners that can be
purchased for them that make cleanup a walk in the park...remove the liner
and throw it away!!  I did a wheatberry soup for the Middle Eastern feast
using them...I had two large ones and a smaller one...and borrowed another.
This made enough soup to feed 120 people.  It worked very well and gave the
wheatberries plenty of time to soften and expand the way they were supposed
to.  I did this in advance, and simply reheated the soup on the day of the
event.

Kiri


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:32:51 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae@mac.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Frumenty recipe
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

Here's an interesting historic recipe for the dish.

Frumenty. Wash well a pint of best wheat, and soak for twenty-four
hours in water just sufficient to cover. Put the soaked wheat in a
covered earthen baking pot or jar, cover well with water, and let it
cook in a very slow oven for twelve hours. This may be done the day
before it is wanted, or if one has a coal range in which a fire may be
kept all night, or an Aladdin oven, the grain may be started in the
evening and cooked at night. When desired for use, put in a saucepan
with three pints of milk, a cupful of well-washed Zante currants, and
one cup of seeded raisins. Boil together for a few minutes, thicken with
four tablespoonfuls of flour rubbed smooth in a little cold milk, and serve.

What makes this recipe interesting is that it appears under
//MISCELLANEOUS BREAKFAST DISHES //in the book
  Science in the Kitchen., by Mrs. E. E. Kellogg.

She is described as "Superintendent of the Sanitarium School of Cookery
and of the Bay View Assembly School of Cookery, and Chairman of the
World's Fair Committee on Food Supplies, for Michigan. 1893"

The book in the foreword promises
"Those who have made themselves familiar with Mrs. Kellogg's system of
cookery, invariably express themselves as trebly astonished: first, at
the simplicity of the methods employed; secondly, at the marvelous
results both as regards palatableness, wholesomeness, and
attractiveness; thirdly, that it had never occurred to them "to do this
way before. This system does not consist simply of a rehash of what is
found in every cook book, but of new methods, which are the result of
the application of the scientific principles of chemistry and physics to
the preparation of food in such a manner as to make it the most
nourishing, the most digestible, and the most inviting to the eye and to
the palate."

So creating frumenty in this matter is a new method based on
scientific principles?!? (The book also contains a lot of recipes for
toast.)

The entire book is available here
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12238/12238-h/12238-h.htm

Johnnae


Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:29:00 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Frog's eggs addendum
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org>

Some actual Italian recipes for the dish can be found at
Baroness Helewyse's website.

A recipe that Baroness Helewyse translated from the Italian
Libro di cucina/ Libro per cuoco (14th/15th c.) (Anonimo Veneziano)reads:
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libro.html

*XXIV Maize dish (Frumenty) good and very useful.*
If you want to make frumenty, take the wheat berries, and grind/beat it 
well until the husk lifts, then wash it well. Put it to boil in water, 
but don?t boil it too much, then pour away the water. Then add inside 
the fat of whichever animal you wish, and you want to make sure that you 
don?t add too much. Add sweet and strong spices, and saffron, and if you 
don?t have wheat then you can take rice, and it will be good.

Based on previous discussions here on SCA Cooks, she also did a paper 
titled on coarse wheat dishes as found in Scappi.

Period Italian Maize recipes 
<http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/maize.html>- There are three recipes 
in Scappi which use a grain referred to as "formentone" which has been 
identified as maize by Italian culinary historians. Currently there is 
still some doubt about this identification. My doubts notwithstanding 
the three recipes are transcribed and translated here.

Johnnae

Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:

On Aug 22, 2008, at 1:33 PM, Christiane wrote:

<<< This sound a lot like cuccia:
http://splendidtable.publicradio.org/recipes/main_cuccia.shtml
Of the recipes I have found, I like the last one the best for being 
the most "medievaloid." >>>
Do you think the Italian cheesecake with the soaked wheat berries 
eaten at Easter is meant to be made with cuccia as a filling, or is it 
just made with soaked wheat with coincidental resemblances to cuccia?

Adamantius 

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