fresh-cheeses-msg - 2/3/08 Fresh cheeses such as ricotta, cream cheese and cottage cheese. Non-aged cheeses. NOTE: See also the files: whey-cheeses-msg, cheese-msg, dairy-prod-msg, cheesemaking-msg, Cheese-Making-art, cheesemaking-msg, cheese-goo-msg, butter-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (kellogg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Period soft cheeses (was: Re: Is cheesecake period?) Date: 22 Oct 1996 17:12:26 GMT Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services Monica Cellio (mjc at telerama.lm.com) wrote: (attribution lost) wrote: : >Is cheesecake period? If so, when and where? : Cheese pies of various sorts are period, but not as sweets. The closest : thing I know of to dessert-grade cheese pies is from Digby (1669). The : closest approximation for the cheese is probably ricotta or farmer's cheese. : Cream cheese is modern. This thread aroused my curiousity, so I did some fairly extensive web searches. Cream cheese does seem to be an American original. Most cheese websites claim a great antiquity for cottage cheese, unfortunately without any references. The one soft cheese that I seem to have found a solid period reference to is ricotta. The Sugarplums...All About Cheese site at <URL: http://www.sugarplums.com/ fieryfeature/c.html> shows a print of a painting entitled "The Ricotta Eaters" by one Vincenzo Campi, who is listed as having lived between 1525 and 1591. Anyone know anything else about this painting or artist? Avenel Kellough Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 16:57:29 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - white drinks and other foods > I saw somewhere on the web that cream cheese was close to a period > cheese. Then I read that it was not in any way period. (It was a while > ago, but I thought it was on this list?) Is it indeed period? Perioid? > Angelique "Philadelphia style" cream cheese, as manufactured today, couldn't possibly be period for Western Europe, what with the Philadelphia appelation and the emulsifying gums used to keep the butterfat from leaking out at room temperature. On the other hand, it may resemble cheeses made from cream in period. Certainly there are references to "cream cheese" in, or very shortly after, period, but they mean just that. Cheese made with cream, and sometimes not only cream. Digby's Slipcote cheese is a good example of such a cheese, which, BTW, makes a smashing cheese for Savoury Toasted Cheese. Trouble is, that unless you go to England and can find someone who still makes York cheese, you have to make it yourself. Philly cream cheese really appears to be little more than "dairy sour" cream, a.k.a. sour cream or smetana, drained in a cloth, though. Of course, you'd need to determine the secret blend of eleven preservatives and chemicals in order to duplicate it exactly. My reason for mentioning all this is that it's likely that if one wanted to find a period cheese made from sour cream, the place to look would probably be Eastern Europe and Russia. It could also be that there is no non-factory made original. It may simply be a modern invention. For example, when trying to find Limburger cheese in its original form, as a wheel or block of cheese, with an edible rind of mold, which I sort of assumed because it tastes so much like Liederkranz, I discovered that for more than a century, Limburger has been made in the USA, by blending a mixture of different cheeses with cream. In other words, it's not that the original form is unavailable. It's that the stuff you can buy in the supermarket, in jars, IS the orginal form, more or less. The name, Limburger, is a German spelling of a place in Belgium, but the cheese appears to be American. IIRC, there is a recipe for cream cheese in Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book, which involves letting cream sour overnight, and then pouring it onto a large damask napkin, spreading it thinly. You leave it to drain, and then roll it up like Lady Aoife's favorite, cabbage cream. Adamantius Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:42:14 -0500 From: margali <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - Farmer's cheese - OT sorta > I have a recipe that call's for farmer's cheese. I have searched all > the grocery chains around here for it. But to no avail. >... > Or, is there a mixture I can make from two other cheeses that will end > up resembling farmer's cheese? > > Kateryn de Develyn > debh at microware.com take a collander, line it with gauze, drain a large container of cottage cheese mixed with the little one serving cup of unflavored yoghurt overnight, then press out the rest of the whey. margali Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:56:16 -0600 From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net> Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #442 Kathryn wrote: >I have a recipe that call's for farmer's cheese. I have searched all the grocery chains around here for it. But to no avail. > >What is it? >What is a reasonable substitute? >Can I use riccota? >Or dry-curd cottage cheese? >Or is it more closely related to something else? >Or, is there a mixture I can make from two other cheeses that will end up resembling farmer's cheese? > >Kateryn de Develyn >debh at microware.com Farmer's cheese is a rather plain, whole-milk cheese that is made "green" . Anticipating the questions, green cheese is not actually the color green. It is merely "unripened" or fresh. For farmer's cheese, rennet is used to make a large curd. The curds are pressed with salt sprunkled amongst them in the vate (cheese press). A Follower (press) and Weights are added to extract the extra whey. It sits like this for many hours and drips whey. When it is reasonably dry, you have plain green cheese or farmer's cheese. Modern store-bought cottage cheese is the closest you will get if you cannot find farmer's cheese (we can get it easily in N.E. Penna). However, be advised that cottage cheese is the above mentioned curds, cut smaller, with cream added back to them after draining from the whey and a short pressing---that cream is the "sauce" the curds are in. So you will either press the cottage cheese to remove the liquid, or you could reduce the overall liquid in your mixture. Curd cheese would be something like cottage cheese without the added liquid, or farmer's cheese without the pressing. Aoife Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:13:55 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Re: carrot pie and Spanish cheese And it came to pass on 13 Feb 99,, that david friedman wrote: > >and for each two pounds of chopped carrots [use] a pound of > >Trochon cheese and a pound and a half of buttery Pinto cheese, > >and six ounces of fresh cheese... > > This looks interesting. I'd be tempted to redact it myself, but my lord husband *loathes* cooked carrots. > I assume the fresh cheese would be similar to the > fresh cheese you get in the Mexican section of the grocery; any guesses > about Trochon or Pinto cheese? > Elizabeth/Betty Cook "Fresh cheese" (queso fresco) could also be translated as new cheese, if that helps. "Trochon" is actually Tronchon; there was a typo, for which I apologize. I found the following description at www.cheese.com: Tronchon Description: Traditional, creamery, semi-soft cheese made from blended cow's, goat's and sheep's milk. It has a shape of flattened globe with deep crater. The natural rind is smooth, glossy and it has a color of butter. Tronchon resembles a young Caerphilly. The taste is aromatic, with a background of white wine acidity. The origin of the shape is obscure but it is replicated today with moulds. The interior is bone white and has many small holes. Country: Spain Milk: cow ewe and goat milk Texture: semi-soft In a number of other recipes, the author suggests Parmesan as a substitute for Tronchon. I have not found any description of "queso de Pinto" anywhere on the Web. I do have access to a rather good import cheese shop near my workplace. Maybe I can get over there some time next week and inquire. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:41:56 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - cheese questions "Brian L. Rygg or Laura Barbee-Rygg" wrote: > Cream cheese is a late 19th-century American invention. > > Raoghnailt Yes and no. The bar of Philadelphia-style cream cheese, wrapped in silvery foil stuff, is as you describe. Cheeses made from cream, however, are considerably older. There are recipes for cream cheeses, IIRC, in Digby, possibly Hugh Plat, and Elinor Fettiplace's receipt book, all 17th century. The main difference between these and Philly cream cheese is the emulsifying gums added to the latter; whether a cooked dish calling for a period-style cream cheese would be massively different when made with the chemical stuff remains to be seen. Adamantius Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:01:40 -0700 From: "Brian L. Rygg or Laura Barbee-Rygg" <rygbee at montana.com> Subject: Re: SC - cheese questions I have made fresh cheese with lots of heavy cream, and the texture is not even close to the modern stuff. Raoghnailt Stan Wyrm, Artemisia Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:07:28 -0500 From: "catwho at bellsouth.net" <catwho at bellsouth.net> Subject: SC - Favorite Egg Recipe Well, this contains eggs (or at least the whites) but I love this! White Torta Platina book 8 Prepare a pound and a half of best fresh cheese, chopped especially fine. Add twelve or fifteen egg whites, half a pound of sugar, half an ounce of white ginger, half a pound of pork liquamen and as much fresh butter. Blend in as much milk as you need. When you have blended this, put it into a pastry crust rolled thin and put it all in a pan and set it to bake on the hearth with a gentle flame. Then, to give it color, put coals on the lid. When it is cooked and taken from the pan, sprinkle ground sugar over it, with rosewater. The interpretation as found in Cariodoc's Miscellany although I think that we used all butter or either half butter half shortening instead of the lard. 1 lb fresh cheese: ricotta 8 egg whites 2/3 c sugar 1/3 oz fresh ginger 1/4 lb lard 1/4 lb butter 1/2 c milk 10" pastry shell ~2 t sugar 1 t rosewater Beat egg whites to soft peaks. Soften butter and lard together at room temperature. Fold together cheese and egg whites, then add sugar, minced ginger, lard and butter. Mix until fairly uniform. Add milk, fill shell. Bake at 325deg. for 40 minutes. When oil separates, it is done. Put under broiler to brown top lightly. Sprinkle sugar and rosewater, spread on with spoon bottom. Cool until set. This is a little less butter and lard than Platina suggests, but we found it too fatty using his quantities. Melbrigda Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:29:22 -0400 From: "Bethany Public Library" <betpulib at ptdprolog.net> Subject: Re: SC - Herb blends for soft cheeses--a question Maire, try Dill and Chives, a great combination. Thinly sliced Scallions go well with this as well. I do this all the time. Sprigs of thyme, chopped oregano, marjoram, etc.. all go well. Try also Garlic and freshly ground pepper. Try them out at home first. You could also try serving it with sippets if you really want that cheese and cracker effect. Aoife Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:49:28 PDT From: "Bonne of Traquair" <oftraquair at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: SC - Herb blends for soft cheeses--a question > Documentation, please? > > Ras >From my 'celtic' feast last spring, this would be documentation for Ireland, IIRC. I'm pretty sure it was for fresh cheese with greenery/herbs, it might be curds. What I served was fresh, pressed but not aged cheese with chopped herbs mixed in. Samit Cheese (Fresh Cheese w/herbs) Source: Land of Milk and Honey: The Story of Traditional Irish Food and Drink, Brid Mahon, Poolbeg Press, Dublin, 1991 : pp. 4 (archeological evidence) 55(goat cheese), 91-2 (list of cheese types and names), 109 follow up: Aisling Meic Con Glinne--The Vision of Mac Conglinne, Kuno Meyer (trans) London, 1892, 5-113 I don't know what the refernce on pg 109 is, sorry. The follow up is a poem of a legendary host and the food in his lands, I have not gone back to it, but evidently learned from somewhere that cheese and or herbs are mentioned. I don't know if I ever posted my cleaned up menu and references for this, moving day was bearing down. If I did, I'm sure Stefan would have filed it away under Celtic food. If I didn't, Stefan let me know and I'll send it directly to you. I recall trying to post another set of my notes and lot's of people had format troubles. Bonne Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:54:36 -0800 From: "Bonne of Traquair" <oftraquair at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re: First feasts >> Mato (Sweetened goat cheese) >>Bonne >Is there a recipe for this dish? Olwen I have the recipe from Thomas Longshanks who is tranlating and slowly redacting each recipe in a spanish manuscript into a 'direct' recipe as well as a large quantity version made with more readily available ingredients, for use at feasts. He plans to publish this some day and asked me not to share his work. However, it is a simple idea: Fresh goat cheese,sugar, orange flower water or rose water. Mix. Eat. Die from pleasure. I served this with a bisket bread flavored with coriander seed in the Fettiplace book, which I don't have at hand. It had eggs, sugar, flour, crushed coriander seed, done up in the same manner as other bisket bread recipes. You can probably find one in the Miscellany or Florilegium. I didn't serve the cheese spread on the cakes as I had no documentable reason for that. But the presence of a dish of something spreadable and a stack of cakes nearby led to the inevitable, and it was good. Bonne Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:49:00 +0200 From: UlfR <parlei-sc at algonet.se> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Skyr? and intro Skyr is a form of fresh cheese that is mentioned in the Icelandic Sagas, and still eaten on Iceland. Nanna, being the lucky one, lives on Iceland where she can get hold of what is the real thing, baring any evolution/changes that hs taken place over the last 1000 years. Here in Sweden I have to make do with a substitute, which is the yogurt cheese. Basically take a suitably tart yogurt, and let it drain from a thin fabric bag. ISTR that Nanna has earlier posted direction for how to make the real thing, but you would need access to a live culture to do that. /UlfR From: "a5foil" <a5foil at ix.netcom.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cheese of Aragon? Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:26:13 -0400 > I am going to try some recipes of Libre del Coch for a Sca commons this > Friday. Does anyone know what Cheese of Aragon is?? It's in #50. <NOTE - See the file: Guisados1-art> > Andrea > Ostgardr Queso de Aragon is also known as Queso Tronchon. It definitely dates to the Middle Ages. It was originally a goat cheese, but is now made from a blend of cow and goat milk. It is served fresh or slightly aged, it comes from a ring mold with a depression in the middle, sort of a like a gelatine mold or bundt pan, but the center depression doesn't go all the way through. If you can't get it locally, try mail-order from a Spanish food store like www.tienda.com. If you want more info, let me know. Thomas Longshanks From: Nambeanntan at aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 02:51:47 EST To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] good soft cheese, not too old I found this on the net, it tells about new and not so new cheeses Cheese is commonly categorized by degree of hardness, ranging from soft and semisoft, to hard (or firm), very hard, and blue-veined cheeses. Within the soft cheese category there are soft, fresh cheeses and soft-ripened cheeses. Soft, fresh cheeses have a high moisture level, the most delicate flavor, and are the most perishable. A fresh cheese is unripened and retains much of the fresh milk flavor. (Unripened describes soft cheeses that aren't aged.) Some well-known fresh cheeses are ricotta, cottage cheese, cream cheese, feta, and mascarpone. Soft-ripened cheeses have been allowed to mature to various degrees. They also have a high moisture content, and though mild when young, they develop a fuller flavor as they age. They ripen inside of a powdery white rind. Brie and Camembert (which look and taste almost identical) are the most popular; they have a mild, earthy flavor that blends well with a host of other flavors. Annan From: "Barbara Benson" <vox8 at mindspring.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:16:10 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Angel's Food > As in "angel's food cake?" Do you know if anyone has a period recipe for it? > -- > David/Cariadoc I am terribly pleased to be of assistance to you good sir! I make angel's food frequently to take as "snackies" to events and share with friends. I usually bring along pizzelles and a tart jam/preserve to go with it. You smear the angel's food onto the pizzelle and then top with the preserve & it is quite tasty. I also tend to pack shrewsbury cakes and have one good friend who is in the habit of making a shrewsbury cake/angel's food oreo! Happy snacking, Serena da Riva Angel's Food Modern translation by THL Temair Carra Ingredients: 5 oz fresh Ricotta cheese 5 oz marscapone cheese 2 T sugar 2 T orange flower water (to taste) Mix cheeses with fork or whisk. Mix in sugar. Add a small amount of orange water and increase if needed (amount will depend on the concentration of the orange water). Do not use orange oil. Fluff before serving. Bibliography: Libra de Sent sovi (Catalan 1324 or before) Source: Menyar D'`ngels (con sa deu manyar matr cens bolir, o fformatges) Si vols menyar lo mato, prin lo matr e met-lo en lo morter; e pique'l be ab bon sucre blanc. E quant ser` picat, axeteu ab aygua-rrs ho naffa, e met-lo en gresals ho en escudelles ho ab qui.t vuylles; e drna-ho a menyar. E si no y volies metre sucre al piquar, met-hi de bona mel. E axm matex sse ffa cel fformatge ffresc, he diu-hi millor, e anomene's menyar d'`ngels. Translation: If you want to eat the fresh curds, put the curds in the mortar and pound with some good white sugar. And when pounded together, blend in some rosewater or orange-flower water, and put it in bowls or dishes or whatever you like; and serve it at table. And if you don't wish to use sugar, add some good honey. And you can do the same with fresh cheese, which is better, and it is called angel's food. Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:49:10 -0800 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: [Sca-cooks] Angels' Food - a dish for the Angels Here is a Dish for the Angels. It is from the Florilegium, from Ruperto de Nola's Libre del Coch, translated by Lady Brighid ni Chiarain. Is this "Angels food"? 12. DISH FOR THE ANGELS MANJAR DE ANGELES <snip - see Guisados1-art and Guisados2-art> Anahita Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:26:42 -0700 From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grains for Feast? - Menu question Generys ferch Ednuyed wrote: > Could I see the translation of the original recipe? I'd like to play with > the redaction too, as it sounds like another recipe I like... > > Generys I don't know what version Serena was using, but I found this one online at http://www.lewis-kappes.com/LK/Pompeiiana/AncientRomanFeasts/96on_dir/96on_35.htm Globes (Globi) Puffy little balls of cheese and flour, deep-fried in olive oil, soaked in honey, and sprinkled with poppy seeds "the best ancient "dough nuts" around 1 cup all-purpose flour 1/4 cup dry ricotta cheese 1/2 teaspoon dry yeast 1/2 cup water, lukewarm olive oil 1/2 cup honey 1/4 cup poppy seeds 1. Put the flour and cheese in a mixing bowl. Blend well with the finger tips until it has the consistency of corn meal. Mix in the dry yeast 2. Pour the water into the flour and cheese mixture and blend well. Let rest 3 minutes, then sprinkle with a little flour and knead until smooth and elastic. Do the kneading either on a lightly floured surface or in the bowl. 2. Return the dough to the bowl (if necessary). cover with a towel, and let rise 1 hour. 3. Remove the risen dough from the bowl and roll into a sausage shape 1-inch thick. Cut the dough into 10 pieces, roll each into a ball, and sprinkle lightly with flour. 4. Pour enough olive oil into a deep pan so that it will float the globes (about 1-1/2 inches deep). Heat the oil. Drop a few of the globes into the hot oil and cook until golden brown all over. Remove the globes when finished and drain the clinging oil. Cook the others. 5. Pour the honey into a bowl, and turn the globes in the honey until covered. Transfer to a serving plate, sprinkle with the poppy seeds, and serve when they have cooled. Note: Dry ricotta cheese is available at any Hickory Farms Store. : YIELD 10 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:12:08 EDT From: BaronessaIlaria at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Angel's Food To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org selene at earthlink.net writes: > I'm looking for the period citation for the sweet called "Angel's > Food," The one with sweetened ricotta cheese. It's from Sent Sovi. "Menyar D'Angels" or Angel's Food. "If you want to eat the fresh curds, put the curds in the mortar and pound with some good white sugar. And when pounded together, blend in some rosewater or orange flower water, and put it in bowls or dishes or whatever you like, and serve it at table. And if you don't wish to use the sugar, add some good honey. And you can do the same with fresh cheese, which is better, and it is called angel's food." The above is from Santich's The Original Mediterranean Cuisine. Ilaria Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:25:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: fresh cheese To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org > Huh! I redacted Sabina Welserin's > "Genovese Tart" recipe last 12th Night -- a savory > tart with spinach, "fresh cheese" (I used ricotta), > aged cheese (I used parmesan), and olive oil in a > pastry crust. <snip> I looked into the fresh cheese/ricotta issue a while ago, and pulled quite a few resources from several Italian manuscripts. You can see the articles at: http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/cheesenature.html There are also a number of recipes for pasta stuffings calling for fresh cheese at http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/stuffedpasta.html In Italy sometimes ricotta is specifically called for in a recipe, othertimes "fat cheese" or "fresh cheese" is called for. From my reading of the articles this seems to be fresh mozzarella or a farmers type cheese, rather than ricotta. Helewyse Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:51:32 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"? To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Now that I've had some coffee, I may be a little clearer. What you consider cheese depends on how tightly you adhere to the technical definition, which is "a food made from curd of milk seperated from the whey." Ricotta made by cooking the whey and condensing it, so under the technical definition, it isn't a cheese. It is called "cheese" because it resembles cheese. Picky, picky, picky, right? Fresh cheese is cheese which has not been fermented, which usually means a soft, unripened cheese (I can't think of any other kind of fresh cheese, but I haven't tried them all). In general, fresh cheese will taste sweeter And milder than other cheeses. Under the strict definition, ricotta (and cream cheese) aren't cheese at all. Most people, however, ignore the precise differences and consider them cheese. In the latter case, ricotta would be considered a fresh cheese. When fresh cheese is called for, I tend to use drained cottage cheese or fresh mozzarella (if I can find it), but I would use ricotta if it was what I had available. Bear > How can you tell it's ricotta as opposed to something else? > And while I'm definitely not an expert on anything, let alone foods or > cheese, I've always thought of ricotta as belonging in the fresh-cheese > category, if only because my brain has categorized fresh cheeses as > "those ones you have to refrigerate" vs., say a "cured" (?right word?) > cheese like cheddar or roquefort or something. Perhaps the confusion > lies in what we think of when we say a "fresh" cheese? > --maire's two pence worth.... > > Terry Decker wrote: >> I'd say your cheesemaker is correct. Ricotta is a condensed whey product >> and definitely not fresh cheese. That being said, there is a 16th Century >> painting of formed ricotta being eaten by a group of people from a plate >> using spoons. >> >> Bear >> >> I'm curious to get responses from this group -- >> how appropriate is ricotta as a "fresh cheese" >> substitute in redactions, in your opinion? Thought >> I might hear from some more cheese-knowledgeable >> folks than myself. After all, blessed are the >> cheesemakers. ;) :) >> >> -- Ruth Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:16:09 -0400 From: "chirhart_1" <chirhart_1 at netzero.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"? To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> But you are "Making Cheese" you do not just use the Whey only, You add milk to the whey Heat it to temperature 160 to 180 ,add vinegar which precipitates "New Curds" to form from milk added , to which the small already made cheese particles addhear to.So actually you are making cheese. Not a lot, but some. Chirhart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> > What you consider cheese depends on how tightly you adhere to the technical > definition, which is "a food made from curd of milk seperated from the > whey." Ricotta made by cooking the whey and condensing it, so under > the technical definition, it isn't a cheese. Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:45:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"? To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Greetings, Ruth. This gentleman sounds like a person I'd love to talk cheese with! :) My opinion: I feel Ricotta is entirely appropriate as a fresh cheese, cheese made from whey is still cheese. Ricotta, in particular, is actually the remaining bits of milk fats and protein that were not gotten in the previous coagulation which are coagulated and strained out of the whey. A whey cheese that I would feel is not fresh cheese is Gjetost, cooked down and carmelized whey. Gjetost keeps very well and so is rarely sold fresh, but it can be made fresh if you have the time to stand over your pot and stir. <G> I did that once and once was enough! Ricotta must be made from freshly made whey, a by-product of making a fuller-fat cheese, no more than one hour old - and it only lasts for a short period of time. It was such a widely used cheese in period that they tried to find ways to preserve it longer. One method was by salting and pressing as much of the moisture out of it, this is Ricotta Salata. There is also a smoked version. Another method was to drain it further in baskets and to age it, allowing the moisture to dry out of the cheese. This is called Ricotta Stagionata and is used for grating. Other fresh cheeses that are good choices are cottage cheese, quark, young slipcoat cheese, straight curds, neufchatel (french cream cheese), and yogurt. Also, cheeses can be eaten at any point in their aging cycle. That batch of gouda that you just took out of the press is considered a young/fresh cheese, until it begins to form its rind. There are only a few of the cheeses that can only be eaten fresh as they do not age at all due to their high whey content (see those listed above). It's the whey that causes a cheese to go bad as it is a prime breeding ground for mold spores. Cheese is a living, breathing creature and has a life-cycle just as we do. They begin young and fresh, age a bit to have a rind and a mild somewhat moist or elastic paste, then they begin to get a thicker rind and a dryer paste, and if you can stand to wait for a year or longer the paste will become grainy and more and more dried out. Parmesan is aged for a minimum of two years before it is released by the affineur (cheese ager). Eibhlin Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"? To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Actually, anytime you add a culture to a cheese it starts the fermentation process, as the enzymes begin to transform the liquid milk into a solid mass. That would include cottage cheese, quark, and neufchatel. If you consider that fresh cheese is only curds that have been separated from the whey without any form of fermentation, that pretty much limits it to straight curds precipitated out of the whey using a form of acid. Eibhlin West Kingdom Cheesemaker's Guild Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:51:58 -0500 To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"? It's worth noting that you can buy stuff called "fresh cheese" in Spanish in some grocery stores--Quesa Fresca I think (but I don't know Spanish). You can also get something similar in Middle Eastern grocery stores. My guess is that that's closer than ricotta. But a cheese expert I'm not. -- David/Cariadoc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:28:48 -0700 From: "Patricia Collum" <pjc2 at cox.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"? To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> The Queso Fresca I have used is a very fine curd, mild flavored fresh cheese more similar in texture to the cheese we made fresh with lemon juice and whole milk on the stove top, without the lemony flavor. Cecily (in Atenveldt) ----- Original Message ----- From: "david friedman" <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> > It's worth noting that you can buy stuff called "fresh cheese" in > Spanish in some grocery stores--Quesa Fresca I think (but I don't > know Spanish). You can also get something similar in Middle Eastern > grocery stores. My guess is that that's closer than ricotta. But a > cheese expert I'm not. > -- > David/Cariadoc Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:23:13 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"? To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> "Cream cheese" is a soft, fresh cheese usually made, I think (can't find the cheese cookbook to verify) with a rennet. And it's probably got the highest fat content of the three--ISTR a number of different variations in my cheese book that had varying milk/cream ratios. "Ricotta" is made from the whey that's left over after you make cheese. I think it has to be done with fresh whey, as well. Most recipes I've seen have you add some milk to the whey, to increase output. One heats the fresh whey to a certain temperature and (I think) adds an acid (vinegar?), which precipitates the little ricotta curds. The third cheese is NOT made with either a whey or a rennet, but with milk (usually whole) and lemon juice. I think my book refers to it as a "bag cheese," because it's one of the ones you hang up in a bag of cheesecloth to let the extra whey drip out. It's a fairly soft, fresh cheese as well. I can always taste the lemon juice, so I don't normally make it, although it might be really nice in cheesecake. I like to make bag cheese using whole milk and vinegar.... As far as the browning goes in Katira's post, I'm assuming that she made the same dish 3 times, each with a different cheese, and that it was the dish that was browned. --maire "Harris Mark.S-rsve60" wrote: > Katira commented: >>>> > I once made an entry for a 'Spoon' (cooking) contest > that called for fresh cheese. I made three versions > and submitted them all for the judges to taste. Cream > cheese, ricotta cheese and my own fresh cheese (milk > and lemon juice). > <<< > Okay, even with the recent discussion I'm a bit confused about the > differences between these three types of cheese. Can someone summarize > these? The ricotta uses the whey and rennet? The cream cheese uses > cream and rennet? And the other uses milk (regular? reduced fat? and > lemon juice? > >>>> > I couldn't tell the difference myself except a vague > difference in the coloring of the browned tops, yet > each judge favored a different one! > <<< > > "Browned tops"? Were these baked? Or does the cheese get browned just > sitting there? > > Stefan Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:56:10 -0700 From: Ruth Frey <ruthf at uidaho.edu> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"? To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com> wrote: > I have found a *ton* of recipes for cheese tarts, both sweet and savory . . . One of my favorites is Lese Fryes . . . Here's the recipe: > Lese Fryes Take fresh cheese, and pare it clene, and grinde hit in a morter small . . . > My redaction: > 16 oz. Ricotta . . . Huh! I redacted Sabina Welserin's "Genovese Tart" recipe last 12th Night -- a savory tart with spinach, "fresh cheese" (I used ricotta), aged cheese (I used parmesan), and olive oil in a pastry crust. It was very yummy, and got a good response from everyone who tried it, but our local cheesemaking expert really gave me a chewing out for using ricotta, since it turns out ricotta is a whey product and not actually a cheese at all (or so he told me, and I respect his knowledge of the subject). He did admit the dish was tasty as redacted, but we worked out that I should try some cream cheese or cottage cheese "drip strained" (like you do with yogurt for yogurt "cheese") and blended for my next attempt, so I would not offend the cheese-knowledgeable in the audience. It was actually a very fun discussion . . . :) But: I'm curious to get responses from this group -- how appropriate is ricotta as a "fresh cheese" substitute in redactions, in your opinion? Thought I might hear from some more cheese-knowledgeable folks than myself. After all, blessed are the cheesemakers. ;) :) -- Ruth Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:54:27 -0700 From: Sheila McClune <smcclune at earthlink.net> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Melca To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Patrick Levesque <patrick.levesque at elf.mcgill.ca> > Notes : Melcas : with pepper and liquamen, or salt, oil and coriander, > Melcas is, as far as I can tell, some form of curdled milk (or milk curdled > with vinegar). It may have been similar to buttermilk, but I need to > research this topic a bit more. For conveniences sake Ive used instead > cottage cheese, mixed with the appropriate ingredients. > > This is a redaction that does not satisfy me properly (mostly > because it is still unclear to me what melcas is exactly). However I have > decided to include it in the feast i order to have a different kind of > spread than the usual honey butter. Well, I've done melca, and here's the recipe I've used: Melca [Fresh Cheese (Curds)] "The best method for making what are known as curds is to pour sharp vinegar into new earhenware pots and then to put these pots on a slow fire. When the vinegar begins to boil, take it off the flame so it does not bubble over and pour milk into the pots. Place the pots in a store or some other place where they will not be disturbed. The next day you will have curds that are much better than those made with a great deal of fuss." --Bassus, Country Matters . From: Grant, Mark. Roman Cookery: Ancient Recipes for Modern Kitchens. Serif, London, 2000. ISBN 1-897959-39-7. My re-creation: 1 quart whole milk 1 cup heavy cream 1/4 cup + 1 tablespoon white wine vinegar 2 pinches salt (about 1/8 teaspoon) In a saucepan over low heat, mix milk and cream and heat to just over body temperature (105-110 degrees F). Set aside. In a heavy sauce pan, heat vinegar to boiling. Remove vinegar from heat and pour the milk into the vinegar pan. Let stand just until curds form (this should happen almost right away - if not, try stirring gently). Line a colander with heavy cheesecloth and strain the mixture through this. Tie up the four corners of the cloth and let hang for 2-4 hours to drain off the whey. Transfer cheese to serving dish and stir in salt. Makes 1 1/4 cup. Additional notes: This recipe also works well with goat milk, but the curds form will be very fine (about the size of grains of salt), so you will need very fine cloth to strain the cheese. I used a linen napkin. Balsamic vinegar is too strongly flavored for this recipe. It will make an extremely sour cheese. If possible, use a ceramic- or enamel-coated pan to make the cheese. Otherwise, the acid will leach metal into the cheese and spoil the flavor. If you don't have a ceramic- or enamel-coated pan, then remove the cheese from the pan as quickly as possible. Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 07:16:18 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Junket To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Also sprach Ariane Helou: > It sounds a little like cottage cheese to me. Junket is softer, and less distinctively curdy, than cottage cheese. More like milk-based Jello or the softest varieties of Japanese tofu in consistency. The primary difference is that junket is made to be eaten in less than, say, 12 hours after adding the rennet, and so drainage isn't really encouraged in any extreme way. So, the curds are left to drain, but are otherwise left pretty much undisturbed, and it doesn't really have a lot of little, broken curds. Ideally, it's one big, soft curd. > I'm not sure what "put it between reeds" means -- pressing it, I > suppose? Which would mean it's much more solid than cottage cheese > -- maybe more like farmer's cheese or something. The alternate > instructions to put it in cold water make me think that the curds > can either be pressed and served later, or kept cool and served > fresh the same day. Junket, it has been alleged by some, is named for the woven broomflower (jonquil) stem basket traditionally associated with draining the stuff. Putting it between reeds suggests, to me, that it goes on top of a row or mat of reeds laid out to allow drainage, then covered with more reeds to protect it from drying, bugs and dust. I don't think it's pressed, except perhaps by gravity. The instruction to put it in cold water suggests that the goal is to keep it firm, but also moist, and above all, to keep it from souring. > Since the meal I'm planning this for is at a camping event, I'd need > to make the junket anywhere from a week to a day in advance, so the > pressed version seems more appropriate. On the other hand, if it's > going to be very time-consuming or difficult, perhaps I ought to > just buy more cheeses and devote my energies to the more substantial > and central parts of the meal... which brings me back to the > question of what a finished junket looks like, anyway. :-) I'd try making a batch, maybe according to a modern recipe (you can even buy commercial junket tablets, which supply a weaker form of rennet than that used for cheeses), just to become familiar with the process before you decide what to do in the end. Me, I'd just make it at the event, in the morning, and serve it in the evening. Adamantius Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:36:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Junket To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Junket is what you get when you turn milk into curds. It is a really soft, moist curd and is set at a lower temperature and is kept pretty much intact. A general rule of thumb is the higher the heat and smaller the curd the harder it is. Brie, a very soft cheese, keeps the curd in large uncut slices, Parmesean, a very hard cheese, cuts them to about corn kernel size. In some grocery stores you can find "junket tablets" which are just a weaker form of rennet. They're usually somewhere around the canning supplies. The reed mats were used for drainage to dry the curd out enough to handle for serving. My recommendation is to use a couple of sushi mats with a layer of cheesecloth (the real stuff), linen or muslin between the junket and the mat. This is a *really* fresh cheese and won't last more than a couple of days. As Adamantius said I'd make this the morning of the event for an evening serving. Eibhlin Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:05:15 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Junket To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> I did junket of sorts for my desserts for the Ladies of the Rose in June 2002. I based mine on "A Summer Dishe" --- This recipe is given by Peter Brears in his article on "Rare Conceits"which appears in the book Banquetting Stuffe. The original appears in the Recipe Book that belonged to Margaret Savile. From my notes that I did at the time I wrote: The success of this dish lies in keeping it cold and in using enough rennet to set up the milk, cream or half & half . <> I also noted-- under Commentary and Important Notes- <> All of these dishes (there was a cream, jelly, and the junket) require that they be kept cold after making for best results. The jelly and the summer dish did not really survive well the extended period of time prior to being served. Had they been served at noon as I thought was the schedule or approximately four hours from the time of being taken out of the cold refrigerator, both would have represented the sorts of dishes they were intended to be. Neither survived the nearly 12 hours on just blue ice in 85 degree heat on June 1st without some melting. Both at the time of eventual serving at past 8 in the evening were more "sauce" than set jelly or set junket. They tasted fine, but they were not exactly as originally intended. So-- depending on how hot it is, your junket may melt! I know mine did. http://www.junketdesserts.com/ has a number of recipes and tips that might also be of interest to you. Johnnae Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:15:04 +1200 (NZST) From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spanish recipe question. To: "jenne at fiedlerfamily.net" <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>, Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> Quoting Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>: > ... I want to serve Food for Angels (sweetened curd cheese). I think I've only had Food for Angels made with ricotta, but if you wanted to make soft curd cheese, my recipe is at http://peerlesskitchen.livejournal.com/. Adele d'M <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris fresh-cheeses-msg 20 of 20